Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over

[JaeReed]

o hey i finally caught up.

trans is town, cool. sheeping him for the rest of the game.

VOTE: LUV

@smith impo is just awkward regardless of alignment.

[JaeReed]

I don't get what you mean by are you that bad... I was telling smith why you being self conscious was a null tell for you. that's it.

There's no flavour in normals. smith just refers to mafia as wolves. some people do that.

[JaeReed]

ok done shitposting i'll catch up and try in vain to contribute useful things now

no need to be useful

transcend will carry us

[JaeReed]

can we just spam to the next page for another dog pic? lol

[JaeReed]

can we just spam to the next page for another dog pic? lol

which one do you like more: cats or dogs?

I am gay so cats, but dogs are good too so I'm pretty easy.

[JaeReed]

can we just spam to the next page for another dog pic? lol

which one do you like more: cats or dogs?

I am gay so cats, but dogs are good too so I'm pretty easy.

Shoot: JaeReed

incorrect answer, buck-o.

it's ok i experience prejudice all the time for my sweet love of the -- i'll stop before i get a warning or someth lol

[JaeReed]

bye bye bye hope you enjoyed your time in mini normal 1844.

lol that was a nice work in

[JaeReed]

also I just realized RB was actually saying the people ON the wagon were scum... right? If so that works out more perfectly than your average bodybuilder.

how are you functioning well enough for these kinds of comments at like 12:40?

[JaeReed]

wait 1:40 isn't it?

[JaeReed]

hah okay

ok so i thought dayvig was non normal so wouldn't be here but i just checked and i might be wrong so gonna throw this out there

if it's a real vig then DO NOT lynch transcend w/ my flip. any push on him will be a scumclaim, ta.

[JaeReed]

Predit: the latter but I'm not sleepy mom

I was trying to keep the adoption under wraps but i guess it's out now. time to embarrass you in every game from here on

[JaeReed]

hah okay

ok so i thought dayvig was non normal so wouldn't be here but i just checked and i might be wrong so gonna throw this out there

if it's a real vig then DO NOT lynch transcend w/ my flip. any push on him will be a scumclaim, ta.

are you kidding me

When is that ever a real thing

When

Why would you think that would be real

it's not listed on explicitly not normal so i'm covering bases just in case, my child.

[JaeReed]

did it tell you much?

[JaeReed]

it told me that you're probably town and it tells me that you take everything literally so i shouldn't troll too much more lol

mmm maybe. i figured you already knew i was town from my first post tbh lol

[JaeReed]

eeeeeeeeee <3 PUPPIES

[JaeReed]

i think cloud is potentially town but yeah that haiku fail hurt my soul

@transcend i had good reads that game by p2 then proceeded to be a failure and led town to defeat. best maf player 2k16. the names actually link to the comments in question

[JaeReed]

Hey Hermie and rb!

VOTE: gerryoat

You better not be Team Moon!

what's team moon is that what the mafia team is called? i genuinely don't see where this is listed if it is.

JUST GOT TO MY FIRST POST AND FIGURED OUT THIS IS PROBABLY A F*CKING POKEMON REFERENCE

YA THINK LOL

[JaeReed]

@whoever wanted me to explain my cloud read

Nah don't feel like it.

@whoever wanted scumhunting techniques

This game my primary technique is sheep transcend. Usually tone and gut.

Oh real quick tho can I get the puppies back?

VOTE: transcend

[JaeReed]

@whoever wanted me to explain my cloud read

Nah don't feel like it.

@whoever wanted scumhunting techniques

This game my primary technique is sheep transcend. Usually tone and gut.

Oh real quick tho can I get the puppies back?

VOTE: transcend

Jae you realizxe that you are extremely opposite to the only meta i have on you, so please, try to convince me or i might comptlelt ydestroy ur as with my town sass

Careful. I suggest you don't do this.

To answer your concern tho, effort is not necessarily alignment indicative.

[JaeReed]

no i've become a spoiled brat now and expect puppies every page. this is what happens when u don't discipline your subjects

[JaeReed]

:c ok i guess i will do some of my own to keep me going then

[JaeReed]

lel i almost completely forgot to revote

VOTE: luv

[JaeReed]

Jae's a gut scum read by their posts so far.

I am disappoint in you

[JaeReed]

^ but not as disappoint in myself for not realizing that the first post would be 475 tbh or i woulda reversed those posts

[JaeReed]

^ but not as disappoint as i am in myself for not realizing that the first post would be 475 tbh or i woulda reversed those posts

Fixed wording issue

[JaeReed]

@Jaereed Why are you sheeping transcend again? Are you scum or just being a townbeard?

because he's town

2nd round of questioning is pointless

[JaeReed]

2) I wanted to flip mafia this game, and I'm fucking town

this seems legit to me

town

[JaeReed]

@ impoe

Im pretty sure you are pr

I'm pretty sure I do literally everything I've done so far no matter my role so regardless of what I am this game you calling me obvious is silly.

hey impo remember that convo we had like not even 2 days ago now i think where you were talking about being pr read? lmao

gotta love when it gets proven ahahaha

[JaeReed]

@ impoe

Im pretty sure you are pr

I'm pretty sure I do literally everything I've done so far no matter my role so regardless of what I am this game you calling me obvious is silly.

hey impo remember that convo we had like not even 2 days ago now i think where you were talking about being pr read? lmao

gotta love when it gets proven ahahaha

you mean when I said that people's PR/non-PR reads on me were like completely irrelevant to my actual role half the time? Why would you assume it was proven? Are you implying

you

know my role?

yup my n0 report on you was mafia goon but dw i wont tell anyone until lylo <3 FAMILY SOLIDARITY

[JaeReed]

2) I wanted to flip mafia this game, and I'm fucking town

this seems legit to me

town

It does? That seems like a pretty null thing to say to me. Why do you think it's non-fakeable?

just cuz knowing gerry that's probs legit yo

[JaeReed]

Actually he's likely town from a logical perspective given my perception of Gerryoat's approach to the game but I'm not sure and I think it's too soon to be sure but w/e

eyyyy you CAN read

[JaeReed]

[JaeReed]

that pretty much seems perf to me, transcend. I mean I am not as hot on Io as you are but I'm trusting that you wouldn't dun goof up that hard with your hardest tr. Wasn't super hot on smith but he dropped from your tr's so atm they're almost in line with mine.

Was on the fence about impo until her post about her needing to change her scum meta.
rb and hermie are my stronger sr's, lesser in smith & ccc. burger is possibly town but needs a vig shot to the head (soz mate)
luv hasn't done anything to make me think your read on him could be wrong so I'm cool with lynching there.

[JaeReed]

Now that I think about it more, some of your posts are almost too towny in the "seem to be focusing on how they're perceived" sense so I'm not totally set on your alignment but nonetheless I fail if you're scum because I don't SR you this game, at least as of yet, but I did in past games where we were both town lol

stop fos'ing my strongest townread in scummy ways lol

[JaeReed]

hm ok. I don't have much meta on Io so as I said just trusting your read there. My only scum!Io meta was I think her first newbie on site and she was more focused on appearing true newb i think. I think she was town in donner party but i was vig there and tunneled on town all d1 before i got nk'ed so i couldn't really tell you about it lol.

Hermie might be bad but his first two posts were pure filler, not even the good tonereading kind. third was asking about the mason thing which makes me uneasy. then if you compare 366 to 376, and 389 the whole "rb is fillery but maybe just plays that way but i'm voting transcend for fillering" is absolutely awful in a way i feel is actually AI. I won't even drag out 379 as evidence because that could just be a misunderstanding based on wording but it's factored in to that read and how i felt he didn't genuinely sr you.

[JaeReed]

Cloud, you're both town.

[JaeReed]

Are you sure? You're missing quite a few dog pics.

[JaeReed]

Actually he's likely town from a logical perspective given my perception of Gerryoat's approach to the game but I'm not sure and I think it's too soon to be sure but w/e

run me through this logical perspective

"Logical" was a bit of an overstatement, but that's kind of the usual when you hear that word coming from me, because what is logic, really? Anyway um yeah it's a weak read but I just think gerry would be more likely to try to participate if he were scum after being away for a while as opposed to just getting mad at the people voting him, because in my experience he has a similar opinion as I do about AtE (as in, will AtE sometimes but probably won't do it in such an unsubtle way when it's so completely unnecessary and out of the blue at least as scum? I think?) and is just an active player as both alignments and... hmm, this is hard to explain.

I said "logical" as opposed to my initial gut reaction which was leanscum if anything. The more I think it through the more I realize I'm probably wrong about it being scummy or null but I'm stubborn and I have to sit here glaring at my hands and willing them to tap the keys admitting that I might be wrong as I agonize over being shown up by frickin' JaeReed with their frickin' jae reads

you're saying like everything I'm thinking. Now that I think about it more, some of your posts are almost too towny in the "seem to be focusing on how they're perceived" sense so I'm not totally set on your alignment but nonetheless I fail if you're scum because I don't SR you this game, at least as of yet, but I did in past games where we were both town lol

predit: those are mostly my null/scumreads except cloud but idk how well cloud can towntell as scum so I might not be giving him enough credit.

Now that I think about it more, some of your posts are almost too towny in the "seem to be focusing on how they're perceived" sense so I'm not totally set on your alignment but nonetheless I fail if you're scum because I don't SR you this game, at least as of yet, but I did in past games where we were both town lol

stop fos'ing my strongest townread in scummy ways lol

that wasn't an fos, that was my acknowledging that my tr could be wrong. Fricker.

@Cloud she townreads transcend but is paranoid of reading him wrong is my take on these. The "saying everything I'm thinking" was after Transcend posted his thoughts on the game and quite frankly they were pre much lining up with mine as well so impo posting that before i said that is also town points to her.

She was sring gerry's entrance but then realized she was probs wrong on it and wanted hermie over luv but i guess herm's latest posts convinced her she could be wrong there too.

[JaeReed]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

[JaeReed]

Also oops, looks like jaereed literally just said the same thing i did in almost the exact same words lol

<3 it's ok my child I have you covered

[JaeReed]

3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

I think of dumbtells/derp clears as mistakes that only town can make, not just...mistakes that potentially indicate carelessness.

gonna elaborate for my own viewpoint on this here

Reading the setup I think is something that is a personality tell. As is actually remembering the contents.
Example:
I always read the setup. Sometimes I don't remember the contents. If someone mentions day chat I go and look at the setup to clarify it's written there before jumping to conclusions.
Impo I'd bet never reads the setup. If someone mentions day chat she's likely to just assume it's written in the setup rather than bother to go check I'd imagine.

This is regardless of alignment. It's a personality thing.

[JaeReed]

saying I didn't think of this wasn't a scumclaim it was me genuinely not knowing that daychat w/o encryptor = 100% always announced in the OP

Only in normals is that a rule I think

[JaeReed]

1) Also, depending on the scum team and the level of their planning, it would possibly come up in conversation, at least in terms of "be aware that people know this is going on and may keep an eye out for coaching and coordination and the like". So if one noticed and the other two derped, it's still reasonably likely that the one who noticed would have communicated it to the others.

I disagree. I wouldn't have thought to tell my partners about daychat being public because I'd just they'd know.

[JaeReed]

*just assume

sighhh i suck at making posts that make sense lately.

[JaeReed]

Oh I forgot Io, probably null for me but have to reread her.

VOTE: Lil

There is literally no way you can legitimately scum read Trans and not scum read me after how friendly he and I have been today.

Do not ever lynch this player.

will do, random dude

[JaeReed]

hey hey hey how did you know

As your parent it is my job to know <3

[JaeReed]

when uzi is hammered

i'll probably also accept when rb is hammered, dislike him more than uzi atm cuz that wk is gross enough to make me question whether uzi is best lynch yaknow?

[JaeReed]

trans/io/cloud/herm/impo/gerry town
vw probtown

burger is nullish
smith i'm concerned about

uzi is weak scumlean
rb is scumread
ccc is scumread

i haven't really thought about interactions much further than that but trans said ccc/uzi not a team and i'll trust in that read and rb is wk'ing in a bad way. not too fond of smith's stuff there either wrt to everything but that'll be someth that comes out in the wash i think.

anyways thems my reads, already putting in more effort than i felt like to start w/ tbh

i won't cry tears of blood if uzi is lynched but preference on rb

[JaeReed]

no i don't think you'd defend uzi like this if you were both scum.. have you not been paying attention? i think uzi is t o w n if you're scum.

[JaeReed]

i mean i could but at this stage it'd just be a vanity wagon. I don't feel like pullin' my own wagon, it's more fun to ride 'em

[JaeReed]

@transcend either he wk'ed his partner when it was suboptimal to do so or he's probably just town. it doesn't 100% clear him but enough that i'd probably be looking more at smith over him because smith's interaction about it feels more subtly scummy than outright.

[JaeReed]

i don't think jae's scum but his play this game is peculiar compared to a few games i skimmed with him being town.

again, i don't really use meta that much.

i mean probably meta'ing me this game is useless. the moment i got a hard tr on you i decided i felt like coasting to see what the appeal was. gotta say it's actually a pre good feeling.

i was scum on the fallout shelter in a marathon. not quite the same but copper did dive it and said i tended to seek approval way more and uhh idunno what else.

I know as scum on em I am 1000x more likely to lurk out the day and AtE less... uh idunno what else ask impo she'd probably have a better idea.

[JaeReed]

fuck its so weird that someone with a rep for defending their townreads is on my case for defending a townread

r u human Jae?

no u caught me i am merely a figment of everyone's imagination

and yeh it's more that i don't think you have a reason to defend here? I don't think uzi has given u anything to actually defend, which means it feels more like a scum wk than a town defense.

[JaeReed]

Well i cbf with that fight because i do think the uzi train is more stupid than scummy necessarily

VOTE: gerry

only contribution so far as a 'tell' i consider NAI, big chance of hitting lurkerscum here

what is that vote?

probably a scumclaim

[JaeReed]

Guys I was serious about facepalm emoji. everyone who uses it is always maf

ehhhnn i need more than that tbh at this stage since dunnstral has used the facepalm as town before

and then i tunneled him for it because he also did it as scum once

. wrt rb i am like this rn

[JaeReed]

Also Transcend the thing you TR jae for is very similar to what denial TR'd me for when I was mafia with you recently. Like, almost the exact same situation w/ pretending to think someone is killing them over a joke.

Sorry for all the tripleposting and coasting. I'll try and change my approach after this.

Your point? Do you honestly think I was pretending? Keep in mind that you are under oath, miss impo

[JaeReed]

Impo might have drawn scum. :/

You literally pointed out at the time that I don't dumbtell. You know my town meta and play. You have seen my scum play and discussed the blatant holes in it compared to my town play with me. I believe even with me being as lazy as I am you'd know based off activity and tone alone.

[JaeReed]

Lol wolves

This looks so much like scum realizing they made a bad shot but you get botd atm.

Do you think ccc is town or is he a null for you?

[JaeReed]

VOTE: rb

[JaeReed]

Lol wolves

This looks so much like scum realizing they made a bad shot but you get botd atm.

Do you think ccc is town or is he a null for you?

CCC pretty solid town to me. In a field that was blah and shit-posting, I liked his pushes (even if I disagreed with them).

PS You should investigate my meta some time. My shots are CONSISTENTLY good as wolf, because I put thought and care into them. If you think the shot was terrible, either I'm FPS'ing (fancy play syndrome) by intentionally taking a bad shot to confuse people, or you're wrong and it's a good shot after all, or I'm just a villager.

I mean the shot itself might be good from a PR hunting standpoint but the result wasn't something you wanted to see, which would elicit that kinda reaction.

[JaeReed]

I mean the shot itself might be good from a PR hunting standpoint but the result wasn't something you wanted to see, which would elicit that kinda reaction.

Give me the theory about how my reaction was fake-looking. You're doubling down on it being BS instead of a villagery lol at it, so flesh it out.

I'm not doubling down on anything, I'm giving a theory. I even explicitly said you get botd today, and I'm voting rb instead of you.

The theory is that scum are more likely to comment on (or be the first to bring up) a bad nightkill. Or anyone who made the kill, really. I did the same thing as a vig in a previous normal game, where I called out a vig shot for being awful because I was inwardly kicking myself for it. Bellaphant did something similar in my first newbie where she said the nightkill was bad and she was scum.

[JaeReed]

(and he was third party that hard town sided because the scum team in that game got absolutely obliterated.)

I would have hard townsided regardless. I like being town. I fooled myself into believing I was a town mason.

http://pnewman.net/shelter/viewtopic.ph ... ee&start=0

sick of having to provide this nearly every game but w/e. I rolled scum in a bastard marathon. That's the only time.

[JaeReed]

Vig's feel guild. Scum don't.

Scum feel shitty about their bad kills. You're not reading. I have evidence from a vig and from scum both.

[JaeReed]

ding ding ding!

I was obvscum and just couldn't get lynched due to my role & other bastard mechanics so i won the game with them trying to lynch and vengekill me the whole time.

[JaeReed]

@transcend go down the bottom of this and change to ascending from descending. That'll be my iso in order.

http://pnewman.net/shelter/search.php?t ... or=jaereed

[JaeReed]

I mean the shot itself might be good from a PR hunting standpoint but the result wasn't something you wanted to see, which would elicit that kinda reaction.

this looks bad given what you've told me about your feelings in mafia games recently so I need to quote it so I remember and check the things that made me think you were town again.

Elaborate? I can't see this lining up with anything to do with my feelings when I'm mafia.

Jae's reaction to your reaction to the death alone is making me think he did it. That and Impoetic was super jumpy with is votes yesterday and I just wasn't feeling like Jae and Impoetic's interactions were very genuine.
Frankly I see no reason to not just ax the both of them this second.

Well, the reason is so we don't get two MLs and because we're barely two pages into day 2.

I'm

always

jumpy with my votes and there are three people who can vouch for that in this game, as it happens.

Please try to be more specific on how/when our interactions weren't genuine?

I would have loved to have been maf with you ngl... Our interactions would be super obvs though because I suck <3

[JaeReed]

fuck impo is so kawaii i don't think i can lynch this slot

ahahaha that's why I asked to adopt her after I played with her once :3

[JaeReed]

I mean the shot itself might be good from a PR hunting standpoint but the result wasn't something you wanted to see, which would elicit that kinda reaction.

this looks bad given what you've told me about your feelings in mafia games recently so I need to quote it so I remember and check the things that made me think you were town again.

Elaborate? I can't see this lining up with anything to do with my feelings when I'm mafia.

just the fact that you let your little honesty fetish leak into your scumplay and the way you sorta justified the shot which indicates you would have made that shot in the first place as mafia. But I wouldn't normally scumread the line at all -- hence the "given what they've told me" part -- so it's probably fine. Also I remember now you were complaining about me considering you might dumbtell... so

just forget it.

(I'm bad with words.)

Jae's reaction to your reaction to the death alone is making me think he did it. That and Impoetic was super jumpy with is votes yesterday and I just wasn't feeling like Jae and Impoetic's interactions were very genuine.
Frankly I see no reason to not just ax the both of them this second.

Well, the reason is so we don't get two MLs and because we're barely two pages into day 2.

I'm

always

jumpy with my votes and there are three people who can vouch for that in this game, as it happens.

Please try to be more specific on how/when our interactions weren't genuine?

I would have loved to have been maf with you ngl... Our interactions would be super obvs though because I suck <3

are you implying I am mafia

without

you?

You are NOT getting out of the associative tells I so painstakingly forced that easy. Look, even now I'm trolling in a way that could be taken as some puerile distancing attempt on my part.

hehehe <3 I don't think you're maf, but I would have liked to have been maf with you regardless of whatever we are. It would probably frustrate you though.

As for the first part, I wouldn't have shot gerry. If Transcend is town I would have shot him, if not I probably would have gone for Io or smith. gerry wasn't doing anything and seemed to be content with not doing anything. I wasn't PR reading him either, so there's that.

honesty fetish... rip lol

[JaeReed]

fuck impo is so kawaii i don't think i can lynch this slot

ahahaha that's why I asked to adopt her after I played with her once :3

but is impo town?

impo plz don't be scum

Sometimes I get glimpses of "oh she's scum" but for the most part she's not on my radar.

uh 824 feels so much like me in games and I want to tr it but I know it's so freaking easy to make that particular post and it's null tonally but it's like the same reaction i have so aaaaaaaa q.q

[JaeReed]

I CAN LIE IF I WANT

I claimed 1 shot vig when it was our 1 shot factional kill! That's a lie....right? RIGHT?!?! IT COUNTS

[JaeReed]

As for the first part, I wouldn't have shot gerry. If Transcend is town I would have shot him, if not I probably would have gone for Io or smith. gerry wasn't doing anything and seemed to be content with not doing anything. I wasn't PR reading him either, so there's that.

Talk about this. Why would your list have been trans/IO/me? And why not pr read his inadvertent hammer? "Pr or scum" isn't a bad way to read someone who carelessly votes without paying attention to the vote counts.

gerry obvtowned in a way that made me believe he was vt. there's not much more I can say about that one. I don't read into derphammers that much because literally anyone can do it. he didn't seem overly invested in the game so the mistake was made. that's about it.

trans is a scary mofo as town. I'd fearkill him every time (sorry transcend). I might reconsider if he got frustrated with being fearkilled but I haven't seen anything of the sort so far so I'd just go for it.
If trans were scum with me I'd go for Io because it puts him in a better standing. Io scumreads me and I don't consider her a weak player, and Transcend pocketed her in that situation (trans maf/io town) so no one would think he'd let that kill go through because it's literally killing off your townbeard and that's not ideal. Plus with my interactions with transcend it'd pre much clear him after my flip. I suppose I would only go that way as a goon though because it's relying on me being lynched after to put my buddy in a good position.
If trans/io were both scum or i was a pr with trans scum i'd go for you because you're the next scary dude if town.

so there's an argument for me being maf but both yourself and trans would have to be maf with me and I would have to be a pr to make the kill on gerry.

That said.. that's all assuming I had any say over the nightkill, so it could easily be that I was overruled, I guess. I'd hope that no one would overrule me on a transcend or smith kill tho. I can see an argument for overriding on Io kill I guess?

[JaeReed]

2) I wanted to flip mafia this game, and I'm fucking town

This.

Plus the not reading up since ppl townread him. Just don't feel the way he operates as mafia. This felt like super low effort town, the kind without even an interesting role. Heard it said that he doesn't like town, so his attitude this game is in line with that.

https://epicmafia.com/topic/80150

I mean I can't put it too clearly without giving meta so this is what I'm comparing to. I mean recently I also have seen him as town, but he wanted to get killed there because he was a treestump so the play is different.

[JaeReed]

Ftr. Anyone who uses facepalm emoji unironically is mafia 9/10 times.

looks like i caught a whopper

VOTE: BurgerKing

Guys I was serious about facepalm emoji. everyone who uses it is always maf

Also their posts are bad

I can't find 1 post from BurgerKing that actually has them scumhunting.

btw Impoetic is also mafia lol

Also just looking through his iso again I'm thinking there's 2 reasons he could have been nightkilled aside from PR hunting. Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.

[JaeReed]

Vote: Transcend*

To vote you should use the vote tags.

Code: Select all

[vote]Name of person[/vote]

Like that ^

Now that's outta the way, why do you think Transcend is scum?

[JaeReed]

Jae seems very certain that Impoetic is Town, and I'm wondering why.

This is interesting because I said in 826 that I get glimpses of "oh she's scum" but she's not on my immediate radar. He followed one post where I handwaved her because I'm not looking too deeply at her right now and ignored my response to rb specifically asking about my read on her.

UNVOTE:

I'm starting to omgus tho so... need a sec to sort properly i guess.

[JaeReed]

Either Jae or Impoetic is being lynched today.
I did not like any of their votes yesterday, and after going back over and looking through the day Jae and Impoetic's interactions felt very scripted.

And then Jae makes that first post of the day accusing Smith who is not even really close to the top of my scum list.

VOTE: Jae

Yeah, no kidding. Like Jae is basically digging a hole right now.

Either Jae or Impoetic is being lynched today.
I did not like any of their votes yesterday, and after going back over and looking through the day Jae and Impoetic's interactions felt very scripted.

And then Jae makes that first post of the day accusing Smith who is not even really close to the top of my scum list.

VOTE: Jae

I could maybe see it as Impo getting spooked over gerry pushing. Anyone familiar with scum meta of Impo/JR, including what kinds of NK's JR and/or Impo tend to make?

Jae's reaction to your reaction to the death alone is making me think he did it. That and Impoetic was super jumpy with is votes yesterday and I just wasn't feeling like Jae and Impoetic's interactions were very genuine.
Frankly I see no reason to not just ax the both of them this second.

Io talk to me about this, since it's complete shit from my pov. What did you not find genuine about the joking about between myself and Impo yesterday?

I explained my theory behind what I said, and also explained why gerry would have been a suboptimal kill from my pov. If you're not planning to move your vote, I'd like some kind of explanation so I can gauge alignment, because the tone of these posts really rub me the wrong way.

I can't tell rn if you're scum pushing me or just town being silly. Help me out here because my trust in Transcend's trust in you is dwindling the more you tunnel me.

[JaeReed]

Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.

I'd guess that CCC's post was in reaction to this. It's a blanket statement that she's town. So, why did you broadcast what read as relative certainty that she's town, if in fact you're harboring meaningful doubts?

It was made 2 hours after a post where rb specifically asked me if she was town and I responded that she's not on my radar but has lots of could be scum moments. With Impo making one post in between which really wasn't AI.

Mostly, that's "Impo is more town than burger is to me right now" and was an off-handed comment. You're seriously gonna push on semantics? It won't end well for either of us, I can guarantee you that, because I will just hard scumread you and actually push for the lynch. If you're town you REALLY don't want that, buddo.

[JaeReed]

I can potentially buy that it's an off-handed comment that was communicated badly (especially in the context of 826 not long before), but nevertheless, what you expressed was more certainty than that. Why do you think it's odd for you to be questioned on it?

I think it's more odd that I wasn't questioned. He wasn't questioning at all or trying to understand whether my reads were genuine or not, he was casing and addressing the other players. It rubs me the wrong way.

[JaeReed]

I can potentially buy that it's an off-handed comment that was communicated badly (especially in the context of 826 not long before), but nevertheless, what you expressed was more certainty than that. Why do you think it's odd for you to be questioned on it?

Vote: Transcend*

To vote you should use the vote tags.

Code: Select all

[vote]Name of person[/vote]

Like that ^

Now that's outta the way, why do you think Transcend is scum?

I think he's mafia because he pushed very hard on town getting lynched he also seems scummy by how he has made his fos at least that's what I think

What do you mean by "scummy by how he has made his fos"? Can you give me a post that demonstrates what you mean?

Do you think only mafia push hard on town? Do you believe Lil Uzi had done much to look town yesterday?

[JaeReed]

You went the whole day joking around with Impo, and at somewhere near the end of the day post 533 you said you were on the fence about them with shortly after saying that you lean town in 572. You even had them down as town in your reads list, but then the very last post of day 1 (773) you said they might be scum. You had absolutely no build up to this change of reads on them, it just happened. That is so scummy that even if Impo wasn't scum that I would still want to rip your head off for that read. It just screams being fake. It looked very much like an attempt to distance after how much you guys had dialogued but not really talked during the day.
I see more of a connection to you trying to buddy with Impo day 1 than the other way around, but I really can't tell if you are just trying to incriminate Impo as being your scum buddy or actually scum budies. What makes me lean more towards you both being scum was Impo's comment in 664 dismissing the idea scum would coach which is exactly what I feel like you 2 were doing, making interactions that just were not substantial and just superficial.

And honestly everything you are posting today is just making things worse for you.
That early push on Smith was disgustingly bad and honestly the kind of thing I would expect from a scum who was disappointed to have killed a VT night 1.
Then this post that you're making me write this stupid response for. There's a lot of things wrong here. First you're fence sitting which I shouldn't even need to explain why that is scummy but I will sense I don't know if you can tell why it's scummy. Scum can't call people town, if they do that lowers the lynch pool and increases their chance to be lynched, scum also can't just call everyone scum because that is such a stupid thing to do. This is where you get fence sitting posts where scum have a dilemma because making reads makes it easier to PoE them. Then you also say that my accusations of you "rub you the wrong way" which already starts off with stating your defense is that my accusation is scummy which is not a defense. You haven't even given any sort of defense to the actual accusation you just accused me, but you didn't. You're still fence sitting not wanting to call me scum for accusing you, and when you say that the posts "rub you the wrong way" you are just drawing attention to the posts as being potentially scummy and not saying why they are scummy. You are wanting someone else to make the accusation because you would be too suspicious to make the accusation yourself.

VOTE: Jae

If your next post does not have reads on me, Impo, Trans, RB, and CCC I will hard tunnel you until you or I die.

You don't know what coaching means, do you? Which is funny because you were trying to do it in your first newbie iirc. Coaching is when someone tells you how to respond to a post. If anything what myself and Impo were doing by your definition would be (really bad) distancing. If we wanted to distance we wouldn't cozy up to each other on account of being friends.
You didn't look at the post in context with how Impo was pushing me. Her saying I don't dumbtell then leaning towards saying that was what I was doing was scummy for her. She knows, I know, and she retracted so it's all good. I've played a lot with her recently on epicmafia and she knows every glaring hole in my scum game because we've discussed it. Her pushing me when she should know I'm town is scummy. She's not even retracting in the manner she does as town, but I'm giving her benefit of the doubt being that chat mafia is slightly different.

I wouldn't have killed gerry, he was doing jack sweet shit, doesn't like playing town, and very obviously to me didn't have a power role to make him want to play the game.
I don't fencesit as scum because I know it's easy to change a read. Town does it all the time so there's no reason why I as scum should need to fencesit. I'm being cautious here because I know I'm prone to omgus and my hardest townread has you as his hardest townread and I generally trust his judgement. He's proven time and again to be a good player as town. I'm also aware that sometimes strong players can be wrong. So yea, I'm fencesitting on those currently voting me because my kneejerk reaction is to omgus and that's never good play regardless of alignment. If I were scum I'd have a stance on you and stick to it because going against you could potentially put me at odds with Transcend.

I can't explain more than it rubs me the wrong way because it's tonal. I like tonal and gut reads. Another point against you is you're not sounding like you did in Donner Party, and I feel like you should know roughly that I operate on tone and gut based off that game as well. At least, you didn't tunnel me there, so that's a large part of my "what gives?" reaction here too.

Also, did you forget you were already voting me, or was that supposed to be for emphasis? -.-

My current reads? I kinda thought they were obvious, but ok. I also kind of think you're going to hard tunnel me regardless of whether I give them or not.

You could be scum, not sure. I don't think you even realize what you're doing, but if you're not scum then you're being extremely stupid right now and I actually have a high opinion of your intelligence, so there's that. I am also aware people can just have a crap game. My individual read on you right now is nullscum but I'm painfully aware that I'm very likely just omgusing and shouldn't actually trust that read right now.

Transcend is my hard town read. I don't know why you would even bother asking about this.

Impo is either nullscum or townlean depending on if she wants to push me and make herself obvious scum. So far she's being a good kitty and as such is town.

CCC is a scum read flat out but holding back on that because smith might be town and if so his opinion is valued.

rb defended lil in a manner I didn't like d1 because I didn't think there was that much to defend him on. I went over this already. I said I wanted to tr him for the paranoia over Impo but knew it wasn't really something to tr him over because it was a post that could easily be made by scum. Then he voted CCC for that terribad push on me and so I'm not sure anymore. Could be attempted buddying and if so it's working to make me rethink and consider rereading. For the time being he's still a scumread but not as strong. If CCC is town then I think there's the chance he's whiteknighting me. If CCC is scum then I don't think that read as a bus, honestly. I mean I could be wrong it's just my take on that.

Now, why did you ask my opinion of those people in particular? I feel like my stances on them are pretty laid out in the thread already. It's obvious I was rethinking my rb scumread by my unvote. It's obvious I'm attempting to not just omgus you and actually sort whether you're scum or bad. It's obvious my townread on Transcend hasn't changed a lick. I'll give you that it's possibly not as obvious that Impo is a read that is practically a coin flip at this stage, and that CCC is a hard scum read that I'm questioning only because of smith. I don't get why you brought up the rest.

Also, me and Impo joking around was just that. I don't understand why you think that has anything to do with how I should be reading her. I can joke around with someone and still like/dislike their tone/content with others. That's how friendship works.

[JaeReed]

gdi i walled.

[JaeReed]

Ah right, guess it was me that forgot since I figured it was a joke vote.

Why do you have suspicions of Trans?

[JaeReed]

I mean yeah I did say I know logically it's nothing worth a townread.

Again, rb's defense of LUV seemed like a whiteknight. It made me think LUV was town and rb was scum defending him yesterday. I don't see why that would change with LUV's townflip? I don't think I implied it was to save his buddy, so...?

[JaeReed]

when uzi is hammered

i'll probably also accept when rb is hammered, dislike him more than uzi atm cuz that wk is gross enough to make me question whether uzi is best lynch yaknow?

trans/io/cloud/herm/impo/gerry town
vw probtown

burger is nullish
smith i'm concerned about

uzi is weak scumlean
rb is scumread
ccc is scumread

i haven't really thought about interactions much further than that but trans said ccc/uzi not a team and i'll trust in that read and rb is wk'ing in a bad way. not too fond of smith's stuff there either wrt to everything but that'll be someth that comes out in the wash i think.

anyways thems my reads, already putting in more effort than i felt like to start w/ tbh

i won't cry tears of blood if uzi is lynched but preference on rb

no i don't think you'd defend uzi like this if you were both scum.. have you not been paying attention? i think uzi is t o w n if you're scum.

@transcend either he wk'ed his partner when it was suboptimal to do so or he's probably just town. it doesn't 100% clear him but enough that i'd probably be looking more at smith over him because smith's interaction about it feels more subtly scummy than outright.

fuck its so weird that someone with a rep for defending their townreads is on my case for defending a townread

r u human Jae?

no u caught me i am merely a figment of everyone's imagination

and yeh it's more that i don't think you have a reason to defend here? I don't think uzi has given u anything to actually defend, which means it feels more like a scum wk than a town defense.

I'm pretty sure I made it abundantly clear i thought it was scum whiteknighting over scum defending a buddy.

[JaeReed]

o hey i finally caught up.

trans is town, cool. sheeping him for the rest of the game.

VOTE: LUV

@smith impo is just awkward regardless of alignment.

Good question, I believe I answered it with my first post.

[JaeReed]

i mean i could but at this stage it'd just be a vanity wagon. I don't feel like pullin' my own wagon, it's more fun to ride 'em

I mean, you do address it here, but it's pretty bizarre to just sheep an existing wagon rather than actively try for your best read, especially when the actions of your best read potentially spew the main wagon town.

I mean assuming my read was right, but I'm more inclined to sheep transcend's reads after I've fucked up massively multiple times lately.

[JaeReed]

i mean i could but at this stage it'd just be a vanity wagon. I don't feel like pullin' my own wagon, it's more fun to ride 'em

i don't think jae's scum but his play this game is peculiar compared to a few games i skimmed with him being town.

again, i don't really use meta that much.

i mean probably meta'ing me this game is useless. the moment i got a hard tr on you i decided i felt like coasting to see what the appeal was. gotta say it's actually a pre good feeling.

i was scum on the fallout shelter in a marathon. not quite the same but copper did dive it and said i tended to seek approval way more and uhh idunno what else.

I know as scum on em I am 1000x more likely to lurk out the day and AtE less... uh idunno what else ask impo she'd probably have a better idea.

I mean I did say I decided I didn't wanna effort that hard this game multiple times.. I gave my reads and basic reasoning for some reads (probably a little more than basic knowing how I tend to ramble). I added to conversations, answered questions i felt like answering, and gave my opinions on what was happening in the thread.. I can do that while applying pressure elsewhere with my townreads you know. So no I think you're just not actually reading what I'm doing this game. Or you are but you're scum /shrug

[JaeReed]

I mean I have answered that. In my ISO. You're not paying attention.

But no I don't believe I have a meta of doing it. That goes for when I've been scum as well as town. I believe also for when I've been 3rd party. Usually I do the sheeping with my vote after I've tried pushing my own reads and can't get them lynched or after I've been proven wrong.

So are you going to say effort is alignment indicative or not? Because that's what you've been leading up to. You're trying to find a reason to place your vote on me; just do it already and stop doing the scum dance around it.

[JaeReed]

i don't think jae's scum but his play this game is peculiar compared to a few games i skimmed with him being town.

again, i don't really use meta that much.

i mean probably meta'ing me this game is useless. the moment i got a hard tr on you i decided i felt like coasting to see what the appeal was. gotta say it's actually a pre good feeling.

i was scum on the fallout shelter in a marathon. not quite the same but copper did dive it and said i tended to seek approval way more and uhh idunno what else.

I know as scum on em I am 1000x more likely to lurk out the day and AtE less... uh idunno what else ask impo she'd probably have a better idea.

It's in the first paragraph here. I felt like I alluded to it a lot but this is the most clear from D1 I think where I said it.

[JaeReed]

Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.

I'd guess that CCC's post was in reaction to this. It's a blanket statement that she's town. So, why did you broadcast what read as relative certainty that she's town, if in fact you're harboring meaningful doubts?

It was made 2 hours after a post where rb specifically asked me if she was town and I responded that she's not on my radar but has lots of could be scum moments. With Impo making one post in between which really wasn't AI.

Mostly, that's "Impo is more town than burger is to me right now" and was an off-handed comment. You're seriously gonna push on semantics? It won't end well for either of us, I can guarantee you that, because I will just hard scumread you and actually push for the lynch. If you're town you REALLY don't want that, buddo.

Hmmmm. I'd read "not on my radar" to mean "not seeing any major signs of scum", thus implying a Townish lean - was this incorrect?

I saw signs of potential scum Impo a few times. I also saw signs of town Impo a few times. She's not pushing me right now so she's not on my radar right now. The moment she starts thinking I'm scum without damn good reason beyond something that could be attributed to paranoia she'll enter my radar so hard everyone else will disappear off it and I'll not emerge from my tunnel until she's tasted rope.

For now, she's being a good girl.

[JaeReed]

So basically you're departing substantially from your normal way of doing things, and sheeping trans regardless of your personal reads logic is part of this. Meh. Null, maybe a scum lean at this point. Would be nice if you had a more defined wolf meta to compare against, but obv there isn't much on that front.

I mean I stated many times as well that LUV did absolutely nothing to make me doubt Transcend's read on him. Obviously if I ended up with a townread on him I wouldn't have been on the wagon. He was as good as any other to be on. I did state my misgivings about rb's whiteknight to the person I was sheeping but as I stated, I wasn't gonna cry tears of blood if LUV was the one to eat rope, I merely had higher preferences.

If you're concerned about my scum meta you can ask Impo how I play as scum.

[JaeReed]

really not seeing it as such a scumtell. Like, I can see how you can interpret it as such, but I don't think it is just because trusting someone else's reads over your own is something I've done before too (oops)?

predit: why would scum "try to look like scummy town"? also jae i know you're joking but if you do that I'm going to tunnel back regardless of whether my read changes on you past that point so don't try it thx

If he was trusting Transcend's reads above his own, then surely he would have had Lil Uzi Vert as his top scumread yesterday (with the reason of "Transcend think this is scum")?

Trusting someone's read over my own doesn't mean I have to disregard my own reads completely. THAT would be scummy, because it'd be trying to avoid drawing associations.

[JaeReed]

It's legitimate to suspect there IMO. The question I have is if they're actually being intentionally lazy as some weird strategy as town, or whether it's a wolf strategy just to try and look like scummy town. If we had a vig I'd say they're a decent shot, but that seems unlikely with just one death n1.

No. If you think I could be intentionally lazy as a town strategy then you do not call for a fucking vig on me.

VOTE: smith

This is scum.

[JaeReed]

also jae i know you're joking but if you do that I'm going to tunnel back regardless of whether my read changes on you past that point so don't try it thx

Not joking. You make shit pushes on me as scum. That's what I look out for with you. There's a line where I won't accept town paranoia as an excuse. So don't cross it.

[JaeReed]

Given that we pretty obviously do not actually have a vig, and all I said was "they're a decent shot" why did you interpret that as actively calling for a vig?

No, we don't pretty obviously not have a vig. There could be any number of reasons for the vig not shooting N1. Even night vig, noncon, 1shot to name a few. Then there's the possibility they DID shoot and both vig & scum shot gerry. There's the possibility that they shot and there was a doc save on one of the kills. So no, it's not pretty obvious.

Saying I'm a decent shot is implying that you want me vigged.

pedit: yup, you're trying to tell the vig where to shoot is the theory. I don't like it.

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

[JaeReed]

Given one n1 death, I'd put odds of any kind of vig (or sk or multiball) at something like 10%. So yes, it seems quite unlikely. So to interpret that as my actively trying to direct vig shots (much less that I'd have any real confidence in it working as an offhand comment) is strange. Have you ever seen scum actually do this?

Actually, not sure. Probably not since I can't think of anything off the top of my head. People try to direct the vig shot all the time in games but I don't know if scum are more likely to than town. It's more who you're trying to direct it on that I have a problem with. Especially given everything that has happened so far in thread, I feel you should have a very solid reason as town to not try me here.

Much less do this in a back and forth conversation in the middle of the day phase, late night real time, when few are around? Like, that's a SUPER defensive reaction to a pretty off hand comment. Is major defensiveness normal for your town game? Some people are like that, but my sense is that level of it is fairly uncommon.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8226991

It's not normal but it happens.

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

[JaeReed]

Especially given everything that has happened so far in thread, I feel you should have a very solid reason as town to not try me here.

So basically you think you're obv!town and that I should know it and that all pushes against you are illegitimate? Or something else?

I think you specifically should know I'm town.

[JaeReed]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8200559
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8326722

This was a fun and enlightening dive that may or may not have helped along some confbias. We'll see with the flip.

VOTE: CCC

p-edit - you should check my reads list that io asked for, smitho

[JaeReed]

burger/ccc

last maf i'm less sure on.

if ccc is scum then smith is more likely to be town i think.

[JaeReed]

That reads list was a decent post (though a bit neutral about Io and impo). It doesn't make you cleared town given day chat and the possibility it was discussed in PT, but it's worth villager points.

What in particular strikes you as more similar to ccc scum game than town game in comparing isos?

Tone. There's a glaring tonal difference and his scum game tone matches this one to a T.

concerning 1st paragraph uhhh ok sure. I'm fine with that.

[JaeReed]

Can you also discuss why trans is such a strong TR for you? You've stated it a bunch of times, but I don't think you've really laid out WHY it's such a strong read.

I can't really. It's gut & tone. I just don't think his early play was his scumplay, and I am very strongly of that opinion.

[JaeReed]

^ I mean... I probably could try if I wanted to but it's nearing time for the halloween crowd because Australia so I really don't wanna try to find what I liked so much and then attempt to explain what was essentially my gut going "this is 100% town"

[JaeReed]

Not played with, no. I watched him in this game.

https://epicmafia.com/topic/79723

I also thought he was obvtown as town in this game.

https://epicmafia.com/topic/80150

[JaeReed]

Burger is kind of interesting, a lot of (her?) content so far related to the back and forth between me and Io early d1. I'm VERY curious to see what BK is currently seeing in the game, ditto vw, cloud, hermie... lol that's close to half the game.

Cloud is VLA for 3 days I think.

[JaeReed]

Yeah that's pretty much what I'd draw from that when looking for my last maf candidate. I think it's harder to tell where lolhammers are concerned, though.

[JaeReed]

@Trans I thought smith said CCC was townish for him tho.

I really feel strongly about CCC more than anyone else in this game.

But the wk of uzi d1 from rb was awful too so bleh. :/ I kinda liked the way he essentially chainsawed for me tho. I guess it could have been attempted buddying. It felt more natural than Burger's vote on CCC to me tho.

Anyway yeah...

Lynches I'd love: CCC
Lynches I'd settle for: Burger, rb, hermie

Really I just want CCC to eat rope and it's getting harder to see outside that tunnel. Can we just do that instead? I'm way more confident there. One of rb/bk was bussing/distancing with the vote pile on. I doubt both were.

[JaeReed]

This guy has been up my ass all game.

Why you clampin your tail down bro?
I'm just tryin to say hello!

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

This is actually confirmed mafia in my eyes right now.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4&start=50

Wake & Drixx already disproved this train of thought in the dead thread with you.

[JaeReed]

also wtf is a "null-town". i think u mean townlean right?

null-town is weaker than a townlean.

[JaeReed]

I also think Jae has forgotten that I've pushed on them as both alignments and they reacted by omgusing every time. /salt

I haven't forgotten. That's why I made the distinction about paranoia.

But I don't know if you forgot how fake my omgus was to you when I did it as maf.

anyway if you're maf here you've kinda pocketed me now so gj

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

Uhhh Impo already townreads me.

Io literally the only reason I don't have you as scum right now is because Trans is pretty adamant you're town and I am certain he's town. If you're town you need to rethink or at least get a new wagon to sit on & confbias the hell out of.

[JaeReed]

sighhh ^ ignore the quote there. This site has issues.

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

IO, can you please be more specific about what interaction(s) between jaereed and I seems/seem disingenuous to you?

I also think Jae has forgotten that I've pushed on them as both alignments and they reacted by omgusing every time. /salt

I haven't forgotten. That's why I made the distinction about paranoia.

But I don't know if you forgot how fake my omgus was to you when I did it as maf.

anyway if you're maf here you've kinda pocketed me now so gj

I still think you're the one pocketing Impo at this point.

Especially since Impo said the same things about my reads (894) that CCC said about yours (985) and you only applied the reasoning to CCC.

I don't get it? Impo asked you for an example of where our interactions seemed not genuine. CCC stated he doesn't care what my reads are and doesn't seem to want more information on that, either. CCC has been like this all day phase, too. He hasn't tried to see if his read on me could be wrong; he's just focused on how he can possibly get his mislynch.

[JaeReed]

ok so been up to post 30 of Lil Uzi's ISO in the game rb directed us to and I still don't see the supposed similarity in his play there to here.

Also going through his iso here...
Io had a valid reaction to Uzi's read and her vote on him reads town.
Dislike Hermie's thing in LUV's last post. It feels like overjustification. "If this flips town then it's not a bad thing" kinda stuff rubs me the wrong way.

[JaeReed]

ehhnn I'm happy with an rb lynch again.

[JaeReed]

Smith, with all due respect... Whether I can explain it or not does not matter. Every time I try to case someone people actually actively start going against my read or I get confused and 180 off scum because I can't explain it sufficiently enough for even myself.

My casings make people go against my reads. I'm not putting in that amount of effort again. It's disheartening and frustrating and I'd rather just explain the broader concept and know that it'll have the same goddamn end result.

I'm not doing it. I can't. My reads in my past few games have been crap anyway and transcend pointed that out to me and then demonstrated it quite painfully clearly despite me efforting hard that whole game.

[JaeReed]

JaeReed: What's your read on Impoetic at this current moment? Keep in mind: the only answers acceptable for this question are "Town" or "Scum".

Town, then. If I have to choose it's town. I think she'd be more focused on getting town read than she has been if she were maf. I don't think she would mention a reason for thinking I'm town that she can't push on, because it weakens her standing to do so.

She's sticking her neck out for me where she doesn't have a reason to do so as maf. In that situation she'd be better off buddying the stronger players I think. Or at least someone with more sway in the game.

[JaeReed]

What? I gave you my answer. Did you not want the read explained? You didn't say I was limited to only the read with no reasoning. -.-

[JaeReed]

Explaining yourself matters in a few ways:

1) You'll improve as you get experience actually laying things out
2) You'll have a chance to convince people you're right, and (if you're town) just as importantly give people a chance to engage with your read in case it's wrong, and convince you that it's wrong
3) Through being open about your process, you can enable the rest of the board to read you better

1) This has been proven false to me through every previous game of mine where I have tried. In fact, I got WORSE at getting my point across every game I tried to do it in.
2) town should do their own research and see if they agree or not. I gave the links to ISOs for comparison. And people engaging with me on my reads reasonings and forcing me to try to case is often why I'll 180 off scum. Not that it matters anyway because I literally can't get scum lynched no matter what I do. Even if people decide to sheep me it's just because I'm on fucking town so no. I'm not wasting my time trying to force explain something when that doesn't come easily to me.
3) I don't care. If people are bad enough to not realize I am town by now then I don't fucking care to try to obvtown for their benefit. Because they'll keep on their stupid confbias anyway.

Like, wrt CCC you should be able to point out the glaring difference. Are they high energy one game, low the other? Snarky vs serious? High emotion vs kind of dull? etc

Even that much will at least help to clarify where you're coming from. It's much harder when you simply say there's a glaring difference, because it's not helpful to other people to say there's something there, when you could just explicitly point it out instead.

No, I can't. I said that I can't and I mean it. I am literally getting worse at this game with every game I play. There's a reason I decided to coast this game after I got my town read on transcend. If I could explain it in as simple words as you just provided don't you think I would have done it by now?

It's helpful to other people because they can look and draw their own opinions based on the links I gave to support my assertions. If they can't see what I can see then they're never going to no matter what I say.

I'd further point out that in your push on CCC, by not being clear about what you're seeing, if he's mafia (which I really don't buy), he's able to discredit your read since you seemingly can't back it up. And if he's town, he's going to think you're full of shit and casting shade that you can't back up, and (somewhat predictably) think you're a wolf for it.

If I can't be clear about a read because I can't words then I don't need to have it rubbed in my goddamn face. I have given my evidence and tried to explain it in literally the only way I can.

He's just not town. I can't explain it but he's not town. That's not a town push on me. Io is a town push on me.

[JaeReed]

1) This has been proven false to me through every previous game of mine where I have tried. In fact, I got WORSE at getting my point across every game I tried to do it in.

...I fail to see how

not

explaining would be better than a poor explanation. You're not getting your point across at

all

by remaining silent.

I have not remained silent.
You are not on mafia right now. So no, you're not going to find any mafia after you fail to lynch me.
You just picked out one part and ignored the part where I literally said I can't get my words to do what I want to explain it. I cannot explain it. There's a basis there that I can't explain, and I was actually relying on someone else looking at the evidence and putting it into words because I can't. Not everyone can manage to spin words their way all the fucking time.

[JaeReed]

1) This has been proven false to me through every previous game of mine where I have tried. In fact, I got WORSE at getting my point across every game I tried to do it in.

...I fail to see how

not

explaining would be better than a poor explanation. You're not getting your point across at

all

by remaining silent.

I have not remained silent.
You are not on mafia right now. So no, you're not going to find any mafia after you fail to lynch me.
You just picked out one part and ignored the part where I literally said I can't get my words to do what I want to explain it. I cannot explain it. There's a basis there that I can't explain, and I was actually relying on someone else looking at the evidence and putting it into words because I can't. Not everyone can manage to spin words their way all the fucking time.

There is a difference between not attempting to explain, and explaining badly. Inherently if you at least gave a poor explanation it would help whereas no explanation doesn't help and is incredibly scummy.
Anyone can say 'X is scummy' and when asked why just say 'they feel like scum.' Now, that's not inherently bad it just means you're not contributing reads at all. But when you say "I was actually relying on someone else looking at the evidence and putting it into words" that is where the problem with this comes in. If you use this to give a defense for not explaining reads you must also provide the evidence you were using. Not giving explination and not giving evidence is what is extremely scummy. At least if you give evidence then you can say this and it be OK as you provide the evidence and let people draw conclusions, but you're wanting people to find evidence to back up your FoS and then also provide the actual accusation pretty much removing as much of the blame of a mislynch as you possibly can.
This is why I always say this is a scum tell because of how lazy it is and how easy it is for scum to replicate and not take the blame for a mislynch they are pushing to start.

FUCK ME I GAVE EVIDENCE

I GAVE THE FUCKING LINKS AND EXPLAINED WHAT I WANTED PEOPLE TO LOOK AT WITH REGARDS TO THE DIFFERENCES.
STOP WITH THIS MISREPPY BULLSHIT THIS IS THE ACTUAL LITERAL WORST THING YOU CAN DO AS TOWN.

I LITERALLY GAVE THE EVIDENCE I WAS ABLE TO GIVE LIKE FUCK OFF

[JaeReed]

Jae seems very certain that Impoetic is Town, and I'm wondering why.

This is interesting because I said in 826 that I get glimpses of "oh she's scum" but she's not on my immediate radar. He followed one post where I handwaved her because I'm not looking too deeply at her right now and ignored my response to rb specifically asking about my read on her.

UNVOTE:

I'm starting to omgus tho so... need a sec to sort properly i guess.

Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.

I'd guess that CCC's post was in reaction to this. It's a blanket statement that she's town. So, why did you broadcast what read as relative certainty that she's town, if in fact you're harboring meaningful doubts?

It was made 2 hours after a post where rb specifically asked me if she was town and I responded that she's not on my radar but has lots of could be scum moments. With Impo making one post in between which really wasn't AI.

Mostly, that's "Impo is more town than burger is to me right now" and was an off-handed comment. You're seriously gonna push on semantics? It won't end well for either of us, I can guarantee you that, because I will just hard scumread you and actually push for the lynch. If you're town you REALLY don't want that, buddo.

I can potentially buy that it's an off-handed comment that was communicated badly (especially in the context of 826 not long before), but nevertheless, what you expressed was more certainty than that. Why do you think it's odd for you to be questioned on it?

I think it's more odd that I wasn't questioned. He wasn't questioning at all or trying to understand whether my reads were genuine or not, he was casing and addressing the other players. It rubs me the wrong way.

CCC is a scum read flat out but holding back on that because smith might be town and if so his opinion is valued.

rb defended lil in a manner I didn't like d1 because I didn't think there was that much to defend him on. I went over this already. I said I wanted to tr him for the paranoia over Impo but knew it wasn't really something to tr him over because it was a post that could easily be made by scum. Then he voted CCC for that terribad push on me and so I'm not sure anymore. Could be attempted buddying and if so it's working to make me rethink and consider rereading. For the time being he's still a scumread but not as strong. If CCC is town then I think there's the chance he's whiteknighting me. If CCC is scum then I don't think that read as a bus, honestly. I mean I could be wrong it's just my take on that.

Maybe you could look through my ISO and find it yourself. I'm sick of quoting myself 5 million times. Here's a sampling. There's also the posts where I meta-dived and provided the links to his town game and scum game, and cited that I found there to be a huge tonal difference between them; and one which he's matching to his scum tone here.

Anyone pushing me at this point is scum, minus Io. I'm including smith in that. He's trying to come across as helpful but in doing so he's tried to make out like I not once brought up a point against CCC and this clearly shows that I did already try to, in fact, and in a back and forth with smith himself. So in fact, he proved my fucking point.

My scumpool is smith, ccc, hermie, rb, burger.
smith and ccc aren't scum together.

[JaeReed]

@CCC I literally quoted a handful of posts already I am not doing it again. Go.Through.My.ISO.And.Learn.You.Haven't.Been.Reading.

VOTE: rb

[JaeReed]

@CCC I literally quoted a handful of posts already I am not doing it again. Go.Through.My.ISO.And.Learn.You.Haven't.Been.Reading.

VOTE: rb

The only thing I saw in those posts you quoted was that you think I'm scum because I made a case on you instead of asking you direct questions. It seems a bit weak to me; that's a matter of playstyle, not alignment.

It's still a reason. You started with the read and worked backwards from my pov.

[JaeReed]

Since I doubt all 3 scum would lurk so hard

If this happened two games in a row I'll actually be pissed.

[JaeReed]

@CCC I literally quoted a handful of posts already I am not doing it again. Go.Through.My.ISO.And.Learn.You.Haven't.Been.Reading.

VOTE: rb

The only thing I saw in those posts you quoted was that you think I'm scum because I made a case on you instead of asking you direct questions. It seems a bit weak to me; that's a matter of playstyle, not alignment.

It's still a reason. You started with the read and worked backwards from my pov.

My read on you is because you were voting for your third-top scumread on day one, instead of your top scumread.

Which is something that town does a lot. I skipped the compromise part but I was feeling out whether Transcend would be willing to lynch my top sr instead. I hardly expected a lolhammer but I wasn't going to cry about it if the guy was lynched either, since it got my sr lynched the next day.

[JaeReed]

My read on you is because you were voting for your third-top scumread on day one, instead of your top scumread.

Which is something that town does a lot.

As a compromise to get a lynch, maybe, but out of the blue like that? In previous games, I've seen scum do it twice, but I don't believe I've ever seen Town do it.

I skipped the compromise part but I was feeling out whether Transcend would be willing to lynch my top sr instead. I hardly expected a lolhammer but I wasn't going to cry about it if the guy was lynched either, since it got my sr lynched the next day.

Uh... why would Uzi getting lynched yesterday have got me or rb lynched today?

Well you've seen town do it now.

Rb was my sr yesterday that I wanted. He was hard whiteknighting uzi. Uzi's flip if town would implicate him for today, as it has.

[JaeReed]

He's Townreading JaeReed, and providing Jae with lots of advice on how to improve his Towngame (see here or here) in ways that look like Town talking to a Townread to my eye.

Don't townread someone for being helpful that's NAI.

[JaeReed]

Smith, claim.

[JaeReed]

Impo is either exactly a scum doc or she's town with latter way likelier; ccc communication result was kinda flagrant, though that makes sense for a 1-shot.

Why do you think I think you should claim, smith?

[JaeReed]

I have no fucking clue Jae.

This is an outright lie.

[JaeReed]

Smith and io are town

Everyone else can fuck off

Maybe Jae is town because why would he kill CCC

Fuck this

I'm here to save you, don't worry.

[JaeReed]

Impoetic is town.

CCC being town makes Smith confirmed scum.

[JaeReed]

I have no fucking clue Jae.

This is an outright lie.

You're softing a PR claim of some sort or this is continuation of our d2 back and forth. But you're clearly softing something, so fake a cop guilty or say what's actually up.

YOU claim first. I'm not letting you get out of this.

You're not doctor. You saw CCC pretty much claim, and you didn't save him.

So claim.

[JaeReed]

I have no fucking clue Jae.

This is an outright lie.

You're softing a PR claim of some sort or this is continuation of our d2 back and forth. But you're clearly softing something, so fake a cop guilty or say what's actually up.

I'm talking to smith. The rest of you don't need to worry about it til he claims and I cc. That's all.

[JaeReed]

No, Trans wait. Help me make smith claim, please.

[JaeReed]

No, Trans wait. Help me make smith claim, please.

You'll be waiting a few minutes.

That's fine. I literally need smith to claim first or he is going to wriggle his way out of this.

p-edit: GET THE FUCK OFF VW HE IS TOWN

[JaeReed]

In fact, Io, why aren't you on me right now? You were apparently certain last day phase that I was mafia.

[JaeReed]

Actually, let's go here.

VOTE: Cloud

This is actually confirmed scum btw.

[JaeReed]

Cloud's actually confirmed town.

Your reasoning?

[JaeReed]

Cloud's actually confirmed town.

Actually, so you're CC'ing me? There's no other way for me to interpret that sentence.

[JaeReed]

There is no way you're a town investigative with a 1 shot GS already flipped.

I am town tracker.

N1 I tracked smith to CCC.
N2 I tracked Cloud to CCC.

Io/Smith/Cloud or at the VERY least Io/Cloud/???

GG people.

[JaeReed]

Smith rolecopped CCC N1, and Cloud the goon killed CCC last night.

Then Io the moron tried to CC me lol.

[JaeReed]

VW is confirmed town because Cloud is confirmed scum. He was literally tracked to the kill.

[JaeReed]

There is no way you're a town investigative with a 1 shot GS already flipped.

You're correct I'm not.
But Smith is.

He Neighborized Cloud night 1 and me night 2.

Cloud if scum should have immediately killed Smith night 2.

SMITH DID NOT NEIGHBORIZE CLOUD N1 HE WENT TO CCC.

This is a lie. LOL YOU JUST FAILED AND CONDEMNED YOUR WHOLE TEAM YOU MORON

[JaeReed]

It doesn't matter. The whole scum team has been found. Go for Cloud first. Io just fucked up in trying to get my claim, and confirmed her whole team.

@Transcend I can't believe you were that off in reading Io lol

[JaeReed]

Io you realize even if you lynch me you've still confirmed your whole team to the rest of the game?

It doesn't matter now. Town is in autowin.

[JaeReed]

Like, if town wants to lynch me to verify my claim at this point that's fine. Just remember:

N1 smith visited ccc.
N2 cloud visited ccc and ccc died.

We have already flipped a 1 shot GS.
I am unlimited shot tracker.
There are no more investigative roles. If Smith were a protective role he would have been on ccc again last night as ccc softed GS. So he is not a protective role.

Io claimed smith is neighborizer and visited Cloud N1, this directly contradicts my report, and yes, I can confirm there is no wiggle room for interpretation. Names were specifically used.

[JaeReed]

VW is confirmed town through the way confirmed scum Cloud started on him today.
Impoetic is confirmed town through CCC's gunsmith report on her.

[JaeReed]

Well I mean. I could have accidentally neighborized the whole mafia, but I refuse to believe both Smith and Cloud are mafia.
Smith might be since he was only neighborized last night, but I did Neighborize Cloud night 1 and he did not kill me.

And now Io changes her claim from SMITH being the neighbourizer to herself being the neighbourizer because she fucked up.

[JaeReed]

1) You're the one more likely to be able to wriggle away from it by knowing my role. Cloud is not that competent, and I had a more solid result on him since I tracked him to the kill knowing he can't be a protective or investigative.
2) D2 I thought that doc was a possibility other than rolecop if you had thought mafia would have tried to kill CCC. Him dying last night proved you weren't because everyone with eyes caught that soft. If we have a doc they're either newb or haven't been paying attention. Plus I knew SOMEONE would bring that up so I pre-empted it. There's no way you're doc.

Io if you are town then your play this game has been awful.

Also, smith bringing up a scum doc is a way to throw shade on the inno CCC had of Impo.

[JaeReed]

I'm not necessarily the best person at making gambits to draw out scum fakeclaims.
Still pretty sure Jae's claim is fake.

That is LITERALLY the worst possible thing you could have done if you're town. If smith is town then he could have proven it with his fucking claim. Instead, you have lied.

Anyone who fakeclaims gets a fucking lynch from me. I learned my lesson on letting scumfucks fakeclaim and get away with it. I'm not losing another game to that bullshit.

[JaeReed]

Io if you are town then your play this game has been awful.

You've been extremely scummy this whole game and then claim that the mafia has a neighborizer and role cop. At least think about the claims you make and realize you sound like a buffoon with how unbalanced you propose this game to be.

Shut up. You deliberately ruined the town tracker's attempt to confirm whether they had 2/3 or just 1/3 mafia. You deliberately ruined it and LIED TO DO SO.

So you can stfu.

Yes I am aware that mafia don't have a neighborizer. If you're mafia you're not a fucking neighbourizer and you're just scum with both of cloud and smith. Get over yourself.

[JaeReed]

hah okay

ok so i thought dayvig was non normal so wouldn't be here but i just checked and i might be wrong so gonna throw this out there

if it's a real vig then DO NOT lynch transcend w/ my flip. any push on him will be a scumclaim, ta.

did it tell you much?

i mean i could but at this stage it'd just be a vanity wagon. I don't feel like pullin' my own wagon, it's more fun to ride 'em

Guys I was serious about facepalm emoji. everyone who uses it is always maf

ehhhnn i need more than that tbh at this stage since dunnstral has used the facepalm as town before

and then i tunneled him for it because he also did it as scum once

. wrt rb i am like this rn

[JaeReed]

If I was scum knowing ccc used 1-shot on impo I'd shoot impo because she's nearly confirmed town and might be a pr. Like, duh.

To be fair in Jae's claim you could have also been a Tracker or Follower which wouldn't know he would be 1-shot.

True. My point is his narrative is ridiculous.

Right, well I wasn't thinking about that. It was more a continuation on my thoughts from D2.

To be fair when I originally came in D2 I could only see you visiting CCC N1 as an investigative because doc doesn't make sense in my mind (especially given Gerry's death and you saying it was a PR hunt - implying that you would have doc'ed Gerry instead), and I didn't think you could be an investigative unless you were 1shot cop or something, which is why I asked if CCC was confirmed town to you. You answered to the negative, which means you are more likely a protective or roleblocker/rolecop. You're not roleblocker or jailkeeper because CCC got a result on Impo, and you inadvertently affirmed that he was expected to get a result there.

My narrative isn't ridiculous. You're still some kind of investigative scum. You're just not rolecop.

[JaeReed]

Alright, then that makes it very simple.

We lynch Cloud. He visited CCC last night. If he flips town (he won't) then I'm confirmed scum.

[JaeReed]

Him flipping goon validates my claim and if there's a doc they should be on me.

[JaeReed]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8464342

[JaeReed]

actually doc needs to flip a coin between me/impo with this flip. forgot she's conftown. also with vw since cloud made it painfully clear here vw is town.

[JaeReed]

If he claimed vanilla with a tracker result on him then he is actually a VI, but I'm fairly sure he's just trolling.

Like, I can't think of anything that would visit CCC last night when CCC was killed that isn't actually just scum doing the killing, given the claimed roles, my own role, and the flipped gs.

[JaeReed]

If he were a town roleblocker he wouldn't visit the person who softed GS.

[JaeReed]

you're claiming doc?

[JaeReed]

I had already claimed.

[JaeReed]

If you're town you just fucking lost us the game.

[JaeReed]

and yes theres strongarm, i was on ccc because of the soft anyway good luck

And u thought lying was a good idea??? God I hope you're just scum trolling here

+

[JaeReed]

There is no way you're a town investigative with a 1 shot GS already flipped.

I am town tracker.

N1 I tracked smith to CCC.
N2 I tracked Cloud to CCC.

Io/Smith/Cloud or at the VERY least Io/Cloud/???

GG people.

I did hardclaim.

Cloud, if you're town then I'm going to be extremely fucking pissed.
If you're scum, well shit, good job at making me scared I just lost us the game.

[JaeReed]

If you're doc regardless of the kill going through you fucking claim it because there'll be more discussion than you claiming you have no night actions when I've already claimed you used one.

[JaeReed]

Jesus christ we just fucking lost the game.

[JaeReed]

WHAT

YOU LITERALLY KNEW I CLAIMED YOUR CORRECT ACTION AT NIGHT

I ALREADY CLAIMED

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[JaeReed]

YOU LITERALLY KNEW I CLAIMED YOUR CORRECT ACTION AT NIGHT

CLOUD THIS RIGHT HERE WAS WHAT SHOULD HAVE TOLD YOU I WAS TELLING THE FUCKING TRUTH WHEN I CLAIMED TRACKER HOLY SHIT

[JaeReed]

God damnit I am fucking townreading smith for being as pissed off as I am even though I know that's one of the easier things for maf to fake and he'd probably be pissed at that play no matter his alignment because it's just bad but FUCK

[JaeReed]

People I'm pissed at if town:

Cloud
Io (to a lesser extent, but fakeclaiming on behalf of smith was awful, awful play and it caused the town tracker to out before they got the information they needed to tell if they had 2/3 or 1/3 mafia)

People allowed to be pissed at me if they're town:

Smith

[JaeReed]

But from my perspective Jae's claim was a counter claim to my role, but from your point of view you should have known he was telling the truth.

HOW is it a counter claim to your role? Do you honestly not understand how your role works?

[JaeReed]

But from my perspective Jae's claim was a counter claim to my role, but from your point of view you should have known he was telling the truth.

HOW is it a counter claim to your role? Do you honestly not understand how your role works?

Yes I do. It's an informative role. You know the same a Gunsmith and Tracker.
You were claiming to be a third informative role for the town which is insanely strong in my opinion.

Ok, you don't.

Neighborizer invites players into a neighborhood. It does not tell you their alignment or anything else, it just gives you a chat with them. Regardless of alignment they are still invited into your neighborhood.

MASONIZER will fail if you target scum with it, and as such you can use it to confirm town.

[JaeReed]

Uh no. Neighborizer is very informative. You get to talk with people very close and that is key in discerning a player's alignment. It's slightly less powerful than an interrogator since other peopel get to listen in on your interrogations, but it's very good at discerning player's alignments. At least that's how I view it. You just need to know how to talk to people and get them to town or scum slip.

From a setup POV it's not something that counterclaims tracker/1shot gs. It's something that is designed to complement it.

[JaeReed]

what HAPPENED here

You're confirmed town because CCC flipped 1 shot gunsmith and claimed your hands are empty yesterday.

I claimed tracker, I saw Cloud visit CCC last night.
Cloud claimed nilla.
We speedlynched Cloud.
Cloud claimed doctor.

I'm so.fucking.done.

[JaeReed]

Smith, at the end of the day, ure still the one who didnt let doc talk and lynched him, not me

Cloud, a word of advice.

Don't lie as town.

Another word of advice.

Don't lie as town PR when people are demanding you claim.

A third word of advice?

If someone correctly claims your night action THEN DON'T CLAIM FUCKING VANILLA REGARDLESS OF ALIGNMENT.

[JaeReed]

you literally said he visited ccc. Why would you be 'done'? Clearly he can't be doctor. And why were you asking MHSMITH to claim?

If there's a strongman like he's claiming then he can be doctor. CCC softed so fucking hard that there's no way scum wouldn't use strongman on someone who can get definitive guilty/innos.

I saw smith visit ccc n1 and was stuck on thinking he was rolecop cuz of that. I stayed in that tunnel thought today despite the gunsmith flipping only 1shot, so the chances of smith being rolecop is lower since he would have known it was safe to kill outside ccc.

[JaeReed]

I don't think I've ever been in a game where I've wanted to be nightkilled more than this.

Like I'm pre sure I've just been confirmed tracker by both Cloud and smith so it's not like I'm a mislynch target so hopefully... but urgh. Like as a town PR I can't believe I've been driven to just...wanting death.

Anyway, Io is probably town.
Impo is confirmed town.
Smith needs to claim tomorrow, and hopefully stuff works out from there.

rb is the closest to confirmed scum we have.

This all assuming Cloud flips town.

[JaeReed]

ccc said impoe had empty hands -> inno

He also said it wouldn't make sense until we saw him flip (despite it being extremely obvious but I don't know if he was deliberately baiting the kill there since he only had the one shot)

[JaeReed]

I swear on my ass I'm town

Probably. For you to be scum it would mean my hard early read of the game was wrong.

[JaeReed]

I don't think I've ever been in a game where I've wanted to be nightkilled more than this.

Like I'm pre sure I've just been confirmed tracker by both Cloud and smith so it's not like I'm a mislynch target so hopefully... but urgh. Like as a town PR I can't believe I've been driven to just...wanting death.

Anyway, Io is probably town.
Impo is confirmed town.
Smith needs to claim tomorrow, and hopefully stuff works out from there.

rb is the closest to confirmed scum we have.

This all assuming Cloud flips town.

its funny that you still doubt i am town after all this crap

Did I say I doubt it? I'm putting out my final reads in the hopes I get nightkilled. Assuming you're town for it doesn't mean I doubt you're town. If you have actually kept up a troll as scum like this for so long and so believably then I fucking don't know. I don't think this is a troll, hence doing my final reads I say assuming you flip town.

[JaeReed]

And im trolling you guys on my win

Honestly, I actually fucking wish there could be a jester in normals because it would make what you did less painful.

[JaeReed]

Yep. At this point I need to bet the game on someone.

Jae, why did you track me n1 and cloud n2? And why scum read me d2 after tracking me to someone who didn't die?

If you choose wrong and die with scum nightkilling elsewhere then we'll lose.

Tracked you N1 because my pool was you, burger, rb, ccc. I had actually softed that I'd be on rb but changed my mind and went with you because you're the more concerning to me if maf. Uzi's flip implicated rb regardless and I wasn't sure on you being town.
Cloud N2 because I was thinking between him and transcend, and knew I'd feel stupid postgame if I tracked a vt transcend to nowhere over choosing the potential lurker scum. There's a little more in that Cloud thing but I can't talk about it for site rule reasons.

My thoughts on my result from you were:
Probably not doc because he'd be on someone more high profile that he townreads, unless he's betting on trans!scum but I doubt it. The choice of CCC doesn't make sense for doc.
Possibility of another town investigative? One or two shot wouldn't make it too unbalanced depending on scumteam roles. Something like gs or similar like the mini normal nahdia ran. Chances are lower.
Possibility of a scum investigative? Chances are higher.

There was a small chance for town investigative which is why I asked about your ccc read so you could soft. You didn't seem to be softing a hard inno. But that was the whole point where I made the post saying you get benefit of the doubt, because despite there being a small chance, it was a chance that I felt couldn't be overlooked.

[JaeReed]

^ which is why today I thought there's no way you're town then. Because a 1shot GS already flipped.

[JaeReed]

sighhh and now I'm pointing to vw instead of my own post. rip

[JaeReed]

I'm fine with smith visiting me. I'm likely to die tonight and think that's safest if smith's claim is true.

[JaeReed]

Technically impo is safest but at some point you have to roll the dice. Obv if jae is scum then it's gg unless I suss out and go to impo instead. Also don't track me jae, track someone who might actually be scum just in case they shoot impo instead of you.

Obviously.

[JaeReed]

Before sonia locks the thread, i may not be here at the start of day tomorrow.

NO ONE VOTES PERIOD.

UNDERSTOOD?

Scum will blitz your vote if you make an incorrect vote.

Wanna have this here for the start of tomorrow.

[JaeReed]

Can we massclaim? Transcend unvote for now please.

[JaeReed]

Wait nvm that might be stupid ^

[JaeReed]

@Doc thanks fam I was sure I was dead lmao.

[JaeReed]

Someone give me a run down on where we are.

Claims so far:
I claimed tracker, tracked Cloud to CCC's death N2, tracked smith to CCC N1.
Smith claims odd-night weak visitor. Visited CCC N1.
Io claimed neighborizer. Visited Cloud N1, smith N2.
CCC flipped 1-shot gunsmith and said Impo's hands are empty.

No signs of town killing power so I'm going with Impoetic being conf-town at this stage.
2 weakish investigatives and I'm ungated so I'd say that's fairly strong.
And a neighborizer (no, Io, I still don't count it as an investigative role).

[JaeReed]

yeahhh Cloud's trolling yesterday about him being a doc that was strongmanned really had me sweating considering we were going into night.

Cloud, I either hate you or love you and I can't tell which. That was 10/10.

[JaeReed]

@Titus you probably won't, but if you want to read up a bit, Cloud trolled pretty hard about being doc when we lynched him after he claimed VT when I claimed I tracked him to the kill, so there's quite a few reactions there that might be sortable for genuineness. From like, roughly here http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8481797 (like 10 pages)

[JaeReed]

I saw it, I'm still processing the no kill w/ my result and trying to figure out if I should out it yet.

[JaeReed]

I saw it, I'm still processing the no kill w/ my result and trying to figure out if I should out it yet.

You should. We just lynched scum. Let's box them in.

I might be outing the doc over scum. In which case the result is useless, and actually harmful to out.

[JaeReed]

It's not a guarantee that I've tracked scum, Titus. I might just be outing the doctor. And if I do that then we're back to hardly any leads, except with scum able to kill the doc.

I'm in the neighbourhood with Io and smith. Give me a second to read up on everything in there.

Just please let me hold off for a sec.