Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

[T S O]

JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY

[T S O]

@TSO

I have read your previous games and note that you are student, with periodic assignments and exams. I remember being a student, I had advance notice of each. If due to those RL impediments you know in advance you going to be unable to have a timely commitment to being responsive in the thread please say so in advance to avoid me getting the wrong impression... or the right one.

Yeah, I should be relatively active, and don't expect to have to replace out as my exams have just finished and aren't until 3/4 months.

hi guyz

wats going on

I consider using this in RVS cheating - we're all risking stuff to make the game and you're sitting there playing it safe. I am disappoint.

What's your interest with TSO?

We just played a game together. We have water under the bridge, at least in part it is now I hope clear its not bad blood under the bridge.
(testy and walking on eggshells maybe, but not yet blood

You were town, I was scum. We both played to our win conditions - I see no reason at all why there'd be issues.

JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY

[T S O]

*coughs*

JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY

[T S O]

hi guyz

wats going on

I consider using this in RVS cheating - we're all risking stuff to make the game and you're sitting there playing it safe. I am disappoint.

And yet you didn't put your vote into play, and your opening post was a buncha fluff. You've done exactly what you accuse VM of doing. FoS here.

Did no-one pick up on this being a joke? Really?

JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY

[T S O]

okay so tso is town!

sorry

And yet you didn't put your vote into play, and your opening post was a buncha fluff. You've done exactly what you accuse VM of doing. FoS here.

Did no-one pick up on this being a joke? Really?

JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY JABBERWOCKY

Where's the joke? Is it that you lurked the first 48 hours of the game away and then the first thing you did was pop in and accuse someone of not contributing?

...no, your reading comprehension has malfunctioned. The joke was in the post I quoted. That's why I quoted it, you see.

Do you feel forgetting about the game means that jokes are immediately disallowed?

[T S O]

oh, Valk - is my towngame really that easy to differentiate?

[T S O]

Yeah, I'm not hip to your jive, help me get withit, Jack.

Translation, I still see no joke, unless it's the "jabberwocky beetlejuice" thing you're doing, which isn't what I was referring to in the first place. As for the whole "no jokes allowed" thing, not all, I'm just busting your balls because that's what I do.

Why did you forget about the game?

I was mock-criticising the way mollie opens every game with the same post. You may not find it funny when you go back to re-read it because, although it was truly top-class humour, it may have been scrutinised an inch too far.

I forgot because gm didn't send me a link to the game thread with the d1 start PM and I basically forgot until I looked at my inbox.

[T S O]

It is? Do tell.

[T S O]

I'm not getting a TSO Town read yet either. He has playful posts right now, but isn't committing to anything, yet. We'll see if this is going to be a trend. I think I may be able to successfully sort a scum TSO.

My interest for the game rises!

[T S O]

VOTE: Valkyrie Mollie

answer yo fucking questions shitlord

[T S O]

I was genuinely considering having a post restriction to amuse myself, but decided against it.

[T S O]

but would I really pick it up and drop it as scum

ask yourself this

[T S O]

I am going to reveal a giant secret - I have not been reading the game and have no idea whatsoever is going on.

But I am going to rectify it!

[T S O]

Yeah, catch-up time!

[T S O]

In the first three pages I expected there to be something of value but there is quite literally nothing.

[T S O]

I am "confused" about WP's babbling for two pages. More joking around than anything else (the whole thing was a response to tier's "idk tldr".

I think Brantz is scum this game, guys, I hate this post.

a Chatty Cathy

Never say this again ever. Thank you.

Farside, you literally have described the opposite of my playstyle regardless of alignment. That puzzles e. Town lean for now with a dose ofwtf

I don't understand how this read works, at all, unless your opinion of farside is quite low.

I am "confused" about WP's babbling for two pages. More joking around than anything else (the whole thing was a response to tier's "idk tldr".

This is scum.

Well excuse me for joking around in RVS while people were drunk spamming.

VOTE: Brantz

I could get behind a mollie or DDD lynch, but why Brantz?

Me and Beli's reads really should not be diametrically opposed after 5 pages. This does not make me feel good about Belisarius.

What qualifies as an "easy" wagon, and what makes it a wrong choice?

A large amount of votes on one player without commensurate justification, and what makes it wrong is the lack of commensurate justification.

I don't like this post at all, either, it's really stilted and awkward.

Tier thinks I made a bad post. Refuses to vote me.
Tier has posts denying he has read the thread while selectively responding to content. #91
Tier has provided no content.
Tier has refused to vote me despite being the only player he reacted negatively to.

I'll need to look into the first two points a bit more, I guess, I didn't really notice them standing out on my initial re-read. The last two are just stupid, though.

@far: It isn't vm town reading people that's the problem. It's vm calling them unlynchable on page 5 that bugs me. Also, it's unnecessary for me to talk about town reads? Right... got it.

VOTE: farside

This is the shittiest vote ever. I want Brantz dead now.

I swear every time I log into this account the skin changes.

@far: It isn't vm town reading people that's the problem. It's vm calling them unlynchable on page 5 that bugs me. Also, it's unnecessary for me to talk about town reads? Right... got it.
VOTE: farside

VOTE: BRantz

Sorry mollie but there's no way I can pass that post without voting the hell out of it <3

[/quote][/quote]

This sequence actually makes me think VM-town! Which is definitely a good thing.

[T S O]

But if you connect that post with 171 you just might have enough to vote him!

This makes me feel mildly uneasy, but I'm not really sure why.

Hi yeah: you're the only one who's given me a reason I understand to suspect Brantz. I just don't think it's good enough

I don't think you're reading the game, coming from someone who wasn't reading the game.

Actually, that fuckup is making me doubt by scumread. Fuck you very much for that. Now I have to think.

...What fuckup? The accidental pluralization of the word "post"?

Does that even qualify as a fuckup? Is there a quantifiable difference between saying "Belisarius disagreed with a post" and "Belisarius disagreed with multiple posts"? The message is the same, the conclusion is the same; Titus said X and you didn't like X.

I mean unless I'm an idiot (probable) and I've missed something, this just feels nitpicky and strange.

Hey, I like this post!

What up bitchess

HITMEN GO

How did you get "mafia traitor" out of that?

Reading comprehension RUS. I just glanced at his post and

assumed

, gasp, he was Town claiming. I didn't think he'd be honest! Honest scum are rare.

I have foot in mouth disease.

My psychoanalyst/doc will fix me.

This feels a little bit like WP panicking and trying to appear nonchalant and not quite pulling it off.

Idle thought, then I'll go away for awhile. I haven't picked up any scum reads. At least none I'm sure are scum reading me. This makes me wonder about some of those Town reading me. Now I'm not trying to bring division, I'm just saying Town reading me isn't going to preclude a read from where they are currently standing on other things. I want to trust my allies, and hopefully we'll form a killer Town bloc, but I want more ...

Call me greedy.

In my spare time, I'm gonna list out everyone, who they're scum and Town reading, add in votes. Divide by hours between posts. See who they don't address. Multiplied by the number of words averaged in said posts. Seubtract attitude, and see if I can make a New and Improved scumputer (don't tell DGB!).

Yeah, this posts makes me feel openly paranoid of WP-scum.

Sigh.

ftr, I thought tso was town cos I thought he had a pr

This makes sense to me.

and gm responded to it.

This does not - I'd like this explained further, thanks.

[T S O]

I will tell you what I told guy. far threw suspicion at titus for being more vocal than usual which was kind of funny cos I don't think titus is being very vocal at all. to me it reads as a bullshit meta read that 1 is likely to give on a scummate to create some distance but then she leaped all over me when I disagreed with her despite me being the 1 to provide evidence in a game where titus was pretty much pl-ed cos of excessive and noise generating. she then shifts the goalposts to change her narrative that we must be scum cos I am supposedly accusing her of lying. her logic makes no sense.

This makes sense from a surface pov where I haven't looked at the interactions in-depth.

How sure are you on this?

if you look at how titus reacted to far first to try to tell far that what people are saying is correct but she puts it in a way that doesn't make waves and then later townreads far for bullshit meta reasons of her own. this is pretty classic scum!titus talking about a teammate.

Can you show us meta of this happening before?

[T S O]

Elbirn reminds me of one of my scumgames a while back where I tryharded like fuck - I don't feel comfortable townreading him yet.

I also have yet to find a solid townread. This is not a good thing.

[T S O]

I'm finally caught up though!

[T S O]

Me and Beli's reads really should not be diametrically opposed after 5 pages. This does not make me feel good about Belisarius.

Have you just crossed over from the Mirror Universe? The only clear memory I have of our reads ever being particularly synched was Street Racers: London. Remember how town I was that game? I mean, I flipped cop and everything.

I do, however, have very clear recollections of not understanding your reads on numerous occasions.

Well, my reads were pretty damn good in SR.

Your point about our reads usually being different doesn't do it for me. After a day or so? Perhaps. After 5 pages, most of them garbage? No.

To TSO. you said nothing but good things about me, then threw it out the windown with "elbirn trys Too hard to be town"? Literally what? If you read any of my games you'd see I play this way every game. It's a side effect of me having an Internet addiction and too much free time. but you don't say it based on my own playstyle, you compare it to yourself, which is just invalid and hokey.

I think I said I liked one of your posts. This is not the same as praising you repeatedly.

I am saying the playstyle you use is easy to townread, from experience, as either alignment, and am encouraging caution towards carelessly doing that.

[T S O]

This feels a little bit like WP panicking and trying to appear nonchalant and not quite pulling it off.

Can you expand on the panic part? How is misreading a post where I assumed he was going to Town claim, panicking?

It's because the post itself feels awkward and fake. You make bad jokes and add smilies in an attempt to seem playful. I read this as fake, because it is. I think scum are a lot more likely to fake nonchalance and easiness than town.

Yeah, this posts makes me feel openly paranoid of WP-scum.

At that moment in the game, I was openly paranoid of my Town reads. I'd

almost

guarantee some, if not all of the scums were taking a wait and see approach at the time.

And so, you tried to foster paranoia in the town instead. That's very pro-town play.

@ T S O

Did you read 171? What is it about 177 that makes you

mildly

uneasy? You called the vote in the post (171) the "shittiest ever" and " I want Brantz dead now." This doesn't seem to gel good with your other reads.

I have no idea how a Brantz scumread "doesn't gel good" with my other reads, seeing as I have been calling for his death since I started reading.

Did you read what I posted at all?

I also have yet to find a solid townread. This is not a good thing.

There's good reasons scum would say this. It's like saying "none of you are as Townie as me" with the added benefit of not having to give good reads. T S O's read's are superficial enough to look real, without adding anything new or shaking the boat much.

How is "I have no townreads" saying "I'm the most town player in the game"? How could you possibly make that connection when it doesn't exist?

In relation to my reads not "adding anything new", and you using this as a reason to call me scum - I should really make it clear to you how ridiculous a reason this is for scumreading me. Some of my reads aren't actually standard - Belisarius is not a common scumread, for example, as far as I can see.

In fact, in the exact same post, you went on to explain multiple reads you and I differed on - how can you reconcile saying "your reads are the same as everyone else - you're scum" with saying "I'm townreading loads of people you aren't - you're scum" ...?

I'm Town reading Belisarius(whom T S O is scum reading) and VM (T S O is Town/scum reading this slot), and have a slight scum read on BRantz. T S O appears to Town read Elrirn up to his last post, then declares he doesn't trust him yet.

Then you should explain your reads, rather than pretend that it's a reason to call me scum. I outlined broadly posts I did not like by both these players. In comparison, you've shitposted and haven't done so.

[T S O]

Your point about our reads usually being different doesn't do it for me. After a day or so? Perhaps. After 5 pages, most of them garbage? No.

So you're saying that in a high noise, low signal environment, our reads should somehow match, but they'd be different given more information, assuming we're both town. Stipulation rejected. We form reads differently, you and I, and using a disparity between our reads as the basis of a scumread makes about as much sense as using the average level of precipitation in Bishkek over the last 7 days to determine a player's alignment.

In a high noise, low signal environment, the lack of signal should mean our reads converge more closely. I am using signal as the basis for my reads - so the only way that our reads can differ is if you are using noise as the basis for yours, which is terrible play, or if you are interpreting the signal differently to me - which I find hard to understand, given how limited it is.

[T S O]

This makes me feel mildly uneasy, but I'm not really sure why.

Your posts are full of this kind of thing and you tell me I'm shit posting?

Let's just say, even if you're Town, I doubt we'll be agreeing on much.

If we compare the ratio of shitposts of yours to mine, it will be at least 5:1. This isn't a conversation which you can win. It's also not a profitable conversation for me. Drop it and go be useful by explaining your reads.

[T S O]

Also, why is it significant that my reads differ from yours, but the same difference in every other player is irrelevant?

Yours were just the first person I noted as having markedly different reads from myself.

[T S O]

As with the rest of you :S

Hitmen forever.

So TSO your entire case for why I am scum is that I made a joke, and that you didn't like one of my votes? (which you then ignored the entire conversation between farside and I about the situation afterward). Color me unimpressed by your analysis.

I haven't made a "case" for why you're scum. I simply picked out occasional stuff I disliked from you in my catch-up. I couldn't quote everything - as it was, my walls were long enough. I feel no need to make a case on you because plenty of others are doing it for me.

This does not - I'd like this explained further, thanks.

We thought you had a pr thus town <- you understood this part.
Because gm confirmed it <- This was us explaining that we believed you genuinely had a pr since mod responded to it.

Do mods often respond to PR's? Can you or mollie show me instances where it's happened before?

This makes sense from a surface pov where I haven't looked at the interactions in-depth.

How sure are you on this?

She's very sure on that believe me considering half of time what she says to me is "my god she(far)'s such scum!"

Tell her the ship has began to sail - if she really believes far is scum and wants her lynched she needs a good case and she needs it soon.

[T S O]

@TSO, I see what Brantz is posting as pretty town..

Then we need to discuss this, because I certainly don't.

[T S O]

It's not applying my own meta to you, per se, and implying it is stupid. I am talking about the playstyle. It's a playstyle we have shared, so this is not "my meta." You know that.

My post is telling people to be cautious of townreading you. WP's post is telling everyone to be cautious of everyone. They're not of the same magnitude, but I'll concede there are parallels.

Do I particularly care? No.

[T S O]

Sera seems like the town counterwagon to BRantz, but don't mind me. Continue the lurker policy lynch.

[T S O]

Requesting Axle gets Copped or something.

[T S O]

He's definitely the most unreadable player in the thread.

[T S O]

I can't say I confidently oppose Seraphim in any way. He has a random chance of flipping scum. At the same time, I don't support lurker lynches.

[T S O]

Townreading people for usually having a decent scumgame is an extremely dangerous idea which I don't support.

[T S O]

I'm here. Nothing to say.

It's a curious situation; I don't know how to analyse it. The resistance on both wagons seems equal.

[T S O]

Bring the hammer down on BRantz, please.

[T S O]

Elbirn, I really, really like #569.

[T S O]

That's pretty funny.

[T S O]

I've considered that Axle's role made him suicide if town was lynched d1, but that doesn't explain why scum didn't powerbus him d1 for town cred.

It seems extremely likely he was vigged.

[T S O]

Actually, not even, I just reread that scum pt and you said nothing of the sort. so you're trying to discredit my thought with something you never even said, and if you had it would only have made my argument stronger.

Beli lynch now plz.

I support a Belisarius lynch. I don't really know or care why Elbirn does, but I was scumreading him d1.

[T S O]

VOTE: Belisarius

[T S O]

Vote Belisarius, or explain why you're not doing so.

[T S O]

sweetie, I'm not softing anything. that should be clear.

[T S O]

can you go through why he's town?

[T S O]

TSO do you want a hug tonight? I like hugging.

sure!

[T S O]

Tough shit Mollie. Stop stalling.

Unless you CC TSO right now, the play is to vote Beli.

um

[T S O]

I'm not softing anything. This is not a fakeout - I am not softing a guilty here.

[T S O]

NO

[T S O]

I. Am. Not. A. Cop.

I. Have. No. Guilty.
I. Have. No. Result.

[T S O]

hardclaiming a guilty are you shitting me

[T S O]

I have not been coy at all - you were the one who introduced the idea of a fakeout.

[T S O]

Beli should still die.

[T S O]

say that once more

[T S O]

okay off you go and show me where I was ambiguous

your martyr vote is meaningless, Beli's still happening

[T S O]

Anyone who thinks I was hardclaiming a guilty is a moron - one, they clearly don't know how to the ISO feature, since if they did, they'd see all my d2 has been denying this. Secondly, if I was HARDclaiming a guilty, why would I start being coy about it?

[T S O]

Titus, you literally decided that I was a Cop and made a pile of faulty assumptions. Not my issue.

[T S O]

FA_Q2, you can stop acting like anyone is listening to who you suspect. Go make a case instead of talking rubbish.

[T S O]

It's worth saying Axle's death -could- have something to do with FA being lynchproof today. I don't know.

[T S O]

And, here's something else: my flavour is Borogrove. No Mimsy.

[T S O]

I don't know if this makes me want to lynch WP or not, either.

[T S O]

*Borogove, bah

[T S O]

farside's claim is still bad

[T S O]

I don't know if this makes me want to lynch WP or not, either.

I'd like to hear a little more on this, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

Meant VM, not WP - my bad.

[T S O]

Well, TSO called me scum, so he must be scum

[T S O]

What question did you even ask? To make a Beli case? I highly doubt I'll be doing that.

Your claim -is- bad. You can throw mud at me to discredit my point, but it still stands that you claimed the sample VT PM and every VT has a unique PM, it doesn't make sense that yours was simply taken straight from the OP if you're town.

[T S O]

and every VT has a unique PM

No they don't

Who doesn't?

[T S O]

blegh

[T S O]

I have to say I think it extremely strange that I am a Borogove and WP is a Mimsy Borogove.

[T S O]

Not WP, fucking VM. Jesus.

[T S O]

thanks for helping me bus him

[T S O]

your reaction is literally laughable

[T S O]

I don't get why beli was fight hard to just claim a vt role.

I'm not town read tso either to be fair.

Meh I need more info

vote: tso

Your grammar is atrocious, but that's not the point here.

Aren't you scumreading Beli? If so, why am I a better wagon than another scumread? Why have you been so eager to return here instead of Beli repeatedly?

[T S O]

This town is kinda filled with players who I really cannot work with as town - farside all-around, Titus for unwarranted iron confidence, mollie for never listening. I'm not "active lurking on the largest wagons". I've never even touched FA, despite his idiotic martyr vote on me.

[T S O]

This town is kinda filled with players who I really cannot work with as town - farside all-around, Titus for unwarranted iron confidence, mollie for never listening. I'm not "active lurking on the largest wagons". I've never even touched FA, despite his idiotic martyr vote on me.

I feel like this is a bit of a cop out here, if you are town I will be hugely disappointed and if you are scum I will feel a bit insulted cos I am seeing nothing of the rising don corelone attitude that I know that you are capable of bringing to the table. we have worked together before in other games so I am unsure where this attitude is coming from. if you are town it only hurts town.

having good reads is only 50% of good town play. you have to convince pple not only that you are town but convince other players of your reads and I feel like you shld know this. in fact I wld go so far as to say that you

do

.

you don't convince other players of your reads by demanding that they listen to you, trust me, it just never works out. people want to feel good about their own contributions to a game so I have found the best way to do this is to engage your scumread in a way that gets then to drop down their guard and reveal what they wld much rather want to try to hide. like pple will feel more confidence about sheeping if they can reach their own conclusions and that is town's biggest challenge; providing the opportunity to do this while adjusting your own reads with more info.

I am looking at the beli wagon and there are 2 townreads are on there. I have been trying to tease out more reads from beli cos right now it kind of looks like he is not wanting to leave a trail i.e. avoid dropping associative tells. cos I can't believe with all that has happened he doesn't have 1 read. like even town 1s wld be good at this point. this is weird considering his d1 voting pattern cos he seemed to have some conviction wrt brantz. this is where you look sort of good but not quite cos you are not pushing him or reaching out to players to try to get him lynched.

guy has you as town. why cos of the failed attempt at a posting restriction, he feels like it wld be dumb to attract so much attention as scum and I agree except I have seen vets do it. I am not sure what your intention was when you decided to do it in the first place but what is really puzzling to me is why you dropped it when you did and then did nothing and have continued to do nothing. this is what is confusing to me. we all have games we feel apathetic about but we owe it to the mod and the rest of the playerbase to try to get involved anyway cos that is the onus we carry when we signed up. so you playing subpar serves no1. I can get all wifomy and hypothetical about this bullshit in that mebbe you saw your team had a scum suicidal whatever and gave up right then when you saw that faq2 was being strung but I am not going there I am just going to reduce things down to in thread play.

yours is lacking
beli's lacking
seraphim's was lacking and faq2 subbed in and now I am unsure cos a part of me agrees with titus in that a lynchproof does sort of point to a certain symmetry with regards to set up spec. plus why wld seraph act like he did if he knew he was lynchproof town. god I wld love that role I wld be even more obnoxious than I already am.

I just want you to get more engaged with the game so i can get a better read.

this is my reachout

I appreciate it.

Here's where I'm at: I don't have the time or motivation right now to make a case on Belisarius. I also don't feel the urgency that could spark me to do it. I feel it'll probably end up going through one way or another. I am committed to the game. I just feel I don't actually have to imput right now and I'm in plenty of games that do. I'm paranoid of every player here and I hate playing without solid townreads because it's where I get basis for a lot of my reads.

If I was scum and FA was my partner I would be breaking out the heavy artillery to make something else happen. I've only ever given up twice as scum - once in my first few months where Mara got lynched d1 and our associatives were so blatantly scum I knew I was fucked, and once where I was the sole member of a 3-man scumteam left alive on d2 with Town having a Cop, Jailkeeper and Vig. Even there, I got my mislynch on d2. This game isn't in the regions of those - I would be confident I could probably mislynch half this game as scum, with enough work, but as town, I'm just plugging along and seeing what happens. Take it as a show of faith.

[T S O]

No, Flubber, I promised that case and didn't deliver but kept saying I would. I'm flat out refusing to make one here, and it's rather irritating people expecting me to. Click his fucking ISO.

[T S O]

I don't think yakko cares at all.

I'll say what I always say about lurker lynches - they might flip scum, they might flip town. It's a gamble.

[T S O]

Also beginning to scumread Titus.

[T S O]

I fucking told you lot he was scum. Did you listen? No.

[T S O]

Shoutout to farside and FA_Q2 in particular!

[T S O]

"we're vigging tso"

lmfao

[T S O]

Yeah, let's vig the guy who has been screaming about the scum all day. Good idea. How town. Very wow.

[T S O]

reads, yakko?

[T S O]

im done

[T S O]

I am literally so fucking done - I support my vig. I essentially did everything right this game - called scum d1, pushed scum d2, and now I'm getting vigged.

I don't care about this game anymore after this - vig me. I'd like it.

[T S O]

beli you fuck
beli

[T S O]

but you sure showed me what with your "oh im voting tso but im still scumreading beli!!!"

[T S O]

Wait, that's not a hammer?

[T S O]

As in, Beli didn't hammer Yakko?

[T S O]

I guess I was scum after all.

[T S O]

thanks gm ly