Micro 661 | Scumteam UnPick - Pressure Done

[Secret Agent Jin]

I still dont understand how this voting system works, do we vote for who we dont want to get lynched? In that case

VOTE: Jin

[Secret Agent Jin]

I still dont understand how this voting system works, do we vote for who we dont want to get lynched? In that case

VOTE: Jin

What? You vote the players you want to lynch. Night 1 doesn't exist. After the day1 ends, the day2 will auto start.

Didn't you choose Scumteam Unpick. You got into the game without understanding rules? Are you serious ?

That was a joke RVS vote so that i could get this game on my post list.

[Secret Agent Jin]

There is one thing i am confused about. What exactly would posting our picks confirm? What would they tell us that would advance the game?

[Secret Agent Jin]

I am for posting the picks then but wouldn't scum just lie about their posts to hide their teammate?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Ill post my pairs so that the chart can be updated.

Pick 1: Gamma+Arc Angel
Pick 2: Prohawk+Jaack

[Secret Agent Jin]

I've never played with any of you so my picks were "chosen" randomly. Did some of you really chose teams based on other factors and if yes what motivated your choices. No need to answer if you used random.

My Gamma and Arc pick was deliberate because i have played with them before and i wouldn't like a team made from those two. My ProHawk and Jaack pick was totally random.

[Secret Agent Jin]

What's your problem with scum!me?

Take it as a compliment

[Secret Agent Jin]

I need Jaack to be in all my games from now on. Anyways, say those three people (myself included) are lynched, that leaves three groups which have your name in one of them. IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups. Also, from my PoV it is easy to check off my name across the board which A) Still leaves the same amount of possibilities but i dont die and B) Saves a day lynch which we can use on someone else. I understand that it isn't going to happen as it doesnt help anything if my alignment is assumed and not public knowledge but it stops a mislynch. As far as i know there could be a scum within the other two proposed lynches but if i am lynched first then we start off with a mislynch D1.

[Secret Agent Jin]

IF you are scum then you are doing a good job of playing it out in public but i am convinced that you arent and that to me leaves only two groups.

Why?

Why am i convinced he is town? I am basing that off of myself. If i was scum i wouldnt put myself out in public by making a chart and actively calculating the possible scumteams, i would let someone else make the chart and put themselves out there. If he is scum then he is doing an oscar worthy portrayal of a town member.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Jin
Since you've played with Arc before what do you think of her confusion?

I think that it was genuine, i was also a bit confused on the subject too. I will say that i think it has been explained thoroughly and i think has enough information to clear the confusion. One think peaked my interest though. She said "why would you join a game you dont understand the rules of" which was to me about a different subject but it still applies to her situation.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Both ArcAngel and Jin had less than stellar RVS votes, but I didn't really like how Jin walked his back after being called out on it.

You are aware that A) My RVS vote was on myself and still is and B) I didnt walk anything back and i wasnt called out on anything. Jaacks whole post is weirdly defensive, or just plain weird.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Jaack

[Secret Agent Jin]

Calling your self vote a joke in 12 looks like you're walking back to me.

And the fact that you kept your self vote doesn't do you any favors.

What else would it be if not a joke? Was the other votes against the host not jokes? I kept my self vote because it wasnt hurting anything and at the time i didnt have a better place to put the vote.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You are getting all of that off of a joke vote that i placed "so i can put the game on my list"? You either have amazing superhuman reading skills or you are making things up out of nothing. I said i didnt scumread you (null to town) and the actual read was on the null side since we dont have much info to go off of. The minute you voted me for a NAI joke vote i knew something was off.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I know sarcasm is hard to express without voice or visual clues but i assure you that it was sarcasm when i wrote that he must have superhuman reading skills. Its obvious that he is fabricating things based on his biased view toward what is an RVS vote. How is my vote against myself AI? How does anyone look at Zaack's "case" against me prove anything i did was scum? If i gain enough votes today and get lynched please take my town flip as a reason to lynch Zaack.

[Secret Agent Jin]

How does anyone look at Zaack's "case" against me and say it prove anything i did was scum?

EBWOP

[Secret Agent Jin]

Right but i worded it that way because i dont think something would ask me why i think he is a null read. Again, if someone is convinced i am scummy or a good enough place to put a vote then i will say that they are welcome to but it would be both a mislynch and a horrible choice. I have come to understand that i, in some ways, come off as scummy since i deal with a high volume of attention. All i can say for now is that either town or scum i tend to play this game a bit slimy/scummy. I havent done anything that is AI of scum and you certainly wont find any scumslips since i have to be scum to slip in that direction.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I have come to understand that i, in some ways, come off as scummy since i deal with a high volume of attention.

Let me elaborate on this sentence i said before anyone takes it wrong. I meant that from the first game i had ever played of mafia/werewolf, i have noticed that people show me a lot of (mostly bad) attention for my gameplay. Over the years, that has made me aware that i play a pretty scummy game no matter my alignment, hence the warning in the previous post.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You can feel whatever way you want

Z

Jaack but it doesn't change my alignment. You may feel that a townie should act one way when voted on but i tend to react the way i did. I cant reason with you as there is no way to prove my alignment this early on and with little information from posts. If you bring new AI information to the table i will continue with you until then I am done with this back and forth.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Fine, my vote against Jaack was 100% a reaction to his vote against me. I dont agree with his vote being placed on me because some chart tells him to. Find reasons to vote me or someone else, dont vote me because a chart says that i have a large amount of possible scumteam combinations left. Say everyone went with your chart and voted me, now you have a mislynch when i flip town, a wasted day phase, and one less town member which puts you closer to losing. I will unvote Jaack but i swear if he turns out to be scum, i will be upset at you all.

UNVOTE:

[Secret Agent Jin]

See it however you want to see it ProHawk, i was appealing to logic and not emotion with that post. You dont just look at a sheet and aya someone is capable of being scum, you look at their reasonings, their posts, and their reactions and you build a case on them. I could easily go "Look at Arc, she has 5 possible scum combos available" but that doesnt prove she is scum. You all have your opinions no matter what i do. All i can say is i assessed what i was doing, which was reacting based on a vote on me, and i backed off before it blew up. If you think i am scum then vote me and when i am lynched ill flip town or you could back off of me and look at other possible scum.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@Tenshii I am curious about your other reads on players, you seem to word your reads well and i like the outlook you have when approaching reads.

It would be nice to see more activity from people, i think after the chart was made the conversations for most fizzled out. What are people thinking concerning the three players that Jaack said would be a good starting place.

@ProHawk That wasnt emotional or fear-mongering, that post was me stating that i WOULD flip town and it would be a wasted day phase. Its facts, nothing emotional about it. If Jaack flipped scum later, i would be upset. Wouldnt any town be upset at the fact that they had a scumread on scum and they got lynched instead of the scum?

[Secret Agent Jin]

If you think i am scum then vote me and when i am lynched ill flip town or you could back off of me and look at other possible scum.

That's the thing.... who are other possible scum Jin?

Jaack, You, anyone really. All i can do is look at the game through the knowledge i have which is my VT slot. No one is confirmed anything to me except myself.

[Secret Agent Jin]

@ProHawk First of all i never said i dont have scumreads, its just too early to have well defined scum reads. Also my comment about wanting Jaack in all my games was due to the fact that he made a chart and updated it regularly. That is a good thing to do in this setup and i liked that he was staying on top of getting information. I would have said that about anyone that did the chart and was engaging people, it wasnt about buddying. If i was buddying him i wouldnt have turned around and fought against him.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Gamma, if she slipped then wouldnt that implement me as she assumes that the alleged team is her and I? It may be a crappy attempt to link herself to me since if she flips scum then this post may be pointed to and i get lynched taking a town with her. I am not with her so i dont know why she pinned us together.

[Secret Agent Jin]

I did read Jaack as a scum lean for his vote on me and his reasoning for it but since he others have explained that it may have been a mixup i backed off so i wouldnt be focused on just him and could look at others.

Town Lean: ZZZX, Tenshii
Null: ArcAngel9, Gamma Emerald, Dunhallym
Scum Lean: ProHawk, Jaack

For my scum lean it is for Jaacks attention towards myself and a feeling about the way ProHawk went after me for being defensive towards Jaack, like he took it personal about the things i said. Both reads are easily changed since their really isnt anything to base my reads off except RVS, Chart Phase, and my perspective per my role PM.

[Secret Agent Jin]

How does voting Jaack prevent you from looking at others? I was focused on my back and forth with Jaack and replying to his posts which stopped me from ISOing people and carrying on conversations with other people.

I could get it if he was at l-1 but is not the case so why remove vote if you still suspect him and have no better place to put it? I backed my vote off so the back and forth would stop and de-escalate before it went over the top.

Also can you explain to me your town lean on ZZZX ? He also helped a lot with the chart and hasnt said anything remotely scummy in my opinion.

[Secret Agent Jin]

If i was scum Jaack, why would i panic and when one vote was on me?

[Secret Agent Jin]

Thats a very horrible way to look at a reaction. Me instantly telling you it is a bad idea to lynch me when one vote is on me is NAI. There is literally no reason for scum to panic at one vote.

[Secret Agent Jin]

OK, so Jin. I'll make the short version now. If you want a full case with quotes and the like I won't have time tonight and to be honest I can't guarantee that I'll have time to do it before day end.
Basically my problem with Jin can boil down to two points.
1) His reaction to Jaack’s vote, and in particular the fact he denied his initial townread on Jaack.
2) His reaction to Jaack’s plan and lack of subsequent scumhunting. His initial reaction to Jaack’s plan is not clear. The comment on Jaack’s innocence and the rest of post 80 makes it look like he found the plan good, but he never really said so either. He later complains that Jaack is voting solely because of statistics, which I think is false. I’m not a fan of Jaack’s plan, and I’ve expressed why earlier on. But I also think that the best way to show you’re town is to find the real scum. And I think that so far Jin has done nothing to that purpose.
Now, Jin has made a couple posts that I really dislike. Prohawk already mentioned his AtE. I fully agree with that and I hate the vote removal from Jaack in the same post. If he really thinks Jaack is scum then why remove vote?
Last thing: if you look at Jin’s scum/town list: his scumleans are people who are voting for him. His townleans are people whoe are defending him. His nulls are the rest. If he was a newb, I'd think that he may be biased as I have made the same mistake of trusting people who defended me and distrusting people who accused me but here it makes me seriously doubt the reality of those reads.

To sum up my thoughts: I originally disliked Jaack's plan but Jin and Arc are my main suspects at the moment, with ZZZX as a runnerup.

1) I never townread Jaack, everybody thinks i did but all i said was that i didnt scumread him. That can be anywhere from a Null read to a Town read. After some posts by him my viewpoint changed and i began to read him as a scumlean.
2) You are entitled to your own opinions but, like i have explained before, the AtE was not an AtE and you will know if i ever post an AtE because it wont just be "im town, you are mislynching". That is a preemptive warning that you are wasting time on me. I also explained my vote removal on Jaack. I noticed the signs of myself getting ready to spend all D1 tunneling on Jaack and i stopped it so that i could resume the game normally.
Last Thing: I townread the people defending me because if i am town and someone defends me that tells me they arent scum. If there is a scum player and a townie is getting looked at as scum doesn't it make sense to let the townie get heat and become the lynchee instead of defending them? A scum player would just let a townie get the flak and stay neutral on the subject, Defending them is stupid. What are you saying concerning my townreads? That if my role was scum that my townreads are scum too? Are you saying that i am townreading people that defend me so they will give me town points? Do you think i am that stupid? If i was scum i would treat them normally. I would call my scum partners out on their BS and question them as i do others. I wouldnt buss ny partners or townread them for no reason.

[Secret Agent Jin]

You don't seem to understand whiteknighting.

I understand whiteknighting but its usually one on one and what is being said about me is the oppisite of whiteknighting.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Im sick of being asked the same questions 4 times but worded differently. No, i dont townread Jaack for the 10th time, i worded it weird, are we going to have another 4 pages of discussion about how i read someone? You know what? Something just clicked and it all became clear to me. I did a few missteps and Duhn jumped on me and kept going with the same questions. I was very much ready to boil over and become so mad. I took a breath and it hit me that, its exactly what Duhn wants, she wants me to yell and scream and draw negetive attention to myself. She is pushing me until i get myself lynched. How do i prove that i am not scum? Its hard for a VT since they dont have powers that they can point to and use. All a VT has is words and Scum!Duhn wants me to falter and get lynched. I think i am going to simply continue on and ignore her attempts.