Newbie 1941 - Game over

Spangled · Post Post #1294 (isolation #0) » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:48 pm

Keep in mind everybody this is a fairly low effort read-then-react based catch-up

Spoiler: Catchup

TL;DR in the form of a general readslist (but please at least skim my catch-up):
Town:
Emps
Holden
NaCl
Town/Null:
teacher
Null:
Ico
Red-slot/RCE
Wagon
Scumlean:
Kaniffee

All of the above was written about 4 hours ago (or something; before Xtoxm announced my replacing emps but after I responded to the Role PM), so I have new thoughts. I reread Kaniffee's ISO, and I think I have been tunnelling then a bit too much, but they still do ping me a bit, and a bit more than my null-reads. I'm changing them to weak SL. I personally don't really like an Ico lynch much, but I could take him as a compromise lynch. I'm sorry for not linking, but with that many posts that I've responded to, please give me some credit

Spangled · Post Post #1295 (isolation #1) » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:50 pm

In post 1293, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1291, emps wrote:Hi I'm back, btw Ico is at L-1.
If only this wasn't newbie queue...

What do you mean by that?

Spangled · Post Post #1296 (isolation #2) » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:52 pm

In post 1282, Wagonomics wrote:Emps wins = emps would be scum?

If emps is scum, he wins. I'm not even going to begin thinking about that; it is too scary.

Spangled · Post Post #1297 (isolation #3) » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:58 pm

In post 1271, Kaniffee wrote:I guess just the idea of sheeping with someone you think is town, is kind of what scum have to do on some level because they know everyone is town, but if town is encouraged to do it too then that's 3+ people acting in a way that benefits scum. Not that voting town is always a bad move, but only doing it to sheep is what jumped out at me. Again, I'm new so there may be some deeper strategy I don't get, but that's why it stood out to me.

That first sentence doesn't even make sense. Sheeping your townreads means you're acting in a way you think benefits town, since you should

trust

the person you're townreading.

Oh, maybe you misunderstand the term sheeping. Sheeping means taking someone else's reads for your own; replacing yours with theirs. Not

voting

them.

Spangled · Post Post #1299 (isolation #4) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:03 am

teacher, could you throw out a readslist for us?
Actually, could everyone get some readslists out; at the moment I'm dimly aware of what everyone else thinks, but not really.
Kaniffee, I'd especially like one from you.

Spangled · Post Post #1301 (isolation #5) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:10 am

In post 1300, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 1296, Spangled wrote:If emps is scum, he wins. I'm not even going to begin thinking about that; it is too scary.
what? why?

Way too many people townreading him. Maybe I've misread the thread and it's just cyrus saying 'emps is town' over and over again, but I don't think so.
I will admit that that post was a bit exaggerated though; if he survives to LyLo he might be suspected but I think he'll be NKed before that for his sheer towniness.
And I do think he's town.

Spangled · Post Post #1303 (isolation #6) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:13 am

Fair enough. He has been a bit absent for a while - and it's true that almost never is someone 'autowin if scum'.

Spangled · Post Post #1306 (isolation #7) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:26 am

In post 1304, RCEnigma wrote:I'm not as caught up as you are, however I'm not as big a fan of emps as my predecessor. I'm actually surprised you are giving him as much wiggle room as you are given its your slot he's pushed a majority of the day and for *generally* weak reasoning.

I will freely admit that cyrus reeked of newb!scum for a good while, and did have some pretty terrible moments in his ISO. I hope to turn around this slot though. Like I said in my catch-up, I'd like to not know what slot he is, and analyse and re-analyse as to why he could be scum or town; his ISO is kind of split between townie and scummy moments, and with some good newbie stuff thrown in there as well.

Spangled · Post Post #1307 (isolation #8) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:27 am

EBWOP: What his alignment is, not what slot he is.

Spangled · Post Post #1309 (isolation #9) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:40 am

In post 1308, RCEnigma wrote:What do you mean not know what his alignment is?

I'd like to be a spectator and be watching this game and trying to sort cyrus. He has a weird slot.

When you said that emps pushed cyrus for generally weak reasoning, could you point out a few examples to me, I think I must have mostly missed them (or I saw them the first day I was doing the catch-up and forgot them overnight).

Spangled · Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:41 am

EBWOP: Because I know what alignment cyrus is obviously; I *am* him.

Spangled · Post Post #1341 (isolation #11) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:37 pm

In post 1329, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1326, HoldenGolden wrote:UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude

With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.
It's scum indicative more often than town indicative.

Well, to be fair, I reckon I can case cyrus as having a severe case of newb!town, with some 9d-chess levels of WIFOM (whether intentional or not) in there, but I can see how others might have seen his slot as scummy. I know it isn't, but no one else does.

Spangled · Post Post #1343 (isolation #12) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:41 pm

In post 1339, teacher wrote:I don’t like it. The long ketchup without links is Lamist. I feel semi pocketed. And I find him scumreading his ownslot a little tmi where the view on the slot before was either town or erratic and therefore worth a D-1 lynch. I hadn’t ISO’d til you asked but actually would be fine wagoning that claim as well.

I would have assumed scum!cyrus would share cheating concerns by other means, so was adding that to the thought that he was too erratic to be scum, but Blergh is my overall reaction.

Why is a long catch-up without links LAMIST? (Or was it how I did it?)
And where have I tried to pocket you?
(And I'm not SR-ing cyrus; 1306 was admitting that he looked a bit like newb!scum but I think he had some good moments in there as well, and that y'all are misinterpreting his newbieness for scumminess).

Spangled · Post Post #1345 (isolation #13) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:46 pm

In post 1332, RCEnigma wrote:Example of Elsa Jay using this tactic as scum here

As well as using it myself here

Haven't seen it used by town. Don't think reading your own slot is a priority for a town rep in, you don't have to sort yourself so it's more or less busywork.

Why does scum use this tell? I'm not really sure, maybe to project how "objectively" they're reading the game if they are including their own slot. Or to seem more involved in gamesolving. But again they don't have to solve their own slot.

I didn't try and read my slot, I admitted he did some weird stuff that could be misinterpreted as scummy. Reading 1306 again I do realise that it didn't come off that way; my language there was a bit strong on his scumminess.
I regret that post's wording now.

(I actually have seen that tactic used by town; here.)

Pedit:
Kaniffee, could you react to my SL of you? Could you defend yourself perhaps?

Spangled · Post Post #1347 (isolation #14) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:47 pm

In post 1345, Spangled wrote: tactic used by town;

Tactic is the wrong word, but y'all know what I mean.

Spangled · Post Post #1348 (isolation #15) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:48 pm

In post 1342, Kaniffee wrote:Did anyone actually go to the posts Spangled was talking about? I just gave up and got confused.

I referenced their numbers. It doesn't get much easier than that (unless I included links, but that would have taken a while).

Spangled · Post Post #1350 (isolation #16) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:50 pm

In post 1333, Xtoxm wrote:
VC 1.16
[4] Iconeum:
RCEnigma, Spangled, Wagonomics, teacher
(L-1)

[2] RCEnigma:
NaCl, emps

[1] cyrus62:
Iconeum

[2] Not Voting:
Kaniffee, HoldenGolden

The Day 1 deadline is in
: (expired on 2019-07-07 21:00:00)

@mod you've still got me as cyrus (being voted by Ico).

Spangled · Post Post #1351 (isolation #17) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:56 pm

In post 1349, teacher wrote:
In post 1343, Spangled wrote:Why is a long catch-up without links LAMIST? (Or was it how I did it?)
Because of 1342 - it’s relaticely simple to add links, but doing it without vastly reduced the odds of people checking up. So you get credit for a speedrrsd without (too much) concern of consistency or revealing a mindset. It’s more the joe than the what.

As for pockets, I felt like I was more present in the readthrough than I have felt in the game, but that could be because you’re familiar w me and so picking up on more.

I really didn't think about links; I kind of assumed that everyone would go back and look at the areas I talked about at some point anyway. I could go back and add links if you like...
I picked up on you a lot because I flip flopped on how I was feeling about you for a good while; - like I said, you rubbed me the wrong way at various points - because I was trying to get straight how I felt about your slot.

Spangled · Post Post #1353 (isolation #18) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:00 pm

In post 1352, teacher wrote:
In post 1351, Spangled wrote:
In post 1349, teacher wrote:
In post 1343, Spangled wrote:Why is a long catch-up without links LAMIST? (Or was it how I did it?)
Because of 1342 - it’s relaticely simple to add links, but doing it without vastly reduced the odds of people checking up. So you get credit for a speedrrsd without (too much) concern of consistency or revealing a mindset. It’s more the joe than the what.

As for pockets, I felt like I was more present in the readthrough than I have felt in the game, but that could be because you’re familiar w me and so picking up on more.
I really didn't think about links; I kind of assumed that everyone would go back and look at the areas I talked about at some point anyway. I could go back and add links if you like...
I picked up on you a lot because I flip flopped on how I was feeling about you for a good while; - like I said, you rubbed me the wrong way at various points - because I was trying to get straight how I felt about your slot.
No need to link for me, I’m dual monitoring it rn, and actually lurking it more even if I’m only in the 300s.

I’m also liking your general activity level. How many games have you played since we last played?

I took a month break, and then back to playing. I'm playing this and another game.
(So, none, really).

Spangled · Post Post #1361 (isolation #19) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:57 pm

Here's my catch-up, now with pagelinks!

Spoiler: Catchup

Spangled · Post Post #1362 (isolation #20) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:59 pm

In post 1355, Kaniffee wrote:
In post 1346, teacher wrote:Kaniffee, when I asked to rap with you I was asking you to explain why you are scum on my slot. You’ve repeatedly expressed suspicious, but not reasons. I want to see how you think a little more.
I have given reasons 1047 and 579. I stand by them. You can ask for clarifications on those if you like and I'll respond in the morning.

As for defense @spangled I really don't feel like looking through all the posts or assuming which ones you mentioned refer to me (since you didn't attach names to some).
I will say on 1053 that I don't see what's wrong with switching my vote from one scum lean to the scum lean that's more likely to be lynched. The teacher wagon never even got to L-1 iirc, and the people who were voting teacher with me had left for largely the same reason. Staying on teacher at that point felt like a waste of a vote.

It's just - correct me if I'm wrong - I don't think you voiced that read and/or explained it before that.

Spangled · Post Post #1363 (isolation #21) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:05 pm

In post 1324, RCEnigma wrote:If I live through the night can we start rvs over?

I think I'd like that actually.

Spangled · Post Post #1364 (isolation #22) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:08 pm

In post 1359, teacher wrote:
In post 1294, Spangled wrote:393 helps me yet further with town!emps, even if he doesn't understand the sheer newbieness of cyrus; I softed a PR investigative role and then hardclaimed a JK my first game (teacher you'll remember that)
I liked this post generally when held against what it was talking about but this reference was quite weird to me - you did this, true, but you did it not as a sheet newb but as a newbscum facing a D1 wagon........

True, but I just think it shows newb.
That reference was a bit weird, but I was just giving it as anecdotal evidence of what a newbie is capable of; how I didn't understand what people would take it as when I softed; I didn't mean to (soft, that is).
Maybe I should have said 'accidentally softed a PR investigative'.

Spangled · Post Post #1365 (isolation #23) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:12 pm

I think we should lynch Kaniffee tomorrow; they haven't said much of value for a good while and their whole ISO is a bit nothing-y to me. They have had occasional contributions, but I still like a Kaniffee lynch better than any others (which is to say still not terrible much).

(Someone tell me if they disagree and why, and if I am tunnelling).

Spangled · Post Post #1366 (isolation #24) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:30 pm

In post 1355, Kaniffee wrote:
In post 1346, teacher wrote:Kaniffee, when I asked to rap with you I was asking you to explain why you are scum on my slot. You’ve repeatedly expressed suspicious, but not reasons. I want to see how you think a little more.
I have given reasons 1047 and 579.
As for defense @spangled I really don't feel like looking through all the posts or assuming which ones you mentioned refer to me (since you didn't attach names to some).

Low effort defending yourself? Seriously? I don't know if that's scummy (maybe you know you can't defend yourself or something...?) or just low-effort town.

Spangled · Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:38 pm

Probably mostly NAI.

Spangled · Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:45 pm

In post 1326, HoldenGolden wrote:UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude

With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.

Since no one else is talking and I have time on my hands, I have to ask you what you mean by 'Springfleg dude'.
I know that's referring to me, but was it just a misreading of my name? Or does Springfleg mean something?

Spangled · Post Post #1372 (isolation #27) » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:10 am

In post 1370, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1361, Spangled wrote:Here's my catch-up, now with pagelinks!

Spoiler: Catchup
|PAGE 4|
I don't like 81

In 88, first bold with vote then 'I'm only bold when I'm town'

93 is slightly townie; legit confused tone.

|PAGE 5|

low in 118 'as scum I'd try to keep some suspicion alive on me': what the heck is this reasoning

|PAGE 6|

NACL provokes discussion (see 148); good questions

|PAGE 7|

157 is legit, but a bit weird

174 is kind of weird let's see where this goes

|PAGE 13|

Holden is nice and towny; 319

|PAGE 14|

I know 325 is a case on *me* but I'm liking emps more and more

329 - I swear the amount of times I've seen scum say they'll read everything later... is about the same amount as I've seen town do it

|PAGE 15|

368 makes a good point, I don't think scum would catch that/point it out

teacher's reasoning in 374 is good

|PAGE 16|

377's 'there's no way I'm going to be alive tomorrow' feels a bit lamisty

379 hurts me it's such a newbie thing to do

381 still rubs me the wrong way though

393 helps me yet further with town!emps, even if he doesn't understand the sheer newbieness of cyrus; I softed a PR investigative role and then hardclaimed a JK my first game (teacher you'll remember that)

|PAGE 17|

401 makes me cringe
(sorry everyone I'll stop commenting on my slot)

|PAGE 18

431 helps me think town!teacher

|PAGE 19|

456 for Wagonlad is helping me think him town but he hasn't said much else to help

473: 'but it's not my fault there are 19 plus pages of this to go through on the first literal day. Not just day one in game but the the first physical day' is exactly how I feel

|PAGE 20|

479: I'm absolutely hating Red right now; not because I disagree but this is so low effort I can't even

481 is helping me a little thank you Red

482-484 are also helping me

although 483's last line seems like posturing, but maybe that's just Red

485 goes a little far (a mislynch isn't gamethrowing)

486 understands cyrus (I'm not claiming anything, it just agrees with my feelings about cyrus' newbieness)

487 shows Red hasn't read everything (ba dum tish); doesn't know about Holden's joke-case on Wagonlad
- but the last line makes a good point

488 has some good reasong, but I'm going to stop giving posts that show town!emps; for me there are too many

498 helps me feel some town!Kaniffee, but not really much

|PAGE 21|

504 and 505 further help me with town!NaCl

|PAGE 23|

573 does feel pocket a bit

|PAGE 24|

579 Kaniffee is still a weak TL

there's so much I want to say on cyrus; I kind of wish I was replacing into a different spot so I could analyse and re-analyse and build cases
but

|PAGE 25|

620 makes my read on Red officially a weak townread

|PAGE 26

634 Red what even
you're not scummy, you're towny, but your playstyle is just

I can feel 644 as town but for some reason teacher is still rubbing me the wrong way and it'll stay a null read at this point

|PAGE 27|

658 is damn straight (hey it even rhymes)

663 pushes teacher to a weak TL

668: I think it's a personal thing but I hate it when people say 'I'm just town'; I think I'm easily convinced by people to feel a certain way about others, so my brain gets mixed messages when people say that; wanting to agree with them but also not wanting to be the person who sheeps others, so I vaguely SR those who say stuff like that
I'd say 'everyone consider yourself warned' but that would feel like posturing; rather, everyone keep that in mind somewhat
(that still feels like posturing but anyway)

673 what does this post even mean (but this is NAI; the tone is weird but y'know)

|PAGE 28|

675 feels townier yet; NaCl is okay in my mind

685 pushes NaCl to a TL I think

696 makes Holden town I think despite disagreements with that post

699 I'm really feeling town!Holden

|PAGE 30

729 doesn't help me with Kaniffee; it's NAI for me. Pushing a PL aggressively is the action of scum, and Kaniffee isn't doing that, but...

|PAGE 31|

753 sounds like it should be a joke

Despite that, feeling better on town!Wagonlad as of 754 to 759
his response to Red's Jackal vote just feels weird to me though (760)

768 feels a bit posture-y but not very scummy and not enough to change my thoughts on Holden

|PAGE 32|

786 - scum don't ask to freeze the deadline I don't think; teacher's still looking towny

|PAGE 33|

Personally I disagree with 802; newb!scum don't tend to ask questions about people's reads (but Red shows towny reasoning)

Thank you for voicing my thoughts in 818; PLs don't help town if you can find scum (which you can)

|PAGE 34|

Kaniffee's reasoning on Holden is just rubbish (838); it's half way to the 'firetrucks are red and they're always rushin' (Russian) around, so they're from the USSR' thing
(did I get that right?)
I mean it might just be that they don't understand ToS and it's 'jokey'-ness but seriously?

840 what is this tldr

842 teacher's reasoning is sound

843 I'm liking teacher yet more

|PAGE 35|

Kaniffee 858 you are going back down to null; there are better people to lynch than teacher

871 I'm still good with town!Holden

|PAGE 36|

875 is a defence that can go either way for me but I'm leaning scummy

Ico going against the flow in 878 is good

But still 883 heck yeah it's an underwhelming catch-up. Still, his going against the flow, especially on teacher and emps, is good

886 is so Red and it's kind of frustrating in that I want to SR for that casualness but I still feel like that's just Red being Red

Liking 889

What is 890 gah

|PAGE 37|

I like 903's analysis, Holden is towny

teacher's willingness in 904 to explain himself to cyrus is slightly towny to me

I like teacher's analysis of cyrus in 906 as well

Flash thought: I still don't like Red's willingness to just make an Ico flashwagon (is that a phrase people use?)
and I can't hide my thoughts behind 'it's just Red being Red' forever
And jumping off teacher without an explanation is sort of iffy
But Red is Red; it can't be changed

|PAGE 38|

930 is going with the flow
Kaniffee is my scummiest read yet I think

in 944, what NaCl says about Red is true. Maybe Red could be scum

|PAGE 39|

963 has some good reasoning gah I keep flip-flopping about which way to to sort Red
But I do still think teacher is probably town

966 has good reasoning

Agreeing with 967 mostly.

968 has good reasoning I guess

|PAGE 40|

Ico is seeming town but he also rubs me the wrong way a bit. 991 in particular.

But he does have some good reasoning - but scum can display good reasoning as well.

[I'M NOT REALLY SURE]

emps seems to have drifted into irrelevance at this point but I'm keeping my TR of him

Oh, no, just proved me wrong (on the irrelevance, not on the towniness)

I'm liking teacher more and more but he's back to rubbing me the wrong way a bit

|PAGE 41|

I'm mostly sheeping teacher on 1021 but I reckon Kaniffee is not a townlean, and I'm more putting Wagon and Red at null. Also not really sure on Ico.

1024 feels a bit like buddying, but I don't really know how much it is buddying, or how AI it is.

|PAGE 42|

1025 I agree with teacher somewhat, and he's definitely got some good reasoning on Ico.

What the heck is 1033

Kaniffee is looking so scummy for me; they're just gliding on all the townpoints they've earned and aren't doing anything

Everyone is ignoring Kaniffee

|PAGE 43|

1053; 'Well seeing as teacher is unlikely to be lynched' - if you think someone is scum, push a flipping lynch (ba dum tish)

|PAGE 44|

1079 and 1080 feels a bit like posturing - but maybe that's just Red

|PAGE 45|

1104 has mostly good thoughts, but there's nothing wrong with being on a vanity

Emps I think you've got it wrong in 1114; you should stall claim as vt because it narrows the pool of who the PRs are. With both Ico and I (cyrus) having claimed, that narrows down scum's pool of who to shoot to 5 players.
I'm not saying I'm vt though; let's get this wifom going

|PAGE 46|

What is this fluff-talking p.g. 46

|PAGE 49|

I can't comment on all of p.g. 49 because it's just ico fighting cyrus

[SOMEWHERE]

I hope someone can tell me after the game why cyrus and Red were force-replaced

|PAGE 50|

The second paragraph of 1246 seems off to me; it's just bad reasoning. Sheeping your townreads to some degree makes sense.

|PAGE 51|

1260: that is an excellent movie, if only because of the delicious alliteration. Hopefully, RCE, I can sort you better than I have been sorting Red (which is to say not much).
If you use the post tags [post]Post #[./.post] it will take you directly there which is what I think Teacher meant.

Y'know, I wish I'd known that for a long time.

Spangled · Post Post #1373 (isolation #28) » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:17 am

Still, the pagelinks are good enough. It'll be right.

Spangled · Post Post #1374 (isolation #29) » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:33 am

In post 1369, emps wrote:Ahh I'm pulling an all nighter probs should have enough time to catchup.

Could you also tell us what you think of the Ico wagon?

Spangled · Post Post #1423 (isolation #30) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:24 pm

In post 1402, Wagonomics wrote:The more I think Kani might be town, the more cautiously optimistic I am that Ico just flips red.

I'm worried about the opposite, really.

Spangled · Post Post #1424 (isolation #31) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:28 pm

In post 1419, teacher wrote:Eh I got it done fast enough before curtain.

.
Speaking of which, while we are waiting I promised a little bit of maths:

For the tracker claim strategy, I will refer you to a post made long ago in my history when the tracker claim was a more active part of the newb queue. I am glad that it is gone. But here that post is. Obviously the situation here is slightly different -- it is way more likely we are in B2 or C3 than B1 from the lack of nightkill. Even so, in C3, the claimed tracker gets protection and results. In B2, they likely dont get results, but we can solve around a known!town slot. Im more agnostic here depending on the trackers readslists position.

For the neap claim strategy, I will write the posts: neap only exists in A1 and B3. In A1, we get 2 conf!towns out of the claim (or even better, conf!scum), and the claim leaves the cop less likely to be RBed/killed. In B3, its even better, since we get the same 2 conf!towns and a guarantee of another result because the claimed neap will be protected by the doc. Given the lack of nightkill, if a neap exists at all, it is more likely we are in B2, so would lean towards a claim and public results.

One final maths point in general - it is statistically more likely for a JK to stop the killer than stop the kill in the abstract. But that abstract math matters less than does the JK's ACTUAL reasoning regarding their target.

Wait, why is a tracker claim less of a part of the newbie queue now?
What changed between then and now?

Spangled · Post Post #1425 (isolation #32) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:30 pm

In post 1415, NaCl wrote:Yeah, are you saying the mafia passed on their kill, then?

They could have done that to let us WIFOM.

...But it would be a suboptimal strategy, wouldn't it?
They don't really gain anything out of it... I wouldn't think...
Since lack of a nightkill doesn't really change who we decide to lynch.
I don't think.

Spangled · Post Post #1433 (isolation #33) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:17 pm

Yes, let's please get this wagon going.
You've echoed some of my thoughts, but given an entirely (and probably even more valid) perspective on it.
Where I had mostly some general unease at the tone of some of their posts which really was not dispelled by their defence of themselves, you've laid out a decent case.
VOTE: Kaniffee

Pedit:
Fair enough. I think I'll use that as a username elsewhere, actually. I quite like it.

Spangled · Post Post #1434 (isolation #34) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:18 pm

Also I had some PoE in there for Kaniffee, but mostly it was just general feelings.

Spangled · Post Post #1437 (isolation #35) » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:47 pm

838 pings me a bit; 'since that's like the jokey 10 minute version of this game, telling jokes just might be his default playstyle' - something being jokey definitely doesn't mean that people tell jokes on it, and whether or not it is a genuine misunderstanding, I feel like it looks like scum just trying to invent activity from nothing, especially since they didn't really end it with any kind of point except 'it makes me warier'; it was a whole lot of nothing as a post.

729 is also a whole lot of nothing disguised as activity, especially since it ultimately is just 'wait for the replacements'.

668 has focus on the NK that I'm not sure town have so soon into the game. Ultimately probably NAI but it's still a bit off, I guess.

858 just seems sheepy on face value, especially as they never seem to express any

reasons

. Maybe I'm missing context but...

[post[1053[/post] is still pinging me. 'Well seeing as teacher is unlikely to be lynched' just looks opportunistic; if you think someone is scum make a case and see if that gets them lynched. Don't jump off on the nearest mislynch you can find. Switch your vote, sure, but still pay attention to your other, at least somewhat progressed, scumread.

This post is borne a little bit out of tunnelling, I know, but here are the things that I notice trawling back through their ISO (that you haven't mentioned - or maybe you have mentioned some, sorry about that then).

Spangled · Post Post #1458 (isolation #36) » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:43 am

@Wagonlad
But if you bet on something and the bets don't last, isn't putting a bet that someone is town also an indication that you think they'll get lynched?

In post 1440, HoldenGolden wrote:
In post 1437, Spangled wrote:838 pings me a bit; 'since that's like the jokey 10 minute version of this game, telling jokes just might be his default playstyle' - something being jokey definitely doesn't mean that people tell jokes on it, and whether or not it is a genuine misunderstanding, I feel like it looks like scum just trying to invent activity from nothing, especially since they didn't really end it with any kind of point except 'it makes me warier'; it was a whole lot of nothing as a post.

729 is also a whole lot of nothing disguised as activity, especially since it ultimately is just 'wait for the replacements'.

668 has focus on the NK that I'm not sure town have so soon into the game. Ultimately probably NAI but it's still a bit off, I guess.

858 just seems sheepy on face value, especially as they never seem to express any
reasons
. Maybe I'm missing context but...

is still pinging me. 'Well seeing as teacher is unlikely to be lynched' just looks opportunistic; if you think someone is scum make a case and see if that gets them lynched. Don't jump off on the nearest mislynch you can find. Switch your vote, sure, but still pay attention to your other, at least somewhat progressed, scumread.

This post is borne a little bit out of tunnelling, I know, but here are the things that I notice trawling back through their ISO (that you haven't mentioned - or maybe you have mentioned some, sorry about that then).

838 is a fairly decent point
729 I think is pretty NAI: most people were waiting on the replacement because jackel was scummy off the little bit he posted.

Spoiler: useless sidenote
You know I think that so far has been the most eye opening thing for me about game logic. Retrospectively, the almost universal dive onto ico followed by relatively weak counter wagons/defense for town!ico screams a townie mislynch. I know it's not always gonna be the case, but cool little learning experience.

668 is honestly werid shit that cyrus did as well with nks. No clue honestly how to read into that, so I'll save that for someone else.

858 and 1053,
What do you make of his initial reasons for scum leaning teacher and his reads post in general then?

Before [post]579 they never actually express a teacher scumlean or any reason as to do so, and the read there has such bad reasoning; it's a null read disguised as a 'I'm-doing-things' read, I think. And they cling on to said reasoning for 300+ posts, see 832. As for 858, that feels so bloody fake. If the good reasoning they're talking about is coming from Red (which is how I read it), then Red had made two posts on teacher prior to that point, 818 and 822 and while they're legitimate, there is so little there to suspect teacher for. It could be PoE, but they make not the slightest mention of that, not even when they're explaining it to teacher.

Spangled · Post Post #1459 (isolation #37) » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:45 am

Woah something weird happened there. Sorry about that everyone.

Spangled · Post Post #1460 (isolation #38) » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:52 am

In post 1450, Wagonomics wrote:
WAGONS
V
A
L
U
E
INVESTOR

Spangled - Town
90
Wagonomics

Think I'll start here for today

What about me has been towny; why are you betting that?

Spangled · Post Post #1461 (isolation #39) » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:54 am

In post 1443, Kaniffee wrote:My readslist hasn't really changed since the last time I posted it except that Iconeum is out.
Here it is again for your convenience.
Town: Cyrus/Spangled, Wagon
TL: Holden, Emps
Null: Red/RCE, NaCl
SL: Teacher

Could you explain your NaCl read to me, please?

Spangled · Post Post #1483 (isolation #40) » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:48 pm

In post 1460, Spangled wrote:
In post 1450, Wagonomics wrote:
WAGONS
V
A
L
U
E
INVESTOR

Spangled - Town
90
Wagonomics

Think I'll start here for today
What about me has been towny; why are you betting that?

@Wagonlad

Spangled · Post Post #1486 (isolation #41) » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:26 pm

In post 1484, Wagonomics wrote:Cause Cyrus obvtown and you took his slot

Some people don't think that, though.
Could you make a case on that, please?

Spangled · Post Post #1491 (isolation #42) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:35 am

In post 1487, Wagonomics wrote:Do you think I'm pocketing you or what dude? No one's seriously pushing you, idgaf if you're someone's tier 3 scumread you're probably not getting lynched today.

Whoscum mantisboi?

I don't think you're pocketing me, I just want a clearer read on you - town or scum. Right now I only have one scumread - Kaniffee - and it's worrying me; I need to find more town so I can PoE or I need to find scum (eliminating the need to PoE, obviously).

Spangled · Post Post #1492 (isolation #43) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:36 am

In post 1488, emps wrote:
In post 1486, Spangled wrote:
In post 1484, Wagonomics wrote:Cause Cyrus obvtown and you took his slot
Some people don't think that, though.
Could you make a case on that, please?
Who doesnt think ur at least a TL springfleg guy

I meant 'cyrus obvtown'. Plenty of people don't believe that; I don't really get it either.

Spangled · Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:25 am

In post 1497, HoldenGolden wrote: Honestly, it's really freaking annoying. I felt I had a good town list to PoE from day 1, but now it's like I'm begining a new game.

Maybe we should start RVS all over again.

Spangled · Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:29 am

Woah, Wagonlad.
I'm really not sure that's enough to call teacher scum, especially since I think he's been fairly towny the whole game.
That's out of the blue.

Spangled · Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:08 pm

Okay, ISOing Wagonlad

Spoiler:

TL;DR: Wagon is now a townlean for me personally.
Also, @Wagonlad, check 1152 for cyrus' final bet, I think.

Spangled · Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:10 pm

In post 1523, Kaniffee wrote:Its interactions with Cyrus did seem pretty genuine and made me question my sus a bit

Can you point out some of those interactions?

Spangled · Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:12 pm

In post 1499, HoldenGolden wrote:
Crisp cold air blew across RC's mysterious face as he stood behind the brothel. The bandages flapping around his concealed face. Dusk had fallen quite rapidly, coating the alleyway in a suspicious veil of darkness.

"He should of been here by now," He remarked, looking down at his cracked watch. It had been a long time since he last saw his lover after the...incident. Society can be cruel after all.

The metal backdoor to the brothel finally opened to reveal a tall, handsome bearded man. His white teeth glimming in the moonlight. A suede jacket and dress pants rounded out his attire.

"Oh sweetie, where the hell have you been?" Wagonmics said, playfully throwing a handful of wagoncoins near the upper junction of RCs legs. The covered man smiled before approaching his lover, pulling back the tight bandages to [Retracted]
.

We're doing this now. Okay. I think I'll be as active as I can possibly be here on out.

Spangled · Post Post #1536 (isolation #49) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:44 pm

In post 1493, HoldenGolden wrote:This thread feels dead and that is bothering me. That makes me a bit wary on my read on kaniffee. Scum does not seem motivated to move the game state away from her lynch, nor dismantling it. Nobody has really come forward and posted anything defending her to a significant degree. Yes, there are those who are saying they townlean or town read them. But those same people dont seem to be doing anything about it.

I'm going to have to relook at my town reads. I feel I have overlooked some of the people there.

UNVOTE: kaniffee

@sprangfled, what is your take on the threads slowdown once kan was brought up?

Missed this earlier, sorry.
I don't feel that no one defending Kaniffee makes them less likely to be scum; I think that is a bit of a stretch.
The logic of your point is lost on me; it kind of seems to preclude that Kaniffee isn't scum.
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but I don't really think I get it.

Spangled · Post Post #1537 (isolation #50) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:46 pm

In post 1531, teacher wrote:nah mate, scum or town, Im always interested in content. I still dont see you generating that much (I think Ive done more than you tbh, so the disengaged shade threw me as well), but Im good to move past. To repeat my earlier question, do you have any posts of spangled you want me to dig in on.

I will say your Cyrus read doesnt do much for me. Thats a player I am resigned to not being able to read or understand until Ive seen him flip scum a few times.

I do want to see cyrus flip scum one time; he has a strange playstyle for sure.

Spangled · Post Post #1538 (isolation #51) » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:53 pm

In post 1479, teacher wrote:
In post 1477, RCEnigma wrote:I'll say that Kaniffe is probably the most consistent slot in this game. Like it's impressive.
Yea, but that’s kind of odd. Most slots evolve.

One thing I’ll say is that she is reading the game too literal. Don’t just look at the face of the words, try to construct the worldview behind them. Like you built a world-view for Cyrus on the L-1 claiming. You did it there but I don’t feel like it’s honestly trying to sort me - to see how the words can honestly be viewed another way.

Speaking of, @kan, vts don’t hide their role. Sure they don’t explicitly claim it. But the only way for town to win this game is for town to find town. So vts don’t have a role to hide. Only scum and PRs do. That’s why I view Cyrus’s insinuation that he had a role that needed to be hidden as a PR hint. That’s also why standard PR advice is to act a bit scummy - avoid the nk. Standard town advice is to get solving - bleed town and find the others doing so.

Of course that means sometimes PRs get lynched, which is why it's only 'act a bit scummy'; as little as you can without bleeding town (or bleeding scum, obviously).

Spangled · Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:46 pm

In post 1546, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 1543, Kaniffee wrote:
In post 1539, Wagonomics wrote:Hey Kanifee can I help you get an avatar set up?
Oh yeah I have one in mind to use. I just haven't gone to the set up part.
Please do! The scumminess of slots increases by 10% when they are a noavi

Jokes aside, I do think people's avatars affect how everyone else sees them in games, and less so as you get more familiar with a person.

Spangled · Post Post #1599 (isolation #53) » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:42 pm

In post 1588, Wagonomics wrote:Damn we're down to three days left and there's still no wagons 0.o

and I don't even know who I want to wagon right now

how am I going to do my wagonomics without wagons?!?!

I'm feeling that; I'm feeling a little less confident of my Kaniffee read and the fact that I have literally no other scumread - and that the one I do have is weakening - is scaring me somewhat.

Spangled · Post Post #1613 (isolation #54) » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:44 pm

In post 1607, emps wrote:His recent VCA look pretty good for him, but i dont think VCA is very useful this early on? Correct me if im wrong.

I imagine it can be. Associative reads are always useful, although I'd think they become hundreds of times more useful after one scum is caught.

Spangled · Post Post #1616 (isolation #55) » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:01 pm

In post 1606, NaCl wrote:Red/RCE

Cyrus is town according to him in 196, 305, 481, 484, 485, 620,

Puts 80 on Emps town, only 15 on Cyrus town in 484??

Red's kind of hard to read in general, his posts are really short, but I think that's just playstyle. Still paranoid about him trying to buddy up to Cyrus.

1316 is a good explanation about some possible (non)scumteams, seems like he's thinking it through.

In general RCE is asking questions and seems to be trying to scumhunt.

Yeah, I'm voting for teacher in this case. VOTE: Teacher.

Wait, why do you think scum is between teacher and RCE?
Could no one else be scum - after all, it takes two to make a scumteam?
And why can they not be scum together?

Spangled · Post Post #1618 (isolation #56) » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:17 pm

In post 1617, emps wrote:Who do you think would be RCEs buddy?
Who would be teacher's buddy?

Are you asking me or NaCl?

Spangled · Post Post #1631 (isolation #57) » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:10 pm

ISOing NaCl now

Spoiler:

TL;DR: a TL from me.

Spangled · Post Post #1635 (isolation #58) » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:24 pm

In post 1632, RCEnigma wrote:So I've never played with Scum! Teacher. If I had to guess, this would be the game. I'm finding I'm not agreeing with him generally or with his pushes plus his thought process is usually well articulated and clear which I don't feel is the case here.

My reservation: I'm struggling with the read there as I'm not sure Teacher pushes on me like this as scum unless the mislynch scum had lined up was taken off the table via save or spewed town early today.

On the other hand, Teacher flipping scum today would solve the game if there was a save on anyone besides me. Since Teacher/Wagon isn't S/S and I *should* be spewed town on a red flip. Plus protective and their confirmed.

That's a 3 a.m thought and doesn't include anything nightkill related though.

I'd be up for teacher for a compromise lynch, but only as much as I am with pretty much anyone, including you.
Gah. I've got too many townleans.
But let's not rush into a lynch; we have time yet.

Spangled · Post Post #1688 (isolation #59) » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:50 pm

Sure, I'll give you a readslist in the form of thoughts.
I'm set on town!Holden; that is my most concrete read.
NaCl and teacher are TLs for me. If I had to order them... NaCl above teacher, I think.
I'm really not sure where emps and RC and Wagonlad are for me; I would need to ISO them. If I had to order them just on what I remember about my feelings about them it'd be emps>Wagonlad>RC in towniness.
The scumlean on Kaniffee is growing still weaker, but it still exists.

In post 1289, RCEnigma wrote:Spangled should be pretty towncleared on play plus the rep out

In post 1562, RCEnigma wrote: Why is that? I actually feel the opposite way. I think Cyrus was the obvtown and Spangleds entrance kind of made me step back.

@RC
First you say I'm towncleared because of the rep out...
And later you're having doubts about me.
What's up with that?

Spangled · Post Post #1690 (isolation #60) » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:58 pm

Make a table in mafiascum, like Wagonlad's been doing for wagonomics.

Spangled · Post Post #1692 (isolation #61) » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:59 pm

In post 1691, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1688, Spangled wrote:@RC
First you say I'm towncleared because of the rep out...
And later you're having doubts about me.
What's up with that?
You had a scummy rep in. We talked about it already. The game that I linked were the tell was used was Jazz, Wagon was in that game. I was townreading both of the slots that repped out but none of the players that repped in. I just gave them a pass because of the original slots which isn't generally good play and not an example of want to set.

So yes I town read Cyrus a ton, but I'm not going to ignore your posts or neglect to sort you.

I'm not asking you to; please sort me. Not doing so would be absolutely terrible play.

...I don't know where the discussion on my rep in happened though. I'll go have a look for that.

Spangled · Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:06 pm

In post 1562, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1510, HoldenGolden wrote:@NaCl
That's fair I suppose. I think spangled cleared up some of my suspicions on the cyrus slot, so I'm not super worried about him being on the wagon with me. I can understand a RC lynch as well.

A little bit off topic, but I have a read I'm a bit wary of if i may ask you for your opinion. What do you make of emps slowdown of posts? It worries me a bit, but I still find his day one play townie
Why is that? I actually feel the opposite way. I think Cyrus was the obvtown and Spangleds entrance kind of made me step back.

You mean this post, I assume?
So we haven't discussed my rep in, other than Holden saying I cleared up his suspicions on my slot, and you saying the opposite.
Let's have an actual discussion. Show me - and the thread - what I've done that's scummy; build a case on me.

Spangled · Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:06 pm

Or don't; I'm fine with that too.

Spangled · Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:27 pm

People of the thread, can I have some advice on how to hunt scum well?
I never seem to be able to really make any proper scumreads or stick to them well - if no one is willing to give advice inthread, could you at least direct me to a guide or two?

Spangled · Post Post #1745 (isolation #65) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:51 am

In post 1696, RCEnigma wrote:We discussed it end of day 1. Your catchup wasn't revolutionary or anything. The Amished tell was weird and I've been sketched out over that but Cyrus play and the events leading up to his replace out are town indicative.

Are you fighting against my townread or what? I don't really get it.

No; I just saw something I thought was weird and asked about it.
Is that not how one should play mafia?

Spangled · Post Post #1789 (isolation #66) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:57 pm

In post 1747, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 1745, Spangled wrote:
In post 1696, RCEnigma wrote:We discussed it end of day 1. Your catchup wasn't revolutionary or anything. The Amished tell was weird and I've been sketched out over that but Cyrus play and the events leading up to his replace out are town indicative.

Are you fighting against my townread or what? I don't really get it.
No; I just saw something I thought was weird and asked about it.
Is that not how one should play mafia?
That's fine but we already had the discussion on why. Which makes it seem like you aren't really taking my posts in. Which is fine I wouldn't want to listen to me talk either.

As far as I'm aware we only just had that discussion then. But anyway.

Spangled · Post Post #1790 (isolation #67) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Ah. Great. A claim.
Absolutely bloody great.

Spangled · Post Post #1791 (isolation #68) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:03 pm

I don't like an RC lynch much.
Neither do I like a Kaniffee lynch much.
But I really, really do not like a NaCl lynch.

Spangled · Post Post #1792 (isolation #69) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:05 pm

But we need to lynch someone, so

intent to hammer in 15 hours

.

Spangled · Post Post #1793 (isolation #70) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:13 pm

In post 1783, HoldenGolden wrote:You think with the confirm towns this would be easier. I'm not really crazy about RC getting lynched.

Its werid because I can easily say any of them are scum in that pool as much as I can say they are townie (though kan is higher in my book)

I'll give intent to hammer at lunch time for me tomorrow. Ie, 12 to 14 hours. I'll give my read list before then.

Aye, I really hate the PoE pool we have at the moment.

Spangled · Post Post #1795 (isolation #71) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:17 pm

And could you tell us also who you plan on blocking if RCE flips town?

Spangled · Post Post #1797 (isolation #72) » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:35 pm

In post 1796, Wagonomics wrote:If the lynch flips town, then all that does is tell the scum which person to not have make the kill

Ahhhh.
I am dumb.

Spangled · Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:19 pm

Does this lack of activity mean that scum are happy with the lynch, and me and Holden’s intent?
Or have we caught scum?
Just the fact that we really don’t have a counterwagon has me kind of worried...
Or are scum satisfied with being caught on this one...?
Don’t reckon. Scum don’t stop fighting. I mean, maybe they do. I don’t know.

I will say, though, that I really don’t like this lynch...
But we do have to lynch someone if there’s a chance they’re scum.
And I can’t think of anyone I want flashwagoned.

Spangled · Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:14 pm

In post 1803, teacher wrote:
In post 1776, emps wrote:than if Kanifee flips scum you're looking at Spangled and Wagonomics

and if RCE flips scum we lynch NaCl

but what if NaCl/RCE isnt a scumteam?

then who do we look at?

In post 1778, emps wrote:hmm, now that im thinking it over, plan sounds good.

VOTE: RCE

pretty much RCE lynch

flip scum lynch NaCl

flip town lynch Kani

is that right teacher?
Not exactly. Pick between wagon and kani.

Based on interactions or...?

Spangled · Post Post #1830 (isolation #75) » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:51 am

In post 1829, emps wrote:wait whyd i say dont no lynch.

i meant i say we lynch.

Aye, ‘cause if we waste today with a no lynch — especially a quick, no discussion no lynch — Holden getting shot won’t tell us much.

Spangled · Post Post #1848 (isolation #76) » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:01 pm

I mean, when the magic 8-ball speaks, you really can't argue, can you?

Spangled · Post Post #1849 (isolation #77) » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:10 pm

Hey, everyone, can I just jump in between NaCl and Kaniffee?

Spangled · Post Post #1850 (isolation #78) » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:32 pm

As in, claim-wise?

Spangled · Post Post #1851 (isolation #79) » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:13 pm

Yes, no?
Green, blue?
Ah, whatever, I won't.

Spangled · Post Post #1853 (isolation #80) » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:01 pm

In post 1852, Wagonomics wrote:I'm half tempted to stop mass with kani and just push it through tbh

Push what through?

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:04 am

To be honest I’m not so sure on her any more...
But I still do like her lynch more, really, than anyone else’s...

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:05 am

And she’s never really done anything excellently towny.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:58 am

See, I kind of want to get this massclaim thing going because my role PM said was the same colour as most people’s, but had something different in it.
(Real PRs, don’t CC me).
Unless of course you don’t exist and I really am the final PR.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:59 am

In post 1858, Spangled wrote:See, I kind of want to get this massclaim thing going because my role PM was the same colour as most people’s, but had something different in it.
(Real PRs, don’t CC me).
Unless of course you don’t exist and I really am the final PR.

EBWOP.

Spangled · Post Post #1860 (isolation #85) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:00 am

Unless, scum out there reading this, I’m just a VT trying to get you to WIFOM.

Spangled · Post Post #1861 (isolation #86) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:02 am

Right now (or whoever you’re reading this), you’re probably asking yourselves, you two still out there, “is Spangled bold enough for this; is he brazen enough to say all this?”
I don’t really know, to be honest — maybe I’ve forgotten what’s in my Role PM.

Spangled · Post Post #1862 (isolation #87) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:03 am

In post 1860, Spangled wrote:Unless, scum out there reading this, I’m just a VT trying to get you to WIFOM.

And maybe I’m a PR trying not to get shot.
Tonight, you decide.
Have fun.

Spangled · Post Post #1864 (isolation #88) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:07 am

I’ll make it complete:
I could be a Tracker, or a Doc.
Or nothing in particular.
Or anything at all.

Spangled · Post Post #1865 (isolation #89) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:09 am

Greenclaim, redclaim. blueclaim.
Do people call PRs blue? They should.
I do fit the type for a PR trying not to bleed town, don’t I?
But then, cyrus bled VT.
Which of us is more genuine?
Him, obviously.

Spangled · Post Post #1866 (isolation #90) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:10 am

Unless he was 19d chess WIFOMing it.
But I am right now.

Spangled · Post Post #1867 (isolation #91) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:16 am

Of course, scum know which column we’re in; they know my role.

Spangled · Post Post #1868 (isolation #92) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:19 am

I probably should have done this earlier; it would have been funnier.
It’s MyLo right now, right?

Spangled · Post Post #1869 (isolation #93) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:22 am

Hell, what if I was a PR. That’d be a scary responsibility, to be honest.

Spangled · Post Post #1870 (isolation #94) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 am

In post 1868, Spangled wrote:I probably should have done this earlier; it would have been funnier.
It’s MyLo right now, right?

Aye, it is.
If we lynch town today and scum shoot me tonight then tomorrow has a PR and a VT versus a good and something else and scum win.
So for all my WIFOM, if we mislynch today, we lose.

Which makes Wagon’s Kaniffee half-push kind of suss, to be honest.

Spangled · Post Post #1871 (isolation #95) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:25 am

People, talk to me, about me, over my head, but don’t just stay silent.

Spangled · Post Post #1872 (isolation #96) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:26 am

In post 1870, Spangled wrote:
In post 1868, Spangled wrote:I probably should have done this earlier; it would have been funnier.
It’s MyLo right now, right?
Aye, it is.
If we lynch town today and scum shoot me tonight then tomorrow has a PR and a VT versus a goon and something else and scum win.
So for all my WIFOM, if we mislynch today, we lose.

Which makes Wagon’s Kaniffee half-push kind of suss, to be honest.

More EBWOP man I’m tired.

Spangled · Post Post #1873 (isolation #97) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:36 am

In post 1871, Spangled wrote:People, talk to me, about me, over my head, but don’t just stay silent.

I have been reading a great deal of Agatha Christie lately.
And will go to sleep now.

Spangled · Post Post #1884 (isolation #98) » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:44 am

In post 1878, emps wrote:Im VT. Popcorn Spagnled.

I’m a PR. Probably.
Nah, I’m VT.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:30 pm

In post 1896, NaCl wrote:Wait, Spangled, why did you vote for Ico day 1? I can't quite find if you said the reasoning.

Also, now I'm sort of changing my mind. Because there was a moderately decent play scum could have made earlier today and I think Wagon would have spotted it.

Did I?
I’m looking through my ISO and I can’t find any votes except that one on Kaniffee a whole back.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:34 pm

cyrus did, I’m pretty sure, and I just never unvoted.
Wow, that is sad.
I never really thought about where cyrus put *our* vote.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:36 pm

Kaniffee, I can’t see where your perspective on the scumteam being me+NaCl or emps+NaCl comes from.
What makes you think that?

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:56 pm

By the way, maybe this has been said already, but no one take a lynch to L-2 without being completely sure, ‘cause scum can quickhammer and it is game over.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:44 pm

In post 1931, NaCl wrote:Hey, Spangled, who do you think is scum?

I am all over the place right now.
I think Holden and you are town (definitely more certain of Holden than you though), which leaves Wagonlad, Kaniffee, and emps.
Out of those three, I have no idea. I guess I think we should look more at associative reads for possible partners between them than anything else, but I’m not really sure how to do that effectively.
I think I might sheep Holden though, but I do not want to be a decider on any kind of lynch; I am too uncertain of my reads right now — and probably still will be later.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:57 pm

In post 1935, HoldenGolden wrote:
In post 1934, Wagonomics wrote:So emps + kani is party solve?
Idk, prove it.

Also I'm not going to lie. My game plan this game was to get universally townread so I would die and not be in this position. Now I'm getting promoted to sheep herder?

Feels bad man.

I think that is going to be my town game plan from now on.
But you’ll probably still get to be the kill tonight.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:01 pm

Of course if we believe Kaniffee is scum, then we don’t have to worry about scum quickhammering.
But I’m not really sure.
I think I’d be more comfortable with an emps lynch first, but I don’t know...
Can an emps+Wagonlad team exist?

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:03 pm

In post 1946, Wagonomics wrote:UNVOTE:

There you go emps you can just vote now

Don’t just unvote make an argument as well.
C’mon.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:05 pm

In post 1952, emps wrote:woah you knew i like mech scum hunting?

Maybe he has done that most mystical of things; maybe he is the Kwisatz Haderach.
Maybe what the ancient mysteries say is true... maybe he has ‘meta’d’ you.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:06 pm

In post 1956, Wagonomics wrote:I'm playing wet and wild here babee

Kani was super passive early game, for a bit it reminded me of My First Game but ultimately I see that type of behavior way more from scum than from town

Beyond that doing the vote just because salt asked for the vote is kinda ehhhh

and I have a decently sized townblock in spangled + holden which means kani + emps + nacl should be 2/3 anyway and I never get scum vibes from nacl's individual posts even if abstractly his wagon position is usually where I'd think scum should be

so *shrug* why's emps better than kani if that's your argument?

See Kaniffee’s behaviour reminded me of My First Game — which was also my one and only scumgame so far, but I’ve seen that from people who are town too.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:09 pm

Thee only reason I’d like emps more is that he has rubbed me weird occasionally with his posts, whereas Kaniffee feels kind of... solid... if that makes any sense...
But teacher rubbed me wrong as well.
And scum can be honest too, and probably more are conventionally “honest” than town.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:11 pm

In post 1967, HoldenGolden wrote:So we are all basically suspecting kaniffee at this point yes?

I think so.
Which makes me a little uncomfortable; it means someone has to be bussing.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:21 pm

In post 1971, Wagonomics wrote:tonereads are important

which posts ping you spangled?

Mostly posts around the prospective cyrus wagon, and lots of his interactions with cyrus sometimes feel weird.
Also he’s actually got an absolute ton of fluffposts in that mess.
But skimming over I can’t really find some of the specific pings that I felt like I’d seen.
Hm. Maybe a Kaniffee lynch would be better.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:23 pm

In post 1980, emps wrote:well, for the mindset, today all scum needs is one mislynch right? he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says "vote emps first" he hasnt really even been sussing me in the first place, and thats why i think its scummy. however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"

hes trying to push the lynch onto me, because all he needs is one mislynch before he has the game.

pedit : no im not

Going against the town isn’t necessarily SI, emps.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:27 pm

In post 1981, HoldenGolden wrote:
In post 498, Kaniffee wrote:
In post 492, cyrus62 wrote:
In post 490, Kaniffee wrote:I think in that moment saying either doc or cop would've been reasonable. To me there's no reason why cop and why not doc. It could've been either for town!Cyrus.
With the second point are you implying that a doctor would try to protect Cyrus(assuming there is one)?
keep in mind i was reading a book and then notist this queston i was hoping that since every one thought i soft pr that if i draw the night kill that the doc might save me if there was one
Hmm okay. So at this point either you actually are the cop or you're not the cop (because you're either scum or vt). No matter which way you slice it this was really bad strategy. However it seems more like you're panicking because you don't want to be lynched or NK then like you're actually a cop. I guess this is more scummy or PR than not, but considering how nervous you've been throughout this game I think you would do this as a vt too. I'm debating voting based on lynch all liars at this point, but I believe you're still L-1, and it seems too early to end the day at this point.
Kaniffee confusion over cyrus also feels for grounds to throw away that team. So unless springfleg is super super good scum, I do not really see any viable teams he can be on.

I think next time I roll scum, I might try not looking at the part of the Role PM with the partner on it and try and interact at least a few times with everyone in D1 before ever looking at the PT.
But then I might later have to try and go back on a read in a non-scummy way, and that’d be hard.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:30 pm

In post 1986, emps wrote:
In post 1984, Spangled wrote:
In post 1980, emps wrote:well, for the mindset, today all scum needs is one mislynch right? he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says "vote emps first" he hasnt really even been sussing me in the first place, and thats why i think its scummy. however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"

hes trying to push the lynch onto me, because all he needs is one mislynch before he has the game.

pedit : no im not
Going against the town isn’t necessarily SI, emps.
i was saying you were too scared to go against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani.

Quotes, in order:
‘he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says “vote emps first”’
‘however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"’
‘[Spangled was] too scared to against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani’
haha yes that all jives and makes sense together; that totally displays a consistent mindset haha yes you’re town emps lolololol

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:33 pm

In post 1994, Spangled wrote:
In post 1986, emps wrote:
In post 1984, Spangled wrote:
In post 1980, emps wrote:well, for the mindset, today all scum needs is one mislynch right? he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says "vote emps first" he hasnt really even been sussing me in the first place, and thats why i think its scummy. however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"

hes trying to push the lynch onto me, because all he needs is one mislynch before he has the game.

pedit : no im not
Going against the town isn’t necessarily SI, emps.
i was saying you were too scared to go against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani.
Quotes, in order:
‘he goes back on his main SR/SL [Kaniffee], and says “vote emps first”’
‘however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read [of Kaniffee], while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"’
‘[Spangled was] too scared to against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani’

haha yes that all jives and makes sense together; that totally displays a consistent mindset haha yes you’re town emps lolololol

EBWOP

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:37 pm

In post 1998, emps wrote:
In post 1994, Spangled wrote:
In post 1986, emps wrote:
In post 1984, Spangled wrote:
In post 1980, emps wrote:well, for the mindset, today all scum needs is one mislynch right? he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says "vote emps first" he hasnt really even been sussing me in the first place, and thats why i think its scummy. however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"

hes trying to push the lynch onto me, because all he needs is one mislynch before he has the game.

pedit : no im not
Going against the town isn’t necessarily SI, emps.
i was saying you were too scared to go against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani.
Quotes, in order:
‘he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says “vote emps first”’
‘however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"’
‘[Spangled was] too scared to against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani’
haha yes that all jives and makes sense together; that totally displays a consistent mindset haha yes you’re town emps lolololol
i meant goes back as in, is no longer your main SR/SL, if kani was your main SR/SL back then you wouldnt have said "im more confortable with a emps lynch"

If I’m scum, isn’t Kaniffee a much easier mislynch than you? Everyone suspects them at this point.

Spangled · Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:50 pm

In post 2005, emps wrote:
In post 2004, Spangled wrote:
In post 1998, emps wrote:
In post 1994, Spangled wrote:
In post 1986, emps wrote:
In post 1984, Spangled wrote:
In post 1980, emps wrote:well, for the mindset, today all scum needs is one mislynch right? he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says "vote emps first" he hasnt really even been sussing me in the first place, and thats why i think its scummy. however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"

hes trying to push the lynch onto me, because all he needs is one mislynch before he has the game.

pedit : no im not
Going against the town isn’t necessarily SI, emps.
i was saying you were too scared to go against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani.
Quotes, in order:
‘he goes back on his main SR/SL, and says “vote emps first”’
‘however, he thinks its too scummy to go back on his read, while also going against all of town, so he says "im more comfortable with a emps lynch"’
‘[Spangled was] too scared to against the town by going back on your SR/SL on Kani’
haha yes that all jives and makes sense together; that totally displays a consistent mindset haha yes you’re town emps lolololol
i meant goes back as in, is no longer your main SR/SL, if kani was your main SR/SL back then you wouldnt have said "im more confortable with a emps lynch"
If I’m scum, isn’t Kaniffee a much easier mislynch than you? Everyone suspects them at this point.
im saying if you are scum, you are scum with Kani. Kani might not be a mislynch, but you are trying to divert the vote onto me, get me mislynched and win.

What about if Kaniffee is scum?
Say we lynch them today and they flip red - am I scum? Do you think I should be instalynched?

Spangled · Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:29 pm

Aye, the barrel is shooting me and the fish is the spotter for the artillery.

Spangled · Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:41 pm

In post 2047, HoldenGolden wrote:
In post 2046, Spangled wrote:Aye, the barrel is shooting me and the fish is the spotter for the artillery.
First mate springfleg, status report. What says you about the current state of mylo

I don't know.
I don't really like the PoE we've got, and I'm not sure if a pinkie promise is enough, cap'n.
I can see scum!Kaniffee but I'm worried that I'm not right.
...But then she's L-2 and hasn't been quickhammered so...

Spangled · Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:42 pm

I can also see scum!emps but after looking back at him I really don't know...
I'd like some meta I can rely on, but it is the Newbie Queue after all.

Spangled · Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:41 pm

I dinnae know if I can do it, cap'n.
But I will do my best.

Who is on the Kaniffee wagon other than you?

Spangled · Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:45 pm

I want more activity from Kaniffee.
Maybe how they aren’t defending themselves in case they slip up or reveal a partner shows further scum mindset?
Probably NAI if they’re actually V/LA though, and we have to accept that they are without further information.

Spangled · Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:39 pm

In post 2090, emps wrote:quite a few scumteams? so its bastard, as well as multiball?

Quite a few that are possible.
Generally when talking to people, emps, I try my hardest not to misrep them.
Scum often don't.

Spangled · Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:10 pm

I kind of want to hammer Kaniffee.
But Saltylad is right, we should hear more from her.

Spangled · Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:22 pm

Assuming Kaniffee flips scum, who do you think is her partner, Wagonlad?

Spangled · Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:08 pm

It can be a bit of a slog, posting. However, not all games are like this; not all games have spammers at the start. It is hard playing scum, but I thought you did well. I'd advise you to try at least another game; you may find playing town a good deal more fun.
Sorry about this, but I will VOTE: Kaniffee

Spangled · Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:06 pm

In post 2110, Wagonomics wrote:Pretty sure spangled just dies tonight but it's usually correct to NL here and go to 3s

But it really doesn’t help town if I die.

Spangled · Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:08 pm

I think I might go and ISO everyone.

Spangled · Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:30 pm

I did not do that.
But I’m feeling emps > wagon/salt.

Spangled · Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:26 pm

Seeing as I’m not as widely TRed as I thought and that emps’ level of being scumread is satisfactory to me, though, I’m happy for a No Lynch today.

Spangled · Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:47 am

Away, then, we go.

Spangled · Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:09 am

I was kind of hoping to die, aye.
But what was certain is that emps would not die; being the most heavily suspected he’s either scum or a person scum want to keep around.
Bah. LyLo is scary.

Spangled · Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:52 pm

In post 2130, emps wrote:huh isnt that funny the one person having doubts about me being scum is also dead

Actually, that is weird.
Motives for killing NaCl, from the three of us:
emps - makes extensive and elaborate WIFOM - but that's weak; I don't know if emps' scumgame is that good but after all who knows
Wagon - Also makes elaborate and extensive WIFOM; Wagon was NaCl's highest TR.
Myself - I and emps were being wavered around by him; it removes the only person top-tier scumreading me, even if I share that slot.

Crap. My motive is the most.
Which actually makes this a clever move from either of you; it makes me the clear lynch choice for today just based on priorities yesterday.
But after all, for me to do that would be borderline stupid; it points straight to me. I think I'd be more likely to go for emps, actually, especially since Wagon said

In post 2112, Wagonomics wrote:I'll probably reread if I am alive in 3-way, I think holden had a decent argument for salt scum at one point

and I would just let Wagon push for a salt lynch and quickhammer as soon as he cast a vote.

Spangled · Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:10 pm

Thoughts?

Spangled · Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:51 pm

In post 2148, emps wrote:well, if one of you two died it would be obvious that id vote the other, NaCl was my strongest TR after all.

if wagon were scum i really dont see why he wouldnt NK spangled then push me though.

i think this is scum!spangled who isnt confident enough in his scumplay to pull off a Wagon NK or a me NK

although NKing me would be like super weird?

No, it would not.
Wagon had me as town, and expressed willingness to look back at NaCl.
I would have pushed a NaCl lynch with him.

Spangled · Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:55 pm

All this NK gets me is being suspected above both of you.

Spangled · Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:03 pm

He is erratic. That's him, in a word.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the first time you've seen proper pressure actually put on him?

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:21 am

In post 2181, emps wrote:
In post 2177, Wagonomics wrote:And if cyrus can be read as town based on his weird tone, then Emps is scum through PoE... so where am I wrong in my assessment emps? Why does cyrus aim for a forcereplace on ico for confusing his games rather than just trying to lynch him?
Cyrus/Red are accusing him of cheating and underhanded play. I think its NAI.

If you reread more of the early game, i obvtowned sooo hard. There is no way, from your point of view i am scummier than spangled.

But just look at my interactions with Kaniffee.
Actually look at them.

And you didn’t obvtown, not really — but I’m not willing to set aside scum!Wagon yet.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:39 pm

In post 64, Wagonomics wrote:Wait no one can accept my bet if I'm investing 75 coins

Let me adjust

Wagonomics offers a bet that Wagonomics will be dead by the start of day 3 -- 10 wagoncoins
Wagonomics offers a bet that emps and kanifee are not scum together -- 10 wagoncoins

So now I'm only floating 5 coins, but I might take down one bet if no one wants to take

Do you remember this, Wagonlad, emps?
It’s funny to me in this situation.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:41 pm

In post 217, Wagonomics wrote:No one has confirmed they are taking me up on the bets (although theoretically the "100 coin" bet with Holden I would take in a heartbeat but I refuse to just straight up take his money like that)

I'm at:
Towncore - emps / cyrus62

Townlean with reservations: HoldenGolden

Null/town: NaCl

Wide PoE/Null:
Teacher (SE)
Jackal711 (SE)
Kaniffee
RedFlavor (SE)

Going to invest throughout my PoE

WAGONS
V
A
L
U
E
INVESTOR

Jackal711 - Scum
5
Wagonomics

RedFlavor - Scum
30
Cyrus

NaCL - Scum
30
Cyrus

Emps - Town
40
Cyrus

Emps - Town
30
Wagonomics

Cyrus - Town
40
Wagonomics

Wagonomics - Town
69
emps

Cyrus - Town
5
emps

teacher - Town
5
emps

Holden - Town
5
emps

Emps - Town
80
RedFlavor

RedFlavor - Scum
5
Wagonomics

Kaniffee - Scum
5
Wagonomics

Teacher - Scum
5
Wagonomics

I'm liking recent posts but still want to see more town!Nako spiciness

This also funny to me, especially emps’ bets.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:52 pm

In post 758, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 579, Kaniffee wrote:Okay time to read some people.[wall post]
579 would be townie but it doesn't actually lead into a vote

As far as I can tell this slot has not voted

Which is one of the reasons the game is zzz

makes it harder to read you and makes your analysis feel toothless

A ton of Wagon’s interactions with Kani feel genuine, this is a good example, but 476 and 1546 and 1583.

1759 is a bit weird...
1852 is so off-hand I’m trying to decide if it’s partner-indicative or not... Frick...
1902 is good analysis of neap, does it prove anything...?

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:53 pm

In post 2191, Spangled wrote:
In post 758, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 579, Kaniffee wrote:Okay time to read some people.[wall post]
579 would be townie but it doesn't actually lead into a vote

As far as I can tell this slot has not voted

Which is one of the reasons the game is zzz

makes it harder to read you and makes your analysis feel toothless
A ton of Wagon’s interactions with Kani feel genuine, this is a good example, but 476 and 1546 and 1583 are also good.

1759 is a bit weird...
1852 is so off-hand I’m trying to decide if it’s partner-indicative or not... Frick...
1902 is good analysis of neap, does it prove anything...?

EBWOP

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:54 pm

In post 2190, Wagonomics wrote:although emps opening the game with a softbus might explain why kani kinda disliked this game?

That is very weak. Kaniffee might just not be the kind of person that likes mafia; you can’t read into someone who literally has

no

meta.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:56 pm

ISO of Wagon complete, and it hasn’t told me much...
I definitely feel like Kaniffee + emps makes a better team than Wagon + emps, though...
Gonna go ISO emps.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:59 pm

Not Wagon + emps, Wagon + Kaniffee.
Also Wagon’s towncore in 217 is also hilarious.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:06 pm

9 is sketchy.
Also 14 and 18 and 20 are just defining terms, and as an early-game activity that’s far more SI than null. Not much, but something.
21 puts them in a position of ‘helpfulness’, as well. I think I’m reading too much into it though.
...and 30 and 33

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:07 pm

Whoops, accidentally hit submit. I’ll finish skimming.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:58 pm

In post 2215, emps wrote:i also do feel wagonlad would be someone who would def fakeclaim PR in C2.

At least that we are agreed on.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:59 pm

In post 2209, emps wrote:
In post 1405, Xtoxm wrote:
VC 1.FINAL
[5]
Iconeum:
RCEnigma,[/color] Spangled, Wagonomics,
teacher,
Kaniffee
(Lynch)

[1]
RCEnigma
:
emps

[1] Spangled:

Iconeum

[1]
teacher:
NaCl[/color]

[1] Not Voting:

HoldenGolden

The Day 1 deadline is in
: (expired on 2019-07-07 21:00:00)
teacher said if scum hammers the scumbuddy is usually on wagon.

guess whos on wagon? Spangled and Wagon.

Guess who you’re talking to? Spangled and Wagon.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:01 pm

In post 2205, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 2199, emps wrote:im assuming obvtowning means UTR? because thats what i was before you discredited me.
actually I think being obvtown and universally townread are distinct, although explaining the distinction does seem kinda tricky

I think obvtown can often be scumread, I guess is what it comes down to

like people in dead threads will often say people are obvtown while that "obvtown" player is being lynched

and scum can often be universally town read

so yeah pretty different

Yeah, and obvtown can be LHF because they’re obvtown by virtue of being LHF.
And scum can be UTR — as I’m coming to suspect in this situation.

If emps votes me and wagon votes him (which seems to be the way it’s going), that’s the equivalent of a hammertest for me.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:03 pm

In post 2206, emps wrote:
VC 1.2
[4] cyrus62:
emps,
NaCl, HoldenGolden, Jackal711

(L-1)

[1]
NaCl
:
cyrus62

[1]
Jackal711
:
Wagonomics

[1]
Kaniffee
:

teacher

[2] Not Voting:

Kaniffee
,
RedFlavor

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in
: (expired on 2019-07-06 06:00:00)

heavily indicates one of spangled/I are scum

unless somehow we got an all-town wagon early on in the game on a townie?

Seeing as cyrus didn’t actually get lynched, that’s entirely possible.

This also precludes that you are town.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:07 pm

In post 2209, emps wrote:
In post 1405, Xtoxm wrote:
VC 1.FINAL
[5]
Iconeum:
RCEnigma,[/color] Spangled, Wagonomics,
teacher,
Kaniffee
(Lynch)

[1]
RCEnigma
:
emps

[1] Spangled:

Iconeum

[1]
teacher:
NaCl[/color]

[1] Not Voting:

HoldenGolden

The Day 1 deadline is in
: (expired on 2019-07-07 21:00:00)
teacher said if scum hammers the scumbuddy is usually on wagon.

guess whos on wagon? Spangled and Wagon.

the post from earlier shows that it is likely between Spangled and I, and this post shows scum is also likely between Spangled/Wagonomics.

In post 2210, emps wrote:
In post 1821, Xtoxm wrote:
VC 2.FINAL
[5]
RCEnigma:
teacher, NaCl[/color], emps,
Kaniffee,

HoldenGolden

(Lynch)

[2]
NaCl:
RCEnigma[/color], Wagonomics

[1]
Kaniffee:
Spangled

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in
: (expired on 2019-07-16 19:17:46)
using 1 scum on, 1 scum off, its between Spangled/Wagon on this one.

1 scum on 1 scum off is an assumption that nothing can support. It is foolish to take it as a given... unless there’s some Theory of Mafia I haven’t seen that suggests that it’s always the case?

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:09 pm

In post 2216, emps wrote:cyrus did try to discredit Holden and NaCl early game tho

cyrus is perhaps the most erratic person I have perhaps ever seen. His thoughts were flying everywhere, and few good.
But him doubting people isn’t necessarily trying to discredit them.

Especially if this was his first scum game — I find that people’s first scumgames are often very passive; mine was.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:17 pm

In post 2200, emps wrote:
In post 2198, Wagonomics wrote:
tbh this is kinda me with spangled

Funny, that’s how I feel about you emps. Especially with your massive post-count.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:25 pm

In post 2203, emps wrote:
In post 2196, Spangled wrote:9 is sketchy.
Also 14 and 18 and 20 are just defining terms, and as an early-game activity that’s far more SI than null. Not much, but something.
21 puts them in a position of ‘helpfulness’, as well. I think I’m reading too much into it though.
...and 30 and 33
its sketchy for me to try to help people out?

Well, it gives you activity without actually helping town much...
And it puts you in a position of ‘helpfulness’, like I said; it makes people instinctively TR you because you have helped them.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:28 pm

In post 2224, Wagonomics wrote:
If emps votes me and wagon votes him (which seems to be the way it’s going), that’s the equivalent of a hammertest for me.
Not exactly, or at least not as you described. If emps voted you and I didn't hammer, fypov I'm already conftown so you not hammering emps if I voted him in that scenario would be lowkey throwing.

The hammertest is whoever is not voter/votee in lylo

Aye, but if it happened the other way round — if you voted emps and I didn’t hammer, I would be conf!town. Not sure why I included emps voting me there.

I’m not sure how confident I am in town!Wagon. I mean, if I was confident enough in town!him to hammertest him by voting emps, I’d just vote emps and be done with it, because if I was wrong I’d lose either way.
I’m really not sure what to do in this situation.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:38 pm

In post 1800, Xtoxm wrote:
VC 2.4
[4]
RCEnigma
:

teacher
,
NaCl
, emps,
Kaniffee

(L-1)

[2]
Kaniffee
:
Spangled, Wagonomics

[1]
NaCl
:

RCEnigma

[1] Not voting:

HoldenGolden

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

The Day 2 deadline is in
: (expired on 2019-07-16 19:17:46)

This paints an interesting picture.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:05 pm

...Not going to give your thoughts on anything else, Wagon?

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:13 pm

But then again, NaCl was the only person who didn’t have emps as their top scumread.
But then again, I can really see you as someone who goes for a PR claim of neap; it would be incredibly smart as a gambit, and we’d have no reason to doubt you.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:21 pm

True that.
Some NKA should probably be done.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:25 pm

Crap. Looked at NKs, and NaCl’s is the only one to analyse.
First nothing, then teacher (who had claimed), then Holden.
Only NaCl’s death is the one that isn’t the obvious move.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:29 pm

This is a very funny situation.
If emps is scum, I don’t know why he’s not pushing for a Wagon lynch.

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:30 pm

Maybe he just considers me an easier target than Wagon?

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:31 pm

In post 2233, Wagonomics wrote:Man I must love killing people that townread me, holden and salt back to back

Then again, pretty sure Holden and teacher TRed emps, so...

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:32 pm

Tell me, Wagon, what would you have done in a you/emps/NaCl LyLo?
emps, what about you?

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:57 pm

In post 2239, Spangled wrote:Tell me, Wagon, what would you have done in a you/emps/NaCl LyLo?
emps, what about you?

@Wagonlad

Spangled · Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:37 pm

Woah I was scared there for a second when I saw you had last posted Xtoxm. I thought that it was because the other two had lynched me. Gee...

Wagonlad, emps, still awaiting answers.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:05 am

You know, Wagon can’t really be scum. He has no reason to be pushing emps. Going into the day, he might as well have ‘realised’ that I could be scum and pushed me with emps, for a fairly easy win.
So.
Let’s end this one way or another.
Consider this a hammertest, or if you’re sure emps is scum, vote.
VOTE: emps

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:48 am

In post 2248, emps wrote:
In post 2231, Spangled wrote:But then again, NaCl was the only person who didn’t have emps as their top scumread.
But then again, I can really see you as someone who goes for a PR claim of neap; it would be incredibly smart as a gambit, and we’d have no reason to doubt you.
What the fuck? Claiming neap with a flipped JK?

Thats not a smart move...

Yeah, no, I got weird ideas around what teacher flipped from some discussion earlier, or something... All I know is we had a discussion around claiming Neap, and its’ benefits compared to claiming other things, in-thread.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:49 am

In post 2245, emps wrote:
In post 2243, Spangled wrote:Woah I was scared there for a second when I saw you had last posted Xtoxm. I thought that it was because the other two had lynched me. Gee...

Wagonlad, emps, still awaiting answers.
This seems fake.

Nope, it was me checking the thread and being scared out of my life.
What benefit do I get from posting it anyway?

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:53 am

In post 2254, Wagonomics wrote:Honestly as either alignment

In post 2250, emps wrote:wow i was right on the kani/spangled team

This also feels fake.
Two can play at the name-calling game, emps.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:54 am

Whoops, multiquoted. 2250, not 2254.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:05 am

You know, it’s funny that everyone who thought cyrus was obvtown is dead. Very strange.
emps pushed him the entire game, but there were never quite enough people.
And so he let cyrus be cyrus, and do weird, sometimes sketchy-looking things, newb!towning it all the way, and undermined cyrus’ support base by killing them of so he could get me lynched in LyLo, with one of the few people who had never expressed that they thought cyrus was obvtown.

Or maybe that just happened along the way, and it was all chance that everyone who had cyrus as their highest townread is dead.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:06 am

In fact, Wagon, if you love killing people who TR you, I love even more the death of people who TR me, through lynch or NK.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:15 am

In post 2260, Spangled wrote:In fact, Wagon, if you love killing people who TR you, I love even more the death of people who TR me, through lynch or NK.

I must just bask in it; think Smaug.

Spoiler:

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:17 am

In post 2261, Wagonomics wrote:Scum kill targets:
N1 -- Holden
N2 -- Teacher (forced, PR)
N3 -- Holden
N4 -- NaCL

Why do you think Holden was the n1? Just cause he was townread?

He was

very

heavily townread...
I can’t see any other motive.
Might check his D1 ISO.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:29 am

Well, at the end of D1 he was starting to very heavily doubt scum!cyrus/me, and he was beginning to think about scum!Kaniffee, I think...
But the first bit is paranoia; the idea that the scumteam had a master plan to take me to LyLo and discredit me there rings of a conspiracy theory.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:31 am

But that whole theory is built on — you know, what if emps had brought Holden to LyLo instead of me — he’d be dead quick.
In fact, why didn’t I do that if I’m scum?
Why would I kill off Holden, who was pretty much hard-TRing me?

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:34 am

Why would I engineer this LyLo, one of the worst for me out of pretty much all combinations?
Many combinations, especially ones involving Holden, would be pretty much an instant win for me.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:38 am

You need to think, Wagon — not just about now, but about what got us to this situation, especially the death of Holden. I had no reason to kill him — none at all.
As scum I could have gone first for you, then for NaCl, and it would be an easy win for me with Holden at my side.
I can’t be scum; if I’m scum I’m clever enough to get hard-TRed by the UTR, but not clever enough to bring said UTR to LyLo.

It really cannot be both ways.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:02 pm

In post 2276, Wagonomics wrote:I still kinda just want to hammer emps even though going for spangled over me here is uhhhh an interesting choice

In post 2295, Wagonomics wrote:kk

You just reminded me that this would be functionally Spangled's first scum game, and that she therefore entered the game hard bussing her buddy in an unstable gamestate

Anyway, 1.2 doesn't mean much to me, EoD1 kinda doesn't fit Teacher's argument because kani was specifically asked to hammer, which means she knew she shouldn't be heavily suspected for the hammer.

You're right that EoD2 doesn't match usual patterns of 1 on and 1 off but that doesn't really convince me more than the extent that Spangled would have hard-bussed vs. you soft-bussing awkwardly early game

I am a he.
Also, this is almost my first scumgame; my first game was also as scum, in which I played very passively until I CC’ed JK against a cop with a guilty on my partner.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:04 pm

Multiquote strikes again.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:08 pm

In post 2274, emps wrote:honestly thats a scumslip because Kani was unsure about whether or not a neap claim was possible, and you dont seem to be so sure either, so she had to ask in thread.

...That is the least decisive kind of scumslip I’ve ever seen.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:09 pm

In post 2314, emps wrote:
In post 2312, Spangled wrote:
In post 2276, Wagonomics wrote:I still kinda just want to hammer emps even though going for spangled over me here is uhhhh an interesting choice

In post 2295, Wagonomics wrote:kk

You just reminded me that this would be functionally Spangled's first scum game, and that she therefore entered the game hard bussing her buddy in an unstable gamestate

Anyway, 1.2 doesn't mean much to me, EoD1 kinda doesn't fit Teacher's argument because kani was specifically asked to hammer, which means she knew she shouldn't be heavily suspected for the hammer.

You're right that EoD2 doesn't match usual patterns of 1 on and 1 off but that doesn't really convince me more than the extent that Spangled would have hard-bussed vs. you soft-bussing awkwardly early game
I am a he.
Also,
this is almost my first scumgame
; my first game was also as scum, in which I played very passively until I CC’ed JK against a cop with a guilty on my partner.
scumslip much????

You know what I meant. We were talking within the theoretical possibility of me being scum.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:11 pm

As in, if I was scum, this would not quite be my first scumgame.
Y’all know what I meant; ‘twas a slip of the tongue (as it were).
A slip of the keyboard, if you will.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:12 pm

If we lose this because you accept it as a scum slip, Wagon, I am going to be incredibly NaCl-y at myself.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:17 pm

In post 2315, Wagonomics wrote:which is that first scum game, 1936?

Pretty sure. Town had a terrible first day, too, but IIRC all the rep-ins made an incredibly good town.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:20 pm

In post 2322, Spangled wrote:
In post 2315, Wagonomics wrote:which is that first scum game, 1936?
Pretty sure. Town had a terrible first day, too, but IIRC all the rep-ins made an incredibly good town.

No, 1931.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:25 pm

In post 2323, Spangled wrote:
In post 2322, Spangled wrote:
In post 2315, Wagonomics wrote:which is that first scum game, 1936?
Pretty sure. Town had a terrible first day, too, but IIRC all the rep-ins made an incredibly good town.
No, 1931.

@Wagon
It was 1931, sorry.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:26 pm

In post 2325, Wagonomics wrote:viewtopic.php?t=79597&f=50&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

pretty sure this as precedent in scum meta should push spangled more town, although I'm still smiling bemusedly at 2312 which is probably the funniest post I've seen all week

What is that post saying, sorry?

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:29 pm

In post 2333, emps wrote:If it was D2 then

Cop gets lynched

Go to lylo, spangled gets lynched

Go to 3p, scumbuddy gets lynched.

Spangled always loses lol

It was D2, I think, but the tracker got modkilled because they accidentally PMed everyone their action, rather than just the mod. So it was MyLo.
I 1v1ed with the cop, but he had been UTRed pretty much the entire game, so my buddy got lynched, then me.

Spangled · Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:19 pm

You know what we both forgot, emps?
/bet however many coins I have on scum!emps

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:27 am

In post 2336, Spangled wrote:You know what we both forgot, emps?
/bet however many coins I have on scum!emps

Y’know, other people being conf!town kind of breaks the system with investments.

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:21 am

In post 2340, emps wrote:why is this place so dead

do we like even have much more to discuss?

Not really; not between you and me at least.
Certainly both of us would talk to Wagon, if he was around.

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:29 pm

In post 2346, Wagonomics wrote: -Maybe cyrus got upset that he was going to be outed by cheating? in any case, maybe this was a legitimate scum overreaction?

Town can overreact too — and cyrus

is

the kind to have such an overreaction, with his snap-suspicions and snap-thoughts that he feels the need to act on; these come naturally to him.

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:31 pm

In post 2355, emps wrote:also cyrus tried to shade nacl/holden early game.

Tried to shade?
The ‘shade’ he threw at NaCl was practically at your direction.
(Okay, maybe that’s going too far, but if you didn’t incite him to it, you certainly instigated it).

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:32 pm

In post 2350, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 2348, Wagonomics wrote: Spangled scum:
-Maybe cyrus got upset that he was going to be outed by cheating? in any case, maybe this was a legitimate scum overreaction?
-Spangled also claimed scum :3
-I think RCE maybe thought that commenting on your predecessor during a replace in is scummy? But uhhh,
-Spangled tends to do more organized lists early in the game as scum, and he did an organized list this game
oh yeah and as emps mentioned one or two vcs maybe fit conventional scum patterns a bit better for spangled scum?
oh right, the salt kill also makes a lot more sense for scum!Spangled than emps, who probably wants to kill spangled last night

Other than the fact that it makes

quality

WIFOM.
And if he had gone for me, then NaCl would have turned on him anyway, seeing as for NaCl scum was between me and him.

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:29 pm

In post 2359, Spangled wrote:
In post 2350, Wagonomics wrote:
In post 2348, Wagonomics wrote: Spangled scum:
-Maybe cyrus got upset that he was going to be outed by cheating? in any case, maybe this was a legitimate scum overreaction?
-Spangled also claimed scum :3
-I think RCE maybe thought that commenting on your predecessor during a replace in is scummy? But uhhh,
-Spangled tends to do more organized lists early in the game as scum, and he did an organized list this game
oh yeah and as emps mentioned one or two vcs maybe fit conventional scum patterns a bit better for spangled scum?
oh right, the salt kill also makes a lot more sense for scum!Spangled than emps, who probably wants to kill spangled last night
Other than the fact that it makes
quality
WIFOM.
And if he had gone for me, then NaCl would have turned on him anyway, seeing as for NaCl scum was between me and him.

@Wagonlad

Spangled · Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:58 pm

Wagon I feel ignored

WAGONS	V A L U E	INVESTOR
Jackal711 - Scum	5	Wagonomics
RedFlavor - Scum	30	Cyrus
NaCL - Scum	30	Cyrus
Emps - Town	40	Cyrus
Emps - Town	30	Wagonomics
Cyrus - Town	40	Wagonomics
Wagonomics - Town	69	emps
Cyrus - Town	5	emps
teacher - Town	5	emps
Holden - Town	5	emps
Emps - Town	80	RedFlavor
RedFlavor - Scum	5	Wagonomics
Kaniffee - Scum	5	Wagonomics
Teacher - Scum	5	Wagonomics