Micro 672: Vanillish Mafia (Game Over!)

[karnos]

Ok fair enough but
Mechanically Spades is scum.
Hiraki cannot be scum if Spades is town otherwise they would've hammered
But Spades is not town so Hiraki and Spades are scum.
Lynch Spades today and then Hiraki tomorrow for victory

Logically this is an imperfect argument, but Aelin was pretty consisting in reading the scum team as Spade, Hiraki, & TT. Later she had doubts and thought maybe I was the 3rd scum instead of TT, but still thought Hiraki was scum.

Despite everyone thinking that scum would kill gin&tonic, they killed Aelin.

Maybe she was a little bit too close to the mark?

[karnos]

You are literally going to each post, hitting something that sounds good, and then just posting it. I can refute every point that you made above with another post that comes right after - I will do this but I need to make something very clear.

You are creating a scumread on me rather than looking at my posts comprehensively and creating a scumread on me. One is town, the other is scum.

Calling my post scummy isn't helping

anyone

.

Uh, yes of course I am. Memory is imperfect, and I want to get this right. I am reading through your iso and when I see things that pinged me as scummy I am making note.

If this is how scum creates a fake scum read, how would the process be different from town? Rely entirely on memory without quoting at all? You aren't being very sensible.

[karnos]

Think about it for a moment.

Here is the scenario: I am scum, Hiraki is town. We only need one miss lynch to win.

We can either kill aelin, who is reading hiraki as scum, or we can kill gin&tonic who was pushing to lynch me.

Why on earth would I have my scum partner kill gin&tonic instead of aelin?

[karnos]

...

Why on earth would I have my scum partner kill aelin instead of gin&tonic?

<-obviously what I meant to write.

[Hiraki]

do you still think Kain is town?

If you want my comprehensive list of who scum is, it would be:

1) Kain
2) Karnos
3) TT

2) ThinkTank/Kain - I think these are 2 and 3, respectively, but I am willing to reconsider based on what you think about Think Tank. I would like you to guide me through that. I have looked at Karnos through a more objective lens and I do not see him being scum. He is objectively scummy but not for the right reasons for being scum. I can get into this if you would like.

(no)

Are you okay with lynching think tank?

If you want my comprehensive list of who scum is, it would be:

1) Kain
2) Karnos
3) TT

(no)

If this is how scum creates a fake scum read, how would the process be different from town? Rely entirely on memory without quoting at all? You aren't being very sensible.

Really? That's how you build a case? Throw darts at the wall and hope they stick? Not look at the information at hand, make connections, see what's really going on, find the flaws and inconsistencies that are actually there?

You put a post in a case from Think Tank that you thought was drunkposting but was only helping Gin summarize his lynch patterns. That's fabrication - you haven't looked at the context of the quote but since it looks a little fishy, why not just stick it up there and make it look scummy? It might work - just not this time. (i'm counting on you Gin)

Maybe she was a little bit too close to the mark?

Maybe so you create this very argument? Do you think it was weird that Aelin had no reason or rhyme for any of her posts and just out of the blue scumread me?

[Hiraki]

I also don't think it's very wise to focus on the vengekill - Spade's flip condemning Kain is much more important than guesstimating why the scum vengekilled someone.

[karnos]

I also don't think it's very wise to focus on the vengekill - Spade's flip condemning Kain is much more important than guesstimating why the scum vengekilled someone.

Of course you don't think it's wise to look at the kill, because it implicates you.

[karnos]

You put a post in a case from Think Tank that you thought was drunkposting but was only helping Gin summarize his lynch patterns. That's fabrication - you haven't looked at the context of the quote but since it looks a little fishy, why not just stick it up there and make it look scummy? It might work - just not this time. (i'm counting on you Gin)

That leaves

1) Karnos, Kain, Spade
2) Karnos, Kain, Hiraki
3) Karnos, Spade, Hiraki
4) Kain, Spade, Hiraki

Karnos - 4x
Spade - 3x
Hiraki -3x
Kain - 3x

Based upon this, there are 4 ways in which karnos is scum, 3 ways in which the others are scum.

Can you please explain how his post makes sense? My name appears 3 times, same as everyone else. Yet he seems to be making some silly argument about how I am more likely to be scum based on his broken math? Either he is drunk or malicious scum.

[Hiraki]

No, that's from an objective standpoint.

You literally stated that Aelin's logic faulty. Why on earth would you trust someone with faulty reads? Because they flipped town? That's not a suitable reason for me and I don't think it should be suitable for anyone.

But I'm glad you entertained my point about the possibility that it was done for the very opposite reason.

Post-edit:

Yes, because making a mistake either means that you are:

1) Drunk
2) Scum

There is a mistake in the post. You are correct. I don't think anyone is basing their reads on that post. Are you?

[karnos]

No, that's from an objective standpoint.

You literally stated that Aelin's logic faulty. Why on earth would you trust someone with faulty reads? Because they flipped town? That's not a suitable reason for me and I don't think it should be suitable for anyone.

Flipped town? As an IC the flip was irrelevant. A bit of a logical leap doesn't mean the conclusion is wrong, and given nobody else was pointing out any flaw in the logic maybe nobody saw what I see. Remember I also pointed out where your logic was flawed, and you disregarded my opinion immediately. Interesting how you are willing to trust my read in this case, when it favors your position.

There is a mistake in the post. You are correct. I don't think anyone is basing their reads on that post. Are you?

The post strengthens my scum read of think tank, but it would be an exaggeration to say it is the BASE of my read.

[Hiraki]

A bit of a logical leap doesn't mean the conclusion is wrong

You're right, here are some other example of that:

I painted the sky blue, therefore it is blue.

Mafiascum is spelt that way because I decided so.

Perhaps this makes things a little clearer? This is literally Aelin posting. Meanwhile, Spade does give reasoning for his reads and they're pretty implicitly biased.

and given nobody else was pointing out any flaw in the logic maybe nobody saw what I see.

Yeah? Please tell me Aelin's basis for her reads. I'll wait.

Remember I also pointed out where your logic was flawed, and you disregarded my opinion immediately.

Not sure what you mean here. Clarify?

Interesting how you are willing to trust my read in this case, when it favors your position.

Again, clarify?

but it would be an exaggeration to say it is the BASE of my read.

OK - so then you understand how it looks really stupid that it comes up in your case right? I'm trying to figure things out and I'm pretty sure I have them down but you are screwing up my reads no matter what you do because you're flipflopping and acting like you never did.

[Hiraki]

OK - so then you understand how it looks really stupid that it comes up in your case right? I'm trying to figure things out and I'm pretty sure I have them down but you are screwing up my reads no matter what you do because you're flipflopping and acting like you never did.

I'm redacting this - I didn't read your post quite right.

So getting back to what I said, if you make a mistake, you are either drunk or scum? Do you think that Gin is going to base his scumread on the number of times your name came up in a list?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

How about we entertain the thought that both Hiraki and Karnos are town. I'd like to see that

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

My current main scum read - Hiraki

There are so many things regarding him that is rubbing me the wrong way.

1) His only reason for voting against me was cos I called his Post 67 as fluff, which it indeed was.

2) He gives a definition of the meaning of fluff and uses that definition to defend everything. He says, "

For the purposes of fluff, I would think that it is pretty agreed that these are points that provide no content and no information to anyone.

No

, the definition of Fluff is:-

"writing perceived as trivial or superficial."

It could provide content but it is either not useful or not justified with reasons.

3) His defense of why Post 67 is not fluff, was mainly made using statements he provided in the defense itself,which is, Post 104. You cannot defend why one post is shitty based on reasons you have provided in another post. This is his first statement:

"For example, in Post 14, ThinkTank is pretty serious about the PL before Kain posts. Then drops it once it looks like a scene is being created in Post 36. Please explain to me how that is fluff and not just a misunderstanding of how I utilize the term "don't like this"?"

If he had mentioned this initially,which he didn't, then I wouldn't have called him out on that.

4) Next, his comments on ThinkTank. He first says. "

I can't comment on his townread if he's giving no substance and also is making me look scummy in his own dying ship.

. This makes it seem as if he has a slight scum lean on Pine. But he then goes on to defend ThinkTank saying that ThinkTank probably made an error in his list. So do you scumlean Pine or Townlean Pine??

5) His comment based on Pine's scum list.

Think Tank, feel free to correct me. I didn't think it was hard to read or understand. The people who are looking at this have clearly not read the post and just noticed a small discrepancy and jumped on it.

.

No

, we have clearly read the post and noticed the error but we wanted to know what sort of "town vibes" he got from you.

6) His comments:-

@Mod: Definitely not being a hardass - we appreciate it lol

@Gin: Have fun!

Seems as if he is trying too hard to be town. Esp when Mod's comment was not directed at him.

VOTE: Hiraki

PEDIT: Look who decided to finally show up for the game.

This is a damning post show conf!town

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Lynchpool today is karnos, Kain, Think

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Actually, redacting Karnos

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

VOTE: Think

Hiraki and Kranos, your argument is a TvT, just look at it after taking a step back

[Hiraki]

[quote="In post 312, TheRealGin-N-Tonic"][/quote]I can't do that anymore. Voting Think Tank is a mistake. I urge you to get off quickly.

[Hiraki]

wow thank you quote tags lemme fix the above

VOTE: Think

Hiraki and Kranos, your argument is a TvT, just look at it after taking a step back

I can't do that anymore. Voting Think Tank is a mistake. I urge you to get off quickly. Kain is 100% scum while Karnos v TT is a 50/50 split down the middle.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What's the difference?

[Hiraki]

TT is town the other two aren't?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I don't see how Kain is 100% scum

[Hiraki]

If you can call me confirmed town based off of Spade's posts, then why can't you call Kain confirmed scum?

[Hiraki]

1. Kain is playing markedly different from his other games which tbh is not a good sign. He is giving more input and less random posts which is not his usual style

2. Look how quickly TT and Kain mounted pressure on each other and then equally quickly removed it. Seems to have worked since Tonic has town read both of them.

3. In post 63, Kain says he thought it was easy to pull of a PL. No it never was and it never will be in a game with just 8 members.

4. All this makes it feel as if the, 'PL' was just a ploy.
5. Hiraki your post seems to contain a lot of fluff as if you are trying to contribute. The only thing I agree with you is about Tonic. If I didn't know Tonic was an IC, my vote would have been on him.

PEDIT: there seems to be many posts. Will go through them and reply.

This is bussing 101. Don't do too much to put a vote on and don't do so little that when you do put the vote on, it looks like you never tried.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Tell me how Think is town and I'll move a vote but there is nothing coming out of that hydra that has actually been helpful