STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

vote: grapes

Some pretty cool mechanics for this game compared to last.
I can also confirmed myself as town but I need players to target me tonight to do so.

Oh on top of that I'm in a

masonry with firebringer

I'm sure doubters with be a plenty.

I am in a masonry with SirCakez

so idk how reliable your claim is o.o

~Bee

I'M IN A MASONRY WITH...umm...whoever rolled Lapis Lazuli, cuz she's cool and wrecked Jaspar like four times or something.

Okay, not really.

In all seriousness, the double mason claims are possible I guess, but, well...let's just say it's incredibly implausible that anyone would ever claim that in the functional pre-game.

I will ally with Obi-Wan Kenobi, A50, SirCakez, or shiro with no conditions.

I will ally with mastin2, Firebringer, Yume, TWIE or randomidget if they promise to actively participate in our alliance and TALK WITH ME about the game.

-Cerb

pedit: oh yes. Flavor claiming is basically really really really dumb.

[Reasonably Rational]

I will ally with mastin2, Firebringer, Yume, TWIE or randomidget if they promise to actively participate in our alliance and

TALK WITH ME about the game.

You had me until that part.

That's why I included it. I <3 you FB, but I get frustrated when people I'm in a neighborhood with aren't constantly posting and discussing the game with me. Feels like we're wasting the opportunity, ya know?

it's a stop-motion adventure story set in ancient Japan. it's by Laika, the studio that animated Coraline, Paranorman, the Box Trolls, and some unknown-to-me part of Corpse Bride.

edit: Rational, would you ally with me? i'm aware you've known of my existence for all of an hour.

I really wanna see Kubo. Like, maybe I'll go do that this morning actually. Gotta check show times.

And umm. Let me hear back from those I mentioned first?

i suggest obi-wan and reasonably ally us so we can see how deep this suit is

~lycan

You want us to both ally you lycan? We can only ally one slot? Are you saying you can organize a triple alliance, or displaying ignorance of the allying mechanics?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

it's a stop-motion adventure story set in ancient Japan. it's by Laika, the studio that animated Coraline, Paranorman, the Box Trolls, and some unknown-to-me part of Corpse Bride.

edit: Rational, would you ally with me? i'm aware you've known of my existence for all of an hour.

Also, are you an alt? If not, why me?

Same question goes to kraskaesque: I don't believe I have any experience with you, so why me?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Straight up.

If your hood's not 100 pages long you're not doing it right.

Seeing grapes reminds me:

Claim all negative utility at this time please and thank you. Miller/ascetic/pgo etc. Claiming such later any time past this prequel phase will result in your lynch for being anti-town and probably lying scum trying to weasel out of some sort of guilty.

-Cerb

pedit: Not Chara, did you skim the Reasonably Rational hydra from the first SU?

[Reasonably Rational]

You want us to both ally you lycan? We can only ally one slot? Are you saying you can organize a triple alliance, or displaying ignorance of the allying mechanics?

-Cerb

in season finales we could! i'm thinking long term here, long term!

~lycan

Well, sure...but we sorta need to figure out our alliances for *today* right now.

-Cerb

pedit: Hi grapes! I was sad I didn't see you in any other games after SU! How have you been?

[Reasonably Rational]

Rational: no, i didn't. you're referring to your private topic between Drixx and Cerberus, yes?

grapes: fantastic.

Yep, I'm referring to the PT between drixx and myself.

-Cerb

pedit: FB: Hmm. Not so much. War Dogs was decent, but nothing special. Suicide Squad was an action movie masquerading as a superhero movie. Those are the only films that are out right now which I've seen.

peditx2: grapes: Dude. Go watch the show. Once I got the pm from Varsoon about pre-ins, I mmediately went and watched Season 3 to make sure I was totally caught up. It's still good!

[Reasonably Rational]

why's rr scum creature?

idk I just scrolled to the last post.

The epitome of RVS behavior right here.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cerb, we are dirty no good thieves, stealing all the good ideas.

~VeggieWoman

If this is supposed to be a reference or a crumb or something, at first glance I 100% do not understand it. I'll think about it though.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

But..don't try anymore Titus. We both know you're fairly terrible at crumbs, and I'd rather remain ignorant than have you make it too obvious.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. Wait.

I just got it.

Understood.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Flavor, what do I know about flavor Cerby. You just asked to claim negative utility so I claimed that I copy people because I struggle to come up with my own ideas.

Fire, you know better than to ask about my role. *smacks you*

~VeggieWoman

At least you copy from people who have good ideas?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

SC, Obi-Wan: Neither of you responded to my very selective ally invitation.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cerby, I want to talk it over. Very in favor though. If it was just me, you would have me.

@Cerby - We want to ally with you. That was fast lol.

Sweet. I'm sorta doing all this without Drixx's approval right now since he hasn't responded to me since the game start, but I'm sure he'll agree with me about this.

*shrug* You oughta know by now I perceive even questions about possible crumbs as a good idea as role fishing.

Not going to get in a meta debate here, but this is rubbish.

OK. Enjoy our perpetual disagreement and being townread.

Details on the reasoning behind the townread.

what should i put on this omelet....

Hmmmm

You shouldn't have an omelette. Eggs are disgusting.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Not Chara: I'm gonna go see Kubo in an hour for $5 at a local theater that has super cheap first showings. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what should i put on this omelet....

Hmmmm

Not Onions for today. Go mild.

Onions are also disgusting.

The BLT sounds delicious though. Everyone should listen to Not Chara about food.

Valid point about scum fire not being as whiny etc. I mean, he's not as vocal in thread period in my experience.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@OWK - You guys submitted alliance for us already, yeah?

Also @Titus in specific - Why would you drop that crumb? Varsoon

specifically

warned us about flavor and even I figured out that crumb with a little help from Cerb to jog my memory. Meh... don't answer until we get our alliance PT but ... bleh.

Also I noticed already someone giving Yume a hard time, so I'm just going to say this once: Varsoon tends to the lenient as a moderator. If I see any more harassment of specific players, I'll make it my mission to get the harassing player PLd and will do so for as long as I remain ticked off about it, which could be the next year or so of games that we end up in. You've been warned. Consider me the vigilante of "don't be a fucking asshole to other people" justice.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I wanted to ally with you Yume, but OWK responded first.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Is there anyone who wants to ally with me, or not?

We need to sort out Titus first, imo and they agreed first. Want to ally the 2nd day? We will expect you to talk about the game with us, and we talk a LOT about stuff, but I'm down if you are.

~Drixx

P-Edit: Cerb beat me to it.

[Reasonably Rational]

Town read on Chara

Why would you claim that farside
Facepalm
P-edit: no we can't lynch yet silly Bee

I have reasons.
Sorry not explaining what they are.
You want to ally with me we can talk there.

I believe Sir Cakez and obi claim.
Kraska makes me feel like gross. I don't like the post 76 reach out.
Hard to explain why.

Vote: kraska

Anyone thinking they will be alive end game is never town.
Mmmm grapes maybe town.
Sir Cakez goes into town pile.
MeMenno goes into scum pile.

Ahhhh Fb you know I love you, we can be in game Mason if you want.

I'd ally with yume, skybird or Fox I like the girl power.

Farside just said she'd ally with you Yume.

FB: That's how Drixx works. He's not an asshole until someone else is an asshole, and then once they are, he's an unbearable asshole.

Yume: Please don't waste something on FB for THAT reason at least. If you think he's scum, sure, but otherwise...don't do it yo.

Farside: you mentioned earlier that I was scum for not including you in my list of people to ally with. Was that a legitimate read, or a joke? If legitimate, please elaborate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Town read on Chara

Why would you claim that farside
Facepalm
P-edit: no we can't lynch yet silly Bee

I have reasons.
Sorry not explaining what they are.
You want to ally with me we can talk there.

I believe Sir Cakez and obi claim.
Kraska makes me feel like gross. I don't like the post 76 reach out.
Hard to explain why.

Vote: kraska

Anyone thinking they will be alive end game is never town.
Mmmm grapes maybe town.
Sir Cakez goes into town pile.
MeMenno goes into scum pile.

Ahhhh Fb you know I love you, we can be in game Mason if you want.

I'd ally with yume, skybird or Fox I like the girl power.

Farside just said she'd ally with you Yume.

FB: That's how Drixx works. He's not an asshole until someone else is an asshole, and then once they are, he's an unbearable asshole.

Yume: Please don't waste something on FB for THAT reason at least. If you think he's scum, sure, but otherwise...don't do it yo.

Farside: you mentioned earlier that I was scum for not including you in my list of people to ally with. Was that a legitimate read, or a joke? If legitimate, please elaborate.

-Cerb

More serious.
We worked well game 1, even though you didn't listen to me about certain player there
So I'm curious why you wouldn't ally with me.

I just went through the playerlist and the people in the first set are ones who I know have A LOT to say, so PT's with them will be active, and who I feel fairly confident in my ability to establish an accurate read on, because I've played with them as both alignments. You have things to say, but we haven't played together in a bit, i don't believe, and I just don't have the same level of confidence in my ability to read you.

The people in the second list are all people who DON'T talk much, who I would very much like to get in the head of as early as possible in the game so I can identify if they're just being lurky mislynch bait, or scum trying to avoid attention by sticking to a meta which makes it so nobody has any reason to care that they're inactive.

-Cerb

pedit: They didn't claim to survive till end game, but they are planning for their survival through till the first Season Finale at least, which is mid game.

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah, except that Titus' hydra is on that list, and Titus won't divulge info that easily, and I'd doubt she'll let her hydra partner do so.

Titus is an open book to people she trusts.

ROFL. In what universe has Titus

ever

trusted me, unless she was scum and knew I wasn't (Steven Universe)? Titus has literally had mountains of evidence that I am town (even including a cop clear once) across dozens of games, and still insisted on scumspecting me. There's literally no universe where anyone sane actually would suggest Titus would trust me (and therefore trust us) without an absurd amount of good reason to do so. And you know that.

You got some 'splainin to do firebringer.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Not exactly familiar with you and titus history.

Bullshit. Even if you didn't have experience with Titus and us in games (which you do), you're not a mind reader and you don't have the first idea why we decided who we wanted to ally apart from what Cerb said about it, and given that our conversation about who to ally and why we want to sort certain people goes way deeper than what he said, you can sod off.

And before you sass me back, go read our hydra PT from the first Steven Universe game. We talk about

everything

in depth. There's a pretty fucking obvious reason why we want to ally with Titus right away (and I expect she has basically the same reasoning for agreeing so quickly). There's also a really obvious reason why Cerb and I both posted that we wanted to ally with Yume next.

Do your homework or de-ass your head. Preferably both.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Stop rolefishing Mastin people. Varsoon could not possibly have made it more clear than he did that flavor claiming is a bad thing. Let me quote him for the people who didn't read the freaking mechanics:

As a final note, all scum have guaranteed safe-claims and roles that fit the flavor of these fake-claims. Do not try to flavor-game this setup.
Scum all have had their flavor crafted before I crafted any of the town roles--I have built this setup around scum having effective, believable safe-claims.
Flavor-claims are not anywhere near the sort of town-clear that you might expect from other games.
Furthermore,

I have given scum measures to punish players who are attempting to flavor-game the setup. Claim flavor at your own risk.

We are here to play mafia rendered under the flavor of Steven Universe--I will have no pity for anyone who takes the flavor as a means to attempt to outguess the moderator.

I added emphasis. Scum has the ability to hurt us for flavor claiming and trying to game the game that way.

The

ONLY

thing that people should claim at this point is negative utility. Anything else is just fucking stupid; plain and simple.

So seriously ... stop fucking fishing for shit people.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

So do you think I am making shit up or not? Cause it sounds like your trying to convince me that I don't know what I am talking about but at same time you ignore every other part of my reasoning for scum reading you.

Like titus was but one person you said you want to ally with, the rest still don't make sense even if you hand wave that.

I think you're trying to look like you are town trying to figure things out. The problem is it was clumsy and transparent. You didn't have any "reasoning" (that word means something, and not what you think it does apparently). You just made up some shit and threw it to see if it would stick. You don't know fuck all about our reasons for who we want to ally with. I frankly don't give a shit if it's obvious to you or not why we picked who we did. I only addressed the Titus hydra because you damn well know that Titus

always

scum reads me and it was the most stupid thing I've ever seen you say when you suggested that she would just vomit out information to us. It was literally so fucking stupid I laughed out loud when I read you suggesting it.

Seriously ... take your head out of the dark smelly place you currently have it lodged. We've got a mission (See: Steven Universe) and I personally am not going to put up with silly bullshit this game. (See: Steven Universe where we busted our ass and got town to 100% Win probability but a townie (who I'm not going to name and embarass because I like them) got selfish and blew it up and scum ended up getting the win. That shit ain't happening again).

If your goal was to get my attention, you succeeded.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Stop rolefishing Mastin people. Varsoon could not possibly have made it more clear than he did that flavor claiming is a bad thing. Let me quote him for the people who didn't read the freaking mechanics:

As a final note, all scum have guaranteed safe-claims and roles that fit the flavor of these fake-claims. Do not try to flavor-game this setup.
Scum all have had their flavor crafted before I crafted any of the town roles--I have built this setup around scum having effective, believable safe-claims.
Flavor-claims are not anywhere near the sort of town-clear that you might expect from other games.
Furthermore,

I have given scum measures to punish players who are attempting to flavor-game the setup. Claim flavor at your own risk.

We are here to play mafia rendered under the flavor of Steven Universe--I will have no pity for anyone who takes the flavor as a means to attempt to outguess the moderator.

I added emphasis. Scum has the ability to hurt us for flavor claiming and trying to game the game that way.

The

ONLY

thing that people should claim at this point is negative utility. Anything else is just fucking stupid; plain and simple.

So seriously ... stop fucking fishing for shit people.

~D

what 'people' are you referring to? only one other person mentioned mastin's claim, and while i'm with you on that one, what i wanted was for mastin to make it clear if what she had was negative utility or not. which is what you've just said players should claim here.

It read to me like you wanted flavor info from Mastin. When Varsoon explicitly says that scum have measures to punish us for trying to solve the game by flavor and specifically warns us to claim at our own peril ... that is something to pay attention to. If you think I'm being overly aggressive, just be happy it's me and not Cerb. It drives him bonkers how much people assume about their roles and don't ask for clarification and especially drives him crazy when people don't read the game setup info and mechanics carefully. He would be considerably harsher than I'm being about it.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Note to self: Mastin can't read players.

Mastin has a proven record of being way above average at reading people. Sorry that she pegged you as scum, but so far you kind of look like scum trying to get town read. If you're not, maybe that should tell you something and you should adjust.

I don't see anyone fishing.

Probably because of where you're currently keeping your head?

Seriously ... take your head out of the dark smelly place you currently have it lodged.

lol where is my head lodged?
This is too funny.

Your lower colon (a.k.a. rectum). Take it out and you'll see clearly

there is... a lot of anger in Drixx.

what you've said about Firebringer indicates scum, but you're still talking directly to them. is Firebringer scum or misguided town, which is it?

Oh no. I'm not in the least bit angry. I'm just being snarky. If I should happen to get angry, it would be really unpleasant. That's not likely to happen this game though, as I'm not on steroids and it takes a pretty

considerable

amount of provocation to make me actually angry. I'm being very snarky with Firebringer because I've grown tired of his schtick. He trolls a lot and frequently contributes little to nothing to games. I'm hoping my approach will encourage him to do something useful.

The posts are coming faster than I can keep up with at the moment, but I've got conflicting reads on FB as of right now. It's irrational to pretend to know someone's motives and so when I evaluate his "reasons" for throwing a scum read on us, and then his post where he made a big show about how he wasn't going to form reads in the pre-game but he has multiple scum reads ... it looks like an intentional performance to me. But it's also

really

clumsy, so it's either really bad scum play or he's trolling again. It's a big game and it will sort itself out.

Firebringer, as town, is basically always misguided. At this point, I've concluded that it's an intentional play style choice on his part. He trolls and contributes little to nothing and ends up in the end game unless he gets lynched because why would scum kill a townie behaving that way?

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

mastin: if you're a miller, you should at least claim that.

i'm against flavour claims and ability claims, but any negative-utilities should be on the table in plain terms, without hinting at one's flavour role.

Drixx, this was the post. i'm not sure how you misinterpreted my intent from this. i couldn't have been more clear.

Thank you for going way out of your way to make it really clear you weren't asking Mastin to claim more ... by quoting yourself telling mastin specifically to claim whether miller or not and also telling mastin to claim neg utility in plain terms.

The question is should I give you the benefit of the doubt or not?

You see: Steven Universe and Steven Universe Prequel and pretty much all of the Varsoon games based upon actual shows/games have strong flavor reasons for the abilities and roles people are assigned. So asking Mastin to explain her negative role utility "in plain terms" actually

IS

fishing for flavor in a Varsoon game. It's really enough that she told us there's neg utility with her role and it's probably too much that she made such a big deal about wanting to say more.

there is... a lot of anger in Drixx.

what you've said about Firebringer indicates scum, but you're still talking directly to them. is Firebringer scum or misguided town, which is it?

This is my confusion too, he says I am making it up and trying to look town but then suggests that I am town? Very confused.

I always account for the possibility that my scum reads are wrong; the very best scum hunters on site are barely better than random chance, and I'm not among the very best scum hunters on site. Until I'm

sure

that someone is scum, they get treated like they might be town. This is super easily confirmable by checking my meta. One

really good

example is my interaction with Titus in Space Dandy 2. I was giving her benefit of the doubt comments even when mod clarification made it look like she was caught and mod confirmed as lying.

Firebringer, as town, is basically always misguided. At this point, I've concluded that it's an intentional play style choice on his part. He trolls and contributes little to nothing and ends up in the end game unless he gets lynched because why would scum kill a townie behaving that way?

This going to be how you treat me all game?

I hope not. I'm trying to knock you out of your comfort rut and see how you do if you aren't left to troll and lurk.

Mastin has a proven record of being way above average at reading people. Sorry that she pegged you as scum, but so far you kind of look like scum trying to get town read. If you're not, maybe that should tell you something and you should adjust.

Ummm she read beginning first page little comments that mean nothing as alignment indicative, you serious?

Early game stuff, even from the first page, solves games all the time. I'm serious and Mastin is serious. I've lost count of the times I'm in the dead thread watching as a town squanders a win because none of the living town go check the early stuff and look at it through the lense of accumulated knowledge.


~D

[Reasonably Rational]

So who would like to ally with me?

I would be okay with that engagement

I'm up for this if you are still willing.

Too late, farside and I are allied and next day I am planning alliance with RR.

yeah, I saw that as I caught up. maybe day three then?

If there's not some strong reason to do otherwise, sure. You understand why we want to sort Titus and Yume first yeah?


@Farside - I just realized I didn't say anything to your earlier question. You remember what happened in original SU right? Like ... we were able to figure out and be sure you were town when the whole freaking game was sure you were scum. You're not a priority for us to sort right away. You are a solid person to ally with later if we both survive that long and once we have enough to go on to read you. We worked great together in original SU, but that was late mid-game. We're more focused on figuring out slots that are harder for us to figure out early on. Nothing personal.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin has a proven record of being way above average at reading people. Sorry that she pegged you as scum, but so far you kind of look like scum trying to get town read. If you're not, maybe that should tell you something and you should adjust.

Hey, Cerb. I know this is a Drixx post, he can answer it too, it's applicable both ways, but Cerb knows this better overall.

Question time.

Why do you say this about Firebringer, who I noted as "scum?", with a question mark for good reason...

...While ignoring the one and only player I had marked as unambiguously, without any interrogation-mark attached, "scum."?

That is, why are you saying this about a read I'm not sure of...

...While not paying attention to the much, much, MUCH more notworthy read I have on Not Chara?

And!
Furthermore.

You're a smart guy and I can't hold context worth a damn. So if you haven't already figured this out, you would soon enough.
You know about my accuracy reading you.

And yet, I'm

not

townreading you.

Why am I not townreading you?
It's certainly not a question of quantity! You're among the highest post counts in the game. Why is it that the quality of those posts has not given me the impression you're town?
Why is it that you look like scum?

And furthermore! Why is it that Not Chara looks like the most obvious scumbuddy of yours in all of time?

Most of the posts are from me, I think, and I'm pretty sure an objective analysis of your early reads on me will show that you're not that good at reading me. Very similar to Titus on that front, in fact.

And I was having an ongoing conversation with Firebringer and you dumped a read in which he tried to handwave away, and I responded by pointing out that, in general, you are above average. Since I had a pretty lengthy back and forth primarily with Firebringer going on for the last couple hours, why did you expect me to stop and comment on every read you made? You didn't ask my/our opinion so therefore you should have no reason to expect it so therefore you are just using it as a pretense to see how we react.

I'm pretty sure you've played with us as RR before. You know how we approach things. Stop being silly.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

I hope not. I'm trying to knock you out of your comfort rut and see how you do if you aren't left to troll and lurk.

How's that working so far?

Too soon to tell. Ask again later.

mastin: if you're a miller, you should at least claim that.

i'm against flavour claims and ability claims, but any negative-utilities should be on the table in plain terms, without hinting at one's flavour role.

Drixx, this was the post. i'm not sure how you misinterpreted my intent from this. i couldn't have been more clear.

Thank you for going way out of your way to make it really clear you weren't asking Mastin to claim more ... by quoting yourself telling mastin specifically to claim whether miller or not and also telling mastin to claim neg utility in plain terms.

The question is should I give you the benefit of the doubt or not?

You see: Steven Universe and Steven Universe Prequel and pretty much all of the Varsoon games based upon actual shows/games have strong flavor reasons for the abilities and roles people are assigned. So asking Mastin to explain her negative role utility "in plain terms" actually

IS

fishing for flavor in a Varsoon game. It's really enough that she told us there's neg utility with her role and it's probably too much that she made such a big deal about wanting to say more.

there is... a lot of anger in Drixx.

what you've said about Firebringer indicates scum, but you're still talking directly to them. is Firebringer scum or misguided town, which is it?

This is my confusion too, he says I am making it up and trying to look town but then suggests that I am town? Very confused.

I always account for the possibility that my scum reads are wrong; the very best scum hunters on site are barely better than random chance, and I'm not among the very best scum hunters on site. Until I'm

sure

that someone is scum, they get treated like they might be town. This is super easily confirmable by checking my meta. One

really good

example is my interaction with Titus in Space Dandy 2. I was giving her benefit of the doubt comments even when mod clarification made it look like she was caught and mod confirmed as lying.

Firebringer, as town, is basically always misguided. At this point, I've concluded that it's an intentional play style choice on his part. He trolls and contributes little to nothing and ends up in the end game unless he gets lynched because why would scum kill a townie behaving that way?

This going to be how you treat me all game?

I hope not. I'm trying to knock you out of your comfort rut and see how you do if you aren't left to troll and lurk.

Mastin has a proven record of being way above average at reading people. Sorry that she pegged you as scum, but so far you kind of look like scum trying to get town read. If you're not, maybe that should tell you something and you should adjust.

Ummm she read beginning first page little comments that mean nothing as alignment indicative, you serious?

Early game stuff, even from the first page, solves games all the time. I'm serious and Mastin is serious. I've lost count of the times I'm in the dead thread watching as a town squanders a win because none of the living town go check the early stuff and look at it through the lense of accumulated knowledge.


~D

My bullshit meter went through the roof on the last bit

You realize you can go look at games and see this happen over and over again. There's a rule which prohibits me from giving you the best example that is popping into my head. Others who play a lot of games will attest to what I'm saying: early posts matter and they often are a gold mine in the mid and late game.

In fact ... I've got a great example. In SMITE I replaced into a slot which had said certain things really early in the game. I ended up pulling out the win in that game against 2 town and an SK on the last day, but I only even go to the last day because town players didn't go look at the early posts made by my predecessor,

even though I told them exactly where to look

. Every post matters.

[Reasonably Rational]

Rational: i don't like this response. to Firebringer, it's "mastin has called you scum, and she is a good scumhunter" but when it's about you, it's "you're not that good at reading me".

and 'stop being silly'? this feels like an attempt to win over mastin. no paranoia at all?

and you're saying you shouldn't have been expected to comment on every read mastin makes, but you didn't mention me at all, despite that being the main crux of mastin's point.

Titus has been getting better and better at reading scum lately, but still reads me wrong. She'll openly admit it (and a small voice says that if she doesn't, I can link you to literally a dozen or more games). Good scum hunters can be wrong about some people due to style. In particular, Cerb and I both don't really care about being town read. We work on solving the game and let people figure out we're town on their own schedule.

As for talking about

you

, we would have to be scum to be scum partners with you, so Mastin's suggestion that we looked like scum partners wasn't even worth responding to. The fact that it caught your attention does make me wonder about YOU though.

And ummm ... we're paranoid about everyone. Mastin was Connie in Steven Universe with us (We were Steven Universe and we could IC on day 5, but Mastin and Xtoxm showed up in a permanent neighborhood/alliance with us at the start of day 3) and we were paranoid of her then, even though the scum roles we saw flip made us believe that logically scum would not have been given knowledge that we were Steven prior to the first season finale because they had the ability to kill us and it would have taken just pure luck for us to escape death (we would have had to be allied with a specific player and that player would have had to use a 1-shot commute that specific night or otherwise scum could have killed us without any way for us to survive during the first finale, which was

BEFORE

we could get mod confirmation that we were IC. So even though we felt it was logically really bastard for either mastin or xtoxm to be scum, we were still paranoid of both of them (xtoxm ended up being scum, but that's a whole other story).

The point is... we don't give out town reads lightly. We're paranoid of everyone until we have good reasons to trust them, and you can see this in our play consistently in every game we've played.

So umm... stop assuming shit. This is a big game with a lot of people. Just because I'm not climbing down someone's throat doesn't mean I town read them. {Insert commentary about assumptions here}.

~D

P.S. - Cerb's at work and I've got a friend over so see ya'll later tonight

[Reasonably Rational]

O.o

That's a really silly use of whatever was just used, given that that farside already confirmed that the masonry thing wasn't true.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

that seems like... a very powerful ability that was just wasted.

also, 354. what does this mean?

Right??

Not Chara, in the first SU I don't believe there were any slots that granted benefits to those they were allied with, which is *probably* what she's referring to. However, in SU Prequel I think there were roles that benefited those they allied/fused with.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, I just realized that your response to my question of why you were interested in allying with our slot didn't give a concrete answer. You just said that you had read the first SU.

Was there something about our play in that game which made you prefer us as a potential ally?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

360: i see, i suppose that makes sense.

i asked to ally with you because i thought you'd be interesting/wordy, based on your play in the first game. i didn't want to ally with a low-content poster. and, at the time, there were few players besides grapes i found myself interested in sharing a topic with. i also wanted to keep my options open in case grapes said no/started looking like mafia.

Hmm. Alright. So why grapes? Did you ever give a reason for that?

-Cerb

Pedit: I see. So why didn't you ask me direcly about the individuals I said I was willing to ally with?

[Reasonably Rational]

Hmm. So what WERE you interested then, if not the reason you thought most likely for my choices?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

speaking of, has this line of questioning told you anything of note?

Unfortunately not. Your responses are rather lacking in substance, and you apparently can't recall what your true objective was with the alliance request. There's nothing at all alignment indicative or even really playstyle indicative about it all.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Something lacking in substance is NAI Cerby?

@NC, can you tell me your reads and why?

~VeggieWoman

Thr answers themselves weren't very informative, but they were reasonable answers to give. I didn't learn anything about his objectives which hadn't already been made clear in the thread, so yes, NAI. Had he given answers like these to a more significant question/were it later in the game it might be more meaningful, but at this stage I find it a reasonable, though not particular difficult to fake, line to take.

how much substance could one even have when talking about a short question? and how did you get not a single bit of information after those questions? you even said it wasn't playstyle indicative, even though i'd noted my preference for both high-content posters and an ally i thought was town. (you, as an example, were looking to ally with players to 'sort' them, and i imagine others are as well) that isn't information?

OBK: i don't have very many, besides Firebringer and grapes being town. McMenno is strange, and Rational was a townread that has lapsed into something closer to null. i'd have to look back at their posts for why i noted down those reads, but i'm tired and i don't want to do work right now.

The playstyle knowledge already existed in the thread. You repeating it here doesn't magically change the origin of that information to be this line of questioning, it just means you're being consistent in your responses and reasoning.

I didn't expect a lot of substance, but I DID hope for something more than "I wanna ally with people who will be active, and I didn't think asking you outright would give me answers I'd care about, but I can't really tell you what sort of answers I would have cared about."

-Cerb

Pedit: oh hey mastin2 came back. Do you still want my response to your earlier questioning?

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin has a proven record of being way above average at reading people. Sorry that she pegged you as scum, but so far you kind of look like scum trying to get town read. If you're not, maybe that should tell you something and you should adjust.

Hey, Cerb. I know this is a Drixx post, he can answer it too, it's applicable both ways, but Cerb knows this better overall.

Question time.

Why do you say this about Firebringer, who I noted as "scum?", with a question mark for good reason...

...While ignoring the one and only player I had marked as unambiguously, without any interrogation-mark attached, "scum."?

That is, why are you saying this about a read I'm not sure of...

...While not paying attention to the much, much, MUCH more notworthy read I have on Not Chara?

And!
Furthermore.

You're a smart guy and I can't hold context worth a damn. So if you haven't already figured this out, you would soon enough.
You know about my accuracy reading you.

And yet, I'm

not

townreading you.

Why am I not townreading you?
It's certainly not a question of quantity! You're among the highest post counts in the game. Why is it that the quality of those posts has not given me the impression you're town?
Why is it that you look like scum?

And furthermore! Why is it that Not Chara looks like the most obvious scumbuddy of yours in all of time?

It won't be satisfying! I don't know any reason why Drixx would be selectively responding to your posting, beyond the fact that your commentary was relevant to his ongoing interactions with one slot rather than another. If he had been systematically responding to you, as any alignment, he would have done so in a clear and cogent fashion. The fact that he picked out just one thing to respond to makes it far more likely that the point he noted was relevant to his current argument, than that he was avoiding the commentary on Not Chara.

Regarding your read on me based on my early game posting: If I had to give any reason, it's probably because my posting so far has been quite clinical, with the exception of the first sentence of my first post. It feels contrived and designed to you, rather than flowing organically, like I'm just going through the motions...and that's because I kinda am. There's scumhunting to be done here, sure, but you know the majority of my early game play is largely mechanical discussion oriented...and in this game there really isn't much to discuss that's publicly known, so I'm just asking people about alliance stuff since there's nothing else to talk about.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin, KC: Both of your town/miller things you're talking about, these points are due to mechanical points in your PM's, NOT flavor stuff, correct? I ask because there are a number of characters from the show who would be reasonable as millers, and as such their flavor could easily give you that impression without mechanical effects.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually I'm really dumb.

Don't answer the above. I'll just assume it's mechanical. The pool of potential millers, flavor wise, is pretty small, so let's not clarify that.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Klingon is scum.

Obiwan is scum.

RR might be scum.

Chara could be scum.

And there's 8 people who need to get vig'd already.

Is this serious?
I get rr but the rest?

Rr: Cerb head what do you think about Drixx comments about fire?

Some player out there is really dumb.

Drixx won't like me being all hydra dissonanty, but I think he's either smoking crack or it's all a gambit thing to get a reaction out of and strong read on FB.

He didn't actually have much to say to me about this before it happened, was just like "should I push FB for doing x?" And I was like ehm....I wouldn't, probably doesn't mean anything, but you do you man.

And he didn't tell me if it was because he seriously 100% thought fb was scum, or because it was a good conversation for him to dig into to establish that read.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So quick question: should I bother reading the last 18 pages? Is there any real content or is it just fucking around, pregame bullshit?

A lot of fucking around, but there is content.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

it's self explanatory? mcmenno's not a hydra
he'll have to fool not one but two town heads by allying with us

This doesn't make sense. By that logic, no scum, hydra or not, would volunteer to ally with another hydra. It might even be the case that as a hydra your risk is even higher, since there are two players which two players may read individually, thereby doubling the chance that you'll be caught.

Of course, that risk would apply to ALL of a hydras interactions with the game, so I don't really see why being in an aliance with a hydra is any riskier than normal play in thread.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Been workinf, driving now, I shall address your question when I am no longer mobile.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

That looks like a legit slip to me. That explanation stinks.

Also Titus ... what's up with ignoring me and appealing to Cerb?

As a side note ... you going to be around tonight? I was trying to talk to Cerb about something while he was at work and hopefully he'll agree with me, and if so we need to talk and hopefully I can get you to understand without blurting out something I don't want to say. Bleh ... that doesn't make much sense. Hopefully it will in a bit. Just stick around if you can.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

explain the "legit slip" now now now

You freaking said "lone scum" when talking about another player and a hypothetical alliance with a hydra. It looks like a legit slip. What is there to explain? The whole explanation made no sense.

I'll stick around if I can. Our times have not been syncing up.

Okay well here's the thing. There was a game we played together. I'm sure you remember it. We've talked about it because I wanted to figure out how you were able to do it and be so confident in yourself so early to pull it off. Hopefully you follow. We have a very similar ability and we would like to try and amplify its utility. I'd be happy with the town boost aspect, but if we could get the other part too, that would be awesome. And yes, our ability will do almost exactly what yours did. There are differences but I think with some help we could use it similarly.

Sorry for being so cryptic. If you followed me, you obviously understand why.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I love that wall mastin. Its...just so mastin. Ya know, the mastin who actually plays mafia, instead of the half assing one who I've seen lately.

Also, I'm sorry for the delay OWK. I went from work to running errands to a concert to getting food and am only now getting home.

I won't ignore your question and I'll make an actual attempt to have early reads, since redacted about redacted. I do believe you know what I'm talking about.

The thing Drixx mentioned.....there are certain limitations on the timing, which might easily make it so privately discussing it will result in things happening far later than they should.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay, so after a quick look at the playerlist and comparing it to my mental inventory of what people have actually done, I'm inclined to say Shiro. I know the majority(or maybe even all) of the games I've played with him he's been in hydra, but as *either* alignment his posting has always seemed far more effective than the pure noise he's been generating so far. It hasn't been a lot of noise, it's not high volume, but it *is* JUST noise. It's possible that I'm just...conflating his behavior with that of his hydra partners/the actions their behaviors forced him to take, but that is the first slot I would be voting for if I ever actually voted for anyone, and will be the first slot I expect to see significant content out of among those who have so far contributed nothing, and thus the slot most worth pressuring to put him into that "effective" posting state that I normally see him in.

You're more familiar with Shiro individually than I am. Is this behavior what you would expect from him in this somewhat unique game state?

Did anyone say anything else that required my attention that I may have missed?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Cerb you don't remember me much in uni mafia do you?

Holy shit you were in that game?

I quite literally remember nothing about you from that game.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It was directed at Titus, because she's the one who was asking about who I thought she should be voting for.

And got it.

Hmm.

I refuse to go look at that game ever again, so, I suppose I'll just take your word on that. Okay. You should really get invested then. Pretend you're hydraing with FA and people are saying stupid shit about your slot that you need to respond to.

-Cerb

Pedit: Drixx and Titus are weird. Considering I responded to that whole comment before Drixx did and found it perfectly clear what you intended, given the context of my response, I can say nothing but they must share some inability to properly parse certain phrases.

[Reasonably Rational]

RR what the duck are your reads?

I never responded to this because I didn't notice it, I'll give you an answer beyond what I told Titus when I get home.

I am feeling like this could be Firebringer's scum game.

FINALLY SOMEONE NOTICES!

Who are your partners?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ah well, worth a try.

I just asked Beeboy about this in our little aliance thingie, and he hasn't had the chance to answer yet, but I think his non-presence here is really weird. Last time I saw him in hydra he was the dominant head, by far, but here he seems to be very quiet.

Beyond that, OWK(Titus head at least) is acting as I'dexpect her to act as town. Super null on the slot overall, well see what happens in our pt.

One read for you fb, and I didn't even bitch and demand thst you tell me exactly who you want my thoughts on. Give me some direction if you want anymore. What other slots besides myself should people be looking at/are you interesting in bearing people's thoughts on?

-Cerb

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

One read for you fb, and I didn't even bitch and demand thst you tell me exactly who you want my thoughts on. Give me some direction if you want anymore. What other slots besides myself should people be looking at/are you interesting in bearing people's thoughts on?

Honestly Cerb, theres no one I really you to examine right now. You are the only one I am interested in.
By you, I kind of mean more of Drixx, cause he felt super super scummy to me and ever since then I think you have been doing damage control for what he did.

The whole push on you felt super scummy, or all his posts in general?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

What explanation? My response to mastins question about why Drixx utilized her read on you in his argument while ignoring NC?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Huh. Weird.

Okay. I don't really understand your interpretation of what seemed fairly straightforward to me, but alright!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

in particular using an ability on that was wasteful as it was concluded it was a joke.


~lycan

Maybe the user submitted their investigation while they were skimming/catching up, thus weren't aware of the fact it got refuted a few posts later. I'd say "once a day" is right though, as with most investigative roles.

I'm contemplating on giving them something explicit like "I'm Town aligned" to get them to write me off as scum, but I don't want to consume their one-shot per day either.

Anyway, it's out there for them to decide to check or not: I'm Town aligned. There!

Varsoon hates cops. There is no chance a lie detector power would function on an alignment claim.

-Cerb

Pedit: you should have probably told Yume to keep that information secret. :/

[Reasonably Rational]

Does alliance in that context mean that Skybird can talk to the player who has role card of Steven Universe?
I am guessing that makes Skybird "Connie".

Really not a bad assumption.

As for the event triggering the -2 stress: an extension of me being a miller I suppose is that my event power instead of raising stress lowers it by two. That was my trigger. (I know, Varsoon said that in general, town events will raise stress and scum events will lower stress. But mine didn't. Dealwithit.) It was a pro-town power, I assure you, best used early rather than later especially given that I'm going to die early this game regardless.

VOTE: Not Chara.

Okay, now I've taken care of that neighborhood stuff. I am ready to sheep.

VOTE: Not Chara

The blind leading the blinder.

So is this purely you insulting mastin and Yume, or does this mean you firmly disagree with mastins scumread on NC?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Cakey, really, with multiple people calling my question scummy, you think RR will answer? More than likely, they will retreat into their "we never give reads" posture. Yet, people can be read based on the stances they take, even if early or premature.

I'm tempted to dump in an essay here, but I just want you to know I saw this and I resisted.

It's what it says. It's up to you whether you believe it or not. *shrugs*

That would be a ridiculous thing for you to lie about.

Agreed, but maybe confused or a gambit? I think Mastina's town anyway so no rush. Yume is likely town as well. KTS is town because they are not going to fake innocent child as scum.

that's obviously a joke

so I think skybird is town, because having an automatic pt with steven universe, and thereby automatically knowing who they are seems pretty strong for scum, going to townlean her for that

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

I want to believe

Umm... we were Steven in the first SU game. Our big thing was that we could IC on day 5. On day 3 we had two people and ourselves thrown into a permanent alliance. (Mastin and Xtoxm). We then lynched a scum that day who had strongman on season finale and so we actually ended up using the same logic. We concluded that Varsoon would not have given scum knowledge of who we were so they could just turn around and murder us the next night without us having any reliable way to avoid it (there were two ways for us to avoid it: luck into lynching the strongman before first finale (this is what happened) or another town slot had to be both alive, allied with us, have a 1-shot per game ability available and USE it to commute us and them out of the game on the finale night). We were so certain that it made no sense to make an IC and then have it get killed 99% of the time before it could ever become IC that we concluded scum would not have been given access to our identity.

Now ... Varsoon does like to change things up as a mod so I wouldn't go so far as to say Skybird automatically must be scum ... but I sure as hell am not going to assume town after what happened in the original game.

Long story short: farside was being widely scum read but we put together a case for why they were almost certainly town. We were running a reaction test on them before we unvoted and moved on to plan we had stated. The plan we had stated called for us lynching Grapes (claimed miller) that day, someone else the next day and the final scum the day after.

Grapes, ignoring our really strong case for why farside must be town decided to hammer farside and end the day rather than take his lynch, which he knew he had to eat because of being and claiming miller. His action took us from guaranteed win to a last day where we had someone who had been kind of super trollish (think firebringer, only WAY worse) plus our two day 3 alliance people still alive.

Since we assumed scum would not have been gifted knowledge of who we were, that really strongly influenced our thinking and we ended up lynching the super-troll player, and Xtoxm was the last scum.

So yeah ... ummm. Please don't make unfounded assumptions. Please.

Does alliance in that context mean that Skybird can talk to the player who has role card of Steven Universe?
I am guessing that makes Skybird "Connie".

Really not a bad assumption.

As for the event triggering the -2 stress: an extension of me being a miller I suppose is that my event power instead of raising stress lowers it by two. That was my trigger. (I know, Varsoon said that in general, town events will raise stress and scum events will lower stress. But mine didn't. Dealwithit.) It was a pro-town power, I assure you, best used early rather than later especially given that I'm going to die early this game regardless.

VOTE: Not Chara.

Okay, now I've taken care of that neighborhood stuff. I am ready to sheep.

VOTE: Not Chara

The blind leading the blinder.

I warned you. You just went on my PL list for this game. Be an unwarranted asshole again and see what happens.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

grapes, let me address some things you said that sorta reveal fundamental misunderstanding of what to expect from us.

1) I have a job which is not at a computer now and just moved to a new city and am thus going out of my way to do things and go out. I have been MUCH less of a "presence" as you said in my recent games. I still post quite a bit, but there's been a definite drop since your last time playing with me...and since I'm generally the primary head active in thread for this hydra, that means we're simply not around as much.

2) You do realize that me even talking about ONE read this early in a game is EXTREMELY uncharacteristic. The standard "doesn't have reads, must be scum" argument isn't relevant when applied to me. Think back on your previous experience with me. Now, you could be suspicious of me BECAUSE I was actually willing to establish and share a read, and that would be understandable ( and something I couldn't answer, since I'm only establishing reads this game because of redacted about redacted), but the current reason is not.

3) I tend to only develop early scumreads based on obvious contradictions/inconsistencies. I haven't NOTICED any of those yet (other than the mastin ally thing, but considering it causee something that makes her 99% town, it's clearly not an inconsistency caused by scum lies). Why is this relevant? Because there was nothing like that which caused that read. The ONLY reason why I had any suspicions of him was due to a difference in playstyle from what I've seen before, and he immediately showed up and told me there was a game I had played with him before where his play was similar. That means I actually had *no* reason to be suspicious of him in the first place, and thus said suspicion dissolved.

What did you mean by "unvetted post"?

Regarding Drixxs push on FB: FB was with us in SD2. He *should* be aware of the massive rift that formed in that game due to Titus' hydra and our hydra having extreme levels of paranoia about one another. There's not the same DEPTH of experience regarding the interactions between Titus and ourselves that we personally have of course,, but that point about our history should be well known to him. I agree that the rest of his push was a stretch.
I've NEVER actually seen fire this involved, as either alignment so I'm not sure what to think..sorta like the thing with the beeboy head of OWK. Non standard behaviors from both those slots, but the behaviors differ from their playstyle, not their scum or town meta in particular.

I'll be actually home and at my computer tonight, so I'll be around to do something more than respond to grapes.

In the interim, does anyone have anything in particular they'd like me to comment on so I can respond to everything when I get home?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

what would YOU have done were you scum and got invited to a hood where it says "X is Town"??

I would do nothing with it. Me and my scumbuds would already know, and the town would have no need to know.

oh and I think mastina said somewhere that yume was conftown too, I don't remember the post though

I don't think these two ideas are so contradictory. Not sharing that x is conftown is the pro town move to do, unless there is a decent chance the person in question will be mislynched. What scum *can't * do in that situation is fail to support that slot, but there is no reason why they need to immediately share the information with town.

With that said, the most concrete thing we can gather from this is that mastin is almost certainly town, since only in the possibility space where both Yume AND mastin are scum AND they decided it would be a great idea to guarantee that if mastin flips scum at some point Yume will always be lynched immediately afterwards...and thats incredibly implausible. If it were someone less clever than mastin, I'd say it was impossible, but as audacious as that move would be, I don't belive the risk would be worth the reward for scum!her.

So yeah, mastins conftown state should be accepted at face value, so we should act appropriately.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

grapes, are you of the school of thought that interacting with your scumreads isn't worthwhile?

Cuz I sorta wrote a buncha stuff in bed this morning, which included some questions for you, and you ignored it all.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm on the fence about a lot of players but here are some thoughts and reads I've had.

farside is town (Even though I will probably get accused of buddying w/e). A high level of engagement with the game and probably the game's strongest scumhunter currently. Which is why Snarky is really hard to read. On the one hand, the push is bullshit. On the other hand, they are putting themselves out there very strongly with their bullshit read/case thing. I'm uncertain as of this moment if that's because Snarky is scum caught with their pants down and now forced to push the read until they can weasel their way out of it OR they are town who genuinely believe what is actually not a fantastic scumread at all. So I'm sitting on that one.

SirCakez and McMenno are two other scumreads I have. If a wagon emerged on either on them, I would definitely join in. grapes has largely outlined a fairly excellent case on Cakez, but there is a strong tendency of surface level play, a going through the motions of engagement. McMenno has been lurking in the wings and also rolefishing super hard. I think every player here wants more answers in terms of role shit but McMenno's questioning of Mastin seemed like scum using the pretense of that lack of information to try and secure a lynch.

I wanted to pressure TWIE almost more than I scumread them. If that makes sense. See if I could beetlejuice them into the thread.
Same thing with Xkfyu. The big difference here being that they showed up and made some other awful posts.

I am really not sure what people are seeing in Not Chara as scum.

I've never played with Seraphim before.


How is this lynchbait like someone said?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

May not be the best idea to draw conclusions here based on varsoon's last couple games.

Grapes you're doing a really good job wrecking town vibes you give off with posts like this one.

Why on earth

would you try and shoot down a super sensible point like that? It's a Varsoon game so will it work exactly the same as it did then? Probably not. But then again, he gave scum ownership of the spaceship in Space Dandy II which gave them a day 2 win if they had played optimally (and if they had realized it was possible).

But Varsoon's mod meta isn't even fucking RELEVANT to the point Almost50 was making. Varsoon warned us bluntly that he gave scum the means to punish attempts to break this game via flavor. He told us flavor claim at our own risk. Almost50 came along and pointed out that Varsoon recently ran a game where if you claimed your flavor name/character, that info could be used to kill you, and his entire point for posting that was to warn people to freaking be careful.

And you want to dismiss that concern because of mod meta ... after Varsoon went way the hell out of his way to warn us not to try and flavor break the game and flat out told us there are measures in places for the scum team to punish flavor claiming?

What the hell dude?

what would YOU have done were you scum and got invited to a hood where it says "X is Town"??

I would do nothing with it. Me and my scumbuds would already know, and the town would have no need to know.

oh and I think mastina said somewhere that yume was conftown too, I don't remember the post though

I don't think these two ideas are so contradictory. Not sharing that x is conftown is the pro town move to do, unless there is a decent chance the person in question will be mislynched. What scum *can't * do in that situation is fail to support that slot, but there is no reason why they need to immediately share the information with town.

With that said, the most concrete thing we can gather from this is that mastin is almost certainly town, since only in the possibility space where both Yume AND mastin are scum AND they decided it would be a great idea to guarantee that if mastin flips scum at some point Yume will always be lynched immediately afterwards...and thats incredibly implausible. If it were someone less clever than mastin, I'd say it was impossible, but as audacious as that move would be, I don't belive the risk would be worth the reward for scum!her.

So yeah, mastins conftown state should be accepted at face value, so we should act appropriately.

-Cerb

Mastin apparently did something to get a game-long alliance with Yume and that confirmed Mastin as town to Yume, and according to the following quote, it confirmed Yume as town to Mastin. Going to go ahead and just assume they're town until there's some compelling reason to think otherwise.

Wait is Yume conftown via mastin?

Yes.

Rr: what did you think of grapes points thus far?

I did a reread and the big post is the first time he's really explained his scum reads and they all read for weak reason's in my opinion.

Back and forth. For awhile it was because of his absurd "case" against our slot. Some other stuff I've got in the multi-quote has reinforced the question marks. His "reasoning" for reading us as scum because of me going after Firebringer for inconsistency is just day one bullshit. He hasn't played enough with me to know that I always go after people for being inconsistent or saying things that shouldn't come from them based upon what I know about them and games I've played together with them.

Like ...

NOBODY

who played through Space Dandy II, or any of the following few games where Titus and I were on the same playerlist, could possibly believe that Titus would ever blindly trust me or just info-vomit to me.

And; for the record, despite a very great show of good faith on our part and asking Titus for help planning something, we still don't know the first thing about OWK's role or anything. As I predicted, she isn't saying shit to us or giving us any info.

Firebringer was wrong about something he simply shouldn't be expected to be wrong about, which makes his posts fake, which calls him into serious question. Calling me scum for pushing him on that is just weird.

Grapes, work the shit out with Farside tvym.

Trying yo.

It looks like you're "trying" in the same way you did in SU original when we proved logically that farside was town and you hammered her and cost us the win.

Too soon?

Farside is pretty pissed I scum read her huh. And very much in the way of "what the shit everyone townread me you caught me for nonsense reasons"

i don't really agree with your reasons either. you're sayjng farside is scum who is angry about being caught for bad reasons?
are your reasons bad? why should we be listening to you?

I'm more pissed that players aren't voting for obvious scum then anything.

Make the case. You know how we operate. Give me something that's reasonable and we're your huckleberries.

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

So grapes has negative utility and didn't claim it?

Not Chara is obvscum.

There's a wagon there.

@Farside, Do you scumread anyone on the Not Chara wagon?

4 votes isn't much of a wagon in this game.
Seeing how yume is I wouldn't follow it.

Ooooooo how about a wagon on cakez!

Vote: sir cakez

You mean four players, all universally regarded as town, and the wagon doesn't take?
Almost50, myself, Yume, and mastina are all on the NC wagon. The NC wagon is facing major resistance.

Why wouldn't scum be hopping on here if the wagon was wrong as a method of discrediting those on the wagon if it was wrong?

This reminds me very much of the wagon on LQ in Sudoken Mafia.

That's kind of a good observation, especially since Yume and Mastin either are legit conftown or would have to be part of a scum team that decided to put Mastin and Yume out as the people to fake being conftown to one another. Like I said earlier: gonna assume they're conftown unless something major comes along to call for a reassessment there. Almost50 is so OTAF it hurts and so that's a wagon with 2 conftown, 1 really obvious town and you ... and it won't move. That's concerning.

Not Chara is obvscum.

There's a wagon there.

@Farside, Do you scumread anyone on the Not Chara wagon?

4 votes isn't much of a wagon in this game.
Seeing how yume is I wouldn't follow it.

Ooooooo how about a wagon on cakez!

Vote: sir cakez

You mean four players, all universally regarded as town, and the wagon doesn't take?
Almost50, myself, Yume, and mastina are all on the NC wagon. The NC wagon is facing major resistance.

Why wouldn't scum be hopping on here if the wagon was wrong as a method of discrediting those on the wagon if it was wrong?

This reminds me very much of the wagon on LQ in Sudoken Mafia.

That's a bad reason to keep pushing it.
Won't join
Move on

That's actually a really good reason. If Not Chara is town, why wouldn't we see more people on that wagon? Why are you trying to derail that wagon, in fact?

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

lol

Scumfucks voting me for role based on an assumption.

VOTE: Not Chara

If someone is supposed to receive a benefit for allying with another person, then allies with you and does not receive the benefit, it logically follows that you are the reason why.

That's negative utility. You didn't claim it earlier. Why not?

Mod: Do scum have daychat?

Yes they do¹

1: See next quote.

MISCELLANEOUS:

Any and all anti-town factions in this game have day-chat.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drixx if you have a scumread on me, and you have said you want to PL me because I am a dick, why exactly aren't you trying to get me lynched right now?

I don't get that about you right now.

You're behaving way out of the norm for you. I don't know for sure that means you are scum. The only actual evidence I have against you is that you tried to say Titus would tell me all kinds of information when you were in freaking Space Dandy II and saw the absurd amount of ugliness between us there. There's no rational headspace for you to be in where you make that assumption and statement.

You also stopped being an asshole, so why would I invest a bunch of effort pushing you over one thing that doesn't make sense when people are literally lining up and falling all over themselves to look more scummy than you?

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

It looks like you're "trying" in the same way you did in SU original when we proved logically that farside was town and you hammered her and cost us the win.

Too soon?

Pretty sure what cost us the win was your hardheaded setup spec I had the game solved.

I hammered fuzzy ftr. I've never read farside wrong.

You know that you can't just hand wave reality away right? People can go look at SU and see that we cleared Farside, see that our proposed way to play out the game would result in a town win, and would see that you got pissy and hammered someone you knew was town because ... well you never actually explained why. I do recall you admitting it was really selfish and then not seeing you again until now. Did you join so you could fuck over town this game too?

[Reasonably Rational]

How is it negative utility?

It can stop scum from getting shit. And forces them to keep not getting shit.

Umm... let's see. You shut down people's alliance powers. There are more town than scum. Maths is apparently hard for you?

[Reasonably Rational]

Firebringer was wrong about something he simply shouldn't be expected to be wrong about, which makes his posts fake, which calls him into serious question. Calling me scum for pushing him on that is just weird.

Nobody is calling you scum for making a push.

Grapes is calling your push fake and over inflated.

What's your read on chara?

Why are you speaking about yourself in the third person?

By definition all early pushes are going to seem silly compared to later when more info is available and better cases can be made. That's why I'm not sweating it. You'll come around because we're consistent and time will make it obvious.

I already said what I think about Not Chara, albeit indirectly. I think OWK (Titus head I think) has a very good point that something is wrong when a wagon on someone that consists of two conftown, someone who is so OTAF it hurts and OWK and people are throwing themselves at the wagon trying to derail it ... something's wrong there.

If you're putting a gun to my head, I think that just looking at that is enough to warrant pushing Not Chara further.


Also: you should probably respect the fact that Not Chara has asked for the gender neutral pronouns from you at least twice that I noticed now and you keep defaulting to masculine.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@Drixx,

Grapes is no more negative utility than a roleblocker is negative utility. You may object to any role being negative utility in that sense. Yet, things like millers, ascetics, redirectors and ninjas are what we think of when discussing negative utility. NOt a role that if used incorrectly can hurt town.

@Farside,

Will find your question and answer it in a moment.

Hrm... good point. Maybe.

A roleblocker is a targeted power that you aim at someone and they get blocked. This is a situation where we set up alliances mutually, and Grapes (apparently?) has no control over whether he does it or not.

I suppose I agree. It probably is moot because grapes either won't ally with anyone for the rest of the game or he'll become conftown somehow and presumably if that happens some clever way to use him to disrupt scum will come to mind. And it's not necessarily the case that he used it incorrectly anyway. I didn't have Not Chara anywhere near possible scum until you pointed out the weirdness with the wagon, so Grapes may have done really good.


@Grapes - Sorry for being snide. I let my snark run away with me a bit. As to your direct question; given the standard we don't really do reads early on I am leaning towards not scum on you because of your role. It seems like the kind of risk/reward role Varsoon likes to give to town and he would have to be miles and miles away from his established tendencies for you to be scum with that particular ability. I know you don't like setup spec, but sometimes it helps.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

I don't get why you are so confident on this.
Remember how you said paranoia was lacking for Not CHara?

I see little self doubt in your own reads, which makes me nervous about you Grapes.

Fire, you're doing that thing rather than reassessing your own reads with evidence, you try to attack the presenter of the evidence instead. That's textbook confirmation bias.

am I?
Cause I really just don't think anything Not Chara has done is scummy.

Should I reaccess everytime a person tells me I am wrong?

No. Not everytime. We all know that I'm generally the least likely person to reassess probably in the history of mafia. Yet, if an all town wagon emerges, and you don't want it, that presents problems for the gamestate. Having town reaching a hard-fought consensus is generally how town wins games.

Sticking your nose in the sand doesn't help anyone. Statements of "she's newb town" don't help anyone. Engage us. Explain how NC is town, more than the mere conclusion. Mere conclusions don't sway anyone. Show your work.

I asked you a question.
Have you seen scum vomit info this early in the game before.
If so, how often.
I want links with this request

Moves rr back to null scum.

Vomit "info"? Or just whine and complain about being scum.

You should check out Suikoden Mafia. This is a lot like LickedQuickety's scumgame.

Not every scum lurks like a mothertrucker when suspected.

Okay let me explain what I see when I get to the computer.

Also rr was hovering over the idea of voting chara. You should reread his long post.

I actually asked you to convince me and then I got to Titus pointing out the weirdness about the wagon. Cerb is busy at work so it's up to me at the moment.

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm pretty sure she did explain it farside? Mastin was confirmed town to her, and she is sheeping mastins push.

I mean it's not a very satisfactory reason, but she definitely gave one.

And yes, I'd also like to hear if you have any thoughts of your own to share with us, Yume.

-Cerb

Pedit: any other thoughts Yume?

[Reasonably Rational]

Go to sleep, wake up, get lunch, come home, 10 new pages.
...I'm proud.

I'm proud too Varsoon. And it's not all just me and Titus bitching at one another! Other people are playing too!!!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm pretty sure she did explain it farside? Mastin was confirmed town to her, and she is sheeping mastins push.

I mean it's not a very satisfactory reason, but she definitely gave one.

And yes, I'd also like to hear if you have any thoughts of your own to share with us, Yume.

-Cerb

Pedit: any other thoughts Yume?

Unfortunately, none. I have to keep silent because I want to avoid flavor claiming. Some tips?

Mmm, focus on other people instead of yourself, so that way you're not tempted to claim anything? If the games focus shifts to you for some reason, pretend that they're all idiots who should be ignored, and just keep focused on trying to contribute as best you can?

Maybe you can start with the assumption that NC is scum, since that's your base point, and tell me how you feel about the set of interactions between OWK, grapes, myself, and NC. Oh, and FB and Farside too, they've also taken positions and said enough to hopefully give you something to say about it all.

-Cerb

Pedit: I like Yume and multiple people have been asses to her so far. Is it so terrible that I'd rather be nice to her than neutral?

[Reasonably Rational]

Yume, what is the source of your scumread on farside?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm sorry everyone, I have the worst toothache imaginable and will not be doing shit with this game until it stops.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

OKAY I'm seeing what people are talking about with the cakes/menno dynamic.

I don't, but nothing Menno has said has really stuck with me. Need to reread his iso. What do you see?

Also, wanna ally?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR Didn't you want to ally with me next? I don't know if OBW will accept my offer....

I completely forgot about that, but yes! Absolutely.

Consider the offer withdrawn grapes.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

"Are you okay?"

-Steven

"Are

you

okay? You're the one that's been through everything. The least I could do is just listen."

-Connie,

Full Disclosure

VOTECOUNT 1.0

Not Voting (25):

Obi-Wan Kenobi, Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Xkfyu, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Farside22, Yume, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, grapes, mastin2, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, McMenno, Firebringer, Seraphim, SnarkySnowman, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

KEEP BEACH CITY WEIRD:

Oh lame! So I got this plain role, and I can't use it during pregame at all!

Welcome to Steven Universe! I bet this must be a weird game, you might find something like a Foxbird!

Among this insanity, you might find someone you can trust, someone like Obi-Wan Kenobi.

You should also be careful! There are some bad guys around that want to make your win not-so-easy, don't let them Killthestory!

And there's also me, sum them up together and you'll get me!

"Wow, I didn't know you wanted to be an actor!"

-Steven

"That's because...
I'm very good at acting."

-Jamie,

Love Letters

VOTECOUNT 1.06

Not Chara (5):

mastin2, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Almost50, grapes

Reasonably Rational (3):

Firebringer, McMenno, DrippingGoofball

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

SirCakez (2):

Creature, Farside22

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

McMenno (1):

CooLDoG

SnarkySnowman (1):

Xkfyu (1):

Seraphim

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

grapes (1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (9):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Skybird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

Peridot @Peridot5xg tweeted: I'm a survivor I'm not gon' give up I'm not gon' stop I'm gon' work harder I'm a survivor I'm gonna make it I will survive Keep on survivin'

So, I think we should talk about the addendums to these posts.
The first one is clearly a message from whoever rolled Ronaldo, and the second from whoever rolled Peridot. It's most likely that these are town slots sharing information (purely flavor wise), but not impossible that they're messages from scum.

The primary reason play wise why they're likely town messages is the lack of significant content. Seems likely scum with the ability to anonymously broadcast information to the thread would do so in a way designed to steer the conversations in a certain direction /cast suspicion on certain slots

Thsee posts don't do that. They're just fluff.

Just my .02, carry on.

Oh. Actually not. I remember someone(I think Mastin?) suggested that one of the wagons was a counterwagon to all the other wagons, which were on scum. Someone should look at that wagon composition and see who the driving forces behind said counterwagon are/were. I'd do it myself, but work...I just don't want to forget to look into that later on. Mainly curious if said composition fits in with mastins established set of reads for the scum team.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

To answer you, RR, her hard defense of NC is suspicious. It looks to me like the defense of their buddy.

p-edit: Well, since you asked nicely....

VOTE: McMenno

Yume *did* already address that. It's a question I asked her yesterday.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm reading up right now, but I wanna point something out quickly: has anyone commented on the fact that there seems to be some kinda blank vote on snarky? I thought it was a mod error but it's been in there twice now.

I completely missed that.

Snarky, do you have any knowledge of why there is a blank vote on you?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

"Don't worry, bro. None of this is canon."

-Uncle Grandpa,

Say Uncle

VOTECOUNT 1.04

Not Chara (4):

mastin2, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Almost50

Reasonably Rational (3):

grapes, Firebringer, McMenno

Obi-Wan Kenobi (2):

Not Chara, SirCakez

SirCakez (2):

SnarkySnowman, Creature

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

McMenno (1):

CooLDoG

TheWayItEnds (1):

Seraphim

Seraphim (1):

Farside22

Not Voting (10):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Skybird, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

"You can't just attack people you don't understand. You have to stick up for them, and listen to what they have to say. You guys always do that for me."

-Steven,

Say Uncle

VOTECOUNT 1.05

Not Chara (5):

mastin2, Yume, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Almost50, grapes

Reasonably Rational (3):

Firebringer, McMenno, DrippingGoofball

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

SirCakez (2):

Creature, Farside22

Creature (1):

Xkfyu

McMenno (1):

CooLDoG

SnarkySnowman (1):

Xkfyu (1):

Seraphim

Farside22 (1):

SnarkySnowman

grapes (1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (9):

Klingoncelt, Foxbird, Skybird, Shiro, Reasonably Rational, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-21 15:10:00)

The Current Stress is -1:

Alright, so sometime between these two posts is when the vote showed up. So it's likely coming from someone else, rather than being an innate part of snarkys role (unless he triggered something which had the cost of putting a vote on him).

Normally I'd say using a power to put an anonymous vote on someone through private means and keeping the fact that you control the vote secret was scummy, but Varsoon had powers like that in both Bloodborne and Suikoden. In Suikoden it was a proxy slot, which was controlled by scum, and in Bloodborne there were two instances, one a town slot with three votes it could control anonymously, and one another proxy slot, again controlled by scum.

So, not really sure if the source of this is more likely town or scum.

-Cerb

Pedit: Good thought. Skybird, is that your doubled vote? Is your double vote splittable from your main vote/can it be used to cause a double lynch?

Pedit2: speaking of the Joyride, how do all the members of said event feel about one another?

[Reasonably Rational]

Wagon of 6, contains 3 scumreads...

Let's just get McMenno to L-3 before we unvote him. I have seen it before (not in a Varsoon game though) that someone needed a certain amount of votes to get confirmed. )If I remember right, it was Frozen in an offsite game, and she needed to be voted by more than half the votes needed for a lynch to confirm her IC status). I simply want to know if this is the case (since McMenno asked to be voted) and if so then what exactly he gains from it.

McMenno specifically said he did not get anything from.being voted. He could be lying, I suppose, but it still seems sorta dumb to pile votes on him for any reason other than believing he's scum.

Which is something I'll look into when I get home from dancing, because dancing with petty girls>mafia. I don't actually understand any of the McMenno defenses OR suspicions, so yeah. Gotta read that iso and figure out why you're all even bothering to talk about him.

DGB: Do you ever do anything in games you play in? I've seen you as scum once and town once and both times you might as well have been an empty slot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, A50 claiming his event reminds me of something: generally speaking, I don't think people should claim responsibility for their events. By doing so, you're informing scum by letting them know that slots x/y/z do not have additional powers to utilize.

It's a minor point, probably, but it's still not really a good idea.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

OK, signing off..

VOTE: Not Chara

Update: RR moves up to a full town read.

Question: How sure are we that this is single-ball? I've only played one Varsoon game before, so I'm not on top of his mod-meta. I did (still do) play the game as if it was a single-ball, but then 5 scums vs 20 Town is a bit too low for my liking, so I'm thinking more like 6 scums maybe.

Varsoon very much dislikes the swinginess inherent in multiball, but this is the first game of ths size that he's ran, so it's certainly possible.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

OK, signing off..

VOTE: Not Chara

Update: RR moves up to a full town read.

Question: How sure are we that this is single-ball? I've only played one Varsoon game before, so I'm not on top of his mod-meta. I did (still do) play the game as if it was a single-ball, but then 5 scums vs 20 Town is a bit too low for my liking, so I'm thinking more like 6 scums maybe.

Varsoon very much dislikes the swinginess inherent in multiball, but this is the first game of ths size that he's ran, so it's certainly possible.

-Cerb

Actually, I shouldn't say he dislikes the swinginess per se. He dislikes that it creates an environment where, for scum, the general best play is to lay low and not engage in the rhetoric of rhe game, so as to keep yourself safe from the other teams shots. Instead of trying to be a paragon of towniness and unlynchable....you want to be just above the edge of lynchable, so you're safe from all the threats.

Anyways, that's my understanding of his position at least. Not that any of thst changes the fundamental point that we should make no assumptions about the setup based on Varsoon's meta.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, uh....

Spoiler: of importance

So does any of you players have any idea in what way scum can punish flavor claims? Scum rolecop or something else?

Don't even think about it.

It's very doubtful that claiming anything about your flavor will have any significant effect on the game state. Like, best case is it makes you conftown, but you're pretty much already there, so it's ALL downside potentially.

And A50 already gave an example of a role on a varsoon game that could kill people if it knew their flavor. It was a town vig, so it would probably be too strong to give scum, but the threat is there. Maybe they can vanillaize people who claim, or all their kills are strongman versus characters whose flavor waa claimes.

Like, all I know is we were explicitly advised to not share our flavor, so...the more strongly you want to do that, the more likely it is that it would be a really bad idea to do so.

-Cerb

Pedit: Creature, Beeboy said he's been busy with school or something. Let the man have a Friday night to relax before he wastes his timen mafi.

[Reasonably Rational]

Question: How sure are we that this is single-ball?

V never gives confirmation of single-ball, but I'll eat three eggs in one bite if this game turns up multiball.
I'm positive it's not.

Plus, you people who keep on thinking, "X is scum, and Y also is scum, but they're attacking each other" keep jumping to the wrong conclusion. It's not "opposite scum". It's not even "bussing scum", not yet anyway.

It's that you're wrong about one of your scumreads, and might be right on the other one, but are definitely wrong on at least one.

Go ahead and ask me how I know this.

How do you know this?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Fuck it, further preview time.

Varsoon very much dislikes the swinginess inherent in multiball, but this is the first game of ths size that he's ran, so it's certainly possible.
-Cerb

See this comment?

This comment is literally everywhere in his iso.
EVERYWHERE.
Not this exact words.
This exact type of comment.

People will be asking all these questions about things.
Cerb will try to appear helpful, useful, by answering them...
...But instead of actually giving a hard stance on them, he gives a nonanswer.
He gives something noncommittal, something that looks like it is answering the question but is meant to leave the player with just as much doubt as what they had before, only with the impression Cerb was helping them.

And it's not just on mechanics.
On players? Same thing.
On reads? Same thing.

He will take the fence.
He will stay in the middle.

There's a difference between him keeping cards to his chest, there's a difference between him being cautious, there's a difference between him having a slow start, there's a difference between him carefully considering issues to come to an eventual conclusion...

...And him doing literally fuckall of nothing.
He is doing nothing. He is trying to appear like he's doing something. But he is doing. absolutely. nothing. Nothing. Nothing of substance. When Cerb is town, he has the close reads to his chest, caution, slow to start, with him carefully weighing issues...but he actually comes to hard stances eventually. All of his prodding and poking (which he DOES, mind you! He prods and he pokes, he asks questions, he tries to make inquiries here and there) has a point, has an objective, as he fact-checks, as he tries to find answers, as he tries to progress the gamestate.

But here, instead of that proactive self...his play is completely, and entirely, REACTIVE. His play is completely and entirely without push. He is doing nothing but answering. He isn't asking. Just answering.

And that pattern has been in the game for FAR too fucking long for this to be an abnormality in Cerb's towngame.

This is Reasonably Rational as scum.

This is a dead repeat of what he did in Gistou. Look there at the non-Bins posts to get a fair idea of what he did and wasn't doing.
He tried to appear helpful.
He answered mechanical questions.

But he didn't scumhunt.

He's not scumhunting here.
He hasn't been.
Just answering.

So, after answering grapes post, I resolved to ignore the wholly specious case against our slot, but I'll address this part at least:

This thing you're pointing out? This emptiness of things, and mechanical helpfulness in the early game?

This is what I do early game. You know why that was my play in gistou? Because it was early game.

Look at *any* of my games mastin. You're somehow scumreading me based on a trait of my play which you know exists throughout all my early games(with the possible exception of Bloodborne, because I was actually trying really hard to be townread there so I could go on adventures). Self meta is bullshit, of course, but you can do your own examination. Hell, EVERY single one of you who has been talking about how we're scum EASILY has enough experience with our play to know this.

ALSO.

In Gistou(like in this game) I had a job where I can't just sit around and spend all day "probing" more, until the evenings(which have been busy), and the weekends(like now, which is when I'm planning on actually attempting to accomplish something. I can see why that might make it more obvious that I'm mainly making posts of the sort that bother you, because the posts that take work are less frequent, but it doesn't change the fact that insightful deep scumhunting is NOT anywhere close to what I do early game.

An accusation that I'm scum because I'm not scumhunting in a "standard" manner D1 is worthless, and you *should* know that.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, wtf mastin? I *DON'T* have firm stances on thing this early fucking ever. There is NO evidence of, well, ANYTHING. How many kills have we seen? How many flips have we seen? 0. You know what that means? I can't make *any* proper speculation about the setup other than vomiting out what I've chatted with Varsoon about privately regarding multiball(generally when I was bitching to him about someone elses multiball game).

I mean, at least now I understand *why* you're misreading my play, it's entirely because of my fucking job keeping me from actually playing mafia, so that's something I guess.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

As for the event triggering the -2 stress: an extension of me being a miller I suppose is that my event power instead of raising stress lowers it by two. That was my trigger. (I know, Varsoon said that in general, town events will raise stress and scum events will lower stress. But mine didn't. Dealwithit.) It was a pro-town power, I assure you, best used early rather than later especially given that I'm going to die early this game regardless.

Generally, anti-town Episode Events and outcomes will move the stress meter towards 'Tragic Destiny.'
Pro-town Episode Events and outcomes will move the stress meter towards 'Slice of Life'.

Quoted From the first post. Why did you lie there ?

Um.
I didn't?
Read again.
Generally, anti-town events move the stress towards Tragic Destiny.
My power moved it 2 towards Tragic Destiny.
Generally, pro-town events move the stress towards Slice of Life.
My power didn't function that way.
Negative stress is tragic destiny, isn't it?
I was under that impression.

(I'm going to do the thing you're scumreading me for yay!)

Negative stress means LESS stress which means town is not stressed which means Slice of Life.

Positive stress means MORE stress which means town is extra stressed which means Tragic Destiny.

(See Varsoon. I totally told you that was confusing and needed clarification)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

He can guarantee either me you or Yume survives the first NK against us through a public event. Yeah, I said it. Rr will probably hate me for it. Yes, that is worth letting live until he has to trigger it.

I rest my case.
That's a scum power.

I guarantee you, it's a scum power.

yes, and it's one we can lynch...

tomorrow

It might not work tomorrow. It's triggered by stress. So if we lynch scum RR gets a reprieve.

Holy shit Titus.

Stop fucking talking about my event.

I don't need your help to not get lynched. I appreciate the strength of your town read, but seriously, you KNOW I hate fucking exposing role details for no fucking reason, and an empty case propelled ENTIRELY by mastins certainty in her own reads is NOT a reason.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, sorry, I should have told you this in the PT, that was shitty of me, but I'm really irritated that right now I need to talk to Drixx about whether or not we should just go all out and discuss the rest of the events effects.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ftr I've been chatting in the joy ride with Sue cakez more and I don't see him as scum

Would lynch Shiro, rr, snarky, grapes (I know this is odd but it's tries hard and from what I remember of grapes he doesn't make bad pushes) and some player that I'm missing in my leaning scum category of random and dgb (yes dgb does bus as scum)

Wow...practically the only thing I agree with here is that DGB busses as scum.

Mystical Cakey townread come on.

You have your mystical read on rr due to a pt.
Bite me.

No. My read isn't mystical or opportunistic, nor is my scum pool at least 75% town. You're basically disagreeing to disagree at this point Farside and trying to make me like you. I justify my statements. I try to work for town unity. You reads suddenly did a 180. You used to be near lock step but now you change. This is a pride thing. Come on.

My reads change based on what I'm reading in the game titus.
I know that maybe hard to understand but I see things differently and don't just focus on one person and nothing else with the same reads over and over.
Only when I'm sure of my scum read will you see me tunell.

No. They are changing based on who lets you get away with nonsense.
Cakey has not done one useful thing in public. RR you can track his thought progression. He's town or arrogant scum who thinks he can capture me. There's no other interpretation.
Again, you don't understand my process and nor do you care to if you think my reads are static.
I have played the most games of anyone here on MS most likely. That means I have fuck ups.
The biggest downside to me is as I am only as good as the information I get. By calling me crazy and discrediting me, you make me fight for respect that naturally comes from being town.

Show where rr has stated progressive thoughts about players in this game.

I'm pretty sure you can't, but that's not what she said. She said you can track my thought progression, NOT that I've displayed a clear READS progression.

Two different things, semantics, blah blah. Also, DnD is finally over Titus! I'll be around for like, 2.5 hours at least if anyone wants me to respond thoroughly to anything, in the meanwhile I'll be ISO'ing SC and (maybe, since Titus tells me not to bother and I'd rather not deal with mafia when I could be resting so I can go out tonight) McMenno. That's the plan for now at least.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

43: Generic questioning response to an early game mason claim from farside.
55: accuses McMenno of fishing...while quoting a post from grapes. Need to look at context, not sure what he's saying about McMenno.
64: Reiterates the fishing thing.
126: accuses McMenno of fencesitting for...not having a definite position on the mason pairs idea? Not sure. SC, explain why you were calling him a fencesitter here?
355: Wants to ally with Almost, *wanted* to ally with mastin. Question FB's (admittedly questionable) statement that mastin was both probtown *and* in his lynch pool.
441: McMenno and kraska are in SC's scum pool. Why was McMenno there SC? Because of the "fence-sitting" that doesn't even make sense to me? kraska's 438 is also sorta a weak reason to scumread someone, because it really isn't a reason. Elaborate.
599: reiterates that McMenno and kraska are scum, calls OWK scummy, asks kraska to explain his town read on McMenno, lists reads: Town: NC, mastin, grapes, farside. Scum: McMenno, kraska, OWK; unreadable: RR
604: An explanation for the McMenno scumread. He was "fishing", and had awkward reactions. Gonna go look at that fishing context thing now. Okay. Umm. in 47 McMenno asks Beeboy and Cakez for their flavor. That's umm. IDK, sorta the most blatant fishing type post anyone could ever make...like, so blatant it's OBVIOUSLY a joke. So, officially a shitty reason to scumread him. Noted. NC townreads are blatant newbtown? WTF does that even mean?
605: Questions mastin on the contradiction of believing the mason claims, while having SC and obi in her scumreads. Reasonable question.
607: Continues calling OWK, but clarifies that it's for the phrasing of their reach out to our slot for assistance, rather than because of the reach out itself.
610: Clarifis that NC is newbtown for, specificaly, apologizing over little things, analyzing game mechanics, and being very open about their reads.


Cutting this short here, got invited to something, but so far the SC/McMenno interaction focus is making sense now, and SC looks, well, terrible. All the reads are given for quite facile reasons, or even flawed reasons. The questions he asks are decent onesish, but...yeah. As of post 610, null-scum by play, but I don't see any outright *scummy* things he's done.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

43: Generic questioning response to an early game mason claim from farside.
55: accuses McMenno of fishing...while quoting a post from grapes. Need to look at context, not sure what he's saying about McMenno.
64: Reiterates the fishing thing.
126: accuses McMenno of fencesitting for...not having a definite position on the mason pairs idea? Not sure. SC, explain why you were calling him a fencesitter here?
355: Wants to ally with Almost, *wanted* to ally with mastin. Question FB's (admittedly questionable) statement that mastin was both probtown *and* in his lynch pool.
441: McMenno and kraska are in SC's scum pool. Why was McMenno there SC? Because of the "fence-sitting" that doesn't even make sense to me? kraska's 438 is also sorta a weak reason to scumread someone, because it really isn't a reason. Elaborate.
599: reiterates that McMenno and kraska are scum, calls OWK scummy, asks kraska to explain his town read on McMenno, lists reads: Town: NC, mastin, grapes, farside. Scum: McMenno, kraska, OWK; unreadable: RR
604: An explanation for the McMenno scumread. He was "fishing", and had awkward reactions. Gonna go look at that fishing context thing now. Okay. Umm. in 47 McMenno asks Beeboy and Cakez for their flavor. That's umm. IDK, sorta the most blatant fishing type post anyone could ever make...like, so blatant it's OBVIOUSLY a joke. So, officially a shitty reason to scumread him. Noted. NC townreads are blatant newbtown? WTF does that even mean?
605: Questions mastin on the contradiction of believing the mason claims, while having SC and obi in her scumreads. Reasonable question.
607: Continues calling OWK, but clarifies that it's for the phrasing of their reach out to our slot for assistance, rather than because of the reach out itself.
610: Clarifis that NC is newbtown for, specificaly, apologizing over little things, analyzing game mechanics, and being very open about their reads.


Cutting this short here, got invited to something, but so far the SC/McMenno interaction focus is making sense now, and SC looks, well, terrible. All the reads are given for quite facile reasons, or even flawed reasons. The questions he asks are decent onesish, but...yeah. As of post 610, null-scum by play, but I don't see any outright *scummy* things he's done.

-Cerb

Forgot to link the posts.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

43: Generic questioning response to an early game mason claim from farside.
55: accuses McMenno of fishing...while quoting a post from grapes. Need to look at context, not sure what he's saying about McMenno.
64: Reiterates the fishing thing.
126: accuses McMenno of fencesitting for...not having a definite position on the mason pairs idea? Not sure. SC, explain why you were calling him a fencesitter here?
355: Wants to ally with Almost, *wanted* to ally with mastin. Question FB's (admittedly questionable) statement that mastin was both probtown *and* in his lynch pool.
441: McMenno and kraska are in SC's scum pool. Why was McMenno there SC? Because of the "fence-sitting" that doesn't even make sense to me? kraska's 438 is also sorta a weak reason to scumread someone, because it really isn't a reason. Elaborate.
599: reiterates that McMenno and kraska are scum, calls OWK scummy, asks kraska to explain his town read on McMenno, lists reads: Town: NC, mastin, grapes, farside. Scum: McMenno, kraska, OWK; unreadable: RR
604: An explanation for the McMenno scumread. He was "fishing", and had awkward reactions. Gonna go look at that fishing context thing now. Okay. Umm. in 47 McMenno asks Beeboy and Cakez for their flavor. That's umm. IDK, sorta the most blatant fishing type post anyone could ever make...like, so blatant it's OBVIOUSLY a joke. So, officially a shitty reason to scumread him. Noted. NC townreads are blatant newbtown? WTF does that even mean?
605: Questions mastin on the contradiction of believing the mason claims, while having SC and obi in her scumreads. Reasonable question.
607: Continues calling OWK, but clarifies that it's for the phrasing of their reach out to our slot for assistance, rather than because of the reach out itself.
610: Clarifis that NC is newbtown for, specificaly, apologizing over little things, analyzing game mechanics, and being very open about their reads.


Cutting this short here, got invited to something, but so far the SC/McMenno interaction focus is making sense now, and SC looks, well, terrible. All the reads are given for quite facile reasons, or even flawed reasons. The questions he asks are decent onesish, but...yeah. As of post 610, null-scum by play, but I don't see any outright *scummy* things he's done.

-Cerb

Forgot to link the posts.

-Cerb

Lol, fuck, that's what I get for not finishing up my ISO read. This is me looking at SC's ISO, in case it wasn't clear to anyone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

You don't get to tell someone "Link me to a game where you were at least 75% correct on scumreads" and then say "that doesn't count" when she links to a game where she was ONE HUNDRED PERCENT correct. She ran a gambit and literally had the entire scum team correctly identified on day one. Her scum pool consisted of ONLY scum and the 2 person mason team which included me so of course she was scum reading me because that's pretty much what Titus does.

Want to see a clinic on how to identify other town, synergize abilities and snare a scum team? Go read Suikoden Mafia.

~Drixx

PS - And really it's irrelevant if that was LQs first scum game. That doesn't have anything to do with Titus getting literally every single member of the scum team right on day one.

[Reasonably Rational]

MAGENTA WOLF

declares that he will decide the lynch for today, and he currently believes he wants to lynch Mastin.

Anyone who disagrees with him is scum. Anyone who doesn't vote with him is stupid. Anyone who isn't him isn't a GOD.

Have you actually read everything that's been posted kts?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

MAGENTA WOLF

wants to know why Mastin is confirmed town.

MAGENTA WOLF

also wants to tell you that dumb doesn't equal alignment or else he'd be voting you right now.

mastin2 is confirmed town. That is all.

Yume went on to clarify that mastin created a pt with her(outside of the bounds of the normal alliance system) and in this PT mastin received mod confirmation that she is town.

The only way mastin is *not* town in a non-bastard game is if Yume is also scum with her.

It's exactly as likely that that happened as that you, as scum, are fake claiming IC in a game from a mod with a known meta of placing IC's in his games.

So, with that said...mastin is town. You are town. Yume is town.

So, again, have you been reading the game? Have you done so thoroughly? Do you have anything to offer besides attacks on nearly conftown slots?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

An ability in the game has confirmed that Farside22 is NOT in a Masonry with Firebringer.
The Stress has increased by 1, towards 'Tragic Destiny'. The current stress is +1.

i was looking through the votecounts and remembered this.

Varsoon said

generally

, anti-town abilities and events increase the stress.
it's still a waste of an ability. but could it have been from mafia trying to determine if the masronry was real?
there was talk about a town lie detector, and i didn't bother checking to see if there might be a mafia one.

there's new content i will be checking now. but i came across this and thought i should bring it up.

A critical distinction needs to be made here. We don't know if Varsoon meant "events controlled by anti-town elements do x" OR "events which would generally perceived to be anti-town do X"

I believe he said all scum have access to pro-town events or something along those lines, which would seem to mean the second interpretation is accurate, that if the net effect of the event is detrimental to town, regardless of the alignment of the slot utilizing it, stress will increase, and vice versa.

Gonna go finish up the SC ISO.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

MAGENTA WOLF

wants to know why Mastin is confirmed town.

MAGENTA WOLF

also wants to tell you that dumb doesn't equal alignment or else he'd be voting you right now.

mastin2 is confirmed town. That is all.

Yume went on to clarify that mastin created a pt with her(outside of the bounds of the normal alliance system) and in this PT

Yume

received mod confirmation that

mastin

is town.

The only way mastin is *not* town in a non-bastard game is if Yume is also scum with her.

It's exactly as likely that that happened as that you, as scum, are fake claiming IC in a game from a mod with a known meta of placing IC's in his games.

So, with that said...mastin is town. You are town. Yume is town.

So, again, have you been reading the game? Have you done so thoroughly? Do you have anything to offer besides attacks on nearly conftown slots?

-Cerb

EBWOP

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

how do you feel about Skybird rr

I have absolutely no feelings about Skybird at all, which is basically how I always feel about her posting.

I'll look at her ISO after I finish SC's, but she's generally fairly low impact on the game so I rarely actually ISO dive her.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, kts, can we please get the kts who existed in SD2, the one who showed up and made a post of concrete reads with good reasons etc as the last post before the day ended and you got NK'd? I don't want the early game kts, that guy sucked.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Spoiler: SC ISO wall

43: Generic questioning response to an early game mason claim from farside.
55: accuses McMenno of fishing...while quoting a post from grapes. Need to look at context, not sure what he's saying about McMenno.
64: Reiterates the fishing thing.
126: accuses McMenno of fencesitting for...not having a definite position on the mason pairs idea? Not sure. SC, explain why you were calling him a fencesitter here?
355: Wants to ally with Almost, *wanted* to ally with mastin. Question FB's (admittedly questionable) statement that mastin was both probtown *and* in his lynch pool.
441: McMenno and kraska are in SC's scum pool. Why was McMenno there SC? Because of the "fence-sitting" that doesn't even make sense to me? kraska's 438 is also sorta a weak reason to scumread someone, because it really isn't a reason. Elaborate.
599: reiterates that McMenno and kraska are scum, calls OWK scummy, asks kraska to explain his town read on McMenno, lists reads: Town: NC, mastin, grapes, farside. Scum: McMenno, kraska, OWK; unreadable: RR
604: An explanation for the McMenno scumread. He was "fishing", and had awkward reactions. Gonna go look at that fishing context thing now. Okay. Umm. in 47 McMenno asks Beeboy and Cakez for their flavor. That's umm. IDK, sorta the most blatant fishing type post anyone could ever make...like, so blatant it's OBVIOUSLY a joke. So, officially a shitty reason to scumread him. Noted. NC townreads are blatant newbtown? WTF does that even mean?
605: Questions mastin on the contradiction of believing the mason claims, while having SC and obi in her scumreads. Reasonable question.
607: Continues calling OWK, but clarifies that it's for the phrasing of their reach out to our slot for assistance, rather than because of the reach out itself.
610: Clarifis that NC is newbtown for, specificaly, apologizing over little things, analyzing game mechanics, and being very open about their reads.


Cutting this short here, got invited to something, but so far the SC/McMenno interaction focus is making sense now, and SC looks, well, terrible. All the reads are given for quite facile reasons, or even flawed reasons. The questions he asks are decent onesish, but...yeah. As of post 610, null-scum by play, but I don't see any outright *scummy* things he's done.

-Cerb

Forgot to link the posts.

-Cerb

Picking up where I left off.

680: Likes kraskas response to his earlier question.
934: Votes OWK, questions creature votes from OWK and XKFYU, as well as Snarky's vote on Farside, and asks Snarky for clarification regarding his 754 explaining the farside scum read.
941: Creature town read, mastin townread reiterated,questions kts' IC claim.
943: Updated reads! Town: Fire, NC, mastin, grapes, farside; nulltown:Yume, creature, KC, A50, CoolDog; Null: kraska, KTS, Foxbird, Skybird, Seraphim, Random, TWIE, Shiro, DGB; Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky; Scum: McMenno, OWK; RR=still special and unreadable.

Can you explain any of the reasoning beyond the new names that became readable between your 599 and 943? Any posts in particular? Namely, Yume, KC, A50, Cooldog, FB as town? I can see the progression and reasons for the other reads, but those ones came from nowhere...I would assume the Yume one came from the whole mastin situation...but your next post you're not sure about the details of the relationship between yume and mastin.
1052: This...is bad. Like, really fucking bad. Creature, in 967, calls SC out for WK'ing him, but leaving him as null...and SC says he fucked up and left him as null in spite of liking the posts Creature made on page 32...so Creature can be null town.

But...creature was already null town. Like, 100% null town. Just look at 943. So, just a few posts later/the next morning, and SC forgot what his stated read on Creature was? Seems unlikely, constructed read.

1391: And now here NC, in 1057 points out that same fuck up I just noticed. SC just handwaves it away? First thought was that NC/SC can't be on the same team, second thought is that potentially they *are* scum together, depending on whether NC just accepted that shitty response or if he pushed more. Admits that he hasn't been doing anything, and will "try harder". Okay. Sure. Calls all of McMennos posting fluff and pointless, and defends OWK scumread by referencing Creatures 1122, calling all their scumreads "lurkers and lynchbait." SC, you've played with Titus before. She's played with a number of other players here, and, I daresay, has a certain degree of respect for their skill. Do you SERIOUSLY think scum!Titus would EVER construct a fake scum reads list that's ALL lynchbait? Good follow up on snarky ignoring his earlier request for more details regarding his farside scumread. Not sure what he menas by the end of this post, aimed at farside22.

SC, were you saying that it felt like the farside22 townread on you was pretty flimsy, or that her reasons for changing her read on you were pretty flimsy?

1394: Asks grapes to explain the obvscum read on NC, calls NC's 1188 [post=bad ]bad [/post]and says he feels its grapes vote is to dissuade him from pushing it, NOT because it actually believes he's scum. Parrots everyones praise for Seraphims 1189, and agrees with al the content except for their read on him! Moves Sera to nulltown, Sera's post that he agreed with called farside town, snarky null, SC/Menno as scum, and don't understand why NC is being viewed as scum.

This is in the *same* post where he points out a bad post from NC, but he agrees with Seraphis about not understanding where the NC scum reads are coming from? Moments later grapes 1233 about NC's 1177 convinces him to move NC to nullscum, combined with the post he quoted earlier and his read on the people pushing NC. This is really realy weird to read all together in one post. I have no idea if it's genuine or what. :-/

Somehow doesn't understand that grapes is asking him to ally because grapes just had the fact that his role has a negative effect on his allies exposed, so he's clearly seeing if any of his scumreads are willing to sacrifice whatever benefit they get for allying. Again...this is in the same post where he quoted NC's 1188 outing that particular power. How do you forget that so quickly?

1400: Calles NC's 1303 "outright false", and had some other thought about it that he didn't finish stating. Shows that he's REALLY not paying attention again by noting that NC wouldn't ally with grapes again, even though grapes already made it clear that he could force his allies to remain allied to them. Softs some sort of alliance benefit that A50 would be aware of, calls RR null, and doesn't want to vote NC because OWK is pushing them, doesn't like to bus, and is a stronger scumread than NC. Calls OWK's 1383 a "weak" readslist, and pedits in a postive response to NC's post immediately prior.

1403: Yume is pure town on the basis of mastins conection, Sera is nulltown for the previously mentioned post, NC is up to null(though he says down, even though the last time he had a read on NC he put it as nullscum) on the basis of OWK associatives and it's most recent post. Cooldog down to null for avoidance of real points of contention, and because he doesn't know where the null town read came(SC, why wouldn't this make Cooldog nullscum? If you don't have a reason for the townread, and are suspicious enough of something to downgrade your read on him...then you should downgrade from the position he should have been at originally, right? Reads as potentially attempting to create an artificial, smooth gradient, instead of just putting CoolDog as nullscum, where SC's commentary on the slot makes it seem like he should be. Still doesn't buy KTS's IC claim. Scumreads stay the same.

1413: FB is obvtown. Some clarification please SC? This is a much stronger statement than you've made about other townread slots, but you've given NO reason for the read so far. Doesn't want to lynch NC because it would be an info lynch more than a strong scumread lynch.

1440: Moves votes to McMenno, OWK's defense of McMenno makes him feel better, and SC apparently now understands grapes' NC scumread.

1465: calls mastin confbiased for her McMenno defense. Valid point about OWK's scumread on him accelerating drastically.

1474: More of this allying benefit soft claiming, wants to ally with Mastin.

1479: Follow up for 1465.

1484: more SC v OWK.

1487: Feels NC is scumreading grapes for his read on NC, rather than his play. Asks for details regarding said scumread.

1490: more elaboration about the answer to 1487 requested.
1494: Valid point. OWK really isn't the optimal slot to attack when attempting to mess with a wagon, unless part of the goal is to create a high volume of posts.

1497/1506: More discussion about 1494.

1514: Finds NC's account of their PT with grapes convincing but wants grapes response.

1578: Back to the 1494 stuff. OWK says grapes and A50 are worse options to attack than them, SC disagrees and says why, etc. NC is now pure town? What? After that post, you said grapes no longer had to explain their scumread on the slot? What was that post saying then, if not that you understood and agreed with the scumread? They were null null last time you mentioned them. This doesn't follow.

1582: References 1398 by NC as the reason for the townread on it.

1847: After comparing NC's and grapes accounts, believes their conflict kis TVT, they developed independent scumreads on one another simultaneously, and are now biased. Finally drops the ridiculous back and forth stemming from 1494. Agrees with grapes 1658 that scum were bussing. SC, which scum were bussing who at this exact moment?

1848: developing new scumreads that need to be shared with the alliance PT first. PT members, can you confirm that around this time SC did indeed have a conversation started about something previously unmentioned in the main thread?

1856: Reiterates the couple causes for the NC townread at Skybirds prompting.

1927: I actually agree that grapes comment that SC's position regarding NC vs grapes doesn't make sense is nonsensical itself. Asks if anyone ese wants to weigh in on the grapes/nc PT summary.

2307: Shiro gives him bad vibes for jumping in on A50, because that's who he would have gone after if he were attempting to chainsaw NC. Reasonable point. Calls OWK's post BS for ignoring his explicitly stated townread on NC. Suspicious of Foxbird, calls them "scum coasting".

2327: Accuses OWK of making things up to push his mislynch. Pretty sure they're not actually making things up, they may just be remembering that certain people have expressed a willingness to vote for you. Reveals that one of his scumreads is RR, for the same reasons mastin gives...but also insists that mastins reasons for pushing him, which are identical, are inaccurate. Calls McMenno opportunistic scum for jumping on the SC wagon.

2334: Calls the first half of my iso check on him "awful" and a "reaction to being called out", and calls my reasons garbage.I'll address this: First of all, you realize there's actually no productive way to respond to someone accusing you of not doing any scumhunting? If you go scumhunt, then people(like yourself) will accuse you of doing it "just because you were called out", and if you don't go scumhunt, then you're not actually working towards your win con. Therefore, you should just go scumhunt and actually accomplish something. Sooooooo there's nothing actually "awful" about it. It *should be viewed as NAI.

Now, about your complaints regarding my null-scum read: The things you're pointing out aren't even the actual reasons why I hit upon you as null-scum? It's the depth, or lack thereof, of your analysis in those early posts. The things you pointed out are basically items where I wanted more information from you regarding why you said what you said at that time. You and I disagree on the likelihood of McMenno!scum just...blatantly rolefishing...okay. Not relevant, because it's STILL a shallow reason to have developed the scum read. More accusations of misrepresentation by OWK, followed by a vote moving back to them. Claims to have had NC as a nullscum read for only a very short amount of time, and to have been a townread for the rest of the game. This isn't completely true. From my read through, NC was mostly null to nullscum prior to 1398, and then became town read. I still want to know why you told grapes to not bother with telling you why he thought NC was scum. That, and the way that read came together where NC became nullscum is the most insincere part of that progress and requires more explanation.

2335: New reads. Town: Fire, mastin, farside, Yume;Nulltown: Creature, A50, Seraphim, NC, grapes, Seraphim;Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Skybird, Random, TWIE, DGB, CoolDog, Klingon;Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky, Shiro, Foxbird;Scum: McMenno, Obi, Reasonably Rational

Why did grapes move down to nulltown? I thought NC vs Grapes was a TvT? Why is NC *only* a nulltown read, you've expressed a MUCH stronger stance on the slot than that.

2340: more updated reads! Cooldog to nullscum(LOOK! the smooth fake progression of the read that I pointed out and predicted would hapen above!), KC to nullscum(why? In your own words, you've said nothing about KC, sooooooo?), snarky goes up to null(Why????? they haven't even ben around, and you're still saying nothing about them) xkfyu to scum(Why??? Because of lack of content?) and kraska to nulltown(again...why?).

TL;DR: Fake reads on creature and CoolDog, lack of depth to early posting(though it did get better later on), contradictory and confusing stance on NC, a decent bit of unexplained and unprompted changing of reads towards the end. No slots he's suspicious of by virtue of his own analysis other than OWK and McMenno, and the OWK case is...sketchy, while the McMenno one is entirely static. He's not gathering further evidence to push towards that lynch and he seems to have just completely fallen off SC's radar other than making sure to include him in his reads lists. I would appreciate answers to all the questions scattered throughout SC. Thanks!

Skybird coming up next kts.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Spoiler: SC ISO wall

43: Generic questioning response to an early game mason claim from farside.
55: accuses McMenno of fishing...while quoting a post from grapes. Need to look at context, not sure what he's saying about McMenno.
64: Reiterates the fishing thing.
126: accuses McMenno of fencesitting for...not having a definite position on the mason pairs idea? Not sure. SC, explain why you were calling him a fencesitter here?
355: Wants to ally with Almost, *wanted* to ally with mastin. Question FB's (admittedly questionable) statement that mastin was both probtown *and* in his lynch pool.
441: McMenno and kraska are in SC's scum pool. Why was McMenno there SC? Because of the "fence-sitting" that doesn't even make sense to me? kraska's 438 is also sorta a weak reason to scumread someone, because it really isn't a reason. Elaborate.
599: reiterates that McMenno and kraska are scum, calls OWK scummy, asks kraska to explain his town read on McMenno, lists reads: Town: NC, mastin, grapes, farside. Scum: McMenno, kraska, OWK; unreadable: RR
604: An explanation for the McMenno scumread. He was "fishing", and had awkward reactions. Gonna go look at that fishing context thing now. Okay. Umm. in 47 McMenno asks Beeboy and Cakez for their flavor. That's umm. IDK, sorta the most blatant fishing type post anyone could ever make...like, so blatant it's OBVIOUSLY a joke. So, officially a shitty reason to scumread him. Noted. NC townreads are blatant newbtown? WTF does that even mean?
605: Questions mastin on the contradiction of believing the mason claims, while having SC and obi in her scumreads. Reasonable question.
607: Continues calling OWK, but clarifies that it's for the phrasing of their reach out to our slot for assistance, rather than because of the reach out itself.
610: Clarifis that NC is newbtown for, specificaly, apologizing over little things, analyzing game mechanics, and being very open about their reads.


Cutting this short here, got invited to something, but so far the SC/McMenno interaction focus is making sense now, and SC looks, well, terrible. All the reads are given for quite facile reasons, or even flawed reasons. The questions he asks are decent onesish, but...yeah. As of post 610, null-scum by play, but I don't see any outright *scummy* things he's done.

-Cerb

Forgot to link the posts.

-Cerb

Picking up where I left off.

680: Likes kraskas response to his earlier question.
934: Votes OWK, questions creature votes from OWK and XKFYU, as well as Snarky's vote on Farside, and asks Snarky for clarification regarding his 754 explaining the farside scum read.
941: Creature town read, mastin townread reiterated,questions kts' IC claim.
943: Updated reads! Town: Fire, NC, mastin, grapes, farside; nulltown:Yume, creature, KC, A50, CoolDog; Null: kraska, KTS, Foxbird, Skybird, Seraphim, Random, TWIE, Shiro, DGB; Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky; Scum: McMenno, OWK; RR=still special and unreadable.

Can you explain any of the reasoning beyond the new names that became readable between your 599 and 943? Any posts in particular? Namely, Yume, KC, A50, Cooldog, FB as town? I can see the progression and reasons for the other reads, but those ones came from nowhere...I would assume the Yume one came from the whole mastin situation...but your next post you're not sure about the details of the relationship between yume and mastin.
1052: This...is bad. Like, really fucking bad. Creature, in 967, calls SC out for WK'ing him, but leaving him as null...and SC says he fucked up and left him as null in spite of liking the posts Creature made on page 32...so Creature can be null town.

But...creature was already null town. Like, 100% null town. Just look at 943. So, just a few posts later/the next morning, and SC forgot what his stated read on Creature was? Seems unlikely, constructed read.

1391: And now here NC, in 1057 points out that same fuck up I just noticed. SC just handwaves it away? First thought was that NC/SC can't be on the same team, second thought is that potentially they *are* scum together, depending on whether NC just accepted that shitty response or if he pushed more. Admits that he hasn't been doing anything, and will "try harder". Okay. Sure. Calls all of McMennos posting fluff and pointless, and defends OWK scumread by referencing Creatures 1122, calling all their scumreads "lurkers and lynchbait." SC, you've played with Titus before. She's played with a number of other players here, and, I daresay, has a certain degree of respect for their skill. Do you SERIOUSLY think scum!Titus would EVER construct a fake scum reads list that's ALL lynchbait? Good follow up on snarky ignoring his earlier request for more details regarding his farside scumread. Not sure what he menas by the end of this post, aimed at farside22.

SC, were you saying that it felt like the farside22 townread on you was pretty flimsy, or that her reasons for changing her read on you were pretty flimsy?

1394: Asks grapes to explain the obvscum read on NC, calls NC's 1188 [post=bad ]bad [/post]and says he feels its grapes vote is to dissuade him from pushing it, NOT because it actually believes he's scum. Parrots everyones praise for Seraphims 1189, and agrees with al the content except for their read on him! Moves Sera to nulltown, Sera's post that he agreed with called farside town, snarky null, SC/Menno as scum, and don't understand why NC is being viewed as scum.

This is in the *same* post where he points out a bad post from NC, but he agrees with Seraphis about not understanding where the NC scum reads are coming from? Moments later grapes 1233 about NC's 1177 convinces him to move NC to nullscum, combined with the post he quoted earlier and his read on the people pushing NC. This is really realy weird to read all together in one post. I have no idea if it's genuine or what. :-/

Somehow doesn't understand that grapes is asking him to ally because grapes just had the fact that his role has a negative effect on his allies exposed, so he's clearly seeing if any of his scumreads are willing to sacrifice whatever benefit they get for allying. Again...this is in the same post where he quoted NC's 1188 outing that particular power. How do you forget that so quickly?

1400: Calles NC's 1303 "outright false", and had some other thought about it that he didn't finish stating. Shows that he's REALLY not paying attention again by noting that NC wouldn't ally with grapes again, even though grapes already made it clear that he could force his allies to remain allied to them. Softs some sort of alliance benefit that A50 would be aware of, calls RR null, and doesn't want to vote NC because OWK is pushing them, doesn't like to bus, and is a stronger scumread than NC. Calls OWK's 1383 a "weak" readslist, and pedits in a postive response to NC's post immediately prior.

1403: Yume is pure town on the basis of mastins conection, Sera is nulltown for the previously mentioned post, NC is up to null(though he says down, even though the last time he had a read on NC he put it as nullscum) on the basis of OWK associatives and it's most recent post. Cooldog down to null for avoidance of real points of contention, and because he doesn't know where the null town read came(SC, why wouldn't this make Cooldog nullscum? If you don't have a reason for the townread, and are suspicious enough of something to downgrade your read on him...then you should downgrade from the position he should have been at originally, right? Reads as potentially attempting to create an artificial, smooth gradient, instead of just putting CoolDog as nullscum, where SC's commentary on the slot makes it seem like he should be. Still doesn't buy KTS's IC claim. Scumreads stay the same.

1413: FB is obvtown. Some clarification please SC? This is a much stronger statement than you've made about other townread slots, but you've given NO reason for the read so far. Doesn't want to lynch NC because it would be an info lynch more than a strong scumread lynch.

1440: Moves votes to McMenno, OWK's defense of McMenno makes him feel better, and SC apparently now understands grapes' NC scumread.

1465: calls mastin confbiased for her McMenno defense. Valid point about OWK's scumread on him accelerating drastically.

1474: More of this allying benefit soft claiming, wants to ally with Mastin.

1479: Follow up for 1465.

1484: more SC v OWK.

1487: Feels NC is scumreading grapes for his read on NC, rather than his play. Asks for details regarding said scumread.

1490: more elaboration about the answer to 1487 requested.
1494: Valid point. OWK really isn't the optimal slot to attack when attempting to mess with a wagon, unless part of the goal is to create a high volume of posts.

1497/1506: More discussion about 1494.

1514: Finds NC's account of their PT with grapes convincing but wants grapes response.

1578: Back to the 1494 stuff. OWK says grapes and A50 are worse options to attack than them, SC disagrees and says why, etc. NC is now pure town? What? After that post, you said grapes no longer had to explain their scumread on the slot? What was that post saying then, if not that you understood and agreed with the scumread? They were null null last time you mentioned them. This doesn't follow.

1582: References 1398 by NC as the reason for the townread on it.

1847: After comparing NC's and grapes accounts, believes their conflict kis TVT, they developed independent scumreads on one another simultaneously, and are now biased. Finally drops the ridiculous back and forth stemming from 1494. Agrees with grapes 1658 that scum were bussing. SC, which scum were bussing who at this exact moment?

1848: developing new scumreads that need to be shared with the alliance PT first. PT members, can you confirm that around this time SC did indeed have a conversation started about something previously unmentioned in the main thread?

1856: Reiterates the couple causes for the NC townread at Skybirds prompting.

1927: I actually agree that grapes comment that SC's position regarding NC vs grapes doesn't make sense is nonsensical itself. Asks if anyone ese wants to weigh in on the grapes/nc PT summary.

2307: Shiro gives him bad vibes for jumping in on A50, because that's who he would have gone after if he were attempting to chainsaw NC. Reasonable point. Calls OWK's post BS for ignoring his explicitly stated townread on NC. Suspicious of Foxbird, calls them "scum coasting".

2327: Accuses OWK of making things up to push his mislynch. Pretty sure they're not actually making things up, they may just be remembering that certain people have expressed a willingness to vote for you. Reveals that one of his scumreads is RR, for the same reasons mastin gives...but also insists that mastins reasons for pushing him, which are identical, are inaccurate. Calls McMenno opportunistic scum for jumping on the SC wagon.

2334: Calls the first half of my iso check on him "awful" and a "reaction to being called out", and calls my reasons garbage.I'll address this: First of all, you realize there's actually no productive way to respond to someone accusing you of not doing any scumhunting? If you go scumhunt, then people(like yourself) will accuse you of doing it "just because you were called out", and if you don't go scumhunt, then you're not actually working towards your win con. Therefore, you should just go scumhunt and actually accomplish something. Sooooooo there's nothing actually "awful" about it. It *should be viewed as NAI.

Now, about your complaints regarding my null-scum read: The things you're pointing out aren't even the actual reasons why I hit upon you as null-scum? It's the depth, or lack thereof, of your analysis in those early posts. The things you pointed out are basically items where I wanted more information from you regarding why you said what you said at that time. You and I disagree on the likelihood of McMenno!scum just...blatantly rolefishing...okay. Not relevant, because it's STILL a shallow reason to have developed the scum read. More accusations of misrepresentation by OWK, followed by a vote moving back to them. Claims to have had NC as a nullscum read for only a very short amount of time, and to have been a townread for the rest of the game. This isn't completely true. From my read through, NC was mostly null to nullscum prior to 1398, and then became town read. I still want to know why you told grapes to not bother with telling you why he thought NC was scum. That, and the way that read came together where NC became nullscum is the most insincere part of that progress and requires more explanation.

2335: New reads. Town: Fire, mastin, farside, Yume;Nulltown: Creature, A50, Seraphim, NC, grapes, Seraphim;Null: Kraskaesque, KTS, Skybird, Random, TWIE, DGB, CoolDog, Klingon;Nullscum: Xkfyu, Snarky, Shiro, Foxbird;Scum: McMenno, Obi, Reasonably Rational

Why did grapes move down to nulltown? I thought NC vs Grapes was a TvT? Why is NC *only* a nulltown read, you've expressed a MUCH stronger stance on the slot than that.

2340: more updated reads! Cooldog to nullscum(LOOK! the smooth fake progression of the read that I pointed out and predicted would hapen above!), KC to nullscum(why? In your own words, you've said nothing about KC, sooooooo?), snarky goes up to null(Why????? they haven't even ben around, and you're still saying nothing about them) xkfyu to scum(Why??? Because of lack of content?) and kraska to nulltown(again...why?).

TL;DR: Fake reads on creature and CoolDog, lack of depth to early posting(though it did get better later on), contradictory and confusing stance on NC, a decent bit of unexplained and unprompted changing of reads towards the end. No slots he's suspicious of by virtue of his own analysis other than OWK and McMenno, and the OWK case is...sketchy, while the McMenno one is entirely static. He's not gathering further evidence to push towards that lynch and he seems to have just completely fallen off SC's radar other than making sure to include him in his reads lists. I would appreciate answers to all the questions scattered throughout SC. Thanks!

Skybird coming up next kts.

-Cerb

Lapis is awesome and cute OwO

Agreed. I forgot to respond when you posted the pic of her, she's super adorable!

Also, I'm being lazy now because SCs iso took way too friggin long to go through, but I will do skybird before the end of today. Just too comfy in bed to go sit at the computer.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR Would you like to form a contract with her? You can do so my sharing your favorite line of hers.

Form a contract with her?

Umm. I'm not really sure what you mean?

Heres one my favorite quotes from her though! Context makes it funny though, by itself it's sorta bland.

"Thanks, but I'm not putting that on my body."
"Alone at Sea"

Also makes me chuckle!

"Yeah, I'm kinda taking a break from water right now, but thanks... for the lake"
"Barn Mates"

Best one is probably this though:

"I'm done being everyone's prisoner! Now you're MY prisoner! And I'm never letting you go!"Jail Break

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR There's a downside, though. She is a bit of a loner, so if you attempt to make contract when she doesn't want to, she'll reject it.

(Just having a bit of fun, ftr)

Lol. I always thought that was a little strange. She spent centuries trapped in a mirror, but doesn't really want to associate with people again after being forced to be alone for so long.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR There's a downside, though. She is a bit of a loner, so if you attempt to make contract when she doesn't want to, she'll reject it.

(Just having a bit of fun, ftr)

Lol. I always thought that was a little strange. She spent centuries trapped in a mirror, but doesn't really want to associate with people again after being forced to be alone for so long.

-Cerb

Lapis almost killed the whole planet earth, people forgave her way too easily.

Eh...she also devoted herself to trapping Jaspar in Malachite at the bottom of the ocean for as long as possible, AND kicked her ass when she showed up later on. Also, what are they going to do against a gem that can basically kick EVERYONES ass, except for Steven, when Steven likes her?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Skybird ISO

First three posts are fluff, then an ally request.

300: willing to ally with Yume.
318: Questions FB about having mastin who he townreads in his lynch pool. Tells him to leave Yume alone.
337: At Farsides suggestion, invites Foxbird to ally with her, responds to Drixx's confusion and shows willingness to ally with RR as well.
353: Asks CoolDog if he's read the thread and informs him of the ally state for mastin and RR.
445: FB responds to her 318 in 323, saying mastin is in his lynch pool for annoyance, and Skybird asks him what's annoying him.
578: Farside feels town to her.
673: RR null, KC and mastin town, CoolDog scum. What reasons did you have for the KC and CoolDog reads at this time?
1012: Calls Xkfyu's 716 "sucking up to OWK". Because they voted Creature? Because of the exact verbiage they used? Why exactly is this sucking up? Asks for an explanation of OWK's town read on CoolDog. Consistent with their scumread on him, but that read is still unexplained.
1018: MIsreads OWK's 1014 explaining their CoolDog read as feeling bad in their guts, without any evidence in thread(which is a weird conclusion to arrive at, sounds like the sort of thing that make someone null, not "might be town") as a read on FB, and asks if he's ballsy enough to be scum and call himself such all game.
1044: 1019 OWK clarifies that the answer previously was about CoolDog, Skybird agrees regarding the CoolDog read and reasoning, and calls it strange that CD asked mastin to ally after she said she was never going to ally with anyone.

Work in progress, gotta head to work now.

So far, nothing jumps out as particularly noteworthy though. I haven't seen any pressure from her on those she's suspicious of to sort these questions, but I believe that's pretty standard for her. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Skybird ISO

First three posts are fluff, then an ally request.

300: willing to ally with Yume.
318: Questions FB about having mastin who he townreads in his lynch pool. Tells him to leave Yume alone.
337: At Farsides suggestion, invites Foxbird to ally with her, responds to Drixx's confusion and shows willingness to ally with RR as well.
353: Asks CoolDog if he's read the thread and informs him of the ally state for mastin and RR.
445: FB responds to her 318 in 323, saying mastin is in his lynch pool for annoyance, and Skybird asks him what's annoying him.
578: Farside feels town to her.
673: RR null, KC and mastin town, CoolDog scum. What reasons did you have for the KC and CoolDog reads at this time?
1012: Calls Xkfyu's 716 "sucking up to OWK". Because they voted Creature? Because of the exact verbiage they used? Why exactly is this sucking up? Asks for an explanation of OWK's town read on CoolDog. Consistent with their scumread on him, but that read is still unexplained.
1018: MIsreads OWK's 1014 explaining their CoolDog read as feeling bad in their guts, without any evidence in thread(which is a weird conclusion to arrive at, sounds like the sort of thing that make someone null, not "might be town") as a read on FB, and asks if he's ballsy enough to be scum and call himself such all game.
1044: 1019 OWK clarifies that the answer previously was about CoolDog, Skybird agrees regarding the CoolDog read and reasoning, and calls it strange that CD asked mastin to ally after she said she was never going to ally with anyone.

Work in progress, gotta head to work now.

So far, nothing jumps out as particularly noteworthy though. I haven't seen any pressure from her on those she's suspicious of to sort these questions, but I believe that's pretty standard for her. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Actually, from my skim before I left for work, SC'S response to my pseudo-case on him from his ISO read as pretty genuine. I need to look at it in detail when I get home because there might be scummy shit in there that I didn't pick up on the skim, but it's not nearly as bad as his iso up to that point.

Question is really is this him doing damage control (similar to his "I'll try harder" line, or is it genuine. I'll have an answer to this question in approximately 10 hours. ;p

-Verb

[Reasonably Rational]

Don't worry, I'll revive it when I get home. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Got caught up. So this is silly and I have no idea what is wrong with you people. Cerberus I get because his bar for when he will vote for and push someone is calibrated way too high, especially on day one.

Cerberus basically deconstructed SirCakez and SC's resposne was to basically run up a white flag and surrender. This is as open and shut as it gets.

VOTE: SirCakez

Can some people please de-ass their heads?


@Mastin - I had an evisceration of you worked up in a draft, but I'm not going to post it. Instead I'm going to tell you that you're wrong about us and you need to re-assess. You yourself said that we rock when we're doing our thing (in reference to SU) and we're doing our thing. Cerb and I have already written a novel length amount in our discussions, and that's with him being more restricted in his new job and me dealing with a stage 2 decubitus Ulcer (Google at your own risk). You initially thought my push on Firebringer was bad or something (only reason I recall you ever giving for a read on us). Now go look at my day ones and you'll see me push people for things that catch my attention a lot. Sometimes they're town; sometimes they're not. The point is that it's

precisely

what I do, despite your assertion to the contrary. Furthermore, just

ISO Firebringer

for yourself ... I rest my case. Something's WAY off on that slot, and it hasn't gotten any better (apart from him dropping the nasty attacks, but I credit that to Varsoon's intervention).

I'm fairly confident given Cerb's work in making the case and the way SC responded to it that if we can get that lynch through he'll flip scum, and I think you had SC in your early scum pool, so good on you if we're both right. But you didn't give the rest of us any reason to follow you. Basically your entire ISO is your ego and you being snide or sarcastic or both, and I can only assume that's because you stumbled into being basically conftown; you don't behave like normally in my experience. None of it is what I would expect from an essentially confirmed town player of your caliber. You can do way better. There's no reason that you have wasted the day away with nonsense instead of giving people reason to believe you and follow you.

A few things you should consider:

1.) Titus reading me as town is tantamount to a verified miracle. This is like some Mother Theresa healed me of cancer level miraculous. She's told you repeatedly that she has really strong reasons. You should listen to her. She has seen a ton of stuff from us that you haven't (and you won't until post game unless we somehow end up conftowned and you ally us so we can talk safely).

2.) I'm working on the assumption that we've got scum in SC and just need to get enough people to read Cerb's case or just sheep us or you or both of us or whatever. That's going to lower stress more. We can't trigger our event (Beach-a-palooza) without stress being at +1 or higher. The only way we can pop it tonight is if we're wrong about SC and there is a town death and no scum deaths at night, in which case the event will trigger and you'll see the full details when exposition phase starts tomorrow. (We checked with Varsoon and we can attempt to trigger it and if the stress condition is not met it simply does't happen and we don't lose it).

3.) Read my ISO. Titus revealed what I believe to be the least useful thing about our event. I revealed what I believe to be the most useful thing. There's other things. I'm not going to elaborate for obvious reasons.


From where I sit (I haven't stood in decades; bad joke, I know), you're super confbiased when it comes to our slot. You seem to think that we (ME mostly, since Cerb was opposed to sharing info with Titus hydra at all) somehow hoodwinked Titus into believing we're town. That's a laughable supposition for many reasons, but whatever. As soon as we trigger our event, you'll see why we have been cryptic about it, and you'll also realize why it's a strong reason to believe we're town just for setup spec reasons. Add to that the fact that Titus told you she is town reading us because of our PLAY, and you should have enough to realize you need to reassess.

As far as I'm concerned, we will become obvtown and killed pretty quickly once we trigger our event because once it's obvious we're town, only a scum team holding idiot balls would leave us alive. I also expect that you're going to be protected (unless town protective roles are holding idiot balls), so you should be around and let's just say I have a hunch that you'll be on the receiving end of the cool thing our event does. At that point, if you somehow still haven't shaken yourself out of confbias, then God help us this game.

~Drixx, with love and chocolate chip cookies.


P.S. - I predict that if we get this wagon to actually go and if we're right and SC flips scum, Mastin will ignore the fact that it was Cerb who invested the time to actually make a case and force SC to respond with what can only be viewed as "I surrender" and brag and gloat. It's a shame, but I'm sure a bunch of you are nodding your heads because of past experience with Mastin. The biggest shame is that even though I'm saying this and I'm telling Mastin that she lucked into being conftown and doesn't HAVE to puff her ego up or anything but just freaking be a proper leader, she will ignore it and squander her stutus until scum kill her (Please review the stress mechanic if you don't realize why that could happen really easily).

[Reasonably Rational]

Stop trolling and do something useful Firebringer. Short of a day use investigative, have you

ever

seen a more obvious and solid scum case on day one?

I didn't think so.

Plz stop trolling. Kthxbye.

Love, Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

I think its strikingly weird you agree with the case on Cakez, when its made by Mastin who you already say you disagree with.

What makes them right about Cakez but wrong about you? You just say she is wrong about it. You don't contemplate a real thing that most town players do when a person reads them wrong. That the chance is that other of their reads are likely also wrong.

Mastin didn't make a case on sircakez. She said he's doing a vague thing, which she also accused our slot of doing(which we know to be an inaccurate portrayal of our play). I went through his iso and actually identified MULTIPLE suspicious things he was doing beyond her vague handwavey suspicions.

Also, how exactly are you privy to our private thoughts? Perhaps you don't know this, but the chance that she's wrong is the EXACT reason why I do the footwork myself to check whether or not someone's suspicions are justified instead of just sheeping people.

-Cerb

Pedit: we used that same flawed logic to lose SU 1(plus some other stuff, but that was what ultimately drove the lylo mislynch), except we had EVEN MORE REASON to think scum wouldn't possibly be given confirmation of Stevens identify than you do, and we were STILL wrong.

Don't be us. Don't close your mind to the possibility. Evaluate Skybirds play on its own merit.

[Reasonably Rational]

AND I said a lot more.

From my phone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yes.

Absolutely.

Do you see her linking to specific examples? Anything less than that is handwavey to me. I am quite rigorous in my standards for cases FB.

She merely describes her interpretation of the way he's approaching the game. It's meaningless mastin fluff, as far as actually JUSTIFYING something is concerned.

It only works on those already suspicious of the slot by putting words to their thoughts, but it does nothing to CONVINCE other people.

Cases need to convince people.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

This is a waste of time though. Drixx already predicted that nobody would care that I spent like an hour or two of my life going through SC'S crap, and here you are living up to those expectations.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought you guys scumread me?
Why do you care what I think of your SC case?

I never scumread you? Drixx pushed you because you were and are acting weird, just like beeboy is. I not especially suspicious of beeboy, and I'm also not especially suspicious of you. You're both worth watching BECAUSE of the abnormalities in your play style, but it's not something that means you're scum.

And, honestly, this head isn't even convinced SC is scum either (because of his response, mainly), but regardless of that, it's EXTREMELY irritating to put hours of my time into this game and have people be too stupid to understand my contributions.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Firebringer ... stop it. Mastin hasn't made an actual case against anyone. She declared that 4 people were scum and then has been a sarcastic prat for the rest of the day. Of course we disagree with her about her "read" on us, especially since she

lied to the game

to try and justify it. If you have a good reason to think someone is scum, you don't have to resort to LYING,

especially

if you happen to be part of an outed two way mod-confirmed mason claim and therefore are viewed as conftown. When you're in that position, you should be leading the town. Want to see an example? Check out the original SU game. We were Steven and Mastin's terrible day one declaration that she would be conftown on day 3 caused us to have to out ourselves to rescue her from the rope, after which point she disagreed on our scum reads as we proceeded to send scum to the rope one after another, until it got down to the final day and she just said nothing and didn't help at all.

That shit is there for you go to go look at. Mastin is a

considerably

better player than she has demonstrated so far this game (SU was an abnormaly low spot for her; in general, she's very strong). I'm more disappointed in her play than anything else, frankly.

You want to know why SirCakez is going to eat rope? Click our ISO and read Cerb's complete evisceration of his ISO and look at SC's responses. A couple of SCs posts since Cerb put up his case are among the worst posts I've ever seen in forum mafia. I would eat my underwear if SC flips town at this point. But it's not because of Mastin, and it's not because of me even. I told Cerb not to waste his time, but he saw something and did the work, and now there's an actual case and, more damningly, SC's responses. Cerb gets credit for everything but the vote and the only reason he doesn't get credit for that is because he has an absurdly high bar for voting. He uses the vote less than I do, which is saying something.

I don't know what to make you Fire. Your early play pinged me and I pushed but you didn't give any overt scum signals in our back and forth. You did regress a little bit back towards your usual troll nature, but apart from that ... something's off about you this game. Get your head in the game man. Right now you're just a distraction and that's not helpful in the least.

~Drixx

P-Edit: First, just LOL at Cerb and I crossposting. Second:

Posts like these make me think SC is TOWN. I don't care if his reads are accurate or not. It's the fact that he has a DYNAMIC read list that is moving rapidly with every update. To me; scum (and scum!SC to be precise) have an almost static read list and try to move 2-3 names at most just to make it look like they're doing something.

Yeah, bullshit.

SirCakez's reads are changing, yes, but they've changed to fit the pushes of other players. His reads are being tailored to fit the reads of most players: there's no "stick-out" reads. There's no reads that are stubborn defiance of all logic. All of his reads are convenient. All of his reads are easy. Now, that in of itself wouldn't make him scum! Some players just get beaten to the punch, and would have given those reads regardless. But that's just the thing:

SirCakez

isn't

pushing.
There's no aggression from him.
There's no real attempt to do anything beyond surface-level "scumhunting", to look good.
He is putting in just enough to put on a show. And nothing more. No hard, firm defenses, no hard, firm attacks, this in spite of him

agreeing with me

on RR about that, when he is guilty of it himself just as much if not MORE than RR. He's not bringing up his own reasons. He's just reflecting those of others. He's not adding. He's just restating.

No attempt to solve the game.
No attempt to unify the town.
No attempt to take control of the game.

He's content to sit in the background and let the town just go at it, largely as we have been, because we keep on arguing with each other and getting distracted by the shiny while also lacing venom into our words about one another.
If he were actually town, he'd be doing the same thing I am: planting his foot down and trying to get it to stop.

This was handwavey?

Yeah that's not really a case. That could be applied to at least half of the game right now. Even if it were a case, it came 43 posts after Cerb's complete evisceration of SC. That would mean that, if anything, Mastin came in with weaksauce to try and get credit after Cerb did the work.

And

that

, Firebringer, is why you should actually pay attention to the game. I'm not asking you to convert to our rationalist approach and put in the large amount of work. Cerb and I tag team it and we talk to each other so much during any given game that it generally comes out to something like 50,000 to 100,000 words, when you strip out timestamps and such. That's a LOT of effort. But at least put enough effort in to realize who actually made a real case, and who did it before whom.

Oh... and we

can

be wrong, despite the effort we put in. One needs only look at the original SU to see that pretty plainly. Of course... I'm pretty sure nobody blamed us for the decision we made. It's not like the player we decided to lynch had been at all helpful. In fact... his play, now that I think of it, seemed a lot like your play. Hrm...

~Drixx

P-edit: I apologize for Cerb calling people stupid. He's frustrated. He disagrees with me about SCs responses being caught scum responses. We try to keep our disagreements to ourselves (and whomever decides they want to read a novel consisting of us talking about a mafia game for months).

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought you guys scumread me?
Why do you care what I think of your SC case?

No. I said that you are behaving strangely. I also had a lengthy back and forth with you earlier in the game and you never gave any kind of scum signals and we talked a LOT. I don't know what's up with you, but something is off. Does that mean you're scum? No. Could you be? Yes.

What do I think right now? Put a gun to my head and even then I wouldn't be able to say with any certainty. Your ISO is full of trolling and things that are off but not sending out scum signals. There's one small concerning thing in your ISO, but it's nowhere near enough to assume you're scum.

So no, we're not scum reading you. We aren't town reading you either. You haven't done anything to move yourself one way or the other. For all we know, you're a SK or something, and that explains the strangeness.

~Drixx

*Sigh* - Picking up hydra slip.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

P.S. I've seen SCUM!Cakez more than I've seen Town!him. *Nods firmly*

And, pray tell, how well did those games go for you by letting him live?

I did beat him the last TWO times he was scum (Soccer Spirits and Gistou).

You didn't "catch" me in either of those games tho

Got caught up. So this is silly and I have no idea what is wrong with you people. Cerberus I get because his bar for when he will vote for and push someone is calibrated way too high, especially on day one.

Cerberus basically deconstructed SirCakez and SC's resposne was to basically run up a white flag and surrender. This is as open and shut as it gets.

If by surrender, you mean completely wreck Cerb's attack on my ISO, then yeah I surrendered.

YOU DIDN'T RESPOND TO THE SUMMARY OF YOUR PLAY.

That's the part of it all that makes this problematic for me.

Your response to my internal questions throughout were ALL reasonable....but like, you just ignored my overall conclusions about you. Like, I feel your answer was town, but I don't understand why you wouldn't bother noting why and how my conclusions were wrong if you were seriously trying to defend yourself.

-Cerb

Pedit: DGB is useless and does nothing, I wouldn't waste my time on asking her anything if I were you.

[Reasonably Rational]

Pedit: DGB is useless and does nothing, I wouldn't waste my time on asking her anything if I were you.

Wow.
Thats low.

So what would you suggest I waste my time on.
I am sick in bed.

I'm honestly sharing my experience with her. It's sad that it's been thst way every time, but....it has.

You can tell me how shiro makes you feel in that little alliance you guys have together.

-Cerb

Pedit: thr TL;DR, where I listed the cumulative effects if all the bad posts I saw throughout your ISO?

Peditx2: it is a very good show.

[Reasonably Rational]

Skybird ISO(previous post included in this one)

First three posts are fluff, then an ally request.

300: willing to ally with Yume.
318: Questions FB about having mastin who he townreads in his lynch pool. Tells him to leave Yume alone.
337: At Farsides suggestion, invites Foxbird to ally with her, responds to Drixx's confusion and shows willingness to ally with RR as well.
353: Asks CoolDog if he's read the thread and informs him of the ally state for mastin and RR.
445: FB responds to her 318 in 323, saying mastin is in his lynch pool for annoyance, and Skybird asks him what's annoying him.
578: Farside feels town to her.
673: RR null, KC and mastin town, CoolDog scum. What reasons did you have for the KC and CoolDog reads at this time?
1012: Calls Xkfyu's 716 "sucking up to OWK". Because they voted Creature? Because of the exact verbiage they used? Why exactly is this sucking up? Asks for an explanation of OWK's town read on CoolDog. Consistent with their scumread on him, but that read is still unexplained.
1018: MIsreads OWK's 1014 explaining their CoolDog read as feeling bad in their guts, without any evidence in thread(which is a weird conclusion to arrive at, sounds like the sort of thing that make someone null, not "might be town") as a read on FB, and asks if he's ballsy enough to be scum and call himself such all game.
1044: 1019 OWK clarifies that the answer previously was about CoolDog, Skybird agrees regarding the CoolDog read and reasoning, and calls it strange that CD asked mastin to ally after she said she was never going to ally with anyone.
1049: Suggests snarky may be "trying too hard" as a devil's advocate, and disagrees that snarky is "so town". How town is Snarky then Skybird?
1502: Votes NC. Why did you do this? Whose points against him swayed you?
1585: Asks SC about his town read on NC. Consistent.
1825: Confirms that the blank vote on Snarky did not come from her slot.
1855: Gut town read on RR, willing to lynch DGB(because of the empty iso, or because of the bad reason/lack of reason for the vote on RR?). Questions SC's justification for the townread on NC. Good questions and points.
1925: Cakez is a scum lean.
2192: Willing to ally farside22, questions her on her SC townread.
2223: Agrees with the points everyone else has been making about SC, reiterates the question from 2192.
2249: Votes Shiro with Farside, with no reason given. What were your thoughts here? What are they now?
2416: Asks shiro for his reads.
2434: In response to Shiro's ansewr to 2416 "going back and forth on KC too, asks why he scumreads Mcmenno, doesn't have any thing to say about any of his other reads. Why didn't you ask him why he scumread A50?
Nothing of note past this point.

Super minor town read overall. I see attempts to put things together when she's here, even if she's not doing it too much.

@KC: Do you believe that DGB is a scum traitor and she sincerely thought you were scum, and that as the traitor, she was willing to reveal herself in a PT which we were warned may be visible to unknown individuals in such a blatant fashion?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So whats your reads anyways DGB?

I'm way behind where I should be with reads. One thing I am not seeing is the usual Day 1 nervous scum making mistakes so I am going to guess that the scum team has a proficient scum game overall. I know that doesn't really answer your question.

Having been deaded elsewhere I will have more time to consecrate to this one in the near future.

Among those here, who do you believe would be prone to making nervous mistakes as scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

No matter what, please nobody hammer until everyone's alliance situation is figured out. Has anyone been keeping track?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Ope, never mind. Apparently shiro had a vote hidden under a picture in one of his posts.

...

Yume, you and me yes?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I can help with that.

UNVOTE:

Thanks Yume. With that, SC *is* at L-2 right now in spite of the latest VC.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Without knowledge of the size of the scum team, it's NAI.

Was that seriously the thing he mentioned earlier that was why allying with grapes would be a bad idea?

-Cerb

Pedit. Oh. Here he is.

[Reasonably Rational]

Why did you claim thr bp portion of your role? Just lost all utility for it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A50, did you know about the BP thing too? If you did, why didn't you corroborate his claim that he should ally with mastin, given your townread on both slots?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A50, did you know about the BP thing too? If you did, why didn't you corroborate his claim that he should ally with mastin, given your townread on both slots?

-Cerb

Nah, I don't lynch someone who's likely to be killed if town.

UNVOTE:

i disagree, that claim doesn't make SirCakez a target for a night kill.

Weren't you townreading me?
What's up with this mudslinging?

I'm not do sure he was townreading you.

Did A50 know about the BP thing, yes or no?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Regarding Varsoon giving the role to scum: absolutely possible. The BP thing is, in and of itself, probably NAI(particularly given the mechanical ability to bypass BP at low stress).This is part of why I want to know what knowledge of SC'S role A50 and/or the members of the Joyride had, to see how said knowledge may have forced his hand in terms of his play.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

UNVOTE:
Way too much going on. I'll reevaluate in the morning. I don't understand the confusion about the BP claim, or why farside did what she did, or...ugh.

Very little of what's happened since I last posted makes much sense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Before I sleep, I want some things answered when I wake up.

1) In the SC/A50 pt (not the Joyride), was there any indication of what SC has claimed?
2) In the joyride, was there any indication of what SC has claimed?
3) Why did you destroy the joyride Farside?

I'm having trouble understanding why FS would do what she did ( as town, it's dumb, and as scum it only makes sense if some critical role was in that joyride and needed to target outside of it...and even then it's still dumb), as well as reconciling SC'S claim that A50 knew about this all day with his claim of ignorance, while the rest of their joyride claims they were aware of the protection SC claims to be the source of.

And with that, good night.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Varsoon: Is the Joyride an alliance like the others formed in this game? That is, if a role had an effect on allies/enabled by an alliance, would it function due to the joyride/extend to the members of the joyride?

If he can't answer me, can someone who was a member of it please ask this question privately and share the answer with us?

My interpretation is that there were two separate effects going on with the joyride, one giving bp, and one reducing targetability/targeting options.

This is what I need confirmation of.

-Cerb

Pedit. Okay. So there were TWO separate effects protecting members of that alliance. The BP is unclaimed by anyone but SC ,and the limited targeting is claimed by A50?

Is that correct?

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh. Missed that. Thanks FB.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay do since I'm apparently not falling asleep anytime soon:

NC, what part of recent events do you think would be indicative of anything? FS destroying two layers of protection is unlikely to be done by town OR scum, since none of the "leaders"/threats to scum are in that PT.

I need to know if the joyride and thr sc/A50 alliance are two separate PTs.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Great, the BP might not be true...someone is counter claiming Cakey, come on...

The BP IS FARTING TRUE. It's just that I missed it. It did say we were not to be killed by conventional methods, and that isn't part of my own event's effect. That's not part of my own role either. It had to be someone else's role/effect, and I don't see counterclaims coming from either FB or farside. You can wait for the rest of your life for CD to show up and confirm it wasn't his either. Like, you're not reading at all!

Right, you missed it. It's you creating a world where Cakey is town when he us not.

OWK, clear this up for me: are you saying if SCs role is what hes claiming, you believe he's town, but you just don't believe the claim...or do you not believe the claim, AND don't think it matters?

The language of you connecting A50's corroboration of SC'S claim with him being town makes this unclear to me.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

NC, I had read everything before I ever posted anything. That doesn't mean everything made sense snd thst there weren't things that need(ed) clarification.

How do you know who the town arguing with one another are? Whose discussions am I supposed to not take into account here?

-Cerb

Pedit: OWK, you're confbiasing. Moving the goal posts, etc. Earlier you said that he was lying about the bp, and counterclaimed him, and now that there's further evidence showing that you were wrong in your interpretation of the situation, you're saying it doesn't matter.

[Reasonably Rational]

NC, I believe I want to talk to basically everyone in thread who isn't you about this. I feel that your position in the game is such that IF a wagon on SC disintegrates, it will reform on you, and this makes me leery of your ability to evaluate the situation without bias.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@A50: in your alliance with SC, there is mod confirmation that an effect exists which makes you both BP, correct? Basically, this is not something it is possible for SC to be lying about, unless there were some prequel phase effect which granted this modifier to your alliance(s) in particular.

Is that accurate?
-Cerb

Pedit: there was NEVER any statement made in this game by ANYONE stating that the cakez/A50 alliance existed separately from the joyride. All of A50's statements regarding the OP of alliances have been vague. There is NO reason to assume the joyride wasn't just an extension of the cakez /A50 alliance. That needed to be confirmed, as well as the joyrides status as alliance, so I could check whether or not A50 should have been able to connect the effect the joyride had with thr effect his own pt had, and thus know that it was definitely SC providing the BP.

Pedit2: So your alliance with A50 has NO MENTION of any bp granting effect, but the joyride does?

[Reasonably Rational]

Before I sleep, I want some things answered when I wake up.

1) In the SC/A50 pt (not the Joyride), was there any indication of what SC has claimed?
2) In the joyride, was there any indication of what SC has claimed?
3) Why did you destroy the joyride Farside?

I'm having trouble understanding why FS would do what she did ( as town, it's dumb, and as scum it only makes sense if some critical role was in that joyride and needed to target outside of it...and even then it's still dumb), as well as reconciling SC'S claim that A50 knew about this all day with his claim of ignorance, while the rest of their joyride claims they were aware of the protection SC claims to be the source of.

And with that, good night.
-Cerb

Amendment: I only addressed the BP issue here. The extra vote was not brought up either in either PT, but I figured it out as I was the only other member of BOTH, and it wasn't mine for sure, so it had to be his. The other 3 didn't know it bc they didn't know we had that same effect in our own PT (mine & SC's)

The overlap of effects in both PT's is what I'm interested in here.

Since the joyride has been confirmed to count as an alliance, any effect SC had on the joyride should have also been reflected in your alliance.
If the BP was announced in both PT's, then it should have been clear to you that SC was the source, same as with the extra vote.
If the BP wasn't announced in both, and it wasn't a part of your effect, and nobody else is claiming it, then nothing here makes any sense. That is, unless the joyride has an additional effect of publicizing effects which would otherwise remain unknown to members of an alliance.

Am I making sense here SC?

Like, it feels really simple to answer me here, but I'm not getting straight answers.

1) In the joyride PT was the BP mentioned(NOT BY SC, BUT BY THE MODERATOR AS AN EFFECT MODIFYING THE PT)?
2) In your PT with SC, was the bp mentioned(NOT BY SC, BUT BY THE MODERATOR AS AN EFFECT MODIFYING THE PT)?

That's all I want to know, and your answers are making it difficult for me to tell if you're telling me that SC never claimed things himself in the PT, or if you're telling me that there was no moderator information regarding the bp in both pt's

-Cerb

pedit: NC, that doesn't mean that they have SEPARATE PT's. That's the important part.

[Reasonably Rational]

Before I sleep, I want some things answered when I wake up.

1) In the SC/A50 pt (not the Joyride), was there any indication of what SC has claimed?
2) In the joyride, was there any indication of what SC has claimed?
3) Why did you destroy the joyride Farside?

I'm having trouble understanding why FS would do what she did ( as town, it's dumb, and as scum it only makes sense if some critical role was in that joyride and needed to target outside of it...and even then it's still dumb), as well as reconciling SC'S claim that A50 knew about this all day with his claim of ignorance, while the rest of their joyride claims they were aware of the protection SC claims to be the source of.

And with that, good night.
-Cerb

Amendment: I only addressed the BP issue here. The extra vote was not brought up either in either PT, but I figured it out as I was the only other member of BOTH, and it wasn't mine for sure, so it had to be his. The other 3 didn't know it bc they didn't know we had that same effect in our own PT (mine & SC's)

The overlap of effects in both PT's is what I'm interested in here.

Since the joyride has been confirmed to count as an alliance, any effect SC had on the joyride should have also been reflected in your alliance.
If the BP was announced in both PT's, then it should have been clear to you that SC was the source, same as with the extra vote.
If the BP wasn't announced in both, and it wasn't a part of your effect, and nobody else is claiming it, then nothing here makes any sense. That is, unless the joyride has an additional effect of publicizing effects which would otherwise remain unknown to members of an alliance.

Am I making sense here SC?

Like, it feels really simple to answer me here, but I'm not getting straight answers.

1) In the joyride PT was the BP mentioned(NOT BY SC, BUT BY THE MODERATOR AS AN EFFECT MODIFYING THE PT)?
2) In your PT with SC, was the bp mentioned(NOT BY SC, BUT BY THE MODERATOR AS AN EFFECT MODIFYING THE PT)?

That's all I want to know, and your answers are making it difficult for me to tell if you're telling me that SC never claimed things himself in the PT, or if you're telling me that there was no moderator information regarding the bp in both pt's

-Cerb

pedit: NC, that doesn't mean that they have SEPARATE PT's. That's the important part.

This was aimed at A50, not SC.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Given that Almost50 has a stick up his ass, Farside imploded, Fire wants to lynch her for that implosion

And your issue is that I take a counterclaim to its logical conclusion? Holy shit RR.

You were JUST in a game with *4* town BP's, with a total of 5 vests between them. I was in that game too.

That game didn't have a mechanic built in that would allow scum to *always* bypass BP. This game does. The counterclaim thing isn't as straightforward as it might be under other circumstances.

-Cerb

pedit: A50 please answer the other question. The one that will finally sort all this crap out.

[Reasonably Rational]

pedit: NC, that doesn't mean that they have SEPARATE PT's. That's the important part.

i suppose you caught me making an assumption of my own. i didn't consider the possibility of only a single private topic when so many of Almost50's posts had mention of speaking privately to SirCakez.

Yeah, I would have made the same assumption you did, but the language A50 used when referring to the OP made it unclear to me if there was just one OP he was referring to, or two separate ones, since he didn't distinguish them in anyway, like by saying "In the A50/SC PT, the OP says xyz, and in the Joyride PT, the OP says abc".

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Given that Almost50 has a stick up his ass, Farside imploded, Fire wants to lynch her for that implosion

And your issue is that I take a counterclaim to its logical conclusion? Holy shit RR.

You were JUST in a game with *4* town BP's, with a total of 5 vests between them. I was in that game too.

That game didn't have a mechanic built in that would allow scum to *always* bypass BP. This game does. The counterclaim thing isn't as straightforward as it might be under other circumstances.

-Cerb

pedit: A50 please answer the other question. The one that will finally sort all this crap out.

Right, and the chunk of us were TOLD that others would be BP upon death. There was no notice of a second BP here. Nor should there be.

Cakey is scum by play which Mastina, NC, myself and others highlighted. You were the first to say he resigned. He resigned in response to my CC. It is that black and white.

...The thing about you being informed of others being BP is WHOLLY IRRELEVANT. The argument about whether or not there would be multiple BP is based upon whether or not such would be balanced/could be expected from the moderator in question. The KNOWLEDGE within town of said BP existing in other slots doesn't affect whether or not it would be reasonable to place multiple BP's against the scum team.

I...don't see any resignation in any of his posting at any point? Maybe Drixx said that earlier? I'm not really sure what you're talking about when you say i was the first to say he resigned. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It was Drixx but your slot.

Since when do you post mega analysis you don't agree to?

We've all seen the resignation Cerb. Why you trying to say otherwise?

Nothing of what I posted said anything about resignation, and I sincerely don't understand what the resignation argument is or how you all arrived at that conclusion. Nothing of Drixx's post was "mega-analysis", and my own post didn't say anything about said resignation, it noted a number of suspicious things SC had done.

No. It didn't matter. He is probably lying but hoodwinked the hood. Even if he's not there's not likely more than one town BP.

First, his BP appears to be conditional, i.e. IF he's in an alliance.

Second, it doesn't make sense to give scum the ability to make their entire team BP, bc I have never seen a TOWN strongman before. It only makes sense to give the TOWN a "feel" of safety, with a scum strongman being able to breach that shield. There's also the very likely possibility that said alliance would include scum in it (be it one on one or one resulting from an event like mine where an ignorant town player gets to pick). Either way, if a kill does occur nobody would be able to tell for certain if it originated from within the group or from a strongman outside it.

I maintain my TOWN READ on Cakez.

Unless you're scum, he cannot make his entire team BP if honest unless they clone you or some shit.
My BP depends on alliances as well.

He said his Season Finale ability allowed him to create a 5 man alliance. That would be a full scum team/majority of scum team BP on what is likely the most dangerous night of the game. But yes, it wouldn't let him create a fully BP team anytime he wanted, only sometimes.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A50, PLEASE STOP ANSWERING OLD SHIT AND ANSWER 3051 SO I CAN TRY TO GO TO SLEEP AGAIN!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It was Drixx but your slot.

Since when do you post mega analysis you don't agree to?

We've all seen the resignation Cerb. Why you trying to say otherwise?

Nothing of what I posted said anything about resignation, and I sincerely don't understand what the resignation argument is or how you all arrived at that conclusion. Nothing of Drixx's post was "mega-analysis", and my own post didn't say anything about said resignation, it noted a number of suspicious things SC had done.

would you respond directly to the post where i collected quotes from my recent conversation with Cakez? now, or when you have time tomorrow. would still also like a readslist.

0% chance you'll get a readslist.

Your wall of quotes means nothing to me. I read through it, and I saw nothing of significance.

The entire line of conversation regarding whether or not he saw Farsides suggestion and him correcting her incorrect assumption is worthless. If he, as town, wouldn't have lied about that, then he couldn't lie about it as scum. His points about why scum!him couldn't have risked the lie are valid.

-Cerb

pedit: You're making a *whole lot* of setup speculation off of no flips OWK. That's the problem I have with basically all your thoughts regarding SC's claim. And yes, you're right, in SU we spent a bunch of time making sure we were on the same page all the time, because we had more time to talk. I haven't spoken with Drixx about the game in over 24 hours, and we haven't done much to coordinate posts other than him posting times when he was angry at mastin in our hydra PT so I could tell him to stop wasting his time being mad at mastin. Before he made the post you're referencing ,he didn't talk to me about the conclusions he drew from SC's reaction AT ALL other than to say "x was bad" without any actual details about WHY it was bad, and then he posted said conclusions.

So yes, dissonance is a thing, because we aren't talking enough to wipe it all out.

It would be nice if you answered my question in the PT.

peditx2: FINALLY AN ANSWER. Okay. Thank you. I now have to decide whether or not I believe you seriously missed that, while simultaneously AGREEING that it would be a bad idea if he allied with grapes. And now I know FOR CERTAIN that either you and SC are scum together/lying about what your PT together says, OR that SC's BP granting claim is true.

[Reasonably Rational]

0% chance you'll get a readslist.

Your wall of quotes means nothing to me. I read through it, and I saw nothing of significance.

The entire line of conversation regarding whether or not he saw Farsides suggestion and him correcting her incorrect assumption is worthless. If he, as town, wouldn't have lied about that, then he couldn't lie about it as scum. His points about why scum!him couldn't have risked the lie are valid.

-Cerb

what is your read on SirCakez. i don't need a list of all 25 players and your reasoning for reads on them. do you have anything for me to work with?

"his points about why scum!him couldn't have risked the lie are valid". yes. they are. because he's scum and

did not risk the lie.

unless you mean town!him? in which case... why was he worried about being lie detected for something so small, and why was he on guard for farside, a player who is majorly townreading him, to be picking apart his posting times?
i don't think i was railroading him into responding a certain way. the original "to be fair" was not that scummy. it's really just a phrase. it's how he responded to all of it.

it seems i was lying about going to bed. ugh.

Nope, I have nothing for you NC, other than the rather large amount I've written in my ISO about his slot.

...

And the way I read that whole exchange is he's saying letting her believe he had done something he hadn't done would be scummy. You're trying to say that the fact that he corrected her *is* scummy. You interpret his post to mean he's concerned about being scumread, when as far as I see it he's merely stating facts about things. Taking towncred for something one didn't do WOULD be considered scummy. Therefore, as either alignment he wouldn't want to do it.

-Cerb

pedit: Yeah, thanks A50. I understand things now. It's just a matter of determining what I find to be more likely.

[Reasonably Rational]

If the BP was announced in both PT's, then it should have been clear to you that SC was the source, same as with the extra vote.

that is true, and you're absolutely correct. I just missed the BP bit in the PT with SC alone and interpreted it differently when I DID read it in Joy Ride. Yes, it's my own fault and you (or anyone else) would be spot on calling me an old blind horse or however you want to put it. I'm sorry.

Why shouldn't I believe you had it right the first time and scum cakey hoodwinked you? Since when do town bps get announced? The more logical conclusion to you never noticed is that you changed your interpretation due to scum Cakey.

Even if your interpretation is accurate, what use is a town BP that announces itself by default? Scum would just avoid it that one night.

...

Are you seriously suggesting that A50 can't read the words written by the moderator in his PT's? As implausible as him missing them the first time is, him, as town, rereading them now and thinking they're identical for no reason other than SC's suggestion that they're the same effect is even less likely.

Like, basically the only way SC isn't the source of this BP effect is if 1) they're both scum together or 2) someone used a power to modify all of SC's or A50's alliances.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Intent to hammer in 2 hours. Make any final arrangements.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

So, I came to the realization this morning that I spent a LOT of time last night arguing over shit that doesn't matter. I was trying to figure out if A50 could be scum in that PT on the theory that if he were, SC was unlikely to be scum (since if they were scum together, A50 would have supported SC'S bid to ally mastin, OR they wouldn't have even suggested it, but none of that actually changes anything about his prior play that was concerning, and it isn't certainly enough to automatically clear him completely).

Peridots twitter thing is like 90% town, because of the initial fluff usage, as I mentioned a good while ago.

47 minutes to hammer.

OWK, I didn't miss your ally change request, it just wasn't a priority and I had/still have a bunch of things I'd like to talk more about.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Are you still up for allying with me or do you wanna take OWK's offer instead?

I sorta have things I'd like to discuss with you, and I don't understand why OWK wouldn't be using her outed protective thing to protect mastin, since she can do that without messing with our alliance.

So, basically yes, I'd rather maintain our alliance and have owk+mastin ally over any other option.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm pretty sure alliances start are chosen during the Climax of one day and begin at the Exposition of the next, lasting though until the next exposition begins, but only allowing conversation during the exposition.

-Cerb

Pedit: yep, that's the plan.

[Reasonably Rational]

Flavour speccing varsoon is stupid.

Who is that aimed at? I mean, it's a good comment, but I'm not sure what you're talking about? The McMenno/NC exchange?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

VOTE: SirCakez

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

...
I gave you all two hours of notice to confirm, and you all show up when the thread should be locked already.

*sigh*

Someone should shoot XKFYU for specifically requesting that he not be vigged. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Does anybody else want a short night phase? I can already feel the boredom creeping in.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, let's dance. l33t

Yume, if we ever meet in meatspace, we shall dance. I'd post a gif of dancing, but I lack the energy to Google fu my way to an appropriate gif.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR I thought you wanted to chat with me, yet you're not posting at all in our alliance thread....

Umm I haven't said anything anywhere yet Yume, because I'm chilling on my recliner and don't feel like going up to my computer to make a lengthy post. :p

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

hold on, where does yume's flavor come into play here

Nothing more should be said about this. I'm fairly certain scum should have figured it out, but if they haven't, there's no reason to say more, unless you're explicitly doubting OWK'S alignment.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@farside why do you think this game is bastard?

this is interesting. I do believe that firebringer is not "dead" yet, so to say

@rr so you believe that titus made a slip, I'm going to assume that this information has been discussed in your alliance, otherwise you wouldn't know about it

Umm, no, I don't believe Titus made a slip, and no, we didn't discuss it in our alliance.

I just know that I'm smart, and so are other people, and some of them are scum, so we shouldn't say anything more.

That's all.

@mastin: you do realize that nobody died last night, yes? Therefore the idea of using any points regarding who died as part of an argument against my slot is basically useless?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@farside why do you think this game is bastard?

this is interesting. I do believe that firebringer is not "dead" yet, so to say

@rr so you believe that titus made a slip, I'm going to assume that this information has been discussed in your alliance, otherwise you wouldn't know about it

Umm, no, I don't believe Titus made a slip, and no, we didn't discuss it in our alliance.

I just know that I'm smart, and so are other people, and some of them are scum, so we shouldn't say anything more.

That's all.

@mastin: you do realize that nobody died last night, yes? Therefore the idea of using any points regarding who died as part of an argument against my slot is basically useless?

-Cerb

Firebringer seems pretty dead.

Did you and Drixx sort out your issues last night?

Removed from the game is explicitly not the same as dead. Short-sighted assumption to make.

And nope, not really. We spent our time talking chatting about important rl stuff related to his move and my living situation, and I chose to go out in the evenings rather than do the ISO I said I would do.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@mastin: you do realize that nobody died last night, yes?

No, Firebringer is dead.
He was killed.

I'd rather not explain how I know this right now.
I just know he was.

I see.

No flip+no note about an effect obscuring a flip is really weird then, but okay.

So are you saying you have cause to believe that FB was the scum kill last night?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@farside why do you think this game is bastard?

this is interesting. I do believe that firebringer is not "dead" yet, so to say

@rr so you believe that titus made a slip, I'm going to assume that this information has been discussed in your alliance, otherwise you wouldn't know about it

Just didn't see cakez as scum.

@Mastina, Can we slow the roll here on RR? I'm not hard townreading them anymore but I'd like time and the opportunity to mend bridges with Farside and Almost.

Well if it means anything I'm kind of in a daze that Cakez was scum.
I actually asked the mod if this game was bastard.
I'm going to reread with this in mind and see what I can figure out.

Ok, can you look at DGB in particular? I'm inclined to think that DGB and RR are opposing alignments or scum and scum but I'm not sure on that. So basically, I think there's at least one scum in DGB and RR.

It's ok that you're in a daze. I'd be that way too. I just want to get to the bottom of what caused our communication error and resolve it, because I tried everything I could to see what you were thinking and you just kept saying I was ignoring you. It was very frustrating.

Part of me felt like I wasn't being listened to in regards to how I was reading thing. Felt like all I was getting was ramrod with cakez scum over and over.

Anyways that's just how I felt most of day one and just got irritated.

I'll look at dgb.
I was scum reading rr just because how they narrowed reads to 2 players to make an iso on. It just read as information without analysis.

While we're chatting, what if I told you I mentioned to cakez he could be possible saved if he switched his vote to Shiro and he refused.
Would you find that odd?

Wtf? I isoed SC because he was the biggest wagon and the main topic of conversation. I isoed SC because kts explicitly asked for my opinion on the slot, and I wanted him involved in the game instead of troll mode.

I didn't ISO either due to an existing read I had on the slot before looking at it.

@Titus: I have no idea. Assuming mastin is implying some knowledge that fbs death was not due to the scum kill, it's possible they went after one of the conftown/probtown leaders, yourself, Yume, or mastin, and ran into protection. Or maybe they had to no kill to trigger that event, which seems to basically be a big fuck you to our PRs. No way to really know without people claiming shit that shouldn't be claimed, and even then it's unlikely we'll know.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Shiro who's scum besides almost?

I have a soft scumread on McMenno but it isn;t some solid stuff. I felt his lurkish ways day 1 were off cause I remember him much more active and trollish as town.

I am still half half on RR.

I don't think Drixx has even really said anything lately Shiro. Being half/half on my slot doesn't make sense, if it's based on reading each head differently like you said before. Well, okay, I guess it does if Drixx hasn't said anything and therefore your read on him is the same, while what I've said kept your read on me the same.

Nevermind.

Did firebringer have anything of note to say in any of his alliances that wasn't shared with the thread, reads wise?

-Cerb

Pedit: Wrong about the kill thing? I don't see it as her saying she BELIEVES xyz because of unnamed reasons. I see her saying she KNOWS something. So she isn't wrong. The lack of a flip+no notes as given the last time something obscured a flip doesn't make sense though.

[Reasonably Rational]

A janitor makes sense, but the VERBIAGE USED does not fit in with a janitor.

I've seen Varsoon janitor things before, and the verbiage was along the lines of an effect preventing the flip, NOT just that the slot was gone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

A janitor makes sense, but the VERBIAGE USED does not fit in with a janitor.

I've seen Varsoon janitor things before, and the verbiage was along the lines of an effect preventing the flip, NOT just that the slot was gone.

-Cerb

So what do you think happened?

I have no idea. Given Mastins certainty that fb is dead, she has some information about it. Given that she is conftown, it doesn't make sense that she would know anything about the scum kill, so he was removed by some effect unrelated to the scum kill, UNLESS her role specifically tells her what faction performed specific kills.

All speculation though.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

I can potentially see Farside being scum tbh. To me her defence of almost was no sensical and at some point she accused me of doing stuff almost was doing.

The scum read here is entirely because you think she was defending her scum partner, and mixed up your two slots? Does it make sense for her to be hard defending her own partner and think you did stuff she would know he did?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

It is what it is as I said to him personally I am townreading cerb it just hat the few posts Drixx had rub me the wrong way, I felt Mc was lackluster yea I see now that his post count doesnt reflect it but it just felt like it to me?

Can you show me some posts from cerb you thought were town?

Also, have either of you or farside played with almost before how was the defense nonsensical?

Can you show me some posts you thought were scum? :p
-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh right, the post where you said something Drixx said felt fake, and called a post unvetted (without saying why it was unvetted, or even WHY that's significant(particular since ALL of my posts have been "unvetted", the majority made from my phone on a whim), and called a question I asked an obvious one I didn't care about, when forcing people to take a stance on something seems pretty meaningful.

...

-Cerb

Pedit: I think mastins posts about the subject of FBs death make it unlikely it was the scum kill, and there are a few options for who could want to kill him, but if the kill didn't come from scum there's NO REASON for us to speculate about the source.

[Reasonably Rational]

YEA CERB I'M HAVING A SHITLOAD OF PROBLEMS GETTING A WAGON ROLLING ON YOU LEMME GO DO UP A WALLCASE REAL QUICK OH WAIT NEVERMIND I DON'T NEED TO THIS TOWN KNOWS WHAT'S GOOD

Keep guessing why I'm scumreading you though.

I don't expect you to actually find reasons because they don't exist. *shrug* I was just making fun of you for demanding that other people explain unfounded town reads with specific quotes when you haven't done a particular good job of explaining unfounded scum reads with specific quotes.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Though it IS fun tearing apart the paper thin cases people try to assemble on me, so, I mean, if you DID do it it would at least be entertaining.

-Cerb

Pedit: as I said, it's just entertaining that the bar you set for him is so much higher than the one you set for yourself, that's all. And, for the record, I didn't find everything SC did scummy. Every single thing I noted as consistent and in line with previous play was town points in his favor, as was his response post (barring the fact that he didn't directly refute my conclusions).

[Reasonably Rational]

Okay let me see if I can get this straight, and please pardon me because I've been dealing with some pretty heavy shit lately which is why Cerb is running laps around me in posting.

Cerb was asked by KTS to do something and did evaluated SC post by post. SC's reaction to it was bad and I caught up and voted him becuase as far as I was concerned, Cerb nailed him to the wall. It wasn't exactly like any wagons were going yesterday prior to that, by the way. Go back and look again if you don't recall how EVERY wagon just stalled out.

So we're being wagoned why? What size idiot ball would we have to be holding to put in hours of work to make a case against SC (did you look at his role abilities?) if we were scum? Then, how much

BIGGER

of an idiot ball would we have to be juggling for Cerb to come in and go through that excruciating 100 post back and forth trying to clarify things to see if SC's claim made sense and we might have been wrong? Like holy fuckballs. Did any of you voting for us right now even think, at all, before doing so?

Can someone walk me through what kind of motive would make sense for a posited scum us to do what we did yesterday? Seriously ... go look and then try and explain why the hell we would have played that way as scum. We're town and the way we played yesterday is OTAF.

For the gigantic ego that is called Mastin I simply put this forward: even if you haven't removed your head from the smelly dark and damp place where you appeared to be keeping it during day one, why on

earth

would you want to kill us before making us do our event, given that I told you it includes awarding someone the equivalent of a cop usage in a game run by a moderator who hates cops. Not even you could possibly be holding an idiot ball so big that you would want to kill us before we pop our event.

Presumably once we actually pop our event and you see the FULL details of what it does, you'll realize that it plus our play = town. You're stubborn, but I don't think you're so stubborn you will just cut off your nose to spite your face.

~Drixx

P.S. - Dealing with a healing Stage 2 Decubitus Ulcer (google at your own risk) and had the pleasure of seeing my town jail while day one was coming to a close, which is why I suddenly disappeared and didn't say anything. I would have had a lot to say but none of it matters now. SC was scum. We were right. GG.

[Reasonably Rational]

YEA CERB I'M HAVING A SHITLOAD OF PROBLEMS GETTING A WAGON ROLLING ON YOU LEMME GO DO UP A WALLCASE REAL QUICK OH WAIT NEVERMIND I DON'T NEED TO THIS TOWN KNOWS WHAT'S GOOD

Keep guessing why I'm scumreading you though.

I don't expect you to actually find reasons because they don't exist. *shrug* I was just making fun of you for demanding that other people explain unfounded town reads with specific quotes when you haven't done a particular good job of explaining unfounded scum reads with specific quotes.

-Cerb

why are you feeling that nothing absolutely nothing you have posted in this game could be scummy in any way whatsoever

I have a feeling that your overconfidence will be your downfall

Because I know people scumread me regularly for things I do which they view as scummy, and which I then prove to them to not actually be indicative of my alignment. *shrug* Their reasoning is generally flawed, incomplete, or reliant on assumptions. There's no reason to think there will be any difference this time.

If by downfall you mean the success of a lynch against me, then the cause of such won't be my (quite justified) confidence, it will be the blind sheeping that occurs whenever town successfully lynches scum on D1. *shrug*

-Cerb

Owk: I have no idea what responses you're talking about. It seems pretty straightforward.

[Reasonably Rational]

Like RR, you gotta help me out here. Your responses are damn near scumclaiming and I'm like meh...

If Firebringer wasn't the scum kill, that suggests scum shot the bulletproof (me) which makes no sense.

Titus. Why on earth are you backpedaling? You

know

Cerb can't help himself when it comes to being absolutely certain about information.

And umm... protective roles exist?

Cerb's speculation is just speculation but it could make sense. Look at the event the scum team triggered last night and what we know. We have two nights until the climax. If we use our abilities, there will be deaths (unknown number, but it's plural which means at least 2 from the event, and if the scum team couldn't kill in order to trigger, it probably would be more?). We have no idea what amount of holding back we have to do to avoid this event killing X of us. Basically our choice is to just accept whatever the death count is OR to stop using our abilities for the next couple nights. That's a freaking absurdly powerful thing. So ummm... Cerb might have hit the nail on the head with his speculation.

And if not: Protective roles?

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

RR, I am not blind sheeping anyone.

If Firebringer wasn't a scumkill, like scum suggest.
Then scum shot me most likely, as I don't see there being another protective in play given the number of confirmed town we already have by setup design. Is it possible sure? Likely no.
There's also the argument that scum deliberately no killed and opted to take the idiot ball.

The only way I see being shot is if you're scum though...

So???

p-edit: I haven't read that wall by Mastina but I saw my name appear in it.

Why would I EVER shoot you as scum?

...

I mean...you outlined exactly why it would be stupid already.

...

What do you mean by "like scum suggest"?

@mastin: of course, my unvote was scummy, because I never deliberately attempt to keep hammers from happening while I'm still working things out. /a

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Also, I wasn't referring to you.

I'm referring to the people who, because they were right once, will assume all their reads were right and will just vote without further consideration, and those who didn't have opinions but will sheep those votes because those people will be confident about them now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastin - You have played with Cerberus before right? I'm just checking because you're saying something he does

all the time

was fake. And the underlying implications to that don't make sense.

And for the idiot ball comments: Idiot Ball = literary device. It refers to when an otherwise very intelligent character makes an absurd mistake. It's kind of like a deus ex machina, and it fits in really when people aren't engaging their brains.

@Grapes - Farside, Foxbird, DGB, Grapes, KC are the people I am looking at for scum at the moment.


Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

EbWoP: Something still seems off about Not Chara. A lot of the late day one stuff looked like AtE to me. A lot of posts about being frustrated which didn't really say anything but made it look like it was around a lot. No substance.

When you're frustrated in mafia, it comes out in what you say and how you respond to things. There's no reason to bring it up over and over again. It's thin, but probably should be on the list.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastin - You have played with Cerberus before right? I'm just checking because you're saying something he does

all the time

was fake. And the underlying implications to that don't make sense.

And for the idiot ball comments: Idiot Ball = literary device. It refers to when an otherwise very intelligent character makes an absurd mistake. It's kind of like a deus ex machina, and it fits in really when people aren't engaging their brains.

@Grapes - Farside, Foxbird, DGB, Grapes, KC are the people I am looking at for scum at the moment.


Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

~Drixx

Vote: rr

Aww ... did I hurt you wittle feelings?

[Reasonably Rational]

Nope

Your naked vote after I pointed out your terrible behavior yesterday suggests otherwise.

You DO realize how absurdly stupid and scummy that was right? I don't buy the temper tantrum angle. Much more likely you did it intentionally. It robbed people of protection, and potentially unchained people. Funny how you did that and then we have this event happening that is super bad for us. I'm

SURE

the two couldn't possibly be related though, amirite?

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus: I have no idea. Assuming mastin is implying some knowledge that fbs death was not due to the scum kill, it's possible they went after one of the conftown/probtown leaders, yourself, Yume, or mastin, and ran into protection.

It's interesting you say this.
I recall mentioning I knew Firebringer was dead.

I don't recall mentioning it's because a source outside of the scum's nightkill caused it.

I'll confirm this much: Firebringer's lack of a flip is not a scum ability.

Keep reading mastin. You're conftown. There is a very short list of reasons why you would know for certain if someone is dead, and only one of them would give you knowledge of scums kills.

In addition, I've been working with the assumption that Yume is still in an alliance with you, and if so, she should certainly have told you the greater reasoning behind what I said, even before I said it in this thread. I can't understand the selective reading of posts in a manner meant to sway opinion one way when you yourself KNOW things that should make that reading incorrect.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Mastina, Do you believe that there's other hidden protectives?

I'd rather lynch Klingon but I'm not like 100%. I'm in a wierd position where scum should be voting RR if he's town but I'm not really scumreading anyone on his wagon. Farside's the closest and she's just needs to die by lylo.

@RR, Your whole suggestion of scum didn't kill Firebringer seems like a scum one.

Okay.

Seems fairly obvious that what happened to him wasn't a standard kill and it was dumb to assume it was just a kill.

Also seems fairly obvious that when conftown confirms that someone is dead, it means they have knowledge of why they're dead.

And also seems most obvious that it doesn't make sense for conftown to know anything about scum actions.

But, whatever. Arriving at reasonable conclusions makes me scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Titus: I have no idea. Assuming mastin is implying some knowledge that fbs death was not due to the scum kill, it's possible they went after one of the conftown/probtown leaders, yourself, Yume, or mastin, and ran into protection.

It's interesting you say this.
I recall mentioning I knew Firebringer was dead.

I don't recall mentioning it's because a source outside of the scum's nightkill caused it.

I'll confirm this much: Firebringer's lack of a flip is not a scum ability.

You confirmed he was killed (see below). Unless you're scum claiming (and most of us think you're almost certainly town), how could you know that? The obvious answer is that you or someone who you have talked to did it. If that is the case, then him being dead is the result of an ability you know about, which implies that it is

not

a scum kill. This is like really simple logic. If you have nothing more substantive than that, can we please fucking move beyond your ego already. This is getting old.

@mastin: you do realize that nobody died last night, yes?

No, Firebringer is dead.
He was killed.

I'd rather not explain how I know this right now.
I just know he was.

Remember that time that you just knew you were going to be conftown on day 3? That was awesome. I assume you learned your lesson and you

actually know

this time. Please let me know if you are still in the habit of making really bad assumptions and telling the game that your bad assumptions are certain knowledge, so that I can re-assess.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@RR, Your whole suggestion of scum didn't kill Firebringer seems like a scum one.

Please see the last post signed by me. Anyone who is paying attention should have realized that once Mastin said she knew that Firebringer was dead that we were missing a kill.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Nope

Your naked vote after I pointed out your terrible behavior yesterday suggests otherwise.

You DO realize how absurdly stupid and scummy that was right? I don't buy the temper tantrum angle. Much more likely you did it intentionally. It robbed people of protection, and potentially unchained people. Funny how you did that and then we have this event happening that is super bad for us. I'm

SURE

the two couldn't possibly be related though, amirite?

Should I bother mentioning that Cakez was scum and in the joy ride or does that fact just kind of get missed?
Or should I bother mentioning it's the only reason you put as a scum read on me.
Let me know which one sounds more scummy to you.

You acted with the belief that Cakey was town though allegedly. His scumflip is irrelevant to the determination of whether your play was protown.

He's paired sc and myself as scum together.
My action makes no sense in that regards.

Don't you dare defend the dude either.

Because scum distance from other scum who are about to die. You guys put on a freaking 3 act play in the thread with that drama. Neither of you are the ones who triggered the joy ride, so unless you just slipped and told us that you, SC,

AND

A50 are all scum together and used the joyride to try and get some townies on your side for vote power ... why would we have any reason to believe there wouldn't be two scum (or more) in the joyride?

There isn't any reason to make that assumption. A50 chose that group. And YOU blew it up and you and SC made a big show about it in the thread.

Then he flipped scum.

Checkmate.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

So I'm going to suggest nicely to get your alliances in order.
Skybird, you and me again, ok.

Also the event thing that came about some people should not use there ability.
I'll offer if skybird is okay doing it too.

This is scum trying to ram our lynch through before we can trigger our beach-a-palooza event. The Beach-a-palooza involves a vote for who wins and obviously Mastin will win and if Mastin clears us (or uses other rewards or whatever), that is bad. Anyone who has seen us in stride knows why scum would do anything to get rid of us. The day hasn't even been open for a single RL day and it's time to do alliances and shove a lynch through really fast before anyone can think about it?

Yeah ... that's totes a town approach to the game.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

I thought A50 chose the members of the joyride?

Yeah. That's why I think farside just slipped. There's no reason for Farside to appeal to SC being scum and in joyride to imply that she isn't scum. Then if you recall, they had a big drawn out fight in the thread culminating in farside "blowing up" the joyride. That's classic scum distancing. Now she's trying to get the day to end as fast as possible before people can show up and other people can stop and think a bit.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

1) You missed the part where you're suppose to explain the scum motive
2) I'm reading the iso. Need this one explained to me.
3) Is DGB one of your buddies?
4) Decent point there on klingon, though.
5) What the heck is an ego push?

1.) Scum motive is distancing from a doomed scum buddy. I thought that was obvious and self-evident. I'm glad it wasn't though, because Farside appears to have scum slipped.
2.) Show me anything at all in there that's town. (To be fair, there's probably more ISOs like that, but I haven't ISOd the whole game yet; please see my earlier post about Stage 2 Decubitus Ulcer plus a night in jail)
3.) We're not masons.
4.) I know.
5.) Mastin hasn't given any reason to scum read us. Me grilling Firebringer trying to figure out why he was behaving unusual is not scummy. Me quoting her pointing out that she also got a scum ping off of him earlier is not scummy. In fact, it reinforces the fact that it wasn't just me who saw something off about him. As far as I can see, the whole push is Ego based. I mean ... look at yesterday. Cerberus put in a shit load of work to make a solid case against SC, which SC responded poorly to. Then Mastin made a super generalized post a couple pages later and tried to position herself to get credit after Cerb made it clear SC was probably scum. I mean ... to be fair to Mastin, she

did

have SC in her scum pool really early on ... but she never put the work in. She did want the credit though. And if you review the mid-late part of day one you'll see that some people thought her "case" was posted before Cerb put up his analysis. That's how much sway Mastin has over some people ... they will believe things happened in opposite order than they really do.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@mastin: Or it could be the fact that we're 5 hours into the start of the day phase and the people who have actually showed up and vote thoughtlessly are the same ones who fall into the category I described earlier.

You're right that my posts haven't done much yet though, since I let myself get drawn into stupid defending myself discussions.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

hey lookie, most of rr's recent posts have been speculating about things that he shouldn't know as town
but what do they actually do
add nothing to the game and be scummy
hooray!

Basically, yeah!

Reason we don't have any wagon existing other than theirs.

We wouldn't know that Firebird was almost certainly not killed by scum if not for YOU saying what you did Mastin.

The only other speculation we have engaged in is about the publicly announced event the scum team started. Did you guys pay any attention to that at all?

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@all

- We're literally a few hours into the day phase and Farside is claiming to be unilaterally deciding to end the day. This coming right as I point out what might be a slip by her, and she's in a gigantic hurry to get us dead and the day over, despite a pretty huge elephant in the room that needs to be discussed.

Her push to try and get us dead and the day over is ridiculously over the top scummy. We give out an investigate in a game where there are not likely to be many others (if any). That is something that will be voted on and there's two obvious conftowns so if we live, that hurts scum. Furthermore, there's a scum event that got triggered. Go look at the start of day post and think. What would happen if the day suddenly ends super fast and alliances aren't worked out and no discussion goes on about how to try and blunt the scum event that was announced?

Only scum want this day to end fast.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Farside - Super anti-town play yesterday with what she did. If you think about the implications of it and how it could have been leveraged for maximum utility, her blowing up that event was the most anti-town thing I've ever seen on the site.
Foxbird - Read the ISO. Self-explanatory.
DGB - The whole Traitor thing. Makes zero sense. DGB also moved us to firm town late yesterday but then just voted us today. Back to the traitor thing: what would make DGB think there's a traitor unless she is one? It's not a thing I remember Varsoon using before and I don't see anything in the info we have to suggest one is present. Only way DGB is town is if it was a reaction test, but if that's the case, why isn't DGB engage din the main thread doing things like that?
KC - Something was off about the response to the DGB thing. If I were KC, there's no way someone could claim to be a scum to me and live. KC barely pushed it. That isn't a town response, imo.
You - Gut. You're too smart to actually think we're scum and you are also too smart to join in on an ego push, yet you seem to be doing both.

1) You missed the part where you're suppose to explain the scum motive
2) I'm reading the iso. Need this one explained to me.
3) Is DGB one of your buddies?
4) Decent point there on klingon, though.
5) What the heck is an ego push?

1.) Scum motive is distancing from a doomed scum buddy. I thought that was obvious and self-evident. I'm glad it wasn't though, because Farside appears to have scum slipped.
2.) Show me anything at all in there that's town. (To be fair, there's probably more ISOs like that, but I haven't ISOd the whole game yet; please see my earlier post about Stage 2 Decubitus Ulcer plus a night in jail)
3.) We're not masons.
4.) I know.
5.) Mastin hasn't given any reason to scum read us. Me grilling Firebringer trying to figure out why he was behaving unusual is not scummy. Me quoting her pointing out that she also got a scum ping off of him earlier is not scummy. In fact, it reinforces the fact that it wasn't just me who saw something off about him. As far as I can see, the whole push is Ego based. I mean ... look at yesterday. Cerberus put in a shit load of work to make a solid case against SC, which SC responded poorly to. Then Mastin made a super generalized post a couple pages later and tried to position herself to get credit after Cerb made it clear SC was probably scum. I mean ... to be fair to Mastin, she

did

have SC in her scum pool really early on ... but she never put the work in. She did want the credit though. And if you review the mid-late part of day one you'll see that some people thought her "case" was posted before Cerb put up his analysis. That's how much sway Mastin has over some people ... they will believe things happened in opposite order than they really do.

~D

I know self meta is like a no no, but you should really read my scum games. Because that is not in the realm of something I do.
Heck, ask mastin if you want. I bet she has seen what I do.

You're right. Self-meta is bad. You're also acting ridiculously scummy. Even if we were actually scum, ending the day super fast is the exact last thing to do.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Of course, RR is acting exactly like I did in SU...

Stop it. I didn't spend my small amount of time sitting up while dealing with a decubitus ulcer investing in getting your help for you to veer off into paranoia mode.

Look at what's happening right now. Help us put the freaking brakes on. Even if we had a cop guilty, we wouldn't want to end THIS day fast, let alone in just a few hours. It's scummy as fuck that this push to get the day ended so fast is happening, and if you posit us as town, it's even more scummy since I outed the fact that our event rewards an investigate and so scum can kill 2 birds with one stone if they can rush our lynch through.

Please re-read the opening day post event info and then help us slow this madness down. The scum team is going to get a huge advantage if they can get this day rushed. We have two nights to counteract their event and ask yourself if you want to trust everyone to decide what to do or if it should be discussed and a plan put into place. Personally, I'd like to have a plan in place both to try and counteract the event and also because a plan in place and agreed to has the secondary benefit of restricting what scum can get away with doing.

This mad rush to end the day a few hours in has scum written all over it.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Because scum distance from other scum who are about to die.

Gee, I wonder what I've been calling your posts in regards to SirCakez?

SC doesn't get lynched yesterday without our posting against him and our vote making things seem inevitable. I mean, this is arguable, but there is a HUGE difference between distancing when someone is at l-1, and casing and voting someone at a time where doing so makes them the only viable lynch.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Because scum distance from other scum who are about to die.

Gee, I wonder what I've been calling your posts in regards to SirCakez?

So your theory is that we first put in a bunch of effort to make a case and convince people to lynch SC, but then we wanted to distance from that? What the hell?

@all

- We're literally a few hours into the day phase and Farside is claiming to be unilaterally deciding to end the day. This coming right as I point out what might be a slip by her, and she's in a gigantic hurry to get us dead and the day over, despite a pretty huge elephant in the room that needs to be discussed.

Her push to try and get us dead and the day over is ridiculously over the top scummy. We give out an investigate in a game where there are not likely to be many others (if any). That is something that will be voted on and there's two obvious conftowns so if we live, that hurts scum. Furthermore, there's a scum event that got triggered. Go look at the start of day post and think. What would happen if the day suddenly ends super fast and alliances aren't worked out and no discussion goes on about how to try and blunt the scum event that was announced?

Only scum want this day to end fast.

~D

Well I plan on vig shooting you by that time, but it ends the day.
So you can try to explain why I didn't do that day 1 are you die at noon and I don't care.

And after day 1 shit Strom I think most players might be happy for a short day.

You basically just scum claimed.


~D

[Reasonably Rational]

@Farside, Please don't end the day if you can.

I want to hear from DGB why we have no alliance. I need to get in sync with Beeboy. I also need to do the reread I promised Shiro.

Fine.
I'll be nice because I was an ass day 1.
How much time you want?

If you're town, I want you to go read the day opening post until you understand what is written there. Then I want you to walk away from the game and come back and look at things logically. We're not scum and if you Vig us, you will be wasting the shot as well as depriving us of our event, which there is finally enough stress for us to trigger.

If you're scum, then everything you've done (especially trying to rush the day and avoid letting us put together a plan to respond to the scum event) makes perfect sense.

Use your head, not your emotions.

~D