Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[House]

Man, I really want rb to be town so I can gloat post-game.

We should lynch Math. He is scum.

PEdit - Nah.

Oh boy, where have I seen this one before

Remember when you were scum telling me how sorry I'd be for mislynching you? Then you flipped scum. Also I still don't think you realise even if you flipped town I still would have said it was your own shitty play that got you lynched. I have zero sympathy for players who get mislynched as town, it's their own fault.

You're being scummy as fuck right now and if you're town you can blame your own shit play, nothing else.

Tempted to vote rb for this shit post alone.

[Dierfire]

@MathBlade

Based on this vote count and the vote count on me Expedience and Saru likely scum possibly with Blue Blooded Toffee. This lynch happened way too fast especially since I know I am town.

Was the logic here that, with you and Glitch voting for Martha, there should also have been Mafia players voting there as well? What do you make of the VC in 550 if that's the case? Martha had partially hinted at her role in 578.

Actually, I still want an answer, but something else occurs to me.

UNVOTE: MathBlade

[MathBlade]

Saru looks a hell of a lot worse. TBH I haven't done every vote count for VCA and probably won't get around to it until night if I can.

[MathBlade]

I know there has to be scum in BBT RB Saru and Expedience.

If I could NK them all I probably would without a care in the world because the majority are probably scum.

[House]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

House, answer these too please.

Thanks for replacing in btw. Good to see a familiar face.

#2 - This round goes to BBT... which is surprising, considering I wanted him to be scum. rb's jump on him for meta, then later ignoring of BBT's counter-meta that refutes those meta accusations, is just all kinds of slimy.

(...since I've seen the show, not since I know you. Ha... It was funny to me, shut up)

[House]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

House, answer these too please.

Thanks for replacing in btw. Good to see a familiar face.

#2 - This round goes to BBT... which is surprising, considering I wanted him to be scum. rb's jump on him for meta, then later ignoring of BBT's counter-meta that refutes those meta accusations, is just all kinds of slimy.

Fix't

[Dierfire]

@Chuck

I think that you may have missed some of my questions to you:

@Chuck

You are reading gameplay506 as Town (945). Why?

@Chuck

I agreed with your thought in 1364 that the "claim duel" looked unlikely from a Mafia player given that Glitch flipped Town, so I was surprised that you reconsidered in 1470. Why would Expedience do that as Mafia?

Also, I noticed that I'd missed some of your questions to me--my apologies!

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.
2. I'm still reading rb as Town. Nothing that BBT said made me especially suspicious, but I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads. So, if I were to choose one to lynch, it would be BBT.
3. I'm still reading Expedience as Town. I read your 1470 but am unconvinced. Among other things: if Expedience is Mafia and killed Martha so as to set up RyanK to be lynched, why does Expedience never vote for RyanK, or claim to be suspicious of RyanK? It seems strange to me that a Mafia player would create a plan of this specificity (set up RyanK, specifically) but leave the detail work to Town. In fact, I'm not sure that RyanK received a single vote this phase.

[House]

I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads.

So?

I have experience with town!BBT doing exactly that, and I do as well.

Not that I have any particular feels for BBT, but when somebody starts badmouthing a playstyle that I share as scummy when I do the same exact things as town too, I'm going to speak up about it because condemning somebody because you don't like their playstyle is facile.

[MathBlade]

@Chuck

I think that you may have missed some of my questions to you:

@Chuck

You are reading gameplay506 as Town (945). Why?

@Chuck

I agreed with your thought in 1364 that the "claim duel" looked unlikely from a Mafia player given that Glitch flipped Town, so I was surprised that you reconsidered in 1470. Why would Expedience do that as Mafia?

Also, I noticed that I'd missed some of your questions to me--my apologies!

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.
2. I'm still reading rb as Town. Nothing that BBT said made me especially suspicious, but I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads. So, if I were to choose one to lynch, it would be BBT.
3. I'm still reading Expedience as Town. I read your 1470 but am unconvinced. Among other things: if Expedience is Mafia and killed Martha so as to set up RyanK to be lynched, why does Expedience never vote for RyanK, or claim to be suspicious of RyanK? It seems strange to me that a Mafia player would create a plan of this specificity (set up RyanK, specifically) but leave the detail work to Town. In fact, I'm not sure that RyanK received a single vote this phase.

Assume RB is scum. Who is scum with him?

Repeat for BBT Expedience and Saru.

[MathBlade]

Also who do you have as a scum read Dierfire?

[House]

@Chuck

I think that you may have missed some of my questions to you:

@Chuck

You are reading gameplay506 as Town (945). Why?

@Chuck

I agreed with your thought in 1364 that the "claim duel" looked unlikely from a Mafia player given that Glitch flipped Town, so I was surprised that you reconsidered in 1470. Why would Expedience do that as Mafia?

Also, I noticed that I'd missed some of your questions to me--my apologies!

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.
2. I'm still reading rb as Town. Nothing that BBT said made me especially suspicious, but I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads. So, if I were to choose one to lynch, it would be BBT.
3. I'm still reading Expedience as Town. I read your 1470 but am unconvinced. Among other things: if Expedience is Mafia and killed Martha so as to set up RyanK to be lynched, why does Expedience never vote for RyanK, or claim to be suspicious of RyanK? It seems strange to me that a Mafia player would create a plan of this specificity (set up RyanK, specifically) but leave the detail work to Town. In fact, I'm not sure that RyanK received a single vote this phase.

Assume RB is scum.

Who is scum with him?

Repeat for BBT Expedience and Saru.

Why would you ask someone to assume that after 1831?

[Expedience]

Hi?

[House]

You have the charisma of a slug

http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/20 ... arisma5558

Slugs are one of the most charismatic animals ever.

rb - 1
gamescrub - 0

Ok... I loled.

[House]

Reads:

Naomi
Pitoli
golden009

gameplay
ryan
martha

dierfire

Scum is pink because red is mod colour.

Anyone not included I have to re-read.

So, gameplay looks to be in the null category, along with ryan and martha under him... presumably making gameplay slightly more town. But..

Like I said Naomi's post WAS bad. Gameplay is being sketchy af and Dierfire's sheeping and reasoning for sheeping is awful.

Going from Naomi to being suspicious of gameplay's style of discrediting the most vocal player in the game, not even trying to ascertain my motives and instead just jumping straight to 'rb is butthurt bad player' is really gross from a player who's apparently decent and/or experienced. Dierfire's vote WAS terrible.

Golden009 picked up on all the important thing I'd expect a town player to have picked up on upon entering and reading this thread. They're town for now.

p-edit: @Naomi: you do realise that all Dierfire did in his post 131 is throw a bunch of shade and then fence-sit?

"I don't mind the reactions", "I don't like this, but it's mitigated by...."

Dierfire is doing literally nothing in this game, they're not solving it by a longshot. If they're town, they're a townbeard. If they're scum, they're buddying. Neither one is favourable.

~

Yes NAI is Non-Alignment Indicative.

No mention of ryan or martha when you're explaining your reads, which list gameplay as "sketchy af", when ryan and martha are listed below gameplay? Why?

[Expedience]

Ah, a replace after all. Welcome Mathblade

The VT claim sounds legit, Math doesn't look like the best lynch anymore, so:

UNVOTE: Mathblade
And my vote goes to:
VOTE: Expedience
Mostly for post 1639. Chuck is definitely scum, Mathblade/Golden is meh, but your vote stays on the big wagon - yeah right.

Yes, I am voting a null / slight scum read because they have a larger wagon, this is called compromising.

[House]

Unlikely scumpartners:

Gameplay/Ryan
Martha/Gameplay
Cass/Dierfire
Martha/Dierfire
Cass/Martha

Explain? Curious how you got these specifically.

Ryan is like Gameplay's only target today. Ryan wasn't hesitant to vote Gameplay at all.
Martha was willing to ride Gameplay to lynch. Gameplay scumreads Martha.
Feels like both Cass/Martha are willing to lynch Dierfire. Pretty sure Dierfire wanted one of these lynched.
Cass/Martha interactions look genuine, doesn't seem Scum vs. Scum to me at all.

I'm less sure about the Dierfire ones now because they've just ended up on Golden. This stuff changes as the game goes on but I think that regardless of what happens gameplay/Ryan would be unlikely scumbuddies. If one of them flips scum the other is basically conftown imo. The others aren't nearly that strong. Also I do make sure to look for distancing type behaviours - honestly Glitch on Chuck looks like that. He gets on the same wagon as Chuck but he's like, "I can't really sort you Chuck help me dude" - that's scummy as fuck forced interaction from my POV.

Also I'm fairly happy with those non-scumbuddy combinations because Cass is a strong townread so it makes sense that she's there twice. Martha/Dierfire are townlean, Ryan is townread. Gameplay is only scumread there, along with Glitch. But he hasn't interacted enough to say who would or wouldn't be a scumbuddy.

I really like this post. It limits his options and locks him into stances that scum would normally avoid doing.

[House]

Unlikely scumpartners:

Gameplay/Ryan
Martha/Gameplay
Cass/Dierfire
Martha/Dierfire
Cass/Martha

Explain? Curious how you got these specifically.

Ryan is like Gameplay's only target today. Ryan wasn't hesitant to vote Gameplay at all.
Martha was willing to ride Gameplay to lynch. Gameplay scumreads Martha.
Feels like both Cass/Martha are willing to lynch Dierfire. Pretty sure Dierfire wanted one of these lynched.
Cass/Martha interactions look genuine, doesn't seem Scum vs. Scum to me at all.

I'm less sure about the Dierfire ones now because they've just ended up on Golden. This stuff changes as the game goes on but I think that regardless of what happens gameplay/Ryan would be unlikely scumbuddies. If one of them flips scum the other is basically conftown imo. The others aren't nearly that strong. Also I do make sure to look for distancing type behaviours - honestly Glitch on Chuck looks like that. He gets on the same wagon as Chuck but he's like, "I can't really sort you Chuck help me dude" - that's scummy as fuck forced interaction from my POV.

Also I'm fairly happy with those non-scumbuddy combinations because Cass is a strong townread so it makes sense that she's there twice. Martha/Dierfire are townlean, Ryan is townread. Gameplay is only scumread there, along with Glitch. But he hasn't interacted enough to say who would or wouldn't be a scumbuddy.

I really like this post. It limits his options and locks him into stances that scum would normally avoid doing.

Also rb, I notice you didn't list Cass/gameplay (me) as unlikely scumbuddies. Oversight, or is that a possible association in your theory?

[House]

And do Ryan's hypothetical scumpartners let him continue playing like this all game even when there's daychat? He's a new player, he'd ask for advice right? His partners would attempt to assist him, right?

He keeps getting scumread for the shit he's doing, but he still does it anyway, right? Why? If he was scum, he'd try to do something differently or find a way of playing that didn't get him scumread by like the entire fkn game. Unless he's just some godlike-reverse-psychology-super-god at mafia, he's not scum. It's his SECOND GAME...of course he's bad - and bad play is bad play regardless of alignment. Good play looks pretty much the same as either alignment since good play = convincing town to lynch your targets and getting townreads. The only difference is you're ideally lynching scum as town, but even good town make mistakes.

A bad player will look bad no matter what alignment they are, so if the argument is Ryan is bad and therefore scum? Nope. Not going there. Find why Ryan is scum for being scum, not scum for being bad. This wagon is a massive red flag from my POV.

#goodposting

[MathBlade]

@Chuck

I think that you may have missed some of my questions to you:

@Chuck

You are reading gameplay506 as Town (945). Why?

@Chuck

I agreed with your thought in 1364 that the "claim duel" looked unlikely from a Mafia player given that Glitch flipped Town, so I was surprised that you reconsidered in 1470. Why would Expedience do that as Mafia?

Also, I noticed that I'd missed some of your questions to me--my apologies!

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.
2. I'm still reading rb as Town. Nothing that BBT said made me especially suspicious, but I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads. So, if I were to choose one to lynch, it would be BBT.
3. I'm still reading Expedience as Town. I read your 1470 but am unconvinced. Among other things: if Expedience is Mafia and killed Martha so as to set up RyanK to be lynched, why does Expedience never vote for RyanK, or claim to be suspicious of RyanK? It seems strange to me that a Mafia player would create a plan of this specificity (set up RyanK, specifically) but leave the detail work to Town. In fact, I'm not sure that RyanK received a single vote this phase.

Assume RB is scum.

Who is scum with him?

Repeat for BBT Expedience and Saru.

Why would you ask someone to assume that after 1831?

Because that post lists nothing but townreads and I thought it suspicious. I wanted to see how Dierfire would analyze it from other angles. Combined with the whole town read of me for "reasons" I find suspicious so I wanted to see how Dierfire was thinking. It isn't about my reads I wanted his to evaluate him.

[House]

This is like the 10th time I've had scum do exactly what Gameplay is doing. He has no real case. His game has been weak and nothing, but he pretends like he's mortally offended by me or something and that I'm "disgusting" when he goes around calling people Village Idiot, terrible etc.

The point here not being that he said those things, it's that he's obviously a person with some edge - not some limpwristed pansy who runs away from a bit of conflict in a thread. Conflict which revolves around me scumreading him, I haven't even made any personal insults but he's running away tail tucked between his legs. Gameplay is scum. Book it.

Having some insight on the matter, I have to say your reasoning is flawed. If Ryan can be bad!town, why can't gameplay?

Having mislynched them before myself, I can kinda understand the urge, but I find it odd that you would defend Ryan (though I like the way you do so because of the insight you provided), yet condemn gameplay.

Was it because he was tunneling you and the ad hom attacks?

[MathBlade]

House what are you feeling right now?

[Expedience]

I'd rather not respond to Math's meta case because meta takes ages to sort through and I don't have the time, nor patience, to do so.

Rb already trying to absolve himself of any responsibility of my lynch. Rb be scum.

Math/rb/Chuck is where I'm at.

Just quote us two games where MathBlade's meta argument is inaccurate.

I think rb is town because he has approximately 25% the concentration of "tbh" than in another game I checked.

Also, he's finding rhythm. (this is actually the primary reason)

[Expedience]

I think rb is town because he has approximately 25% the concentration of "tbh" than in another game I checked.

Also, he's finding rhythm. (this is actually the primary reason)

[House]

For him to pull off this act (if it was an act) of reverse-psychology-scumlord would require him to actually be really, really good at the game. Good enough to be capable of recognizing what is and isn't a useful thing to say and to consistently keep up this persona, even through high pressure (he's at L-2) and to continuously be able to come up with enough material to keep himself in that range of never actually contributing that much but also still being coherently incoherent. RyanK is the most obvious town that ever obvious towned.

Careful making such assumptions. I was in a game not that long ago where the newbtown read blazed to a glorious victory for her scum team.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67031

[House]

House what are you feeling right now?

After reviewing BBT's ISO, he feels town. I'm halfway through rb's and I have found content that both pleases and disturbs me. I'm not nearly as intent on scumreading him as I was when I started the ISO, but I remain uneasy with giving him a townread. Still more reading to do on him, we'll see how that ends.