Newbie 1766 - Game Over

[Aeronaut]

Hi Everyone!

I'll be you're IC (Inexperienced-Challenged) player for this game. That means that I'm in charge of teaching you the basics of playing mafia, as well as being an actual player in the game. As an IC, I

WILL NOT

lie to you about game theory, how to play, common tells and the like. I know you'll have a lot of questions, so don't hesitate to ask me!

An important thing to note; I will write in this color when I'm talking about IC stuff, theory, answering a question, etc. Think of it as: You can believe anything I say in this color to be 100% true, because I am bound by those rules as an IC.

I'm excited to be playing with you all

Once the game ends, I'll post a game review for each newbie who played, so you can see all the things I thought you did well or that you could improve on. Obviously, you're pretty new to the site, so don't be afraid to make mistakes; we're all here to learn.

the basics

In the next few sections, I'll cover some basic stuff.

Spoiler: How to Play

Your Job

Play to your win condition; this means the conditions that must be met in order for your faction to win the game, as specified in your role PM. (E.g. A Vanilla Townie's Wincon would be to eliminate all threats to the town. If you have questions about your role or your Wincon, don't hesitate to PM the Mod!)

As Town, your job is to erradicate all members of the scumteam. As scum, your job is to kill enough town members to outnumber them or nothing can prevent that from happening. If you get a Power Role (Cop, Doctor, Roleblocker), make sure you use it to your full advantage.

Voting

During the day, it is your job to vote for the player you wish to be lynched. Use vote tags like so:

Code: Select all

[vote]Aeronaut[/vote]

That will show up as VOTE: Aeronaut

You can unvote and revote as often as you'd like, it isn't final until a majority is reached. Remember, your vote is your best asset! It's what gives the your faction power. Use your vote to get reactions, vote for who you want lynched, etc. Don't be afraid to place your vote, as it can be changed at any time until a majority is reached.

Always try to have good reasoning behind your votes, your actions, etc. Information is necessary for every win condition, and it's people will be more likely to follow your lead if your argument makes some sort of sense.

Also, remember that you win with your faction even if you are dead. What this means: Imagine you are town, and are mislynched Day 1. You will still technically win if town lynches all of the remaining scum, so keep that in mind.

Spoiler: Some Terms and Abbreviations

Common Terms

Here's a quick non-perfect list of terms you may seen thrown around:

IC:

Inexperience-Challenged player (that's me!)

SE:

Semi-experienced challenged player. These are players with a good amount of experience on the site.

Scum:

General term for non-town alignments, in the case of this game, the mafia players

L-#:

The number of votes before a player is lynched. (Example, "Aeronaut is at L-4" means I am 4 votes away from being lynched)

LYLO:

Lynch (correctly) or lose. This means that if a lynch on town occurs, the mafia immediately wins because they'll have at least 50% of the numbers.

BP:

Bulletproof, a role that can get shot by the mafia once and not die.

Doc:

Doctor, a role that can attempt to protect people from nightkills.

JK:

Jailkeeper, a role that both protects and blocks its target.

Scummy:

An adjective for any action (or player) more likely to come from or be mafia than town.

Meta:

A player's past style of playing from completed games as a given role as compared to their current play.

PR:

Power Role, any role that is not vanilla town or mafia goon.

OMGUS:

(Oh my god you suck) is where a player essentially votes a player for voting them first. Considered not good play.

NK:

Night Kill. The mafia's kill they get to use once a night.

PT:

Private Topic: The hidden secret forum where the mafia may talk at night and pregame.

Crumb:

A hidden message that can be revealed as needed or will be found after your death hinting on what you do with a power role, or that you are that role.

Claim:

An outright claim of your role. Please note you may NOT post your role PM, you can only paraphrase it. DO NOT DO THIS UNTIL IT IS COMPLETELY NECESSARY.

CC:

Counter Claim. This is when someone claims a role that makes a previous role claim false, exposing the previous player as lying.

Hammer:

The vote that brings somebody from L-1 to lynched. IT'S IMPORTANT TO DECLARE INTENT TO HAMMER BEFORE DOING IT!

Mislynch:

When town mistakenly lynches a player who was town.

Let me know if I missed anything!

Helpful Links

Also, here are some links that may also help you out.

• Beginners Guide to Mafia
  Various Mafia Role Descriptions
  Game Theory (See also: Theory in the wiki).

Remember, the Wiki is your friend!

Spoiler: Common Etiquette (A MUST READ)

Etiquette

1.

What the Mod says, goes.

Period. If you have a problem with the way the game is run, take it up with the list moderator.

2.

Stay Active!

Games with a lot of inactive players are slow and boring and nobody likes that. Posting 1-2 times a day is great.

3.

Don't start pointless arguments or personal wars

; name calling and vulgarity isn't helpful to anybody, not even scum. Just don't do it, it makes game unplayable.

4.

NEVER Self-hammer, Give up your teammates as scum, talk about ongoing games, or do anything to unfairly influence the game on purpose.

5.

Finally, always remember that it's a game.

People are going to get mad. The game of Mafia is not always a polite one; there will be heated exchanges and toxic situations. It's always important to remember that this is still just a game; we're all still just trying to win. Having said that, being as polite as possible makes for much more enjoyable games, but more importantly, will give you more charisma and influence within the town!

This is going to be a fun game hopefully, and don't forget, if you have a question, ASK AWAY! Try to make it pretty visible to me in case I missed it.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Friend Computer

I weirdly like this username

[Aeronaut]

Can you not use a font colour that makes my eyes bleed?

You're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do

Yeah I can barely read that blue on the dark theme tbh

well your issue is that you're using mafblack. mafblack is the worst. (but i'll switch to

this color

so that people can actually read it.)

[Aeronaut]

Hey that's a lot of writing and not a lot of voting you're doing there
VOTE: the_end

I'm just waiting for everyone to post before I decide who to vote for.

There was a lot of writing from rb before I came along. Why didn't you vote for him?

He voted

He's voting someone already. It's okay to just pick a name at random off the list and vote it. It's expected really that you start by voting for someone, especially if you're one of the first few players to post in the game. Sometimes you don't get online until a few pages have passed and then you'll want to check the vote count before you vote so you don't put yourself onto a big wagon you don't actually support.

Yeah, but why do what's expected?

Hey rb I vote from phone all the time you lazy bum

also just gonna stress that im not sure why youd bother doing such a thing when it's so cumbersome and life is full of so many wonderful things to experience and see and instead ur just sitting there fucking around with vote tags in a roleplaying game.

*rips blunt*

Nothing to say, random voting, don't want to get on the_end's wagon.

VOTE: rb

Why don't you want to get onto the_end's wagon?

Why do you feel the need to random vote anyway?

[Aeronaut]

Finals kicking my ass, will be able to play when I'm home tomorrow.

[Aeronaut]

Alright folks, reading what I missed.

[Aeronaut]

Unlike most people, ive grown to love RVS more than i love my own son

Same tbh. It's like that moment of having fun before you have to defend yourself from death for the next 100 pages.

VOTE: the end

he said i said a thing that scum would say and thats a good enough reason to vote some1 rn

What'd he say

I'm going to UNVOTE: rb for now because Zekro's vote, but I'm a bit iffy about the openness of declaring reads and alignment so soon. Could just be how rb works tho and to be fair there's something to be said about sort-of-kind-of leading us towards the end of rvs this early.

What's Zekro's vote have to do with you unvoting RB, though? Is it just the wagon size?

Nothing to say, random voting, don't want to get on the_end's wagon.

VOTE: rb

Why don't you want to get onto the_end's wagon?

Why do you feel the need to random vote anyway?

It's not like I feel the "need" to random vote, but I'd rather place my vote somewhere (with the side bonus of showing I'm active and "started playing") than do nothing.

Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.

Also, don't want to get on any wagon, simply. I put my vote on one of the already voted option as they are those who are actively reading and posting in the thread, so I'm not throwing my random vote without even getting some reaction from the voted one.

So now that some time has passed, what did you gather from RB's reaction to your vote?

[Aeronaut]

#43 moved my vote because I didn't like the direction Zekro's vote was leading to/didn't want to be part of a wagon on someone I wasn't 100% sure is scum.

So, I feel like you (and most new people in this game) are thinking of your vote the wrong way.

As town, besides a select few people, you only get one real weapon, and that's your vote. You should be using it! Vote people not just if you're absolutely sure they're scum, but even if something feels off or you simply want to pressure them. Pressure is what gets scum to crack, and your vote is the only way to apply that pressure.

[Aeronaut]

Wow, I really hate the color

I might just not use it tbh

[Aeronaut]

#43 moved my vote because I didn't like the direction Zekro's vote was leading to/didn't want to be part of a wagon on someone I wasn't 100% sure is scum. Generally standing by that decision bc I wanted to see if rb would continue with conversational/humour posts in lieu of scumhunting ones and the direction of #46 looks promising

Friend I'm wondering about you, what's your opinion on how things are going so far? I'm wondering because the only posts I've seen from you are ones that aren't giving any tells but a random vote/chipping in by giving neutral info

What do you mean exactly when you say, "I didn't like the direction Zekro's vote was leading to". Two votes is hardly a wagon and it's still quite early in the day. Unvoting rb seems to suggest you've already made your mind up about him. Is this so?

What? in his unvote of RB, he even said it was because he didn't like the wagon size, and then states reasons why he still wasn't sure about RB. If anything, that post is the opposite.

RB, we shouldn't lynch if we don't have any reason at all.

FOS: rb

This is pretty objectively wrong. If we never lynch anyone, then scum auto-win, e.g. why we do, indeed, have to lynch someone at some point.

Hello all! Glad to be replacing.

Hi TB!

Random voting is good. Random lynching actually helps the mafia, since it's a 2/9 chance we hit a mafia.

I assume you either meant Random voting is not good, or Random lynching helps the town. Either way, both of these statements are incorrect.

Liking Aero and End for town right now. But all can change.

Aero is viewing things from a town perspective,

I mean you're right, but have I done that looks town to you? At the point you'd posted this, I'd done like one serious post and it was a B- at best.

Hey, there is daytalk? This is not alignment indicative, since I replaced out. Just need to know.

Nope, no daytalk. There should be, though.

You shouldn't shitpost in a mafia game.

Lol ok well there's about fifteen million games on this site that prove otherwise.

He also seems to think that is a good idea to kill people for no other reason than to have fun.

What RB is saying is not that we should be random lynching, but that random wagoning is fine, being to add pressure and whatnot.

[Aeronaut]

If you read the sample PM for Mafia goon, it clearly says they can only talk at night.

I suspect you read this out of YOUR OWN ROLE PM

VOTE: ThinkBig

Booooo. This is reachy.

You have a bad reaction to me voting you, so my vote will stay for now.

"I wish to continue having my vote parked here for no reason"

He isn't even trying to put out content and his only vote is just a joke per his own statements.

But wouldn't that be similar to how you play half the time? How is it suddenly AI?

(If I say AI btw, I mean Alignment Indicative)

With the ThinkBig/ssbm thing I feel like Think's reaction is pretty town-y bc it's emotional and ssbm seemed to jump on that pretty quickly/opportunistically so I'm ?? on both of you atm. I'm thinking it

was

scumhunting on ssbm's part tho.

If you think that ssbm jumped on it opportunistically, wouldn't that be a more scum-driven response than a town one?

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

I disagree. Your vote on him was pretty baseless and opportunistic; whether you agree or not isn't what's important. What is important is the reaction, really, as you were saying.

Thinkbig saw that it was kind of a baseless reason to be parking your vote, and called you out on it. I feel like as town, this makes a lot of sense; a scum reaction probably would have been less about attacking/pressuring you and more about defending himself. E.g., it probably would have been a scum reaction if he was busy defending himself trying to prove that he just read the OP instead of his own PM.

town is hunting for scum, scum is defending themselves.

[Aeronaut]

@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

He's extremely null for me at the moment. I wanted to know if your initial vote was just a reaction test or if you thought the exchange was scummy? So I'm assuming that your vote on him right now is real? I'm willing to sheep.

You're willing to sheep? Why is that, if you think he's extremely null?

Friend_computer, zekromaster, Aeronaut: Tending towards scum
All three have confirmed participation but seem to be intentionally not posting. (Aeronaut claims he has exams). They may be scum because by staying quiet they're not drawing any attention to themselves, just waiting for someone to get lynched. It doesn't matter to scum who gets lynched (especially on Day 1) as long as its not them. They're content to let us talkative ones accuse and lynch each other.

I did have exams! They sucked!

Also, being the IC, staying quiet isn't really a viable strategy. In general too though, activity doesn't always equal alignment. It really depends on the player.

In this post, you mentioned that you think ssbm is town. How do you feel about his initial vote on TB (excluding the later reaction)?

[Aeronaut]

FOS: ssbm

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

Seriously? There are CLEARLY SAMPLE PMS ON THE FIRST PAGE.

I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town

My impressions so far:

rb: Tending towards scum.
I haven't seen anything serious from him. Mostly just jokes, "lol random" comments and calling people townie and scum without reason. I sort of get the feeling he is trying to hide by shitposting so much (though this could just be his playing style). His comments suggest he wants an early lynch. I feel this is a scum move. As a scum he wouldn't care who gets lynched on Day 1 as long as someone gets lynched quickly so we can move on to Night one, where the scum can kill who they really want.

He's most likely just shitposting for the sake of it. While this is disruptive for the town, I don't think he's doing this just because he's scum. Or he could be shitposting so we think he's just shitposting and not accuse him of being scum, but I find this really hard.

Sofiel: Tending towards scum.
Based on his unvote of rb. I think he was a little too quick to jump off the rb wagon. I think maybe he voted for rb to begin with to hide that rb and him are scum partners and then panicked when a wagon started behind rb. Could be something else too but the unvote has stuck with me as being odd.

I found it suspicious too. Nothing much to say on this read, I'm pretty much of the same advice.

ssbm_Kyouko: Tending towards Town
He seems to be poking and voting people simply to get a rise out of them to figure out what their alignments are.

Idem

Friend_computer, zekromaster, Aeronaut: Tending towards scum
All three have confirmed participation but seem to be intentionally not posting. (Aeronaut claims he has exams). They may be scum because by staying quiet they're not drawing any attention to themselves, just waiting for someone to get lynched. It doesn't matter to scum who gets lynched (especially on Day 1) as long as its not them. They're content to let us talkative ones accuse and lynch each other.

While I cannot speak for Friend_Computer and Aeronaut, I myself was just really busy in these days, I'm counting on being able to post more now that I've got no school to think of.

ThinkBig: Neutral
I was going to say town, but he got quite defensive when ssbm voted him, especially his counter vote of ssbm in #71. My impression is neutral till I see more posts from him.

Nothing to say

Lucca261: Neutral
Mostly because he's scumhunting. His sheep voting on ThinkBig while having a null reading is odd. He went from "I hated ssbm vote. everything about it" in #90, to agreeing with him with a sheep vote in #96.

I don't know how much one can take Lucca's scumhunting as a sign of not being scum, and I find this kind of behaviour suspicious.


I'm limiting myself to commenting the_end's reads, as I don't have anything new to add to the game, for now.

This post had three "

I agree

"s and one self defense for lurking. It's like when you get a bag of chips and it's mostly air.

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

I'm conflicted here, because I absolutely agree with this post, but it also looks like ssbm jumping off of that ThinkBig wagon ASAP because it sure was a bad look.

but i just want to point out as well, it could still be a scum move by Zekro to look town - scum do 'townlike' things all the time because they want to look town. I think you need to assess what Zekro's motivation is. if the_end is town, it's potentially a good move by scum Zekro - he looks good for getting an accurate townread and not being on the mislynch wagon.

so if you think that Zekro's read on the_end is really inauthentic - you should keep your vote there. i didn't mean for you to unvote, i just didn't really agree with your reasoning for him being scum. but often newer players can't really explain their reads, but they 'feel' bad about a certain action. Zekro's actions made you feel weird, so i think you should keep your vote and not be discouraged by me shooting down your reasoning. there's a lot of ways Zekro could be scum making that play.

this is going into wifom territory and getting real circular, but if you feel Zekro is scummy just vote - that's also how town should play

This whole interaction between RB and Sofiel makes them both look pretty town to me. I don't feel like RB scum would take this time to explain this in this much detail when he didn't have to, and I dunno Sociel's respond gave me happy vibes

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

[Aeronaut]

This is where I'm at.

{NT}Sofiel [S: 38*][T: 47, 116]
{NT}rb (SE) [T: 118]

{N}ThinkBig(SE)
{N}ssbm_Kyouko (SE) [T: 43][S: 75]
{N}lucca261 [T: 84, 89][S: 93*, 118*]

{NS}the_end [S: RL*]
{NS}Friend Computer [S: 101*]

{LS}Zekromaster [S: 41*, 103*]

Spoiler: ***

38* This kind of stuck me as scum feeling the waters to see what is ok/not ok to do.
41* Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.
93* willing to sheep
RL* Readslist; I really dislike how a lot the scum reads in this list, he later on sort of retracts by saying "I'm not sure"
101* I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town
103* This post had three "I agree"s and one self defense for lurking. Nothing post to look busy.
118* Baseless/meaningless questions

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

[Aeronaut]

I think this is the way to go.

VOTE: Zekromaster


So far, Zeke has 5 posts, and every single one of them is "I don't have enough information to do anything", which A) is deadass incorrect, there's five pages of people posting. I've managed to make a page on my own just replying to all of it. So yeah, there's enough information; B) Even if there isn't enough info, then do something to generate info. You could be pushing someone, asking questions, etc. and you aren't, sooooo

A good example of what I'm talking about here is in 41 when he mentions that he's just trying to look active (which granted idt it's indicative to say that, but it is to still literally do nothing anyway), and 103 where he has this post that takes up half my computer screen, that when it boils down literally just is him agreeing with everything The_End said.

So zeke is just sitting around being just active and agreeable enough. I see scum, there.

[Aeronaut]

im gonna cooperate with christmas pikachu

you too, christmas skull man

wow ur readslist even has a matrix

i dont like that >:|

I mean reloaded and revolutions were garbage, but I think the original still holds up

[Aeronaut]

I kinda want Sofiel to take some stronger stances though

I saw her initial push as town but the unvote so sudden wasn't really town and I don't like that she didn't reaffirm her stance when I encouraged her to. It's like she just sort of gave up and it feels scummy to me, like scum trying to push and being shut down and then returning to lurking.

Yeah. I don't know, it's kind of hard reading people based on how hard their stances are on D1 in a newby game though, because newbies are naturally pretty cautious at the start. I know I was, and I got scumread for it.

The difference I think is when they're actively trying to look busy.

Speaking of which, how do you feel about Zeke?

im gonna cooperate with christmas pikachu

you too, christmas skull man

wow ur readslist even has a matrix

i dont like that >:|

I mean reloaded and revolutions were garbage, but I think the original still holds up

u r gud at joekz pls b mi friend

my mum told me I shouldn't become friends with creepy christmas skull men

[Aeronaut]

Merry Christmas/Holidays people, i'll be back around tomorrow probs

[Aeronaut]

Hey people, reading once again .

[Aeronaut]

I'm also still inexplicably in the middle of holiday shenanigans (my family has a lot of December birthdays) but I still need to step up and contribute here. I assume it's the same issue with everyone else.

Thank you for the extension, tomorrow is my absolute maximum wait time, because then all these people will have finally gone home already

[Aeronaut]

@Sofiel - I jumped on it quickly because he overreacted to what appeared on the surface to be a weak vote. I had a reason to vote him but decided it would be better to see what he would do if I poked him.

I suspect you read that the mafia have no daytalk in your own role pm. Did you read my post?

I've played enough newbie games on here to know that scum team doesn't have day talk. Read the sample PM. You are grasping for straws in a very scummy way.

VOTE: ssbm

This is not a townie reaction to a single weak vote. If he were town he would ignore my vote because it poses no threat to him, because nobody would follow after a weak vote like that. Scum, however, are very paranoid of being lynched and will sometimes overreact to these kinds of votes. I think this is what he did, and that's further confirming my feeling that he is scum, which is why my vote will stay.

I disagree. Your vote on him was pretty baseless and opportunistic; whether you agree or not isn't what's important. What is important is the reaction, really, as you were saying.

Thinkbig saw that it was kind of a baseless reason to be parking your vote, and called you out on it. I feel like as town, this makes a lot of sense; a scum reaction probably would have been less about attacking/pressuring you and more about defending himself. E.g., it probably would have been a scum reaction if he was busy defending himself trying to prove that he just read the OP instead of his own PM.

town is hunting for scum,

scum is defending themselves

.

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

Scum aren't scum hunting; they're trying to look like they're scum hunting.

If it were me in TB's position, I would have absolutely been the first to call it out, because it is very reachy (if it wasn't a reaction test), especially being a newbie game where newbies will believe things that other players wouldn't. To me, no player would ignore that in the first place (in fact, I feel like him ignoring it would be a huge scum tell). Instead of ignoring it, I think it makes more sense to look at what his reaction to it actually was, which was an attack on not even you, but the shit argument.

I'm also generally pretty skeptical of "reaction tests" in things like newbie games, but that's probably more of a me problem. I just think it's so easy to try some shit push and hope for the best, and when it doesn't pan out just call it a reaction test.

What does Idem mean? "I don't even mind"?

Why would you unvote someone and not ask anyone else a direct question? Are you even trying to find scum? Do you have any reads of your own or are you just waiting for popular opinion to form so you can mold your reads to fit that?

VOTE: Zekromaster

I'm conflicted here, because I absolutely agree with this post, but it also looks like ssbm jumping off of that ThinkBig wagon ASAP because it sure was a bad look.

ThinkBig was my strongest SR at the time. This was much scummier than TBs reaction to my vote. If he had remained calm under pressure I would have looked elsewhere for a scummy player. What was so bad about voting TB? I explained the real reason in 81.

Explained above, but TLDR his reaction was the same reaction any player would have made. Scumreading him for it is just as reachy as the test was.

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

Well do you think that's a scum motivation? You could be right but I don't know if it's AI. If he's actually suspicious, wouldn't that be townie?

UNVOTE

Did not realize I was still on RV.

VOTE: sfm

Will come up with a readslist soon.

Doing a Post-By-Post, may take a while.

Currently think the_end is Null Scum.

Hi, my name is friend computer and I sure will do things soon! Also, here's me reiterating a generic universal read.

[Aeronaut]

K, so, for now my strongest town read is surely Aeronaut.

Why?

Sofiel and Kyouko are the most interesting, as some of their behaviour is pretty suspicious (Rapidly changing votes, heavily accusing people even at random) but they look to be genuinely scumhunting. I'd probably say leaning scum, with Sofiel looking more like a "suspicious town" and Kyouko looking more like a "townish scum".

I've literally never read a more fencesitty paragraph in my entire life.

the_end is also reading scum too much. It's a thing I only noticed when looking at his reads as a whole, instead that as single reads. He almost only scumreads, and as a single townread. This last thing is pretty suspicious, at least for me. I can see why one would've thought I was scum by seeing me agree with his reads, and I can see why I was wrong in leaning completely on them.

Is there anything else that looks scum to you about The_End besides this? This is just reiterating part of RB's scum case on him.

rb looks pretty townish too. He defended a town player (I'm pretty sure I'm town) and his shitposting is just how he plays, so it's not alignment indicative. Also, he didn't care one bit about votes aside from some shitposty comments. Which to me feels like he's innocent.
Nothing to say on lucca261, he's pretty much scumhunting but scumhunting by itself doesn't mean being town.
ThinkBig is absent, and also didn't post much. But his posts so fare are a bit on the scummy side.

What do you think about the TBvKyou reaction?

[Aeronaut]

forgot to answer to aero:

liking RB for town more and more.

@zekrom, if you had to bet the game on one player being scum, right now, who would you choose?
@sofiel, same question.
@friend, you got any real reasons to vote end right now or is the vote still random? because you fosed ssbm and rb, but instead of voting them, kept a random vote. why is that?
@ssbm, are you going to scumhunt at all?

i got a weird feeling about Sofiel's #113. I feel like he wanted to vote The_End, but didn't wanted to be the third vote on the wagon, so he voted Zekrom instead. The logic is weird. He thinks that pointing out his decision is opportunistic scum. But he didn't think I was scum for doing it. I feel like he was looking for an excuse for voting Zekrom.

--

UNVOTE: Think

keeping voting Think right now is useless, since he is going to be V/LA.

i'll unvote and wait for the answers.

The questions in the post seem kind of boring, random, and baseless. Why ask that to ssbm, when there's like half the game that's made a lot less of an effort to do anything?

my question to ssbm was because I wanted him to engage with me, since he ignored my vote.

what did you thought it was random about the questions? both zekrom and sofiel weren't voting, so I asked them who was their biggest scumread. from Sofiel, I wanted to know if it was still Zekrom, and from Zekrom, who it was, since he only copied End reads.

Friend was still voting the same guy since rvs. Wanted to know if he had develop a real read on whoever he was voting. (don't remember who it was right now).

Originally they seemed like there was nothing to them (e.g. you were just trying to look busy) but your recent postings kind of show me that you've got reasons to be asking them, so I feel kind of less concerned with it. Generally though, asking "are you going to scum hunt at all" or questions along those lines aren't going to really get you results, it's just going to start an argument. You can do stuff your own way obviously, but usually i like to be more to the point, and just say like "how come you ignored X".

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

If you're town, just because someone recognizes that you're town doesn't mean that they're not scum.

Hope everyone had a good Christmas.

I'll be sending out prods later today.

Huntress' christmas gifts to us are prods

I hope everyone had a great Christmas!

I'm catching up. Let me know if I missed anything.

This is where I'm at.

{NT}Sofiel [S: 38*][T: 47, 116]
{NT}rb (SE) [T: 118]

{N}ThinkBig(SE)
{N}ssbm_Kyouko (SE) [T: 43][S: 75]
{N}lucca261 [T: 84, 89][S: 93*, 118*]

{NS}the_end [S: RL*]
{NS}Friend Computer [S: 101*]

{LS}Zekromaster [S: 41*, 103*]

Spoiler: ***

38* This kind of stuck me as scum feeling the waters to see what is ok/not ok to do.
41* Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.
93* willing to sheep
RL* Readslist; I really dislike how a lot the scum reads in this list, he later on sort of retracts by saying "I'm not sure"
101* I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town
103* This post had three "I agree"s and one self defense for lurking. Nothing post to look busy.
118* Baseless/meaningless questions

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

I think I should clarify my readlist. When I say "Tending towards scum" I mean "NullScum" rather than "LeanScum". I stand by my scum reads. You've quoted me as saying, "I'm not sure", I don't think I said that anywhere. My reads aren't simple statements where I push a singular narrative of a player's alignment. I tried to reason a player's alignment from their "scum-like" actions and their "town-like" actions.

My issue with it though is that you had said they were leaning scum to you, and then you gave reasons why they could also not be scum. There's no strong stances in that list, and that looks incredibly shady to me.

[Aeronaut]

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.

What made you want to withhold those reasons? And what did you gain from the test?

I really think kyouko is a terrible leading wagon. can we not? ty

Ok you've said this twice; but why besides The_end having too many scum reads (that granted are really fence sitty) makes him a really good lynch today? Also Zeke's on that wagon which makes me really not want to be on that wagon.

Sorry guys, got a little busy this morning.

UNVOTE: ssbm

I ISO'd ssbm and am starting to get a slight TR on him.

My biggest SRs right now are the_end and computer.

What made you change your mind?

Hey people, reading once again .

Hey aeronaut, what are your thoughts so far?

WORKING ON IT!!!!!!!!111

In case you guys were wondering, my laptop got a liquid on it and it had to dry out.

Sorry!

What kind of liquid?

VOTE: Zekromaster

So I reread some old posts of mine, and some kyouko posts, and I can see that maybe I was overanalysing some stuff, especially the reaction test. I still think Kyouko is kinda scummy, but liked his interactions with me enough to unvote him and go to my other scumread.

I don't like Zekrom scumread of End. I feel like its inconsistent with his early game, and he doesn't believe it, just saw other people say it and repetead just to get under the radar. So I'm happy putting him at L2

Another way to say you're happy voting someone is by voting them.

[Aeronaut]

A question to everyone: In simple quick terms say who you support for the D1 lynch and why. I really want to hear from the zekromaster voters.

Zekro is engaging in a lot of LAMIST (Look At Me I'm So Town) posting. Specifically, he's contributed very little, and what he has contributed has been simply agreeing with other people, or hardcore fence sitting. The biggest examples of what I'm talking about are in 38, 41, 103, 120, and 148.

I'm still supporting Friend Computer because of the reasons I detailed previously in #168. I'm willing to change to some of my other scum-reads but I haven't seen anything which I've gotten such a strong feeling about so far so really want to see some more arguments. Generally, I'd rather have a lynch on someone who I read as neutral scum over leaning scum than a no lynch, and the deadline although extended is still super close.

As much as FC is being utterly useless, I also don't really want to lynch him today because A) it's going to give us minimal information and not much to work with tomorrow, B) he's likely to get replaced. Zeke is a better lynch in my opinion because he's posting more, but saying less.

[Aeronaut]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

oh boyyyyyyyyyy

[Aeronaut]

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

If you're town, just because someone recognizes that you're town doesn't mean that they're not scum.

What I meant is those 2 together aren't the scum

team

. I think 1 scum was on my wagon and 1 scum off it. Wrt to Lucca, I felt like he was towny because he looked like he was suspicious of me and trying to test me. Obviously, if he was testing me and now that I've admitted I noticed, he can't rely on the results, but I can rely on the test to TR him. The problem is with mixed signals. I can't be confident in that read on him.

Oh I see.

Friend Computer has literally just proven my feelings about him. He put the_end at L-1 based on general consensus which is opportunistic as hell, and has been posting really generic statements. That newsflash there's only two scum (the "too many scum reads" argument) seems to be his only reasons for voting for the_end which is a terrible argument because afaik good practice is to have double the scum reads of the amount of scum in-game. Seems to me like scum who got spotted and isn't a fan.

(I wrote this before Aero wrote his above post i.e. Aero postblocked me thanks )

@Aero

Zeke and FC seem to be buddying (both are using the same argument to vote against the_end) and I don't know if that's a slip up or not. What I do know is that my feelings abt FC were sorta confirmed when he put the_end at L1. I've not seen much more from Zekro and if we lynch FC today I'd think we could look at how the waters settle and look closer at Zekro tomorrow - but FC is so obvious & I can't look past that.

To be fair, everybody is using the same argument to be voting the end. It's not a bad argument, but what bothers me is that every single person is just parroting RB's original feelings towards him instead of really doing much else.

@rb

why doesn't that concern you at all?

[Aeronaut]

I'm gonna vote.

VOTE: the_end

Seriously? NEWS FLASH: THERE IS ONLY 2 SCUM!

oh boyyyyyyyyyy

Okay so who's the better lynch now, Zekrom or FC?

still Zeke

[Aeronaut]

I also refuse to sponsor a wagon with both Zeke and FC on it, especially after that l-1 vote which is really garbage

[Aeronaut]

Vote Count 1.11

Friend Computer (5) - Sofiel, ssbm_Kyouko, the_end, ThinkBig, lucca261 [LYNCH]

the_end (3) - rb, Zekromaster, Friend Computer
Zekromaster (1) - Aeronaut

Not voting (0) -


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Wednesday, 4th January 22.30. GMT, (in (expired on 2017-01-04 22:30:00)).

Hmm.. Well I feel that it's safe to say there was probably one scum off this wagon and one scum on. If I had to guess I'd say it's Zeke and TE.

bulletproof/doctor/jk?

i think it's a protective and that they protected mememememememe because if the_end is scum they want me dead but if the_end is town that's the perfect way to frame them, by killing town me and making it look like the_end wanted me dead

yes, we are in the agreements?

Yea. But do you think it's more likely that the_end is just scum or that someone is trying to frame him? Granted I feel like it sort of makes sense that scum would want you dead right off the bat since I feel like most people are town reading you anyway.

either that or they shot at aeronaut because they were scared of him, but i have a hard time seeing aeronaut as a protection choice by a doc/jk

yeah i wasn't too helpful yesterday.

I'll claim later if I have to. For now, he is conf town.

This should be the last note on the matter.

My lynch pool right now is zekromaster/the_end/sofiel

Could you tell me why Sofiel?

30 minutes left guys.

If Friend flips Town, this is scum.

not really, no-lynch is godawful and i've done the same thing

Not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the way that, close to the deadline, he knew that Friend would turn town. For all his posts at the game, except for the strange Zekrom vote/unvote, he was voting Friend. And then, on the end of the day, he starts planning for what happens when Friend is town? If you're so sure of the lynch like he say he is, you won't do this.

But I feel like most of that is negated because in this scenario, a town flip is better than us not lynching at all.

OK i agree with rb town but confirming Lucca? Explain?

stop pr baiting.

I'm assuming you did something to cause him to TR you unless he's an idiot cop, and I know he's not because I've read a game where he was cop

I'm not a cop.

I also don't think I've been a cop on this site.

TB I feel like you should stop talking about it though.

[Aeronaut]

I really feel like it's more likely that SSBM simply doesn't understand what most of those hints that TB is dropping mean more that he's baiting.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Zeke

He's been shifty all game, and if TB is saying what I think he's saying, the attempted kill on lucca makes more sense coming from him than TE. Having said that, I have to think more about who else could make sense in that scenario, because I don't feel like it's as simple as being Zeke and TE together.

[Aeronaut]

My problem right now is that besides those two, I'm basically null on on a lot of other people and that makes me uncomfy.

[Aeronaut]

ok why are you pushing this

[Aeronaut]

um no. They would be CCed almost immediately, or if they got to a point when we all eventually claim.

[Aeronaut]

There's not any, it's just stupid

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

I've got to finish up grading some papers tonight, but I'd like to look at everything that's happened again before I do anything dumb.

[Aeronaut]

Hi, I've had the flu and been in the ER since yesterday, and probably will be home tomorrowish.

I'm not sure abut a No Lynch at this point; I've got to relook at some of yesterday though, because I was pretty sure zeke was flipping red. Serves me right for being overconfident.

Basically No Lynching right now wouldn't be a smart play because we've now got a town-confirmed player in Lucca. All that no lynching is going to do is get him killed, which isn't helpful. Normally, I'd say we should so that we ended up with less options to choose from, but since we already have that, it doesn't make any sense to me.

[Aeronaut]

Having said that, we're now also in MYLO (Mislynch and Lose), in that if we get this wrong today, the game's over.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, since I don't think TB would lie about who he docced, since that was his role and all.

[Aeronaut]

Sofiel, the_end, ssbm_Kyouko, RB

[Aeronaut]

actually we can no lynch i guess, right now it's 4v2 which means that simply by voting for any player not themselves, town have a 40% chance of hitting scum (if you know you're town there's 5 other players, 2 are scum = 40%)

if we no lynch it's 3v2 which means that simply by voting anyone not themselves, town have a 50% chance of hitting scum

But this doesn't make any sense bc we have lucca who now can't be protected.

the only caveat is that I think it's best if cop claims TODAY not tomorrow otherwise tomorrow is gonna be a fucking claimfest by scum

Couldn't it also be a tracker...?

[Aeronaut]

I still don't know why lucca is conftown, someone tell me

TB protected lucca

[Aeronaut]

I'm also really not a fan of the tracker claiming right now because there's no scum dead yet and we have no hard clears as a result.

TruE?

I'd agree, except that a tracker claim would give us yet another confirmed townie, so we only have to choose between 4 and not 5.

[Aeronaut]

Alright, who do you think

[Aeronaut]

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, RB is the last PR, which you can probably guess from something he said on the last page.

[Aeronaut]

Which means we're between Sofiel, the_end, ssbm_Kyouko. I'm in the middle of catchup for a lot of stuff, but thinking it's te

more tonight

[Aeronaut]

I'd like to think that the crumbed doc would have died if i'd been scum

Also, rb, you realize that there's definitely more than one town PR, correct?

[Aeronaut]

That's a fair point. It would make sense based on him saying that TB should definitely keep protecting the same person.

[Aeronaut]

So, does me claiming or not makes any difference?

No.

[Aeronaut]

Yea, so despite RB's initial D1 stuff, I don't see much he's done in the way of solving the game. There were weak pushes on TE and a minimal amount of gameplay, but in the last game I played with him, he was this town-MVP player who solved the game almost immediately. This is the game I'm talking about.

I assumed he would eventually kick it into gear around D2 or today, but then I figured maybe he was a PR who was trying to lay low. If that's not the case, then I'm not seeing anything that makes him town.

[Aeronaut]

hi, I'll be here today, life's been a bitch moving back to school.

[Aeronaut]

Ok, hello people.

So, I'm going admit that I got really disenchanted with this game after having the flu for 4-5 days right in the middle of it, and I'm annoyed at myself because I'm in charge of keeping this game going as the IC, and should have kept it going during that time. Mainly, I was having a few second thoughts about the speed of zero's lynch yesterday but failed to do anything about it, and that's on me.

I have a few ideas of who I think could be pulling absolute bullshit here, but before I share those, I need to ask:


RB, why exactly are you so sure that SSBB is town? You spent the whole game telling us that he's town, he's town, ssbb is a bad lynch, he's town but you have yet to give any sort of reason.

I was willing to excuse that D1 just as far as gut reads, but now I'm curious where your head is that and why it's there.

[Aeronaut]

So, wait. Can everybody say their top scumread? I'm reading it wrong or everyone's top scumread is Sofiel. This concerns me.

Kyouko. I still want to hear RB's answer before I elaborate, though, because he has yet to explain it.

Aero 400

Can you tell me the number of the post?

post 161 is him crumbing

some

PR, e.g. why I hard townread him after that, and I believe even cited the post if you looked hard enough at my read list.

Generally, saying "I am definitely not going to be lynched today" is code for "I'm a PR and will claim it if necessary". I guess I'm the only one who caught it at the time.

[Aeronaut]

I don't see how;

So, as I've said, in a newbie game, there's no room for scum to fake claim a PR because it's far too easy to get CCed.

[Aeronaut]

I would.

Ssbm is just such a strong TR for me, I can't lynch there.

Alright, I'm pretty convinced of this now.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: RB

[Aeronaut]

So I'm almost 100% certain it's RB and ssbm here.

[Aeronaut]

As I said the other day, I should have stopped the Zekro lynch when I started having second thoughts, but I don't think I've explained why I've had second thoughts.

Basically, my suspicions of zekro throughout D1 were pretty well justified I thought after the attempted lucca kill; lucca spent a lot of that day scumreading him, so at that point I figured he was pretty obvious scum.

I gave it a second thought, though, because looking back, SSBB was Lucca's biggest scumread of the day, and that kill makes WAY more sense for him.

[Aeronaut]

I townread RB on day 1, and didn't really think to revisit him again, and that was really silly of me. Looking back, he should have been all over this game and instead he's been doing the bare minimum, making weak assumptions, being uninvested, etc.

And then, he keeps going on about how I'm suddenly scum to him, because I should understand that content from me is extremely important to winning this, and though it is, he's here purposefully not explaining his reads and not explaining his positions on ssbb_Kyurou who

very well

could be possible scum candidate from his perspective.

[Aeronaut]

Basically, rb has had this inexplicable townread on ssbm for the entire game, and the most he's given us even now is "He's just so obviously town duh!" which is useless to anyone but him.

[Aeronaut]

And if I'm wrong, then The_End tomorrow. I don't think it's possible that they're the same alignment.

[Aeronaut]

Oh, well I forgot we're in MYLO.

Ugh, well either way, any scumteam I see includes RB in it, and if I'm being honest, there's no way it's not rb/ssbm. This is pretty clear scumplay.

[Aeronaut]

Again bussing doesn't make sense here so I don't think rb can be scum here

VOTE: Aero
Maybe with the end, that post explaining Sofiel/rb team is a huge stretch

I'm honestly quite surprised you disagree with me so strongly about the scumteam being Sofiel and rb. The "Sofiel/rb" section of your rereadlist in 430 seems to agree with me. In that list you think Aero/Sofiel is a stronger team whereas I think rb/Sofiel is a stronger team. This is because I'm convinced rb is scum, and his pairing with Sofiel is more likely to me than his pairing with Aero.

This is also a pretty accurate post as to what I'm talking about.

[Aeronaut]

I townread RB on day 1, and didn't really think to revisit him again, and that was really silly of me. Looking back, he should have been all over this game and instead he's been doing the bare minimum, making weak assumptions, being uninvested, etc.

And then, he keeps going on about how I'm suddenly scum to him, because I should understand that content from me is extremely important to winning this, and though it is, he's here purposefully not explaining his reads and not explaining his positions on ssbb_Kyurou who

very well

could be possible scum candidate from his perspective.

you know what, when i mention that i'm busy IRL and that gets used as a scumtell against me - go fuck yourself.

You did the

same

thing to me. I had the flu for a week straight, and you were like "ah, Aero should KNOW that he's very needed in this game"

That's unwarrented and silly.

I would.

Ssbm is just such a strong TR for me, I can't lynch there.

Alright, I'm pretty convinced of this now.

can you please never IC a game again?

This is you slipping that you think I'm town, right?

Because if you actually thought I was scum, why couldn't this just be me being scum? You're saying here that I'm playing so badly and shouldn't be ICing, which would mean that you think I'm town playing badly.

[Aeronaut]

They're not proven false;

And no, it's not low; you say around and called me out saying "Aero is scum for not contributing" and that's like, your full reasoning. You're scum because you're saying it's fine for you to be scumreading me for it, but when I try to say the same for you, *suddently* it's not a valid argument.

P-edit: I still had the flu when I was home, so I don't know what you're trying to argue.

[Aeronaut]

Your case on me is literally that I wasn't active, so you're literally trying push a lurker lynch in MYLO.

That's just silly and not what a town mindset is

[Aeronaut]

Alright well, to me there is; forgive me if I find it hard to take your word for it :/

[Aeronaut]

so it's either te/aero or sofiel/aero. town!Aero wouldn't forget it's mylo and put rb at L-1, then point out it's MyLo and not unvote

Um, so you're saying that scum!aero would forget? You're really trying to paint that as alignment indicitave?

And no, I'm not unvoteing, because rb and you is the only option that makes any sense; it's certainly not The-end and RB and it's certainly not RB+Sofiel. If it were you and someone else, you wouldn't be defending this lynch so hard.

[Aeronaut]

SSBB was Lucca's biggest scumread of the day, and that kill makes WAY more sense for him

I would have killed you N1 because rb was defending me and you're the other experienced player. Killing off the most experienced players is standard strategy in newbie games because newbies have a harder time scumhunting.

Maybe the reason TB wasn't killed when you noticed his PR crumb is because you expected someone else might have noticed it and protected him? Scum can't have a roleblocker unless Lucca is faking Tracker when he's actually cop and I don't see any reason for him to do that. 2 Goon team would know it's either JK, BP/Tracker, or Doc/Tracker. Only a BP would soft their PR that way imo, and I think players as experienced as Aero or rb would draw the same conclusion I did if they were on a 2 goon scumteam. It makes sense to aim for someone else if you think the BP is softing. That would explain why TB wasn't shot despite Aero having noticed TB's PR softing. Aero as IC would definitely take charge over the decision of who to shoot when on a team with a newbie (Sofiel/the_end), so I'm going to comb over D1 for why Aero might have wanted to shoot Lucca

so, like you're proving why that wouldn't be the kill if I were scum this game.

You know I saw the crumb; it makes absolutely no sense to shoot someone who I didn't think was a PR over someone that I thought was.

[Aeronaut]

Lucca was far more of a threat to you than he was to Sofiel.

P-edit: when?

[Aeronaut]

I'm telling you that TB would be dead and gone. There is zero reason I would want to keep a crumbed PR around.

[Aeronaut]

I mean you're not convincing me otherwise, because I'm extremely sure, here.

If you really think you can sway the town, go for it, but in my mind, RB refusing to talk about you or his out-of-nowhere townread on you is damning. I've watched him play, this would have been a perfect town win had he been trying at all

[Aeronaut]

I'm telling you that TB would be dead and gone. There is zero reason I would want to keep a crumbed PR around.

This literally cannot be the case unless rb is currently being bussed.

Why?

[Aeronaut]

Also, cue him coming him and saying I WAS BUSY yada yada, great, we're all busy, but he's too good to have been this wrong all game.

[Aeronaut]

Because I townread both on day 1; why kill me on N1 when you could easily let me steer the town wrong?

[Aeronaut]

I'm the IC, most players are going to listen to me because they think that means something. If my reads were wrong, it makes a lot of sense for RB to say screw it, leave him there to confused them more.

[Aeronaut]

That's also why it makes sense that he was here as experienced scum; two brand new players would

definitely

have killed either RB or the IC on n1

[Aeronaut]

Because I townread both on day 1; why kill me on N1 when you could easily let me steer the town wrong?

You townread both of who?

I repeat, what was your question in 519 when you asked me "when?"

When did Lucca townread you on D1?

I guess I can go look but as far as I had remember lucca was SRing you and zekro d1.

[Aeronaut]

Because I townread both on day 1; why kill me on N1 when you could easily let me steer the town wrong?

You townread both of who?

I repeat, what was your question in 519 when you asked me "when?"

I townread you and RB on day 1, so there was no reason to kill me; if I'd been hard SRing him and you D1, I'd be gone.

[Aeronaut]

UNVOTE:

[Aeronaut]

As far as resistance to a sofiel lynch today, Lucca makes a pretty good point.

And as for Sofiel's willingness to jump on to FC, Zeke and then either RB or I today, that's an even better point. He's not really trying to figure stuff out for most of the days in the game, he's just sort of posting and jumping onto whatever

[Aeronaut]

Ugh I'm being hasty w/ RB and I shouldn't be.


Right now, though, I just feel like there's no reason I stay alive other than that I was blatantly wrong all game, and that really is bothering me.

[Aeronaut]

Because I townread both on day 1; why kill me on N1 when you could easily let me steer the town wrong?

You townread both of who?

I repeat, what was your question in 519 when you asked me "when?"

I townread you and RB on day 1, so there was no reason to kill me; if I'd been hard SRing him and you D1, I'd be gone.

This is where I'm at.

{NT}Sofiel [S: 38*][T: 47, 116]
{NT}rb (SE) [T: 118]

{N}ThinkBig(SE)
{N}ssbm_Kyouko (SE) [T: 43][S: 75]
{N}lucca261 [T: 84, 89][S: 93*, 118*]

{NS}the_end [S: RL*]
{NS}Friend Computer [S: 101*]

{LS}Zekromaster [S: 41*, 103*]

Spoiler: ***

38* This kind of stuck me as scum feeling the waters to see what is ok/not ok to do.
41* Ok... but you're going to efforts to show us that you're active, but aren't actually doing anything to help the game move forward.
93* willing to sheep
RL* Readslist; I really dislike how a lot the scum reads in this list, he later on sort of retracts by saying "I'm not sure"
101* I feel like this is somebody who read a lot of the last 2 or so pages, picked an argument, and then repeated it to look town
103* This post had three "I agree"s and one self defense for lurking. Nothing post to look busy.
118* Baseless/meaningless questions

Spoiler: Key

Conftown - {CT}

Town - {T}

LeanTown - {LT}

NullTown - {NT}

Null - {N}

NullScum - {NS}

LeanScum - {LS}

Scum - {S}

ConfScum - {CS}

I was definitely a null for you d1, you never shifted that to a TR, just double checked myself

Yeah, but my point was that I wasn't scumreading you or actively pushing you, which would be pretty good reason to keep me alive.

When did Lucca townread you on D1?

I didn't say he TRed me D1, I said he displayed a willingness to adjust his read on me.

Lucca also displayed willingness to alter his read on me during D1 while we had a very long discussion about my motives and how he was misinterpreting things. Why would I kill a towny that was reversing their SR on me?

Town players that are willing to reconsider when they're SRing town are dangerous to scum, that's another reason why a scumteam that

didn't

include me would target Lucca for the N1 kill.

This is where he showed such a willingness:

Spoiler: Progression of Lucca's read on me

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

I don't hesitate to say that at all. I was waiting to see if you were going to interact with me about my vote, but you isn't so interested. So, let's get going:

- My first reason to suspect kyouko was his vote at think. Not the vote itself (that I would hate if it was serious, but since it was a reaction test, it's ok), but the "case" he made on Think's earlier posts, compared to a response he gave me. I quote:

pedit:
@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

My point is: he had a real reason, even if he had a weak reason to vote him. his words. To me, it appears that reason he's talking about it's the answer to my question. But then, after voting him for the answer, he went there and posted a "case" based on his earlier posts, at #81. I don't get this. All of Think's posts were available for him to do that "case" earlier, when he voted him for the answer. So why he said his vote was a reaction test based only on the answer? Also, I thought he was cleverly asking me if I was open to a Think's lynch. So I went and voted for him.

The reason for the vote is easy. If he is town on that exchange with Think, and even later, with Zekrom, he seems to be the type of player who finds the tiniest crack, and pushes on it, to create interaction between players. So I went and voted for a null player. If you look at my post where I say I'm willing to sheep and call him null, it's a small post, with one line. I knew I was being scummy. I expected Kyouko, especially !townkyouko, to push on it, given that he seems to vote for people over the tiniest stuff, to get a reaction. But he only commented on it.

I also voted Think for his own reaction. I thought his reaction, over 1 vote, on the early stage of the game, to be weirdly big. But if someone voted me for the PM stuff, I think I would've been kinda mad, too. I can see this coming from both town and scum. So I voted him, to develop a better read on him.

---

The second reason that I suspect kyouko it's his change at voting. He, on #95:

I decided to vote him, but instead of explaining I decided to test him with the vote. My vote on him is real...

and on #102:

Also finish catch up and comment on my ThinkBig exchange

seemed both happy staying voting Think, and testing the waters for a possible wagon on him. But then, on #105 he suddenly changes his vote for Zekrom. for that, let's go to his answers to Aero:

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason". Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment.

Also, on this answer to Aero he seems very suspicious aboout Think, saying that the response to his vote was not towny. I had just voted Think. If you think a player response to his vote wasn't towny, when the same player gets another vote to react against, would you vote another player so quickly?

VOTE: Kyouko

---

going to say my thoughts on this page, as well as my reads on each player on another post.

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason". Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment.

VOTE: Kyouko

Yeah that's definitely not me saying I voted TB for his comment about daytalk directed at you. I told you my vote was a reaction test. I also told you I had a real reason to suspect him, but didn't tell you what it was in that post. My reason for originally voting him is in 81. The comment about daytalk was meant to bait a reaction out of him

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

What points to you think I'm misinterpreting? Only the PM vote? Or there is something else on the "case" I made on you that you think I was misinterpreting?

Not much has really happened but it's only page 7. That's a fair clarification. My wagon sux btw

Meh. The only scummy vote on your wagon, given what has ocurred on this page, is Friend, I think. I want an explanation from him ASAP.

--

@end, he voted for SSBM.

It's because people think I literally voted TB for reading his role PM, and not for the reasons detailed in 81
(I think)

What pings me a bit is that neither of the_end or zekromaster are on my wagon rn which makes me think they aren't the scumteam. Lucca looks probably the towniest vote on my wagon with those detailed explanations, but I think he's misinterpreting some key points due to the language barrier

What points to you think I'm misinterpreting? Only the PM vote? Or there is something else on the "case" I made on you that you think I was misinterpreting?

Gonna outline what I think you're misinterpreting below. Making this from phone so it may not be as well organized as it should be for a wallpost

I get the feeling lucca is very suspicious of me and hesitates to say it. I felt like he saw my reaction test and decided to try one of his own on me when he offered to sheep me on someone who he thought was null.

I don't hesitate to say that at all. I was waiting to see if you were going to interact with me about my vote, but you isn't so interested. So, let's get going:

- My first reason to suspect kyouko was his vote at think. Not the vote itself (that I would hate if it was serious, but since it was a reaction test, it's ok), but the "case" he made on Think's earlier posts, compared to a response he gave me. I quote:

pedit:
@Lucca - As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason. I was just about to ask you what you thought about that exchange. Do you think ThinkBig has been so towny this game that my vote should not be on him?

My point is: he had a real reason, even if he had a weak reason to vote him. his words. To me, it appears that reason he's talking about it's the answer to my question. But then, after voting him for the answer, he went there and posted a "case" based on his earlier posts, at #81. I don't get this. All of Think's posts were available for him to do that "case" earlier, when he voted him for the answer.

So why he said his vote was a reaction test based only on the answer?

Also, I thought he was cleverly asking me if I was open to a Think's lynch. So I went and voted for him.

The reason for the vote is easy. If he is town on that exchange with Think, and even later, with Zekrom, he seems to be the type of player who finds the tiniest crack, and pushes on it, to create interaction between players. So I went and voted for a null player. If you look at my post where I say I'm willing to sheep and call him null, it's a small post, with one line. I knew I was being scummy. I expected Kyouko, especially !townkyouko, to push on it, given that he seems to vote for people over the tiniest stuff, to get a reaction. But he only commented on it.

---

The second reason that I suspect kyouko it's his change at voting. He, on #95:

I decided to vote him, but instead of explaining I decided to test him with the vote. My vote on him is real...

and on #102:

Also finish catch up and comment on my ThinkBig exchange

seemed both happy staying voting Think, and testing the waters for a possible wagon on him

. But then, on #105 he suddenly changes his vote for Zekrom. for that, let's go to his answers to Aero:

Thinkbig may have disagreed with why I was SRing him, but I don't think his response to my vote was towny at all. A town reaction would be to disregard something that nobody else would follow. I feel like nobody is reading the entirety of that exchange, because you're probably the third person who thinks my original reason for voting TB was actually because I thought he read about daytalk in his own role PM. I explained the reason I voted him after I was done testing him. Also I strongly disagree with the bolded, if scum just defends themselves and never hunts for "scum" they would lose a lot more games than they do

That's not true. I asked you if it was a reaction test, or if you had voted Think seriously for his comment to me. Your answer: "As for whether my vote was a reaction test: yes it was, but I had a real reason to suspect him, it was just a weak reason".

Here is you clearly saying that you voted him for that comment

.

Also, on this answer to Aero he seems very suspicious aboout Think, saying that the response to his vote was not towny. I had just voted Think. If you think a player response to his vote wasn't towny, when the same player gets another vote to react against, would you vote another player so quickly?

VOTE: Kyouko

---

going to say my thoughts on this page, as well as my reads on each player on another post.

Going to address the bolded in order.

• My vote was a reaction test because I decided to withhold my reason for voting him when I voted him. I had already noticed the posts I quoted in 81 when I pushed on TB. I didn't come up with those reasons after seeing a bad reaction to my vote.
• 102 was directed at the_end who had posted something on a partial catch-up up to page 3 I believe. I told them to finish their catch-up and comment on my exchange because they were the player I thought TB was chainsawing for, and I wasn't sure if it was because they were scum together or if it was TB trying to pocket the_end. the_end put gave weak stances on both of us that implied he either didn't fully understand my 81 or hadn't read it. I wanted to hear what he thought of my accusing TB of chainsawing him, so I told him to finish catching up and then comment on it. And of course I was happy voting TB at the time, he was my top SR at the time.
• That was not me clearly stating I'd voted him for the comment about daytalk, that was me explaining in my answer that your question wasn't worded correctly because the answer wasn't as simple as the closed-ended question suggested. I clarified that I
  both
  had a reason to vote him
  and
  that my vote was reaction testing him.

VOTE: Zekromaster

So I reread some old posts of mine, and some kyouko posts, and I can see that maybe I was overanalysing some stuff, especially the reaction test. I still think Kyouko is kinda scummy, but liked his interactions with me enough to unvote him and go to my other scumread.

I don't like Zekrom scumread of End. I feel like its inconsistent with his early game, and he doesn't believe it, just saw other people say it and repetead just to get under the radar. So I'm happy putting him at L2

my second readslist:

TOWN
- aeronaut: liking his posts. he is seeing this game from a town point of view, and is trying to look for scum. liked his exchange with Kyouko, and he seems to be effectively reading the thread and trying to look for scum, instead of just asking questions without any followup.
- end: I'm at the point where i'm thinking end's wagon was clearly a mislynch bait. he is clear-headed, analyse things and seems to think for himself, without sheeping other player thoughts.
- rb: after the strong start, he seemed to stopped scumhunting, and I don't know why his vote is still on end. he could be more present. I feel like his posts are asking why kyouko is the leading wagon, and trying to lynch end.
- sofiel: mostly by POE. sofiel stepped up. his posts seem to be looking for scum. but his #220 concerns me. especially where the part where he says: "hey, if Friend doesn't work tonight, let's look at Zekrom tomorrow" this is lining up lynches, and feels like scum that knows friend will flip town.
- think: his vote on end concerns me, and the unvote exactly when things started to change makes me feel uneasy. he is going with the flow.
- friend: his wagon makes me think he is townier. it feels like he made a bad vote, and now scum are trying to use the vote to make a counterwagon to zekrom.
- kyouko: still think he's scummy, but he's not getting lynched tonight. his posts feel like a mixed bag, and he seems to change wagons everytime the wagon he is is gaining force. that's a strange mindset for a town player.
- zekrom: everything makes sense if he's scum. he's coasting, trying to look town, parroting other people opinions...and it's crazy how much unspoken resistance there is to his wagon.

---

@zekrom, what is your view on the friend vote right now?
@friend, any reasons for your vote at end beside the readlist?
@end, can I interest you with a Zekro lynch?
@aero, what's your read on Kyouko?

By the end of the day Lucca was reconsidering his SR on me to the point that he wasn't willing to lynch me today because I had a strange mindset for town

I mean, every town player should be willing to reconsider stuff.

You're right, though. In my mind lucca had been hardSRing you all game, and it was more leaning null. There wasn't any point where he was like "I will not lynch this person" which would have made me think that it couldn't include you, though.


P-edit I'm DOING it Gawsh

[Aeronaut]

Sofiel, can you tell us your reads as they stand right now?

[Aeronaut]

Why again could it not be TE and RB?

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, that kind of makes a lot of sense to be honest.

He could be scum with anyone but RB.

[Aeronaut]

Oh fuck we have 28 minutes

VOTE: Sofiel

Better than nothing I suppose :/. Hoping you're right and not just scum.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah if sof's scum, I'd say it's t_e tomorrow.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: sofiel

[Aeronaut]

It's been fun.

I want to say to all of the newbies in this game, I did not play a good game as scum, nor would it have been good as town; it was mostly due to me being sick, but much more with the fact that being an IC as scum brings up a lot of ethical questions that I had a little trouble with, because I'm supposed to be teaching you guys, but also playing to my wincon.

I'm gonna sit down and talk about it some more later on.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah I made a lot of mistakes @think and I'm going to kind of go into them in detail later, but my biggest was that I wanted to let TE make the kill for himself instead of steamrolling him, but I definitely should of put a lot more input in.

[Aeronaut]

Yeah, so generally if there's a player that a lot of players think is scum (Like TE) but nobody actually ends up voting them, that probably means they're definitely scum, because their teammate(s) are either noncommital to it or are actively derailing it.

[Aeronaut]

My other backburner plan was to be vague on Sofiel to make it look like they were with me, which sort of worked a little bit. Other than that, I was trash.

[Aeronaut]

Good game guys. I played really bad at D3. I wanted End lynched, but was too non-comitted to it to work.

But it was nice playing with you guys.

You played fine, best player on D3

[Aeronaut]

yeah RB you had us pegged p quick