Mini 1804: Poker Mafia (Game Over)
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Multiple people have pointed out at scummy/suspicious things MM has said...what are you talking about that their is no case?In post 999, Infinity 324 wrote:MM may not have strong reads, but he definitely has strong opinions...
I agree with the part where there's no case on MM.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Bad reasoning has already been established and certainly not a scumtell...
afaik mm always thought you were scum too so yeah
And that's the extent of your argument.
I want to know why you scumread mm on d1, otherwise you clearly just made up stuff today to justify your read where you had nothing to begin with.-
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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You can read my ISO and see where I pointed out scum behavior from him.In post 1004, Infinity 324 wrote:Bad reasoning has already been established and certainly not a scumtell...
afaik mm always thought you were scum too so yeah
And that's the extent of your argument.
I want to know why you scumread mm on d1, otherwise you clearly just made up stuff today to justify your read where you had nothing to begin with.
Stop faking this dumbness. I was reading him scummy half way through day 1. What the fuck are you talking about.
He wasn't always reading me as scum either, he basically said he had a null then excused it as voting scum read, then said things that make it look like he is town reading me but still pushing me.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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You want a quote wall, you get a quote wall.
You admit it's pretty weak, I agreeIn post 258, Fire Assassin wrote:I don't really like your reaction to that. It suggested to me you either knew or think I am town already but are suggesting me to be careful and are slightly buddying me.
I would say its scummy, but it could be just nothing. Though usually I have seen town react to this in very few limited ways some are annoyed by it and don't take it serious others take it at face value, but this is a different reaction. My gut says its scummy.
I'm pretty sure this isn't even what mm was saying, I think he's saying you aren't trying to cooperate and town would try to cooperate since most players are town or something like that. Don't agree with the reasoning, but in any case it's not a reason why he's scum.In post 448, Fire Assassin wrote:How am I exactly causing problems? My inactivity before? I wasn't into this game, I didn't know the mechanics worked for it and it didn't seem active enough to warrant my attention (which is messed up in its own way) but thats the past.
I have said I am going to be more active.
I don't like this for multiple reasons.I feel like Fire only sees the game by "himself and the rest" given how he said lane was unresponsive while he hadn't answered to him, and yet (seeing as lane ninja'd me).
First off you suggest that I am not alligned when you say "himself" and then you call me not town but anything I have done not alignment indicative? I guess this refers to not liking me, but what does that have to do with me being "its in no way town"
You can't say that I seem like I see the game as just me and then everybody else and say I am not town. That doesn't make sense.
You saying I am third party? You saying I am town?
You basically said I am not group scum.
Why are there assumptions in this thread about Third parties if I may ask? is it based of just 11 players?
Yet you still have very little evidence to show thatIn post 461, Fire Assassin wrote:Its not just awkwardness and contradictions? I think you are missing the crux of my argument that they seem INFORMED.
This is basically your entire case, two posts that could easily come from town.In post 464, Fire Assassin wrote:
His approach to me when I said I am probably scum.In post 463, Infinity 324 wrote:What about mm's posts makes him look informed because I'm not seeing it. You pointed out a post where it looked like he knew you were town, why can't that just be him being naive?
His post after saying that "fire Assassin and then Everyone else" They weren't just awkward they seemed to be from the standpoint he knew I am not on anyones side.
Your mm read is bullshit, you're trying and failing to fabricate actual reasons why he's scum.-
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Quote wall of saying "no evidence" (which evidence would be feedback of some sort or what?), You then state I have a case and that its bullshit and fabricated, and I don't have any reasons. WHat?
YOU SAID I HAD A CASE. YOU CAN SAY ITS A BAD CASE BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS BULLSHIT?
I am so done with you.
Lynching MM today, shooting you tonight.
Yes, I have a gun.
You are dying.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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Are you joking infinity? People have been calling things that the mm does scummy pretty much constantly. Or at least I have. I'm surprised you forget continually acknowledging those things and calling them newbtown over and over and over and over again? And now you say there is no case on the mm? Just because your don't agree with the numerous points against the mm, doesn't mean there is no case.In post 1002, Infinity 324 wrote:What are those things exactly
Farside, I believe the mm is the proper lynch.-
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lane0168 Jack of All Trades
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivorthey (pl.)
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Don't bother to pretend to skim, you are dying tonight regardless.In post 1013, Infinity 324 wrote:Alright you're going to have to say them again, I certainly haven't seen any good reason to scumread mm. It's possible I skimmed over them cause I really just didn't see it.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.-
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Infinity 324 they (pl.)Survivor
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Shooting scum is always good idea.In post 1015, Infinity 324 wrote:It's really not a good idea to kill me tonight.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.-
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Shadow_step Mafia Scum
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Infinity's illogical defense of MM, makes me wanna lynch MM even more.
@mod can you prod..uh yourself ?ShowThe shadows betray you, because they serve me.
"Chrim and Shadow_step town MVPs. There was a point at the game I was legitimately in fear." ~Zach
"I'm mightily impressed by Shadow's ability to find town PR's, by the way. He was the one directing the first two nightkills." ~Michel-
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Wingback Goon
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Going to start from the beginning with the knowledge that FA_Q2 and BBT are town. I think my scumread on FA_Q2 affected a few other reads and I need a fresh look. I realize this took very long. I wasn't feeling up to reading forty pages straight but I'm back in the game now. These are mostly my notes but I'd appreciate responses to any direct questions. This is half the game from pages one to twenty roughly to the point where I first replaced in. I'll do the remaining half tomorrow and then consolidate all my reads in another post.
Money buys power roles. Power roles in town hands gets us closer to winning. Wanting money is null. Are you arguing that town should try to win without PRs? I bring this up because your early attack on Lane feels opportunistic, and I want you to justify this position.In post 52, Something_Smart wrote:I was "eww"-ing at Lane because money is not necessarily part of the town wincon.
While I agree that Lane is town, I have trouble following how you reached this conclusion. Is this from previous experience with Lane or just based off of his posts in thread? Can you point to specific posts or games that gave you this impression?In post 62, RedCoyote wrote: lane strikes me as the impulsive type. I don't get the feeling that his bet was part of a gambit, but it's something to still consider going forward.
Nearly everything about Infinity's Post 63 reads town. The callout of MM's post as forced, agreeing with RedCoyote about Lane (I find Infinity's townread on Lane more natural than RedCoyote's because it fits with the rest of Infinity's posts and scumhunting style where he often tries to avoid the "obvious" traps and townreads people for what can be considered traditionally scummy moves), and his readslist at the end. I can see why he's scumreading MM, townreading Lane, has gut townreads on Persivul and MoI, but seems conflicted on RedCoyote.
How will seeing the hands affect your read on Lane? If you think he's impulsive and just making a splash, why does his hand matter? He could just be impulsively making a bluff (which is what I think actually happened).In post 106, RedCoyote wrote:I don't see lane's bet as scummy. That said, once we see the hands, I may feel differently.
In post 106, RedCoyote wrote:The question everyone has to ask themselves, if you were townMM, would you have called scumlane? If so, why didn't you? If not, why would townMM do this?
This is a fairly obvious answer so why ask the question in the first place? It does seem like you wanted to frame the issue in a way that portrayed MM as scum especially given you voted him. It reads like part of a case rather than a neutral question which doesn't match up to your later claim that you were just begging consideration for a point of view.In post 114, RedCoyote wrote:The proper answer here is, "I would've called, but my hand was poor".
Did you follow up with this? If so, what games did you read and what is your analysis?In post 120, Something_Smart wrote:I rely a lot on meta...I liked 91 and 92, but 93 is weak at best. Another player I'll have to meta.
This doesn't make sense. Others have pointed out that this doesn't make sense. If your plan was to stop scum from transferring money to each other, why not wait to see who called Lane's hand? You never answer this question and dance around the issue. For instance, in your response to Qubixes in Post 126, you go off on a tangent about how you wanted everyone else to spare their money. Why would you want that? You'd want scum to call. If town put their money in, you get it which is good since from your POV, you would know that you are town. It doesn't matter if you miscalculated the price of the abilities as it's more a question of scum revealing themselves by calling. Why didn't you wait for that to happen?In post 88, The MM wrote:I called to break that, as I am quite confident in my hand.
So, because you think no one is going to follow you if you just say "X is scum," you decided that a better way to get followed is to say "X is null with very, very slight scumpoints?" It sounds like you think you made a mistake having a readslist full of nulls, and now you are scrambling to explain it away.In post 126, The MM wrote:Going gung-ho is a bad idea. Who is going to follow if I just say "X is scum"? No one.
Qubixes' followup in Post 139 reads town and is exactly the line I wanted to pursue and I also liked the original push in Post 98. I liked Infinity's Post 135, particularly the part about assuming that RedCoyote was townreading Lane and then backtracking/saying it's dependent on Lane's hand. Lane has been town in pretty much every post so far and I doubt I need to bring them all up and spell it out. I will point out that Post 183 nails all my issues with MM on the head.
In what way was MM open about his actions and stances? I don't understand your townread on MM at all.In post 158, Infinity 324 wrote:I felt like mm has been rather open about his actions and stances and has definitely not tried to avoid engagement.
So you agree that money going into the hands of one townie isn't necessarily bad. I thought the entire reason you chose not to wait was because you didn't want townies to put their money in the pot and you just wanted to snag scum-Lane's money. This doesn't compute.In post 174, The MM wrote:I don't consider money going to the hands of one townie bad per se
Earlier you used this as a reason to call Lane scum when he was under pressure. Now that the wagon dissipated, you backtracked and you are calling him town.In post 174, The MM wrote:Thinking about it, why would scum voluntarily forfeit their money like that? If lane was scum, he'd have just screwed himself over, and massively.
Being afraid of the possibility of someone being scum because you don't know their scumplay (Post 187) seems like a town thought process from MM though. I've wondered that as town myself in some games.
I don't like the entirety of Something_Smart's Post 188. It looks like he's spraying everyone with questions without taking any sort of stances himself. Why ask infinity about his townread on Persivul? Are you scumreading one of them? The questions to several others are also oddly-phrased (asking people whether they understood others) and loaded which makes me uneasy. It's a mild suspicion mitigated by the fact that I think at least a part of that is playstyle-based. I'd be interested in seeing if there was any follow-up here and if so, what conclusions he drew.
I find it hard to believe that the only "legit" read you have eight pages into the game is the guy that's defended you several times.In post 195, The MM wrote:As far as reads go, I don't really have legit reads. Infinity looks pretty town to me, but once again I don't wanna trust myself too much on him.
Wait. Your initial read on Lane was that he was impulsive, but you took care to say that you weren't townreading him. You also said "In post 260, RedCoyote wrote:As previously stated, Persivul would rank as my top townread at this time. At this point, lane would be followed shortly thereafter.I don't see lane's bet as scummy. That said, once we see the hands, I may feel differently.So, we saw the hands, lane had a terrible one, and your reaction is to upgrade him to second strongest townread? How did that happen?
MM is one of my suspects and one thing I wanted to check on based on the newest posts that I've looked through was why you were townreading him. Nothing about his posts looked town (see this wall for some of my issues with his play), and I can't follow your townread here in the slightest. I understood why you were scumreading FA_Q2 and RedCoyote. I understand why you were townreading Lane and at some point, Qubixes because I've reached largely similar conclusions. This one read has been a complete mystery. Qubixes's Post 340 is a good case too and one of the reasons I have a townread on that slot.In post 285, Infinity 324 wrote:About mm, I think he's been less careful (the inconsistencies people mention are an example of this) than noob scum would be
Your read on MoI was actually pretty ambiguous. You said things like "In post 302, RedCoyote wrote:I maintain, apparently to [MoI's] chagrin, that I don't find [MoI] particularly scummy at this timeYour incriminatory rhetoric is not appreciated" and "I'm beginning to notice a pattern of you "forgetting" or "not paying attention" to events or activities that should would concern town-aligned players attempting to scumhunt honestly" in Post 260 which suggest that you suspect him. What was your read on MoI based on all the posts he made and what's your read on Farside now? I'm still catching up so if you've already provided a read on Farside, you can disregard the second question.
Fire Assasin's posts on pages 18 and 19 point fairly strongly to town. The MM's Post 446 accusing Fire of "stirring things up" was terrible and looks like he was taking advantage of Fire's abrasive personality. While his reasons for scumreading MM are different from mine, his push reads genuine. His plan for gaming the system to bulletproof our strongest townread also comes from a town motivation since he's wanting it to be on my slot which I know is town, and not as an excuse to protect himself although I disagree with it for the reasons I laid out before.
Infinity didn't include your biggest scumread at that time (MM) so why are you saying that his list of six scumreads is almost certainly correct?In post 485, RedCoyote wrote:If it's the former, that's really unhelpful (although almost certainly correct)
This is a ridiculous stretch. I clicked those links expecting BBT to have taken some sort of stance on MM but after clicking on them, I see completely generic posts by BBT where he never mentioned MM at all. I suppose on some level you could interpret BBT naked voting infinity as him taking a stand against the leading wagon on MM but it seems much more likely that he's barely paying attention to the game. It reads like you are trying to find an excuse to push BBT. Also, the first link where he says "any chance of a real wagon developing" was posted when he was voting MM so I'm not following how this advances your argument that BBT was uncomfortable about an MM wagon and later opportunistically put him at L-1.In post 492, RedCoyote wrote:You're the same player that expressed reservations about the MM wagon just a couple of days ago (see: 294 and 384).
I've been wondering about an MM and RedCoyote team because those were my two scumreads independently but the early push on MM by RC made me lean towards them not being partnered together. However, this push away from MM alleviates those concerns and I don't think MM/RC are mutually exclusive. Post 497 definitely plays up his involvement in the MM wagon.
So, that's the end of page twenty which is about half the game. I'll stop here, pick up the other half tomorrow and then summarize my final reads in a more concise post. If you need anything elaborated on, let me know.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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No he doesn't.In post 999, Infinity 324 wrote:MM may not have strong reads, but he definitely has strong opinions...
I agree with the part where there's no case on MM.
His opponent ions are weak as shit.
"Fire is scum because he called me scum" "farside is scum because she scares me as scum"
Ignoring is one past game played on this site from you is horse shit.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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farside22 Mafia Mum
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Non existent and in need of a replacement.In post 1000, Infinity 324 wrote:farside, what do you think of shadow?
Most likely.In post 1011, lane0168 wrote:
Are you joking infinity? People have been calling things that the mm does scummy pretty much constantly. Or at least I have. I'm surprised you forget continually acknowledging those things and calling them newbtown over and over and over and over again? And now you say there is no case on the mm? Just because your don't agree with the numerous points against the mm, doesn't mean there is no case.In post 1002, Infinity 324 wrote:What are those things exactly
Farside, I believe the mm is the proper lynch.
As I said I'm shaking at those I'm reading scummy currently.
While I'm thinking I had this moment last night where I was thinking about rc and wondered if he might be 3rd party.
Reading wingback views I may nix that but for now I'm staying onto infinty for a bit here.Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.-
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Wingback Goon
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The MM Goon
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Oh, given what I know, I can take guesses as to why I'm still alive with Lane's money free for use, thank you very much Mr. NoonehastherighttothinkthingsIdont.In post 995, Fire Assassin wrote:
No, no, no, no.In post 970, The MM wrote:I'm folding because I have no interest in tossing the little that remains of my money to the first lucjy guy, that's pretty much that. Antes will probably eat at the rest of my wallet like popcorn but it barely matters at this point.
Lynching me is exactly what scum want you to do; it's the reason they left me alive in the first place since I wasn't BP. Now consider why I was left alive.
Possibly seeing me and farside as scum is kinda dumb imo, considering I've said I'm kinda scared of scum!farside, maybe you were too busy drowning in your own made-up scumtells on me to notice.
Lynching me is wasting the Tracker shot. This is complete and utter town sabotage, since the Tracker shot isn't given to anyone. This entire plan is dumbnut.
You can't explain why scum left you alive, you can let others speculate, but you can't say "I am a mislynch bait" that makes it all null. Self awareness of the situation can be more scummy than town, if you understand you are likely lynch target that isn't more scummy I don't think, but its definitely not points in your favor.
And we all wanted you to fold anyways, because you are a scum suspect, why would we want you to win?
Also, why are you attacking you and farside as alignment but not any of my others, why does that sound more ridiculous beyond "I am scared of scum farside!" cause that doesn't sound like a actual reason for you two not being aligned?
Then you call my scumtells "fake", listen if I am faking it, I am scum, right?
WHy do i get sense of you keep going back and forth between wanting to call me town and wanting to call me just hard scum but don't want to commit.
It's not "everyone". You and your cronies, a minority of vocal douchebags, wanted me to fold. Difference. I did it out of self-interest anyway. As for why I "should" have won, well do the words "Bulletproof Tracker" sound powerful enough for you?
Also, I was scared of scum!farside because you (as well as a bunch of other people) are just licking her feet and guess what? She's antagonizing me too. It's worth a scumread. Keep in mind, y'all were scumreading Magna, but now farside has replaced it's like she's town regardless of slot. Disgusting.
I don't exactly recall where I called your reads fake, but I think my scumread on you is set in stone. The more I tried to play like you're town, the more you make me scumread you. I read you as scum for life, and so until the game proves me wrong, but one thing's for sure, you won't.
This sounds like something scum would say. Why would they kill Infinity? Oh yeah, to push for my mislynch some more, since Infinity's the only guy with the right idea on me.In post 1014, Fire Assassin wrote:
Don't bother to pretend to skim, you are dying tonight regardless.In post 1013, Infinity 324 wrote:Alright you're going to have to say them again, I certainly haven't seen any good reason to scumread mm. It's possible I skimmed over them cause I really just didn't see it.
Shooting scum? With what? You can't even. Now you're just being a retard.In post 1016, Fire Assassin wrote:
Shooting scum is always good idea.In post 1015, Infinity 324 wrote:It's really not a good idea to kill me tonight.
Discrediting me for my past game as town? Yeah right, great idea. This is bullshit. Scumflag for the pointless-ass shade casting.farside22 wrote:
No he doesn't.In post 999, Infinity 324 wrote:MM may not have strong reads, but he definitely has strong opinions...
I agree with the part where there's no case on MM.
His opponent ions are weak as shit.
"Fire is scum because he called me scum" "farside is scum because she scares me as scum"
Ignoring is one past game played on this site from you is horse shit.Waiting for the day I can come back and mod games.-
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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Few things here:In post 1022, The MM wrote:Also, I was scared of scum!farside because you (as well as a bunch of other people) are just licking her feet and guess what? She's antagonizing me too. It's worth a scumread. Keep in mind, y'all were scumreading Magna, but now farside has replaced it's like she's town regardless of slot. Disgusting.
I don't exactly recall where I called your reads fake, but I think my scumread on you is set in stone. The more I tried to play like you're town, the more you make me scumread you. I read you as scum for life, and so until the game proves me wrong, but one thing's for sure, you won't.
1) When has anyone been licking Farside boots and
2) Where has anyone called her strong town? or even massively switched reads on the slot?
I know I have her as weak town at best right now and thats a recent development.
Your scumread is "set in stone"? Okay. Good work.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.-
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Fire Assassin Mafia Scum
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I am a vigilante. Do you think the only power roles town has are hte ones from these poker matches? Ha, thats funny.In post 1022, The MM wrote:Shooting scum? With what? You can't even. Now you're just being a retard.Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.
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