Newbie 2114: Life Imitates Art...in Memes! -- End

[DragonEater70]

Here's the link:

viewtopic.php?p=13650527#p13650527

whatever this link was for, i skimmed through it and i actually really liked it. i'll keep this bookmarked for other stuff i'll talk about

Lol I posted a wrong link though

[DragonEater70]

I basically quoted now another game where I as town openly admitted to doing something very scummy (ignoring someone's explanations for their actions where I previously conceded that these explanations were valid).

[DragonEater70]

I kinda forgot what I was tryong to prove by doing that though. Whoops.

[DragonEater70]

Then why are you scumreading me? I thought it was for limming Alisae, now I'm confused.

i'm scumreading you for reasons mentioned in the first part of my 1360. in other words,

Spoiler:

I genuinely think 1208 is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.

except replace kanna with patch. and then it's perfect

Huh.
I think you both are reading way too much into what I was saying. It IS possible there were 0 scum on the D1 wagon for instance, I just think it would've been very weird for that to happen, because the way I see it (in general, not just this game) scum have to WORK in order to get town to miselim, and I thought the person who worked hardest to get Aureal limmed was actually Alisae.

But now I'm realizing that's not even true because I was telling Alisae that they were avoiding the Aureal wagon in 1147.

Anyway the point was that I was speculating two scum on the wagon, I didn't know it, it just made sense to me because I knew 2 town off the wagon for sure so it felt highly unlikely that both scum were just off wagon and letting us tear each other apart.
But evidently it is a possibility because Aureal V Alisae ended up being TvT.

this was your response. i think i understand this one? if i'm understanding correctly, it's like you thought there was probably a wolf on wagon because most people were town off wagon and on wagon it was probably alisae? if that's the case, i feel like the normal way people would think to type this would be "i think it's alisae because they were pushing the lim" and not go through the loophole of doing wagon analysis and stuff. idk, it doesn't seem natural &_& let me think on this one for a bit again

Yeah I guess it sounds more natutal/soft that way but when I play Mafia I don't always say things in a neutral soft way.
I'll try to find the link shortly but in my first game here when I was town I admitted that I had conceded a point and then went back to chase it again. It probably doesn't sound the most genuine but it's what I did anyway.

Oh I guess I was trying to explain that I don't always come off very natural sounding even as town.

[DragonEater70]

now for the things i find scummy about you, dragon. i have rehabilitated myself and i will try to give you the benefit of the doubt, however i will still point out the things here i can't quite explain

the tmi thing. this was alisae's case back on d2

I genuinely think 1208 is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.

for reference, this was your original post:

don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though

It is Alisae.
The evidence is this:
Both Andante and Aureal weren't voting Aureal, so there was at least 1 scum on the wagon. I honestly think it was 2, because if Aureal was indeed town then there's really no reason to suspect Elpis, and very little reason to suspect bewollt.
So again, probably 2 scum on the wagon, and it's not me or Kawaii. From your POV it's not you either so ot must be Alisae and Kanna.
Furthermore, Alisae was seriously powerwolfing yesterday ever since she joined. I can't believe she's a VT after she led this miselim. That would require us to have thw most passive mafia that ever existed, and I kinda doubt that.
Third point, mafia killed Andante who was the main person suspecting Alisae.

i still feel this is extremely weird -- i don't consider myself stupid but i couldn't understand this at the time and reading back now, i'm still not sure i do.

Aureal (5): Alisae, KawaiiKame, Kanna, DragonEater70, patchwork -- ELIM
Kanna (1): bewolkt
Alisae (1): Aureal


Not Voting (2): Elpis, Andante

so according to you, andante and aureal weren't voting aureal... um yes, but neither were bewo and elpis? how did you get to there was at least one scum on wagon? and then why would you say it was 2 and also there was little reason to suspect bewo? bewo wasn't related to aureal i think? the rest... idk i got lost again that i can't even ask questions anymore. i skimmed over it at the time, but after alisae pointed it out, i do think it makes the most sense you're actually wolf with tmi knowledge that there were 2 wolves on the wagon (which i would believe to be you/patch) and most of this is just word salad to at least put up a front that there are facts that alisae is likely wolf from the aureal lim. from a solving perspective, i don't think i could ever write up or even think to do something like this? it's way too weird and complicated

So this is not TMI. If anything it's too little infirmation .
Like I honestly don't understand how this can be construed as me having information which you guys don't. I tend to be very confident when I say things, so it seemed natural to me to say that I think there was at least 1 scum on the wagon. But you are right that it could've been Elpis and bewolkt. I mean right bow I know for sure that bewolkt was off wagon and was scum, so I was wrong. Therefore I had too little information, not too much.

[DragonEater70]

I would like to ask you a sincere question Kanna, from townie to townie. Have you ever seen a "TMI slip" prove itself as a read? Or is reading it only something you've seen the pros doing so you are copying it?

Because in my first game for instance patch "TMI slipped" knowing that there wasn't a roleblocker, but he was VT. The real scum also TMI slipped kn the existence of a rolecop, except there wasn't even a rolecop in the setup. So I don't think these slips are indicative of anything at all.

[DragonEater70]

Then why are you scumreading me? I thought it was for limming Alisae, now I'm confused.

i'm scumreading you for reasons mentioned in the first part of my 1360. in other words,

Spoiler:

I genuinely think 1208 is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.

except replace kanna with patch. and then it's perfect

Huh.
I think you both are reading way too much into what I was saying. It IS possible there were 0 scum on the D1 wagon for instance, I just think it would've been very weird for that to happen, because the way I see it (in general, not just this game) scum have to WORK in order to get town to miselim, and I thought the person who worked hardest to get Aureal limmed was actually Alisae.

But now I'm realizing that's not even true because I was telling Alisae that they were avoiding the Aureal wagon in 1147.

Anyway the point was that I was speculating two scum on the wagon, I didn't know it, it just made sense to me because I knew 2 town off the wagon for sure so it felt highly unlikely that both scum were just off wagon and letting us tear each other apart.
But evidently it is a possibility because Aureal V Alisae ended up being TvT.

this was your response. i think i understand this one? if i'm understanding correctly, it's like you thought there was probably a wolf on wagon because most people were town off wagon and on wagon it was probably alisae? if that's the case, i feel like the normal way people would think to type this would be "i think it's alisae because they were pushing the lim" and not go through the loophole of doing wagon analysis and stuff. idk, it doesn't seem natural &_& let me think on this one for a bit again

Yeah that's true

[DragonEater70]

kanna brain go sleep tonight. i'll summarise everything for tomorrow

p-edit: that's not the same tmi slip i'm talking about exactly. it's like... how do i explain it, by playing with you, i have developed kind of a personality read on you -- i think as scum, i think you're very planned and calculated, and you'd plant seeds so you can bring them back up to suit you/make your thought processes towny. and you also want to be right as scum. i've noticed a lot of cases where you foreshadow things and now looking back, it seems kinda scary. also another example of this is you being conscious of your townslip and were willing to use that in an argument. it's like, weird. i'll discuss more about this tomorrow

The problem with having a personality read on me Kanna, is you've never played with me as scum, so you wouldn't even know how I play as one!

As scum I win by sheer force of charisma, not by being cold and calculated. It's when I am town that I try to do anything resembling a calculation.

Also what do you mean that I foreshadowed things? This is really weird to me because I was actually quite thrown off by the results of both D1 and D2.

[DragonEater70]

i mean like your tmi slip isn't you slipping information you should only know as scum, it's using what you know to your advantage to seem more right. but town don't do this cause they don't know anything

Interesting take. Thing is I don't know anything you don't, except that bewolkt is scum.

[DragonEater70]

Guys
I think I was just exposed to OGI
Let me contact the mods about this weird fucking glitch

[DragonEater70]

Actually mod can you please redact my last post since it might be OGI in itself?

[DragonEater70]

think the game is solved for super realz this time (bewo/patch)

unfortunately, this does mean i was shittunnelling dragon for no reason all day. i was so sure he was scum that I didn’t think about the possibility he was town until a day ago and thinking back, my tunnel was definitely more hurtful if he was town so I’m sorry again dragon if you’re reading this

bewo’s reluctance to vote patch that I had to ask him 3 times then they unvoted probably means they’re aware limming patch is the worst lim for them because it creates 2 conftowns, one of which they have to take into lylo btw. but if the game is solved, none of that really matters

mala and elpis, do you want me to sell you on my solve? or do we somehow mildmeld?

Reading this now, apology accepted.

[DragonEater70]

HOLY SHIT wait it's probably bewo/dragon
VOTE: mala
actually maybe im just tinfoiling but

Noooo patch noooo

In ELo you ALWAYS vote the confirmed scum first!

Such a sad ending.

[DragonEater70]

Private Topics

Mod Notes: viewtopic.php?t=90537
Mafia PT: viewtopic.php?t=90534
Masons PT: viewtopic.php?t=90535
Dead PT: viewtopic.php?t=90536

If you had a personal private topic and you would like to share it now that the game is over, let me know and I will make it so!

Thanks so much to everyone for playing, and thanks to the people who replaced in and kept this game going!

Yeaaah I can finally read what the hell has been going on in the mason PT, been waiting for this for weeks!

[DragonEater70]

It's a little satisfying reading through the threads and seeing so minimal suspicion of me! Also for dragon: I didn't push you more early because I wanted to have more faith in me late game. I wanted to appear terribly, terribly innocent.

That is indeed toying with your food! I'm sure you could've ended the game like 4-5 days earlier, for real.

[DragonEater70]

Now that the game is over, I can explain what happened that caused DragonEater70's replacement.

First off neither he nor anyone else did anything wrong. It was a bug in the private threads functionality.

The default settings for notifications give users a notification if one of their posts has been quoted. And at Mafiascum, those notifications are turned off in the private threads.

Kanna had asked for edit abillities in her notes PT because she was using the PT to draft posts that she would later make in the main thread. And the fix that prevented notification from the private threads didn't work if the user has edit rights.

I'm amazed that this hasn't happened before (though I was the guinea pig who tripped the initial problem with quotes in PTs back in January).

Anyway, DemonEater got a notification and it included the title of the private thread, something like "Newbie 2114 Kanna notes".

He contacted the Newbie listmod, PenguinPower, who decided that it was best for the gamestate to replace him.

borkjerfkin, one of MS's tech admins got right on this and installed a fix within just a couple of hours!

Yeah despite this bug really breaking the game, I would like to acknowledge the mafiascum team and the mod for doing their work efficiently and making sure the game could continue without being compromised (and also fixing the bug). Thanks guys!

[DragonEater70]

Mafia played in the shadows while town kamikazed
Andante you got close to the solve, with how much you put into this I wish you won, you gave it everything, definitely the driving force of the EL0 endgame, if only you realized this solve,

bewo’s reluctance to vote patch that I had to ask him 3 times then they unvoted probably means they’re aware limming patch is the worst lim for them because it creates 2 conftowns, one of which they have to take into lylo btw. but if the game is solved, none of that really matters

Elpsis you had all of us fooled, we all thought you to be town, even Kanna in the end

Yeah for real, turns out there were ZERO wolves on the Aureal wagon. I feel so dumb.

[DragonEater70]

Oh that's cool!

[DragonEater70]

about the glitch: that’s very weird though, considering that wasn’t the first time i’ve quoted posts in my pt (dragon’s posts included)!

i think town’s only chance at winning was if dragon stayed and managed to convince me he was town (we were getting there on this) and of the correct solve so that replace out was especially painful.

thank you for the game, fferyllt and guyinfreezer

Well I acutally got two notifications, but the first time around I didn't even understand what was happening or that you had a notes PT, I thought it was just a weird bug so it didn't influence me play nor did it cause me to replace.

[DragonEater70]

patch i wouldn't recommend placing your vote while you're catching up

Yeah that's never a good thing to do.

[DragonEater70]

Also I agree, good job to Elpis and bewolkt for just letting us shred each other to pieces. I'm still amazed by the fact that we got a miselim on D1 without any help from the wolves - I think bewo was even defending Aureal, no?

[DragonEater70]

Well I guess I should'nt abandon my "townier than town" reads so easily next time. Because I definitely listed you as townier than town in my first or so readlist.

[DragonEater70]

It's in the normal queue, just type /in mini

[DragonEater70]

By the way bewolkt, now that the game is over, can I please ask if I was right about how you shifted your read on Patch to suit your needs? And that your thinking they faked a PR claim was because you knew the setup?

[DragonEater70]

They is Andante, sorry

[DragonEater70]

I'll just write a PM to bewolkt