STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[mastin2]

Explain in detail. Because Snarky is never Town in games. Ever. So him appearing as such to you gives me huge pause.

You quoted my post, here, but I think that was in error, because my read on SnarkySnowman is second-strongest scumread. (Kraska being the strongest.) Meaning, I actually agree with you that he looks like scum. (And the post in question had nothing to do whatsoever with SnarkySnowman anyway.)

So much so, that he's actually my secondary lynch preference. (I recognize that kraskaesque, as a top-voter, is someone people will hesitate to lynch, for that reason, though why on earth people would hesitate to lynch kraskaesque when farside was ALSO a top voter and she's the dominant wagon, I have no clue. But I digress.) If kraskaesque isn't the lynch today, I'd actually want it to be SnarkySnowman, because a serious question to ask IS:
Who, exactly, is townreading him, and what is their reason for doing so?

@rR/Mastina, guys I literally just put up where I was on the scumteam and got no comment from either of you?

I don't like poking holes in the logic of conftown players who I'm working with, and that's pretty much all I'd be doing, so that's why I skipped commentary.
You say scum in the no claimers, maybe all of them.
Yet you're advocating for a lynch on farside...who is mod-confirmed no matter what to be a top-voter.
You say there's scum who focused on the mechanics, but who would that be? What players in the game focus on mechanics? Literally the only names I can think of are you/me/RR/MoI. The entire rest of the game I don't see as mechanically-focused players.
You say Skybird is likely scum, while knowing this is mutually exclusive with farside being scum. Aside from the unlikelihood of the scenario in the first place. This also ignores your top-voter part, because Skybird is confirmed no matter what to be a top-voter.

So in short: your scumreads make no sense.

[mastin2]

my eyes are bleeding is that normal

If you actually tried reading kraskaesque's wall of text?

Then yes.

I mean, I suppose you

could

read it, if you needed any further evidence for why kraska's scum, but otherwise...

[MagnaofIllusion]

You quoted my post, here, but I think that was in error, because my read on SnarkySnowman is second-strongest scumread.

Yes, that was a copy paste error. I was meaning to address whoever said "He looks Town in the hood".

[mastin2]

Shadow seemed town last page

^This.

Granted, I happen to think randomidget's not so town in saying this, but his point holds true regardless of his alignment: Shadow_step

seriously

towned it up on page 312, in an incredibly-natural, organic way. I could still feasibly see him as scum...but I

very

much sincerely doubt he actually is scum.

kraska scum game is more lurky with very little reason for scum reads.

Okay.

Serious question.

If this isn't a lurky game with very little reason for scumreads.

What the fucking hell

is

?!?

Because, um.
Yeah.

That's basically the HEART of my case on kraskaesque: their absolute lurkfest of an iso with very little reasoning for their scumreads, spanning across the whole game.

[grapes]

Spoiler:

Go to sleep, thread is closed. Wake up, 7 pages. Good thing I have time to do this now.

Uh wat

KTS bro you should ally with me

VOTE: Farside

Snarky, vote RR.

Nah not interested atm

Hey farside! Does your town read on Cakez still stand?

Especially after calling creature "perfect null" and then putting him not in the nullpile. (see 934)

I disagree with like... 90% of that. grapes / farside are like nullscum at least. Creature is a lot more town, xkyfu is pretty town, Obi is pretty town.

VOTE: SirCakez

VOTE: farside

Well, now I'm like 35 pages behind wp guys

VOTE: Cakez

VOTE: cakez
VOTE: cakez
VOTE: cakez
VOTE: cakez
VOTE: cakez

I can get on board with this I guess

VOTE: Mathblade

VOTE: DGB

Re-read the iso, looked at what klingy said, I think this is a little bit obvious

Mathblade is town. Titus is town. Stop confbiasing the shit out of each other pls

Well, DGB I think is town but reasonable minds can disagree.

Why argue about it. Klingy's flip should definitively say whether or not DGB is scum, wait for that.

Fuzzy, would you be up for allying?

back off scum i called it first

I'm 100% willing to switch to a skybird wagon.

Farside is scum and will be gotten back to later.
DGB will be sorted out with klingoncelt's flip.

All of snarky's posts that stuck out to me after a second look.

[grapes]

I remember his vote on cakes being a bit more substantiated than just "I disagree with you a lot"

[Xkfyu]

@Mod: V/LA for the weekend.

[mastin2]

I suspect MoI as possible as the tactician.

Another problem with this: MoI wasn't in the game until recently.
As scum, he'd be forced to quickly improvise if he took the mantle of scum tactician, no? It's not impossible, especially if he read more thoroughly than we were led to believe. But it's still got a flaw:
Do you think the scum's actions so far in the game showed no tactician N1 and only started to have one N2?
Because if not, then any scum tactician would have already been in the game prior to that. I of course, largely refer to the N1 scum event. General consensus seems to be that was a calculated move on their part, yes? So, it'd have to be someone who was in the game already, and Killthestory is many things but a scum tactician is not among them.

[Yume]

I suspect MoI as possible as the tactician.

Another problem with this: MoI wasn't in the game until recently.
As scum, he'd be forced to quickly improvise if he took the mantle of scum tactician, no? It's not impossible, especially if he read more thoroughly than we were led to believe. But it's still got a flaw:
Do you think the scum's actions so far in the game showed no tactician N1 and only started to have one N2?
Because if not, then any scum tactician would have already been in the game prior to that. I of course, largely refer to the N1 scum event. General consensus seems to be that was a calculated move on their part, yes? So, it'd have to be someone who was in the game already, and Killthestory is many things but a scum tactician is not among them.

You forgot what I told you in our PT?

[mastin2]

I remember his vote on cakes being a bit more substantiated than just "I disagree with you a lot"

Oh, there was that much to it?

I thought it was just literally a naked vote in prime, optimum bussing range.

[mastin2]

You forgot what I told you in our PT?

No. I'm talking to Titus about flaws in her logic, since she asked me to. And her logic for MoI being scum is inherently flawed. So quite the opposite.

[grapes]

I remember his vote on cakes being a bit more substantiated than just "I disagree with you a lot"

Oh, there was that much to it?

I thought it was just literally a naked vote in prime, optimum bussing range.

What sold me was him asking farside about her cakes townread.

[mastin2]

SirCakez (LYNCH):

McMenno

,

grapes

,

Shiro

,

Xkfyu

,

SnarkySnowman, Kraskaeaque

,

Reasonably Rational

Farside22 (3):

killthestory

, Firebringer,

Almost50

Shiro (2):

Farside22, Skybird

McMenno (2):

Thefuzzylogic99

Obi-Wan Kenobi (1):

SirCakez

Not Voting (5):

Foxbird, randomidget, TheWayItEnds, DrippingGoofball,

Creature

Not quite accurate, but deleted = no chance of being scum, strikethrough = strong (maybe mechanical) reason to believe not scum, underline = strong read as not scum, italics = weaker (less-substantiated, speculative) reason to not be scum.

SirCakez had no effective counterwagon. You can see spots where scum could, feasibly, be (Firebringer/fuzzylogic), but otherwise, the entirety of the possible locations for scum are: on the SirCakez wagon, and in the Not Voting pile.

And if you look at SnarkySnowman/kraskaesque, they do literally join

right

at the prime bussing spot, at a time where his lynch was inevitable. So, half the scumteam on his wagon, the other half off it.
The number of people Not Voting there is suspicious, no?
It's almost as if scum knew SirCakez was flipping scum, knew that lynch couldn't be stopped, and were trying to avoid being caught on it.

Also, run a cross-reference of the names on Not Voting/SirCakez with the names of those who claimed to have not voted/voted not in the top in the Beach event. RR, kraskaesque, Xkfyu, and grapes are literally the only four excluded. ALL of McMenno/Shiro/SnarkySnowman/Shadow_step/randomidget/TWIE/DGB fall in the grouping of worthless/no votes. Now, I have reason to believe McMenno is town. I also have reason to believe Shiro is town.
Giving a more limited pool of SnarkySnowman/Shadow_step/randomidget/TWIE/DGB.
With a weak townread on TWIE, we get SS/S_S/randomidget/DGB.

And, if we assume that the game started with four groupscum and a traitor...then we can assume AT LEAST three scum in those four names. Four, if you think all the top-voters are town.

Given this, and I hate to do this given it'll kill the kraskaesque wagon's momentum:
VOTE: SnarkySnowman.

I really think we should do this.
He looks bad by play. (Isoing him shows this.)
He also looks incredibly bad by pattern recognition in his votes/claimed votes.

But he does have literally at least a 75% chance of flipping scum.
Name a player other than him with that high of odds, just by objective evidence.

[mastin2]

EBWOP:

*It's almost as if scum knew SirCakez was flipping scum, knew that lynch couldn't be stopped, and were trying to avoid being caught on

a counterwagon to

it.

[Titus]

@mastina, poking holes in my logic without doubting my motivations is working with me. Otherwise, we are talking past each other. I don't like being diametrically opposed in reads to you. I do think part of it is my fault though.

As for the tactican being RR or MoI, yeah I am kinda there. That's not a surprise. The random scum electing NOT to vote would normally be a red flag. So why would scum attempt the manuever collectively? It requires scum planning. If scum presumed they'd at least reveal how many scum we are looking for by collectively not voting, they wouldn't engage in the behavior as that gives information.

Look at the day 2, RR wagon. I cannot find a scum name, can you? The closest I get is Skybird. I mostly spoke against RR for utilitarian reasons. Now, those reasons are gone. I am expecting RR to be boxing in scum and devising a plan to do things. Yet, RR seems more interested in control lately. I also don't like his angles. I deliberately told RR that McMenno wasn't an option so he would feel compelled to bus Cakey.

RR kept saying me being conftown ruined the plan and made the beach event useless. This is not true. The lurkers who were not paying attention should have realized that I was an ok vote. That gives us two wagons to calculate if scum split their votes (for instance Jasper getting caught).

Farside then pitching to be conftown basedon the votes makes sense; hoping that we could not do algebra given we lynched the math genius the prior day.

Rr has been extremely passive this game.

As for MoI, I don't see where the scumreads are coming from but admit he does fit my profile, which is why I am not opposed to you using your ability there.

I am all about looking at patterns and testing theories. RR's ability was a natural fit.

[Titus]

I have the line of inevitability at RR's vote Mastina.

[Creature]

Wait, don't decide on a lynch yet.

[grapes]

Creature who's scum?

[Creature]

Let me see where I left my PoE list.

[Creature]

Actually my PoE list is anyone who hasn't voted mastin2, Titus or Not Chara.

[grapes]

Mastin can we please just lynch kraska?

[grapes]

Actually my PoE list is anyone who hasn't voted mastin2, Titus or Not Chara.

That's dumb.

Scum know who the town are and don't need to vote them unless they need to.

[Not Chara]

farside does not have that low of an opinion of the players in this game. there's no way she was honestly trying to scoot by with that 'conftown' claim, while knowing it was wrong, and expecting no one to do simple math.

pedit:
VOTE: Snarky

[mastin2]

Should be noted: We know there's a traitor. I don't think the traitor is kraskaesque or SnarkySnowman. It could feasibly be any other possible scum candidate, though the most likely are DGB or Shadow_step. (That doesn't mean they are, though! It's possible for one of DGB/Shadow_step to be town. It's possible for both of them to be groupscum. It's possible for one to be groupscum and the other a traitor. It's just that we know there's a traitor and they're the only two players who have shown any interactions which could be indicative of being a traitor. DGB far moreso than Shadow_step.)

Traitors are

usually

the least-damaging member of the scumteam.
So, while I'm okay with a DGB lynch for much the same reasons as above...one, there's a chance DGB is town (which I don't see for SnarkySnowman), and two, there's the chance DGB is the traitor (which I don't see for SnarkySnowman)...meaning, she's not my preferred lynch, because the lynch preference should be:
Groupscum > traitor > malevolent 3p > anything else. (And, at this juncture, I don't believe we have any malevolent third parties.)

[McMenno]

yeah I win if town loses and I'm alive... and if I win beachapalooza I bruteforce the cluster event that's why I selfvoted

mastin updated thoughts on xk?

VOTE: snarkysnowmen