Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[MathBlade]

Yes a cult turning scum is a new faction.

[MathBlade]

i don't want to lynch anyone that's been yelling today. majority inactive scum. Almost, Nahdia's position makes sense. Math, we had a scum faction before Maxous's lynch. Skull all but confirmed that. lynching anti-town to create the only scum faction in the game is a ridiculous concept and has been set aside quite nicely by Skull's posting.

Skull all but confirmed a group with antitown alignment. Which post do you refer that makes you say that?

[MathBlade]

I will

maybe

entertain the notion that a group that was previously a scumteam (ie mafia) suddenly became aligned with Gaster instead, or something to that effect. But again, Maxous transparently did not have allies while he was alive. This isn't something I will budge on.

Yes a cult turning scum is a new faction.

Ok, here's the problem with that.
There's been one death a night. SOMEONE has been killing these people, and it's not a town vig bc they woulda claimed by now.
It's not this "cult" unless you think they're a cultfia, which is fucking wild but okay, MAYBE you can explain this like that.
The alternative is that you think there's a mafia team, a cult, and now post-Maxous death TWO mafia teams, essentially. Meaning we should have had TWO deaths last night. Which, oh wait, would mean the only fucking way we had 0 deaths is a universal doctor. Who is claiming that again? Oh right, the person you're fucking implicating as scum.

Why was it so hard to lynch Maxous if he didn't have allies?
And I think that someone was Maxous. A cultafia in deed. I don't think there is a traditional mafia in this theory.

[MathBlade]

Because the new faction would be created if any and all culted players in the game became a scum faction. That is a new faction.

[MathBlade]

im done. im out. i can't deal with this.

VOTE: accountant

this vote is fine. i don't care. i can't deal with you people and your obtuse bullshit anymore.

If you believed in the clears you wouldn't be voting Accountant. All I am doing is posting a theory. If I am clearly so insane why are you so worked up?

[MathBlade]

Let me remind you my "insanity" caught Maxous. Sometimes I need to talk out theories.

[MathBlade]

I am not arguing the mod lied.

I am arguing the flavor is misleading. Cult died scum faction created. Ergo new faction.

Or Maxous was lying as much as he thought he could get away with. Maxous could win with Town if they all submitted to his control.

[MathBlade]

The intentionally misleading in that rule seems to be about communication with the moderator. We are jumping to conclusions with the New Faction bit and that would not be Skull misleading us.

If there was a scum team pre Maxous clears stand. If not they don't.

[MathBlade]

Based on Nahdia voting one of those clears and Nahdia saying we are a part of this new faction which is not true I really think Nahdia needs rope as well as Yoshi.

[MathBlade]

No touchy Cakey.

[MathBlade]

One I am thinking. Thinking is not idiocracy.
Two I pointed out a contradiction you said in voting for someone that would be a clear since in your world we need a scum lynch.
Three yes indeed I refuse to release to our out of until I trust it.

[MathBlade]

Or out*

[MathBlade]

@Not Chara -- Cult = faction. So a cult works in that case and then additional 24 hours to adjust to cult leader death works.

@A50 it would be his faction

I just don't buy 7-8 antitown players in this game. That would make me one of the few towns temaining.

[MathBlade]

I am going back to bed and seeing if y'all make sense later because there is a way to read Maxous as a cult leader with the sheer resistance to his lynch.

[MathBlade]

7-8 antitown is what doesn't make sense.

[MathBlade]

I absolutely refuse to believe that Skullduggery would go "Gee town you finally got an antitown lynch." So let's cut your numbers in half and oh yeah because scum can't be culted we take from all town. That I just do not buy.

[MathBlade]

That would cause town to lose by playing to our fucking win con of removing a very likely cult leader/spawner.

[MathBlade]

So no I simply cannot believe that a massive group of people changed alignment because then we could not win by playing to wincon.

[MathBlade]

I absolutely refuse to believe that Skullduggery would go "Gee town you finally got an antitown lynch." So let's cut your numbers in half and oh yeah because scum can't be culted we take from all town. That I just do not buy.

who says scum can't be culted? this game is using non-standard roles. it also wouldn't be a cult, really, if it happened all on one night.

Because at that point it isn't Mafia. It is like resetting the entire fucking game and starting over. We would have nothing to go off of and no way to find anything out and we would be back in fucking RVS just no.

[MathBlade]

So no I simply cannot believe that a massive group of people changed alignment because then we could not win by playing to wincon.

why do you keep saying things like

massive

? why not two players? why not players who weren't town to begin with?

If it was a small group of players then no need for 24+ hours.

[MathBlade]

Scum being unable to be culted is a terrible assumption. Did you already forget Gistou?

I never forget that game but that game was multifaction at front this is not.

[MathBlade]

I am going back to bed. There is no way in hell a large ass group of people were culted last night enough to support 24 hours downtime or I am playing a game I literally cannot win which in that case clear divisions would be drawn which just isn't there.

Goodnight and no touchy Cakey.

[MathBlade]

The world is ending because I agree with Nahdia on JaeReed but the problem is I agree with Nahdia who is also being weird. Like I am staying out of this for the rest of the day.

[MathBlade]

Alright, here's what I think.

Maxous was choosing someone each night to future-cult upon his death. The cult team can no longer grow and was only created upon his death. Therefore they're essentially a survivor faction now.
Whether they gained a faction nightkill is debatable. Whether they can win with town is debatable.

So scum have not killed any of the Max group, nor have we lynched any of the Max group nor any scum.

What are the odds?

What?

Scum could not have killed any of the Max group before last night because my theory means even if he targeted them for future-recruit they still would have been town until he flipped.

So are any of the dead town Max recruits? Do they win with Max-group or with town?

Check the dead posts by mod they had their wincons posted. :face palm:

Okay now I am out for reals.

Oh and JaeReed I seriously explained the line of innocents for the billionth time that most of the thread has caught up with if there is even group scum. So you can say they don't make sense but for the love of God you better explain where the innocent logic fails instead of "doesn't make sense"

[MathBlade]

Titus in the neighbourhood checked my slot so Math's bullshit about clears and such is 100% fake and scum!Math doing their usual thing of twisting things until they don't make sense to make their universe fit to their reads rather than genuinely getting reads.

They didn't check your slot 100% They only had vanilla cop which is t alignment inducing and I got gifted a Neopolitan. That is what I had been crumbling with the ice cream.

[MathBlade]

I even fucking crumbed I was checking your slot with how I Pine for ice cream. Then you come in and scumread me. Bull fucking shit.

[MathBlade]

Oh and the Pine slot?

Damn out of ice cream after tonight.

Here is where I said I would check it. I am thinking he is vanilla goon/cult not vanilla townie. Vanilla cops don't check alignment Neopolitan DO.

[MathBlade]

I agree he is claimed VT which is why I was going to check the fucking slot.

[MathBlade]

Cakez is town. No touchy the cakey.

Now THAT actually DOUBLES my suspicions about him.

If you're Town: Your reads are guaranteed to be TERRIBAD, so he's likely Scum.

If you're Scum; it sounds like you're trying to protect a scum buddy, so he IS scum.

Either way you slice it, Cakez is back to being a prime suspect of mine.

So, myself, Yoshi and Chara are prepared to vote Cakez. Narna might, but still needs to reread stuff. That's 3.5 votes there. Assuming Ank wants to hammer (and then vig me tonight) that could be up to 5.

On the other hand, Cakez himself and Accountant (his scum buddy) are firmly against it, and so is Mathblade.

That's a total of 8 players. There are 5 more slots still alive in this game, and I would appreciate it if we knew what they thought of Cakez. Gio? Pine?? Um.. is Nahdia still alive somewhere?? PV will eventually show up, I know (based on my experience playing with him before), but what about Creeps (the most active of all 5 recently)? Any objections to a Cakez lynch, Creeps?

I object wholeheartedly to a Cakez lynch. Second of all how do you know all three of you are for the lynch?

Thirdly I pine for ice cream.

Another time I fucking crumbed it. Like can I be more obvious of how much I do not trust the slot. The only reason I picked Yoshi and put Pine in the middle was I was fucking checking it.

[MathBlade]

I have never seen a goon in role madness. The token VT claim is an innocent child.

Also my predec received an FBI check and paranoia checked Titus instead of anyone actually useful the night she died and I'm pissed about that.

Or you are just a vanilla of unknown alignment that coincidentally checked her on the same night? Bullshit.

[MathBlade]

No, Math. You were posturing to lynch me. Both in neighbourhood and here. I don't trust any result you'll out.

You claim Cakez is clear for having proved his role, yet I'm not clear when Titus checked my slot and found yup I'm vanilla. The token VT in a role madness game.

Your logic is in line with scum!Math.

Of if you are town I will eat crow. I have done it before but rest assured I do have a one shot Neo and I was hiding it to see what your claim is and why I asked why you said you had additional information in the hood as a fucking VT claim. I am checking you tonight.

[MathBlade]

No, seriously. Were there only two non-town players at the start of this game?

That is the question I asked as if Maxous was a cult leader which you called me insane for.

[MathBlade]

No, seriously. Were there only two non-town players at the start of this game?

No there has to be a faction, because Skull phrased it as such.

A faction is a person or persons in a group. Technically a faction can have one person but the wording would be weird :/

[MathBlade]

Problem is, the way my jailkeep on zakk n1 failed is still up in the air. If Maxous really didn't block me that night, which he said he didn't (but who knows if we can trust his claimed actions), that would imply a Strongman Serial Killer, hence my role is fucking useless.

No, seriously. Were there only two non-town players at the start of this game?

No there has to be a faction, because Skull phrased it as such.

No they didn't.

What makes me think Narna's is useless too and the useful items are given out by one of my town reads. Because Narna said it is by N2 so almost everyone would come up innocent but that was Math sleepy theory.

[MathBlade]

Omg Nahdia I think you finally understand what I am saying and I don't know if this is good or bad.

[MathBlade]

But that means literally anyone can be non Town and the only reason I caught Maxous is because he was an obv liar based on night actions. Like why would Maxous lie? It seems stupid :/

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

That is, if you want to go on Maxous' word.

What about Narna's?

I mean, Narna isn't flipped non-town so the reason to explicitly doubt them isn't as strong but yeah ok.
Speaking of which. Narna, did you ever do what I asked and explicitly asked Skullduggery what the result would be if you targeted someone with Shiro's role with your ability?

If Narna is nontown and Gio is town it would have to be after N4 she became non Town. Narna prob town unless Gio isn't because of the weak claim.

[MathBlade]

would imply a Strongman Serial Killer, hence my role is fucking useless.

Continuing this thought; except for the fact that Yoshi's uni-doc did work. So maybe the SK had a single strongman shot, or I was somehow interfered with in some other way (suggesting a full mafia team). or something.

Lots of questions. There is also the possibility you can't Jailkeep too but that is a lower probability based on yournposts here.

[MathBlade]

Yeah no. That would cause us to be in an untenable position to win just for doing the right thing and lynching Maxous. If that was the case there is a scenario where Town instantly loses. No.

[MathBlade]

Alright, here's what I think.

Maxous was choosing someone each night to future-cult upon his death. The cult team can no longer grow and was only created upon his death. Therefore they're essentially a survivor faction now.
Whether they gained a faction nightkill is debatable. Whether they can win with town is debatable.

This could also be the case. That way whoever Maxous "secretly" submitted for as a recruit to his future faction would not have known they were chosen before he was lynched. They also could be lynched/NK'd and flip TOWN as their alignment had not yet changed.

I disagree with the last line tough. Our win-con is explicit about eliminating all non-Town players. It also defies the purpose of there being a new faction to begin with. The new faction is a stand alone faction and cannot win with either Town or Scum. They need to gain the majority to control the vote-count, and most probably do NOT have a kill of their own either.

No. just no. That theory is ridiculous. Otherwise Cult could win if Maxous recruited every night and somehow through divine fairies we would have to figure out to lynch him before half the player base or he just claims not Town and instantly wins. That is insane.

[MathBlade]

If Maxous was a cult recruiter then the people he recruited would have to be told and change alignments period. Otherwise we would have to all magically find one player to lynch before the halfway mark and if we lynched him right at it we lose and Maxous would pick all the winners of the game. That is insane.

[MathBlade]

That's kind of a pain tbh. That means there's a possibility of serial killer + cult leader and no scum team. Maxous being cult leader with the cult created after his death. I was hoping we could just win with cult and lynch remaining scum.

That sounds kind of too swingy though with my theory of basically delayed recruits. We could have lynched Max D1 and had no cult and 1 serial killer to hunt down with an FBI tool existing as an item.

....No elated recruit of cult like that or as I said before Town plays the entire game to find one person to lynch before half way mark off literally nothing. No. just no.

[MathBlade]

You mean I am destroying obv bullshit fine.

It is like the Supreme Court on pornography. I can't definite it but I know what it is when I see it. And I know what it isn't when I see it.if someone proposed this had 314 factions that would clearly not be right.

You wanna seriously argue there are? I am shutting down what I see to be illogical play. Nahdia has done the same to me. Now why you pick on me when Nahdia is starting to realize what I am saying is beyond me.

[MathBlade]

I am going to D&D Laters.

[MathBlade]

So we're lynching someone from the hood right?

Accountant is town. I'm town. Ank is weird I waffle on him. Pine I have a check on tonight so would rather not lynch him. So no we are not lynching someone from the hood.

[MathBlade]

When were you given the neapolitan?

Last night. Claimed it at start of day.

[MathBlade]

Peregrine, do you have something specific that made you ask about my claim?
i've said in-thread that i have an investigation, i think. nothing beyond that.

Yes. You softed night action, but have no results from 5 investigative nights. Absolutely NOTHING added, much like Mathblade.

But, assuming you've made 5 poor choices (it happens), I have concluded you share a flavor commonality with Almost50.

I haven't determined if it is alignment indicative, but it is another piece of the puzzle.

So, would like a PM name, even if you don't give your actual role. (once again, thats another discussion)

I am confused. Why are you saying I added nothing when I caught Maxous? That is a hell of a lot of adding things and you called my posts helpful. Explain. And I agree Not Chara is scummy as I have been saying but connecting us is not gonna fly unless you have pigs.

[MathBlade]

When were you given the neapolitan?

Last night. Claimed it at start of day.

Was it from Cakez?

.....If I thought it was from Cakez I wouldn't answer that question as it would call attention to Cakez being a suspected power role. If I didn't think it was from Cakez then I wouldn't want to narrow the scope for other people.

[MathBlade]

In short stop entering bass tournaments.

[MathBlade]

...It is only intended to be treated as IC when confirmed. If you are VT you should have no problems with me checking you again. Titus did not have a confirm on your alignment. Plus some people think there is a cult so it can't hurt.

[MathBlade]

I think, as the alternative is that you're

really

carefully curating your presence as scum at an extremely high level, that what you're doing is unintentional. But legit what you're doing rn is sacrificing your credibility (see: charisma) for the sake of self-preservation.

Food for thought, is all. I'm reminded that despite everything, I was generously leaning on Andrius being town. The first half of this game feels so distant now.

My replace in feels distant :/ *sigh*

[MathBlade]

B) Idiotic

I just double checked what Neapolitan does. It does not return results like "Mafia PR" or "Vanilla Townie" or "Town PR" so yes I will wear this badge thank you.

Cakez is still posturing, and I have a question.

If Cakez were a scum false inventor is it possible that his false inventions actually kill the person it's used on? Has anyone claimed an invention use on someone that hasn't died?

I asked this question to the mod and got an answer to look at the rules.

Neopolitan explicitly is more powerful than Vanilla cop. It is vanilla cop on steroids.

[MathBlade]

...Guys we have 3 days left and one day is Christmas. Discussing dumb lynches like SirCakez is bad. We need to start converging.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: NotChara

Figure here is a good place to start since no one is talking about it no matter how much I asked earlier.

[MathBlade]

as far as I can tell, there's literally

no one

that someone here isn't treating like they're strictly off limits.

As far as I can tell scum/cult doesn't want to talk about Almost50 and NotChara

[MathBlade]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8653101

Swiss cheese

[MathBlade]

Town. Trying not to rant while sick and angry.

[MathBlade]

You mean I don't want to lynch who I believe to be my flavor's girlfriend? Omg what a shock.

[MathBlade]

You mean I don't want to lynch who I believe to be my flavor's girlfriend? Omg what a shock.

lizard queen could be a fakeclaim!!!

but yes im fine not lynching the inventor for now whatever. let's lynch PV.

And I could be an undead meteor from outerspace. /sarcasm

And SirCakez never claimed lizard queen. *smacky*

SirCakez get in the trash can dude.

[MathBlade]

The lizard queen isn't even an Undertale character lol

Nahdia means a character that starts with A that in certain circles is called the lizard queen.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia what is your read on Not Chara?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[MathBlade]

Just preempting what I know is gonna happen:

A50 & Ank; you need to explain why PV is town without just saying "I can read PV, its meta".

I have asked a shit ton of times in the hood for him to do it here and there. Don't hold your breath.

[MathBlade]

It was just me doing lore things. Undyne puts Alphys in a trash can on their date. Undyne just doesn't know how to communicate.

[MathBlade]

N2/N4 Andrius who was N1 my notes aren't in front of me

[MathBlade]

N2/N4 Andrius who was N1 my notes aren't in front of me

What does this mean?

Day 6, Vote Count #18

Current Vote Count:

(1)

Almost50 -- Narna

Not really much of an impact to be had, + unvoting =/= not pushing him anymore, I just want to reconsider wagon options

To each their own, but I feel the natural thing to do if you were not faking was to keep your vote on me until you've decided on whom to vote instead. I only unvote when I'm no longer sure about wanting to lynch someone AND can't find another appropriate target for my vote. Otherwise I just simply switch my vote from x to why. It is the UNVOTE that concerns me (coupled with a continued push/discredit process).

Just because YOU do it, doesn't mean everyone else does (which you acknowledged in your first few words).
A bunch of people who I think are probtown (i;e Jae) think you are town which is also a concern to me.

@skull is an extension due to christmas/christmas eve possible?

This request is denied.

N1 SirCakez gave an item to X
N2 SirCakez gave an item to Andrius
N3 SirCakez fell asleep
N4 SirCakez was RB'd but said he targeted Andrius
N5 SirCakez clearly targeted me.

What is X?

[MathBlade]

Highway. His play isn't scummy.

[MathBlade]

You mean besides pop up for two seconds make three posts and those posts are contradictory when he does bother to make content.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade or Cakez are my preferred lynches and I'm fine with the other being vigged.

....I am bulletproof *facepalms* Vigging me is as effective as vigging a toadstool.

I am not being lynched today and you want me dead so I don't check you. Interesting. I just really wish everyone didn't inexplicably townread Andrius for reasons they don't explain.

[MathBlade]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

[MathBlade]

Jae I'm not seeing a difference between Math's game here and both town/scum games elsewhere. He plays pretty much the same regardless of alignment from what I've seen.
Could you explain what "logic he has as town" is not present here?

They please.

[MathBlade]

Vigging me is as effective as vigging a toadstool.

Don't call yourself hat. You're a cutey

Not a cutey.

[MathBlade]

And I didn't call my self a toadstool I said it was effective as vigging one.

[MathBlade]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

That's not what I said and you know it. This is again twisting things. Twisting things is a scum move from you.

All you said is I am twisting things and did that in Shadowrun.

You did not say what things I am twisting. There aren't any.

So yes there is literally nothing there besides shadowrun.

I notice a difference between here and Shadowrun but if I mention it I trust tell. So instead I will wait for your case of why you aren't policying me. Which doesn't exist.

[MathBlade]

I thought that post was dripping in sarcasm Almost50.

[MathBlade]

So instead I will wait for your case of why you aren't policying me.

I've already mentioned heaps of reasons. So no. I'm not dragging this out further with you.

No you didn't. This is policy.

[MathBlade]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

EVERYBODY, PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION:

Jae says "You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy". They then go on to show this is SCUM!Math meta (according to Jae's own experience).

Math calls this a POLICY LYNCH, and never even addresses the main issue of BENDING EVENTS TO FIT THEIR SCUM/TOWN READS.

Keep it up, Math. You're doing great so far.

I can't address what doesn't exist. He just wants me gone because I will check him.

[MathBlade]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

What reasons? All I see are "I don't get Math" and twisting words. Please find this case I hear so much about.

[MathBlade]

He just wants me gone because I will check him.

Another wild goose to chase. You don't know what goes into their mind, and they sure do have good reason to want you gone. I want you lynched as well, and I'm not your stated target. At some point you wanted Nahdia gone, and -using your own justification process- it must've been because you don't want them to jail you or your partners. You wanted me dead, and -again using the same "I know what's going on in that deep little spot of your brain" reasoning- it must be because you can't kill me yourself or you would lose your powers.

Jae expressed their suspicions and laid their case. Everyone else is entitled to either join their cause or decline, but that's about it. Nobody knows for sure if Jae's stated reasons ARE the real reasons or if they simply saw BAD PLAY and decided to exploit it to their advantage.

What reasons? All I see are "I don't get Math" and

twisting words

. Please find this case I hear so much about.

Whadda hypocrite. He isn't even using twisted words.

I didn't say he was. I said he said I was. Which is wrong. If anything that was you twisting.

[MathBlade]

Nahdia please don't get a case of the MathBlade's Then people will be all mean to you when you point out common sense things.

[MathBlade]

No, I don't give a crap if you check me or not because you're going to lie about the result regardless. Everything you're doing is pushing things to try and make it fit your scumreads/townreads. You are literally trying to bend the events of this game to your will and it's scummy af and I'm pissed I didn't catch you from it in Shadowrun but I'll be damned if I let you do it to me again. In Shadowrun I handwaved a lot of things as "Math is unreasonable" but the difference is there's some logic to your unreasonableness as town, and there's none here.

Great so you want to policy me because I tricked people in Shadowrun lovely. keep up the good scumhunting. (The last sentence is sarcastic)

That's not what I said and you know it. This is again twisting things. Twisting things is a scum move from you.

@Yoshi -- Here

[MathBlade]

Which, by the way, also should (I made an error) include MathBlade as off limits because they're the ones with the neapolitan check that can clear Jae. We lynch Math today, we never get anything on Jae's slot.

Spoiler alert: We're never getting anything useful on my slot anyway because Math is scum.

Gee I am so shocked you came to this revelation after I was checking you. And SirCakez must be scum for giving me the tools to do that check.

[MathBlade]

Warning there was sarcasm because I am tired and angry.

[MathBlade]

But the post I am referring to was made by A50.

Almost50 said Jae made a case. I said Jae didn't.

[MathBlade]

Common sense per the dictionary: good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.

It doesn't change based on popular opinion. In fact I find most people in the real world lack common sense. Common sense is actually rather uncommon.

[MathBlade]

For those town and not convinced that Math is scum:

Math has decided SirCakez is town because they can confirm his role through having received the Neapolitan.
Math has decided my slot is scum

despite

my slot claiming VT early, and offering to be the check from Titus, and returning a Vanilla result from Titus. Math has decided my slot is either Goon or Cult because of this.

These two viewpoints cannot exist together and be genuine. They just cannot. This is the logical progression that Math has as town which they do not have as scum. Town Math would decide either Cakez is not town just because of the role being confirmed to them, or they would decide that my slot is town. There would be consistency. There is not. Ergo, Math is scum.

It isn't that simple. I don't see scum giving away cop abilities to town that is dumb.
Second of all, you are claimed VT. If you were a VT me using what I received shouldn't tick you off. There is also no inconsistency because of whatever the fuck n5 was. If you are VT as I said in the hood I will eat crow and admit it. I just don't think you are.

[MathBlade]

You can't on one hand question my I won't touch these people because of mechanics then not let me reverify those same mechanics. It is mind boggling.

[MathBlade]

Erm...Nahdia I am scared. Is one of your powers brain invasion?

[MathBlade]

lol I am already full claimed Bulletproof with one shot Neopolitan. We are not doing the dumb thing and moving anything up because we have very limited town people left. If you are town let me check you then submit to whatever you say. If you aren't VT then we 1v1 tomorrow.

We are not rushing this. Deal. Vote PV or someone else but not me and not you.

[MathBlade]

Math: you don't see scum giving any a Neapolitan ability in a game with 0-1 vanilla town? not even to win towncred?

With a claimed VT on the board after weird events on N5 if I was scum/cult I wouldn't give away something that would make an innocent child. Then it becomes sheep the innocent child. I would give away almost anything other than something that gives us an idea of wtf is going on.

[MathBlade]

Vote PV or someone else but not me and not you.

At this stage I want to lynch everyone that you townread for no reliable reason, which is Cakez.

Good luck with trying to vote obv town again.

Seriously. What is it with my scumreads and they try to lynch my townreads all the time. Just bus already.

[MathBlade]

Yes we are doing this tomorrow because you are not mislynching me today because if you are town that results in your instant mislynch tomorrow. So no we are not lynching me so go find something else to do.

Pick within the small subset of not clears.

[MathBlade]

@Jae:

Knowing Math I can see them disregarding their own result on you and keeping the push, yes. However, if you are really willing to die, why not give them the opportunity to entertain us with a result on you? I can tell you what WILL happen beforehand, right here and right now, but I don't want to look like I'm giving you/them ideas, so let's just give them this one night to come up with the promised salvation.

@Gio:

Do us all a favour and check ME tonight. Scum can't kill both you AND Jae on the same night, so if you die I'm willing to eat the rope with Jae confirmed, and if Jae dies (thus Math having no result) I'd be confirmed.

Narna should probably pick someone outside of this pool of 4 to check.

Or we could make a chain, like Narna checking Gio (or vise versa) and the other checking Math while Math checks Jae. This way if Jae dies we still have results on both Math and Gio. If Gio/Narna die we have a result on Rae still with a possible result on Math (depending on which of Gio/Narna is dead).

I think the latter works better because while I'm not going to be NK'd with my claim anyway, the idea of Gio getting NK'd with me still not confirmed is not ideal in my own eyes.

Nahdia can still jail me if they want to, if we walk down the chain route that is.

Gio is claimed weak that is horrible as you are a scumread of mine.

[MathBlade]

Math. how can you tell your scumread that them asking to be checked by the weak is horrible because you scumread them? if you were town and heavily scumread, wouldn't you want to be checked? how can you not see that from Almost's hypothetical town pov? i just don't understand.

It isn't the check that is the problem. Almost50 says scum can't kill Gio and Jae.

If Almost50 is scum all that is fruit from the poisonous tree or if there is scum and cult or if Ank gets his shot.

It isn't that I object to the check so much as his logic afterward.

[MathBlade]

They.
They they they.
They they they they they they they.
T H E Y.

Thank you. A bit more emphatic than I would have said it. I have given up on being properly gendered on MS though. I just know every 20 or so posts will be a reminder so I don't go completely bar shit dysphoric.

[MathBlade]

Math. how can you tell your scumread that them asking to be checked by the weak is horrible because you scumread them? if you were town and heavily scumread, wouldn't you want to be checked? how can you not see that from Almost's hypothetical town pov? i just don't understand.

It isn't the check that is the problem. Almost50 says scum can't kill Gio and Jae.

If Almost50 is scum all that is fruit from the poisonous tree or if there is scum and cult or if Ank gets his shot.

It isn't that I object to the check so much as his logic afterward.

i don't understand the second sentence. could you rephrase without the metaphor?

It means that as everything after scum can't kill Almost50 and Jae is null and void.

Ank if he gets hammers could kill there.
If there is group scum and cult two kills.
If Almost50 is scum and only one kill it could go to Jae.

Everything after that assumes they both won't die and is therefore invalid. (Fruit from the poisonous tree)

[MathBlade]

And Not Chara is it <3 Thanks Not Chara.

[MathBlade]

Math: i don't see what any of that has to do with checking Almost. you're saying even if he's town, scum will just shoot Giovanni to frame him? i don't know if i'm tired or just an idiot, but i don't understand what you're saying if it's not that.

It isn't that. It is that Almost50 is making assumptions based on only one of the two dying when really I have no clue and really no one else should. I don't mind him volunteering for the check. It is assuming what he is assuming afterward is off. We would need to examine the results of night actions tomorrow after they are done.

Furthermore we could circle jerk this and have Gio check me if people are really paranoid over my check results.

[MathBlade]

I don't know if I trust Gio either.

So you think it is me SirCakez Gio Narna scum team then?

Because if you don't trust Gio then no way scumGio townNarna is a thing. So all four of us would have to be a team all conspiring in a loud and vocal way just to mislynch one VT. Are you really saying that Yoshi?

[MathBlade]

in the original context of 9097, none of that was communicated. just that you were scumreading him and that Giovanni was claimed weak.

considering false guilties with a claimed weak player, i'd also prefer Gio tries to hit town. so, Almost is a good check.

pedit: yes, but there's no reason not to wait for a result.
and i take it back. Gio being nightkilled would do wonders for the gamestate. so go ahead Gio, please try to hit scum.

Either hitting a scumread or me is good yep. Like I said no problems with the A50 check it is more we need concrete townies and some launching pads.

[MathBlade]

Math, you have to stop this thread of taking one thing a player says, then taking an unfounded logical leap, twisting their argument then refuting the new, illogical argument you've created. it's manipulative and discrediting and scummy.

I am not doing that. I read something illogical that was said and then responded to that illogical thing. Not twisting. Everyone seems to think I am dancing when I am not.

[MathBlade]

No.I.am.not.

I can use periods too. It isn't a case.

[MathBlade]

and you've been doing it for a while. stop using your

opinions

as truths to discredit other players.
scum Gio and town Narna is not impossible, and scum working together wouldn't be just to lynch

one

VT. don't even get me started on how you've used VT in a dismissive fashion, as if Jaereed isn't a threat to scum as a VT. because this is after you've presented VT jaereed as possible conftown through your neapolitan.

It isn't an opinion. Yoshi has thrown shade on me Cakez and Gio now.

If Gio is scum then no way he lets a town Narna run wild with that many cop checks. Like what?

[MathBlade]

That is how I hunt Not Chara. I look and see who they have been poking and if who they are poking makes sense together as a team. If they don't make sense as a team I point it out to them. Either then they say we'll X,Y can't be scum together and I still scumread both but not together or they maintain that is the team. Otherwise they are throwing shade at a town read.

I am physically incapable of doing things like tone so I look for logical thought out progressions on reads. It is also why I hate RVS because it is gobbledygook and I much prefer to replace in. If I can't hunt using logic I am literally incapable of playing mafia.

[MathBlade]

Take a look at Yoshi'S answer. It is sketchy as Fuck because he says there could be a mechanic implying he knows something. Those are the things I look for. People like PV who post once every blue moon are hard to read for me because of it.

[MathBlade]

Fact:Yoshi has thrown shade on me.
Fact:Yoshi has thrown shade on Cakez.
Fact: Yoshi just threw shade on Gio.

Question to ask: Does Yoshi believe in a me Cakez Gio team? If not what does he think.

The only potential extrapolation is Gio >> Narna but I don't see scum leaving a claimed psychologist alive three nights in a row.

[MathBlade]

Did my claim to be an infinite-voter seem logical to you too?

It is bastard. As long as it isn't something like 2 role PMs it gets taken at face value and then analyzed for inconsistencies.

[MathBlade]

and you've been doing it for a while. stop using your

opinions

as truths to discredit other players.
scum Gio and town Narna is not impossible, and scum working together wouldn't be just to lynch

one

VT. don't even get me started on how you've used VT in a dismissive fashion, as if Jaereed isn't a threat to scum as a VT. because this is after you've presented VT jaereed as possible conftown through your neapolitan.

It isn't an opinion. Yoshi has thrown shade on me Cakez and Gio now.

If Gio is scum then no way he lets a town Narna run wild with that many cop checks. Like what?

if Gio is town, then why is scum allowing town Narna to run wild with this many cop checks?

Because if Gio is town they have to because if Narna is town it innocent Child's Gio. Gio is the starting point not Narna. Narna's alignment confirms Gio's. (Well assuming no mass event N5)

[MathBlade]

If Narna is town then Gio either gave us a conf town as scum willingly or he himself is Town.

[MathBlade]

I agree with this. Hell I have even used this in scum games. There is a huge difference here though. No one has a fucking clue as to what is good and true. In this case there is no Town cred need here. Let me ask you this:

As scum let's assume that Town was falling all over their heads apathetic and doesn't give a damn. Why do anything to be helpful? I replaced into late game scum and could have been helpful but instead I let Titus take over and agreed with what she said. There is no reason to help Town when you are winning.

[MathBlade]

...Explain why I have only lost two scum games in 3 years on MS? It is because I can think like them. Breathe like them. There is not being optimal then there is outright dumb. With the amount of mislynches I am definitely not assuming the latter. I am wicked good as scum. My town game needs some work but it is because people are people and I adjust to that. But there are certain things that just make sense like sky is up and ground is down.

I think scum is running out of material to be frank. There has to be good scum in that hood.

[MathBlade]

Once again if Gio dies we evaluate. I know I would want to lynch you but I would also look at how your wagon forms to see if it is a setup.

If Jae dies then y'all will know my results barring redirection/hijinks etc.'

That is seriously a way to go about it since some people like Ank don't trust the innocents. I do agree with him letting us know and circle jerking me is also an option as I said before. How your post was worded was that you both can't die which is false. Everything else in that post seemed built off the theory you both can't die.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore we could circle jerk this and have Gio check me if people are really paranoid over my check results.

Which IS what I FRIGGIN' proposed as the SECOND COURSE OF ACTION WITHIN THE SAME POST, AND YOU OPTED TO OVERLOOK IT! Duh!

Again. How your post is worded seems like that is only an option if we agreed with the first half of the post which was you both can't die. That is why the entire post should be thrown out and the rest not read because it is fruit from the poisonous tree.

If I said because 23 scum ....lynch Skullduggery oh and Maxous is bad.

You would stop at the 23 scum. It doesn't make the then statement true or false it should just be ignored until the if statement is fixed.

[MathBlade]

Works for me as well.

[MathBlade]

Yes for that someone because they are the horse because they can't tell what a human is. Why are you telling me what I already know? In a weird story form?

[MathBlade]

Did my claim to be an infinite-voter seem logical to you too?

It is bastard. As long as it isn't something like 2 role PMs it gets taken at face value and then analyzed for inconsistencies.

Then why would I ever bother making cases when I could just lynch them? Why am I arguing over this? Your self-proclaimed logical abilities are shit when you compare it to how you reacted to my infinite-voter claim.
And how can you play like the way you are if bastard means that roles like an infinite-voter are possible?

Bastard doesn't mean "anything goes". It means you listen and then analyze like I said. I listened and then had to immediately react in case I was dead. Once Skull posted a vote count it became clear you were full of shit.

Some people like Ank don't bother with cases. It infuriates me. Some people don't play mafia for cases. Some people are logical players like me who use mechanics. Some are more "tone". The "tone" players do adopt the fuck cases just lynch player approach and it drives me insane because I am three steps back and can never tell when they are lying because they don't explain and ergo I don't trust them.

[MathBlade]

Did my claim to be an infinite-voter seem logical to you too?

It is bastard. As long as it isn't something like 2 role PMs it gets taken at face value and then analyzed for inconsistencies.

Then why would I ever bother making cases when I could just lynch them? Why am I arguing over this? Your self-proclaimed logical abilities are shit when you compare it to how you reacted to my infinite-voter claim.
And how can you play like the way you are if bastard means that roles like an infinite-voter are possible?

I am also one of the most literal people here. I am still learning each player's sarcastic. It is why I hate RVS that fake claims mason and shit like that. By the time I figure out the sarcasm I am 100 posts back.

[MathBlade]

...Explain why I have only lost two scum games in 3 years on MS?

It's because you're so damn illogical as town that people give you free passes as scum.

This is incorrect. Explain my sig. look at 1800 look at my first scum game. None of those were "free illogical passes". In Shadowrun I planned out nearly everyone's actions. Seriously stawp.

[MathBlade]

Because if Gio is town they have to because if Narna is town it innocent Child's Gio. Gio is the starting point not Narna. Narna's alignment confirms Gio's. (

Well assuming no mass event N5

)

And we KNOW there has been NO MASS EVENT on N5. Right?

It's not like a certain player claimed a mass event on N5, is it?

We don't know what that my faction means. That has been drummed up in circles.

[MathBlade]

Since we aren't mislynching me today I agree with the notion.

[MathBlade]

Fine; whatever. I still think they're scum.

I'm all for Almost's plan. Am only willing to lynch Creeps out of the ones that are apparently on the table for a lynch.

Creeps is not on the table. He is one of Narna's checks :face palm:

[MathBlade]

Like shooting fish in a barrel, right? 5 of the bolded players are scum out of 6....

SirCakez is conf town through things I cannot explain and I am town.

Not Chara/Yoshi/Almost 50 be scums

Sure- let's mark that.



02

SirCakez

03 Giovanni il Pellegrino*-weak cleared Narna
05

MathBlade

06

PeregrineV

11 Nahdia*-cleared as not killer
12 Accountant*

13 Not Chara
14 Ankamius*
17 BigYoshiFan

18 Narna- Kill checker

19 Almost50
21 Pine**

22 Creeps20-cleared as not-killer

So these are all just the remaining scum? I thought there were more clears.

Fixed. I am technically not clear but I am Town. SirCakez while clear to me is not clear to everyone else.

So, technically, I made the list of who I'm supposed to accept as scum.

You have made a list of......what exactly?

A list of pure concrete this is where scum could be lost.

I don't believe Yoshi FYI Andrius would have used it during the many times there were mislynches so we didn't end up in this spot.

Point of reference for you JaeReed

[MathBlade]

Then your only option is Not Chara.

[MathBlade]

They *sigh*

High activity is a standard of any alignment.

[MathBlade]

No...No lynching is anti Town. Feels like to me you don't want to bus.

[MathBlade]

I forgive you. You haven't played with me before <3

[MathBlade]

Sure, but you replaced in during Day 5. It's day 6 and you have more posts than anyone else.

The I forgive you quote was original for this.

*gives Yoshi an ice pack*

[MathBlade]

Because no one else is going to let ScumBlade get lynched today. I'd rather avoid lynching town as a compromise.

Also, in Shadowrun Math was stressing about making sure they were around all the time. Before work, after work, you name it. Math seems to equate low activity with scummy when playing as scum. So if they replaced in one day phase ago and have more posts than everyone else I'd be inclined towards yup they're scum.

I have the most posts as Town as well Jae. I have a posting problem maybe. But it is NAI.

[MathBlade]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rt_order=d

Fyi town game.

Rach Marie had two/ three more days and Cookie Bakers is a hydra with Titus in it and I missed half of pregame.

I post a lot as either alignment. Let me know if I need to get more.

[MathBlade]

No lynching is anti Town.

It's not if you're pretty sure we're just going to mislynch out of apathy. We move into tomorrow and we can 1v1.

It absolutely is. If you know scum has to be in those barrels and you have unlimited bullets and you don't fire you don't narrow down potential scum. Scum won't kill inside those barrels unless forced to which may be a thing I hope I have explained.

[MathBlade]

I have the most posts as Town as well Jae. I have a posting problem maybe. But it is NAI.

Just double checked yuri mafia. Yes and no, though I can't remember if you ate the lover lynch early on which might negate that.

You're at the most amount of posts here and you were in Shadowrun as well. Throw me a scum game where you didn't have the most amount of posts and I'll concede it's NAI but for now it very much does seem AI.

I ate lover lynch early in that game JaeReed.

All games I post a shit ton in. I can't show you what doesn't exist. As town (Mass Effect) I posted a lot here I do Shadowrun I do. It is literally NAI. I can't show you a scum lurker game because I don't lurk ever. I take pride in matching Town and scum games to a T and do my damndest to avoid having tells. I work at it so people have more fun.

[MathBlade]

Mass Effect: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rt_order=d

Only beeboy had more and I was a replace in. Please stop saying shit is AI when it isn't. It is really annoying.

[MathBlade]

I'm so frustrated with this gamestate. I don't know what to do. I need a hug.

/me hugs you

Lynch PV?

[MathBlade]

Already I'm thinking his lynch won't give us much information regardless of his alignment.

Lynches are for scums. Not information.

[MathBlade]

I don't care about whether it appeals to you. I care about whether or not you think he is scum. If not who do you think is scum and vote there.

[MathBlade]

....Shadowrun Mafia I was literally posting that much because there was no night for me. I was forced to. I can show you scum games where I am not the top poster but I am always near the top. I am on vacation for a few days from work so I am spending them in bed recovering from bronchitis and I happen to have more time to play mafia on my phone. I have to get some work done tomorrow so you will see me less.

[MathBlade]

Some people like Ank don't bother with cases. It infuriates me. Some people don't play mafia for cases. Some people are logical players like me who use mechanics. Some are more "tone". The "tone" players do adopt the fuck cases just lynch player approach and it drives me insane because I am three steps back and can never tell when they are lying because they don't explain and ergo I don't trust them.

I've basically detailed my entire playstyle to you and you're still pulling this bullshit?

Maybe

It's possible

That people

Don't think

The way you do

No logic no trust. Always the way it will be with me. No reasons no agreement. I don't have a "read their emotions" setting.

[MathBlade]

Scum game where I am not top poster: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rt_order=d

[MathBlade]

No logic no trust. Always the way it will be with me. No reasons no agreement. I don't have a "read their emotions" setting.

Except when I explain my logic you don't agree with it based on it not fitting your logic so... :/ It's not no logic. It's "not my logic" that causes you to have issues with things. And that's what people are taking issue with.

Your logic is not logical. Ergo not logic.

[MathBlade]

Now we can call you stubborn.

Never said I wasn't.

[MathBlade]

This is the last game we're playing together, then.

Probably for the best if you never actually want to explain your reads or ya know lynch scum.

[MathBlade]

If you don't follow if then else in a manner that has cohesion yes it is not logic.

I sometimes do have errors in logic.

If you wish to vote someone who there is an innocent on you have to explain away the innocent more than I don't trust it. The onus is on you to disprove it. Once someone is conf scum like Maxous you have to do more than say trap you must demonstrate it. Once demonstrated a liar you must prove that you are telling the truth. That is how Mafia works.

I do not just accept faulty logic. I won't and never will. No matter how much it is asked.

[MathBlade]

When I do have those errors something like what Not Chara did where there was one element of potential extrapolation is helpful. What Ank and you are doing is not.

[MathBlade]

This is the last game we're playing together, then.

Probably for the best if you never actually want to explain your reads or ya know lynch scum.

Considering explaining reads gets us nowhere with you there's honestly no point. You'll just decide that everyone but you is wrong anyway.

Thought it, but didn't wanna be the one to say it.

It takes time and a logical argument for me to adjust. Repeating yourself and/or bad logic 10 times in the hood doesn't change things. Look at how my reads have altered especially when I was trying to find people with Maxous and who I questioned about mechanics. I came around to Gio being likely town after Town derp. I am stubborn and I am loud but I do listen to reasoned out arguments and to paint me as such is shit. I just don't take bullshit as a valid form of currency.

[MathBlade]

Correct then it is up to them to fix their mistake after they do not act logically. It is not up to me to allow subpar play. Logic trumps emotion. Emotion can be fake. Logic is a hell of a lot harder to.

[MathBlade]

Hahaha funny. Maybe I disagree because I am a robot. (That sentence is an attempt at humor)

No they really aren't to me. I have trouble displaying emotions of any kind IRL.

Let's move on from this Segway and lynch scum.

[MathBlade]

Why did you vote me there?

[MathBlade]

Let me guess no answer because your gut is perfect?

[MathBlade]

Well to me, referring to meta isn't logical. To me, someone who keeps referring to their meta is scummy. To me, someone who keeps making unnecessary LAMIST posts is scummy.
These are all reads typical of me, and my playstyle doesn't take meta into account.
The fact that you asked me to lynch PV (someone you have admitted to not having reads on) means you don't have a better scumread on anyone or you want an easy mislynch.

This is incorrect. I can't read him because he is not posting but what he is posting is garbage.

I do not keep referring to my meta. People refer to my meta (E.G. JaeReed and activity levels) and I correct that.
I feel every post I make is necessary. LAMIST is a classification done by an outsider reading the post. It is impossible to do a LAMIST post.
My reads take in as much logical data as possible. That includes speech patterns sentence structure word phrasing everything.

I believe scum are in a certain pool. My other scum reads won't be lynched today because of needing others. So PV looks like it is it today. Would much rather Yoshi or Almost50.

[MathBlade]

See if you can figure out why I'm voting you.

Without any logical data it is impossible.

[MathBlade]

I'm not going to budge on revealing anything until you start figuring these things out, so chop chop.

Hope you brought food because as an Aspie I literally can't. So have a good meal whatever time it is for you. When you want to explain your read is when I can work with that. Til then it is just noise.

[MathBlade]

Every emotion I have in every game I do every word I say is genuine. I can't fake emotion and it is nigh on impossible for me to lie. In the rare instances as scum or town I know a person has to I have to go back and put myself in that raw emotion.

There are a few trigger points for me one of which is gender. If you hit those trigger points then and only then do I become a ball of illogical goo. Telling me to figure someone out is about as effective as telling a rock to climb stairs.

[MathBlade]

I'd be impressed if you figured it out.

I can't. You are going to have to tell me why you scum read me.

[MathBlade]

I play mafia to compile a better database of inputs so I read people better but I never will be as good as an NT I can't. But I try to take the limit and approach Infinity to where there is no perceptible difference.

[MathBlade]

Ank's vote on you isn't based on logic, hence you can't presume it's an end result of them scumreading you.

Exactly. I don't know how they got there. I would have the same problem if he voted anyone else.

[MathBlade]

If the Speakeasy didn't have a privacy policy I would so be citing it right now.

[MathBlade]

It is completely uncalled for to say I am lying about a mental condition.
I can't explain the reads part without giving away all of my scum play and doing a trust tell. I am ignoring those last two sentences.

[MathBlade]

No, I've been scumreading Mathblade pretty consistently for a while now.

The info I got from this exchange only makes me more sure that slot is scum.

Then explain it. Convince people.

[MathBlade]

Okay. Assume I am scum. Explain why I am scum.
Assume I am Town. Explain what consequences derive there of.

Have a discussion Ank.

[MathBlade]

It is completely uncalled for to say I am lying about a mental condition.
I can't explain the reads part without giving away all of my scum play and doing a trust tell. I am ignoring those last two sentences.

Oh my god I didn't understand you were talking about a mental condition. I am so sorry. I'll just shut up now and take a break.

Apology accepted.

[MathBlade]

Thanks. Really, I am so sorry. I'll take 1000 ice packs after I go bang my head on a wall a few million more times.

*builds a barrier so Yoshi doesn't need any ice packs*

As much as some things frustrate me about people my therapist says ignorance cannot be taken offense of. This was that. I am an acquired taste.

[MathBlade]

Also, Idgaf. Also, I don't believe you.

Uh yeah this is kinda over the line. I can confirm Math isn't lying about real life conditions.

Yoshi has apologized let's move on and play Mafia.

[MathBlade]

To be clear a mental condition is not alignment indicative. A trigger point is not alignment indicative. Yoshi's post about not believing me is not dick indicative. If you scum read me fine. Do so and explain why.

If you don't explain them I will not trust you. That is how I roll.

[MathBlade]

Yeah I thought the thread was still at where I had read for some reason.

UNVOTE:

I don't have any reads I'm comfortable with pushing to a lynch now. Math wouldn't have brought up what they did as scum I think.

I am transparent as either alignment. I would bring this up as scum or town or 3P. I almost ripped into Wake for Gistou gender shit as I was a balling mess and threw my keyboard. If you are going to townread me so be it but never assume I would or wouldn't do something as any alignment.

[MathBlade]

I think Ank and I being in the hood together started a hilarity of events because we are so diametrically opposed. I can't read Ank and can't trust him for that reason. It is for the same reason I don't think Ank can trust me.

@JaeReed -- It may be. If it is I will have to adjust my scum play to compensate. In my scum games it usually never happens to have this level of conflict to where it comes out.

[MathBlade]

Erm just a moment please.

[MathBlade]

I would say the same I said to Ank. Assume I am Town what are the consequences. What if I am scum? What teams emerge? With how many Town have gone down it may be a good idea to think in teams.

[MathBlade]

If it is I will have to adjust my scum play to compensate.

Crap I shouldn't have explained it =P I could have had an easier time reading you in the future.

It makes for a better mafia game if a person has no meta tells.

[MathBlade]

Same question to you Yoshi. Think through the options. What comes up?

[MathBlade]

Creeps20 scum, I conversed with them on something weird he said. They called me confirmed scum once, which is a stretch on words. No reason to TR them.
This of course means Gio/Narna scum. Hard for me to believe Narna just derped. I also think it's... convenient that Giovanni came to Narna's rescue with a weak clear. Did he announce he was gonna check Narna beforehand? PV also hammered on him for not crumbing on who he would target before he claimed, which makes sense to me if you're actually a weak role.
They haven't contributed much lately either. What say you on this theory? Need more?

It is possible but admittedly runs through a lot of hoops. Mainly we will probably learn more by who dies in that case. Namely if anyone in the chain dies and isn't Town then either they can't kill or Gio+Narna. If someone outside it dies if either narrows potential scum or identifies there was only one cult at the beginning. If no one dies and Nahdia doesn't Jailkeep that is a 1v1 between you and Nahdia.

I wrote a big wall about who I think scum could and couldn't kill in the hood and it is midnight so not in the mood to type it all out.

I would say don't be eager to type shit out. Before I got in depth with night actions I said I wanted time to read it. No reason you have to answer immediately. I do because of confidence and playstyle. If you need or want time take it.

[MathBlade]

...Gio I have a night action tonight only.
You should always crumb even if you think Town is playing idiocally. (Hence me and ice cream) These crumbs are something that may not make sense in the moment but would make sense if you flipped. Like if I had died at night and SirCakez had lived he would easily be able to know who I hit and why.

Accountant *sigh* Go check the hood.A lot of things happened.

[MathBlade]

Merry Christmas Eve if you celebrate. If you are like me merry oh shit I have three more presents to buy.

[MathBlade]

Translation offline most of the day.

[MathBlade]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

Assuming Gio is town, Gio checked Narna on N4 and got a could not kill? What does that mean to you? And what does that say about Narna's checks?

[MathBlade]

What purpose would a no lynch serve?

more checks, and honestly pretty much any death at this point would clarify something.

That means another no lynch down the line unless two killers come into play somehow. We have an odd amount alive now.

In essence this means no lynching today gives scum of whatever flavors exist the chance to kill two townies.

It is almost always better to lynch in this case unless you believe in a 6p scum team.

[MathBlade]

SirCakez: I meant why you gave things to the people you gave them to, not why you gave certain things themselves.

Oh
Night 1 I targeted Fire because I thought he would be able to use the BG effectively and he was a townread
Nights 2/4 Andrius was a solid townread iirc so I chose him.
And last night I picked Math because of how active they are in thread and so they'd be able to strategize the Neopolitan well

For those town and not convinced that Math is scum:

Math has decided SirCakez is town because they can confirm his role through having received the Neapolitan.
Math has decided my slot is scum

despite

my slot claiming VT early, and offering to be the check from Titus, and returning a Vanilla result from Titus. Math has decided my slot is either Goon or Cult because of this.

These two viewpoints cannot exist together and be genuine. They just cannot. This is the logical progression that Math has as town which they do not have as scum. Town Math would decide either Cakez is not town just because of the role being confirmed to them, or they would decide that my slot is town. There would be consistency. There is not. Ergo, Math is scum.

This baffles me
How is Math's townread on me related to a scumread on you?

Creeps is not on the table. He is one of Narna's checks :face palm:

What? When?

I don't think NC is scum, either. Can we no lynch?

What purpose would a no lynch serve?

It was mentioned on d5. Phone posting but will look it up later.

[MathBlade]

Gio is claimed Weak. Gio isn't dead.

[MathBlade]

i don't think Giovanni is scum anymore.

Assuming Gio is town, Gio checked Narna on N4 and got a could not kill? What does that mean to you? And what does that say about Narna's checks?

obviously, it means Narna isn't groupscum, and Narna's checks are probably town, barring shenanigans. it also means scum are playing oddly, or have roles that can mess with checks somewhow.

Exactly. So they know Narna and myself are making checks. What are the odds of multiple scum roles that affect things? So either me or Narna's check will be valid or one of me or Narna are scum.

Nahdia should not be blocking me or Narna so the odds of three roleblockers or multiple ascetics is pretty low.

So we sort me and Jae and then we can sort Narna.

Narna and/or Gio check me. I check Jae.

If I get a guilty but Narna says I can't kill or Gio visits me and he doesn't die then Jae is scum or scum messed with my check which confirms Narna framer theory.

If I get an innocent then Jae is damn near conf town barring god father.

If Gio or Narna check me and get a guilty then we lynch me to prove I am Town and then it is most likely that my results on Jae are reliable because Gio and/or Narna's wouldn't be.

It is a circle jerk of results but it only works if we know who is checking who so we can figure out where any shenanigans are if any.

If scum NK Gio or Narna to stop the circle jerk I find it unlikely even if Ank gets hammers that four people would die. How they try to stop the circle jerk means a lot.

With the push to lynch me instead of Maxous it seems clear to me but if y'all don't understand the circle jerk then it can't go forward.

[MathBlade]

However if Gio dies and Narna gets an innocent and he is the only death besides if Ank gets hammers and inexplicably shoots Accountant then we don't know if scum shot him or weak but then Narna likely town with an innocent on me.

Pretty much we need anyone in the circle jerk to declare actions before night so we can understand the rammifications. Sure scum in that group could lie but they would be caught.

[MathBlade]

Back to shopping for me hooray

[MathBlade]

Anything can happen. I am relying on what people say about the mechanics not them directly themselves.

For example Ank is doubtcast ing the results without a Why. Yes it is a bastard game. But that doesn't mean you neuter everything and go with gut. It is a puzzle. Just because one piece is a weird shape or unknown doesn't mean you throw random pieces together. That is why the circle jerk is effective. If you are a godfather then you get confirmed for a bit and then if everyone left in the game is 'cleared' then there is ample history to figure out who is aligned. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water because bastard.

[MathBlade]

At this late in the game when town is in such a precarious position, we need answers and we need them now.
I'm skeptical about this circle jerk because it could lead into even more confusion and less answers. I think in that situation it is very easily for someone to lie about their results and slide by through however much of this game is left.
Do I have a better idea? No. However, do I think better ideas exist? Yes.
Unfortunately, I think lynching someone within that circle jerk is our best option, it gives us truthful information immediately. Even one of Narna's "clears" could do.

Lynching within the circle jerk is ridiculous. *blinks*

JaeReed is a dumb lynch because I can tell everyone how he checks. That makes me a dumb lynch. Similar for Narna and Gio. We learn more with them alive and deviates from the plan would be in trouble if we didn't discuss it before hand.

Time is ticking and I notice only those outside the clears have a problem with it. I wonder why.

[MathBlade]

We have two days it needs to be spam or Yoshi and people have hesitations about Yoshi.

[MathBlade]

PV* wow autocorrect.

[MathBlade]

Why would you vote a townread? And why are you assuming an extra faction instead of cult turned scum faction? Both has as much evidence.

[MathBlade]

At this late in the game when town is in such a precarious position, we need answers and we need them now.
I'm skeptical about this circle jerk because it could lead into even more confusion and less answers. I think in that situation it is very easily for someone to lie about their results and slide by through however much of this game is left.
Do I have a better idea? No. However, do I think better ideas exist? Yes.
Unfortunately, I think lynching someone within that circle jerk is our best option, it gives us truthful information immediately. Even one of Narna's "clears" could do.

Lynching within the circle jerk is ridiculous. *blinks*

JaeReed is a dumb lynch because I can tell everyone how he checks. That makes me a dumb lynch. Similar for Narna and Gio. We learn more with them alive and deviates from the plan would be in trouble if we didn't discuss it before hand.

Time is ticking and I notice only those outside the clears have a problem with it. I wonder why.

Did we even hear from Gio or Narna about this? I think that that makes this statement invalid.

Have*

[MathBlade]

I have work to do. You said your vote would be on the strongest TR you had. Not with. I gotta go.

[MathBlade]

If I am gonna vote to lynch consider it to be

on whoever my strongest TR Ank

decides

on

.

Last response.

On. Not with. Vote on someone = want to lynch them. Vote on townread bad.

[MathBlade]

So if Ank says lynch between players 1,2,3 and you townread player 3 why would you vote player 3?

[MathBlade]

Almost just finish reading please.

[MathBlade]

The more important question: Zakk was a flavor cop how does PV suspect/believe the others are dogs?

And why is that his post when he is suspected of being a low content poster?

<3 Accountant Thanks

[MathBlade]

Merry Christmas and Happy Feast of WinterVeil to all.

[MathBlade]

Dog = flavor. How does PV check flavor and know/suspect someone of being a dog? It seems odd. Especially with Zakk a flavor cop dead. It is also odd he calls out dogs. Why is that important?

[MathBlade]

If NC has Giovanni is lock town then Giovanni claimed to have weak followed Narna.

Therefore it doesn't make sense to say Gio is lock town without Narna also being lock-town.

It does if he thinks Narna is scum psychologist designed to find Ank and Maxous with a gf tag.

[MathBlade]

This was also to Narna. With all the cop claims it is foolish to think evil doesn't have a gf.

[MathBlade]

Look at the first page for my wincon cfj.

[MathBlade]

Thanks for replacing in!

[MathBlade]

There's a chance for A50 to have pocketed me for being one of the few people that are making any sense this game. Same with Not Chara playing mediator and Yoshi.
I have my hard townreads. That's who I'm not voting. That's the only group that I find obvtown at this stage. My read on Math was wrong and I was viewing the gamestate with Math being all but confscum earlier, which colors reads also.

I see.

pretty much on the same page as chara except i wouldnt really call almost50 as lock-town, but i guess he's close-ish?

honestly, just by reads, peregrine is the guy i wanna lynch the least in that group. i'm really tempted to say fuck it and vote accountant.

Weren't you super hungry for an Almost lynch earlier?

we havent found any scum.

Gaster was scum no?

lock-town: Almost, Nahdia, Mathblade, Giovanni.

Where am I?

kek

If I am wrong on SirCakez it is only if he has the same alignment as JaeReed. I hate this post reaction.

[MathBlade]

Without getting into the whole Narna please do X routine again I think it may depend on the exact wording of Narna's role PM

If they are checking on N2 if someone could kill that is different than since. It may end up with many false clears. Would be interested in an Ank check from this slot and then verify something.