Newbie 1767 | Winter | Endgame

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:04 pm

Post by Huntress »

Hi everyone! I am the Inexperience-Challenged (IC) player in this game. Basically it means that if at any time you have any questions (not related to your role) about game mechanics, mafia theory or about anything that is happening in the game, feel free to ask and I will answer them to the best of my ability. Some things I may have to give a partial answer for because of the game being ongoing. If that happens I will let you know and will make a note to come back to it after the game is over. If you have any questions related to your role then please send a PM to the mod as these should not be asked in game.

I guarantee that I will not lie about theory and practice regardless of my alignment, and my alignment is randomized along with everyone else's so I could be either town or mafia.

A few useful links:
Glossary
Commonly Used Abbreviations
Newbie Guide
A Beginner's Guide to Being Awesome At Mafia
Fonzie's Guide to Early Game Survival for Newbies

Usually, once the game has officially begun, we start the game with the
Random Voting Stage (RVS)
, where we vote for randomish reasons. The purpose of this is to immediately get people talking about things and to help get the game moving. Not everyone votes in their first post as you'll see when playing or reading more games. I sometimes do and sometimes don't. RVS tends to go on for a page or so until someone finds something worth following up.

Some people prefer to start with a Random Question Stage (RQS) instead, where they ask everyone to reply to a set of questions which may or may not appear relevant to the game. The danger of this is that players may inadvertantly say something which gives a clue to their role. (And be wary because some questioners may actually be fishing for this!)

Vote, but don't quicklynch!
If your vote puts someone at L-1 (only one more vote needed to lynch), then say so. The next person who wants to vote that person should declare intent to hammer and ask for a claim before making the final vote. We don't have a fixed-length Day phase here so the Day ends as soon as a majority, in this case five votes, is reached. The deadline is only there to stop the day going on too long.

I'll add more stuff as we go along but the best way to learn is from experience so jump in, keep active (try for at least one post a day), and have fun!
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Post Post #12 (isolation #1) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:32 am

Post by Huntress »

I think Loopdan and Raskolnikov are the only ones here I've played with before.

Vote: Loopdan
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Post Post #23 (isolation #2) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:47 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 13, Loopdan wrote:@Huntress-- You had a choice of putting the third vote on either Selynee or me. Why'd you go with the more experienced player?
Your wagon started first.
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Post Post #28 (isolation #3) » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:13 am

Post by Huntress »

In post 26, Loopdan wrote:Like I was implying... it usually works better on newbies than SE's.
I was hoping to see how TheBrie (the only brand new player here), reacted to a third vote on the wagon she joined. But that train has left the station now.

Selynee had already seemed to be unconcerned about a couple of votes on herself.

Fred looked a bit self-conscious about the wagon, first ignoring it, then querying it, and lastly downplaying it's value.

I agree with Rask on TheBrie.

I've got an odd feeling about Echo. He may be scum.

Vote: EchoVision
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Post Post #42 (isolation #4) » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:50 am

Post by Huntress »

In post 34, Selynee wrote:Huntress, do you think Rask is town ?
No idea yet. I haven't seen anything that's really alignment-indicative.

In post 35, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:What do you agree with Rask on TheBrie?
See post . I'll add more when the time is right.
In post 36, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:So, EchoVision might be scum because of "an odd feeling about Echo"?
Yes.
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Post Post #81 (isolation #5) » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:37 pm

Post by Huntress »

Haven't had a chance to look at this today. I'll catch up tomorrow.
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Post Post #104 (isolation #6) » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:57 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 47, EchoVision wrote:Can you explain the odd feeling about me?
It was from post . It felt like you trying to defend TheBrie by searching around for a different reason for Rask's comment than the one actually given.

Loopdan's question about Sensfan's first vote also felt weird.

In post 48, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:However, that doesn't explain why the vote was changed, which was the question I asked.
Why would you expect someone to stay with a random vote?

In post 101, TheBrie wrote:The three people are me and the two scum. Also you and Fred if you aren't mafia. So probably four then.
Why include Fred in that?
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Post Post #127 (isolation #7) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:37 am

Post by Huntress »

@ Echo:
Have you ever been mafia before? If you have, can you give me a link to the game please?
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Post Post #128 (isolation #8) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:44 am

Post by Huntress »

In post 117, TheBrie wrote:If Huntress still suspects Echo and can explain why, I'll jump on that wagon. Something doesn't seem quite right.
Loopdan on the other hand is crazily confusing. I don't know what lying to a newbie about the game mechanics is supposed to achieve.
I explained it in , and nothing I've seen since has changed that feeling. But if you haven't seen that then you've no reason to sheep me; so why are you prepared to do so?
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Post Post #131 (isolation #9) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:11 am

Post by Huntress »

I'm aware of his onsite game and have already read it, and noted the difference in his play so far here. It's too soon to really tell based on that. But that is not what I was asking him about. Why did you feel the need to respond to a question that was addressed directly to him, not to you?
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Post Post #184 (isolation #10) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:40 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 154, Raskolnikov wrote:Mmm, huntress could actually be with echo if I'm right.

First impression is retroactively the votes good just for being on echo, but when she made it () it didn't make sense given he only just rvs'd/entranced...
The vote was for his second post, not his first.
In post 168, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 28, Huntress wrote:
In post 26, Loopdan wrote:Like I was implying... it usually works better on newbies than SE's.
I was hoping to see how TheBrie (the only brand new player here), reacted to a third vote on the wagon she joined. But that train has left the station now.

Selynee had already seemed to be unconcerned about a couple of votes on herself.

Fred looked a bit self-conscious about the wagon, first ignoring it, then querying it, and lastly downplaying it's value.

I agree with Rask on TheBrie.

I've got an odd feeling about Echo. He may be scum.

Vote: EchoVision
Actually, given each of these the echo choice is odd given huntress herself describes fred as she did and agreed with me on thebrie. Seems like the weakest thing there so I don't see how it translated into being the vote?

Huntress?
I was following my gut there. I've explained what gave me that feeling. It was a choice between Echo and Fred, but Echo felt scummier. What makes you think that was the weakest thing there?
In post 174, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 131, Huntress wrote:I'm aware of his onsite game and have already read it, and noted the difference in his play so far here. It's too soon to really tell based on that. But that is not what I was asking him about. Why did you feel the need to respond to a question that was addressed directly to him, not to you?
Really?

Was this before the game, or in rvs, or...?
I read it yesterday, just before I posted .
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Post Post #186 (isolation #11) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:04 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 142, TheBrie wrote:Huntress, what do you think of Sensfan and Loopdan. I'm sure they're not a team, but everything else about them is uncertain.
I haven't got a good read on Sensfan yet but he's looking townish so far. Loopdan I'm beginning to think may be scum. That question about Sensfan's vote felt weird, then there was the defence of Echo.


There's more I need to follow up on. I'll do that tomorrow.
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Post Post #245 (isolation #12) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:50 pm

Post by Huntress »

Just checking in. I'll look at this tomorrow.
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Post Post #280 (isolation #13) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:12 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 220, Loopdan wrote:What did you need to follow up on?
I wanted to recheck a couple of players I felt I hadn't paid enough attention to.

In post 238, SensFan wrote:It's just as much on lucca as it is on me.
No it wasn't. It was entirely your choice to hammer, despite the fact that at least two of us had indicated we still had stuff to do and Echo had said that he would post tomorrow as he needed sleep. The same thing happened to me in a recent game where a player was pushing me for a claim. I had countered the player's points and challenged him on one of them but instead of replying to my post he hammered me. He turned out to be mafia.
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Post Post #281 (isolation #14) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:35 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 272, lucca261 wrote:I'm starting to think that there is no scum on that wagon, save for maybe Huntress.
I'm tempted to agree with you, if you substitute Sensfan for me there.


Current scumreads are Sensfan, Loopdan and Fred. Not necessarily in that order.
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Post Post #284 (isolation #15) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:02 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 283, SensFan wrote:lucca and huntress have been the two that have stood out to me as particularly scummy in the early parts of today. Huntress in particular seems super eager to put all of a D1 lynch on one person, and has been around the block way too much to seriously think that 'one time someone did this thing and was Scum' is at all relevant.
Did I say you were scum because of it?. Nope. I was just saying that you shouldn't be given town points for it as scum do it too. Your claiming lucca forced your hand over it when he was asking for more time, that was scummy though.
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Post Post #329 (isolation #16) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:53 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 296, Loopdan wrote:@Sens & @Brie -- Let's townbloc this for the win. Requesting more votes on lucca.

@Rask & @Sickofit -- You are the backup townbloc. Be prepared to be called up if the situation deteriorates.

@Huntress, @Fred, @Lucca -- sry fam
Townblocks, especially where there's no solid information, tend to be either led by or include scum, which I think is very likely the case with this one.
In post 306, Sickofit1138 wrote:why was there a no-kill? If there was a bulletproof that was hit please claim.
A BP isn't told if they've been hit.
In post 307, Sickofit1138 wrote:If there is a doctor in this setup what are the advantages/disadvantages of them claiming?
The obvious one is that they get killed. But that's better than getting lynched.
In post 315, Sickofit1138 wrote:I mean I understand doctor not claiming would be good but why not BP? Waiting for L-1 to claim BP does nothing.
Mainly because scum won't know why their kill failed, so can't be sure what will happen next time. If a BP claims they will know what the setup is.
In post 311, Loopdan wrote:@Huntress - In your role as IC, would you mind explaining optimal town play regarding town PR claims?
I don't think there is a set answer to this. It very much depends on what information the PR's have, or can deduce, and only they can make that decision. Size and type of game feeds into it too. The danger of leaving it until mylo/lylo is that there's little or no risk in scum counterclaiming, or even pre-empting the claim, but claiming earlier has its disadvantages too. A cop, for example, is very unlikely to get another result. And then there're all the pros and cons of mass-claim. I think this is a subject best raised in the discussion forum after the game where the strategists can weigh in on it.
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Post Post #330 (isolation #17) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:35 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 292, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:What was so weird about Loopdan's question about SensFan's vote?
It seemed odd that Loop would even follow it up let alone pursue a discussion about it. What reason do you see for Loop doing that?


@ Mod: Re: the last VC - Sickofit1138 is voting Raskolnikov.
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Post Post #378 (isolation #18) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:29 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 332, Sickofit1138 wrote:Hmm I always assumed BP was told if he was hit or not. My bad.
Not telling seems to be the standard used in newbie games although I can't actually find it written down anywhere. I'll have another look later.


Narrowing down my scumlist further I'm not seeing Sensfan and Loopdan as partners and Sensfan looks the more town of the two. Loop also looks more like a possible partner for Fred. They voted each other towards the end of Day one, but not till it was fairly safe to do so, and Loop started the wagon on lucca after Fred had attracted a couple of votes toDay. He keeps listing Fred as scum but hasn't said why. I'm fine with lynching either of them.

Vote: Frederick
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Post Post #396 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:20 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 379, Loopdan wrote:@Huntress-- Why aren't you answering ? Who are your town reads?
Why do you need to know? I don't often do full read lists in the first Day or two of a game, but at the moment my town reads are basically everyone who I'm not calling scum.
In post 380, Loopdan wrote:If Fred flips scum, that vote by Huntress looks like a bus combined with the foundation for her mislynch push on me tomorrow.

So let's make this L-1.
So you decided it was time to bus and are making a pre-emptive defense? If Fred flips scum, this vote by Loopdan looks like a bus combined with the foundation for his mislynch push on me tomorrow. Yep, it works that way round too.


@ Fred:
Did you overlook the question I asked in ?
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Post Post #476 (isolation #20) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:35 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 397, Loopdan wrote:Scum often prefer not giving townreads as it limits their lynch options. You have noticeably not offered TRs.
Scum like knowing everyone's townreads as it helps them to plan. That's why I asked you why you needed to know - a question you didn't answer.


@ Sickofit:
Those posts of lucca's listed in would be a useful tell if they weren't followed up, but they were, every time, so why are you taking them out of context?
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Post Post #477 (isolation #21) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:47 pm

Post by Huntress »

I've read through the discussion between Rask and Sensfan, and I think all I've got to say about it is that it seems to be more about a clash of playstyles than anything else.
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Post Post #520 (isolation #22) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:32 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 483, Loopdan wrote:
In post 468, Loopdan wrote:So I put Fred at L-1. Then all hell breaks loose with accusations and votes moving around.

Yeah, I feel pretty good about the Fred wagon. If Fred is town I don't think the game loses focus off him like that. And if Fred flips scum, we need to examine the last couple pages Tomorrow.
Quoting myself because it is important.

I'm concerned with how Rask moved from Fred to Sens and then unvoted Sens shortly thereafter without moving back to Fred. With no stated read change on Fred.

I want to flip Fred.
Looking back I don't think the above really reflects what happened there. I think you're blowing it out of proportion a bit. It was a day later before any votes moved and I can see where Rask's vote was coming from, even though I thought it was misplaced. Not so sure about Sickofit's vote, although if he wanted a counterwagon he could have moved his vote earlier, or more probably stayed on lucca. And I think I can see where lucca is coming from too.
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Post Post #522 (isolation #23) » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:46 pm

Post by Huntress »

Hi Sobolev!

I was thinking of switching my vote to Loopdan but having read your posts, mainly , I think it's better where it is. Why try and make excuses for Fred? I know you're in the same slot but you can't know what he was thinking.
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Post Post #537 (isolation #24) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:01 am

Post by Huntress »

In post 534, Sickofit1138 wrote:what do you want me to say
Well, you could try replying to my .
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Post Post #624 (isolation #25) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:32 am

Post by Huntress »

In post 231, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 230, Raskolnikov wrote:
In post 226, Selynee wrote:Because I was pretty much useless D1 and didn't vote (though I wanted to vote Echo), my starting vote is going to be pretty risky, but I guess at this point a 50-50 read is worth it.

VOTE: Raskolnikov
I really hope you didn't just do what I think you did...
Actually nvm.
I interpreted Selynee's post as meaning that she had either blocked or tracked Rask:
1. A block would mean that Rask was either the target or mafia who tried to kill,
2. A track would mean that Rask was either the doctor or mafia who tried to kill,
hence why it was a 50-50 read and a risk.

Rask's responses looked like a town reaction to me, but not that of a VT. However, now that we know Selynee was a tracker, and Sickofit wasn't protected, it looks like Rask was the one who tried to make the kill night one.

Vote: Rask



The above was the reason I was town reading Sickofit and Rask yesterDay, and also the reason I didn't want to to discuss my townreads when Loopdan asked me for them. And he still hasn't answered my question as to why he wanted them.

I've got to go out now so I'll follow up the other posts in a few hours.
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Post Post #670 (isolation #26) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 614, lucca261 wrote:This quote by Huntress feels like once Sobolev had a good answer, she would've switched her vote to Loopdan. But if things didn't work out, she would be voting Fred.
Nope. That quote was me saying that I had been prepared to give Sobolev time as she had just replaced in, but that post had confirmed my scumread on that slot.

In post 617, Loopdan wrote:I think scum thought ^those posts weree Sick saying he doc'd Soblev and that's why scum NK'd Sick.
How does this fit in with the lack of a kill night one? Because obviously Fred wasn't the target so scum would know that wasn't the case.
In post 623, TheBrie wrote:That makes sense.
How does it make sense?
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Post Post #678 (isolation #27) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:50 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 628, Raskolnikov wrote:This is stupid, a "50-50" read is an expression not a role crumb. Not from a new player like selynee anyways, if we're arguing that a newbie advance crumbed in their first game.

At the time I made the same mistake, though I thought it was a jailkeeper save, but now I know it's not true because it simply doesn't make sense with tracker.

I believe selynee misunderstood her role; the most likely is she had 3 scumreads, she tracked one of these and got a "no-result" but interpreted it as as innocent. Then in her remaining pool was me and another which is probably why she took a shot in the dark with that read.
Not so much a crumb, as using information she had. Why doesn't it make sense with a tracker? I think your last para is very unlikely.
In post 629, Raskolnikov wrote:Sickofit's play also doesn't match that. Taking one of selynee's few posts and equating it with sickofit's entire ISO is at best somewhat naive cherrypicking if it isn't being done out of malice. It's a very dangerous thing to boot.
Then it's a good thing that isn't what I did.
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Post Post #683 (isolation #28) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:05 pm

Post by Huntress »

In post 667, TheBrie wrote:Also how long can I be V/LA without needing to be replaced?
I want to finish the game, but, starting in 4 hours, I might not be able to post till Friday.
If I haven't posted by Monday morning US time, you'll know I can't get on.
So ask me any questions you need now.
The length of time mods will allow for V/LA varies between mods but they usually allow up to a week. Send a PM to the mod to ask about this and set the V/LA flag on your user control panel.
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Post Post #693 (isolation #29) » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:21 pm

Post by Huntress »

If Rask is town, then Loopdan is most likely scum. Beyond that I don't know. My strongest townread is at the moment is TheBrie.
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Post Post #769 (isolation #30) » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:40 pm

Post by Huntress »

Well played everyone! It was a fun and drama-free game. Thanks for modding it Penguin. :D

Rask: you were looking pretty townish most of the time. If it hadn't been for the track I don't think I would have thought you were scum.

TheBrie: I liked the way you coped calmly with the early pressure and continued to scumhunt when under attack.

If anyone has any questions or wants any comments on their play, I'll do my best to answer.
In post 748, SensFan wrote:I'm still not sold Rasko can survive two lynches with the weird fakeclaim hijinks. I could be out of touch, but I still think it works as a Town gambit because your survival isn't important.
Unfortunately with the current meta scum seem to be able to get away with a lot like that just because people assume it would be too risky for scum to do, so they get town-read for it.
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