Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Titus]

@Cheetory, When you're absolutely getting in an angry tizzy for me suggesting your read on DV/4ity is nothing more than a lurker and suggesting you look elsewhere, it looks like you do have a hard on for the slot.

I understand you're baffled, but I don't think you've ever played with town me. Scum!me you've seen. Everything is carefully orchestrated to get the result I want. Doublebus in the game you modded, designed to get an end result. The only agenda I have as town is the truth. The truth to me is much more defined in gamestate and facts which cannot be twisted versus playstle and behavior which can be.

Even if we supposed to hunt off the Bulba wagon, I'd want to hunt for scum actually doing something to create this gamestate. This is a seasoned group of players. I doubt we'd all be fooled into chasing our tails by lurking scum.

@Mastina, don't you lurk again. That's all I have to say about your love affair right now. You are leaving me high and dry and then coming back and saying I'm great. I can't win the game by myself. I'm not a vig.

[Titus]

yeah I'll admit it's a low-impact-player lynch

but that post by Shadoweh I quoted originally is SUCH a just-actin-casual scumpost

I think it's a great place to start

You see what I did with Singer. I don't want you to analyze the content, but grab me multiple posts. Tell me what her agenda has been this game as scum. Show me a world where Scum Shadoweh is possible. You don't need to be as wordy as me but show me how. What was she doing each minor and major day phase that promoted a scum agenda?

[Titus]

@Mastina, I'm not so sure on the last part about the no lynch being as good as a mislynch. I'll have to run the numbers again. During my insomnia last real world night, I realized something hinky happens after UT dies.

[Titus]

9 alive, 4 scum.
Lynch two scum that day.
Scum kill three.
Endgame is 2 v 2. Scum win, as they will not lynch themselves. So 10 is lylo with four scum.

If we no lynch here, and presume scum kill two in UT/Mastina/CDB/TTH, then we wind up with 14 alive at daybreak tomorrow. We could then theoretically, no lynch (although optimalness would be debated) and force an 11 player lylo. If we didn't no lynch on Day 3, then we would have at most one lynch to play with.


If we lynch and guess wrong here, that puts us at 13 alive tomorrow. The game would be a pure mylo, forcing a no lynch situation as any mislynch would hand scum the game.

[Titus]

Surviving townbloc:

TTH
Titus
Shadoweh

Town:

Oversoul
ActionDan
ChannelDelibird

Townish:

Gammagooey
Formerfish/Marquis

Scummish:

Untrod Tripod
Aronis
vezokpiraka

Scum:

Cheetory6
Espeonage
singersigner
DeasVail

Approximately.

I'd move Cheetory up a bit (few things give me pause but overall townish) and DV up due to the gamestate. Aronis and Vezok would move down a bit. UT moves up as his latest play has improved dramatically and there's another reason you'll see why.

[Titus]

This game is absurdly scum sided.

Why?

Any game where scum have a shit ton of PR info is going to help scum immensely but I'm not seeing where this is scumsided.
We have/had a bulletproof, a doctor bulletproof, a tracker, a possible watcher, a universal backup, a sort of innocent child and that's just the revealed PRs. We also had two lynches per day which means that town can immediately react to the results of a flip. The fact we can't get the second lynch going is not an indication of poor balance, but poor play on our part.

[Titus]

Also mastin gives me the tiniest bit of hope for the future.

With the future being in the form of a dead Espeonage

VOTE: Espeonage

Top two wagons atm make me want to cry

There is an Aronis wagon you know, from yesterday. We can't afford to be going off on our own atm.

[Titus]

I know. I'm probably going to default to it if these continue to be the only other choices.

OR possibly Anx wagon happens (very possible!) and then there'd be a real choice

Anx wagon?

[Titus]

TTH, Because there's no good reason provided to lynch her and in the early game she was really fucking town. If you disagree, make a case showing her scum agenda. I don't see it. I am open to being reasoned with, I'm telling you what I need to see TTH. If you don't do that, the odds of persuading me there's anything to a Shadoweh wagon are slim considering your last push on Bulba I felt had the same issues.

[Titus]

Yeah, I would be willing to do Espy. I am not willing to do 4ity.

[Titus]

And I highly doubt Aronis is town.

Hating someone's scum pool but saying it's a plausible team. Real estate allocation means nothing if DV's legit not having the time. AD hasn't pushed much, Aronis IS scum, Bulba was scumread by everyone, and GiF was lurking. So yeah, as much as I think DV's pool was mostly wrong, I still think yours is too TTH.

[Titus]

Titus are you joking.
You're willing to vote off of the Bulba wagon but only as long as it isn't DVslot?
You've expressed that you'd at least consider Shadow and Espe now. Like.
Gahhhhhhhhhhhh.

I'm willing to compromise but it has to be something with evidence showing how the hell we got to this clusterfuck with them as scum. I'm not seeing that with DV. Disagreeing with his scum team is NOT a reason to lynch him. People don't like being told they are wrong, even more so than finding out they are wrong.

[Titus]

I'm considering all of them, I'm just wanting something that actually resembles evidence. We did this whole cocky "I don't like Bulba's scum pool VCA" dance before. Now instead of VCA, It's lurking and not liking the scumpool.

[Titus]

Real estate allocation means nothing if DV's legit not having the time.

No, it means a lot

especially

if DV legit doesn't have enough time. People will spend time on what they think is important.

Yeah and most people value RL more than a game. So I'm not getting your point.

[Titus]

@UT, Mastina hasn't got to that part yet. I learned the hard way, Mastina makes her catchups as she reads the thread. Not after. I hammered her in Organic Chemistry because I thought she was ignoring calls to claim. You have to accept that fact. It's just how she is.

[Titus]

Real estate allocation means nothing if DV's legit not having the time.

No, it means a lot

especially

if DV legit doesn't have enough time. People will spend time on what they think is important.

Yeah and most people value RL more than a game. So I'm not getting your point.

What they spend time doing

while they're here

.

I still don't get your point. DV actually gives reads and explains them. Aronis gives no explanation and laughs in our faces.

[Titus]

You want drunk!Titus? I'll see what I can do tonight.

[Titus]

I am getting this close to just giving up at this point. I see the Bulba lynch repeating itself and I feel powerless to stop it.

[Titus]

So you're not believing me about Mastina doing that or???

[Titus]

nah man

we can DO THIS

we can make a better lynch happen

we just have to ditch this townbloc let's all be friends BULLSHIT and throw down

we all know who I want to lynch

I'd vote Shadoweh over DV, but I think the cases for both SUCK. Please do what I asked. I'll put it in question form.

How was Shadoweh's minor day 1 play helpful to scum?
How was Shadoweh's major day 1 helpful to scum?
Minor Day 2?
Today?

[Titus]

meanwhile, who is your super secret scumread

who do you want lynched but don't think you can make it happen

we can make it happen

Singer is who I want but can't have.
Aronis is my compromise.
Espy after that.
Then Action Dan.

[Titus]

I will get around to that tonight or tomorrow

I PROMISE

Good until someone does those I'm going to think the Shadoweh case sucks. I believe my own evidence until refuted. That's the way I am. You refuted my thinking on you. It is possible.

[Titus]

meanwhile, who is your super secret scumread

who do you want lynched but don't think you can make it happen

we can make it happen

Singer is who I want but can't have.
Aronis is my compromise.
Espy after that.
Then Action Dan.

Even though Mastin is hard scum reading DV?

Yes. Working with people doesn't mean abandoning my feelings on the gamestate or my own reads. If she gave me something more than meta, I am listening but what I've seen directly contradicts what she sees.

[Titus]

Oversoul, who do you want?

What's your take on TTH scumreading you?

[Titus]

Who do you want lynched? Why are you voting 4ity over Aronis?

[Titus]

As soon as we get a scum lynch, wagon analysis is going to be nuts.

Yes, but we actually need to stop lynching my townreads first.

[Titus]

Because I feel like what I am saying is fucking pointless despite going out of my way to work with people. That's fucking why.

[Titus]

I've been proven right on Bulba yet people are rewashing the same case to vote DV. Oh and don't get me started on the morons voting me despite having been told by a near majority if not majority that I'm unlynchable.

[Titus]

Yeah, maybe not in the long run, but people have expressed they are not voting me. Your vote is literally a wasted vote Espy.

[Titus]

@Vezok, the Adonis wagon has not stalled. Get back on please.

@CDB, The game was over two years old, requires registration to see and is off-site. I highly doubt anyone would find that if not looking. I have more off-site games with Ikea that fuel my crumbs with GiF. The advantage of having a lot of meta with a player is you can crumb with them and get only them to see. All of my crumbs to ika through GiF have the same effort level but registration is not required for most.
Second, the doctor claim was unprompted from him. My team and I were confused but thought it did not make sense for GiF to say he's a doctor out of the blue unless town and the proper play was to protect him.

[Titus]

Wow, another singer wagon jump without a reason. She has no problem jumping on 4ity but skips Aronis despite not trusting Adonis and not having confidence 4ity is scum. Wake up please.

[Titus]

Oh yeah, like I can find a reason for TSO or Bulba? No. Your vote here was naked after Adonis gets voted by CDB. You are doing more than just not voting any wagon I endorse but blatantly attempting to make sure only my downloads get lynched. Hmmm...given Bulba's flip with the same exact people on it gives you no pause because you are just reacting to make sure a wagon counters Aronis.
The last thing you said about 4ity was you didn't think the wagon was good.

Now you vote it after Adonis gets a vote.

[Titus]

Titus are you joking.
You're willing to vote off of the Bulba wagon but only as long as it isn't DVslot?
You've expressed that you'd at least consider Shadow and Espe now. Like.
Gahhhhhhhhhhhh.

Cheetory.

She's scum.

Protecting her buddies.

I'm not 100% ok with a DV slot lynch.

I think CDB and his team's analysis of Singer's reservations about UT vote are pretty spot on.
That is kind of shit reasoning. I completely forgot Alquin was even a thing and honestly thought it was one of the lurkers but #YOLO

Mina and Zar agree with you. If we're wrong you can reprimant me and Regfan postgame. Until then, you can feel free to either try to prove us wrong now or stfu.

For now, I'll just sheep my biggest townreads because I don't trust anyone on the Titus wagon despite their willingness to vote with me.

unvote
vote: 4nxi3ty

Doesn't trust Aronis. Skips him to vote someone she's not ok lynching.

[Titus]

Why does Nina have a tiebreak on DV?

[Titus]

God Damn New phone autocorrect.

Why does Mina have a townread on DV?

[Titus]

Yo. Aronis wagon is not dead. CDB just got on. Come back please.

[Titus]

I have. Aronis is not scumhunting or giving reasons for his reads. It's near impossible to get a wagon on him. He's literally lurking out his wagon.

[Titus]

Aronis is not scumhunting or giving reasons for his reads

Does Aronis not do this as town?

This is team mafia. He would relay his team's reads. His team would tell him to give reasons as it would help him.

I don't care for pure meta anyway. He is not aggressive as a personality but he was willing to at least fake engage Singer when more people were alive. Now he's coasting.

Besides, if we excuse Aronis because he's always anti-town why would scum ever bus?

[Titus]

If either 4ity or Adonis has a claim, they should make it now to avoid last minute scrambles.

[Titus]

Wow looks like someone's trying to get more town PRs lynched.

[Titus]

esp is town because he has an actually town mindset, which is called thus because he is thinking like town.

case closed problem solved let's all go home and have a drink

Can you show me examples?

[Titus]

@Gamma, I never go fish in an I SO.

As for the rest, fair enough for now.

[Titus]

Prod dodging just til Sunday, hopefully. Just make sure everyone says their piece, including a claims discussion. Expect a big wall when I get back.

[Titus]

Vezok the response to you.

Why would DV trace Espeonage if DV was town reading Espeonage for almost the entire game?

Before Minor Night 2, DV made a really big post explaining why he thought Espeonage was town. You don't use your trace like that if you think the person is town.

You trace the people you're feeling paranoid about, and could be mislynch wagons.

I do see the Viktor tracking claim being real. Viktor traking is a relatively weaker power-role, it detects only one scum and comes with additional baggage that makes him look scummy if he claims that. I don't see scum putting together a claim with a suspicious PR here. I'd expect something more traditional, ala gunsmith. That claim would be much better than a Viktor cop. Given Viktor is essentially someone who can just claim that he traced the entire time and get away, putting a Viktor counter role makes sense.

If there wasn't a role that could detect Viktor, why wouldn't they say that Viktor IMMUNE to all traces. Instead, the role says that any trace on Victor will "return no result".

Target a player. If they detected and you were not Traced, you will receive the name of the player they detected. Otherwise, you will receive no result.

Again, no result. The word choice is key IMO.

I like the idea of eliminating players as Viktor. If 4ity was scum, why would he eliminate players as Victor? He could say something like that Minor Night 1, tracked TTH, got no result. Given we know that TTH was

already

fucked with by Vezok, claiming that makes more sense than clearing Singer of being Victor.

He then using his trace on someone widely scumread to protect them or readjust his reads.


When he clears them both of being Victor, he votes with them. He's still totally wrong, but the narrative there makes sense to me.

[Titus]

Ah. That claim is horrible but I still want aronis dead.

Titus guide me.

We don't lynch 4ity. Mislynching is the worst thing we can do here. He has to give us another result before we lynch again as I highly doubt scum will kill him.. CDB can track him (if you still think it's plausible that CDB will get a result at all).

If we don't lynch Aronis, we no lynch. That is the proper play here.

[Titus]

@Oversoul, we can only narrow down who Victor is if we risked outing all PRs. Too risky. By having a Viktor cop, we can narrow down who Viktor is, and have people claim traces if they failed on people that 4ity has not checked.

The implication of which one of you people traced me was that TTH traced and did not detect. So I'm not sure on your second point.

Oh and I am posting if there's a question directed specifically at me and I'm here.

[Titus]

i now support lynching titus for being awful

after we lynch 4nxi3ty

and ut

and shadoweh

so
eventually

Wow, I'm just awful really. That's it. I'm actually thinking your rush here to condemn 4ity is terrible despite some of his claim you believing. But it's horrible in a logical sense. You've got one worldview and you're not even listening to reason.

[Titus]

Oh I forgot. Viktor just saying he traced causes all trace results to fail.

So Viktor would claim VT here. No questions asked. So he can't just be detected by failed traces.

[Titus]

titus

i've already explained exactly why I think what I do about the claim

I think it's very likely made up by scum and you using hito's wording of Viktor's ability to defend 4nx when it needs to be worded that way to function with how it returns no result when the tracer is also being traced is fucking horrific.

So basically reading the first post is horrible? Yeah. I should have listened to UT on you. Shame, if he could have actually given reasons.

You've not said ANYTHING of substance on 4ity's claim being horrible. You just said, this part sounds true, but that part sounds bad. So I'm going to jump straight to the bad part. You're not asking WHY? Why would scum do that? Town?

You're just shoving it down our throats. Yet, that's exactly what happened with Bulbazak.

[Titus]

If anybody traced me last night, you're an asshole.

Wait, why is this an issue? Traces do not prevent Detects from going through?

Nope. Detects work even if traced. Traces only block Traces. Read the first post again.

[Titus]

Espy claimed a trace on me, but that's beside the point. You misread that sentence.

TTH said that specifically because his trace failed. His trace failed logically because someone else traced him or he hit Viktor or a VT. If no one traced TTH that night, we knew that TTH's trace target was VT or Viktor. Yet, now we know nothing because Vezok traced TTH.

Yes, we do have PRs out to determine who Victor is. VTs trace. Our PRs detect. We go around claiming traces, then we confirm who is a PR and who is a VT.

A trace on Viktor actually confirms nothing. Any Viktor, given the fact if someone traced them is going to claim to trace every night.

VT Trace (TTH) + VT Trace (Target) = no result = false positive on Viktor.
Vezok trace TTH === Auto No Result
TTH traces Viktor == No result.

^^ Those are the three scenarios we could have had.

[Titus]

Yeah, we'll just keep lynching the PRs for no fucking reason with the same fucking people on the wagon.

[Titus]

UT

DV's night actions make little sense from his point of view.
He was hard defending Espeonage as town, yet he chooses to see if he is Viktor?

There is a certain pattern to DV's traces IMO. He picked people that others thought were scum but he actively didn't. That serves two purposes if he's right, it becomes harder to mislynches. If he's wrong, he can tell who Viktor is to the group.

Right now, I am pretty certain lynching Adonis is the right play. I think we absolutely cannot afford a mislynch. This wagon matches Bulba's far too much for me to be comfortable going anywhere near it. Is it theoretically possible 4city's scum and I have blinders on. Sure. Yet when I feel outlasted, it only makes me want to push more.

People are actually having the discussion I wanted to have now that I am not here.

Before I go again, I want to highlight one more thing...

Math for each plausible worst case scenario assuming UT town

No lynch
16 Alive at Nightfall
14 Alive at Daybreak Day 3
One mislynch, then no lynch
13 alive at nightfall, 10 alive at daybreak

Scum Lynch
15 alive at nightfall
13 at Daybreak
2 mislynches
11 alive at Nightfall
8 alive at Daybreak
Two scum lynches
6 at night
3 at Daybreak

Town mislynch
15 alive a nightfall
13 at Daybreak
Game at Lylo.

Tomorrow is important for the game state overall. Much more so than today, so I am going to try to limit myself to one post every twelve hours provided we are actually discussing things rather than acting like a herd mentality. I realize after talking with BBT that my overloading occurs at the start of the game during early read formation and when I feel ignored.

I get a few of you rely on meta overly much but we cannot afford a mislynch today. I am going to sit on Adonis because I think it is the right lynch but I am also concerned that maybe no lynching is right today.

[Titus]

*overloading = overloading

I may have edit corrections.

[Titus]

The only exception to the post limit is if someone asks me a question.

[Titus]

TITUS

I posted A TON of shit and you completely ignored it

what is the deal

I did. I'm not seeing how Gamma gets lynched today. I figured that your points were brought up too late to swing a lynch there. My focus is making sure all town people get along tomorrow. If your Gamma reasoning is persuasive, I have every intent of brining it up tomorrow. I wish you would have brought those up sooner, so we could adequately discuss them. A rushed discussion at this point doesn't do us good. Gamma should respond today, but the best approach to your Gamma read is to act like I'm on a jury rather than a counselor persuading for a particular objective and let cooler heads prevail. I think you're both town and engaging that point might just fuel a tunnel that doesn't help us prepare for tomorrow.

This is as much a mental chess and endurance game. Scum are going to want a mislynch here above all else, because of the gamestate it leaves for us tomorrow. Prove we can swing a Gamma lynch, then we can talk more, but more chaos is not what we need here. We need to unite.

*Must resist urge to tunnel war with Singer who is pushing a mislynch based in bullshit*

P:edit: UT and Cheet beat me to it.

[Titus]

@UT, You're missing the point, prove we can get the votes on Gamma if I switch or prove that Aronis 100% is not happening. Otherwise, there's no point in engaging your case because people seem to not want to do anything I want to do and advocate aggressively for, so I have to try a new tactic.

[Titus]

I'll admit I am one, who else do you think is?

[Titus]

I meant that I'm indifferent due to it being unlikely to swing a lynch. Who else is saying that, regardless of your read on them from your perspective?

[Titus]

@UT, I am reading. Don't get me wrong. Yet, if I was even willing to vote Gamma at deadline, Singer won't. Singer's reads are literally the opposite of whatever I would do. If I advocate for it, then Singer won't do it. Honestly, if you'd want both of us voting for it, the best move for us is for me to fake being resistant to it. Singer would vote it. Then Cheetory and Oversoul. Then we'd still have to swing a couple more. That's even supposing an ideal gamestate. I just literally don't see the numbers.

So that's my issue. Don't suppose I'm not reading because I can't get to 9.

[Titus]

So you have
UT/Oversoul/S or T/Cheetory/4ity or Aronis

That's 5. Where are the other 4.

[Titus]

do you only ever vote people when you know with 100% certainty you can get the numbers?

because that would be really dumb

No but I'm concerned with fracturing the town over something that may not get a lynch. Today is less important than tomorrow.

I'd rather no lynch than lynch wrong.

@Channel, Suppose we could get the votes, what's deficient about UT's case?

[Titus]

@Channel, Suppose we could get the votes, what's deficient about UT's case?

THE POST IS ON

THIS

PAGE FFS

Yeah, I'm seeing playstyle issue not a logic issue on why his case is bad.

[Titus]

yeah he doesn't have a reason

he's just doing that thing where you say something over and over again until people believe it

You win for now as I find that logic persuasive, because CDB is also harping back on trying to create the impression I'm not reading. You have 24 hours to swing votes to Gamma. If not, I'm voting Aronis again.

VOTE: Gamma

I hope you'd swing Aronis if you can't get the votes.

[Titus]

@UT, By not being here, that's the best I can do. Have you seen what happens when I advocate for a lynch UT? No one wants my thoughts at the moment. I'll be back in twelve-eighteen. If anyone bothers to address your case with bullshit, I'll correct it then. Besides, I have a work meeting in an hour and then its dinner with the in laws.

[Titus]

That's 12 -18 hours.

[Titus]

@CDB, I will try again. 6151 isn't about showing Gamma is town or how IT's case sucks. It just attacks the messenger. It also reads that you never considered UT bussing for cred. I don't think UT is, but you never considered it.

If UT is scum, that doesn't mean you ignore his case. Scum bussing is a thing, particularly on lynched that would not go through or are inevitable.

Your post merely attacks UT is scum therefore do not follow. The thing is if Singer makes an awesome case on her buddy, we should vote it.

I don't want to hear about UT scum. I want you to look at his case and tell me how IT's wrong and Gamma is town.

[Titus]

@Singer, I liked UT's case. Also, if you bothered reading my posts, you would know why I did not engage UT's case.

VOTE: Aronis

That being said, UT didn't get a single vote overnight. I kinda predicted that but wanted to give UT a chance. Gamma has done little things to nag me throughout the game. His reluctance to consider, even I theory, that Bulbs was a scumpush is one.

@Mastina, If you need a shortcut look at the wagons.

@UT, I tried, but Gamma is not happening. Join me on Aronis now?

@Oversoul, I get what you mean. That's generally how I feel in Agency Capture games.

[Titus]

@Singer, there's townish and then there's UT's case which blew it up. Frankly, there must be more than you on his wagon fmpov and Gamma is my weakest townread. However, you sidestepped. My posts clearly had me not engaging UT's case as not not clutter the thread. Yet, here you are trying to clutter the thread because you are desperate not to have people wake up and realize just how scum driven 4ity is.

I love how you paint me complying with requests from my townreads to post less as scummy.

[Titus]

*gamma is = gamma was

[Titus]

Do you think what is essentially a ninja is more likely to come from town or scum Titus?
Because that's the one part about 4nx's claim that I really believe to be true.

Town. Given the power, I was expecting more negative utility. His role is one that makes it harder for scum to kill him if they find out who he is (namely we have someone detect him). If 4ity does not announce he has that person's sign, we gain a lot of information. Second, if 4ity caught Viktor, healing him does not require Mastina but can be done by detecting him thus leaving us with conftown in lylo or forcing scum to burn abilities. Third, it makes clearing 4ity harder because of the fact scum can change his sign, making it harder for CDB to track. Fourth, it would require scum to know the signs of every living player to be a viable fake claim.

[Titus]

Aronis is not scumhunting or giving reasons for his reads. It's near impossible to get a wagon on him.

i) Why does scumAronis not give reasons for his reads? Doesn't that draw attention to yourself hard by doing that? Like, you want to say that "DVscum is better than that" which makes me want to say that "couldn't Aronisscum be better than that too"?
ii) It could be that some people have been saying that Aronis is TSO 2.0? Which I don't necessarily agree with entirely because I think TSO was at least more protown -.-

1) If town are excusing it because of meta, then there's no reason for him to give reasons. Notice how he started the day game giving reasons but sharply fell off when people started saying that's just town Aronis as he never gives reasons. His play reminds me of ika scum who says that scum have to be forced to post.

2) I agree.

@Singer, which is it? I respond to everything or I am not discussing the UT case enough? You are arguing out of both sides of your mouth again. Unless you intend to vote Gamma, discussing Gamma is a waste of time right now that we don't have, so I am not doing it.

[Titus]

i) It also makes it harder for PRs to do literally anything to him, which has clear scum utility as a role.
ii) We have two bulletproofclaims on the table. You really think three makes sense?
iii) It would give us conftown if 4nx outted Viktor?
Are you serious Titus?
You gave me shit about TTH being conftown for better reasons than that.
iv) He could have that actual role as scum? Why fakeclaim when if people detect and target him and get fails he's going to look suspicious?

1) yes, that's why neg utility. Millers cannot be cleared either and look guilty. Miller makes sense with PR numbers.
2) ongoing but yes. Mastina may back me up here.
3) tth just claiming to be the guy who we would unlock versus getting scum....
4) I don't think he has a Viktor cop as scum...he would already know Viktor. Also, why would the mod make a scum sign uncontrollable with a tracker and possible watcher in the game. Town it makes sense. We cannot play follow the cop with TTH parking on 4ity if the sign would be changing.

[Titus]

iii) You went on a huge tirade earlier this game about how "never conftown" despite however much evidence would indicate that would be the case.
Someone bussing Viktor is more likely 100% confirmed town than someone who's practically confirmed by the setup?
Like, I'm seriously having a hard time understanding how you're applying so many things inconsistently to this slot Titus.
I'm leaning that you're not scum with 4nx, but like, sometimes it's really hard to believe that you're actually going against tons of shit you've said earlier this game just to defend him.
iv) I agree about Viktor cop. That's also why I feel the claim is safe.
And oh I don't know maybe because of the no results mechanic in this game? 4nx can safely target people if townPRs detect him before because they'll use the wrong sign, get no result and then go "oh I guess he targeted no one".
Hardcore scum utility.

TTH is not confirmed by setup imo. Very likely town but I can see a town slot not wanting to one v one him.

Also 4ity would be conftown by play, namely giving us Viktor when the last thing scum would do here is bus. His claim is likely legit but his play and the play of others are why I will not vote him. Same with TTH. Likely but not conftown.

I am not disputing the neg utility. I think it's a balancer.

[Titus]

Who's the scumteam in your eyes, Titus?
Aronis, singer and _____ and _____?

Gamma and one highly townread person. Unsure who. I waffle on this slot.


Who do you think is scum?

[Titus]

Who is widely townread in your opinion Titus?

Almost everyone on the 4ity wagon, UT, and you.

[Titus]

So half the game could be scum

You think I like that state? No.

I am working backwards and saying who is not scum for the last one.

I doubt CDB, Mastina, TTH, FF, 4ity, are scum. I doubt FF is because Marquis. Cheetory's recent play makes me think town. You I feel the same way.

Yet the vilification of the mere thought of Bulba bring a scum driven wagon convinces me it had to be.

[Titus]

My current pool is something along the lines of 4nx, one of you/singer, 1-2 of Gamma/UT/CDB and Aronis/FF maybe?
Which isn't the best pool, but like, my issue is that I've got a lot of townreads atm.
Which means I'm either eating shit hard this game wrt my townreads or this game is going to boil down to PoE. I want to believe that the latter is the case, but I'm probably being idealistic and my list has too many easy names.
Bleh.
I wish it was D3 already.

Me too, which is why half of me says to no lynch and force scum to start picking maneuvers since lynching here does not gain us a day and I have seen too many games end by lynching wrong and fast in mylo.

[Titus]

Well minus the 4ity part.

[Titus]

Cheet, if Aronis is also scum, what do you think of the Anx wagon then?

I don't know why FF is concerned with my Vezok read. That is weird.

Have you considered that your gut is off and that's scum toying with your emotions to mislynch you after 4ity flips town?

Gut was why people voted Bulba too.

[Titus]

Cheetory, that's my issue. Too many people are not getting lynched. Scum can just pick off defenders and mislynch if we mislynch today?

Suppose 4ity is town, then what do you think of the wagons? What do you think of 4ity being a recycled Bulba wagon?

[Titus]

@gamma, Your first sentence only applies if 4ity gives us Viktor. He hasn't. So not conftown yet.

I can point to games where town rushed to judgement and lost. That's why we almost always no lynch in lylo.

I have already explained why 4ity's claim is good. I am just discredited.

What's the harm in waiting? No ate. Facts.

[Titus]

*no lynch in mylo. Damn autocorrect.

[Titus]

Have you considered that your gut is off and that's scum toying with your emotions to mislynch you after 4ity flips town?

If scum want to mislynch me after an Anxiety flip, go right ahead. I invite them to do that. I am at my most accurate when I am the one getting wagoned.

Alright, suppose 4ity is town, thoughts then?

[Titus]

Hara-kiri, Mortal Kombat style.

What does this even mean?

[Titus]

What's the harm in waiting? No ate. Facts.

The harm is not lynching scum. If you narrow down the lynchpool to not include weak PRs, then you destroy your ability to actually lynch scum before lategame. Mod Error finished, with GreyICE fakeclaiming and investigative role, and I think that with the logic you're presenting now you absolutely would have kept his claim alive as long as possible instead of lynching him.

Yes. I would have if the Bulba wagon repeated onto him. Yes flukes happen. My VCA can be fooled by three scum getting wagoned side by side.

9/10 though it is better to no lynch if it buys us more time. Given we have banes and boons up ahead, time is good.

[Titus]

I am so confident that 4ity is town that I will volunteer to be baned if we do not lynch him today.

[Titus]

I am Carvalos Tiedrich, the Priest (informed townie).

I was informed that there was a possibility of signs being changed but no details. I assumed this was how scum got around follow the cop and it would be their role blocker that could change signs. Yet a sign miller makes total sense too.

Flavor:

He knew getting so obsessive was bad but doing so was powerful. I couldn't shake thinking of evil.

The image of creation's leader fighting filled my mind, along with everyone else. I could feel evil consuming signs power playing tricks on our minds.

Yet inner thought can arrive at the truth through meditation and inward study. Slower, but now less powerful.

[Titus]

Any time I tried to press for more, I got that stupid face sign.

[Titus]

How does my role implicate 4ity? Not seeing that...

[Titus]

I detected n1 solely because of the ika connection. If ika had healed said target and they died, we would have i pendent verification of that. Since gif died, I traced. Unless I think someone changed and can prove it, detecting does not do much good imo.


Why do you think I held off Cheetory? The claim does not 100 percent clear 4ity and is likely to draw your ire.

[Titus]

It is not 100 percent clearing but 4ity having his sign change plus me knowing signs can change plus match with Bulba wagon, it all says do not touch. Is it possible 4ity is scum and scum can elect to change signs and scum elected to bus to form a solid pool that lynches wherever they want... But that is moon logicky.

Particularly when follow the cop is not viable.

[Titus]

Unless they role copped me, I don't see 4ity making the sign change part as a fake claim even then

[Titus]

#6268, I said it was possible but moon logicky.

[Titus]

Why would he not add that as part of his claim?
If people target him and get mismatched results with what they had detected or whatever then he would be screwed. Being open about what he is just makes it less possible for us to pin him down.

Why couldn't someone be bussing 4nx right now?

People would likely assume rolebblocker unless they redected as I would imagine most acts fail without sign match.

[Titus]

Why is it moonlogicky?

It's moon logicky because it is much simpler to not bus and doubt cast the Bulba wagon than trying to force and maintain a town block to get a mislynch through. That is unless scum are trying to protect a weaker member pushing both by bussing through to endgame.

Cheet, if you agree, let's agree to disagree on 4ity for today.

[Titus]

We no lynch and see what happens.

[Titus]

not sure. Three scenarios

Scum in fighting on who is more viable thus no fast lynch
Scum hoping to no lynch.
Scum trying to offer the weaker player to conftown a worse player.

[Titus]

What do you expect the game state to be if 4ity is town?

[Titus]

I would think Aronis is likely scum.
i) A scum would likely be on Aronis. Probably FF.
ii) A scum would be on 4nx. Probably Gamma.
iii) And then total variable on last scum. I have no idea who that would be.

that seems to mirror your current reads right? Just add in Singer scum.

[Titus]

Like, I want to say there's a scum between you and singer because that shit doesn't feel like townVtown at all.
So I guess that'd be iii)?

P-Edit: Then yell at Titus more about it? It feels a lot like you're just kind of handwaving instead of engaging her at all. Which doesn't feel town at all.

I wish there was a way 4ity could be tested.... But I keep coming up blank.

[Titus]

I'm not going to convince Titus. I'm very aware of this. I'm not going to waste my time and clutter up the thread even more by talking directly to her instead of the people I think will actually help lynch who I think is very likely scum for reasons I've gone over and over and over again.

And it's shit like this that triggers me because I hate being talked at with no one discussing my thoughts. I post more trying to get engagement, but get less and less.

[Titus]

What would testing solve?

I was meaning test his claim via action but I don't think there is.

[Titus]

i think i actually already said i don't remember much of what you did in DoA, the only thing that sticks out in memory was the vonflare neighbors thing and the insurance thing.

yeah do think they're both town.

Why do you think Singer's single minded obsession is town?

[Titus]

And I seriously do not get that. How is applying a series of known laws mind boggling? I think post game I am obligated to do a write up on how to think like Titus.

[Titus]

So you're saying I go too fast and I need to slow down my cognitive thinking. I had the meds to help with that but I can't take those atm as its verboten for those trying for kids.

[Titus]

Aronis is at L minus 2

[Titus]

I did. I already linked the game where our roles can be cracked. I linked VT (there was no informed townie in the offsite game) Ackerman was a VT. The game had a mechanic where we could pass messages but people could overdose. I also mentioned Ackerman was the closest match. Go check my conversation with CDB. You will also find Lichtmann was a doctor.

[Titus]

But if you want to lynch me, vote me or stop posturing and trying to paint everything I do as scummy.

[Titus]

@Singer, I love how you take me knowing VCA well and explaining it as if that makes me scummy.

@AD, Place a vote please.


@CDB, You will need to register to view this. Names translated by epilogue. I was Parker that game. I am not Parker here. Click me

The text of the game is scattered on the subforum. Really had to find unless you go looking and know where to look.

There you go.

[Titus]

Hi Lichtmann. I'm a sorta close relative to Ackerman. The closest you'll ever see here since no one can really be Ackerman again. That dude was a comedy legend.

GiF, don't sheep me yet. I have no thoughts worth sheeping yet and I'm lost. It would do better to actually look at my arguments in an intellectual debate.

There.

[Titus]

If Aronis is a PR I'm going to shit my pants

Me too.

[Titus]

@Singer, re-read my thoughts with UT. I liked the case mostly. Going in depth would cause a waste of time we did not have. If UT could not swing the votes, it would not happen. People want to hear less of me and someone always votes the exact opposite of what I express in thread.

[Titus]

it was super weird to me too that Titus was willing to lend a vote but not willing to lend a voice. I would like to hear elaboration on what I posted as well. For all four of my stated scumreads.

if Gamma flips scum then that looks suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper bad for Titus

Will do this tonight specifically. Seemed like you totally understood at the time.

[Titus]

I understand, but it's still pretty weird, esp if gamma flips scum

Wierd is my middle name in mafia. But I will be putting my thoughts on everyone, not just the four you mentioned.

[Titus]

That's L minus 1 on Aronis.

Try not to hammer for a couple hours as I have a work meeting and type up what people ask.

[Titus]

If he posts Cheetory, but he has passed prodding.

[Titus]

We still have a day and the wagons are both at like L-2/L-1.
I think we can manage with waiting a little while longer.

Put a deadline on it then IMO like I did with Bulba.

[Titus]

self-watcher is definitely a possible scum role

just saying

It's bullshit. He never once counterclaims TTH, even though TTH claimed he would be watcher if we unlocked him. So now Aronis is a self-watcher. Don't think so.

I have never targeted Aronis with an ability this game.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Aronis ISO post TTH claim

I see you already made the choice. :S

The creation-aligned player in question was me and the ability that would've been unlocked was a watch. I knew pre-game that the choice on Minor Day 2 involved the lock on the watch ability. I had assumed the choice would be between me and another town special being unlocked and that's why I said I would be confirmed.

Bane: Mastin

Boon CDB

VOTE: Espeonage

Espeonage and Titus are by far the best choices.

Alright.

VOTE: Titus

Shut the fuck up with this townbLoc nonsense

That shit is not useful or townmotivated

^^^^^

Why?

Also, why would you think Espy and I were scum together, despite Espy and I being at each other's throats most of the game? That just looks like reads of convience playing both sides so their happy.

We're both town btw.

Espeonage is scum for what happened yesterday at the end of the day. You're scum for playing antitown and don't even get me started about your mindless sheeping of ffery.

VOTE: Bulba

When I'm lynched and flip town, please fulfill my dying wish and lynch Titus. Thanks.

Aronis, what were your reasons for townreading TSO?

His early posts were super town. People wanted somebody to die and who better than a defenseless player with nobody attempting to stop his lynch.

I just wish someone would fucking cop Titus. That is all I wish for in this world.

ARONIS IS LITERALLY TSO 2.0 THIS TOWN HATES LURKERS

And loves the super over active Titus who is obvscum.

It's not that he doesn't post very much, it's that when he does post, it's

nothing

. Like, could somebody point me to anything that shows any amount of caring about the town? And then he shows up as soon as we wagon him after five days without saying anything?

Who said this is TSO-wagon 2.0?
Whoever that was hit the nail on the head.

No. TSO tried when under pressure. Aronis still refuses to. After TSO flipped town, town should be contributing, not lurksacking as lynching lurkers became a thing. Yet he is very likely cashing in on hesitation.

Tso tried and look what happened to him. He died anyway. So this is me not wasting my precious time only to end up dead.

I'm up for lynching whomever and whatever, I honestly don't care anymore. Maybe scumTitus will nightkill me and put me out of my misery. Or maybe she'll keep me alive to keep her miserable for the rest of the game. Who knows! It's a mystery!

Welcome to the club!

Okay, I've had enough depression for one night, I'll read 5450-70 the next time I think about joining a mafia game.

VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus
VOTE: Titus

I'm a town self-watcher of sorts.

@Gamma, You know that theory about weak investigative you claimed. This is it right here.

Adonis hands down loses in a battle with TTH if he counterclaims. The first thing he does is bane Mastina after his counterclaim.

Later to start the major day, he wants me or Espy. I ask him why. He never answers and suddenly I am his tunnel target to the end of the earth.

His hypothetical results could not have been we acted on him the prior minor night because Espy claimed to track me, and I claimed to track Singer. Unless Espy lies out of the blue to support a bus (even setting aside the fact I traced Singer) it's ludicrous.

Yet doctor, watcher, tracker are all taken.

[Titus]

Who wanted Mastina banned at the time Adonis naked baned Mastina... TTH.
So yes, I think this is transparent, save himself claim.

[Titus]

@Gamma, Are you seriously arguing Aronis thought two town watchers? Also did you not see where I proved through Espy's actions that Adonis must be lying.

[Titus]

CDB unvoted Oversoul.

[Titus]

considering that a self-watcher and a watcher-that-was-locked-and-is-actually-still-a-vt-because-game-mechanics are two very different roles, I don't see why not.

And no, because aronis hasn't said anything about his results yet that I see that he could actually be lying about. What is the thing that he's lying about?

tbf cdb is right about aronis not actually claiming his results in his claim being bad but let's stick with the learning exersize here for a bit.

Watcher is Watcher is watcher. That's a stretch and you know it Gamma.

Let's track his actions for a moment. He naked pushes me and Espy saying we're the best choices. Given that's the only thing he's saying at the start of Major Day 2, logical thing (given his claim) is that he's implying a guilty on us.

Yet, later Espy claims to have traced me. Not a word from Aronis. Not a word. Instead, he continues to tunnel me. If Espy's selections were indeed based on his results (namely watching himself), that implies that Espy and I both visited him. However, unless Espy lied OUT OF THE BLUE. Then, Aronis's vote pattern CANNOT be the result of him self-watching. If Aronis result is Not based on his actions, then what is it based on?

Nothing. He's guilty.

[Titus]

wow titus I'm so glad you have time to argue this setup speculation nonsense with one of your stated scumreads but don't have time to actually argue for lynching that scumread

really warms my heart

Aronis I can get lynched. Gamma I can't. If Gamma busses or tries to persuasively to convince me he's town he should have that opportunity. I gave you an opportunity, it's only fair that I give him one. One of the major complaints against me is that I'm a tunneller. Is it likely he'll convince me? No. I thought the same about you though.

[Titus]

I'm getting to work on my read wall now.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Read Wall, Short Version off the Cuff

4nxi3ty. (Deasvail.) - Been done in detail. Wagon matches Bulba's too much. Claim matches my informed townie status (which Goo is right doesn't clear him but that is just an additional indicator to me). Traces make sense as Viktor clears. Confident enough to not lynch 4ity.
Actiondan. - I wish he'd post more, so I hesitate to call him town. Yet, gun to my head, town.
Aronis. - Scum, faked self-watcher horribly.
ChannelDelibird. - Tracker most likely. I have minor doubts, namely that he didn't think of follow the cop and fight off his own boon. Still he's in no touchy category with 4ity. Goo's analysis is right on in that I don't clear 4ity it's just the wagon, plus 4ity's actions that clear him IMO. But from a pure theoretical perspective Goo is right.
Cheetory6. - More likely than not town. I have nagging moments of paranoia (hint they're when we go back and forth and I feel Cheetory is stating/believing something untrue).
Espeonage. - It's been 24 hours since his promised wall catchup, not a fan. He traced me. Suspicion or blocking Singer. If we were looking for scum OFF the Bulba wagon, my gut says Espy. 6057 is what the ever loving fuck.
Formerfish. (Marquis.) - Town based on Marquis's posting. I like what FF says when he's here, plus his push on AD. I'd like to see him flesh that out more tomorrow.
Gammagooey. - Ugh. I thought the push on UT was really town, but that's when I agreed with Gamma that UT was scum. Given UT looks town, Gamma's push looks worse in hindsight. Plus his reluctance to even discuss scum pushing Bulbazak makes me not feel good about him. I like his attempts to make me a better player, but I'm not sure how alignment indicative that is. Gamma's been real set here. Really like 6501. I'm not the only one who didn't see total tone town in Espy.
Mastin2 - Obvtown Doctor, but jeezus honey get in here. I can't do this on my own.
Oversoul. (Tammy.) - Tammy looked pretty town. I was waffling a bit mentally on Oversoul because of her behavior post Bulba lynch, but she's come around.
Shadoweh. - Townblocks R US. No touchy without a strong case. I think her insistance on Aronis is very town motivated.
singersigner. (Empire.) (Zar.) - I think Singer and I have said enough about each other.
TellTaleHeart. (Antihero.) - Prob town since claim.
Titus. - The confusiest town to ever town. Informed townie.
Untrod Tripod. - Probably Alquin. His interactions when he actually started explaining things to me were much better. Particularly 6501. I like where he lays out the Gamma thought process in the post. It's snarky but what can I say, I like the snark. 6060 is comedic gold. The wagon falling apart on UT after I unvoted also makes it look like a scum wagon.
Vezokpiraka - It's crunch time. Why do I still not have strong feelings about Vezok?

That's the short version. I'll do more later tonight.

[Titus]

That is unless we hammer.

[Titus]

@UT, You just put Aronis at L-3. They are coming.

Okie, dokie. Is there anything specific you want me to focus on or just more of everything? If it's more of everything, it'll be spoilered.

P-edit: Yes. Thanks CDB.

Aronis at L-2.

[Titus]

UT, What do you want me to elaborate more on? I'm not posting for the sake of posting.

[Titus]

Alright. I'll go PBPA on those.

[Titus]

Spoiler: UT Quotes minus Shadoweh (she's getting her own post bc this is too long to see on my screen as I type

what's the point? are you actually going to follow my reads?

it kind of seems like you're dead set on mislynching me, so I have no real reason to assume it will affect your play at all. but what the hell I'll go ahead and post shit anyway

I think Gamma is smart enough and good enough at reading me to know that my play was based on having drawn a major power role, so him trying to make a behavioral case on me is bananas. I've been vibing pretty hard that I was sitting on a trump card. the fact that YOU did not pick up on this did not surprise me because afaik you don't really do behavior for reads? also gamma's over the top theatrical reaction to me scumreading him screams scum to me. I have no reason to believe that town gamma would do anything other than shrug at it. THEREFORE I think gamma picked up on my status as a major power role and has just been push push pushing at it because he wants to get the town power role lynched. his reaction to my earlier attempts to posse up are weird to me because the reaction I have come to expect from gamma would have been "let's do it. this game is bananas and full of thick dumbdumbs, so let's try to make shit happen". Him pushing me away reads as scum to me because he already has his partners to swing votes around with and wants to avoid being seen as buddying me.

I think CDB's opportunistic hops have been scummy as shit. his entire play this game looks like lurkscum and opportunistic scum.

as far as Oversoul goes, you provided a really solid argument for why his reactions to my claim were town-motivated but I really am just going to go with my gut on this one. his fakeclaims look like he wanted to try to 1 for 1 himself because he figured it would help his faction to get me lynched today, but then either his buddies set him straight or he realized he had severely fucked up. it just looks like throwing mist and scum theater to me. you can disagree with me, but there it is.

I think singer is an oooooooookay bet for a whiteknighting scum, but that's mostly based on the fact that I was already scumreading her slot because of the replacement shenanigans and Empire's posting.


____________________________

I literally don't see any town motivated reason to lynch me today, even if you don't buy my claim. if I'm still alive after tonight then GO AHEAD AND DO IT, but scum would be severely misplaying by not killing me tonight so I think that's an okay thing to try to play around

Reck wants me to pass on that he agrees with me on the gamma scumread and offers the following quotes from a recently completed game where gamma argued against the exact tactics that he's using this game

some selections

917: "have fun yelling at people and hunting for PRs by goading people into responding to you until you flip"

1320: "Reck is a friend in real life. And although there are occasions where we're both in a game and it's more fun and better because of it, more often than not I don't actually like playing with him because he tends to make the game an angry, yelling clusterfuck when it's completely unnecessary.

I play this game to try to figure shit out and I despise when people turn it into a hate-filled "I'm better than you" screaming match instead of trying to understand the other player's positions and why they might have them

. I'm expecting at the end of the game reck will come in and say that he did it because that's what people expect him to do as town and that using all that AtE might have let him survive for another day but I hate that he feels he has to do that and be

insulting and incredulous and angry and make the game so much worse to actually play in instead of slowing down and being more self-aware of how his play looked to other people

, EVEN with him being scum here.

I'm not going to say that makes me obvtown or any other dickwaving bullshit like that. But look back at my play with the true assumption that

I hate it when people play like reck did on day 3

, and look at the reads I've got and whether or not you think those are faked."

I'm kind of opposed to metagaming, but I wanted to pass on that reck had that to say

fwiw Reck and Quilford disagree with my Oversoul scumread

Thinking UT is scum for being generally aggressive and catty is super dumb because that is just UT as a person

Here, Gamma says he has meta on me that explains my demeanor does not come from a scum position, it's just how I am!

UT still looks pretty genuine IMO and I think he'd be pushing people harder as scum here instead of just commenting about a lot of things

Here, Gamma says my lack of effort and no hard pushes is likely to come from town-UT!

my read on UT is a lot weaker but I see where he's coming from in pretty much all of his posts, especially where he's irritated with Titus's playstyle. I just see similar thought processes to the ones I've had and I think those are more likely to be coming from town.

Here, Gamma still says I am town due to my stance on Titus, which Gamma agrees with!

I am not talking about you and your 400 posts of splattered words about everything that has happened in the entire game

this is me trying to get the people that are voting esp for ?????, which includes UT and mastin and if my memory is correct CDB, to re-evaluate what the hell they're doing and why.

this is the laziest fucking garbage.
what's your opinion on singer's play and let's say cheetory and GuyInFreezer's too

gamma plz

no.

it's absolute garbage. I know this game is a shitshow to read through and evaluate, but TRY to read through the other players and actually hunt for scum instead of lazily hopping on esp's wagon when I don't see any reason why his ACTUAL PLAY IN THIS GAME, not token bullshit and not floaty gambit possibilities, is more likely coming from a scum mindset than a town one.

Suddenly, Gamma's stance on me goes from "this is typical UT town stuff" and transitions into "I AM SO ANGRY YOU'RE NOT PUTTING IN EFFORT, GOING TO SINGLE YOU OUT"

oh ffs.

never mind.

GAMMA I think UT would be a better vote than CDB.

siiiigh

why

"Well pull my arm, why don't ya!"

I wanted to be ACTUALLY cheeky about something in this game to try to make scum's minor night choices less predictable but don't bane UT because I fully intend to help kill him tomorrow. I've kept seeing little genuine things from him over and over like with mastin and his forgetting ffery and his general frustration at the game but none of them are actually scumhunting, and none of them are things that he wouldn't or couldn't actually feel and believe as scum.

Suddenly, my hands-off playstyle and lack of pushing hard reads is a huge problem! Note that up until this point, Gamma has failed to show progression on his read on me. It was just "meta says town, meta says town, hey ffery why should I vote UT, I INTEND TO KILL UT WITH VOTES NOW". There's no substance to his progression.

@TTH, can we bane UT, then lynch Vezok or Cheetory. We have to get through the bane to get you your boon.

UT is a scapegoat, I suspect mostly because he's a smart ass.

as miserable as this game's first two days have been, UT is a good player. Look at Reckoning 3 if you want to go into meta bullshit.

UT hasn't actually tried to find scum this game. not at all. He would absolutely resort to just murdering generally scummy people at deadline but he hasn't been trying to push anything himself at all, he's been asking me bullshit about whether I'm scum instead of actually trying to read me, and all of his mastin and titus bullshit is completely genuine but posting about player's being shitty and arrogant and insufferable is not something that only comes from town UT.

Now suddenly, Gamma acts like my "are you scum" act is

sooo foreign

and scummy. When, in fact, if he was being true to what he knows of me and has experienced with me, he'd know that's pretty par for the course.

And, the second bit admits that Gamma knows I an genuine in my frustration with players... it makes it NULL at worst, yet Gamma casts it in a scummy light here and groups it in with a "case" on me.

Also CHEETORY DO YOU WANT UT LYNCHED? IF SO DO SOMETHING ELSE WITH YOUR BANE GODAMN.

Here UT,

have a vote

VOTE: UT

(also you may include a gif for this if you so please)

do you want UT dead tomorrow

yes or no

eh

thats fine then

but seriously I am going to be pushing real hard to make UT dead and there are actually other people that will also make that happen.

Suddenly, now, Gamma is living and breathing and eating and shitting this UT lynch! He has CONVICTION! He completely believes I am scum and this fervor and passion is 100% real and based on shit in the game is not at all conjured up from a phony trajectory where he has to do backflips to get out of his meta town read on me. YEP!

This is me reminding everyone that UT still hasn't come up with anything about why my posts were scummy after bullshitting that I looked bad for voting him

Also that CDB's very right about his tone being off

Both scum and town UT tend to be a pretty content light, at least early on

but town UT is biting and witty and giving people shit for being bad players

while

attacking people and pursuing his reads

whereas UT here is being bitchy and giving people shit as a filler to take the place of actual thoughts and content.

(citation needed)

This distinction that Gamma uses to justify his bullshit push on me is based on pure fiction. It's a murky distinction at best, one that has been conjured up as justification for Gamma to continue his push once he sensed blood in the water. It's not genuine.

Also UT is still obvscum.
No, seriously. I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push. His attack on me was HORRIFICALLY bad, was and is completely unsupported, and is blatantly more likely to be coming from a scum mindset of 'say gamma could be scum but maybe isn't and is just dumb to discredit him' instead of a town one of actually weighing/considering my pushes on singer and CDB, or literally anything else I've done in the game or any feelings he had about my previous posts and taking that into account and mentioning what was bad about them while saying I'm scum.

I don't fuck around with false confidence bullshit like tons of people will with every read they push

Okay.
Tell me what is potentially different between here and with elusive in DoA then? How absolutely confident are you that UT isn't just being a shitter as town?

I've played with UT a pretty decent amount before.

Also, using elusive is fair in this context because I was about as confident as I am now about UT but elusive WAS really really reactive and manipulative in how she reponded to people >.>
I do want to point out that throughout all my pushing on singer and CDB here which I've done a TON of I'm pretty sure I never called them obvscum or said that I was absolutely sure that they were scum. Go through UT's iso and take a look at all the mentions of me. He isn't trying to read me.

Funny! Gamma is angry I am pushing him without reasons and isn't engaging in case posting and posturing... huh. Gamma has been a champion of "get lynched scumbag" in the past without posting big cases and reasons, but NOW, when I do it, suddenly it's a huge fucking problem and it makes me scum?

also, I'm Alquin

suck it

let's actually vote for some scums now

WHAT PART OF THIS DOESN'T FUCKING SCREAM OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM CLAIMING TO YOU

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

Nothing about the claim actually screams opportunistic scum claim? Sure, you could just say that, you could also say this claim is frustrated town who is tired of being wagoned, you could also say the only person who would claim this way is President Barack Obama, you could also say... anything, really, as long as you say it in all caps and curse a lot! Because THAT justifies your empty, bullshit read and lets you rabble at people.

At this point forward, it's just Gamma screaming about me being scum. Keep in mind that Reck pointed out some meta on Gamma, from their last game together, where Gamma waxed poetic about how browbeating people with yelling was bad play and how he HATED people who did that, including Reck. Now, here, Gamma is using those same tactics he supposedly HATES as town... why? Because he has to sell his bullshit stance on me that has no grounding in reality. He uses fferyllt as a way to begin the stance swap. And since there's no substance behind it other than ABSOLUTELY BULLSHIT META GAMMA PULLED OUT OF HIS ASS, he has to sell it some other way -- by yelling and screaming and using those tactics he supposedly loathes so much.

"clearly and obviously", "clearly", "obviously", "obvscum", placing the burden of proof on people to prove I am town rather than on himself to sell why I am scum

Gamma has locked himself into a convenient ragetunnel that will allow him to coast by and just YELL IN CAPITAL LETTERS AT MOTHERFUCKERS and damn he will look SO CONVICTED. In fact, when I flip Alquin, his conviction and passion will allow Gamma to pretend to remain justified in his read on me. "I don't even regret that, UT was playing so bad", or something to that effect, is likely to pop out of his mouth after I am dead and confirmed as the most valuable motherfucking town role in the game.

Fucking kill this.

CAUSE BABY YOU'RE A FIREWORK

VOTE GAMMA

COME ON SHOW EM WHAT YOU'RE WORTH

VOTE GAMMA

MAKE EM GO AHH

VOTE GAMMA

AHH

VOTE GAMMA

AHH

VOTE GAMMA

AS YOU SHOOT ACROSS THE SKY

VOTE GAMMA

EYE

VOTE GAMMA

EYE

VOTE GAMMA

I'm ALSO not a huge fan of how vezok is shamelessly whiteknighting me

I'm not going to step out here and say "hey guys I've been so useful"

I think it's SMART to be wary of me

the way he's trying to be like it's okay UT we're the only ones who get it! was intended to set him up as being able to say he opposed my seemingly-inevitable lynch

reminder that UT is scum

HEY SO THAT'S NOT A RESPONSE THAT'S JUST CDB STILL BEING SCUM NOT KNOWING HOW TO RESPOND TO A GOOD CASE AND JUST SAYING LALALALA

tonight there'll almost definitely be two kills tonight given Viktor's sign ability and scum detects unless mastin or some other protective role does things. If I'm dead, this is what I give a shit about.

ABSOLUTELY town, stop trying to lynch them, seriously read over what they've been doing and when and they're obvious godamn town

Oversoul
vezok
TTH (just for the lock claim but still obvobvtown)

Like really probably town, still really likely town mindset

Espeonage

Likely town, but read over them yourself and don't let them get away with horseshit lategame

singer
cheetory

obvscum

UT

The person I'd really, really, really like to see lynched tomorrow that isn't UT

Shadoweh

Fucking kill her eventually for being unreadable maybescum and being enormously detrimental to the game

Titus

Not confident enough to them put on other lists, read them and figure them out yourself

everyone else

allow me to translate:
- let's call two townies and a scumbuddy town and hopefully people won't notice. whiteknighting ho!
- gotta keep defending the guy I was screaming about defending earlier even though nothing points to a town mindset
- here are two people I want to patronize by calling town but also absolve myself of responsibility when one of them flips scum (reck thinks cheet, I think singer is more likely)
- let me keep up my ragetunnel on UT for appearances
- setting up the post-UT bus
- policy lynch on Titus, an easy player to want to lynch because of the postcount and post style with built in support from a few people
- I'm too lazy to pretend to have opinions about anything else

yes ut keep on saying that everyone that is scumreading you is scum

it feeds us

Oh look, here's gamma trying to not get individually singled out after I flip town because I'm scumreading "everyone" (when in actually it's what, two people?) who has scumread me.

that soft discredit because "UT just omgus'd at people"

IS ANYONE ELSE FUCKING READING THIS SHIT???

already said that i thought you were town early game because you seemed to be acting genuinely about several things, its just that none of those things were actually scumhunting and trying to find scum.

so you townread me early game because I was being genuine, even though I wasn't scumhunting

now, you're scumreading me because I am still being genuine, but I'm not scumhunting

is that about right?

So I've skimmed. And I am pretty sure that Anx is some form of SK cop potentially, or a rolecop for scum. The only reason to go after someone who you are townreading like he was is if you have issues with some part of their play or circumstantial stuffs.

I have been lurking, but had town motivations. That is a recipe for SK truth be told. If he is town he might still have this kind of power. But on the flipside, scum usually have more SK killing support.

Two out of three ain't bad. My vote sticks.

ARE YOU MOTHERFUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS SHIT

AN FBI AGENT

IN A GAME WITH NO THIRD PARTIES

AND THE SCUM ROLE HE'S CLAIMING TO TARGET IS A GUARANTEED ROLE FROM MOD INFORMATION IN THE RULES POST

ARE YOU

FUCKING

JOKING

UT your Gamma points are duly noted

my points are duly noted?

what does that even mean? what points? WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON WHAT I'VE POSTED

USE YOUR WORDS

COULD YOU HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN YOUR USELESS DEATHTUNNEL ON TITUS PLEASE

and maybe a little less pretended that you are the goddamn arbiter of wagons

The fact that UT has made big cases on not only Gamma but Shadoweh does give me pause - I need to read them both fully and talk to my team about them (think I may have been the only one to see it so far) but I suspect much will depend on whether or not he flips overnight. At any rate, I'm confident that I won't be moving to a Gamma lynch or anything like that Today.

Gamma, as I've already indicated, the claim is sketchy and the Goo has questions about it. Given that we have time, though, I'm letting 4nx talk more about it before I move my vote, but I suspect that I will.

"I haven't read it, but I know I'm going to disagree on gamma!"

#5237, There's a reason why I asked you to flesh this out. It looks largely OMGUS here. The CDB read is meh. We're all being a little opportunistic. I'm not voting Singer ATM because I know she's not getting lynched. Lurking is not exactly a high thing in this environment considering we still have 16 alive.

#6029 is precisely why I don't like meta unless it's based on personality. It looks like Gamma is going deeper here with his read. If his read was based on pure opportunism, I'd expect him to stop pushing when it was clear UT was not getting lynched. Yet, that's not his response. The trajectory is far from consistent however. Given the push I've had for people to back away from meta, I am reluctant to jump to scum at the first pass. Yet, the back and forth is far from smooth, so at this point I was seeing WHY you thought Gamma was scum, but not ready to jump on myself.

#6035 Pop and Run seems to be Vezok's thing. Not a fan. Harder to get a read on him when he does that. I like he's willing to vote Aronis though over the bullshit push possibly. Vezok would be an excellent track if I thought CDB has any actual possibility of getting a trace.

#6041 Tells me you're utterly convinced CDB is scum provided you are town, but no mention of why. So *shrug*.

#6501, Mentioned in my last wall. This post made me click with Gamma scum here.

#6502 really drives home Gamma scum, as scum love to make more aggrandizing posts.

#6060 was quoted because I had the same WTF moment, synergy, fake reach for towncred or Espy doesn't give two fucks.

#6062, Hint: Singer's scum and doesn't want to discuss anything but me.

#6094 I generally find that attitude consistent with town. Being open and honest about biases is generally town motivated. So while I don't like CDB not wanting to follow the Gamma read or discuss it, I'm not so far as CDB is scum for said refusal.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Shadoweh Analysis

I don't get it. Is this because I said Aronis's wagon didn't have much of a chance, mostly because of the complete lack of interest every time I pointed at him before? It's like you're all affected by reverse psychology when it comes to my votes.

##Vote: Aronis

Singer please calm down. The most irritating players are the ones least likely to be scum.

reck wants me to say that this vote is scummy as FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

vote bulbasak

however, that being said

Oversoul. Titus. singer. CDB.

truce? no one in this collection (I'm including myself) is gonna get lynched today. we need to homer in this Bulba lynch and move on to the next thing.

Shadoweh is the lynch I think we should pursue next

Shadoweh has been lurking on the fringes of the game trying to stroke all the right egos and not get noticed.

shit is scum.

and we should lynch it.

yeah I'll admit it's a low-impact-player lynch

but that post by Shadoweh I quoted originally is SUCH a just-actin-casual scumpost

I think it's a great place to start

There aren't enough people voting me to have a composition. I'm more interested in looking at what's different between Bulbazak and TSO. I understand what singer means about townreading the entire wagon, because vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, Gammagooey, Untrod Tripod, ChannelDelibird and singersigner were on both. With the addition of Oversoul and TTH to that, the only person on Bulba I was originally suspicious of is Aronis. It doesn't make sense though. The chances that there was only one lurkscum on a pushed-through wagon is unlikely.

I think I might be one of the only people who remembers this is a team game and we have to work together to win and stop making idiot-headed moves and brush them off with 'that claim would have totally not been listened to anyways'. Singer. This is a very hard game to make friends in. >_> Buddying is my game though. I decide who's on my side and try to work with them to lynch the right people.

I have no idea who the scumteam is. This list is baffling. I can't put anything together without more flips. I am also fairly sure I'm not the only one. I've decided who the likeliest one is out of my pool of low-end suspects, the next step will follow after that.

##Vote: Aronis.

I'm still willing to vote Formerfish or Anx I guess since he's DV. I'm interested who vezok thinks is scum now that Bulba dudded out. Incidentally, my team hasn't been giving me anything lately, Grey's been absent enough to get prodded elsewhere and LLD isn't really engaged in anything.

also this post was super scummy LET'S BREAK IT DOWN

There aren't enough people voting me to have a composition. I'm more interested in looking at what's different between Bulbazak and TSO. I understand what singer means about townreading the entire wagon, because vezokpiraka, Cheetory6, Gammagooey, Untrod Tripod, ChannelDelibird and singersigner were on both. With the addition of Oversoul and TTH to that, the only person on Bulba I was originally suspicious of is Aronis. It doesn't make sense though. The chances that there was only one lurkscum on a pushed-through wagon is unlikely.

this post strokes the ego of all of the major personalities in the game and tries to lay down some groundwork for buddying later

I think I might be one of the only people who remembers this is a team game and we have to work together to win and stop making idiot-headed moves and brush them off with 'that claim would have totally not been listened to anyways'. Singer. This is a very hard game to make friends in. >_> Buddying is my game though. I decide who's on my side and try to work with them to lynch the right people.

YEAH BABY

STROKE THAT EGO

seriously she's literally just saying she's buddying and trying to get people to "work together"

working together in this game has so far just lead to two mislynches from that "town group" so of course scum would be interested in keeping the good feelings going

I have no idea who the scumteam is. This list is baffling. I can't put anything together without more flips. I am also fairly sure I'm not the only one. I've decided who the likeliest one is out of my pool of low-end suspects, the next step will follow after that.

I have no idea who to scumread so I guess I'll just set myself to push some or all of the major low-impact-player-wagons!

##Vote: Aronis.

I'm still willing to vote Formerfish or Anx I guess since he's DV. I'm interested who vezok thinks is scum now that Bulba dudded out. Incidentally, my team hasn't been giving me anything lately, Grey's been absent enough to get prodded elsewhere and LLD isn't really engaged in a

aaaaaaaaand boom goes the dynamite

this is such a "just actin' casual" scumpost. she ruffles as few feathers as possible while stroking everyone's ego and jumping on a popular wagon LITERALLY WITH NO REASON GIVEN

this could die too

Ok, here's what I got from you about Shadoweh. Nothing spectacular here. You're harping over one post. If you're right, we should see that pattern, throughout the game. Yet, I'm not seeing it. I don't see a case. I see you harping over one post as if there was a scumslip there.

[Titus]

Yes, we will. If there's something more to Shadoweh, I'm opening to discuss it. I just don't see it. If you don't have any further questions, please revote Aronis so this day can fucking end.

[Titus]

looking forward to playing other games with you all that are less awful (in gamestate, not design, in case that wasn't clear)

Me too.

Tomorrow, we lynch Singer for being such an obstructionist on not lynching scum.

[Titus]

*on = and

[Titus]

here's to hoping

Vote: Aronis

Thank you.

[Titus]

@UT, I'll consider it, but I want your thoughts on Singer. You've never really provided them. I'll admit it is possible that I'm just pissed off at her never-ending bullshit and wanting her to be scum. She is actually scum though. I feel it in my bones.

[Titus]

Ffs. This whole town-apathy until deadline thing is unreal. That plays right into scum's hands! They

want

town to be so disjointed and scramble for a lynch at the end of the day because chances are it'll be on town and then wagon analysis is shit, VCA is inaccurate (but I suppose that plays into scumTitus' hand so she doesn't have to provice something accurate).

The whole "there has to be scum on Bulb" argument is bullshit, Titus should know that, but she's blindly just saying what your average-joe townie would think to play right into your comfort zone and keep edging town toward making the slightly less optimal choices because MOON LOGICK TRAIN.

Geezes, you'd better hope there's some sort of godfather immune IC-cop innocent on you tomorrow...

Ooh your buddies can't help you out...

See I can do this sarcastic bullshit too.

[Titus]

i hereby declare the remaining part of the day fun dicking around time to preserve what little is left of fun and sanity in our miserable existances

I can't tell if I'd be happier at Aronis flipping scum or him flipping town and this being closer to being over.

nah he'll flip neither

he will flip SK cop like espy said, causing all the lynched players in all the games to get sucked into a void and play a second mod error mafia that slowly turns into disjointed pictures of tigers and jpeg artifacts

it'll be fine

ROTFL Hilarious!

[Titus]

Unmake. Match Sign on target player to kill them. Annihilation may submit up to three Unmakes per Major Night. This is a Factional ability.

Pretty sure signs matter UT.

[Titus]

*Cheetory, god this fucking cold.