Mini 1853: Trial of the Evoker [Game Over]

[BATORU]

Urgh sorry I kinda ended up rambling here instead of hydra chat since I was asked for my thoughts

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Will have more thoughts over the weekend but for now I still FoS Aj. Ironstove was still playing to his wincon all game despite going off the deepend at the end, and that wincon apparently included lying about his spells.

That would be positing that Aj roleblocked Dunnstral using a spell, though, and caused a no kill as his partner. If you were going to do that wouldn't you go for roleblocking him and having another partner do the kill?

I mean, if he didn't roleblock him and instead no kill gambited, we'll see it with the flip, that's why I specifically asked if it was a spell or an ability. It's too easy a lie to be caught out on.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

the vca seemed to be more clearing of BAT than anything though

Um, how? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're meaning here.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

the vca seemed to be more clearing of BAT than anything though

Um, how? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're meaning here.

~Ruko

Not sure whether you saw that, drealmerz.

~Ru

[BATORU]

tonally, BTD feels like scum here.

Explain this? You were against pushing BTD early D1, and this is a weird flip from that.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

@BTD what's your read on NC?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Still, its probably a good idea to not give it to whomever eats a bullet at night. it is still a fruit vendor

I've never understood this. What's the use of a fruit vendor?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

So I was in the middle of a response to drealmerz when the thread got locked and meh, not sure it's even relevant rn but I decided to finish up and post it anyway.

Spoiler:

the vca seemed to be more clearing of BAT than anything though

Um, how? I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're meaning here.

~Ruko

Not sure whether you saw that, drealmerz.

~Ru

thanks

I think I might have and forgotten - it's because you're green in the lists (kidding)

hmmm, actually I've changed my analysis (thanks) because looking at it now it seems pretty damning of you, hahha - like you wanted it to look good for you, and to me that looks fishy

Nos is pushing the Sondam wagon while you are on Nos and you stay on Nos a while while ppls are trying to grow that sondam wagon alllll fuggin Day (scum like long D1s)

you unvote and stay off wagons until you join the GE wagon, the counterwagon to sondam - then hammer sondam after enough goes on and we're down to it

scum probably wouldn't mind sondam staying in the game honestly, so probably only 1 on it, 2 if you are scumhammerer

D2 you help momentum buildon the Nos wagon (me and dunn begin, then you bring it heat) - then you get off and stay off, and it builds, and then are voting WITH nos on the Dunn wagon, far away from the Nos wagon, like you know it's going to flip green

*shrug*

I'd have to go back and look, do you remember when you stopped SRing Nos?

Had myself in the green to help me do my own analysis. Not sure if that's what you were referring to here with making myself look good?

I wanted our vote on pisskop most of early D1, but Tama found his tone townie. I liked him a lot more later when he started actually doing things, and disliked the Gamma push against him and the jump on a scumslip of Dunnstral's (which I guess in retrospect actually

was

a scumslip). In my experience, people who tend to push on things as slips when they aren't necessarily tend to be scum, which was a lot of the basis for my Gamma push, along with knowing that gerry tends to drop off the face of the planet whenever he's town because he prefers scum, and Maria's scum play to date has failed to impress me.

Gamma wagon felt pretty much non-existent when I tried to push it as the counter to Sondam, it was kinda dying out. I was making a last push because having played with both heads of that hydra both on and off-site I wasn't confident in a scumflip there where I was confident in one from Gamma. Yup, I hammered Sondam in the end. With 5 minutes left to us having a no lynch. No lynching D1 is really bad for town, because we're handing the flow of early game information to scum. I'd rather hammer a townread and pray to Xova I'm wrong.

The Nos vote was our mutual compromise as he was my 2nd highest scumread, and Tama's 2nd highest (her strongest was ironstove but I was townreading him for the "lynch me then lynch Frozen" thing). Vote didn't move because Nos didn't really

do

anything. I'm pretty sure I explained a lot of that D2 as well during the 1v1 when trying to sort with Fire why he was townreading Nos & my reasons for scumreading him. Unvoted D1 when Nos gave something I could actually class as content, and I realized I was tunneling so I wanted to do a reread, then family issues came up and I had to V/LA a bit. Tama didn't want to vote without us both being on board, so she waited. When I came back it was read the past 30 pages and choose a lynch.

D2 I got off the Nos wagon because I disliked yours and NC's jump on, and one of my strongest TRs who has played with Nos before wasn't certain of him being scum. I wanted to talk to him and figure shit out. I reviewed the game I asked him to link where he said Nos doesn't have the emotional range as scum and found he was right when Nos made that AtE post. If you're asking where I stopped null/scum reading him and started TRing him, that's where.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

If you ever role FV ad are not compulsive its slightly anti-town to use it

So why wouldn't you be trying to send it to whoever might be the nightkill to get rid of it? Or did you mean that's what the pingers should be aiming to do?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

of course, personality-through-meta-reading is a strength of mine

If this is true, then why didn't you dive that Nos game that Fire linked for me when I was trying to do the same?
Why haven't you done a dive on any of BTD's games to know his low activity is merely indicative of BTD still being in control of his own account?

I feel like there's a clear disparity between what you're saying and how you're acting.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

right, Aj wasn't pinged before his reveal that the redirect ability was a lie, so it doesn't matter.

pedit: right, thanks.

I believe AJ did say that Gamma pinged him?
There was also another ping floating around though I think.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

if you think I'm wrong, tell me why

if you think somenoe else is more likely scum, make a case, I'll listen

Why would scum!BTD admit to doccing Dunnstral?
Why would scum!BTD, with daychat with Dunnstral available, then try to ask Dunn who he used the spell on

only to have Dunnstral not respond

?

The italics is the important bit there. If it were a calculated move by the scumteam then you'd have Dunn clear/condemn someone with his response. He didn't.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

If you ever role FV ad are not compulsive its slightly anti-town to use it

So why wouldn't you be trying to send it to whoever might be the nightkill to get rid of it? Or did you mean that's what the pingers should be aiming to do?

~Ruko

OH NVM I JUST REALIZED it's because it messes with any potential investigate results

god I'm dumb.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

@drealmerz the way I see it so far is your case is basically "Fire died suspecting BTD and BTD doesn't post often"

is there more to it than that?

or worse, he's one of those ppl who thinks he does clever things and they are derps

I mean... that's how I viewed it from a town!BTD perspective trying to get confscum to slip up... They would have had a whole night phase to discuss what they were going to do when the next day started, so the move to try to "trick" Dunnstral is really weird if you're looking at it from a scum pov there. It requires a lot of jumping through hoops.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

tonally, BTD feels like scum here.

Explain this? You were against pushing BTD early D1, and this is a weird flip from that.

~Ruko

what does BTD's tone from today have to do with an

early day 1 read

? i'm saying he sounds like scum to me. i wouldn't push him for it.

I'm not sure you actually want me to answer that.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

what does that mean?

if you're scumreading me, then you should answer if it would further that.
if you're not scumreading me and it's just something i don't understand, then consider me flummoxed.

I don't even know anymore all my reads might be even more fucked than I thought. I thought your early d1 read was more than an early d1 read.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

piss has zero spells atm. why?

also i dont know who has the hood rn. ehoever btd gave it to

I thought you were a neighborizer? It was a spell?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

dreal: i understand why you voted BTD there. however, i'd suggest looking elsewhere. i'd prefer not to explain why at this time.

Uhhh you can't see why I might read this as more than just an early TR?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Yeah the NKA there is bad. If I were scum with BTD6 I'd be kinda confident in his death anyways and focus on higher priority targets.

The only thing I draw from the NK is BATOROU is still here....

your point?

-tama

[BATORU]

Hey sorry I'll get to this. I need to reread and do combined isos and double check the vote counts. Need to hard reset on reads since I also thought it was a potential mason soft. I'm just...lazy right now.

Current issues:
I really hate how AJ keeps throwing shade at our slot without any real follow up or even a vote. He did this when he first replaced in too, and iirc avoided making a substantial comment on the dunn/nos 1v1 that was going on by doing so. The only thing that gives me pause here is the blocking thing in Dunn's spellbook.
Prism looked bad with my VCA but I suspect that might be wrong because Fire came to different conclusions from it. I kind of agree with NC about using another game to read someone being more likely to come from town. NC pointing that out is probably more likely to come from town?
As far as the current 1v1 I'd prefer drealmerz lynch of the two. I think he's pushing entirely NAI stuff and I felt like he was buddying Fire quite a bit (one thing that comes to mind was the reaction to the beeboy kill). The moment Fire sort of started gaining paranoia on drealmerz he was nightkilled, and the push out the gate for BTD's head felt fake tonally.

I want to do a reread to see if any of these make sense as a team though. And also to re-evaluate reads on BTD and NC. But yeah, that's where I'm at currently.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Spoiler: D1

Dunnstral

(3):

Nosferatu

, pisskop,

Sondam

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Fire Assassin

Wisdom (2):

Prism,

Dunnstral

Not Chara (1):

BTD6_Maker

Nosferatu

(1):

ironstove

ironstove (1):

Mega Frozen

Not Voting (3):

drealmerz7, Not Chara,

BATORU

Sondam

(3):

Wisdom, Fire Assassin, Not Chara

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

,

Sondam

Mega Frozen

(2):

BATORU

, Prism

Not Chara (1):

BTD6_Maker

Nosferatu

(1):

ironstove

ironstove (1):

Mega Frozen

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

drealmerz7 (1):

Dunnstral

Fire Assassin (1):

pisskop

Not Voting (0):

ironstove (4):

Mega Frozen

, pisskop, Fire Assassin,

Dunnstral

Mega Frozen

(3):

Prism, BTD6_Maker, ironstove

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Not Chara

Dunnstral

(1):

Sondam

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

drealmerz7 (1):

Nosferatu

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

ironstove (3):

pisskop, Fire Assassin,

Dunnstral

Gamma Emerald

(3):

Prism, BTD6_Maker, ironstove

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Not Chara

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

drealmerz7 (1):

Nosferatu

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

pisskop (1):

Sondam

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

ironstove (3):

pisskop, Fire Assassin,

Dunnstral

Sondam

(2):

Wisdom, Not Chara

BTD6_Maker (2):

drealmerz7,

Sondam

Gamma Emerald

(1):

BTD6_Maker

drealmerz7 (1):

Nosferatu

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Prism (1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

Sondam

(5):

Wisdom, Not Chara,

Dunnstral

,

Nosferatu

, BTD6_Maker

ironstove (2):

pisskop, Fire Assassin

BTD6_Maker (2):

drealmerz7,

Sondam

Wisdom (1):

Gamma Emerald

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Prism (1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

Not Voting (0):

Sondam

(5):

Wisdom, Not Chara,

Dunnstral

,

Nosferatu

, BTD6_Maker

ironstove (2):

pisskop, Fire Assassin

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

Wisdom (1):

Gamma Emerald

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

Not Voting (1):

Sondam

Sondam

(5):

Not Chara,

Dunnstral

,

Nosferatu

, BTD6_Maker, pisskop

Wisdom (2):

Gamma Emerald

,

Sondam

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

Nosferatu

(1):

BATORU

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

Not Voting (0):

Sondam

(4):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker, pisskop,

Nosferatu

Wisdom (2):

Gamma Emerald

,

Sondam

Nosferatu

(2):

BATORU

, Prism

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

Dunnstral

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

drealmerz7

Sondam

(3):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker, pisskop

Not Chara (3):

Fire Assassin,

Gamma Emerald

,

Nosferatu

Wisdom (2):

Sondam

, drealmerz7

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

Dunnstral

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Dunnstral

(3):

Not Chara, pisskop,

Gamma Emerald

Not Chara (2):

Fire Assassin,

Nosferatu

Sondam

(2):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker

pisskop (1):

Sondam

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

drealmerz (1):

Wisdom

BTD6_Maker (1):

drealmerz7

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Dunnstral

(3):

pisskop,

Gamma Emerald

, drealmerz7

Sondam

(3):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker, ironstove

Not Chara (2):

Fire Assassin,

Nosferatu

pisskop (1):

Sondam

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Sickofit1138

Gamma Emerald

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Sondam

(4):

Dunnstral

, BTD6_Maker,

Nosferatu

, pisskop

pisskop (4):

Sondam

,

Gamma Emerald

, drealmerz7, ironstove

Not Chara (1):

Fire Assassin

Nosferatu

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Sickofit1138

Gamma Emerald

(1):

Not Chara

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Sondam

(3):

Nosferatu

, pisskop, Not Chara

pisskop (2):

drealmerz7, BTD6_Maker

ironstove (2):

Gamma Emerald

, Fire Assassin

Not Chara (2):

Dunnstral

,

Sondam

Gamma Emerald

(1):

ironstove

Dunnstral

(1):

Prism

drealmerz (1):

Sickofit1138

Not Voting (1):

BATORU

Sondam

(5):

Nosferatu

, pisskop,

Dunnstral

,

Gamma Emerald

, Prism

Gamma Emerald

(4):

ironstove, drealmerz7,

BATORU

, Not Chara

pisskop (2):

BTD6_Maker,

Sondam

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

Prism (1):

Sickofit1138

Not Voting (0):

Sondam

(7):

pisskop,

Dunnstral

,

Gamma Emerald

, Prism,

Nosferatu

, Not Chara,

BATORU

pisskop (3):

BTD6_Maker,

Sondam

, Sickofit1138

Gamma Emerald

(2):

ironstove, drealmerz7

ironstove (1):

Fire Assassin

Not Voting (0):

Spoiler: D2

Nosferatu

(3):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7,

BATORU

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

, pisskop

Not Voting (6):

Sickofit1138, Not Chara, Prism, ironstove, BTD6_Maker, Fire Assassin

Nosferatu

(4):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7, Not Chara, BTD6_Maker

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

, Fire Assassin

Aj The Epic (1):

pisskop

Fire Assassin(1):

Aj The Epic

Not Voting (3):

Sickofit1138, Prism,

BATORU

Nosferatu

(5):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7, Not Chara, BTD6_Maker, Fire Assassin

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

,

BATORU

Aj The Epic (1):

pisskop

Fire Assassin(1):

Aj The Epic

Not Voting (2):

Sickofit1138, Prism

Nosferatu

(6):

Dunnstral

, drealmerz7, Not Chara, BTD6_Maker, Fire Assassin, pisskop

Dunnstral

(2):

Nosferatu

,

BATORU

Fire Assassin(1):

Aj The Epic

Not Voting (2):

Sickofit1138, Prism

Need to post before looking it over from my main. Hydra is on a light theme, colors are hurting my eyes.

~Ruko

Spoiler:

Dunno yet, light background on hydra made it hard to figure anything out while previewing here so I'm looking it over on my main, which uses the default ms background. So far I've seen you and NC were on Dunn for a fairly long time D1. The early Mega Frozen wagon is interesting because as soon as it started to gain traction a wagon on the ironstove slot shot into play. Mega Frozen was already voting ironstove, so that was pisskop, fire, and dunnstral.

I mentioned D1 to Tama that if Mega Frozen was town then the counterwagon that shot up was more likely to be from town. It wasn't anything solid without flips though, and then I forgot about it. I think Dunn might have seen a good opportunity to push through a lynch there, which makes ironstove slot town? But I feel like that's kinda useless as far as what we can draw from that since that's AJ slot and he claimed to have roleblocked Dunn last night. The only other thing is whether more than one scum hopped on there, which I don't see as likely, because if I remember that was 3 votes in quick succession, and scum don't like to bunch up I think?

So far I'm seeing piss, NC, Fire more likely town, with the least confident being NC, as it hopped off when the Dunn wagon started to gain traction. Prism also was a lone vote on Dunn for a long time, and I'm not sure if that could have been a possible distancing move while letting town implode? drealmerz hopped on briefly before the Dunn wagon collapsed and seemed to move on to pisskop, and I'm not sure about that move either.

I need to double check back after the Dunnstral push on D1, because you went from voting him to voting next to him on the Sondam wagon, and I can't remember how that happened.

I'm not sure if 2 scum on, 1 off for the final would be accurate or not. We know the counterwagon was on town so I'd imagine scum would be spread out? If so, my main fos there would actually be Prism based off the VCs alone.

I don't really know if I'm doing it right, though. I wasn't actually taught VCA, it's just more what I've picked up by watching some games mhsmith was in so far.

~Ruko

You're talking about where you were on Dunnstral after his wagon fell apart and other wagons were looking likely to head through to a lynch? That's kind of the basis of my FoS along with the distance from him on the final Sondam wagon. You haven't read up?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I mean.. I did say I needed to reread and look at combined isos along with go over the VCs I colored again because I had thoughts about the gamestate that have since been proven wrong, and macro level analysis can only go so far. I'll try to be less lazy and actually look things over tomorrow/over the weekend to sort things out properly.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

VOTE: drealmerz (both heads agree)

-tama

[BATORU]

Honestly, drealmerz, if you're town the issue here is I don't trust you. And I don't trust you to know the difference between shit that is NAI and AI in lylo. Your case on BTD boils down to low activity (which some people just have because of RL stuff or multiple games) and Regardless of your flip I feel like you're the only lynch for today. I really think BTD is town. So if you're town give me your case. Because currently I don't believe your read on him is genuine. I don't believe your read on me is genuine. Talk to me, man.

What was the spell you got?
What slip are you talking about? Why do you think BTD is lurking instead of keeping with his usual activity levels?
Who do you think is partnered with BTD and why?
Who would be scum if BTD flipped town?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

wait you claim loved through a spell?

Also yes I believe that BTD is more likely town than you. I don't think he's been lurking any more than he usually does in a game. People have real life to attend to and can't be on a forum all the time. I don't think that should be factored in to reading someone when they have a meta that proves they're always low content.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

If you're town, you're not helping. Also, why did you have Fire as strong town as you did? You were buddying up to him because you strongly thought he was town, correct? What exactly made you believe in that to that extent?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

You've still not answered any of my questions.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

if there's something wrong with the plan i'll hear it.

That depends on the answer to the following.

You didn't understand Soi's post about loving you. Did you not receive a spell last night?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I've answered every single one of those in previous content

Then I'm still not following as clearly as I could be and want you to spell it out to me.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Oh, so it wasn't a redirect. That was my main concern since we still don't know if scum have passive abilities like Sondam had (which I read as a UB) like a roleblocker or redirector or something since pk said he was redirected on to soi with the alert thing.
The main thing I think is just to know the target received it.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

From what Ive tracked, the only roles still floating around are 2 alerts and 1 neighborhood and a loved.

BTD claimed to have sent Dunnstral a doctor spell as well, which we should assume scum have been passing between themselves I think?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

NC why did you make drealmerz loved if you were still scumreading him? I can't figure out in what universe you make someone loved, and therefore harder to lynch, if you think there's a decent chance they're scum.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I cant win with you can i.

At least I think youre transparent, which is good?

would someone who isn't pisskop please tell me if i'm actually making no sense. i don't think i am, but who knows anymore.

I think he was just reiterating that you don't think he's scum with drealmerz in different wording? I don't think it was implying a traitor?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

drealmerz I'm pretty sure every point you've leveled at BTD we've actually discussed, and I've proven you wrong on. I've just been through your ISO and you've been pushing BTD the whole time.

NC, you posit that Dunn/PK is possible after the shitshow D1 where pk pushed Dunn and was part of the early wagon on him, Dunn making PK hated D2, then PK making Dunn hated D3 (granted this actually probably means nothing considering Dunn was already going down, except for the fact that pk removed the hated spell by doing that for ? reasons)?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Are you able to use any of your spells during the day whenever you want, NC? This is important given what you claimed to have.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

no char, you minced words and im not the only one who found it repulsive.

BATORU, do you find me repulsive?
and yes pisskop, steal. did you not read my claim.

Don't drag me into this, it feels like it's getting personal :/ I kinda want it toned down a bit.

yes, you caught me. why won't you engage with my point about voting Nosferatu by following fire?

Your point... *grumble grumble* I was the first to bring that up. My god, now I know how it

Chara what's the name of your ability?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I need to go out for a bit but don't use it yet. I have thoughts.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Chara you still here?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Is your passive to just use it during the day, or can you use at night as well whenever you feel like it?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Right now, not sure. I kind of suspected you might be scum with drealmerz with the way today has gone. But I don't know why you would have claimed the Arcane Theft as scum instead of keep it hidden, and it makes a lot more sense why you put the loved on him if you thought he could have been hoarding the doctor spell as scum so you could use it.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I was trying to get a hold of Tama to bounce something off her.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I'm just going to take the leap and trust you here. Use it on us real quick? Don't out the result. You won't lose the spell.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

My hydra partner is doing her amazing disappearing act that she keeps doing on me so whatever. She can bitch at me later if I'm being stupid here.

[BATORU]

Yeah there's a specific reason I've been questioning you on this. It'll make sense once you use it on us.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Alright, so we're on the same page now hopefully.

And Nahdia now hates me

Your top 2 picks were drealmerz and pk yeah? Or did that change? If you were to choose one which would

you

like to do? You're basically a daycop today as far as we get a doc ability and it's confscum I think, because I'd imagine town would have claimed it by now. If you're town then we can potentially solve the game through doing this I think? Assuming you understand what happened.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

Either because you don't read the thread and so your responses to everything seem fucking half baked because of it (no offense man, but this is the feeling I'm getting so far) or because he's scum trying to keep his options open on as many people as possible for lylo.

@drealmerz give me an argument that holds any weight then. I've refuted all your points against him as being NAI for him and last time I saw him as scum he was fucking blatant.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

I'm going through in dual ISO and up to page 18 so far I can't see anything as a bus. He voted drealmerz for roleplaying so far, which I wouldn't consider a serious line of attack. Especially since he moved off that fairly quickly. I'll keep going after lunch to see whether he ever hard pushes the slot.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

*as not a bus.

Anyway I'll be back I'm already getting yelled at to go get food but @Prism that spell isn't indicative of anything, I wouldn't use it in trying to read NC, and if you think NC is scum then the only logical conclusion is it's scum with drealmerz anyway. Either way, drealmerz is scum and we have a fairly good chance to find the doc spell if NC is town.

[BATORU]

Did the spell say what would happen if scum tried to use it?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

There's actually a lot of interaction between Dunn and Dreamerz that suggest Dunn was trying to set him up for a day 2 lynch.

I'm up to page 27 and finding this false. In fact, Dunnstral turns on Nosferatu for wanting to lynch drealmerz for rping. He places a joke(?) vote on drealmerz when drealmerz was doing his weird rp thing but backs off without much more of a push there, going on to someone else?

In fact, the person I see Dunn as trying to set up for a D2 lynch is actually ironstove (your slot)?

~Ruko

[BATORU]

N2 My slot sent my Alert to Fire Assassin and I gained Travelers Blessing (from who I do not know).

That was from me. That was the <3 post to Sick.

Haven't read past this yet, need coffee.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

That's a question he can't answer. Sick would have been the one to do that.

~Ruko

[BATORU]

i'm using Arcane Theft now. don't announce that you have it, whoever i use it on.

Lol. Who would you have used it on otherwise?

[BATORU]

Hey so I'm actually really unmotivated about this game in general. Partly due to my hydra partner also being unmotivated pretty much all game since D1 and just...eh. It doesn't feel good having all my scumreads be wrong so completely to this point, tbh, and it's hard to keep any amount of confidence in my reads beyond my townreads. Even switching off Nos onto Dunn was only because I was more inclined to listen to Fire's assessment of Nos and was reading a game that backed that up at the time.

I talked to her and we're thinking we'll just replace because you guys really don't deserve a slot that's not going to put in the effort from at least one head. I'll see how I go here and whether I feel any more motivated after this. Sorry.

So far in my iso'ing (I've only done triple iso Dunn/iron/drealmerz up to page 35 so it's not the whole picture):

NC looks town for interactions with Dunnstral. Can confirm NC knows my spells and I know it was genuine about having the Arcane Theft spell. The plan to find the doc is something I wouldn't have expected scum to have thought about either, since they'd likely know what happened to the doc spell. I also find holding off and not using it on Dunnstral to get the block and hated spells to stay in the game is something I wouldn't expect scum to do.

drealmerz is still unconvincing. The towniest thing about him so far has been his AtE upon receiving the loved spell and even then I'm not sure that wasn't just scum giving up. Also he soft cc's NC's PR and calls it town for it? It doesn't seem like a genuine thought process. I'd expect spells to double up but not PR's. Dunnstral made a weak push on him D1 that went nowhere and kind of got dropped. That said, I don't think he's partners with BTD so if BTD flips scum or drealmerz flips scum it clears the other completely.

BTD looks like Dunn may have been trying to set him up, but it's also possible he's just a partner. I still maintain that BTD's focus on vigs, setup spec, and low activity are all NAI for him. Aside from that I didn't like that BTD didn't call out NC for what was looking to I think at least some of the thread a mason soft/potential partner set up because it shows a lack of paranoia. I just don't think there's a case on him and in my experience he's lynchbait that scum leave in the game for an easy mislynch. His tone isn't as stiff as it was in the game I played with him where he was scum, and he hasn't tried any ridiculous gambits afaik. It just doesn't feel like scum BTD.

Prism looks bad in the ISO. The only good thing is where he called Dunn out about "defending" him and even then it wasn't a hard defense or anything so it's not like it's something hard for Dunn to refute? Judging off Dunn's iso it wasn't a hard push but rather shade throwing, so I think it's plausible it was distancing here. Plus this latest read change on me along with the 180 on BTD looks opportunistic, as more people seem to come around to those lynches. Might be omgus, not sure right now.

pisskop's push on Dunn D1 doesn't feel like distancing moreso than he actually wanted Dunn to get lynched I think? The fact that Dunn threw the hated at pk N1 also contributes to this. piss making Dunn hated shouldn't come into play here because he'd know his partner was going down imo, but the fact remains that I can't see scum motivation in removing a hated spell from the game rather than letting it float around more and make for easier mislynches.

ironstove (Aj The Epic) had a push from Dunn early on then nothing, really. Dunn continually calls him scum then goes after Sondam. AJ's roleblock on Dunn supposedly causing the no kill doesn't work as well as a townclear as I thought, either, given the same reasoning for pisskop's throwing the hated on Dunn. If you know your partner is going down you probably want to look as good as possible. The no kill I don't think put scum in a worse position because it's bad for town to be on even numbers, so idunno.

Wisdom (havingfitz) slot looks bad with this triple ISO too but more because I'm just seeing Dunn's side of things without seeing where Wisdom stood on it. I know I thought Sick was town and Fire also believed that, and he is generally really good at getting townreads (another reason I'm more inclined to believe NC is town too).

Um.. I will try to answer to things I can remember off the top of my head but I can't answer for anything from Impo's (tama) end.

[BATORU]

no, I meant I might be omgusing there.

[BATORU]

This post[/post] by BATORU feels a bit off.

BATORU is against claiming spells and obtw...town reads

Dunnstral

for claiming.

Not sure how any of Battoru scum/spell discussion on page 2 is of any value.

This post BATORU states sentiment that

Dunnstral

is not scum this game.

K first post - that's by tama/Impoetic, and I'm pretty sure the problem there is just tonal. She's always like that. As I said to Aj before.
2nd part, again, Impoetic specific. she asked the mod a question because she didn't know the answer, I assume, so it was probably helpful to her. Not wanting people to claim and townreading people for claiming early are two different things, and she also tr ironstove for it, not just dunnstral. I never agreed with her ftr, on either claims being AI, though I found Dunn's push on Nos D1 with us to be town indicative.

Decided to break this up since I did end up responding a bit to Impo's stuff.

This post BATORU seems to discredit the negative attention

Dunnstral

is getting.

This post annnd Fire Assassin goes 0-3.

How is wanting pressure on someone discrediting? My issue was with the fact that the votes lacked any kind of presence. They weren't coming across as "I would lynch this" when both parties clearly stated they had no reads. That doesn't pressure someone. It's empty voting and read to me as trying to look busy.

Everyone in the last part hasn't flipped :/ How can you say he's 0-3?

This post BATORU agrees with

Dunnstral's

suspicions w/o any voting.

Yup, this was Tama. I disagreed, I thought ironstove's giving up at the time was town. Since then with Fire telling me it is something he's done as scum before and having seen it in another game I've realized that's not necessarily true, but at the time I did think he was more likely town for the giving up and declaring to lynch him then Frozen.

Anyway, we were trying not to just go off on our own and vote without discussing it first. In fact, early D1 I wanted pisskop but tama I think was tonereading him as town so we settled on Nosferatu for quite some time. The tradeoff is when she wanted ironstove I wouldn't allow that either due to my read on him.

Note...I suspect BATORU up to this point but I'd almost want to vote it out just because of ALL THE FCUKING HYDRA SLIPS by Impoetic. FFS.

This post Fire gave BATORU something.

This post @BATORU...

Dunnstral

not being in danger of a lynch is why I don't put much weight in this vote either.

This post gives me just a little pause for thought with my suspicions towards BATORU :/

Well, don't worry. She lost motivation for the game and the only one pushing her to try to read up and post was me. And now I'm not even sure I can keep myself motivated. So chances are there won't be any more hydra slips.

Yup, he gave us Loved spell.

I never asked you to I don't think? I was waiting for Fire to come back and move his vote off Nos so we could have a chance at saving him. Which is why i was so pissed at the hammer.

?? not sure why that post would give you pause, tbh. It's musing on how people would use their role and what that could mean for alignment, and trying to prove to drealmerz if he's town why his "case" on BTD doesn't exist and he should prove it's a genuine read rather than scum tunneling the person known to be an easy mislynch.

[BATORU]

I'm going to throw my vote back onto Drealm for now.

This is L-1.

VOTE: Drealm

Actually it would have been L-2. Not Chara made him loved.

[BATORU]

So, just so you know... We need literally every single townie to vote drealmerz to lynch him. 8 people total, and 2 are scum. drealmerz is at 6 to lynch.

[BATORU]

If there were any other questions for me please quote/reiterate and I'll try to answer best I can.

[BATORU]

How would BTD's townflip clear you and why do you believe that's basis for a lynch?

You're lynching for self-interest and information rather than trying to lynch scum is what it looks like to me here. It needs to stop.

[BATORU]

And why would scum redirect scum?

For the same reason scum could make one of their own hated, or roleblock and no kill. For the same reason scum generally pull those kinds of gambits.

And that's even assuming you were redirected and not lying about that. pisskop also claimed to be redirected. That doesn't clear him either.

[BATORU]

@Not Chara: Do you realize if you successfully get drealm lynched without me on it then it's a guaranteed mislynch? What the fuck are you trying to do?

what?

Ok I need to ask whether you guys know what loved means. It means you take one extra vote to be lynched. NC legit can't hammer without you being on there.

drealmerz7 (4): BTD6_Maker, BATORU, pisskop, Aj The Epic
BTD6_Maker (2): drealmerz7, havingfitz
pisskop (1): Not Chara

Not Voting (1): Prism

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

From the latest vote count. There are 2 scum remaining. What this means is we need 6/8 (ie all remaining townies) to vote drealmerz for his lynch to go through, or scum to know it's not going through because he's loved so they sit there to soft bus, in which case we still need 5/6 remaining townies to hop on and see who hops off or force the partner to hard bus.

[BATORU]

I'm holding on to the loved spell because I am town and I can't be sure of anyone else being town and so the most pro-town thing to do is keep it to try and make it more likely that I don't get lynched

if I live through the Day I will pass it back to NC most likely

2 left
who are the 2
me and? ??? ??????? exactly...

sooo, get off my wagon already!!!!

it's some combo of BAT+PK+BTD6

Worth noting, if he thought all scum were in {BATORU, pisskop, BTD6} then by PoE everyone else must be town.

This is not genuine.

[BATORU]

that said, can you explain it to me? i don't see why it's impossible for a buddy of dreal's to be bussing him, and working through this sort of logic in my head isn't a strong suite.

Keep in mind it takes 6 votes (with 6 town alive) to lynch Drealm. There's not really any reason to bus Drealm if I'm not willing to lynch them. No townsperson will be left off on it except me, and I already can't be scum with Drealm. (As I can only be scum with BTD6)

Bussing Drealm here as scum without me being willing to lynch him is legitimately stupid.

Which is why you should be voting drealm.

I really don't follow what you're saying unless you're saying you're never voting drealm? In which case you're guaranteeing that we never get scum lynched today, because it's between BTD and drealm and I don't think BTD is scum here with Dunnstral. I keep remembering the attempt to get Dunnstral to say something about the doc spell which just doesn't make sense for scum!BTD.

[BATORU]

Like, do you realize that Not Chara was threatening to hammer when drealmerz was at L-2, not L-1?

[BATORU]

So we're forcing the no lynch?

@Nahdia can we get 24 hours extension to compensate for Christmas Day?

[BATORU]

VOTE: No Lynch :/

[BATORU]

NTY I don't like Lylo. Pick someone, we're going fucking ham.

I've never won lynching in mylo and I didn't want to be here to lose another game for town. Thought I might get nightkilled at least but that didn't happen.

I'm not even motivated enough to give a shit that Prism is either about to try to push my ml as scum with BTD or has a game losing read as town. I'm sorry. I should have replaced out yesterday after I put in that bit of effort. I was hoping I'd be able to pick up with a bit of momentum but d7 flipping town just fucking killed it completely.

I wanted to play this game with Impo and she lost motivation for playing and that is just...leaking on to me too. You guys deserve someone that's actually going to try. I kept telling myself I'd look into things more during the night phase but didn't end up doing it so... yeah

Anyway, kinda drives it home when I just feel nothing about the fact that we're going to lose the way things are so.

@Mod sorry could we please be replaced? Impo head flaked anyway so technically she didn't fulfil the activity requirements for the hydra

Good luck guys, sorry I didn't replace sooner.