Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Titus]

VOTE: Lapsa

Do you have a problem with Masons?

Hey Sonia. *waves*

[Titus]

Well then, i got a problem with you Lapsa

[Titus]

I am the queen of moon logic, which is a giant magnet. Good luck.

*tackle hugs Sonia*

[Titus]

Pine, cut down the assholia. It will cause me not to laugh at anything you say.

[Titus]

You can be my kitty if I can hug Sonia.

[Titus]

No. You're BFFs with Death. Elbrin Cabd Sonia Alisa and Pine are all my BFFs

[Titus]

@Titus is that the name of your husband?

I will not divulge my Husband's name.

[Titus]

My BFFs are my townreads.

[Titus]

Titus why do you think Gamma is not a BFF?

He's null. Too early.

[Titus]

This is the most townread I have ever been in RVS. Feels wierd.

Did the mod make me an innocent child when I wasn't looking?

[Titus]

Unfairy?

[Titus]

Hello Titus.

VOTE: Elbrin

Regardless of time of game, if you're going to be serious and call someone town, have a reason.

You're scum.

No reason.

[Titus]

Lapsa is also scum and its a mock.

[Titus]

sonia titus elbirn pine are all looking bad atm, i like uzi, lap and another guy i forgot

I know ur role.

Vi.

[Titus]

Join the Elbirn wagon?

U can has ball of yarn?

But I like chocolate and your wagon is ugly.

[Titus]

Oh btw if anyone wants to power wagon aj over this guy hmu

I'll just be at work

I could totes do AJ. The vote on elbrin was bad, not a bus.

[Titus]

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)

Wagon of win, best wagon

Ftfy

[Titus]

My BFFs are my townreads.

Yeah, don't know where you're getting BFFs could mean scum.

And you're voting the vi.

[Titus]

There isnt a singel game when i didnt get called village idiot, thats until my first death tunnel flip

Then you're doing something wrong.

[Titus]

(Pine Alisae SSBM Lapsa) townreads I'm happy with.

We've got hangups on Lapsa.

We got two cws to him in addition to him autoobjecting to your mason claim.

[Titus]

(Pine Alisae SSBM Lapsa) townreads I'm happy with.

We've got hangups on Lapsa.

We got two cws to him in addition to him autoobjecting to your mason claim.

Did you change pronouns? Or who is "we"?

We is you and I. I am objecting to your townread.

[Titus]

Well, feels like my vote is in the right place. I do agree with the town read on Alisae though and I'm sure a quick meta dive can confirm how she's been described for those who do TR her. I also like when she posts more seriously, it's attractive. Her questions and reads feel like they're coming from town.

Yeah, nah. You don't get to keep your rvs vote on me, not explain why, and then instead of talking about why you think I'm scum go off on a tangent about alisae instead. Tell the good people of this thread why I'm scum

Square up, you bout to catch these blessed hands

Gladiate: Lil Uzi Vert

Agree with Elibirn. Answer his questions Lil Uzi. It's only fair.

Ewwww politician posting.

[Titus]

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

[Titus]

Okay I'm going to walk Titus (and others wondering about my Lapsa read) through the logic here. I'm inserting what I'd be thinking/doing in his shoes:


Assume on of the four possibilities are true:

A: Lapsa is town and took my claim at face value
B: Lapsa is town and did not believe my claim
C: Lapsa is scum and took my claim at face value
D: Lapsa is scum and recognized it as fake immediately

In case (A): Lapsa took my claim at face value but had reason to doubt it. He immediately presses me on the finer details of it when I retract; thinking it was scum-motivated. (For example, I could be scum with a worthless role who wanted to try and draw out a counter claim and out real masons)

In case (B): Lapsa recognized my claim as an obvious falsehood but let the situation with pine play out first. He then continued to press me over it, with similar reasoning as above.

In case (C): Lapsa is scum and took my claim as a genuine mason claim. He then for some reason decised to immediately vote me anyways and press me hard on that claim; instead of celebrating that an idiot just outed a major town PR.

In case (D): Lapsa realized i'm fake claiming but immediately presses me on it instead of letting it foster on the hopes that an actual town mason pair counter-claims me; therefore killing the chance of scum getting a free out.


I find C and D to not make nearly as mkuch sense as A or B; hence the townread.

Possibilities A and B do not make sense with the post chain.

Spoiler: Post Chain

Hi guys ~f

I'm masons with Penguin_Alien btw.

We use masons as day one confirmed innocents to ensure a town-led lynch now. It's the new hip thing.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

Genesis 1:3

VOTE: Cabd

FYI: Cabd is scum.

He's immediately shading, not investigating for nuances before or after the claim. He looks to be feeling out whether or not you or PA can ever be mislynched.

[Titus]

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

Uzi

Then why are you treating Uzi with kid gloves?

[Titus]

Thing is scum-Lapsa has more to gain by letting it sit instead of antagonizing me about it; on the off chance an actual town PR counters/setupspecs.
I will agree that there's a scenario where scum-lapsa doesn't think that through and sees an easy method of attack not realizing the implications, yes.

Yeah, one thing beeboy taught me is scum do not like mason claims. If they let them sit, it's bad and forces their hand. We may have to agree to disagree for now, since I don't think your Lapsa defense comes from a dark place.

Thoughts on Lannister and Uzi?

[Titus]

(Pine Alisae SSBM Lapsa) townreads I'm happy with.

We've got hangups on Lapsa.

We got two cws to him in addition to him autoobjecting to your mason claim.

Mason claim was a yolk btw, you did see that later on right? Lapsa, do you really dislike Masons? If so, why?

Doesn't matter. Scum pressure on mason claims.

I actually like mason claims in the open. I wind up scumreading them too often.

[Titus]

The dark energy, it spreads...

[Titus]

And why are you supposing it is real?

The dark force rises...and i like cats.

[Titus]

Gladiator is a real role. It's near RVS. Supposing Elbrin's a selfish dick that ruins d1 is a little off. Like you're supposing everything he says is honest...

[Titus]

I noticed, but assumed it was fake to get reactions.

Alisa, you're sidestepping my concern. Why did you automatically suppose Elbrin was honest before?

[Titus]

This doesn't feel right.

[Titus]

I am rather surprised.

Like I feel Uzi, Lannister and Alisae might all be scum, but this feels wrong in my core. It shouldn't but it does...

[Titus]

Why would it make you concerned? Why not react with that concern immediately? Why wait until after I question you?

[Titus]

Titus why do you think Tywin is scum?

"It's only fair" does NOT seem like a scumhunty arms length comment

[Titus]

I do have to admit, the gladiate, if real, neuters my vca too...

[Titus]

Well there goes the most extreme of my moonlogic theories

[Titus]

Titus why do you think Tywin is scum?

"It's only fair" does NOT seem like a scumhunty arms length comment

I didn't really see the problem with it. Null comment for me based on meta.

3 2 1

Meta


Farts

[Titus]

Now, why are you poking mama?

[Titus]

It makes me concerned because it seems so early to be using it off of something that I feel is not very big. Yes, he is avoiding the question, but Eblrin overeacted to that. And that makes me concerned.
I didn't react to it right away because I didn't know what to make of it. And I didn't know what to make of it because a Gladiator is something I have never seen before. So I was caught off-guard.

BTW you're making me think you're town. Thats a good thing. Mew.

Again, there was no question. Your paranoia did give me a good laugh though.

I thought Titus was acting me a question about this ;~;

I was

[Titus]

I might just need to get drunk...

Cloud, no thoughts on the last few pages?

[Titus]

ssbn, what do you think of Lannister and Alisae?

[Titus]

Titus why do you think Tywin is scum?

Titus why do you think Tywin is scum?

"It's only fair" does NOT seem like a scumhunty arms length comment

VOTE: Alisae

[Titus]

Not only did I answer why I thought Tywin was scummy, I even quoted the posts.

Now you come back and repeat the same question. Then you lie about me answering, when I just quoted it for you. Cmon. Are you even trying to sort me?

[Titus]

Transcend, am I crazy this game?

[Titus]

You think her last posting looks good?

[Titus]

All she's doing is asking "What do you think?" She persists even when she asked just 30 posts before.

So I am going to need a bit more than looks town.

[Titus]

Elbrin, what were you attempting to accomplish with the fake gladiate?

Stirring the pot. More than establishing that "yeah I scumread this fool", I like to see how people respond. I was gonna be nice actually and reveal that it was fake and save everyone some grief, cuz no one even noticed or cared and everyone knew it was fake, including uzi? But then you seemed convinced/concerned it was real so I kept playing at it.

I'll need to go reread all of that mess to see what I think about it. Protip I do this in like every game on day 1.

show that he actually scumread uzi and whatnot

Could be distancing, don't think such an assumption is correct here yet. Looking at the two together in ISO it's weird the way LUV just ignored it the whole way through, because even though the gladiator claim was fake, the concerns Elbirn raised about the reason LUV was keeping his vote on him were valid, but LUV doesn't respond in a way that should satisfy town!Elbirn if he is actually SRing LUV. This is more AI of Elbirn than LUV though

...Show me where I gave any indication of being satisfied.

The abruptness with which you lose interest in pushing LUV after he fails to produce a better reason than "I think it's pretty obvious why you're being scum read but if it wasn't, please refer to Sonia's 85" is what makes me think there isn't real suspicion of LUV coming from you. You just say you're underwhelmed and call his next reason a "classic meme" but don't actually push back. I feel like if you were really so suspicious of him you would call his reason for keeping his vote on you weak or scummy

ssbn doesn't feel like town like he did in the other game we played but maybe cause I was scum in that game and it was easy to tell
gut sr though.

Is MariaR your alt? I only have one completed game on site and only one of the scum from that game was female. I think you have me confused with someone else.

Yeah Elbrin hasn't lost interest in pursuing LUV.

[Titus]

Elbrin, my bad habits are coming back. Hold me back.

[Titus]

I never said Gladiator was normal, only that it was real. You said I never asked you questions, but I did.

You attempt to argue that by pushing you that I am chainsawing Uzi, and that too misrepresents my intentions.

I don't need to ask you questions to sort you. Your "progression" speaks for itself. You're stating an angle and trying to fabricate things to support it.

You want a 1 v 1?

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

[Titus]

Why did you ignore me correcting your misrepresentation on you alleging I said Gladiator was normal, when I only said Gladiator is a real role?

[Titus]

Also Titus is ignoring the fuck out of me like she does as scum.

@Titus Nero has been quite convincing

When Nero says something rather than just voting me, I will. Rather, his vote is RVS and drama at best.

[Titus]

Since it's come up again I'll actually quote the wiki and link the page if you guys want to verify
"Mechanical changes which must be announced beforehand include:
Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand."
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

We don't know if Mafia have an encryptor or not so we don't know if there's daytalk because the mod did not announce it. The mod is obligated to announce if there will be daytalk

without

an encryptor in a Normal Game.

Oh this changed since last time I played normals.

FWIW Cephrir does come fro the school of mods who used to enjoy daytalk; not sure if it's still the case but I'd call it more likely than not.

You should look that over. A lot has changed.

@SSK, Drawing names out of a hat and voting me is a random vote. Stretching to say otherwise is not a good look. It's what my moon logic expected though.

[Titus]

At this point, I'm happy with a lynch on Tywin. Because pressure is on him, he feels as if he is obligated to go through everything. One example is why I thought Titus was scum. He thought I was responding to him because I had a post of his quoted in that post (which is not the case btw).

Also, Tywin is pushing Titus while giving Sonia a scum read seems off to me. I feel like at that moment, Sonia would have been a lot easier to push at the moment, but Tywin isn't pushing Sonia. So if Tywin is scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sonia scum with Tywin.

This line is shit.
Tywin isn't really that scummy just had a bad post he does seem like he's trying to figure the game out while you're just casting shade at wagons with fluff
the light shade toss to me is cute though.

Tywin outright lied about things twice in the thread. I don't get how you're saying he's trying to figure things out.

[Titus]

Lapsa, Pine, SSBM, Alisae.

Do you have any objections to the other three names next to you?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Pine and Alisae. I understand why you've put Pine there but don't agree with it yet. Won't judge him until I see some more but he looks okay enough so far.
Alisae ended up on the wrong wagon at the wrong time so she's on my list now. Pine being the first vote and it being a page 1 vote make me think his vote is not the scummy one on that wagon.

@SSK, Drawing names out of a hat and voting me is a random vote. Stretching to say otherwise is not a good look. It's what my moon logic expected though.

I think that's a misrep of what happened but I'll wait on NC's catch-up to go further with this, maybe that was all his vote was. It didn't look that way to me though.

If he has something to say, I will look it over. Seems like you and Lapsa are trying to fuel Nero drama to distract me and others from Tywin.

[Titus]

At this point, I'm happy with a lynch on Tywin. Because pressure is on him, he feels as if he is obligated to go through everything. One example is why I thought Titus was scum. He thought I was responding to him because I had a post of his quoted in that post (which is not the case btw).

Also, Tywin is pushing Titus while giving Sonia a scum read seems off to me. I feel like at that moment, Sonia would have been a lot easier to push at the moment, but Tywin isn't pushing Sonia. So if Tywin is scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sonia scum with Tywin.

This line is shit.
Tywin isn't really that scummy just had a bad post he does seem like he's trying to figure the game out while you're just casting shade at wagons with fluff
the light shade toss to me is cute though.

Tywin outright lied about things twice in the thread. I don't get how you're saying he's trying to figure things out.

What were the lies

1) That I never asked him anything.
2) That I claimed Gladiator was normal when I only said it was real.

[Titus]

@mod whats the point even to have encryptor if mafia still have day talk without it, 2 encryptors?

Mod cannot answer that as phrased.

I will jump in. Mods can make encryptor a role or feature of the scumteam depending on balance.

[Titus]

At this point, I'm happy with a lynch on Tywin. Because pressure is on him, he feels as if he is obligated to go through everything. One example is why I thought Titus was scum. He thought I was responding to him because I had a post of his quoted in that post (which is not the case btw).

Also, Tywin is pushing Titus while giving Sonia a scum read seems off to me. I feel like at that moment, Sonia would have been a lot easier to push at the moment, but Tywin isn't pushing Sonia. So if Tywin is scum, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sonia scum with Tywin.

This line is shit.
Tywin isn't really that scummy just had a bad post he does seem like he's trying to figure the game out while you're just casting shade at wagons with fluff
the light shade toss to me is cute though.

Tywin outright lied about things twice in the thread. I don't get how you're saying he's trying to figure things out.

What were the lies

1) That I never asked him anything.
2) That I claimed Gladiator was normal when I only said it was real.

Do you really think that a wall posting player like tywin would only use something as nai as gladiator talk to push on you, i dont

I have never played with Tywin before, but challenging me to a fight based on false information and doubling down when caught on it is what scum do, not town.

[Titus]

Yes titus i understand the day talk part of the scumteam thing, i just dont understand why would they have day talk, withouth the need of encryptor, with an encryptor in the game

Why are you so sure there is one?

[Titus]

Why do you tr me Titus?

Can I have some quotes

Nope. Not yet.

Right now, you just feel town. I don't think you'd approach me this way if you were scum.

[Titus]

Gamma could be scum. As of p5, seem to be a lot of info w/out analysis.

Could be town catching up. Can we slow down to accomodate?

[Titus]

Why do you tr me Titus?

Can I have some quotes

Nope. Not yet.

Right now, you just feel town. I don't think you'd approach me this way if you were scum.

You mean overly friendly? That's offensive

True, but scum tend to want me to fumble my words or start drama fights.

[Titus]

Cloud, I like the reachout, but I find meta arguments unpersuasive.

[Titus]

VOTE: aj

Good vote.

[Titus]

Titus its because you dont know the extensive shared game experience we have, i also tr her for tone, shes a goddam pussy when shes scum btw

Nah, I just hate meta.

[Titus]

Also titus, from mafiascum experience, do i have the right to ask your read about my encryptors posts or should i just avoid it?

You always have the right to ask about reads. You don't ask about roles here.

I have been hard townreading you for awhile now.

[Titus]

Cabd, I am at Lapsa AJ TL as stronger scumreads. Alisae uneases me, same with Uzi. Gamma might be scum.

Cloudkicker solid town. Pine and Sonia lean town. Nero is likely town, not by his content, but by the posturing in thread. Mozamis weak town. Nostramus, gun to head town.

Be my soundingboard? Cloud, please chime in too.

Peace out until tonight.

[Titus]

That invalidates THAT theory.


Sigh.

Ok, now I am curious. What theory did you have?

[Titus]

Talking about the specifics right this second would be anti-town. I'll talk about it much later.

I intend to hold you to this.

[Titus]

Cabd, I am at Lapsa AJ TL as stronger scumreads. Alisae uneases me, same with Uzi. Gamma might be scum.

Cloudkicker solid town. Pine and Sonia lean town. Nero is likely town, not by his content, but by the posturing in thread. Mozamis weak town. Nostramus, gun to head town.

Be my soundingboard? Cloud, please chime in too.

Peace out until tonight.

Honestly, im not too sure how to take your read on me, hence why i havent addressed any where you said you tred me. I think sonia is town, i agree with mozamis too and nos but thats about it

I have. Village idiot read means you're town.

[Titus]

Yeah, gun to my head is very very weak. Just the spamming comment seemed designed to draw attention. Is it solid? No, but it's there.

[Titus]

Lapsa confirmed jester

Hello Titus.

VOTE: Elbrin

Regardless of time of game, if you're going to be serious and call someone town, have a reason.

Yeah Transcend nice try grudge matching.

Played with Titus before?

Yes I have, at least twice.

This is the entirety of AJ's ISO.

He's defending Lapsa as a jester.
He's chainsawing you on behalf of Uzi and attacking reasonless posting. He has zero followthrough on my mock of him for that. Why does he pick your naked vote in particular? He also insists all votes need reasoning and follows up with zero.
Picks a fight with obvtown Transcend.
Makes a meta comment.

There's no sorting or attempt to here.

[Titus]

Oh hey Titus did you know that meta comment he made was a question that was clearly aimed for CloudKicker and not him? Lolerz.

Meta... FARTS but Garciaing isn't cool regardless.

Cloudkicker and I have not finished any games.

[Titus]

i dont know what that is btw

It means I hear farts when someone argues meta.

[Titus]

Apparently getting traction on Gamma isn't possible right now. He's got the flimsiest shit steps in and step outs in the game.

{Pine, Mozamis, Alisae} <--line of "not touching today without a damn good reason"
{Lapsa, SSBM}
{Elbirn, Tywin}
{Titus}
{everyone else} <--Line of Neutrality
{Uzi}
{AJ}
{Gamma} <--Line of "voting for without hesitation"

Why is Gamma shittier than Uzi/AJ or Tywin. I do not see how you have some of my scumreads so high. Lapsa we discussed, but Tywin and Alisae town? Really?

You have Gamma worse than lying?

[Titus]

You and I have very different definitions of a lair, Titus. Can you lay out why exactly you feel Tywin should be a major scum read of mine? As for Alisae; not discussing it right now; you don't see it.

Anyone who makes up what I said and when confronted with evidence it's not true doesn't back down.

VOTE: AJ

[Titus]

Spoiler: Reference Posts

Well, feels like my vote is in the right place. I do agree with the town read on Alisae though and I'm sure a quick meta dive can confirm how she's been described for those who do TR her. I also like when she posts more seriously, it's attractive. Her questions and reads feel like they're coming from town.

Yeah, nah. You don't get to keep your rvs vote on me, not explain why, and then instead of talking about why you think I'm scum go off on a tangent about alisae instead. Tell the good people of this thread why I'm scum

Square up, you bout to catch these blessed hands

Gladiate: Lil Uzi Vert

Agree with Elibirn. Answer his questions Lil Uzi. It's only fair.

Ewwww politician posting.

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

Uzi

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

Uzi

Then why are you treating Uzi with kid gloves?

Twin, gun to your head.

Lynch Elbrin or Uzi.
Cabd or Uzi.

Uzi

Then why are you treating Uzi with kid gloves?

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I'll let him answer. I've missed questions before as town (missed yours a few times last game), so it's entirely possible he missed them. I don't think he can miss it now, so next post or two from him should give a better read.

Gladiator is a real role. It's near RVS. Supposing Elbrin's a selfish dick that ruins d1 is a little off. Like you're supposing everything he says is honest...

Okay, so I caught up with my morning coffee.

So for things related to me seem to be this:

1. Titus calls me scum for no reason, then votes Alisae instead. Well, to be fair, her reading was my 'it's only fair' statement, but it's probably one of the most atrocious over-reaches I've ever seen. It's that bad. That was the only reason given by Titus, and it seems the three buddied females have jumped on that reasoning as being amazing, because after that:

2. Alisae starts questioning me/thinking I'm scum after being obviously led by Titus. My favorite post was 390 by far. Apparently, la that Alisae has thought about it, I really haven't done anything except 'thinking Lapsa and Cloud is scum, and that Kyou, Nero, and me are town.' Oh, is that all? Lol. Even if that was all I did this game, it would be more than Titus or Sonia have done. Speaking of the third member in this girl buddy band...

3. Sonia pops up out of nowhere, sheep's Titus by calling me scum, and her reason is also sheeped by giving her reason as my 'it's only fair' statement. Zero originality there. That's some blatant sheeping going on.

All of these three have this in common with ONE outlier: who has asked questions out of all of them? Only Alisae. Titus and Sonia both threw shade on me, and they even asked others to weigh in on me and Alisae (who I TR pretty strongly), yet zero questions have come from her. Titus hasn't asked me anything. She hasn't tried sorting me whatsoever. The same goes with Sonia. She has thrown shade on multiple players, yet she hasn't even once tried sorting a single person. No questions have been asked whatsoever. Titus at least has the ability to lead sheep. Sonia has done zero scum hunting whatsoever and everything she does seems to sheep someone else.

Titus: why haven't you asked me a single question? Why do you continue to ask others to comment on me while you refuse to sort me directly yourself? Are you hoping a wagon forms on me that you can hop on, otherwise why haven't you voted me if you think I'm scum? Why vote Alisae for asking you to explain yourself when throwing shade on me? Do you truly believe my lil Uzi 'it's only fair' comment is a scum tell? I sure as hell don't believe that. It's weak and contrived. We both know that already though.

Sonia: why haven't you asked me any questions? Also, why did you sheep Titus exactly to the T? Do you have no original thought? I find that sheep on atrocious reasonings are almost always scum. What do you think? Also, when ssbm_Kyouko pointed out your blatant buddying with Titus in post #400, you came back in #407 calling him 'not town' for no reason. It was another OMGUS shade throw with zero follow through. You haven't followed any lead or anything you claim to be scummy with any actual questions whatsoever. Also, you claim my post #303 is 'scummy as fuck.' Please explain what in it is scummy. You said it was overly defensive and manipulative. What was I defensive about? Who was I defending against? How does that make any sense whatsoever? I joined in with Elibirn to get Uzi to answer why he thought Elibirn was scum. He never gave a good reason, but regardless, what was there for me to be defensive about? I wasn't being attacked, so why call it defensive? Also, how was it manipulative in a scummy way? Do you know what 'scummy' even is, or only when you're town and not using contrived reasoning to throw shade on players? Why are you chainsaw defending Uzi here? You AND Titus both highly dislike Uzi being questioned. Both of you have attacked me now over me forcing Uzi to answer a basic question. Neither of you seem to have any real questions for me though. Now THAT is 'scummy as fuck' (to quote your own words).

So with all that being said, that puts Titus/Sonia firmly in my scum pool, and Alisae goes in as strong town. Only Alisae has even tried to scum hunt this game. Titus/Sonia can only throw shade using terrible reasoning, while asking zero questions or even pretending to scum hunt. Sonia looks more like the sheep with no originality, while Titus is the Shepard of these misfits. I find it odd that so many of you haven't mentioned it yet. It's extremely blatant. Titus isn't being sneaky about it.



Oh yeah, I almost forgot. VOTE: Titus. I'm willing to bet one of Titus/Sonia are scum at this point. I'd gladiate them like Eliburn pretended if I could. I may get the chance after Kyouko just blatantly said he'd sheep a wagon on me. You people really love lynching town on these forums. The only time scum are ever caught in my games are when I do it myself. I'm not sure why so many are so bad at such easy things like scum reading. To read into my 'it's only fair' statement as being scummy is just ridiculous/bad play. To even assume I'd join in on the Elibirn/Uzi thing as scum period is insulting. Don't project your bad plays into me and think it will work in calling me scummy Titus/Sonia. Try again.

In 422 , Tywin says I haven't asked him one single question or tried to sort him. Yet in 304 , I ask him who he'd lynch first. Elbrin or Uzi. I follow up on that question in 310 and he replies in 315 .

He is hyper defensive over the "it's only fair" comment. He's treating Uzi specially. Like he doesn't want a lynch there but he has to interact.

Later, he claims I stated Gladiator is "normal", when I said no such thing in 333. When confronted with this, he doubles down on his accusations of me being scum, rather than reevaluate.

The lack of thought tells me he's lying to throw shade.

[Titus]

{SSBM, Lapsa, Cadb, Trans} <--- The fucks I'm not lynching
{Titus, Elbrin, Cloud}
{Nero}
{Pine} <--- A very stale read
{Nos, Everyone else } <-- Null, Neutral, can go either way
{Uzi, Tywin}
{Sonia}
{Gamma, AJ} <--- Pretty scummy

Except for Lapsa being town, I like this list. I would put Nos where Pine is and Pine as town. Gamma null. I agree with 95% though.

[Titus]

My mood right now be like "Fuck you all you're wrong."

zzz what to do what to do

Pedit: Titus tr on Transcend is shit obv town is going to far cause I can read him (no matter how much he says I can't) he's not doing anything he's null as hell the Aj wagon is shit
I want Titus to say why Transcend is obv town
I want Alt w/e her name is dead

He's leading wagons on scum, unifying town, and doing so with brevity.

Are you seriously townreading AJ? Scumreading Transcend? That needs reasoning.

[Titus]

Who said I'm townreading Aj?

I kinda am now cause this wagon that came out of no where is fking stupid and he should be nul to everyone imo

Transcend is lurking and not doing shit and is also null you calling him obv town screams buddy

So, you're denying he's building a wagon on AJ?
Transcend is my mason buddy. Lolz.

Why should starting drama and opportunistic voting be read as null by everyone?

[Titus]

Lapsa confirmed jester

I'd say this post is highly relevant as well, given Lapsa was taking heat (rightfully so) for his push on Cabd.

I do not lynch for "information" unless forced to do so.

We have three posts. 1 defending scum. 1 trying to start drama with Transcend. 1 opportunistic vote on Elbrin trying to get Elbrin to hang himself that just happens to counter Lapsa.

And yes, I do think Transcend is doing his own thing.

[Titus]

VOTE: Tyrone

Reason above.

This pace is stupid though.

This vote is interesting. If my theory is right, it's a bus though.

[Titus]

Lapsa confirmed jester

I'd say this post is highly relevant as well, given Lapsa was taking heat (rightfully so) for his push on Cabd.

I do not lynch for "information" unless forced to do so.

We have three posts. 1 defending scum. 1 trying to start drama with Transcend. 1 opportunistic vote on Elbrin trying to get Elbrin to hang himself that just happens to counter Lapsa.

And yes, I do think Transcend is doing his own thing.

So you moved the goal posts from Uzi to lapsa now.

Edit: And so the four man scum team is now me, Lapsa, Uzi, Tyrone. Cute.

Yeah, something like that. Y'all are all scumreads.

[Titus]

Any reason we're assuming 4 man scumteam here?

Oh and just noticed Cephrir edited the rules post; presumably to include information about daytalk.

Yeah Cephrir said he did.

I am not assuming a four man scumteam. Hence why I said "something like that".

[Titus]

@Alusae, Liking a playstyle has zero bearing on whether it is town or scum.

I wanna spam pictures of pirates now.

[Titus]

Cabd, I want to ask you something but it would interfere with your AJ questioning. Remind me later or flag when you're done. Ty.

[Titus]

Titus, can you break that down incredibly simply? Make it so obvious even my thick skull gets it? because to me it seems to be splitting hair over semantics.

BTW Titus I don't recall you answer this.

628

[Titus]

VC please

[Titus]

I don't tr Aj actually I just dislike the wagon that is being made against him so I guess sure I Ttr him based off that but nothing of his posts make me tr him
I am frustrated but not about the wagon I'm mostly upset rn cause to me it's like "this seems really clear or I'm a fucking moron" and I'm trying to figure what it is rn

The best thing to do then is to throw a vote on and watch the other reads you're more sure of. Then reasses.

[Titus]

I don't tr Aj actually I just dislike the wagon that is being made against him so I guess sure I Ttr him based off that but nothing of his posts make me tr him
I am frustrated but not about the wagon I'm mostly upset rn cause to me it's like "this seems really clear or I'm a fucking moron" and I'm trying to figure what it is rn

The best thing to do then is to throw a vote on and watch the other reads you're more sure of. Then reasses.

I don't think I understand this

If your townreads agree on a wagon, but you cannot see a reason good or bad, voting the wagon generates reactions. You can use those reactions to determine the likelihood of a wagon sticking.

[Titus]

@whoever asked; I am VERY aware of a blind spot of mien when it comes to posters who take the Metal Sonic approach to games; I don't generally try sorting them initially and let the read settle into place. lest I kneejerk them into a high confidence read spot they don't belong to.

Metal Sonic was banned before half the playerbase in here joined. You might try another reference.

@Cloud, Cabd is still obvtown.

[Titus]

Shit dunno who is around with that kind of play style any more...

I don't even remember what happened to sonic either, to be fair.

Oh well.

Ok, are you done with your questioning on AJ and four scum?

[Titus]

@Cabd, Yes. AJ's reply to you in 662 when you asked about scum got my motor running. He said I was suggesting him scum with "all four". Yet, he said a four man scumteam prior. Sounds wierd. Traitor + Four scum maybe? Or is the game too small?

@All, Metal Sonic discussion is best for outside the game. I only referenced the ban so Cabd could make his point clear.

[Titus]

Possible is all I wanted. I didn't want to go off to the moon. I have been working on that, along with rhythm and timing since you left.

[Titus]

I didn't say I was good at it. I'll never be pirate mollie lol.

[Titus]

^ i dont get all what is implied in those exchanges

You will with time.

[Titus]

Votecount 1.6

Aj The Epic 3 (Transcend, ssbm_Kyouko, Titus)
Alisae 2 (Nosferatu, xSoniaNevermindx)
Lil Uzi Vert 2 (Elbirn, Lapsa)
Titus 2 (Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister)
Elbirn 1 (Lil Uzi Vert)
CloudKicker 1 (Gamma Emerald)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Cabd)
Lapsa 1 (Pine)
Tywin Lannister 1 (Aj The Epic)

Not Voting 3 (mozamis, Alisae, CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

This vc is awkwardly reassuring for my theory. But if my theory is right, why do i feel cold?

[Titus]

Still, you're writing a lot, so you must be town!

If this is not a joke, lose it.

[Titus]

@TY,

628

[Titus]

Can someone summarize the last ~25 pages plz?

Tywin, AJ, Laspa, Uzi scum.

Elbrin, Cabd, Transcend, Mozamis, Cloudkicker, That Interesting Tough Unicorn Smilemaker town.

Pine, ptob town.

[Titus]

Hey Titus if you had to pick one BFF who would it be?

You making me choose... I don't want to. It's hard to pick between you Cabd and Cloud. Each of you I hard townread and bring a different skillset to the table.

Elbrin is the down for anything cool guy. Cabd's the analyst. Cloud is the ego check. I will likely need all of y'all.

[Titus]

How could I forget my town wrangler Transcend too...

[Titus]

That type of post is null and I do not view my townread on Pine as stale. If our reads are right, scum would naturally be pissed and want a slow down to break into the iron wall.

Sure, some would lurk.

Plotting out movements is harder to do day one on an individual level. Day one to me is more about finding pieces, turning the angles and seeing what fits.

[Titus]

Hey, you going to actually read 628 TL?

[Titus]

Fair enough Cabd. I will follow up tomorrow or the day after.

Elbrin, Alisae on paper looks town. I cannot slight people for disagreeing with me, yet I just don't feel comfortable with her.

[Titus]

Nero, why are you ignoring half the game to push on a vote you've been pushing since RVS or damn near it?

[Titus]

I don't care if you ask about me. I want to see you scumhunt, not ignore a good chunk of the game.

Wanting to sort you by having you comment on the game state as a whole =/= not wanting you to talk about me.

[Titus]

Well, what have you read? What comments can you provide?

I didn't say a whole catchup. Just something that shows you're reading the game at all rather than just asking to see who would mislynch me.

[Titus]

Now state your case. Why do you think Titus is scum?

I think there was scum voting for Lapsa. She spent awhile ignoring me and then why I brought this up she then tried to wave my vote off as RVS or random. Why should I think this is town behavior?

Because it was. You just picked my name out of a list.

[Titus]

I didn't just pick your name out of a list.

Yeah, you pretty much did to me.

One person must be scum (fallacy). Hmm, I vote Titus.

That is exactly just picking a name from a list.

[Titus]

Doesn't mean its wrong. I think the theory behind my thought was legit. You then ignored me like you do when you are scum and then tried to wave off my vote on you like you've done as scum.

It's not. I ignore RVS votes on me for the most part. I also ignore commentary that doesn't help me solve the game. Trying to dress up voting me every game as some sort of solving mechanism, well it isn't.

We'll have a more productive conversation when you're caught up.

[Titus]

Suddenly saying Titus is scum without considering the rest of the thread seems scummy to me. And it's not the effort you're putting into it when you're gone, it's the effort you're putting into it when you're here.

I think it's more vindictive and childish than scummy. I am just waiting on his catchup, or maybe I am just attached to my theory.

[Titus]

I think it's more vindictive and childish than scummy.

What's the difference?

One is anti-town and egotisical. Nero is the type that would assume my whole world revolves around him as town. I don't like it, but that is him.

Being scummy means it is more likely to be scum.

[Titus]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

your play is a mirror of our last game together where you were scum.

I called you out on ignoring me and then you spent time trying to write off m vote as vindictive or w/e

Yes. It is true though. That's why meta is garbage.

[Titus]

Why are you giving Nero busy work?

[Titus]

Nero's characterization of my play in Street Fighters isn't factuallu what I am contesting anyway.

It's more that Nero has taken my general response to his behavior as a scum response because its who I am.

I just need to see him talk about others and finish catching up to shore up my read on him.

[Titus]

*crosses arms over chest*

I like none of the three biggest wagons. I would vote Gamma at deadline but *shrug* I don't feel it.

Alise I don't really feel is scummy either.

[Titus]

*looks at Alisae*

Lapsa probably isn't town. Sonia should be higher. AJ lower. Pine isn't posting excessively elsewhere to the point where lowering him is warranted. Moz is still likely town.

*searches for brick wall*

[Titus]

Titus who is your strongest TR, reasons are not necessary. This isn't a trick question

Someone asked this before.

I cannot choose between Cabd, Elbrin, Transcend, and Cloud.

[Titus]

Titus who is your strongest TR, reasons are not necessary. This isn't a trick question

Someone asked this before.

I cannot choose between Cabd, Elbrin, Transcend, and Cloud.

Hey Titus if you had to pick one BFF who would it be?

You making me choose... I don't want to. It's hard to pick between you Cabd and Cloud. Each of you I hard townread and bring a different skillset to the table.

Elbrin is the down for anything cool guy. Cabd's the analyst. Cloud is the ego check. I will likely need all of y'all.

What caused you to add Transcend between these responses?

I forgot Transcend in the first chronologically. See 769.

[Titus]

Can I see your list ssbm

[Titus]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I am not thrilled about this but all my townreads want it and maybe we'll lynch who I want tomorrow.

[Titus]

Just join the Gamma wagon, we'll have a town force that's unified voting people out.

[Titus]

Votecount 1.7

Gamma Emerald 3 (Cabd, Elbirn, Alisae)
Alisae 3 (Nosferatu, xSoniaNevermindx, ssbm_Kyouko)
Titus 3 (Nero Cain, Tywin Lannister, Lapsa)
Aj The Epic 2 (Transcend, Titus)
Tywin Lannister 2 (Aj The Epic, mozamis)
Elbirn 1 (Lil Uzi Vert)
CloudKicker 1 (Gamma Emerald)
Lapsa 1 (Pine)
Pine 1 (CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

@AJ, I feel Alisae is pretty town (like 75-80% town) but my gut prevents locking that in. The wagon sprung up against Lapsa, who is scum, so I do not feel good about it. Alisae is a little over the top, but that could be personality.

[Titus]

*crosses arms over chest*

I like none of the three biggest wagons. I would vote Gamma at deadline but *shrug* I don't feel it.

Alise I don't really feel is scummy either.

Including voting yourself?

Are you asking me if I am suicidal? Really?

Yup. I is jester. That's me.

[Titus]

Mod: Transcend is on Gamma too.

[Titus]

Hey, my reads but for Gamma largely agree with the group. If you've missed me brow beating on Lapsa, look again.

Lapsa/Twyin/AJ/Uzi scum.

You might want to take a look at your company on my wagon.

I will be back tonight to fully case Lapsa. I think someone asked againbut 2am.

[Titus]

Skim catch up now, more in the morning. How much I get through depends on how long my husband takes to get to bed, which could be 5 mins to an hour or two.

[Titus]

Titus is 100% wrong, but I remain wholly unconvinced on her being scum.

This doesn't jive with my theory. Scum AJ would have been voting me, given 1 townread between the votes.

[Titus]

Titus is 100% wrong, but I remain wholly unconvinced on her being scum.

What do you think she is wrong about?

Her current scum team still includes me for some asinine reason she's basically pulling from thin air. The reason I don't contest it is because I've come to expect this from Titus

Well hello Mr. Arrogance. Being an asshole to your townread and ignoring faults is something I have seen before.

Hold this until analysis.

[Titus]

AJ picks the easiest players to call scum here. That's not a real analysis. He simply went with the two players most won't disagree with in a way that requires explaining. AJ hasn't done anything all game as far as I've seen, unless I missed something between the last 12 pages (will catch up soon regardless). The guy is skating by and is half-hearting these bs reads.

AJ: why am I scum? Why is Alisae scum? Why do you have two scum reads, but can't seem to get reads on more than half the game? Please explain all the reads you half heartedly slapped together.

Yeah, this is a load of crock. Tywin scum attacking AJ not in a bus, definitely suggests AJ scum is wrong.

The melidramatic falsehoods are a theme here. AJ Tywin likely doesn't work.

[Titus]

Well that's because I'M NOT CAUGHT UP, MEANING I CAN'T ANALYZE JACK SHIT!

Yeah, that's not true.

[Titus]

it annoys me to no end that I have posted, multiple times, why I think Titus is scum and both Ali and Elbrin are acting like it never happened.

that's because your "catchup" never materialized, and likely never will.

You're on ignore until I see something that actually resembles content

[Titus]

it annoys me to no end that I have posted, multiple times, why I think Titus is scum and both Ali and Elbrin are acting like it never happened.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm waiting for the other cases. I know you and Noz as stated theirs.

Nero and who? Nosferatu hasn't posted anything about Titus being scum afaik

Marking this. Reaffirming townread here. This is odd.

[Titus]

@Nero you are underwhelming

you disappoint me. :/

Like you, Moz and SSBM are all town since you are voting scum and I have no reason to think its a bus but you guys are all so parinoid of me 'cause I don't have 15565473465795624768 posts yet.

This sounds like Gunslingers Nero.

[Titus]

Hey Tywin, remember those times when I chainsawed and you thought I was scum for it but then we were both town? good times.

How would you defend your townreads?

@SSBM

Spoiler:

Who is the chick so I can go look her up

This response to Tywin is off. :/ Doesn't feel like arms length deal. Too chummy.

[Titus]

I do have to admit, the gladiate, if real, neuters my vca too...

This is horrible. VCA still works with gladiation.

No. It really doesn't. I have been reading through here and every post here is theory and a good chunk is wrong. VCA centers on the choices made. Gladiation artificially removes choices from the game, limiting data points.

Since I am making a post educating you, here's what you need for a good VCA

1) Every vote count colored, without bias of town by play
2) A scum flip not caused by a guilty/gladiator
3) 3 days of data to work with
4) A good understanding of optimal town and scum play
5) The ability to filter a VI.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I will get back to reading. If I only see more bad theory spec that makes me rip my hair out, I will be annoyed.

[Titus]

I think only Elbin and Alisae and Titus herself think she's the town leader

Town leader cannot be determined today. You don't know the first thing about me Nero if you think I label myself town leader. I am vocal as fuck town but the wagons are not who I want, so I am not leading shit.

[Titus]

Town: Cabd, SSBM, Cloud, Nero

Pro Town: Elibirn (see Uzi below), Sonia, mozamis, Lapsa

Null: Transcend, Gamma, AJ, Pine

Pro scum: Alisae, Nosferatu, Uzi (Uzi or Elibirn could change sides based on the flip of the other)

Scum: Titus

Do you see Titus and Alisae as scum together and does Alisae's behavior affect your read on Titus at all? Can you explain why Nero is so high on your list?

Given Nero's posting here, he's the townbeard and Tywin is kissing his ass.

[Titus]

I do have to admit, the gladiate, if real, neuters my vca too...

This is horrible. VCA still works with gladiation.

No. It really doesn't. I have been reading through here and every post here is theory and a good chunk is wrong. VCA centers on the choices made. Gladiation artificially removes choices from the game, limiting data points.

Since I am making a post educating you, here's what you need for a good VCA

1) Every vote count colored, without bias of town by play
2) A scum flip not caused by a guilty/gladiator
3) 3 days of data to work with
4) A good understanding of optimal town and scum play
5) The ability to filter a VI.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I will get back to reading. If I only see more bad theory spec that makes me rip my hair out, I will be annoyed.

Jesus Christ, pot meet kettle.

Titus is the player that called 4 players the scum team and conf biases everything over her bad theory in hopes of proving it right somehow. It's the definition of a bad theory, yet she has the nerve to call out Gamma? Wow. Misplaced fucking ego that is.

Oh wow, another lie on my post edit. AJ doesn't fit with you as scum, and my catchup saw that.

A lie to discredit me again, why am I not surprised?

[Titus]

@Alisae: what will you do if Titus flips scum? Your entire game will be flipped upside down. Why in the world would you be so sure of anyone on D1? That's ridiculous.

Subtle townblock attack. Given they can feed Nero's ego and blame him when shit goes side ways and start attacking the townblock...this is the type of post I expect

[Titus]

Town: Cabd, SSBM, Cloud, Nero

Pro Town: Elibirn (see Uzi below), Sonia, mozamis, Lapsa

Null: Transcend, Gamma, AJ, Pine

Pro scum: Alisae, Nosferatu, Uzi (Uzi or Elibirn could change sides based on the flip of the other)

Scum: Titus

Do you see Titus and Alisae as scum together and does Alisae's behavior affect your read on Titus at all? Can you explain why Nero is so high on your list?

I can definitely see it, albeit it being pretty improbable due to just straight bad play. Alisae would be extreme newbscum in that scenerio though, and Titus sure hasn't called her out for the blatant buddying. It's really bad, and any suspicious townie would call it out. Honestly, if I wasn't so sure Titus was scum, I'd just straight call Alisae scum and vote there. Buddying that bad on D1 isn't town play.

Does alisae's behavior affect my read on Titus? Yes, but only in slightly thinking Titus could be town and Alisae scum. I could definitely see Alisae/Titus scum team though, and without day talk, Titus can't reprimand Alisae for the blatant buddying. That will happen N1 IMO.

Ok, add veteran to your scumteam for this.

[Titus]

Oh, and Nero is high on my list due to him being one of the very few (me/Lapsa/Nero?) in-game to really question or go after Titus and her motivations. She was being put on a pedestal by Alisae and Elibrin, and others were sheeping her. She's been going after bad wagons consistently, but when only a few players question it, then it's likely due to her being scum. Easy wagons are usually scum driven, and Titus has pushed them all.

Yeah, no one's been sheeping me this game, given my pool wasn't being wagoned. Halfway convinced to fuck correcting all the garbage that comes out of your mouth.

[Titus]

It's more likely than not a townslio given it was highlighted by the mod and scum is actively talking in their thread.

Very ballsy scum move to feign ignorance after the mod flat out posted that daytalk is a thing.

Yeah, it's not ballsy at all Cabd. The whole game knows scum have daytalk. That's easy enough to fake.

[Titus]

Anyway, nero cain what do you think of tywin/alisae/titus trifecta

I think there's also the possibility of Elbirn wich would mean one of tywin/alisae is wrong but otherwise I can see it.

Bonus. 5 bucks says Nero's reason for doubting Elbrin can be summed up as thinking I am town.

[Titus]

Since it's come up again I'll actually quote the wiki and link the page if you guys want to verify
"Mechanical changes which must be announced beforehand include:
Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand."
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

We don't know if Mafia have an encryptor or not so we don't know if there's daytalk because the mod did not announce it. The mod is obligated to announce if there will be daytalk

without

an encryptor in a Normal Game.

Oh this changed since last time I played normals.

FWIW Cephrir does come fro the school of mods who used to enjoy daytalk; not sure if it's still the case but I'd call it more likely than not.

I really don't know what daytalk does to affect balance. Can you teach me?

Really? Why are you constantly asking asinine questions?

Okay, here's an example for you:

Titus is scum buddies with Alisae. Without day talk, Alisae is extreme newbscum and doesn't know to not buddy her scum team in-thread. She thinks that's how to play, but obviously Titus can't go and say 'hey Alisae, calm down there buddy, you'll get us both caught!' Without day talk, newbscum Alisae does what she does.

With day talk, the experienced scum would calm her the fuck down and try to minimize her mistakes.

Yeah, more evidence Tywin is faking for towncred. Cabd just recently stated the mod confirmed daytalk and Tywin is still doing "analysis" in the alternative.

[Titus]

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Yeah AJ's town. My scumreads went off somewhere.

[Titus]

Oh yeah, I know I can't do that AJ. If I was scum, I gotta commit to the buddy. Otherwise I'm just killing myself. And at this point, I see nothing stopping the townies from forming a wagon on me.

You

only suspect townies

of wagoning you?

Why the sudden bow to flip from Twyin to me? Why the sudden 180?

[Titus]

@Tywin, Being town and being honest are good steps to my townread.

Now off to grab the RVS mega wagons to revamp my theory.

[Titus]

Votecount 1.2

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)
Alisae 4 (Aj The Epic, Nosferatu, Lapsa, Tywin Lannister)
Elbirn 2 (Lil Uzi Vert, xSoniaNevermindx)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Cabd)

Not Voting 5 (Nero Cain, Transcend, mozamis, ssbm_Kyouko, CloudKicker)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 1.3

Elbirn 6 (Lil Uzi Vert, xSoniaNevermindx, Aj The Epic, ssbm_Kyouko, Transcend, CloudKicker)
Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)
Alisae 3 (Nosferatu, Lapsa, Tywin Lannister)
Gamma Emerald 1 (Cabd)

Not Voting 2 (Nero Cain, mozamis)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Votecount 1.4

Elbirn 4 (Lil Uzi Vert, Aj The Epic, ssbm_Kyouko, Transcend)
CloudKicker 3 (xSoniaNevermindx, Tywin Lannister, Gamma Emerald)
Lapsa 2 (Pine, Titus)
Gamma Emerald 2 (Cabd, Alisae)
Alisae 1 (Nosferatu)
Lil Uzi Vert 1 (Elbirn)
Titus 1 (Nero Cain)

Not Voting 3 (mozamis, CloudKicker, Lapsa)

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

Ok, let's take a look at these wagons.

Laspa and Alisae are big RVS wagons. This suggests Alisae and Lapsa are not on the same team. If T v T, scum don't need two town RVS wagons. Scum wouldn't dual wagon each other, this suggests T v S.

We continue on to see that Elbrin v Laspa. Lapsa has the exact same wagon composition as before. Yet, a new wagon springs up on Elbrin. We can conclude here that Elbrin is NOT teamed with Lapsa, unless the entire gamestate is wrong. AJ moves away from Alisae to Elbrin. Yet, for the most part, this doesn't seem to be a scum push to save Lapsa. Yet, it provides an excellent excuse for any RVS bussers to back off.

Elbrin and Lapsa wagons start disintegrating at the same time. A cloudkicker wagon emerges.

There is a pattern I am seeing. Tywin sheeping a lot. Normally, without flips, I wouldn't detail this given a full VCA cannot be done. Yet his manta is Titus cannot be town because she's sheeping. Seems more like a case of projection than anything.

Now, let's bring this back to game play.

Lapsa has done nothing since being wagoned. Several offhand comments have been made about lurkers but more energy has been spent on discrediting me and my townblock reads. The last time he rolled scum, he tried a bit of discrediting but I rolled GS and basically guiltied everyone.

So refresh

Cloudkicker, Elbrin, Cabd, SSM, Titus hard town
Transcend Nero AJ, strong town

Pine diwn, now my read has gotten stale
Lil Uzi, feels wierd, up to null; townie sounding posts but buddy central
Gamma down to gun to my head town (don't see why scum gamma protects me).
Nos blank
Mozamis needs reassessment, same with Sonia

Alise scummy but not scum with Tywin

Twyin lapsa definitely teamed

[Titus]

Titus who do you see me being paired scum with?

Don't know. Not enough data, but why would you care?

[Titus]

VOTE: Tywin

I want to see how this plays out. I do have a theory on Alisae as well, but holding it for ~reasons~.

[Titus]

Titus who do you see me being paired scum with?

Don't know. Not enough data, but why would you care?

Because I wanna help you scumhunt?

That's not helping scumhunt. That's pushing me down a path, which unfortunately is a different theory all together.

Also, why are you voting me if convinced I am hunting?

[Titus]

Does a Tywin lynch mean others will finally call Titus into question?

Everyone answer me. Stop defending her terrible play. Idc if you're friends. It's bad, and it's bad on purpose.

Titus is scum. I will vote myself off if it gets her investigated or lynched or something other than players like Gamma calling her town.

Like more than half the thread townreads me and they are not "players like Gamma". This is a subtle dig at anyone townreading me. It also suggests you know Gamma is town, while you have been painting him as scum.

Also, trying to force investigations is antitown as fuck.

@Gamma, vote Tywin with me.

[Titus]

So, what is your read on me Alisae?

[Titus]

btw im calling a tvst tywin titus

T v S?

[Titus]

Alisea is milking it too

Try a different angle. I think you are seeing the same behavior pattern, but reaching a different conclusion. I don't know whether it's novice or fear though.

I have Alisea pegged as what she is not, rather than what she is.

[Titus]

i also hard tr tywin

Fuck that noise.

[Titus]

So, what is your read on me Alisae?

If Tywin flips scum, town. If Tywin flips town, scum.

And Tywin just said he would self-hammer himself. I KNOW Tywin is the kind of person to claim at L-1 instead of self-hammer if he was town. Becuase he knows that is a townie thing to do. He's not trying to prove to us that he's town, he's trying to prove that Titus is scum. And I'm fucking taking his bluff.

Alisae, I think I know what you're up to if Evil. :/ If good, well I would give you advice, but I dunno if you are.

[Titus]

I think both of you are just too invested and should back off a bit, its easier to see interactions when youre outside tunnels and whatnot, alisea 2nd to last post was explicitiy scumtelling imo

She's selfconscious as fuck, but why scumtell.

I think you're too invested to see Tywin scumtell FTR.

[Titus]

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

Yeah, she's wanting really hard to be liked by every single slot in the game.

Explaining that any further is extremely anti-town.

[Titus]

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

Yeah, she's wanting really hard to be liked by every single slot in the game.

Explaining that any further is extremely anti-town.

oh

You got the theory I am running on now, that leaves 2 highly likely possibilities? Doubly so, given my Tywin PoV?

[Titus]

alisea is bascially saying that shes flip flopping because of tywin and that is just lold

I'll fucking confirm this. I am flip floping at the moment. I don't know what the fuck to do. I don't know who the fuck is what. I dunno what's real. I dunno what's fake. I dunno my gender even. What operating system is this toaster even fucking using? Is it fucking Vista? Point is I fucking snapped.
But I am keeping my vote on Tywin. I'm done flipflopping. Unless something else happens, I'm keeping my vote on tywin.
I'm keeping my vote on tywin.
All of these circles, make a square.
All of these circles, make a square.
Just calm down. It's gonna be okay.

Stuff like this doesnt come off as genuine tho

Agreed. It reads desperate.

[Titus]

About tywin wagon, some of his line looks like genuine frustrated town, even the self comment didnt comme off as forced to me, i once said and did that as town not so long ago with great success, i also was correct about my deathtunnel

Frustration can be genuine without Tywin being town. Wouldn't you be frustrated if a large townblock recognized each other as scum? Tywin's on the outs and looking in, and that's frustrating regardless of his alignment.

He reminds me a bit of Mathblade when boxed out, and they got really bad in Wake's game.

[Titus]

Alisea you have no reason to be, thats what we are saying so clam down, you arent responsible of the votes

I just feel so fucked and toyed with and manipulated. At this point I completely forgot about everyone else. I think I just need to take a few minutes to go fucking chill. A warm bath sounds nice. Or a shower. I'ma go do that, and calm down.

It's nice tho that you're both telling me to calm down. I feel like if you two were scum ywall would have wanted to keep me in this panic state. My strongest town reads at the moment.
Thank you. Honestly.

So I am telling you to calm down (I wasn't because heightened intensity gets the best reads) and now I am your strongest townread?

[Titus]

I dont buy twin scum being this obstinated and going after you so hard d1

Yeah, how he plays scum is different from you. Scum plays vary based on the situation. Do not suppose how you do something is how everyone does.

#Mamahenning

[Titus]

Ok, well we can agree to disagree for now.

[Titus]

VOTE: Tywin
I'm not defending bad play. You're trying to misrepresent the things Titus is saying, and when confronted with quotes you are ignoring the fact that you have been misrepresenting her.

@Cloud - you're at least half right b/c Titus is town, but one or both of Tywin and Alisae are scum here. I wanted to stay on Alisae of the two because she was on the Lapsa wagon. Also I think it is not pro-town to park your vote on an inactive slot. There are things happening right now that you could be influencing better if you were voting a relevant wagon.

I don't like post. Like, the way I'm reading it gives off the tone that Kyouko wanted to defend Tywin but can't anymore.

Nah, total misread of tone.

It's more indignant.

[Titus]

To titus: You literally have a title based around how weirdly screwy your logic and approach to the game is. Do you really think that a player unfamiliar with you and your play style finding it weird and anti-town without context is actually a scumtell? in and of itself? (Yes I know there's more than that to your case but work with me here)

No, my title is based on how different my logic is, not screwy. I have been putting considerable effort into improving my towngame Cabd. Nero and AJ in my scumlist for a reason. Tywin isn't scumreading me for my playstyle. He reflexively OMGUSed me and lied about my posts. He's not finding my playstyle wierd. If that's all it was, my approach would be different. Now, I am going to back out of your way since you need that. However, until Tywin stops lying about what has happened in this thread, he will need rope. Clear?

[Titus]

*aren't

[Titus]

just gonna VOTE: Cloud for that early interaction with Cabd; so awkward.

If there is another vote on Cloud, this is probably scum.

[Titus]

Mod:VC please

[Titus]

Please do.

[Titus]

Lapsa, you want to talk about anyone but Tywin (not Tywin out of respect for Cabd)?

[Titus]

Titus: Ignoring tywin's positions in regards to you/your posts; what else is in your case? Lay that out and see if what is left is still convincing to you; and to others?

Cabd, Tywin's ISO is nearly excusively lying about me/AJ, slipping Gamma is town (one post only), and trying to fake towntell. There is no way to divorce the lies and case him. That's removing his entire ISO.

[Titus]

Tywin, This is again, why you need to die. There is not a single misrepresentation in my entire ISO. You said I asked you no questions. That was wrong. You were shown it was wrong. You doubled down on the fiction. You're also immediately discrediting any kind of post I make. Your posts with Uzi felt fake. You tried to create the impression i thought it was a mega scumtell. (Tone isn't a scumtell, just an indicator). Until you actually tell the truth and do analysis, you need to die.

Given the extremely low likelihood of you being capable of such, given your likely pm, there is not much to say here. Either you lie and die, or be honest and live. No less than 3 players see you as a known liar (me, Gamma, and ssm) so your attempts to paint me as wrong/bad/lying/scum will not work.

[Titus]

That being said, I will look elsewhere and let others sort this mess however they see fit. I will even agree to my own lynch if it somehow helps town get info, but if the info is only to see that Titus is railroading a townie and completely blinded by conf bias, then I don't see the point.

@Titus: what will you do if/when I flip town? What information will you have gained? What backup plan do you have if I'm a mislynch? Do you have one, or are you positive I'm scum? If you're positive, and I flip town, then what happens? Will you agree that you railroaded a towbie for no reason and that it looks extremely scummy on your part? Be honest. There's no way you're 100% certain, but if so, then I truly wonder what you'll say/do after I flip town.

If you'll flip town, someone died who cannot read even basic mod announcements, so I have zero hope of anything you said bring useful.

[Titus]

Nah I respect the wish of a player to replace out; it's perfectly fine. I used to have feelings to the contrary but hen I got married and a house and a full time job.

See you on some other plane of existence, transcend.

Please do post any final thoughts you have before you take off?

This. I use this to help in my job, but many don't.

[Titus]

Okay: Titus; assuming for a second tywin is town; does your pick for the "other" parts of the scumteam change? Who is your top suspect going into day two if tywin is lynched flips VT and I get shot overnight?

Tywin; who is your highest non-titus pick for scum right now?

Lapsa is probably still scum.

Alisae I have a desperate to survive read on and I would compromise there, but I would be gambling.

[Titus]

Idk if you answered this Titus but I'll ask again

Why does it have to just not be a misunderstanding over lies.

People who have a misunderstanding read where they are proven wrong and change or go to the moon.

[Titus]

Idk if you answered this Titus but I'll ask again

Why does it have to just not be a misunderstanding over lies.

People who have a misunderstanding read where they are proven wrong and change or go to the moon.

One might even say they become.. a moon walker?

They could.
Indeed.

A moon walker is

Moon Walker: The light was red.
*corrected*
Moon Walker: Well, ok the light was green but they are still a shitty driver due to xyz.

A liar is

Liar: Light was red.
*corrected*
Liar: Ignores statements.
Liar: Light was red.

Tywin is the latter.

[Titus]

No, Tywin is red-green colorblind and so you can't get into his head and vice versa.

Like I said, I will reevaluate when Tywin tells the truth. He cannot though, so he dies. If wrong, we eliminated someone that cannot read or listen. I have been quite cooperative, but my read will not change barring him being honest or mod confirmation of him being dumb town. If the latter, I can reasses but I wouldn't put stock into anything he says. He's red green colorblind because he's likely not town though.

Take his last posts. Widely townread players shouldn't be town leaders. A good chunk of his ISO is discrediting and trying to get players to turn against each other. That is a player caught on the outside, desperately waiting to change the course of the game. That's more congruent with scum, pissed at an all town block.

[Titus]

Well, if you would want to pick me over him, so be it. Tywin cannot be allowed to live near lylo, and there's a wagon on him, I will be on it. He's a scum read. Threatening me, when you you're postulating this is a T v T, just tells me that you won't reevaluate Tywin. I don't need every town to lynch scum or townbeards. I just need enough town. If he will be lynched before lylo, that's what the town needs.

Those people slipping into the shadows, they are my other reads as partners with Tywin.

[Titus]

Those people slipping into the shadows, they are my other reads as partners with Tywin.

Then name and shame.


P.S..: I'm about 70% on him; but that's STRONG for a day one read.

Lapsa for starters, Uzi for another (but I waffle here)

Alisae is also scummy, but not likely aligned with Tywin, she seeks his approval too much.

[Titus]

He's clear to me.

Basically, he's saying if Tywin's a town idiot we can carry him and put him on ignore and hopefully not reach the point of policy lynching him.

[Titus]

Yeah, because Tywin just attacks anyone. *shrug*

We can lynch him or lynch another scumread. If the group agrees he needs to go, he goes. If not, there's other scum.

Either way, it is a nice thing. More scumhunting and town blocking.

[Titus]

Priceless, because it's okay to insult someone so much that they finally check out and do it back? Hmm. Yep, priceless. Have fun children. This is a game, but when someone takes it too far and it stops being a game to them, then that's where I say fuck off and peace out.

Sorry, if you take being called out as an insult rather being fake as fuck to earn Cabd's sympathy, then you have no business playing mafia. You have to be able to stomach being corrected without taking it as a personal affront. If you cannot, good luck.

I mean you no ill will, but I am not someone who believes everyone deserves a trophy for showing up but rather town functions best when we get the best from each other. If you do not fit in that, you need to die.

[Titus]

Cabd, there's a wagon on Twyin for a reason. If I was alone in scumreading Tywin, I would do as you ask. You do not need to babysit me. You need to realize that may I am right. You need to realize that players like Tywin, that if town, need to read the game. We cannot have players like Tywin who ask twice, after mod confirmation, if scum have daychat. That type of player is not engaged in intelligent thought but posts garbage that makes the game impossible, regardless of his alignment. All Tywin has done is attack obvious town. If no one agreed with me, your call would have more use. It doesn't.

If the group decides to spare Tywin, I will unvote him. Not before. We have a pretty solid fucking townblock, so we can remove players like Tywin.

[Titus]

We still don't NEED to go for his removal. The thing is, we also aren't required to listen to him until her decides to post something that isn't him calling out non-existent attacks.

There ARE, as I said, other things to get done. Aka Kyouko and Alisae.

SSM is in my hard town block and Alisae is highly unlikely to be group scum.

[Titus]

Is Alisae a case of too scummy to be scum for you? If you're not calling her scum, I'd expect her to be implicitly town but your language doesn't make that seem true.

Yes, that is option A. Who is desperate enough to want

everyone including scum

to like them? I could always lynch Alisae if push comes to shove, but I am concerned about option B.

[Titus]

Lapsa, did you ever get back to me with your scumreads?

[Titus]

Defined as?

You, Elbrin, Myself, titus. We can basically assume Tran's replacement for town, so given a reasonable player is put there, they'll be capable of fulfilling this too. I'm working on Nero, who I believe is capable, but I don't have a townread on yet.

Basically a group of players capable of driving this game in a positive direction going forward. If town only has one head, they'll be picked off and the town has to reorganize each day. That's why it's really important to have multiple heads capable of making good decisions. And the democratic process of finding if one is lying is basically that they're also the center of attention and the ones who have to be right constantly to avoid scrutiny.

*throws up a little bit in my mouth*

This and the other "town cheerleading" posts he makes after this are just gross. And including himself in the bloc. Yeahhhh...nah son.

I don't like AJ's post above. I personally don't find him all that townie to begin with, so idk how he believes him or Elibrin deserve town leadership roles. You guys aren't confirmed, and you're not super town enough to even assume that role. Adding Titus is clearly not my cup of tea, but even if you believe her town, she wants to mislynch town. Therefore, Idk what you're hoping for AJ, but it certainly shouldn't happen. Maybe on a day or two 'if' you're cleared by a PR, but right now? You're that confident in Elibrin/Titus? Hmmmm....

Tywin as persecuted as you're feeling lately I believe in you and a lot that you say, and this was a good post. Resonated with me and shit. Also Please don't self vote

Well, if you would want to pick me over him, so be it. Tywin cannot be allowed to live near lylo, and there's a wagon on him, I will be on it. He's a scum read. Threatening me, when you you're postulating this is a T v T, just tells me that you won't reevaluate Tywin

. I don't need every town to lynch scum or townbeard

s. I just need enough town. If he will be lynched before lylo, that's what the town needs.

Those people slipping into the shadows, they are my other reads as partners with Tywin.

Well when you're doing the math to figure out how many you need, know that I'm not on board. Sorry homie but you and Tywin are both way off base here in regards to each other.

AJ's views mirror my own and his argument is protown. We have a mutual, mostly consensus PoE going on. Tywin is just railing against it.

Look at who he's attacking. Myself, Gamma, and AJ, exclusively for agreeing. There is no analysis there. We can agree to disagree on Tywin, but don't start attacking town please because you want to protect a Tywin who is resorting to playing the victim.

@Tywin, If you consider a request for intelligent posting as bullying, you'd feel bullied every game. If you're town, you need a thicker skin and fast. Given you cannot progress beyond the retaliatory, you likely aren't.

[Titus]

I'm done with this shit.

Dayvig: Tywin Lannister

Thank you.

[Titus]

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot.

SSM is town. I like the other 3 scumreads.

[Titus]

I'm cheering because you're a hypocrite. And I have a TR on both Titus and AJ fyi
I do love all these idiots shouting "town v town!" though.

Disagreeing doesn't make someone an idiot.

[Titus]

Thanks for saving me the trouble Gamma.

And Yeah Titus, I agree on focusing on someone else, either Kyouko, Lapsa, or me if you really want to. If you want, I can try to show off my case on Kyouko if you would like to hear it. Kyouko seems like he could be town, but if Tywin is scum, I can see him being paired up with Lapsa and Tywin. But let's see what he flips first.
Either way, if you are willing to work with me, I feel like we can get this game solved by day 2 or day 3 assuming that Tywin is scum.

My top scum reads at the moment are Lapsa, Tywin, Kyouko, and Moz.

If Tywin is town, then my theory about Kyouko is off by a long shot.

SSM is town. I like the other 3 scumreads.

I really want to think that SSM is town. I really do.
Atleast humor me and AJ on the fact that he needs to be revisited. I'ma start writing my case on him now.

I can do that.

[Titus]

I'm cheering because you're a hypocrite. And I have a TR on both Titus and AJ fyi
I do love all these idiots shouting "town v town!" though.

We all know how good you are with killing townies Gamma.

Hey, you're dying now. Last reads. Assume I am town and scum. Give reasons.

[Titus]

I'm done with this shit.

Dayvig: Tywin Lannister

Sorry gamma I already did a fake gladiate we've hit our quota for this game

@Titus I'm not attacking you, but I strongly disagree with your assessment re:tywin and the people's Republic of Elbirn will not stand for it

@Alisae I sure did! I'm at work right now and have to go I'll answer later but man its just 2 faked 4 me

Nor do i perceive you attacking me. The People's Republic of Titus will be ready to eliminate enemies at a moments notice, but leave embassies open for the honest.

[Titus]

Gamma, I can take a heated comment. Calling me trashy as fuck is just a threatened individual retaliating. Given he won't give last reads when he buys you shooting him, we're likely looking at a red flip. No need to engage. He refuses to give up his buddies.

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus
There's being stubborn and then there's being unreasonable
this is the ladder

Just how am I being unreasonable? Removing a known liar who does not admit it is the height of reason.