Newbie 1922: Give Smith Another Day - Game Over

[GuiltyLion]

hello friends and new friends

What's a spec chat?

Spec chat I'm assuming is short for "spectator chat" - people who are watching and commenting on a game but not playing

VOTE: FormerFish

[GuiltyLion]

You were only town when you were drunk? Now as a sober player you are scum?

surely you can ask better questions than this?

@redMeow, what do you make of Cowbells' vote on you?

MKM - what kind of information/answer were you looking to get out of redMeow here? what do

you

make of RC's vote that you asked about?

[GuiltyLion]

@Newbies - be as pushy as you want to be. There's no harm in early pressure or driving discussion on things you feel are worth discussing.

VOTE: Miss Kobayashi Maru

Definitely should've read the rules more carefully and known the vote didn't count in the first place, but I'm weirded out that you called out this in particular. The rest of my post was waaay scummier

I can't remember the last time I've seen town refer to themselves or anything they've posted as scummy. Why do you think your post was scummy?

[GuiltyLion]

@MKM - word, I vibe

VOTE: demigodrick

[GuiltyLion]

anybody want to explain why they're voting for this guy?

he's trying a little too hard in a way that I can imagine being fake

[GuiltyLion]

With Demi at L-1 right now, I still haven't heard substantiated explanations from three of the four (Kobayashi, GuiltyLion, Cowbells) about why they're voting for him. Formerfish's analysis vibes with me pretty well, but not enough to fully convince me. I'm sus of the way Demi tunnels on Kobayashi instead of trying to defend himself, but then again I've been guilty of doing the same. Hoping my posts will remedy that.

I'll think on it but I have my FoS on Demi.

if you have your FoS on Demi, why do you also want explanations from three people voting him? I would assume that we are likely town seeing the same things you're seeing. If you're

not

seeing reasons to be suspicious ("not enough to convince me"), then why are you FoSing Demi regardless instead of the people making a questionable vote/push?

[GuiltyLion]

Care to explain why you tell newbies to push for info, then call me pushing for info fake and scummy?

I don't think "pushing for info" is always town behavior. I do think it's a useful thing to do if you are town.

You're also putting words in my mouth here. I didn't say anything about you "pushing for info". I just said you're "trying too hard".

Do you have reasons for thinking I'm scum beyond just my vote on you?

[GuiltyLion]

I would find it easy to change my read on you with more posts like this.

for example, this pings me as unnatural and forced phrasing, and not how town would reason or speak about people's alignments.

if MKM is scum, consider that you are literally telling him how to get you to townread him

[GuiltyLion]

I think MaryJo and redMeow are both town.

[GuiltyLion]

Apologies if i didnt get the phrasing right, however to me it means the same thing. Driving/pushing/pressuring. Its all for the same goal. You encourage newbies to do it, then turned around and voted me (after a frankly poor fence sitting post from MKM)

Scum are going to try to fake driving/pushing/pressuring. You realize this, yes? Just asking questions or pressuring is not enough to make someone town. There has to be a level of substance and genuine (and uninformed) intention behind that content that signifies town.

What does MKM's post have to do with me voting you? You yourself are not voting MKM, so why should I be voting there instead?

Ok then, add something to that. Why does it feel fake that I am actually trying to scum hunt? Is it literally because I am try harding? Because I am trying to generate conversation? It seems odd to me that you'd actually pull someone up on this and call it scummy. What have you contributed so far except jumping on the wagon of me so early in D1? That's mighty dodgy play in my book.

I'll probably put more effort into pushing a case on you later if my reads get stronger, but I've played some 50+ mafia games and over time you just get a roughly calibrated sense of who is posting genuinely vs who is faking it. There's a vibe to all of your posts, questions, comments that fits a pattern of what tryhard newbie scum looks like. I can keep picking out numerous examples, another one being the way you try to turn this around on me at the end here. Your goal seems to be to argue with me and try to make me defensive than to understand me. I've also asked questions of MKM and Clarity that were intended to give me some insight into their thought process and their alignment, and if you were town and paying attention you might put some weight to that.

On what basis?

unless you are scumreading them and want to give me reasons why you think they are scum, I don't really feel like it's important or even pro-town for me to answer this question right now.

[GuiltyLion]

sorry about the prod, I am here and catching up now

[GuiltyLion]

And this is what we have now. You're asking everyone, which is a clever move either way:
You want to see what others think about me and godrick, so in case one of us hangs, you will be able to judge other people and probably are able to build traps, no matter if he and I flip town and/or scum.
I can see though how it is a good idea to involve everyone with their reads regarding people and generally I like the idea.

What I conclude: you have lots and lots of gut feelings, mixed ones too, but never care to elaborate.
You're not being consequent with your thoughts or at least you're taking any of us with you on your journey, which is why I will

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

nvm I changed my mind, redMeow has decent odds of scum

this vote is especially bad - everything you say about RadiantCowbells is assuming he is town or has genuine uniformed motivation for what he's doing, but then you say you're voting him basically because he's not playing the game in the way that you want him to. You don't actually think he's mafia here, you just want a reason to put a vote on him.

[GuiltyLion]

okay just read through most of the stuff on page 12

Medic is super obvtown btw just in case that somehow isn't established over the few other pages I've yet to read

and it's slightly weird seeing RC laying out all of his thoughts but they all make complete sense to me so I'm feeling good about a townread there

[GuiltyLion]

i mean

we know if redmeow/mjl are scum they're probably scum together

we can fairly safely hit someone else and not really risk equity against that scumteam

I can see the possible Clearly-godrick team now, but I don't think it's the most likely scenario right now.

The biggest problem for me right now is that I feel like godrick is the individually-scummiest player on this list right now, but given that my first- and second- most likely scumpairings are Red-Godrick and Red-MJL, it's making me wonder whether going for Red is just overall a safer option.

What makes you think Red + godrick doesn't work?

p-edit: oh I guess you think it does
When you said you weren't happy with the associatives, did you mean you had a problem with the associatives themselves this early on or that you thought the associatives made them look suspicious?
It was a little ambiguous, thought it was the former at first

nah

i'm not happy with them as in they could be scum.

i'm also not happy with cc/godrick but cc has a few towny posts.

thanks guys for doing all the legwork this game so I don't have to

[GuiltyLion]

TOM I'm gonna compromise with you here and answer your questions but do it as lazily and hipfirey as possible

1. What have you been paying the most attention to this game?
2. Why should I believe that you're town?
3. What's the scummiest thing that your top townread has done?
4. What's the towniest thing that your top scumread has done?
5. What have you noticed so far this game that nobody else has mentioned?
6. How do you feel about your play overall this game?

1. trying to parse the newbie slots, they tend to be easier to read and SEs will show their alignment more from their votes than their posts
2. at this stage in the game you probably shouldn't? I would more advise you to see if you agree with the things I say and the lynches I'm pushing
3. you're post too many nigh unreadable walls, every maybe 5% of the time you get extreme tryhard scum who is capable of that
4. I guess one thing Demi has going for him is he's not afraid to pick a fight with pretty much everyone who votes him
5. FormerFish/MJL's interaction about the 'rules' of hammering and how MJL should have already picked up on some conventions from last game gave me some MJL pings and some town vibes from FF
6. I've been doing good stuff but not frequently enough. sorry, work was kinda shitty this week and I had stuff to do outside of work

[GuiltyLion]

RC I can see the waffle on redMeow but I wouldn't let yourself get too paranoid on DGR. 345 is another wildly self-conscious post that makes a bunch of arguments that aren't actually grounded in the important threads of the game.

like look at this

Town or scum motivated? Town, but I do feel uneasy about you. For example, GL has made 9 posts, and you have him as "ultra-town". Is that really enough content to be making that sort of declaration? I have my own reads towards GL, as I've detailed, yet you have my two scummiest reads (FF, GL) as your towniest reads.

he's trying to take points off his TOM townread because he doesn't like his read on me but he's doing it in a really forced way where he still townreads him. It's either an attempt to continue to make me look bad or an excuse to ignore the (good!) points and reads that TOM is making.

[GuiltyLion]

You vote me after a "re-read". Scum interaction with GL maybe?

and what's with the scare quotes here

[GuiltyLion]

RC I can see the waffle on redMeow but I wouldn't let yourself get too paranoid on DGR

also this is phrased badly because I'm tired and I used what little brainpower I had left catching up on posts in this game

I mean let yourself get too paranoid of scumreading town to the point where you talk yourself out of a good scumread

[GuiltyLion]

yeah I can see redMeow scum for much of the reasons you've said, but I kinda feel like I could see myself being wrong on redMeow more than I could godrick. what's the towny stuff in his ISO?

[GuiltyLion]

end of the day I'd lynch redMeow too if that's the better lynch but I also want to go back tomorrow when I'm a bit more functional and see who feels like they're avoiding DGR wagon

[GuiltyLion]

guess one other thing about DGR is him calling me out for 9 posts when he only had 10 posts may be kinda town indicative

because he's not really angling to get townread there but rather to push back against TOM's reads first and foremost

VOTE: redMeow
but I may go back to DGR at any time for the record

[GuiltyLion]

I have nothing to claim

RC I don't think you looked ridiculous for what it's worth

[GuiltyLion]

TOM/RC/FF are locktown
MKM/Clarity are extremely likely town

this game is almost solved, no? I still think it's DGR with like outside chance at MJL

[GuiltyLion]

I agree outing the tracker is best play here

[GuiltyLion]

wooo freelo

[GuiltyLion]

so it's a 1v1 between TOM and Demi?

easy
VOTE: demigodrick

[GuiltyLion]

also lol at Medic actually being a doc, name checks out

[GuiltyLion]

also I thought mechanically you repeatedly jail the kept and lynch outside of them

[GuiltyLion]

RC at this point you're equally obvtown as myself, Clarity, MJL, and MKM

[GuiltyLion]

i thought "avenues of investigation" was one

[GuiltyLion]

yeah it's always gonna be a tough game when the SEs are all town and in addition the town!newbies in this game were all good at projecting town as well

tough lobby, I hope neither of you feel bad for the loss at all

[GuiltyLion]

thanks Smith for modding

[GuiltyLion]

Am I that scummy?

you weren't bad for your first game here! I think it takes a few games of experience as both alignments to get a roughly developed sense of what town looks like and how to emulate a town thought process.

if I had to try to come up with a simplified single piece of advice for you, I'd say it's be a little more dialed back in how you argue with people, even though they're right and arguing for something that's against your win-con. Some of your arguments with me felt too aggressive and strongly to me like you were trying to catch me in a logical "gotcha" or win some kind of debate when that's not what mafia is, and that helped reinforce my read on you that you weren't genuinely trying to engage/sort people.

sometimes you do have to pull out the big guns and get into those kind of arguments with people because it'll get pressure off of you or secure a much needed mislynch, but early D1 is not yet the right time.

[GuiltyLion]

hahaha I've accidentally 'crumbed' before (though it wasn't even my role at the time, just a legit poor choice of words) when I said someone's case wasn't 'bulletproof'