Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[singersigner]

Hi guys! Super excited to replace in because I almost thought I missed the boat!

That being said...

unvote
vote: RadiantCowbells

Read a bit but will work on catching up more. Note: I WILL NOT BE READING THE WHOLE GAME. If you all insist on continuing the same game pace, then I feel pretty strongly that I will find the reads I need to get moving forward. Any other background/context I can get via, you know...clicking on the post numbers that you ALL are so kindly linking in your responses in order to validate your scumhunting.

[singersigner]

I'm on page "you have 23 pages' worth of posts and between you and chesskid, are actively preventing the game from being reasonably flushed out by town trying to find scum."

My team just feels more strongly that chesskid is town than you are so I'm starting there.

Here's why what you are doing is very distinctly anti-town and needs to be stopped:
1. you are town: you're allowing scum to lurk and hide in your massive waves of posts
2. you are scum: you're drowning out your scummier posts and scum buddies in your massive wave of posts
3. other town: cannot realistically keep up with the information being thrown at them
4. other scum: don't have to keep up with the information being provided

Don't think I haven't noticed chesskid being equally (re: more of) a spammer, but as we're only allowed one lynch today...

Preview Edit:
@Cheeky, thanks! <3

[singersigner]

Oh! Just got clarity on this invention thing (thought it was like first four days irl of each game day but it's just first four game days until a hammer is reached).

invention vote: singersigner

(or however that works)

Reason: Reck, ily, but if you're scum can be manipulative as shit and that can be dangerous until flushed out, so I am just playing it safe.

[singersigner]

I would also be interested in a mastina lynch.

@Chesskid I will look over your notes but PLEASE TAKE A CHILL PILL. Like I said, you're not above policy like RC, just prioritizing him right now.

@Reck...but if someone is going to die, why not let it be the person who recently replaced in and doesn't have the same real-time insight an original player can give. I'm not going to prevent you from getting it if that's what it comes down to, but my stance until then is that I would just be a better candidate for it. CDB says he's been avoiding the game but if he had to venture a guess from earlier game he'd say town.

@Cheeky...no, that's not what I meant about inventions. I misunderstood and thought that in each game day, we were given 4 irl days to vote, but it's actually that we have the whole game day to vote for someone and we will revote each game day for 4 days.

Preview Edit:
Balls. Alright, good luck, Reck! May the odds be ever in our favor.

[singersigner]

FTR it's Chess lynching Mastina and Mastina lynching Reck. It's a very raunchy love triangle.

When I get caught up, I will vote for whichever of the two has the larger wagon.

I'd rather not move my vote off of Reck if he's at, saaaaay, L2, to end up vanity voting chesskid. And I won't know if that's the case until I'm caught up.

I still believe Screenplay is scum, sure, yeah...but not NEARLY to the level where I'd be really comfortable compromise-voting there. It'd be something I'd do as a last-resort, but otherwise would be something I'd be unwilling to do.

Primate's vaguely similar, although he'd be an even less comfortable vote.

And honestly, fuck lynching anyone else; I refuse

.

While I get not wanting to lynch your townreads, you're far from breaking the game if you're town. This whole attitude is anti-town because you're asking an entire game to come to a halt so that YOU can catch up at your own pace.

I get that it got to be a total cf and that it's difficult to conceptualize reading every post in the game right now, but that's your choice. You're choosing to take the time to do that knowing that 14 other people would have to twiddle their thumbs until

you're

ready.

Here's how this shakes out in my head:
1. This is a great stalling tactic. This means that mastina can take the time to mold her narrative of events knowing full well the game has moved on without her.
2. This means mastina has no accountability for what happens "without her" because she's refusing to keep up with current events at our expense.

[singersigner]

I don't buy anyone with nontrivial experience with Mastina still scumreading Mastina right now.

Well in that regard.

Most of the people in this game don't have nontrivial experience with me. Aneninen has nigh-none, Katyusha's experience with me amounts to a single game I played on an alt where I was cult, which is pretty incomparable to a game where it's confirmed to be either town or scum (given that I was neither), Hinduragi I might have a couple of really old games with but really my experience there is limited, Something_Smart I don't think has actually played with me (although he did mod one game where I was scum),

apparently singersigner is in the game but I haven't reached that part yet but I know my Primate experience was incredibly limited

, Errant most of my interactions with have been more passive, Screenplay's been in I think either two or three games with me, GuiltyLion has one maybe, Yoshi has maybe one, and CheekyTeeky has none.

Creature is the only player here aside from RadiantCowbells, Reck, and chesskid who I'd say has much in the way of experience with me.

Which, in hindsight.

I suppose does explain why I am a viable mislynch this game.

I'd have to check the teammates of the above but given that most of the players in this game have rather negligible experience with me they don't have familiarity with my antics.

Hard to claim you wouldn't know you were at L-1 for a claim and that it would be "our fault because you told us you weren't staying current blahblahblah" if you knew I was in the game.

"But singer, I clearly saw you post in a preview edit, hardly something you can claim I am following along with."

Ah, yes, but how would you then recognize I was replacing Primate?

"Because of course I wanted to know WHY you were in the game so I looked it up like any sensible person would do."

Oh sure, then why are you claiming that it would be our fault for lynching you if you can clearly see posts that are happening as you're catching up?

You can't have it both ways, mastina. You're fear-mongering us to try and avoid putting pressure on you. You're trying to give us the illusion that you're catching up in the most genuine way possible even though recognizing that I was replacing Primate is a prime example of tainting your reads. If you truly didn't want to be influenced or involved with current events, you wouldn't have bothered connecting that piece

until you got there

.

As I told my team, I'm comfortable with a mastina or RC lynch today, while I continue to try and find the lurking scum (well verdict is still out on RC on whether or not he's just policy or if there's meat behind it but stay tuned!)

[singersigner]

Can we tell her teammates to tell her to just start at page 100

I was actually just coming back to the thread to say something along these lines. And switch my vote.

If her team is letting her play by herself then ok whatever. But if any of them are following along, then they'd be encouraging this line of action.

Furthermore, if she fell behind and they knew it, they could've been in a position to help her catch up and not get behind. She not playing a very team Team Mafia.

AND I wanted to say that her refusing to acknowledge anything current means she's giving herself cart blanche to ignore any dismantling of her points as she's "catching up."

This whole thing reeks.

unvote
Vote: mastina

[singersigner]

How to Post: A Town's Guide

Step 1 -- Have a Game Propelling Point

Does your post:

• address a question by another player?
  
• defend yourself from another player's accusations?
  
• outline why we should listen to you?
  
• online why we shouldn't listen to someone else?
  
• have original content?

If you answer yes to any of those questions, great! You should probably post it.

Examples of times you should NOT be posting:

• you've already repeated this information within the last 5 pages
  
• you are posting a single word
  
• you can't sum up a singular point in less than three sentences
  
• you're being needlessly pedantic
  
• you've made more than 3 posts in a row
  
• etc

Step 2-- Make It Easy To Read

Do...

• make bullet points
  
• provide links to posts
  
• quote where applicable

Do NOT...

• write a novel
  
• have a singular run-on paragraph that hides the point of your post
  
• repeat yourself unnecessarily in the same post
  
• get into turf wars and quote walls
  
• think what you have to say is more important than people who haven't posted in while

Step 3 -- Listen to Singer

She makes good points about this game being >100 pages and difficult to keep up with. You should listen to her. It will make the game a lot more manageable for everyone, especially for town who need to sift through everything to find scum. You know who doesn't need to worry about finding scum? Scum. That's why they don't care that the game is a BAJILLION pages long. They like it this way. They should be punished.

That is all.
Game-related thoughts incoming.

[singersigner]

A couple of things you will notice about me.
1. I don't post reads lists -- especially in a game like this, the last thing I want scum to be able to do is have a directed night kill by myself simply from seeing exactly where I stand on each person in one post. If you can't get a good idea on how I feel about people, ask. Or assume that anyone I haven't explicitly commented on is null and hasn't been flushed out yet so asking my opinion is only telling me you want me to flush them out sooner. Their time will come.
2. I won't engage in a flight -- you can repeat things in my face all you want (chesskid I'm looking at you because every time someone vocalizes a discerning opinion from your own, you impulsively post to the contrary as if we don't already know how you feel)
3. I ask a lot of questions to parse through things. If it's been answered before that is my one exception to my guide on posting where you can simply quote my question and link to a post.

This is the readlist. I only added thoughts where major changes had happened.

[snip]

Lean town

GuiltyLion
Reckoner (In his latests I found genuine interest towards the game. Or how can I say it.)

Singersinger (Townish catchup, she did a lot if we consider the sheer size of the game too.)

RadiantCowbells (I'd never call him town on Day1, but his gameplay looks pro-town quite much.)

[snip]
________

You need not point out that I have too few scumreads. That concerns mee too.

Also, I'd be happier if Reckoner targetted Mastina.

I'm sorry...what??

Townish catchup??

Can you please point out where I caught up and how you thought that was particular town? Talk to me about what you consider "a lot" considering I admitted I wasn't reading the whole game and literally only responded to like 3 posts that were within the last page or two of my response.

But I made a promise and I intend to not break it. No going "fuck this" and just skipping ahead. No cheating. No looking. No nothing. I could be at L-1 and people be demanding a claim for me for fucking days and I wouldn't even know, nor would I give a damn, because that'd be your fucking fault for knowing all of this about me and then making the active choice to make it worse by continuing to spam.

But once more to reiterate since it's apparently a message you need to hear every fucking day:
I am reading as much as I can, as fast as I can. If you want me up to date. If you want my feedback fast. If you want me to respond quicker than I have been. If you want live interactions with me. If you want my feedback on CURRENT events rather than on events that are in the past. Then slow the fuck down and let me fucking read the thread because I am trying.

It weirds me out that in 2303 I asked mastina if she could catch up and interact in real time, and that she needs to catch up quickly; to see that she's put this in her first catch up post since makes me think the first snippet is just posturing and she is actually reading current + catching up.

This is the exact same thought I had when I saw this and this post.

Omfg I had to ask my team what "pocketing" was. Wtf is this meta now??

I asked my team on thoughts. Boon is the only one to answer.
He said chess town
Mastina is scum

This also is suspicious as fuck. UnaBombaH and Dunkerdoodles both are the town players I'd expect to be invested in this game and reading it.

Boonskiies is a player who is better as scum, more or less. He would be more invested in a scumgame as a result--to provide coaching. In essence, the players who if Screenplay were town would be helping him...didn't; the player who if Screenplay were scum would be helping him...did.

How much is your team following this game, mastina? Can you provide their insight, and why haven't you been using it to supplement your catch-up?

(I understand the irony of asking her questions she clearly refuses to acknowledge at this stage)

prime ate

no, it's singersigner now.

And with that godly shitpost out of the way, time to do some actual stuff.

You're clearly following along with the game if you can pick this shit out of a lineup, but it looks like you're incapable of providing real time interaction/opinions? I don't like that everything you've provided so far seems to be in retrospect with a chance to marinate and form an opinion after you've had a chance to read everyone else's. Same point about mastina that I made about fitting the narrative.

[singersigner]

Do not hammer Mastina until she posts her readlist!!!

Sure...when do you think that'll be...
Also, why a readslist over a claim...?



________________________________


People who can die who may or may not be scum:
Aneninen
RadiantCowbells
Errantparabola
mastina
GuiltyLion

[singersigner]

@Aneninen...I was asking why you demanded a reads list and no mention of a claim, specifically because you pointed out it would be at L-1.

I don't have a good feeling about you because I think your response to me entering the game was contrived and your breakdown of my ISO when questioned about it didn't really answer my question. In fact, it kind of confirmed that it was a whimsical read to throw at me because it felt safe at the time.
RC I'm working on but his flip can clarify a lot of questions with the bonus of lessening the game spam (yes I recognize that he has been holding back in the last 24 hours which I appreciate).
Errant I explained here.
GuiltyLion seems to have a decent amount of heat so that seems like someone who can also clarify some questions/reads. No opinion, yet, though.

Preview Edit:
Chess I will had you to my lynchlist in a heartbeat if you don't knock it off.

[singersigner]

@Aneninen...I was asking why you demanded a reads list and no mention of a claim, specifically because you pointed out it would be at L-1.

Again, what claim? Isn't the Setup 12 VTs 3 Mafias and the inventions?

Um...no...

I don't have a good feeling about you because I think your response to me entering the game was contrived and your breakdown of my ISO when questioned about it didn't really answer my question. In fact, it kind of confirmed that it was a whimsical read to throw at me because it felt safe at the time.

Think whatever you wish. However, I don't think my read on eg. Errant, Katyusha, GuiltyLion, Something_Smart were better, from your point of view. Why haven't you mentioned those?
Why do you think it would have been riskier if I had thrown out a scumread on you?

I haven't read your thoughts on other players so I didn't take those into account.
I think a

townlean

on me is safe because it's not committing to me being town, and you feel obligated to put me in a category. If you had said I was scum you would've had to answer for it.

Errant I explained here.

Is that all?
I had no problems with Errant's catchup. Maybe we see catchups in a different way?

Maybe. It's the same problem I have with mastina in that they're clearly keeping up with the game but aren't participating in the current state of it.

GuiltyLion seems to have a decent amount of heat so that seems like someone who can also clarify some questions/reads. No opinion, yet, though.

Or have I misunderstood you and I should have taken that "may or may not be scum" part

literally

?

Yes. Like I said, I've made my opinions on certain players in that list clear the other ones would just be convenient if they flipped scum but have no reason to stay alive.

Which part of your question have I left unanswered?

I just meant that you did an ISO to try and answer it but you called what I did a catch up, which is was not. Because I am not. And came across as "sure they're town because I know they are so I can safely call them town" with what seemed like a retroactive justification for your statement.

[singersigner]

I just meant that you did an ISO to try and answer it but you called what I did a catch up, which is was not. Because I am not. And came across as "sure they're town because I know they are so I can safely call them town" with what seemed like a retroactive justification for your statement.

Singer why aren't you pushing my locktown read on you when I haven't commented on your alignment previously?

1. I don't know what lock town is but I assume it's like SUPER ULTRA TOWN READ?
2. Because you didn't add any caveat that made it seem like an outright wrong motivation for labeling it. As it stands it's just an empty read, and seeing as I don't make it a habit to question accurate reads on me until something else pings my scumdar, I just hadn't processed it as relevant.

GuiltyLion seems to have a decent amount of heat so that seems like someone who can also clarify some questions/reads. No opinion, yet, though.

do you have any questions/reads in particular for me and do you have an opinion on the "heat" that I've received?

also thank you for 2878 that's the 2nd best post of the game after Reck's scummastina video

*bows*

And not yet. I tried isoing you as your name came up and the only thing I found in particular was that I disagreed with one of RC's reasons you're scum being because you ask a lot of questions. That particular playstyle resonates with me since I do the same thing when I start a game. I can't say I'll ask a lot of questions here, though, unless I'm alive D2 and it'll feel like a reset. I also don't always follow through with my line of questioning unless I disagree with the answers I get, in which case it looks like apathetic playing or "feigning" activity.

Anyway. I don't hate you yet. Just figured I need to flush out my own opinions before I go knocking down others'.

[singersigner]

Mastina is at L-1 with expressed intent to hammer.

[singersigner]

Huh, vengeful seems like a weird invention to have since they're all public. Whoever we vote for we're essentially saying we don't want them to die, since scum likely wouldn't NK someone unless they were pretty sure they'd shoot town.

Unless we were voting weighing in policy and potential scumminess because if we lynch the person elected and we're wrong they have the option of going 1:1...

[singersigner]

I think you are ruling out Aneninen prematurely. They even understand why they should be suspicious. Announcing it themselves is not a town tell. Especially in this situation where they are the last scum left trying their hardest to be town read.


Aneninen, why not unvote RC yourself to make sure there is not an accidental quick lynch. Unless you wanted to keep a certain position on the wagon?

1000% this.

I am full steam either Aneninen or Errant after RC.

I need to parse through how I feel about the vengeful after answers from beeboy (confirm that only town would get to use the shot and that it counts at any point of death).

[singersigner]

I remember someone giving an easy townread on Primate and I thought it was RC.

Meh, not going to bother checking a spam-filled ISO.

Why don't you try giving me an original read? You don't have to PoE me, yaknow...I don't exactly make it difficult to read me.

@GuiltyLion...what makes you group me into potentially bussing Mastina? What makes you think my vote was out of "inevitably happening"? After only two votes on Mastina, I said I was good with her lynch, and both Creature and BigYoshi voted pretty quickly and consecutively after that. With no momentum for a lynch, as a motherfuckingreplacement, I had no reason to vote there yet. I would very much disagree that the three of us, as the votes shook out, have any advantage of placing them as we did.

If anything, I think it's more likely that Srceenplay and Mastina counter voted and Srceenplay practically voteparked/tunneled Mastina all game. This could easily be scum placing a "safe vote" before a lynch was inevitable, and lacked a valid reason to prevent it from happening to hop off later. I DO NOT THINK THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED BUT FOR PERSPECTIVE'S SAKE.

I used night as an opportunity to catch up on other games since I wasn't sure if I'd get night killed or not, but my approach is the same. I encourage questions on specific things soooo...lemmeknow.

[singersigner]

elect: Ghostlin

I feel dirty electing anyone for this one as I feel like it's just really dumb, but as his reads currently line up with mine, keeping him alive isn't a bad thing!

@Aneninen...what the FUCK is the significance of pointing out Ghostlin's preview edit to Mastina when Mastina was still saying "hindu" was scummy?

Perfectly fine voting for RC but I would LOVE to hear more from Errant.................................

[singersigner]

singer if you think ghost is town venging him isn’t a good idea

The person we elect is tomorrow’s lynch locked in so you should probably be electing your top scumread....

also it’s not dumb at all considering we’re in evens

HM.

Fair...

I WOULD LOVE TO LYNCH ANENINEN.

I guess there's no one SUPER town I think is worth keeping alive other than myself and I don't care if I'm nightkilled because this game is zzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Only concern is if scum are trying to sway the vote to them so they don't get accidentally killed since a venge kill is the only thing they can't control...

[singersigner]

Hmm...

elect: Aneninen

[singersigner]

Given that I have landed 11/13 vig/venge shots I've taken on this site I think I should definitely be taking this invention

Elect: RC

At the risk of Katy completely fucking manipulating me...I've asked my team to advise on whether or not I'm being duped. I also have quite the success rate of venge kills but seeing as I might only get to use it if I'm night killed it'd only serve as self-preservation...I need objective observers to tell me if that's not the route we should be taking...

[singersigner]

Alright, sooooo...

People who can die who may or may not be scum:
RadiantCowbells
Aneninen
GuiltyLion
Errant

If people need Ghostlin dead tomorrow I won't prevent it but I think Aneninen would be a better choice. Either way it likely means I get my flip on Aneninen and gg?????

Will vote RC upon confirmation we have a the invention secured on someone.

[singersigner]

Hey singersigner, do you townread BYF?

I don't particularly

scum

read him, why?

[singersigner]

Hey singersigner, do you townread BYF?

I don't particularly

scum

read him, why?

EBWOP

[singersigner]

What are you getting at? Do you need me to force a read on him asap or are you trying to make it sound like no one is townreading him so he should die?

[singersigner]

Sounds like she's creating a false dichotomy for the purpose of figuring out why he can't accept a "null/haven't flushed out a read on him, yet" answer.

[singersigner]

What did I just read...

Sounds like

she

's creating a false dichotomy for the purpose of figuring out why he can't accept a "null/haven't flushed out a read on him, yet" answer.

Who are you referring to here?

Myself...I was being snarky...

Sounds like he's creating a false dichotomy for the purpose of figuring out why he can't accept a "null/haven't flushed out a read on him, yet" answer.

singersigner, do you think this scummy?

Do I think I'M scummy? This is me referring to myself, not you, if that makes a difference...

singersigner, what do you think about Errantparabola?

I think I made myself pretty clear in this post (at the bottom) and subsequent posts where I've called for his lynch.

singersigner, who do you think RC was trying to make look good D1?

That would take some ISOing...

singersigner, why do you think RC would hard-defend his buddy? Was it because his third buddy would be in a good position? If yes, then who is most likely to be that third buddy?

1. Hard-defense of someone is NAI in it of itself, you have to look at what they're saying. If a scum buddy wasn't doing anything wrong I'd poke holes in someone's argument which may or may not like like a "hard-defense."
2. Assuming RC flips scum like we think, why would the third scum being in a good position make it more likely that RC would hard-defend his buddy?
3. Uh...couldn't tell you since I'm not sure what this line of questioning has to do with finding the third scum. You could independently ask me who I think the third scum is and I'll say I've made it pretty clear in my lynch pools.

singersigner, do you have experiences with Errantparabola? Does he play like this as town¹?

¹ = I mean: making posts such as 2860 which I haven't read.

If I've played with him I couldn't tell you so I'm operating with the mentality that this is the first game I've ever played with him.

singersigner, do you think my questions are scummy?

NAI.

[singersigner]

so they don't get accidentally killed since a venge kill is the only thing they can't control...

According to the Setup there may be some PR-s around. Those might mean some more threat, I guess.
Also, we can decide whom the Vengeful should target if they happen to get Nightkilled. Not obeying could be an auto-lynch. (But that doesn't mean much, they get lynched most probably on Day3 anyway.) Point me out if my train of thoughts is flawed.

There's a pretty major flaw in auto-lynching the

night-killed

vengeful if they don't shoot our target...

I know you said a bunch of other stuff and there's been a lot of other posts but I won't have the time to flush it out until tomorrow...I just really needed to comment on this point in particular, because, well...you know...well I hope you know by now...

[singersigner]

I'll be honest, I'm not great at the whole strategic planning thing so I'm waiting for that to be flushed out before I make myself look like an idiot. >_>

I agree with Aneninen that two scum heads are better than one so leaving RC alive at this point really only benefits scum. He needs to be the lynch for today.

I have been catching up on a lot this week since my entire family got for sick the day I replaced in...I probably should've paid more attention to them instead of this game, lol. But will make it a priority to look through mastina and RC.

[singersigner]

Ok here I go...(sorry it was a long time coming...I get distracted with house hunting >_>).

Significant findings:

• RadiantCowbells mentioned Aneninen so infrequently, the two times he addressed his read on him were because he was "so conftown."
  
• OMFG IT TOOK ME TO CRL-F GUILTY TO REALIZE THAT HE'D BEEN REFERRING TO HIM AS ADENINE FUCKING SCUM FUCK
  
• My motivation just plummeted...
  
• I hate everything
  
• ISOing scum is literally the worst
  
• However VCA shows Aneninen voted for RC first
  
• What're the chances all three scum wagoned the same townie right out of the gate...
  
• Mastina's comments about Aneninen...837 feels like withholding from Aneninen...consistent scumread but never truly pushing, always calling other people out for not pushing. Devil's advocate: could be trying to get a wagon going on someone other than his scumbuddy...
  
• I skimmed through more and this caught my eye, particularly where he mentioned GuiltyLion flying under his radar. Creature seems more town because of it, though.
  
• I'm not going to lie...I didn't read much more of mastina's posts, especially the ones I hadn't already read/responded to.

I'm bored, I feel like this game stagnated and I'll take responsibility for losing steam once we nailed 2/3 scum. I think at this point we just need to agree on a plan and Take 2 tomorrow if we have to.

Now I'm distracted with Grace and Frankie...

[singersigner]

OH.

Forgot about Errant responding at some point...

My scumread on him is not just based on thinking that he's reading but not responding, it's that coupled with the fact that he has 13 posts in the entire game. My paranoid-ass says that no matter WHAT content is involved, lurking scum win games. That being said, this response makes sense that he was catching up from that point and did proceed to make a meatier post than the "joke." There's just not enough content in those 13 posts to base a substantial read.

That's why he will perpetually be included in my lynch-list.

Preview Edit:
Uh...I can go along with that understanding, but I don't looooove needing to trust someone to do the dirty work for us, lol.

Preview Edit x2:
Well you would as you're in the list, but it'd be pretty easy to include his buddy with a 100% read rate knowing he would be bullshitting either way.

[singersigner]

My scumread on him is not just based on thinking that he's reading but not responding, it's that coupled with the fact that he has 13 posts in the entire game. My paranoid-ass says that no matter WHAT content is involved, lurking scum win games. That being said, this response makes sense that he was catching up from that point and did proceed to make a meatier post than the "joke." There's just not enough content in those 13 posts to base a substantial read.

Thank you for bringing this fact up just now?? Only after I contested you about it? Like-- "hey okay, my scumread now has no water, better back it up with this new thing so I can keep having it"

Sure. I mean, it's not like I didn't request more activity from you already. And it's not like it's any secret you have the least participation in the game. Do you think I am pulling this out of my ass just because you haven't been around for a week to defend yourself?

OMFG IT TOOK ME TO CRL-F GUILTY TO REALIZE THAT HE'D BEEN REFERRING TO HIM AS ADENINE FUCKING SCUM FUCK

?

So I was trying to see who RC and mastina address more or less frequently. When I searched for your name "Anen" it barely came up in RC's ISO, and it wasn't until I started doing it with GuiltyLion that I noticed he referred to you as "Adenine."

However VCA shows Aneninen voted for RC first

That was an RVS. Actually, if my memories are correct, long ago RC and me RVS-ed each other all the time. (I should have known that something was wrong when he RVS-ed someone else lol.)

Fair...I'm also not sure why I called it VCA...I don't know how to do VCA...I really just meant "looking at votes."

What're the chances all three scum wagoned the same townie right out of the gate...

Whom are you thinking about?

You, RC, and mastina were all on Reck for a few votecounts at the beginning. I don't know if I believe that as I'm starting to convince myself you're town, but. Flushing things out...

Mastina's comments about Aneninen...837 feels like withholding from Aneninen...consistent scumread but never truly pushing, always calling other people out for not pushing. Devil's advocate: could be trying to get a wagon going on someone other than his scumbuddy...

Mind her later change. At the end of the Day she started buddy-ing me.

Yeah...I started not paying attention, but that's fair.

I'm bored, I feel like this game stagnated and I'll take responsibility for losing steam once we nailed 2/3 scum. I think at this point we just need to agree on a plan and Take 2 tomorrow if we have to.

Why do you think we're stalled?
Long ago, I had a tell called Unexpected Gamestall. Do you think it's happening? (Caveat: that tell is about 2 years old.)

To be honest, I think we're stalled because we've caught two scum, and are trying to be the most efficient to find the third but since that's not happening instantly it's just like...why not just lynch RC already, amirite.

________

We need to decide
(1) which plan we should follow, the original one (lynch RC, give the Vengeful to someone scummy) or GL's (give the Vengeful to someone scummy and make him Vengekill RC).
(2) whom do we give the Vengeful.

Unelect

Elect: Ghostlin

Willing to elect GuiltyLion or self as well.

I honestly think we should give it to someone scummy and have them shoot RC if they're not scum.

That way if we accidentally give it to scum, they don't have the night to strategize (I had to google that word's spelling because it keeps telling me it's wrong wtf) what to do with it

I'm a fucking idiot.

Now I'm back to it really not mattering as long as anyone who gets it agrees they're shooting RC.

[singersigner]

Breaking my non-mafoa related rule to say I went to school with Nick Foles.

Just saying.

We were practically acquaintances.

[singersigner]

The summary of my reads right now.

<towniest>

Creature, Singersinger
Srceenplay
Chesskid
...
Katyusha, BigYoshiFan
Something_Smart
...
ErrantParabola
...
GuiltyLion, Ghostlin

<scummiest>

I don't think I could salvage anything more out of the game right now.

So, unless someone has something important to do, let's decide which plan to follow and move on.

Can you talk to me about how you put me so high on your list? It started out as a town-lean which you explained, but I can't seem to find how your read on me evolved, really.

[singersigner]

Ok so I just realized that we should lynch RC instead of vigging him because he can come in and hammer town, messing with the votes, etc. Once he's out of the way then we can work confidently knowing that only one scum left manipulating the show.

Yeah?

[singersigner]

Ok so I just realized that we should lynch RC instead of vigging him because he can come in and hammer town, messing with the votes, etc. Once he's out of the way then we can work confidently knowing that only one scum left manipulating the show.

Erm... I've been saying this for a while...

Fair. It did feel like an original thought, though.

Thoughts on Katy's rebuttal? I guess it doesn't really matter.

Would be willing to give it to you, GuiltyLion, or Ghoslin. And then vig RC.

[singersigner]

i wanna apologize to u RC I've been in a situation where I was confscum but the town decided to keep discussing and it was super not fun so i feel u

You're not exactly doing anything to move things along with no vote for either RC or the invention...

And two people needs prods at this point.

Bah.

elect: Ghostlin

Let's do this.

[singersigner]

VOTE: Ghostlin

For now.

What does "for now" mean?

vote: Ghostlin

[singersigner]

RC is definitely not a traitor, and he is most definitely fucking with us now. It's all WIFOM. Either we believe him and follow through with Ghostlin lynch and GG, or we don't believe him, second guess ourselves, and try to outplay known scum. This is the downside to drawing things out with known scum.

Preview Edit:
I will lynch whothefuckever at this point.

[singersigner]

RC is definitely not a traitor, and he is most definitely fucking with us now. It's all WIFOM. Either we believe him and follow through with Ghostlin lynch and GG, or we don't believe him, second guess ourselves, and try to outplay known scum. This is the downside to drawing things out with known scum.

Preview Edit:
I will lynch whothefuckever at this point.

Caveat...of RC or Ghostlin, lol.

[singersigner]

unvote
vote: RadiantCowbells

[singersigner]

My first thought was that that kill probably comes from someone who was calling Kat strongly town. (Although I didn't say anything I was actually starting to not like her posts near the end of the day.)

However, I think it's more likely that RC just told his partner who to kill.

What makes you think this? For either theory.

[singersigner]

@beeboy...is the doctor self-targetable?

[singersigner]

Ok but you realize that you don't have to call someone town to think they won't be lynched, right? That's where my confusion is. Your speculation makes no sense because scum can make up whatever reads they want and try to justify them however they can, because they'll know the outcome.

Like, as scum, I could easily night kill Aneninen, someone I've been calling scummy for a while, simply because I don't think I'll ever get him lynched based on everyone else's town reads of him.

Saying she would only be killed by someone who called her town is dumb speculation for the sake of speculation. Furthermore, it sounds like a premeditated statement that you are preemptively defending with your "well I know I called her town but I didn't actually think that towards the end so please believe me so it doesn't look bad."

[singersigner]

Ok but you realize that you don't have to call someone town to think they won't be lynched, right? That's where my confusion is. Your speculation makes no sense because scum can make up whatever reads they want and try to justify them however they can, because they'll know the outcome.

Can? Sure. Are likely to? Doubtful.

I don't see why scum would fake a scumread on someone they believe to be widely townread.

(Unless they're making a refuge in audacity play which I'm reasonably certain does not apply to anyone here.) The whole point of playing scum is to get townies mislynched and to not get lynched yourself. If you claim to scumread someone who is widely townread, (a) you're going to have to push them even though you know you'll never mislynch them, and (b) you're going to look suspicious for attacking someone whom everyone trusts.

Congratulations. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

Like, if it was that binary this game would be a whole lot easier, don't you think?

[singersigner]

Congratulations. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

Like, if it was that binary this game would be a whole lot easier, don't you think?

If you're implying that scum would do it because I said they wouldn't, that doesn't make any sense because they'd already have done it. And I don't think they could have predicted that someone would say that...

I'm implying that the very fact you said it would be a dumb idea is the reason scum would do it. Scum follow patterns, sure, but if they always did the strategically best thing then it would become too predictable and no longer be the strategically best thing.

I'm also saying that it would be really easy for me as scum to feign effort by pushing someone I know won't get lynched and staying off a wagon I know will. If town is doing the work for me I can keep my options open elsewhere.

So saying, very specifically, that you think Katy was killed by someone calling her town has no substance since you didn't even bother expanding on that theory like WHO. Coupled with the fact that you then made am addendum about how it couldn't be you because you actually found her scummy despite not expressing that sentiment...all very calculated, imo.

[singersigner]

Also, I forgot how V/LAs work so I'm out of town until Sunday night but will be able to check in via phone, just not with an ability to do more serious analysis until Monday.

[singersigner]

elect: BigYoshiFan
vote: Ghostlin

I feel very strongly that if all of Aneninen, Ghostlin, GuiltyLion, and Errant die, we will win.

[singersigner]

@Aneninen...apathy is also very good for scum if they're not wishing to stand out for lack of activity. It means they have to expend less energy and are less likely to get caught by not being pressured to post.

[singersigner]

I feel very strongly that if all of Aneninen

, Ghostlin, GuiltyLion, and Errant

die, we will win.

basically same, but this

VOTE: Aneninen

BYF who would you doc here if you receive it? or are you of the "let's not decide publicly on doc protect" camp?

1. Did I miss where you went down the Aneninen-scum rabbit hole somewhere?
2. Why do you make not publicly announcing it sound like a bad thing?

[singersigner]

@Ghostlin

- who do you currently want to venge?

Since the doctor can't self-target, I think we should elect a scummier player and make them promise to protect Smocaine or Creature.

I'm actually thinking now that Anenien is the last scum. The way he formulaically stuck to his "scum didn't bus Mastina" gamestate view on D2 and shaded my slot throughout while still pushing Ghostlin - essentially putting us on the same tier - feels like scum that needs a bunch of mislynches. Add in the repeated "I shouldn't live until LYLO" mantra for WIFOM, his reluctance to conftown the Smocaine slot (also saying that the slot shouldn't be alive in LYLO?), and his general "lynchpool" approach and it doesn't feel to me like genuine sorting, more like trying to establish a favorable chain of lynches and encourage town infighting.

@Anen - can you break down why you keep saying Smocaine shouldn't be alive in LYLO? what difference does it make lynching him earlier rather than later, and isn't that dependent on his alignment? What is gained by lynching him at 5p rather than 3p?

Found it.

Obviously om confbiasing it but it's kinda meh?

[singersigner]

@mod...can we get a votevote count?

I'm ready to lynch someone.

[singersigner]

What do you think of Ghostlin's sudden post right after I called out everyone who had posted elsewhere but not here?

It's not great.

But he's also right, so.

Also, why can't we elect Errant instead of Yoshi? I've already expressed my reasons for that.

I'm fine with Errant or Yoshi.

Feel free to elect me instead. I'm also ready to end the day. I'd probably add vonflare and singer to singer's pool.

My death pool? You want to include two people to my death pool...making it six people...out of ten...

[singersigner]

Well, I'd remove me.
Can we decide on who ghostlin kills before we lynch him?

So why would you add me?

[singersigner]

What do you think of Ghostlin's sudden post right after I called out everyone who had posted elsewhere but not here?

It's not great.
But he's also right, so.

What was right?

That he wasn't magically involved in other parts of the site outside of this game.

I'm fine with Errant or Yoshi.

Why not Errant then?

Because Yoshi has more traction and this game has fucking stalled. How is that not obvious?

My death pool? You want to include two people to my death pool...making it six people...out of ten...

Did he mean that? Why would you add yourself?

1. I don't know, hense the question mark...
2. I wouldn't add myself, that was him saying he wanted to add 2+4 that included me. He didn't say he precluded himself until after I questioned it. *shrug*

Can we decide on who ghostlin kills before we lynch him?

I'm not sure whether it's a good idea or not. In theory, if we decide it together, we'll see whether his target has objections. But that can be faked by the scum too.
But he definitely should pick one of these: GuiltyLion, Errant, Aneninen

________

I'm ready to end the Day.
Let's lynch either Ghostlin or GuiltyLion.
If we don't give the Invention to Errant, I can elect BigYoshiFan too.

Why were you questioning why i wouldnt elect Errant if you're 1. Calling to end the day, and 2. Willing to elect Yoshi anyway.

[singersigner]

I know my wiki is outdated but the answer is here.

Yes but that is factually not what's happening so the point is moot.

I mean, I'm still fine lynching him, but like, at least use accurate information to substantiate your theories/tells...

[singersigner]

But wasn't he posting elsewhere?

Not like you're implying, no.

His activity has been consistently inconsistent. He did not post in this game from ~Saturday to ~Wednesday and I am not really given any reason to believe that he otherwise could've.

[singersigner]

Toiletpost.
I thought he had posted in other games. I only checked his post list not his post themselves.

I still think his instant showingup was terrible.

I guess we could lynch him and if you all wish, he can vengekill me. And if it's not over, lynch GL Tomorrow.

I don't disagree. I just think we all have the tendency to respond to things only addressed to us, so I wanted to make sure you weren't throwing out false information for the sake of (accidentally or not) boosting your point. That we can discuss further after TM has concluded.

[singersigner]

Agreed. I'm wishing for people to come in and vote or persuade why people should follow them. This apathy is killing me.

[singersigner]

If this doesn't end the game I'm ok with a vig on GuiltyLion or Aneninen. Aneninen's recent posts kind of reads like scum losing control of the game because town neither doing what he wants them to do nor imploding.

[singersigner]

Here's hoping town BYF didn't use the doc last night but I wouldn't blame him if he did.

Looking at Vonflare now.

[singersigner]

Ugh, that didn't tell me anything.

Would like BYF to chime in before tracker votes. I'll let him decide what that means.

[singersigner]

Invention should be given to someone really scummy.

My team agrees.

This invention thing is really starting to suck. I feel like the scummier ones are the ones not making good choices, so why do we want to trust them with a PR. That being said, I recognize that we've only flipped goons so far so they are likely without anything either and the only strategy is to avoid town getting them.

Vonflare was probably a less than ideal kill for scum over someone like me or Smocaine. A kill is better than no kill and confirmation. So with that knowledge I'm probably an idiot for thinking there was any strategy to it anyway.

My thoughts at this point:
-Errant hasn't changed, how anyone can be this MIA in a game and not be considered scummy is beyond me. Patrick was trying to dig up meta on this and his only experience was EP lurking as scum (I've asked him to find it for reference, will post when he does). No town meta to back up any difference, though.
-Aneninen flip really bums me out because I wanted to break the game...
-Will plan on doing vote/elect analysis (read: going with my gut). Does anyone have anyone on their team who might be willing to do this/feels like they're better at it?
-Last ditch paranoia that chesskid hard bussed his buddies and replaced out once it worked to avoid having to answer to not being nightkilled since a replacement can't answer to that. I hate myself a little bit for this one, though...
-I had zero gut reads on anyone else in this game so...sorry. -_-

[singersigner]

Would like BYF to chime in before tracker votes. I'll let him decide what that means.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

Well I was trying to leave it up to your interpretation on whether or not to say if you used the protect and who you used it on.

Not sure why you claimed using it knowing there was a one-shot tracker option...

[singersigner]

Is there some inside joke I'm not getting?

[singersigner]

I'm starting to think both GL and EP will flip town because RC should be more competent than that.

I think it's Something_Smart. Scum!him knows how to look towny without actually scumhunting.

Can you elaborate on these points? What's the reference to RC about and what does scum SS actually look like?

[singersigner]

You look pretty meh. You haven't done something major like the players that were nightkilled or some that are alive rn, and I know your scumgame gets to LyLo without doing anything major.

So what have the current players done that he hasn't?

[singersigner]

Still, RC should've instructed scum to do more than what GL and EP are doing rn.

I feel like any scum partner would do that but that's not going to make them listen.

This is just such a weird thing to not scumread them for, lol.

How do you feel about SS's response to you?

[singersigner]

WE GON LOSEEE

You don't seem to be doing much to prevent that...

[singersigner]

Alright all, I've asked my team to take a look at this game because I just came off of a 20hr shift and have another 10hr shift tonight with a packed schedule to catch up on through Wednesday. I hope I'll have something coherent to post with their help soon.

[singersigner]

Ok so here's what I've got before heading out again --

Creature has a general consensus of "wouldn't pick scum" and less likely to pull off a great double-bus based off his reads of Mastin and RC.

Same for chesskid being unlikely to double-bus.

Lol, apparently I missed where my team was making fun of EP's readlist before I replaced in since it all amounted to neutral (though I think I picked up on that when replacing in anyway...just missed my team's teasing ). It looked/s unnatural since it should've been pretty easy to at least throw a read on someone.

I only got minor feedback on BYF which amounted to "don't remember his posting" so I'll see if anyone else comes back with anything more substantial than Patrick (yes Patrick I'm calling you out ).

GuiltyLion seems to be the most scumread in that none of his posts have given town vibes.

At this point I'm fine with assuming it's one of EP or GL but I'm not voting anywhere until the rest of my team checks in and I can funnel their thoughts.

[singersigner]

I mean, I will. I'm just hoping my team can see something I'm not right now.

"Throwing a read" = gut anything. I'm not saying you had to artificially inflate anything, but the fact that you claim you couldn't concerns me. I get not having opinions, I often have very few, but I can offer a few where I'm able. Being non-committal means you can just go with the popular opinion which is a really convenient place for scum to position themselves in.

Why do you even play if you don't/won't have opinions on the game?

[singersigner]

what is the "type of thing" I'm doing here that you would expect me to do as scum?

Trying to keep your options open as much as possible and trying to establish the exact set of actions required for you to make it to LYLO.

I'm not saying you wouldn't do it as town but it's exactly what I'd expect scum-you to try.

this doesn't really make sense - what options have I been trying to keep open for myself? Which of those three posts is doing that? I'm readily accepting the lynch today

push Smart on this tomorrow if he isn't tracker cleared, he's probably the mandatory lynch if EP dies tonight.

also I think EP's posts today have felt hella town

How?

[singersigner]

I'm going to leave this here before I rake up 30 pages myself. To be continued.

Summary of my evening:

Hinduragi, xRECKONERx, Something_Smart town.
Possibly scum but not ISO'd yet: GL, RC.

Previous lock town reads: Yoshi, ErrantParabola, Creature, Singersigner.
Previous scum read: Aneninen.

Well, there are still like 20 minutes of pro-towness to make use of.

What does everyone think about electing a scum/scum read to hide behind a scum/null read?
I think it’s to dangerous to have a town read in the mix. I would rather risk someone unsorted or hard to sort.

Omg GL is scum af - I remember his message from Dino that I'm town for this train of thought alone - but he neglected to mention srceenplay or RC for being the first to mention it prior to me.

I have some ideas for why this might be but most of them end in a GL scum conclusion.

@GuiltyLion wh4t is your reason for this please?

Hi GL

Answer please.

@p-edit: Cheeky the Dino "cheeky town because of her bad hider plan" thing wasn't a serious read/justification, we just both happened to be on Discord and talking about the game at the same time and he threw that comment out and I repeated him

What's your read on me now and why?

Interestingly enough, this was the final progression of thoughts from Cheeky regarding GuiltyLion. Also doesn't point to EP killing someone who was explicitly townreading him...

[singersigner]

Well, I was hoping there'd be a votecount up before announcing that I know what I'm going to do buuut...

Now that we have a Mina on our team I'm going to see if there's any fresh perspectives/opinions on this game.

Otherwise I'm going to vote GuiltyLion and Elect EP...

when the time comes

.

[singersigner]

Oh, lol, well that also works.

Ok so lurky lurky what's going on with this game??