Mini Normal 1825 - Game Over

[MathBlade]

Emotionally what are you feeling?

[Expedience]

This large wagon swing makes me feel like scum were definitely in on it, even if not necessarily leading it.

I agree with Glitch however, that if he flips town, Expedience looks more town due to the claim duel thing.

That makes me suspect that either/both of RyanK and Martha Zolanski would be the scum he was a counter wagon to.

The fact that he was mostly gone during his wagon's growth is also a deciding factor in that it was a bad wagon.

It's disappointing that you guys didn't at least wait until I got back. Pushing through a wagon on the weekend is bad form even when people haven't announced V/LA.

This is immediately after Glitch was hammered. I feel like this post is expecting Glitch to flip town because it only overs scenarios where this is the case. like he starts with "if he flips town" then devolves into outright assumption

It's unreasonable for town!Chuck to presume a town flip here, his post where he realized he wa hammered actually looked like a scumclaim to me (since it showed his aim was survival (however his play before that was pretty town and made my heart sink reading it)). Chuck never took a stance on Glitch, just let it happen and then tried to set up new pushes afterwards, but he did it slightly too prematurely.

The CLAIM DUEL thing is something that happened a while ago, Glitch didn't really bring anything revelatory to light there. Chuck could've made his own evaluation of the CLAIM DUEL when he made that post about how oddly interested he was in the claims of two town members. This is a really unnatural progression and shows that he didn't really believe all the crap he was throwing at me before. All the suspicion on me is completely gone! It's probably because he mistakenly thought I was a PR (and didn't notice that Martha was one?).

VOTE: Chuck

So you're voting Chuck, who dropped his suspicion of you because he thought you were a PR, and killed Martha, who WAS a PR... that he didn't notice was one?

Please explain, I'm confused as shit.

Yes, that's what I wrote.

On second thought, it's more likely that he backed down because he thought I wouldn't get lynched, or scumread Martha because wanted to look town for scumreading the guy who got killed, and whether or not we were PRs had nothing to do with it. I don't think it really matters but at the time I was anxious to work things out.

[Expedience]

I know there has to be scum in BBT RB Saru and Expedience.

inb4 all town

[House]

Spoiler: Not Really Game Related

Like Dierfire has nearly triple your posts and up until this point you've barely posted. You have like 5 posts in a few hours, but for the other 2 weeks of gametime you've had 12.

So fuck off with this, "Dierfire must be lurkerscum if I am by your own definition!" you dickhead, because Dierfire's lurkiness is not even in the same fucking solar system as what yours has been.

I understood when you got upset over the ad hom attacks against you, but what I don't understand is why you'd do the same to someone else when those attacks offend you. Seems kinda double-standardish... NAI, because I'm sure it's just a personality thing... just saying...

[House]

@Mathblade

Spoiler: Not Game Related

Emotionally what are you feeling?

This is a strange avenue for such a question, but numb. I mean, it's cool to be in a game with some familiar faces, but my overall estimation of this site has been severely compromised for reasons that aren't worth dragging a game down over.

[MathBlade]

Actually it was because something is off. Not sure if it is scum related or House related. Keeping an eye out:

[House]

This large wagon swing makes me feel like scum were definitely in on it, even if not necessarily leading it.

I agree with Glitch however, that if he flips town, Expedience looks more town due to the claim duel thing.

That makes me suspect that either/both of RyanK and Martha Zolanski would be the scum he was a counter wagon to.

The fact that he was mostly gone during his wagon's growth is also a deciding factor in that it was a bad wagon.

It's disappointing that you guys didn't at least wait until I got back. Pushing through a wagon on the weekend is bad form even when people haven't announced V/LA.

This is immediately after Glitch was hammered. I feel like this post is expecting Glitch to flip town because it only overs scenarios where this is the case. like he starts with "if he flips town" then devolves into outright assumption

It's unreasonable for town!Chuck to presume a town flip here, his post where he realized he wa hammered actually looked like a scumclaim to me (since it showed his aim was survival (however his play before that was pretty town and made my heart sink reading it)). Chuck never took a stance on Glitch, just let it happen and then tried to set up new pushes afterwards, but he did it slightly too prematurely.

The CLAIM DUEL thing is something that happened a while ago, Glitch didn't really bring anything revelatory to light there. Chuck could've made his own evaluation of the CLAIM DUEL when he made that post about how oddly interested he was in the claims of two town members. This is a really unnatural progression and shows that he didn't really believe all the crap he was throwing at me before. All the suspicion on me is completely gone! It's probably because he mistakenly thought I was a PR (and didn't notice that Martha was one?).

VOTE: Chuck

So you're voting Chuck, who dropped his suspicion of you because he thought you were a PR, and killed Martha, who WAS a PR... that he didn't notice was one?

Please explain, I'm confused as shit.

Yes, that's what I wrote.

On second thought, it's more likely that he backed down because he thought I wouldn't get lynched, or scumread Martha because wanted to look town for scumreading the guy who got killed, and whether or not we were PRs had nothing to do with it. I don't think it really matters but at the time I was anxious to work things out.

Scumreading the guy that got killed wouldn't make him look town. If anything, it would incriminate him because it's indicative that he wanted that player dead, if he's scum.

Sure it matters. If you see flawed reasoning, it's best to correct it to prevent such reasoning from infecting future games.

[House]

Actually it was because something is off. Not sure if it is scum related or House related. Keeping an eye out:

Yeah well, let's see how well you rebound if you get banned for the same duration as a piece of shit game terrorist that takes an entire game hostage simply because you didn't buckle to his demands and allowed your frustrations to boil over in other games.

It's going to be a while before you see the House you know and tolerate. Right now, I'm just happy keeping myself from razing the boards.

[Expedience]

rb, do you still think the House slot is scum?

[Expedience]

This large wagon swing makes me feel like scum were definitely in on it, even if not necessarily leading it.

I agree with Glitch however, that if he flips town, Expedience looks more town due to the claim duel thing.

That makes me suspect that either/both of RyanK and Martha Zolanski would be the scum he was a counter wagon to.

The fact that he was mostly gone during his wagon's growth is also a deciding factor in that it was a bad wagon.

It's disappointing that you guys didn't at least wait until I got back. Pushing through a wagon on the weekend is bad form even when people haven't announced V/LA.

This is immediately after Glitch was hammered. I feel like this post is expecting Glitch to flip town because it only overs scenarios where this is the case. like he starts with "if he flips town" then devolves into outright assumption

It's unreasonable for town!Chuck to presume a town flip here, his post where he realized he wa hammered actually looked like a scumclaim to me (since it showed his aim was survival (however his play before that was pretty town and made my heart sink reading it)). Chuck never took a stance on Glitch, just let it happen and then tried to set up new pushes afterwards, but he did it slightly too prematurely.

The CLAIM DUEL thing is something that happened a while ago, Glitch didn't really bring anything revelatory to light there. Chuck could've made his own evaluation of the CLAIM DUEL when he made that post about how oddly interested he was in the claims of two town members. This is a really unnatural progression and shows that he didn't really believe all the crap he was throwing at me before. All the suspicion on me is completely gone! It's probably because he mistakenly thought I was a PR (and didn't notice that Martha was one?).

VOTE: Chuck

So you're voting Chuck, who dropped his suspicion of you because he thought you were a PR, and killed Martha, who WAS a PR... that he didn't notice was one?

Please explain, I'm confused as shit.

Yes, that's what I wrote.

On second thought, it's more likely that he backed down because he thought I wouldn't get lynched, or scumread Martha because wanted to look town for scumreading the guy who got killed, and whether or not we were PRs had nothing to do with it. I don't think it really matters but at the time I was anxious to work things out.

Scumreading the guy that got killed wouldn't make him look town. If anything, it would incriminate him because it's indicative that he wanted that player dead, if he's scum.

I treat it as a towntell because I would never kill someone I could mislynch or could continue to tunnel to look town. Apart from you, I haven't seen anyone before who thinks this way of trying to mislynch their threats.

Sure it matters. If you see flawed reasoning, it's best to correct it to prevent such reasoning from infecting future games.

A noble aim

[House]

I treat it as a towntell because I would never kill someone I could mislynch or could continue to tunnel to look town. Apart from you, I haven't seen anyone before who thinks this way of trying to mislynch their threats.

Then you've played with terrible scum. Mislynching threats is optimal because it leaves the NK open for PR fishing.

[House]

I think I might be done for tonight. idk.

[House]

I know there has to be scum in BBT RB Saru and Expedience.

inb4 all town

Not really. There are nine players alive. Pick half of the players still living, and you're likely to have scum in the mix, especially when no scum have flipped yet.

[House]

This gives me an idea...

Everybody pick four top scumreads. Compare everybody's top four. Lynch the player that is most widely scumread among all players.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi House!

I'd lynch Math, Rb, Dier and then maybe Cass.

[MathBlade]

This gives me an idea...

Everybody pick four top scumreads. Compare everybody's top four. Lynch the player that is most widely scumread among all players.

House. I love you. Go to bed.

Everyone's reads out there is good.

Announcing the end result of that is bad because scum can finagle to mislynch.

[Chuck]

@Chuck

I think that you may have missed some of my questions to you.

Apologies.

@Chuck

You are reading gameplay506 as Town (945). Why?

What I said in 945 was that Martha seemed scummy, rb seemed very town, and gameplay seemed town as well. The rb/gameplay fight seemed very town vs. town, so that was my reasoning at the time, however, those are pretty old reads, relatively speaking. I have gameplay/House as a town lean but not really solid. rb I have more as a question mark, but with a higher gamma than gameplay. I figure that will work itself out by the end of today, but the fact that neither of them have been afraid to throw their weight around works in their favor. Also, I like House so far.

@Chuck

I agreed with your thought in 1364 that the "claim duel" looked unlikely from a Mafia player given that Glitch flipped Town, so I was surprised that you reconsidered in 1470. Why would Expedience do that as Mafia?

Overconfidence. His play has been rank with it.

When he butted heads with me in earnest, however, and he saw the extent of my dedication to his lynch, look how quickly he backed down. He was like an attention-deficit raccoon that saw a shinier coin somewhere else, and scurried off in another direction. Another reason to lynch him; he doesn't believe in the agenda he's pushing.

[Chuck]

Saru, Dierfire, pitoli, and Cass, what do you think about:

1. MathBlade?
2. rb vs. BBT?
3. Expedience?

1. I want to discuss things more with MathBlade, but I suspect that I will end up reading her as Town for reasons that I will discuss afterward.
2. I'm still reading rb as Town. Nothing that BBT said made me especially suspicious, but I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads. So, if I were to choose one to lynch, it would be BBT.
3. I'm still reading Expedience as Town. I read your 1470 but am unconvinced. Among other things: if Expedience is Mafia and killed Martha so as to set up RyanK to be lynched, why does Expedience never vote for RyanK, or claim to be suspicious of RyanK? It seems strange to me that a Mafia player would create a plan of this specificity (set up RyanK, specifically) but leave the detail work to Town. In fact, I'm not sure that RyanK received a single vote this phase.

1. I believe you are correct.

2. So you read them both as town? I see a lot of town reads here. Who are your scum reads?

3. One does not simply do exactly what someone else has called them out as setting up the playing field to try to accomplish. That would not be advisable as scum. However, notice Expedience has dropped me like a bad habit and has been mostly trying to pretend I don't exist. His activity has also dropped sharply since I started exerting pressure on him D2. He's trying to fade into the woodwork. Don't let him. Vote him.

[Chuck]

I don't like that he's not answering my questions or explaining reads.

So?

I have experience with town!BBT doing exactly that, and I do as well.

"So?" Really?

So, that's

bad

,

regardless

of alignment, that's what's "so."

[Expedience]

I'm semi-ignoring you because I don't enjoy interacting with you.

I was inactive because I was studying for my exam which was today.

[Expedience]

This gives me an idea...

Everybody pick four top scumreads. Compare everybody's top four. Lynch the player that is most widely scumread among all players.

Chuck, Cass, Mathblade. I don't have a fourth. Maybe pitoli or rb?

[Chuck]

Ah, a replace after all. Welcome Mathblade

The VT claim sounds legit, Math doesn't look like the best lynch anymore, so:

UNVOTE: Mathblade
And my vote goes to:
VOTE: Expedience
Mostly for post 1639. Chuck is definitely scum, Mathblade/Golden is meh, but your vote stays on the big wagon - yeah right.

Yes, I am voting a null / slight scum read because they have a larger wagon, this is called compromising.

No, it is called de-escalation, in hopes that I'll lose sight of the fact that you are definitely scum, and look elsewhere, "compromising," as has been a particularly pervasive buzzword throughout this game.

[Expedience]

This gives me an idea...

Everybody pick four top scumreads. Compare everybody's top four. Lynch the player that is most widely scumread among all players.

you got it friend!

[Expedience]

you got it friend!

ebwop

[rb]

For him to pull off this act (if it was an act) of reverse-psychology-scumlord would require him to actually be really, really good at the game. Good enough to be capable of recognizing what is and isn't a useful thing to say and to consistently keep up this persona, even through high pressure (he's at L-2) and to continuously be able to come up with enough material to keep himself in that range of never actually contributing that much but also still being coherently incoherent. RyanK is the most obvious town that ever obvious towned.

Careful making such assumptions. I was in a game not that long ago where the newbtown read blazed to a glorious victory for her scum team.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67031

About to head home and then hit the gym, but I'll post more this weekend. Was that boring? I know her outside game, she's very, very intelligent and has a knack for this kind of game - it's an outlier not the norm imo. But fair enough that you bring it up.