Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[shaddowez]

Catch up post is just about done, so here's my reads prior (mostly off memory, I really need to start taking notes). I'll do an up to date one once I've done my catch up post.

Town - farside, Wisdom, kraska
Leantown - Kagami, Tammy
Leanscum - Cakez, Infinity, Nacho
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

Everyone else was null due to lack of content or not being able to get a read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

/replace

I'm not going to be able to follow two games at once in this state, sorry.

Searching for a replacement for Wraith ...

[shaddowez]

A lot of this is old since a lot happened, but I'm going through everything.

to be clearer: Making a post without being over the top tryhard is not a playstyle adjustment, therefore arguing "yeah he wouldnt playstyle adjust so you dont have a point" is bullshit

i dont see how infinity was being "over the top tryhard" i think it was the opposite his posting emanates nervousness/wariness. but nyway ur point was he would have stopped probing people for answers to useless questions...which is still bs considering the timespan

I don't like "you can't possibly believe this you're scum" arguments, do you often find that you can find scum in that way?

Can you please explain what you mean by this? I don't see that type of argument from either of them, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

Shadow's opening post looks motivated by "being safe." The initial part of his rule-of-three 147 is reasonable, but I don't like the wisdom bit and the final part also feels limp-wristed to me, as if the point were to mention an buddy in a negative light.

I also think the townreads on infinity aren't terribly well justified, and am suspicious that three players have it. I would guess that exactly one infinity-defender is scum regardless of his alignment.

What's the "rule-of-three"? Also, how do you feel I was being safe in my opening post?

shadow's play in the purge mafia came off as "playing safe" and he got scumread for it...im waiting for more content but i think shadow laying low and playing safe isnt particularly scummy for him

pedit: theres pere too i think

This post makes me hard townread kraska for reasons that I feel would be detrimental to town to say right now.

There's a difference between playing safe and having intent to play safe (especially in RVS).

I'm still not sure what you mean. How does any vote count as "playing safe" in RVS?

I don't like how much fluff this guy has

Explain? This seems like a ridiculous reason for voting.

Do you really feel that lack of content (ie fluff) is a bad reason for scum reading somebody? Isn't that a large part of what scum have to do, make stuff up and look busy?

i didn't really like her response to my questions but i'm also not sure if she knows any better

Please refer to the pronoun under my avatar.

cakes' case is very shallow

I'll add on an agree to this.

Also

cakes' case is very shallow

yep

It was the 6th page when I made the vote. Were you expecting a large case? His ISO was like 10 posts at that point.

You're right, when you made the vote it was. However, you were asked to explain it well after then, and you didn't add much substance to it.

shhh its ok it seems ive been chosen to be the designated person far thinks is scum and tunnels all game long its ok ive accepted my fate
anyway i was kinda half serious too. this is town farside

Are you saying this purely based on her tunneling?

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

This is your second post, and it's practically a naked vote for me. Why do you feel I was a better vote than Wraith, who you also didn't address except for asking about Mr. Fluffy.

I didn't like him going after surface reasoning. His play just felt shallow overall, and I just didn't get the feeling that he was actually looking for scum.

So, you do realize I never actually said she was scum, it was just something I look out for? Also, if you want to ask anyone about me and semantics arguments you can ask Wisdom about Episode 1.

...snip....
I understand the scum reads on Wraith, but I was going to vote shaddowez until I realized I couldn't be the cool kid to start that wagon. So, I'm just gonna stick on Nacho for a while so you guys can question me about why it's there and when I'm going to change it because it's always fun when that happens.

You wouldn't have been the first person on the wagon...I believe there were already three votes on me. If I'm actually a scum read of yours, why wouldn't you vote me regardless of where on the wagon it was?

Okay let's take a look at shadow's short ISO
...snip....

I don't like semantic arguments. That's just me. Semantic arguments are a scumtell to me. That's probably because I strongly prefer VCA and logical/data-based arguments than attempting to analyze word choice or emotional expression. I think it's absolutely impossible to accurately analyze someone's emotional state over the internet.

See my comment above about my semantic arguments.

[shaddowez]

Town - farside, kraska, PV
Leantown - Tammy, Wisdom, Infinity, Nacho
Leanscum - Cakez, Kagami, Leon
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

(Details to come probably tomorrow, Mondays and meetings suck)

[Wisdom]

So, you do realize I never actually said she was scum, it was just something I look out for? Also, if you want to ask anyone about me and semantics arguments you can ask Wisdom about Episode 1.

^scum trying to defend through selfmeta

[shaddowez]

Yep, you caught me.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: shaddow

Wraith is probably the wrong one in my scumpile if anyone is

[Nachomamma8]

As I stated prior he said he had an issue with your post 10 which reads as a contradiction to saying he had a young lean early. I think prior to that you made maybe 2 other post. Which is just RVS stuff.

This makes sense if the point is that his read on Infinity didn't really make sense; the only reasons he pointed out for disliking Infinity happened on the first three pages while his later explanation of it was "I liked him early on and then started disliking him later".

I'm at the level of depression right now that I'm probably just going to prodge at best.

If you're town, this is the part of the show where you need to be rereading the thread and making some compelling arguments about why your scumreads are scum. You may not think you can improve on your existing stances (or may be unwilling to), but you're certainly capable of drawing some "if we assume <my_scumread> is scum, then <other_player> is likely scum because of the following interaction: ..." which you should have been thinking about anyway.

Alternatively, you can present a very compelling case about why you are town. While you weren't really my favorite lynch prior to this post, you are now. I remain very open-minded, though. Frankly, farside is probably the only player I really like for "highly probably town."

This seems like an overly harsh approach to "I'm depressed, prod dodging for now".

Do you really feel that lack of content (ie fluff) is a bad reason for scum reading somebody? Isn't that a large part of what scum have to do, make stuff up and look busy?

Context around that argument shows that the reason why I disliked his vote was more due to the fact that the fluff he pointed out wasn't actually fluff and the fact that it was a vote made while ignoring Wisdom's body of work. If you're going to vote me for fluff because I'm talking about this new kickass recipe I found the other day when my main body of work is a productive one, then we're going to have problems. If the attack was "he's not scumhunting" or "this looks like scumhunting", fine, but attacking because a small portion of posts aren't 100% relevant is not okay.

[Nachomamma8]

When you have time, interested in hearing where those read changes came from; also, your comment on #214 (I feel this would be detrimental to town if I said the reasons for kraska being town)... I have absolutely no idea what that could entail except for a PR hint and kraska hasn't hinted at any PR.

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: shaddow

Wraith is probably the wrong one in my scumpile if anyone is

This is about where I'm at.

Vote: Leonshade

[Wisdom]

VOTE: leon

[Kagami]

oo, are we going to get GI in the wraith slot?

[Infinity 324]

Shadow, your question to me was already addressed and answered.

I'm ok with shadow votes. His questions don't seem to be written in an attempt to gamesolve, they're more trying to look busy and defending himself. And to add on to the list of hypocritical things I've said this game, I don't really like shadow taking seriously tammy not moving her vote. To be fair, this time tammy clearly said that it was for fun. It just looks like an attempt to look busy.

Ok I've convinced myself

VOTE: shadow

I'm not a fan of voting someone with 3 posts on page 25, though I will check again what those posts are...

[Infinity 324]

And shadow can be lynchbait but this is not the town!shadow I know so that's that

[Infinity 324]

Ok they're 5 posts and I don't have an issue with them. Him making a small comment to defend himself before a big long scumhunting-focused catchup isn't a problem for me, as long as that's what's happening here.

[SirCakez]

As for cakez.....idk. the meta stuff on Wisdom is meh to me, mostly because he's not saying where this matches scum Wisdom.
I don't recall Wisdom being super aggressive at the start in Walking dead mafia, so it's kind of where I disagree with cakez view on wisdom's playstyle

In Walking Dead he was typically aggressive Wisdom?

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

Being aggressive doesn't mean that you're trying to roll over a town, it means that you're being active and you're pushing things stubbornly - in other words, all things that the people you noted are expected, meaning the most intuitive thing for Wisdom as scum is... to pretend like he's town. You're saying that being friendly somehow gives him an advantage when playing against stronger players even though he's expected is to be aggressive - what advantage is that, exactly?

The difference is he'll get pushback for his aggression against these players as compared to others, which is why friendly wisdom would be stronger for him as scum here.

If Wisdom showed even an ounce of interest in working with me then maybe I'd reconsider. But instead he's just being all stubborn which is

yet another trait ive always seen in wisdom and shouldnt be pretending is alignment indicative

Fixed that for you

I'm not scumreading you because of your stubborness (that's NAI), it's just not helping my read on you at all.

also

Off the top of my head, you, Tammy, Kagami, and Bulba are all players who the super aggressive tactic wouldn't work on as scum, so he's being forced to go the friendly route
Like Soccer Spirits was a playerlist he could roll over, but not here

This is a game that features scum-Wisdom vs Town-Nacho, Town-Tammy, Town-Kagami (and Town-farside as an extra). Check out what route I went.

I will look at that game.

Cakez: why is Wisdom's lack of aggression bothering you?
You were in Walking dead mafia and mollie and I discussed that issue, you said nothing about it but it bothers you this game.

See above

Spoiler:

A lot of this is old since a lot happened, but I'm going through everything.

to be clearer: Making a post without being over the top tryhard is not a playstyle adjustment, therefore arguing "yeah he wouldnt playstyle adjust so you dont have a point" is bullshit

i dont see how infinity was being "over the top tryhard" i think it was the opposite his posting emanates nervousness/wariness. but nyway ur point was he would have stopped probing people for answers to useless questions...which is still bs considering the timespan

I don't like "you can't possibly believe this you're scum" arguments, do you often find that you can find scum in that way?

Can you please explain what you mean by this? I don't see that type of argument from either of them, so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

Shadow's opening post looks motivated by "being safe." The initial part of his rule-of-three 147 is reasonable, but I don't like the wisdom bit and the final part also feels limp-wristed to me, as if the point were to mention an buddy in a negative light.

I also think the townreads on infinity aren't terribly well justified, and am suspicious that three players have it. I would guess that exactly one infinity-defender is scum regardless of his alignment.

What's the "rule-of-three"? Also, how do you feel I was being safe in my opening post?

shadow's play in the purge mafia came off as "playing safe" and he got scumread for it...im waiting for more content but i think shadow laying low and playing safe isnt particularly scummy for him

pedit: theres pere too i think

This post makes me hard townread kraska for reasons that I feel would be detrimental to town to say right now.

There's a difference between playing safe and having intent to play safe (especially in RVS).

I'm still not sure what you mean. How does any vote count as "playing safe" in RVS?

I don't like how much fluff this guy has

Explain? This seems like a ridiculous reason for voting.

Do you really feel that lack of content (ie fluff) is a bad reason for scum reading somebody? Isn't that a large part of what scum have to do, make stuff up and look busy?

i didn't really like her response to my questions but i'm also not sure if she knows any better

Please refer to the pronoun under my avatar.

cakes' case is very shallow

I'll add on an agree to this.

Also

cakes' case is very shallow

yep

It was the 6th page when I made the vote. Were you expecting a large case? His ISO was like 10 posts at that point.

You're right, when you made the vote it was. However, you were asked to explain it well after then, and you didn't add much substance to it.

shhh its ok it seems ive been chosen to be the designated person far thinks is scum and tunnels all game long its ok ive accepted my fate
anyway i was kinda half serious too. this is town farside

Are you saying this purely based on her tunneling?

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

This is your second post, and it's practically a naked vote for me. Why do you feel I was a better vote than Wraith, who you also didn't address except for asking about Mr. Fluffy.

I didn't like him going after surface reasoning. His play just felt shallow overall, and I just didn't get the feeling that he was actually looking for scum.

So, you do realize I never actually said she was scum, it was just something I look out for? Also, if you want to ask anyone about me and semantics arguments you can ask Wisdom about Episode 1.

...snip....
I understand the scum reads on Wraith, but I was going to vote shaddowez until I realized I couldn't be the cool kid to start that wagon. So, I'm just gonna stick on Nacho for a while so you guys can question me about why it's there and when I'm going to change it because it's always fun when that happens.

You wouldn't have been the first person on the wagon...I believe there were already three votes on me. If I'm actually a scum read of yours, why wouldn't you vote me regardless of where on the wagon it was?

Okay let's take a look at shadow's short ISO
...snip....

I don't like semantic arguments. That's just me. Semantic arguments are a scumtell to me. That's probably because I strongly prefer VCA and logical/data-based arguments than attempting to analyze word choice or emotional expression. I think it's absolutely impossible to accurately analyze someone's emotional state over the internet.

See my comment above about my semantic arguments.

This wall reads like scum 101 to me. Full of pointless comments just to look like "content"

[Wisdom]

This wall reads like scum 101 to me. Full of pointless comments just to look like "content"

now you're on a better path

any comments on Leon?

[SirCakez]

I skimmed through and you were indeed aggressive as scum vs a similar playerlist there
So yeah not as confident anymore <.<

P-edit: I thought I mentioned it earlier, he's a scumread. His posts on the last page did nothing to change that.

[Wisdom]

good. join us on Leon. Or shaddow really. I could lynch either.

[SirCakez]

>.<
VOTE: leon

[Infinity 324]

Vote shadow instead

[SirCakez]

The wagon is bigger on leon
If the Shadow wagon gets bigger I'll go there instead, I want them both gone

[Wisdom]

Vote shadow instead

do you dislike the wagon on leon?

[Infinity 324]

Vote shadow instead

do you dislike the wagon on leon?

It's meh, there's really nothing AI from him so far

I want more pressure on shadow

[Wisdom]

you find his latest posts not AI?

I found them needlessly defensive