Newbie 1876 - Game Over!

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VOTE: nonny for voting for me.

[2 718281828459]

Yeah, so

Code: Select all

[vote]person1[/vote]

will do
VOTE: person1

Similarly the

Code: Select all

[unvote]person1[/unvote]

will do UNVOTE: person1. Sometimes we just do UNVOTE: so it is not confused for a vote.

---

I would like to make it clear that I still VOTE: nonny.

[2 718281828459]

Yeah, so

Code: Select all

[vote]person1[/vote]

will do
VOTE: person1

Similarly the

Code: Select all

[unvote]person1[/unvote]

will do UNVOTE: person1. Sometimes we just do UNVOTE: so it is not confused for a vote.

---

I would like to make it clear that I still VOTE: nonny.

Why are you making sure that we know you are still randomly voting someone?

Because I was also using a whole bunch of unvote and vote tags, and I wanted to clear any misconceptions in the vote count by a mod who make merely skim for vote tags.

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OK, so...

All right. We have friction between nonny and Formerfish. I want to scumread nonny except that it is reminding me of my last game (1872, especially in day 3).
However this is NOT day 3, this is day 1.

I still want to keep my vote on nonny. This could be a mislynch, but we can afford 2 mislynches, so...

Would you like to defend yourself or claim a power role?

[2 718281828459]

Hmmm...

OK, I messed up on the protocol regarding defense and claim. (I think there are a bit too many of these "soft protocols", but that is for another time.)
I seem to have a problem with getting across my intent here (similar things happened last game).

Let me rephrase my post to possibly better match what I actually

MEANT

to communicate.

---

OK, so...

All right. We have friction between nonny and Formerfish. I want to scumread nonny except that it is reminding me of my last game (1872, especially in day 3).
However this is NOT day 3, this is day 1.

I still want to keep my vote on nonny. I mean, you cannot be sure of anything right now, but day 1 is always hard to get a correct lynch on. But nonny is my prime suspect for right now.

(Not as much any more.)

How do you defend yourself?

(I see the defense, and understand a bit better now. I definitely see how the PR thing was wrong of me to do.)

---

Moving forward... UNVOTE: for now just because I want to step back for a while and analyze the situation. It is hard to say "day 1 is always tough for me" after so little experience but I also know that lurking (the most obvious way around this kind of difficulty) is also a scum read.

Are we out of random vote stage yet?

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(I want to mention that I made post 57 without knowledge of 55 and 56. I skipped the "other posts were written" part, but decided after submitting that it may be better to let you guys know the context of 57.)

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No, no. I get that part, my question is why you are so concerned about an RVS vote being counted correctly?

Because it could make the bandwagons harder to count? (Remember that nonny had 3 votes at one point...) Well, I later un-voted.

---

Friction is fine, and just because there is friction doesn't make one of us scum.

I know that friction =/> scum, and I wrote that albeit indirectly.

You voted nonny as an rvs vote, but now it seems like you are making it a legit one, why? And if you really think it might be a mislynch, why keep it there? Yes we get a few built into the game, but do you really want to potentially use one on day 1 from something you think you gleaned from like a 4 post back and forth?

I wrote a second post (57) that softens 49 quite a bit. 49 was just a failure to communicate combined with a slip of protocol.

And the whole "defend yourself or claim a PR" is just disgusting and reeks of role fishing, especially when its said this early on, and without much steam behind the wagon.

My bad, just forgot about the protocol there. Again, see post 57.

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I want to wait and see how the replacement acts before doing anything else here, unless something major happens among the other 8 of us.

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I guess I will break from my plan (of not doing anything until the replacement posts) because I was asked a direct question.

So far who pings you as scum?

I mean... I still have a little bit of lean on nonny = Scum, although not as strongly as before.
I also lean slightly towards Formerfish = Scum and Guerilla = Town, but those are intuition, not based on anything concrete.
(Fish because 72 repeats attacks on my post 49 even though I wrote 57 before Fish wrote 72... but this could just be not even seeing 57.)
I still want to hear from Kitty64's replacement.
No one else stands out.

UNVOTE: , because doing a random vote at this point seems like Incorrect Protocol.

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I wish that there was a designated person who had an IC-like role but was not playing, therefore you could ask questions that might reveal your role ("So I found 2 townies as Cop, should I reveal now or later?" or "Should I, as scum, pretend to be a Tracker to try and win this LyLo?") without compromising the game.

---

Guerilla: I have little to go on, but so far I just have liked a more calm and inquisitive tone. Again, this is not strong enough to say "let's lynch anyone who votes for Guerilla" but I was asked for reads and I gave my best guesses.

[2 718281828459]

Unofficial vote count

TrinityNZ (0) -
GuerillaWoo (0) -
2 718281828459 (3) - nonny, IcemanCh, Formerfish
Skygazer (0) -
IcemanCh (1) - Skygazer
nonny (2) - brassherald, GuerillaWoo
Formerfish (0) -
brassherald (3) - TrinityNZ, Bins, 2.718
Bins (0) -

I am going to follow Bins's advice and also VOTE: brassherald, who is now 2 away from a lynch.

Skygazer's vote seems unwarranted but then again that is what all early day 1 votes are. Currently skygazer and IcemanCh are neutral to me.

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Hello all, thank you for what I can only assume will be a very warm welcome.

I mean... I still have a little bit of lean on nonny = Scum, although not as strongly as before..

Why is that?

Not sure anymore. I think it was something involving earlier posts and a mood of defensiveness.

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I may be losing a grasp of my Numbers townread.

Um, I thought we were supposed to pressure people by voting for them?

To everyone else, it's always good to be using your vote. Pressuring people with a vote may be the only way you can get a proper read on them.
VOTE: brassherald

Is there a reason why adding more pressure to the player

you

voted for (within reason, but I doubt two scum would instantly jump on this wagon unless they were suicidal) causes you to lose the townread?

Or am I misinterpreting something?

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What I wrote...

(within reason, but I doubt two scum would instantly jump on this wagon unless they were suicidal) causes you to lose the townread?

OK, so brass says this is a slip...

1. I was being hypothetical there; I did not "know" whether brass was town or not.
2. If brass
   were
   scum, then it would still be suicidal because the scum team would have just lynched their own for no apparent reason.
3. But really, I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC.
4. @Brassherald: Are you actually scum reading me, or are you just trying to pressure me by putting me at L-1? (Genuine question.)

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You didn't respond to his point at all.

Uh, I thought I did. What specifically did I not respond to?

Ok so I thought I had replied to this earlier but the post had disappeared - any ideas on what might have happened? I can write it out again but would prefer to find it if it’s gone somewhere strange. I tried looking for all my posts but can’t get that to work either...

Just write it again.
Did you know that if someone else posts right before you, then your post is held back and you can review their post and make a change? That might have something to do with it.

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Nvm I misread what he thought the slip was. Still, saying the reason you put someone at L-2 is cuz you didn't think the scumteam would hammer is very slip-like and there's some circular reasoning going on there that's evidently not a real explanation. Are you still voting for brass? Who are your scumreads?

I have had a hard time getting scum reads, but I still think brass may have jumped a bit

too

quickly on me... so I am keeping my VOTE: brassherald. Day 1 scum reads are already hard; when you have 4 people voting for you it gets even harder.

Like, you just created this weird logical maze rationalizing away your own assumption that you were being scumread for putting someone at L-2. That's diversionary. There's the underlying appeal to being new: "I do not understand why I'm being scumread, is it cuz I did the thing someone else did??". Then there's the reason for the vote in the first place. Bins says you can pressure players with votes and then you announce your vote is only a pressure attempt. You instantly deflated that pressure.

Ok, that makes sense. Of course, now I think I can get out the air pump again because my best hunch is actually brass = scum.

Then there's asking whether Brass' vote on you is genuine, like you're trying to gauge whether you should be concerned but in an underhanded way trying to delegitimize said vote.

That was because I was considering that vote to be scum-like, but I wondered if it was just a townie trying to get information. Big difference.

It's odd behavior and there's this underlying need to avoid blame here. That's what it all amounts to. Preemptive avoidance coupled with active avoidance.

It's simple. Do you want brass lynched or not? Why or why not?

"Do you want brass lynched" well, I mean, if I were forced, right now, to lynch any player then it would be brass, because of the somewhat... what's the word... hasty response to my vote. I think I had a few other things on brass as well, although I would need to study the past posts more closely if you want me to write them out.

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Yeah that's just textbook non-committal bud. What do you think about Nonny?

I keep going back and forth on that. Now that I have been asked, let me go and review the thread.

Also, what is the appropriate amount of time you think brass, or anyone else, should've waited before voting for you/scum?

Well, maybe it was just how confidently brass (mis)read my post as a direct scum slip. From the look of that post, it sounded like brass just instantly jumped to a conclusion and acted as though it was the only possible conclusion. That seems a bit scummy to me, so I keep my vote on brass.

"Hasty" was the wrong word (in 139), perhaps...

(Oh, nice, I

just

saw Skygazer's post.) I think I am coming to a more solid decision about brass, and I should go check on nonny again and come to a conclusion. Does anyone know if there is a way to search this thread for only posts by one user?

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Does anyone know if there is a way to search this thread for only posts by one user?

I just found it.

[2 718281828459]

So, after looking at nonny's 11 posts, I fail to understand this "self-deprecation" thing. Currently I read nonny as neutral or pro-town, and if I learned anything from those posts, it is that Formerfish almost seems to be more scummy than nonny.* (Although, I guess you could consider that only having made 11 posts can be a scum read.) I almost wonder if the "nonny is scumish" people are simply getting biased by reading the counters to nonny's posts...

Am I right that both me and nonny are at L-1?

*Well, admittedly I was only looking at Formerfish posts that nonny quoted, hence that "scum read" is groundless.

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I think I am coming to a more solid decision about brass

It's kind of convenient that your read suddenly gets stronger with no new content from brass after you were called out for having a noncommittal read, wouldn't you think?

Yeah, but I have been thinking about the situation more ever since I have been called out. Sometimes your thoughts become clearer purely due to time.

I just looked at the discussion again... Trinity almost looks like she is going off of wrong interpretations of nonny's behavior. I can see reading nonny as scum for inactivity, but not for this "self-deprecation" thing that (to me) is a bending of the facts. And then there is Formerfish. Maybe I can investigate them later (need to do other things now).

If it seems suspicious that I am "suddenly" investigating a lot of people, it is because I realized that I only have one real read right now, and I think I need more.

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Warning: Long Post

I'm hesitant to even respond to the multiple people saying I was "self deprecating", what I said about being a perfectionist was not meant to be self deprecating. I asked a question, received an answer, and responded to the answer. I did not phrase it as "woah is me, poor me", merely stated a fact and noted I'd try to lighten up since I'm just a serious person. This is the last I want to post about my personality, if you see it as scumread so be it, I feel like I've explained where I was coming from enough, either you see it as genuine or you don't.

That is what I got from it. Why you got to L-2 over it is beyond me.

What I wrote...

2. If brass

were

scum, then it would still be suicidal because the scum team would have just lynched their own for no apparent reason.

e

2.7, you see the logic error in point 2, right? If Brass is scum then how can scum lynch him if he's at L-2? There are only 2 scum in a newbie set up, correct?

I do not see that as a logic error. It was not as serious of a defense as the others, but the point was that people are

allowed

to vote for themselves, even if it is completely stupid to do so.

(I still contend that if 3 townies vote for someone, it is just as stupid for both scum to vote for the target whether the target is scum, requiring a self-vote, or the target being town, which is an instant giveaway no matter what.)

But you can disregard this one if you would rather.
My real defense was: "I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC."

Also, please EITHER call me "e" OR "2.7" but not both... "e2.7" implies a number approximately equal to 7.34, not 2.72.

I'm leaning scumread on 2.7, he is all over the place with multiple logic flaws. Not sure if it's just newbie errors or misdirection. Either way think either he is scum or scum is playing it cautious this game, since he's been at L-1 for over a day with no hammer.

"Multiple"? What are the others? (Genuine question.)

I read everything in a negative light. Once you get duped in this game you realize people will actually go to extents to [CENSORED] with you.

This explanation I have nothing against, feels legit and I respect knowing how you read things yourself. The part that I don't get is why Trinity is sheeping, almost every post from her is just following another player, like in post 122 (how do we link to posts?), with time can find more examples as well.

(I see no reason to respond to this; if you want I can)

[quote="In post 139, "2 718281828459"]
"Do you want brass lynched" well, I mean, if I were forced, right now, to lynch any player then it would be brass, because of the somewhat... what's the word... hasty response to my vote. I think I had a few other things on brass as well, although I would need to study the past posts more closely if you want me to write them out.

To everyone else, it's always good to be using your vote. Pressuring people with a vote may be the only way you can get a proper read on them.
VOTE: brassherald

Is there a reason why adding more pressure to the player

you

voted for (within reason, but I doubt two scum would instantly jump on this wagon unless they were suicidal) causes you to lose the townread?

Please, write them out. Because so far the only thing you are going on is his response to something you said, seeing as your original vote was simple bandwagoning.[/quote]
After reflecting on that one response, I thought that it was very telling. I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

---

Guerilla, what does the oddly worded "Considering posting intent to hammer on 2.7 now. Change my mind" mean?
A. You are going to hammer me soon
B. You are going to threaten me with hammer soon
C. You were going to do A or B but decided against it
D. None of the above

[2 718281828459]

More investigation. I guess my method ignores some parts of the context of a post, but I can always investigate further if I am not sure on something.

brassherald

-- OK, so the other thing I had against brass was that he went back to nonny at post 60, which I think is a little late and after nonny's main defenses. I understand this is flimsy evidence, but it was all I could find besides my Main Evidence.

Trinity

-- I do not like 67, 122, and 133. However she is new and I probably made worse errors in my first game (1872). So... not sure here, but maybe a slight town lean.

Formerfish

-- The only scummy thing I can possibly think of is that two days passed between 84 and 132, but other than that Formerfish is really pro-town: seeking information and acting in a logical manner to events.

Now to Guerilla:

A and B-ish. Posting intent to hammer is less a threat and more an acceleration of play. You're essentially saying "I will end the day barring unforeseen circumstances, so make your farewell or the case against you". I'm threatening you with that game state.

See below.
I might be a liability in a LyLo. But then again, I remember game 1872, end of day 3 -- I thought my position was absolutely indefensible, e.g. how I messed up day 1, read a scum as town day 2, and then read a townie as scum day 3. Yet, I got

night

killed and anyway most people were saying I was innocent. I am bringing up that game because it shows that one can think they are on the brink of losing and be totally wrong.

Or do you think you're an easy lynch? If you were, why's it easy? Which scummy player do you think is taking advantage here?

I think someone like brassherald or you could be taking advantage of me. But this is assuming that someone is taking advantage, and this is not just a misguided town bandwagon.

(Oh, skygazer, I just saw your post but I think I have already responded to everything either here or in my past posts.)

---

Here I go.

I am a Power Role.

At the very beginning, I got way too excited for being dealt a power role. This excitement, combined with trying not to accidentally reveal myself, led to some bad posts. Then it was all survival instinct -- it is one thing to lynch a townie, but to lynch one of only 2 (or maybe even only 1) power roles? So I acted too defensive, due to being desperate to survive without having to reveal myself.

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Actually, I do want to respond to this.

I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

So if nothing even immediately comes to mind how can you say just 4 hours ago that you've reached a more solid decision??

The idea was that I only had 1 main piece of evidence, but I thought that piece was strong. "Nothing comes to mind" was about other reads besides the one post I took offense to.

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Oh, wait, I was going to write about this but forgot to. This is more evidence against brass (admittedly more recent, but still).

So, jumping a bit too quickly on a scum slip is just not a thing, to me, but you do you as your partner tries to help you come up with good explanations for your bad play in your mafia PT.

I think this sentence is just ridiculous. Even if I somehow were scum and you somehow knew it 100%, your part about "my partner" coming up with "explanations" in the PT would still be impossible to know as confidently as you state it.

Brass being scum looking for an easy lynch seems like the best interpretation for me right now.

I will respond to nonny in a bit.

brassherald: I was waiting until a post like that (although I was thinking it would be less of an attack) to fully claim.

I am a Town Doctor

.

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OK, posts are coming faster than I can respond. Let me handle nonny first.

[2 718281828459]

I still want to keep my vote on nonny. This could be a mislynch, but we can afford 2 mislynches, so...

Would you like to defend yourself or claim a power role?

We've talked about this, but this is a logic flaw. So far most of your posts about game mechanics or "protocol" have has logical misrepresentations.

Yes, and I realized that was a flaw and admitted it. (I think so at least.)

Also post 57 and 92 seems odd. As someone who has been obsessed with the vote count, you even made your own "unofficial" vote count before voting. Why did you unvote twice in a row without placing a vote? Could be a way to look active while waiting to make a decision, not sure how to read it.

I do not know why I unvoted twice in a row. I was still forming a decision, so yeah.

I do not see that as a logic error. It was not as serious of a defense as the others, but the point was that people are

allowed

to vote for themselves, even if it is completely stupid to do so.

(I still contend that if 3 townies vote for someone, it is just as stupid for both scum to vote for the target whether the target is scum, requiring a self-vote, or the target being town, which is an instant giveaway no matter what.)

But you can disregard this one if you would rather.
My real defense was: "I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC."

You make it sound like it's not the L-2 reason, what other reason are you thinking of? The defense of scum self voting is odd, scum typically go for self preservation, so why would you make an excuse based on scum acting any way other then the typical? Yes, some have played scum stupidly but I don't think it'd be a typical scum play, atleast not day one newbie.

1. Not sure how to answer this because the question is confusing.
2. That was more of a joke defense.

Agree with skygazer post 160. Would like the see answers to those questions as well. (see you have responded but not going to remove this from my post)

OK, let me answer that... man, too many questions!

More investigation. I guess my method ignores some parts of the context of a post, but I can always investigate further if I am not sure on something.

brassherald

-- OK, so the other thing I had against brass was that he went back to nonny at post 60, which I think is a little late and after nonny's main defenses. I understand this is flimsy evidence, but it was all I could find besides my Main Evidence.

Trinity

-- I do not like 67, 122, and 133. However she is new and I probably made worse errors in my first game (1872). So... not sure here, but maybe a slight town lean.

Formerfish

-- The only scummy thing I can possibly think of is that two days passed between 84 and 132, but other than that Formerfish is really pro-town: seeking information and acting in a logical manner to events.

As you said that is weak at best against brassherald. You stated you had more of a list, and came back with one weak point against. Was there more, or are you scrambling for reasons why you bandwagoned?

I misremembered. I had, at that point, only one real reason (but I consider it strong).

By the way, right NOW, I have two reasons why I read brass = scum.

Here I go.

I am a Power Role.

At the very beginning, I got way too excited for being dealt a power role. This excitement, combined with trying not to accidentally reveal myself, led to some bad posts. Then it was all survival instinct -- it is one thing to lynch a townie, but to lynch one of only 2 (or maybe even only 1) power roles? So I acted too defensive, due to being desperate to survive without having to reveal myself.

Not sure how I feel about the role claim. To me role claiming day one is just asking to be killed night 1. You didn't really try to build a defense prior to a role claim. Wouldn't you want to build a defense prior to claiming, claiming does not really help town at this stage. SE or IC if my logic is wrong here please explain.

UNVOTE: 2.7 I want to see others' response to 2.7 post before someone can hammer.

What is this "build a defense"? Also, I considered claiming Doctor outright, but decided to do it slowly because I am not sure what the protocol is. (Perhaps that was a mistake.)

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Okay, so town doctor, why then did you say that there could be 1 PR?

Because I had not yet claimed doctor. I wanted to claim PR without giving information about which one I was. The reason for that (which may have been a mistake) is that full claims cannot be undone, and I was unsure of which to do.

[2 718281828459]

Now to respond to Skygazer:

I think I am coming to a more solid decision about brass

I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

So if nothing even immediately comes to mind how can you say just 4 hours ago that you've reached a more solid decision??

Because I was pretty solid (well, as solid as you can get on day 1) about Brass being scum.

Yeah, but I have been thinking about the situation more ever since I have been called out. Sometimes your thoughts become clearer purely due to time.

This says nothing and is frustratingly vague. Have you been only thinking about just that one single post where brass voted you? I would think if you've actually been thinking about brass then you would have more stuff to say when prompted.

True, but I considered it to be strong evidence.

If it seems suspicious that I am "suddenly" investigating a lot of people, it is because I realized that I only have one real read right now, and I think I need more.

This preemptive defense feels really scummy to me.

Why?

[2 718281828459]

I think I have covered everything.

Although Brass, why are you still voting for nonny? I thought all the evidence against nonny was groundless.

[2 718281828459]

The only past game is Newbie 1872.

Also, keep in mind that I was not attacked as strongly in that game. Really, I just got over excited and then over defensive, and I should not have. I was not like that in 1872 since I was a vanilla townie.

Also, I thought we were supposed to not lynch PR claims unless someone counter claims.

[2 718281828459]

The fact that 2.7 hasn't been back here since the claim is not at all making me doubt my read on him. Stirred the **** and walked out. Better for him as scum to lay low while we argue among ourselves. Sigh.

I thought I did post something but I guess the post did not take.
Most of the posts you guys wrote were

about

me and not

to

me, although I may have missed stuff.
My reads have not really changed anyway, I still think nonny is town (or at least not scum enough for all those votes) and brass is scum.

[2 718281828459]

I'm willing to bet scum is on damage control right now and that's why we haven't heard from E2.7

VOTE: E

I think that's L-1

This is a bad post

OK...

how

is this post "bad", Guerilla?

[2 718281828459]

I'm willing to bet scum is on damage control right now and that's why we haven't heard from E2.7

VOTE: E

I think that's L-1

This is a bad post

OK...

how

is this post "bad", Guerilla?

We ask you the questions here. Are you gonna pretend you're scum reading me now? Cuz that's a convenient 180 from the post directly before that.

No, you just wrote "This is a bad post" with no explanation. I am trying to understand what is going on there.

[2 718281828459]

We've been at this for 6 days and you only have 2 reads, E?

Well, I mean, it is hard to GET reads if most of the play is centered on attacking me. The only other things I see are that Trinity and you have kept voting for nonny based on ill-formed suspicions ("self-deprecation" really? I would have to agree with nonny that those posts are not self-deprecating and certainly not scummy.)

Both are bad reads, but I'm not going to hold bad reads against someone, but are you even trying to sort people? You've been appealing to emotion, talking about how hard it is to play the game under pressure, but have done nothing other than a really really bad PR claim. That's why people are scum reading you, because you are doing nothing. No sorting, nothing.

I mean, it genuinely is hard. But I am starting to suspect anyone who still votes for nonny after all this time. I understand being wrong, but the evidence is flimsy and has been refuted already.

And then, after you make the worst PR claim in the history of the game, you try to justify the only read you seem to have actually given a reason for with "He attacked me, he must be scum."

You misrepresented what I said. Your posts jumped to conclusions at a ridiculous speed. And I think you either are one of the nonny voters or you

just

switched.

I'm really not looking to lynch a PR claim that has no counter claim on Day 1, but you are making it so tempting because you are playing exactly like a newbie scum trying to justify poor play with being super lost and the game is too hard. So, if you are town, step up your play.

I will investigate more later tonight (kind of busy right now).

In other news, Guerilla has made the transition into looking townie now.

Iceman and Formerfish are on the watch list.

Noted for further investigation.

[2 718281828459]

I am voting for nonny because nonny is suspicious. Reads that are based on whether they agree with your reads are the worst reads so maybe try thinking.

I think that the only reasons that ANYONE is voting for nonny is (1) the "self-deprecation" thing or (2) the voter is scum. And (1) has been debunked.
So, I am using the nonny situation to look for scum.

I thought I did post something but I guess the post did not take.
Most of the posts you guys wrote were

about

me and not

to

me, although I may have missed stuff.
My reads have not really changed anyway, I still think nonny is town (or at least not scum enough for all those votes) and brass is scum.

Point one is an easy thing to say, no way to say if it's true or not. But given you were posting prolifically prior and then fell off the face of the earth, it's easy to doubt.

Point two, this is were I already pointed out to you, you have not attempted to build a defense. You know

you're

own alignment. If what we are saying is not true, if someone is twisting something, etc then it's your job to point it out and point out how you were actually acting in best interest of the town. You have to present a case.

*your

Initially I was playing

badly

, by letting my excitement flow into what I was posting. Then I got a bit too self-defensive. Then I tried to correct the situation and look for reads, but never got anywhere on that. I said I would research again, let me go ahead and do that. (Specifically, I want to try to find a read on FormerFish and Trinity.)

You have been building a defense for me because it validates your vote on Brass. Currently, brass nor I are under that much fire. You are the one that is read scum by the majority of active players and at risk of lynch. Put some of that energy towards your own standing. Saying you're innocent because you suspect Brass is not a defense, it's a distraction which is not working. And while I agree with your take on me simply because I know my own alignment, it actually at this point adds to my scumlean on you, why are you defending me so much? It's almost unnerving, the only way you could know I'm town that fully is if you are not. Otherwise it also looks like buddying which your partner may have told you to buddy someone in order to use it on D2 for easy lynch bait, but that is WIFOM at this point.

Again, I was using you to read scum. Although three people voted for you, it still seems likely that two of them are scum.

As for other reads I'm still lacking on scum reads. I think Brass and Nonny are looking town to me. Brass seems to be trying to find scum. And, he's focused, which may be because he found an easy mislynch (if he were scum) but, I feel like it's more because E is scum. I'm still neutral on Trinity and FF.

What about the others?

I find this question a bit hypocritical because you yourself only posted reads on 2 people.

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OK...

Formerfish, after further investigation, looks townish to me. I see nothing to indicate scum play here -- always trying to get information and play logically.
Trinity might appear scum except that first-timers really have to be judged differently. I also saw a lot of honest inquiries that appear townish, but they were earlier on. The lack of activity
Skygazer could go either way. Again, Skygazer still votes for nonny. However, the other reads I saw are more townish.

I think one of the last two is scum, but I

could

still be wrong here. (I doubt it is both.)

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L-1 again

. I think my votes are coming and going in waves.

OK, so now I like how nonny's voters all left (although, of course I do not like where one of them went). I am not really sure about the Iceman vote -- could it be that Iceman is just inactive for personal reasons? (Is this brassherald jumping to conclusions again?)

Expanding on that, I am wondering why a mere lack of activity from Iceman is causing brassherald to say "Top scumread right now" suddenly. Even though

I

disliked the ideas he had before, this jumping around with (at least in this case) flimsy evidence could be further evidence of brass being scum.

There has been so much, I am not sure how to respond to all of it. Though I am starting to not like Trinity's attitude (and the brass+Trinity team lines up with what I thought earlier...)
Although, I have to wonder how much of that is inexperience, so I want to wait before voting there. (It could be that she just wanted to keep a vote on the board but still voting for nonny.)

[2 718281828459]

I'm also going to throw out there that I'm very bad at the whole asking questions thing. Until things heat up I tend to observe and then get involved. I"ve also been very very busy this weekend. Spent the day at the junk yard looking for parts for my truck and then spent today doing yard work. I'm a bit sunburned now.

I wish I could do that for future games... but having taken an active play style for 2 games, suddenly changing that may be taken as a scum play. Although I remember I came under a bit of fire in my first game on day 1 as well...

(I probably should not start talking about future games until the end of this one...)

I have no idea how to respond to the recent comments, other than to tell Iceman that Formerfish gave reads on almost everyone... not sure if it was actually ALL of us though.

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The only complaint I have about lynching Bins is that I kind of do not to lynch the IC on day 1. I am sure that if we think she is scum we can kill her off before LyLo, but if she is town then we would be killing a valuable "soft" asset (soft, as opposed to a "hard" asset like a PR). The IC, if town, can be the key to the town's success, especially in LyLo's.

In fact, in my first game, we lynched the IC on day 1, and lost. Yes, correlation does not imply causation and there were plenty of other factors, but still.

Brass, why did you say

It can even be about any of your reads of the 7 other players you

need to read

in this game.

Would you not have seen Bins' post 7 minutes before? (Or did you not see that there was a 14th page?)

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The whole "conftown" thing made little sense to me. I mean I knew who the town were but it seemed like no one was confirmed town except Formerfish.
"Nonny was conf!town cuz she claimed to save a townie and pushed hard on 2.7's lynch." seems fallacious to me.

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Also what is "the claim"? Mine, or someone else's? I never found anything.

[2 718281828459]

Probably, I mean do whatever you can to survive if everything else fails.