Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[mozamis]

Bollocks, forgot the "Pine didnt know Cabd was joking about Masons thing", which seemed a pretty good town tell.
Pine back to town then I guess. Still, be good to get more from him.

[Cabd]

It was but only on day one.

[Titus]

You draw parallel between piegirl and alisae?

Leash or lynch almost always gives flashbacks. Given the strongblock we appear to have, mandating the vig shoot a particular slot and lynching any deviation that doesn't hit scum. No excuses. Whatever we decide, we stick with.

[Elbirn]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

I don't believe in leashing an sk. If someone isn't on the town faction then they need to die.

I don't believe in lynching town. If alisae is vig then leave her alive

Proposal: SK's are compulsive killers yeah? Just tell alisae not to kill anymore, or at least for one night phase. Proves she's not sk, confirmed town vig. Problem solved.

You've hammered a townie, NK'd a cop, and now tunnel another townie.

I mean

That first one was a trick, she had no way of knowing uzi was a vanilla cop, and regardless of whether she's town vig or 3p sk has no knowledge of your alignment

Blaming her for....any of that, really, doesn't make sense.


Sidenote: do you know the difference between cop and vanilla cop?

[Titus]

Sks are not compulsive.

[mozamis]

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)

Shit wagon

Well, he wasn't wrong.
On the basis 1)Pine town cos of Cabd/masons joke, 2)Titus cleared by Cabd, 3)Alisae just-seems-very-town+vigclaim+lolhammer
...you'd think scum might have hopped on, so Gamma and Elbirn.
Makes me move Elbirn back to null. And refreshes my memory as to Gamma being not great.

[Pine]

Bollocks, forgot the "Pine didnt know Cabd was joking about Masons thing", which seemed a pretty good town tell.
Pine back to town then I guess. Still, be good to get more from him.

Okay, ordinarily I just plain wouldn't comment on supposed Towntells regarding me, but I'm on an "educate new players" kick, and everything about this is terrible.

1) Mistaking the player list is NAI. It happens to be correct here, which is why I let it go, but if you'd said that about someone else I'd fight you on it. It is arguably evidence towards a read, but it's pretty weak sauce.

2) If someone Towntells on D1, they've Towntold. It doesn't get stale. It doesn't go away. If you make the decision that scum wouldn't do that, scum wouldn't do it. Period. That is, definitionally, the difference between a "tell" and a "read". A tell is a solid, reliable indicator. A read is a general feeling, which may change. All of this applies to scumtells, too. If someone slips and says something D1 that is irredeemably scummy, like not knowing that VTs are called "Adventurers" in this theme game, that doesn't get stale either. It doesn't matter that they acted Townish later.

End lesson. Continue to read me Town, as it is correct this game, just sharpen your game.

[mozamis]

I'm on an "educate new players"

You joined 15 days after me lol

[Pine]

Never heard of you.

And I AM giving more. It isn't my fault that it's hard as balls to keep up with 84 pages of mostly drivel over four or five days. I'm current and providing input now. Also, bullshit that I'm not providing analysis, I've given solid reads on at least 1/3 of the player list just in the last 24 hours.

[Pine]

Okay, the quick version of recent posts. I have to finish making this pie, wrap some final gifts, drive to my parents' house, then get some shuteye.

Large posts from/regarding Tywin

- Tywin appears to be caught scum flailing here. The connections between him and Cloudkicker are just too much to ignore. Yes, I know, some of you are suggesting CK was trying to earn Towncred from a Tywin!Town flip, but I don't think so. CK went to the mat for Tywin. Solid scum strategy is to make a futile effort to save Town. Key word being

futile

. You protest, and make a Towncase, and offer an alternate wagon that isn't going to fly. CK was trying way too hard for real. He didn't argue against it, he fucking derailed the Tywin wagon. That screams traitor trying to protect partner. Obviously, they didn't get the message. In light of this, everything else Tywin said is bunk, and isn't worth the digital paper it's written on.

It sounds like she's pushing a scumread. How strange.

I honestly believe you're scum. You've added nothing to the game, was on the Lapsa lynch, push for my lynch (I know I'm town) without reason, doesn't think things through about what info my flip will give if it flips town (and it will), doesn't look at Syryana or Alisae both claiming vigi, and has tried to derail the Kyouko wagon by going back to the easy mislynch (me).

What have you done this game that is pro-town Pine? Also, why not question the counter claims at all? What case do you have on me as scum, and if I flip town, what info do you gain from it? Do you not think anything through as a general rule?

This post, directed at me, is a perfect example. He's throwing an absolutely trash case at me. On the Lapsa lynch? I was the first vote, jackass. You can't be opportunistic!scum if there was no wagon to jump on. Pushing you without reason? I've given my reasons thoroughly. You have to flip Town first in order to bother with implications of a Townflip. Discussing them prior to flip is pure WIFOM. Perhaps I didn't keep up with D1, but I'm here now, and adding plenty. Derailing the Kyouku wagon? What Kyouku wagon? I've asked for cases on them anyway, there's no deflection here but Tywin's. Why not question CCs? There aren't any. Syryana never hardclaimed. With Alisae's hardclaim, his talk of vigging is regarded as a jest unless he makes an actual counter. I think

everything

through, I just refuse to engage in WIFOM.

This is the kind of nonsense that makes me super hard for scum!Tywin's lynch.

Mozamis

- Our disagreement seems mostly resolved, but I'm a bit suspicious of him. In particular, the "I have Cabd as Town but not Titus" is suspicious as fuck, because that doesn't compute. It shows a serious lack of critical thinking, and suggests someone who's just making things up as they go. Don't get me wrong, I've made boneheaded errors like that as Town too, but it's cause for concern and further evaluation. Reasons for putting SSMB Kyouku in Townpile are super weak too. I don't see real!Town giving someone a pass that easy. Kneejerk desire to immediately lynch Vig/SK is also indicative of someone who fears an uncontrolled NK.

Regarding Vig/SK leashing

- Unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, Alisae is either SK or Vig. IMO, neither leashing nor killing the SK/Vig out of hand is pro-Town. SK/Vig is arguably the biggest threat to the scumteam, until late game. She shouldn't make it to endgame, but neither do we end her shots. That said, leashing SK/Vig does not work in my experience. Yes, it essentially gives us two lynches, but it also allows scum to influence a second NK. Vig/SK, regardless of their own alignment, is anti-scum, and will shoot for their scum suspects. In short, fire away, Alisae. Know that your choices will be judged, and if you start shooting obvTown, you'll get lynched right away.

You draw parallel between piegirl and alisae?

Leash or lynch almost always gives flashbacks. Given the strongblock we appear to have, mandating the vig shoot a particular slot and lynching any deviation that doesn't hit scum. No excuses. Whatever we decide, we stick with.

Disagree, friend Titus. Also, in this context, it's spelled 'bloc'. Got that case on SSBM_Kyouku?

[Pine]

Yes, that is the short version. I have at various times had a reputation as a wallposter. I started a truly epic catchup wall around page 50, but by the time I got to 20, you guys were at page 70 or something. You were going faster than I could catch up.

[Titus]

Just that Cloud said to SSM that was not a traitor crumb.

[Pine]

That's not really a case.

[Titus]

I am voting Mozamis.

[Elbirn]

Lapsa 5 (Pine, Gamma Emerald, Titus, Alisae, Elbirn)

Shit wagon

Well, he wasn't wrong.
On the basis 1)Pine town cos of Cabd/masons joke, 2)Titus cleared by Cabd, 3)Alisae just-seems-very-town+vigclaim+lolhammer
...you'd think scum might have hopped on, so Gamma and Elbirn.
Makes me move Elbirn back to null. And refreshes my memory as to Gamma being not great.

"This arbitrary list of 5 player names I picked out of a hat has to include scum because of fairy dust and child-dreams. I'm going to ignore any actual sense, logical thought, or work done by this player afterwards to take a mental diarrhea on them instead"

Merry Christmas Moz.

[Alisae]

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

[Titus]

Elbrin, give me a Christmas vote and vote Moz?

[Titus]

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

Share imo.

[Pine]

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

Keep them to yourself. If scum have a roleblocker, they'll let you shoot if you're aiming for Town until you're aiming for scum, then roleblock you.

[Pine]

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

Share imo.

Bad friend. No slice of homemade apple pie.

FROM SCRATCH.

[Alisae]

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

Keep them to yourself. If scum have a roleblocker, they'll let you shoot if you're aiming for Town until you're aiming for scum, then roleblock you.

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

Share imo.

...
...
...
Ok.

Should I share who I will never ever ever shoot? That seems to be even ground here.

[Titus]

I still think sharing is a good idea but always include multiple names, including viable players you may not shoot. It will get reactions we can use. Even if scum block you, that too is a reaction.

[Elbirn]

Sks are not compulsive.

Why is everything I know a lie

Is there a variation where they are compulsive or something? I swear to god that was the point, they're psychos who can't stop killing.

I won't do anything stupid Pine.
Tho should I keep my potential targets to myself or share them?

Share imo.

Oh honey no

Elbrin, give me a Christmas vote and vote Moz?

I don't have any conviction that he's scum other than that post being hot garbage, and I'm always biased against people who talk shit on me. If you can convince me with a brief summary for when I wake up christmas morn' I'll certainly read it


I am tired of my vote not being in play so uh eat my Gary Johnson protest vote

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Elbirn]

...
...
Ok.

Should I share who I will never ever ever shoot? That seems to be even ground here.

Honestly alisae, I want you to say nothing about who you're going to shoot or not shoot. Just pay attention to the game state and shoot who's most scumread. Don't try to be a hero, or a loose cannon. You're one person and your reads can be flawed. Everyone's reads are, individually, you know?

Act like towns second lynch. Go with the will of the town. If someone's getting votes and scumreads from everyone but for some reason just can't seem to get the rope? Shoot em in the face.

[Alisae]

I like what Elbrin said. I think Elbrin is a cool person.
And I'll do that.
I also won't give reads.