Micro 648: Mystery Box Mafia - 't is gedaan!

[RyanK]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Expedience]

Spoiler: general timeline of House's read on NJAC

93, 96, 99, 101

Day 1, House has pretty much no read on NJAC and dismisses GuiltyLion's push. The combination of 96 and 99 gives me the vibe that House is more interested in why GuiltyLion is pushing NJAC rather than looking into NJAC himself, since House finds 92 interesting but doesn't care for the rest of GL's push.

134

House's vote on NJAC here feels more like a D1 push you make when you find what someone said or did interesting rather than scummy. It's a vote with the intention of sorting.

163

House is talking about NJAC like he town or nullreads him. It's also an interesting question to ask someone you're sheeping and might otherwise look contradictory (following them while questioning), but looks to me that he's, again, sorting a slot.

168

House is under the impression that Neapolitans get Vanilla/Not Vanilla results. Nothing to really say about this other than to acknowledge it.

186

Now House is starting to talk to NJAC like he scumreads him. I presume that this comes from the fact that he dislikes NJAC's push on Expedience, the read and tone transition at least makes sense to me with what has been happening in the thread.

191

So while House is scumreading NJAC, he's sitting out of the push because he's still sorting him.

209

House's read on NJAC has been relatively fluid and weak, which makes since given the night action result House claims he has ("vanilla" is completely not alignment indicative).

211

And now Expedience calls House out on his mistake concerning Neapolitans. After this, notice the complete lack of discussion on NJAC after this point in House's ISO. I'm assuming at this time, House is PM'ing Smeagol and asking for clarification on what happened.

308

Read this post carefully. House is literally saying that he has an inno on NJAC and is trying to derail Guilty's push on him. This coming out of the blue actually makes

sense

to me... He probably received the mod's PM around this time and now knows for sure that NJAC is town. Reminds me of what Guilty said earlier about innos, and how that change in reads can look awkward.

315

And House outs his result right here...

321

This is totally something House would do btw, reminds me of when he used me as bait in my newbie. Basically, I jumped onto a wagon that House started pushing and then House started "tunneling" onto me (his top townread that game) to see if anyone else would sheep on. The idea behind the gambit was clever, but I saw through it and that was evident because of how I defended myself. Basically House would totally vote his townreads with ulterior motives when he's town and I see the merit behind what he did this game.

356

House tells us here that his interpretation of his "Vanilla" result changed as he was posting, which makes sense with his ISO:

at 163, House is talking about NJAC like he believes he's town, so it's presumable that this is when he thought "Vanilla" meant VT. Then in 186, his language implies a scumread, matching up with his realization he mentioned in 356 and matches up with 209 chronologically. We can assume the mod correction came after 209, as House's language returns to that of a townread in 308.

Point is, you can actually follow the exact transition of House's thought process wrt to his night actions in the thread. There is NOTHING that contradicts his claim in his actions.

This feels like an extremely exploitative push from Expedience, since there's everything in the thread to back up House, yet he keeps pushing on what seems to be a genuine misunderstanding in mod-communications.

VOTE: Expedience

Consider this the stance I'm taking, Expedience. also your push on me was pretty lacking, i got you scumread me but where was the convincing people? the questioning of me? it didn't feel genuine.

Every time I try to parse this I just get confused. I can't get to the same level of undersfanding again.

[Expedience]

Guilty, you didn't seem concerned with or even acknowledged my unvote. Who do you think is scum with House?

I've mostly focused on the objective aspects of House's claim and explanations given for his behavior because I find it impossible to tell whether or not his confidence levels are genuine. The "liar" thing is something that I don't find alignment indicative because of this. He discredits people like that all the time as either alignment I think. I can understand your desire to lynch House and it looks mostly town to me.

[Expedience]

...
Also I don't like the current wagon on Flames, and am waiting for the responses from Expedience to decide if Ryank wagon is a good one.
...

If so, why aren't you asking me to clarify what you don't understand?

I'd rather wait to see how things unfold for a bit before interfering in the push on you.

Why are you relying on the situation instead of your own reads?

Because he's scum. He's not scum hunting.

VOTE: House

Should I say the same of you?
VOTE: NJAC

Remember, NJAC can't be scum unless House is also scum because House claimed a VT result on him. You should be voting House if you think NJAC is scum.

If we vote House, it's rather WIFOM if House is town. If we vote NJAC, however, it is with 100% certainty that House is scum. And yet, if NJAC is town, it's WIFOM all over again as to whether House is scum as House could have always claimed his results as it is as scum. So, we should be voting for whoever we are more certain is scum.

@House:

Would you like to share the corrected results? Judging by the result the mod gave you, he would have gave you vanilla results instead of whether NJAC is a VT.

This doesn't make sense at all, I can't even parse it. Simply put, NJAC can only be scum with House, House can be scum with anyone, so we vote House before NJAC in all cases. Information isn't relevant, just choose the safest option.

House said that it was revised to specifically VT, the history of neapolitans thing also supports this.

[NJAC]

I'm back. Reading...

[NJAC]

@GuiltyLion: You ignored some questions I made to you. Please answer:

What about Flames' response to House was good? And again, you're saying your vote was "fine" but that's not an argument that it would help game-solve.

Better question:

what about Flames' response was scummy in your eyes?

I saw a natural response to explain an RVS vote, and to deal with House's pressure.

I'm finding House's D2 play to be vaguely scummy, and NJAC scummier still

VOTE: NJAC

Please elaborate.

[NJAC]

@gigabyte: you didn't answer this:

For the sake of trying a different angle and given that you town read the whole wagon, from those who didn't vote Flames who do you think are scum and why?

[NJAC]

I'm not liking Guilty's 415, 417, 419 y 422. After the issue with House's claim is now clear, he continues to push House with BS, especially what he said about the interaction with Expedience in 415 and 422.

[Sméagol]

V

o

t

e

c

o

u

n

t

Day 2 #06

House [

1

]:

GuiltyLion

RyanK [

1

]:

Not_Mafia

Expedience [

1

]:

gigabyteTroubadour

Not_Mafia [

1

]:

RyanK

GuiltyLion [

1

]:

House

Abstaining [2]:

NJAC

/

Expedience

There are 7 active players.
Absolute majority is

4

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Previous vote count
Next vote count

Spoiler: Current playerlist

[1]

NJAC

[2]

House

[3] Maruchan † -

town

- vanilla - killed night 1

[4]

gigabyteTroubadour

[5] Flames682 † -

town

- hashtag doctor - lynched day 1

[6]

RyanK

[7]

Expedience

[8]

Not_Mafia

[9]

GuiltyLion

Spoiler: Days & nights

Day 1

Night 1

Day 2

Deadline is

22-10-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-10-22 00:00:00)).

[NJAC]

I ISOed Guilty and I'm definitely not a fan of his posts.

His early push on me D1 seems forced. He tried to set up a mislynch on me during twilight. He never adressed my defense on his accusations. He doesn't seem interested in determining my alignment but in throwing shade on me.

He has tried to manipulate my vote:

I will give you some towncred if you are willing to wagon and lynch scum!RyanK with me.

I'm having second thoughts on scum!NJAC at the moment, and I would quite like for him to powerlynch House with us today. If he avoids the House wagon after his distancing vote then I'd say NJAC-House team would be my pick

I have a town read on Ryank and House is null.

@Guilty, same question I asked to Expedience: am I scum for not having the same reads you have?

Pushes on Ryank and House seem also mislynch attempts.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[NJAC]

01100010 01101111 01101111

What's this?

Also, what's your read on GuiltyLion?

[NJAC]

...

NJAC why are you voting someone who hasn't posted yet

Partly RVS, partly Meta. Do you think I should vote someone different?

...

What meta is relevant here? Why are you continuing RVS on page 2 when there are already posts and wagons to be participating in or commenting on?

The meta is about how hard it is to read N_M in my experience. I commented on a few posts in the very same post I voted, so it's not like I just RVSed.
...

How is your voting supposed to help you to read N_M?

I saw an attempt to PL N_M in a past game, seeing who supported that lynch and who didn't helped me to figure out N_M's alignment.

[GuiltyLion]

Guilty, you didn't seem concerned with or even acknowledged my unvote. Who do you think is scum with House?

I've mostly focused on the objective aspects of House's claim and explanations given for his behavior because I find it impossible to tell whether or not his confidence levels are genuine. The "liar" thing is something that I don't find alignment indicative because of this. He discredits people like that all the time as either alignment I think. I can understand your desire to lynch House and it looks mostly town to me.

I think it's either NJAC or Gigabyte, I'm currently leaning gigabyte and would lynch him today because I do find his hard-defense of House to be pretty suspect and forced. I feel in his defense of House he is set against the conclusion of my (and your) arguments about scum!House first, and then justifying his conclusion after it's made.

Can you show me a game where town!House engaged in petty slapfights, misrepped repeatedly, and accused his townreads of being liars when they pushed him? Because I'm sitting here as town seeing his push on me look incredibly aggressive/disingenuous, and it's getting to where I don't see how I can imagine him as anything but scum. If this is truly his townplay then he's going to cause us to lose, because he is doing nothing to show me a town alignment behind his posts, is currently tunneled on town, and seems incapable of letting me post and talk to others without trying to provoke me.

[GuiltyLion]

I ISOed Guilty and I'm definitely not a fan of his posts.

His early push on me D1 seems forced. He tried to set up a mislynch on me during twilight. He never adressed my defense on his accusations. He doesn't seem interested in determining my alignment but in throwing shade on me.

I dropped my push on you and looked elsewhere today - how was my twilight action trying to set up a mislynch if I stopped following through on it? I was giving reads and trying to create content because we had such a quick lynch, and actually managed to sort Maruchan correctly out of it.

He has tried to manipulate my vote:

I will give you some towncred if you are willing to wagon and lynch scum!RyanK with me.

I'm having second thoughts on scum!NJAC at the moment, and I would quite like for him to powerlynch House with us today. If he avoids the House wagon after his distancing vote then I'd say NJAC-House team would be my pick

To respond to your earlier point, here what you call vote-manipulating is me trying to sort your alignment. I liked it when you voted House and I hated it when you unvoted. What do you think about my case/points about House? I'd like you to address those.

@Guilty, same question I asked to Expedience: am I scum for not having the same reads you have?

You could be! Because I'm town, so you're currently pushing a mislynch, and you're also ignoring a case I feel is on pretty obvious scum. If you have a nullread on House, why aren't you talking to him?

Pushes on Ryank and House seem also mislynch attempts.

My push on RyanK was a reaction test to follow up from my night action. I feel RyanK has since been town and I dropped it pretty immediately. Calling that a "mislynch attempt" is weak.

Are you saying you think House is a mislynch just because I'm pushing him? Because that's atrocious reasoning built entirely on an incorrect assumption (scum!GL), and it's especially weak here since you apparently aren't even townreading House yourself.

[GuiltyLion]

@GuiltyLion: You ignored some questions I made to you. Please answer:

What about Flames' response to House was good? And again, you're saying your vote was "fine" but that's not an argument that it would help game-solve.

Better question:

what about Flames' response was scummy in your eyes?

I saw a natural response to explain an RVS vote, and to deal with House's pressure.

This is a stupid question and I'm not sure why you're insisting on following up on it, but at the time I felt Flames was overexplaining his vote by saying he turned off auto-correct and engaging in an argument about why he could have copy/pasted. It just didn't seem like something town should (or would) concern themselves with. 23 is also a WIFOMy post about getting lynched and I always see scum!motivation in that.

I'm finding House's D2 play to be vaguely scummy, and NJAC scummier still

VOTE: NJAC

Please elaborate.

What do you want me to elaborate? I still find your posting obnoxiously leading, and your reads bad. You ignore commenting on things I think should be central topics of discussion, and you push on stuff that I find rather useless in determining alignment. Not hard scumtells, but definitely not towntells either.

[GuiltyLion]

Guilty, you didn't seem concerned with or even acknowledged my unvote. Who do you think is scum with House?

I've mostly focused on the objective aspects of House's claim and explanations given for his behavior because I find it impossible to tell whether or not his confidence levels are genuine. The "liar" thing is something that I don't find alignment indicative because of this. He discredits people like that all the time as either alignment I think. I can understand your desire to lynch House and it looks mostly town to me.

One other point with respect to this - if House is town, then who's scum? It's not me, we would both agree it's not you, I strongly doubt RyanK with how he responded to my initial vote/push today, which leaves {GB, NJAC, N_M}. I believe if scumteam was 2 of those 3 then at least one of them would be capitalizing on an easy House mislynch, but instead I feel like I have to put in tons of effort to get this obvscum lynched. All three of them are ignoring the case/wagon on House (again - ignoring the neapolitan claim completely, he's still scummy as fuck -

everyone reread 318 and see the misreps

), so I'd say if House is somehow town then you have both scum WKing him (or in the case of N_M, ignoring altogether), and I just think that's rather unlikely as a Day2 gamestate.

[GuiltyLion]

House isn't claiming at L-1 with intent, either.

If you people want to derp lynch me, you can learn about my role from the mod because I'm dead anyway so I refuse to reward town after being so stupid.

and again, if House is really a town neapolitan, he made this post without ever having crumbed his result on NJAC. He's implying he is important, yet simultaneously refusing to give useful information to town.

that's not how town plays

[NJAC]

This is a stupid question and I'm not sure why you're insisting on following up on it, but at the time I felt Flames was overexplaining his vote by saying he turned off auto-correct and engaging in an argument about why he could have copy/pasted. It just didn't seem like something town should (or would) concern themselves with. 23 is also a WIFOMy post about getting lynched and I always see scum!motivation in that.

It's not a stupid question. You helped to mislynch the guy. I'm assuming there was at least one scum on that wagon.

I have more questions, btw:

1) Who are your town reads and why?

2) You criticized my vote on N_M. How are you planning to determine his alignment?

[NJAC]

Why is Expedience a strong town read?

[NJAC]

I admit you have some valid points against House, but I also think it could be a problem with his play style.

[GuiltyLion]

This is a stupid question and I'm not sure why you're insisting on following up on it, but at the time I felt Flames was overexplaining his vote by saying he turned off auto-correct and engaging in an argument about why he could have copy/pasted. It just didn't seem like something town should (or would) concern themselves with. 23 is also a WIFOMy post about getting lynched and I always see scum!motivation in that.

It's not a stupid question. You helped to mislynch the guy. I'm assuming there was at least one scum on that wagon.

I have more questions, btw:

1) Who are your town reads and why?

2) You criticized my vote on N_M. How are you planning to determine his alignment?

Sorry yes, I agree if you are town it's not stupid per se, I just think it's silly because Flames already flipped town and so any explanation I give for scumreading him is going to be biased by that fact, and unfortunately the day happened so quickly that I didn't express my reasons prior to the lynch. When I respond, you're working with stale/manipulatable info regardless of my alignment - like, I'm town in this instance, but if I were scum it'd be easy to make up some crap as a response as to why I was scumreading Flames after-the-fact.

1) Expedience - has been posting genuine, useful posts all game, I have followed everything he's said 100% and I don't smell scum!motivation whatsoever. As an example, posts like 294 very rarely come from scum, Expedience is clarifying a miscommunication between two players and not using it to twist words or make easy votes.

RyanK - I think if he were scum he would have discredited my claim about investigating him with the action failing. The way he explained that he had traded and received an ascetic role both a) made sense and b) felt genuine, he didn't try to argue with me whatsoever. Also, he's dumbtelling/making-odd-votes in a way that strikes me as townie, he's not being self-conscious about his reasons/posts when he pushes on people.

NJAC - Tbh I feel your last few posts have been rather town, and I do feel you are making an effort to interact with and sort all of the players in the game. Also when I reread your conversation with House in 238 to 242, I don't see that as a Scum-Scum interaction.

2) I can't make N_M respond to pressure/questions, so the way I plan on sorting him is just seeing if his reads make sense and whether he votes any easy mislynches. I haven't actually ever played with scum!N_M, but I do find in my past games with him as town that he will leave a trail of discernible reads + pushes given enough time, and he is absolutely capable at finding scum. I am unimpressed with his work in this game so far.

[RyanK]

@Mod:

Please prod Not_Mafia, it's been 2 days and 9 hours.

[RyanK]

@Not_Mafia:

Why are you hardly posting in this game? I expect you to answer my question when you come back.

[RyanK]

EBWOPl Why are you hardly posting in this game? I expect you to also answer this question when you come back.

[RyanK]

@GuiltyLion,

I'm waiting for your reply to this.