Newbie 2114: Life Imitates Art...in Memes! -- End

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Post Post #1700 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:10 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1697, Kanna wrote: to dragon's allegations of me tunneling, i feel you genuinely do not see from my perspective in that i'm not purposefully making everything you do out to be scummy and not giving you reconsideration room, but you have legit scumsliped too many times that i don't think i can reconsider. the kinds of scumslips i've picked up are not like "oh this is mildly scum indicative" it's "i genuinely can't see this coming from town"
Okay.
Olease point out the posts where I'e scumslipped because I don't know how you can say that when before Ali flipped you were having the exact opposite opinion about me.
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Post Post #1701 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:15 pm

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was just about to go for a walk, but ok i'll try to make a summary list of the things i thought were really scummy from you tonight. if you wanna talk to me about them, we actually also can
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Post Post #1702 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:16 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1681, Elpis wrote: I think there's been a lot to absorb in all this discussion, and there's a lot from both sides that makes it hard for me to assess this as more than just vibes, as there's likely been a lot of misplays, a lot of just generally suspicious acts from everyone all around, and everyone seems to be a little prickly about the positions they hold and having their stances critiqued and disagreed with. I feel that Kanna is taking an emotion oriented approach, which tends to appeal to me because I am normally a very emotionally oriented person, but i'm trying to keep an open mind and read more than that here.

Dragon, you've been extremely backlashy in your responses, and somewhat aggressive, but also you've put a LOT of work into your Bewolkt analysis, and that should be recognized. Even if there were a lot of aspects I really didn't agree with, I think the effort behind it is commendable.

Patch... I just can't find myself finding a lot of trust in your minimal interactions. I know you're expressing that low interactions=/= scum, but even when you have interacted, I just haven't been able to trust what you've said for a while. I don't know if that's my fault, but I can't tell myself that you're town.
Dude, I understand why Kanna's approach is appealing to you, but it's actually cunning manipulation. It's very very beautiful manipulation, of the type that gets someone to hug you as you stab thrm in the back, you know what I mean? Like the sirens who sing beautifully and then eat you.

In regards to my backlash, well I am so incredibly frustrated at the position I am in because I KNOW who the scum are, I was townreading them for half a day, the scum are much better at manipulation than I am, AND, on top of all that, you expressed that you want to vote me. So it's an extremely dangerous situation and yeah I am not speaking in my most relaxed tone right now because I am not actually relaxed at all. I really want us to win, badly.
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Post Post #1703 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:17 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1684, Elpis wrote: Ah, and for Bewolkt, I meant to include that more within my Dragon discussing. I think they're largely suspect as at least being a pair in the scum side, probably still close to or on par with dragon in my suspicions. They had a good rebuttal I felt, but I don't know if it sums to full town. This is messy and i'm not confident.
Idk, their rebuttal basically consisted of taking every point I made and saying "not true". They haven't given any counter evidence or anything.
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Post Post #1704 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:18 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1703, DragonEater70 wrote: It's very very beautiful manipulation, of the type that gets someone to hug you as you stab thrm in the back, you know what I mean? Like the sirens who sing beautifully and then eat you.
this is an incredibly beautiful image though <3 i townread you irl dragon
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Post Post #1705 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:22 pm

Post by Kanna »

you know what, i'm willing to clear my head and just go over things step by step later dragon. i hope you join me in a meaningful discussion.
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Post Post #1706 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:25 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

I am glad you said that Kanna. We'll talk later then.

Also thanks for the irl townread! I guess that means if we ever meet IRL you won't call the cops on me?
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Post Post #1707 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:59 pm

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In post 1707, DragonEater70 wrote: I am glad you said that Kanna. We'll talk later then.

Also thanks for the irl townread! I guess that means if we ever meet IRL you won't call the cops on me?
of course not, kanna is adept both in self defence and assassination!
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Post Post #1708 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:02 pm

Post by Kanna »

ok before i talk about any scummy things, i had a thought to analyse our potential scumteams since there is actually quite a bit of info from these votes:

there must be scum in [dragon, bewo] therefore, all potential teams are below:

dragon/patch
dragon/bewo
dragon/elpis
dragon/kanna

bewo/patch
bewo/dragon
bewo/elpis
bewo/kanna

crossing out the ones that do not make sense leave the below:

dragon/patch
dragon/bewo
dragon/elpis
elpis would hammer bewo
dragon/kanna
i would hammer bewo

bewo/patch
bewo/dragon
double up
bewo/elpis
elpis knows how much i want to vote dragon and could've just said "ok kanna let's vote dragon" and 100% i would've complied
bewo/kanna

firstly, i guess this makes elpis p much conftown? which is fine because i thought they were anyway. if, for one fleeting moment, i am willing to admit i am wrong on you dragon and you can trust me, the scumteam has to be bewo/patch. just something to keep in mind i suppose
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Post Post #1709 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:01 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1690, Kanna wrote: siighhh i have a headache.

i still plan on making that post but to patch and dragon, do me a favour and just let me fucking breathe. you can try convince elpis if you like, but can you please not yell that i'm scum and to not listen to anything i have to say or whatever because i'm not doing that to you. of course this is not mandatory, but i would like that
I am going to respect that request because I also townread you irl, but just so you know I don't feel you have been doing the same for me (i.e. I feel you WERE ignoring what I was sayong and constantly saying I'm scum).
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Post Post #1710 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:04 pm

Post by bewolkt »

In post 1704, DragonEater70 wrote:
In post 1684, Elpis wrote: Ah, and for Bewolkt, I meant to include that more within my Dragon discussing. I think they're largely suspect as at least being a pair in the scum side, probably still close to or on par with dragon in my suspicions. They had a good rebuttal I felt, but I don't know if it sums to full town. This is messy and i'm not confident.
Idk, their rebuttal basically consisted of taking every point I made and saying "not true". They haven't given any counter evidence or anything.
I think I've answered all points you made providing evidence where you were obviously fabricating things and explaining my feelings and my intentions otherwise. You made your case about me not being absolute in my reads at the beginning of the game and every post you quoted in your case are first half D1 posts and I've already explained what was my mindset at that point. The only recent post you referred to is the one about patch's playstyle and I've explained that as well.

But please, if any of Kanna, Elpis think they need more info from me, please ask away
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Post Post #1711 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:07 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1709, Kanna wrote: ok before i talk about any scummy things, i had a thought to analyse our potential scumteams since there is actually quite a bit of info from these votes:

there must be scum in [dragon, bewo] therefore, all potential teams are below:

dragon/patch
dragon/bewo
dragon/elpis
dragon/kanna

bewo/patch
bewo/dragon
bewo/elpis
bewo/kanna

crossing out the ones that do not make sense leave the below:

dragon/patch
dragon/bewo
dragon/elpis
elpis would hammer bewo
dragon/kanna
i would hammer bewo

bewo/patch
bewo/dragon
double up
bewo/elpis
elpis knows how much i want to vote dragon and could've just said "ok kanna let's vote dragon" and 100% i would've complied
bewo/kanna

firstly, i guess this makes elpis p much conftown? which is fine because i thought they were anyway. if, for one fleeting moment, i am willing to admit i am wrong on you dragon and you can trust me, the scumteam has to be bewo/patch. just something to keep in mind i suppose
Also I agree with you that Elpis should be conftown because you would have complied and voted me. But then what I am not getting is why you told Elpis to wait rather than vote me when tbey said they ARE willing to vote me. Unless you thought that if you told them to vote me then they'd scumread you? Or unless somehow Elpis is scum and they thought that if they voted me you'd change your mind?
Or the last option is that patch is bussing bewo and both you and Elpis are town.
Which is a very weird possibility, but the fact that neither you nor Elpis is forcing the other one to vote me is much weirder tbh.
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Post Post #1712 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:07 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1710, DragonEater70 wrote:
In post 1690, Kanna wrote: siighhh i have a headache.

i still plan on making that post but to patch and dragon, do me a favour and just let me fucking breathe. you can try convince elpis if you like, but can you please not yell that i'm scum and to not listen to anything i have to say or whatever because i'm not doing that to you. of course this is not mandatory, but i would like that
I am going to respect that request because I also townread you irl, but just so you know I don't feel you have been doing the same for me (i.e. I feel you WERE ignoring what I was sayong and constantly saying I'm scum).
my apologies, i did have a moment of reflection and i can understand if someone is tunneling on you it must be incredibly frustrating so i'm sorry. if i ever ignore you going forward, let me know and i will try to be better.

fwiw i meant tell other people not to listen to me like "KANNA IS SCUM DO NOT LISTEN TO HER EVERYTHING SHE SAYS IS A LIE" which idk somehow i got off of one of your posts, but i think i misread because i was tired and annoyed
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Post Post #1713 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:10 pm

Post by Kanna »

now for the things i find scummy about you, dragon. i have rehabilitated myself and i will try to give you the benefit of the doubt, however i will still point out the things here i can't quite explain

the tmi thing. this was alisae's case back on d2
In post 1242, Alisae wrote: I genuinely think is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.
for reference, this was your original post:
In post 1208, DragonEater70 wrote:
In post 1186, patchwork wrote: don't wanna believe it's alisae because i liked their playstyle but now i'm gonna have to give that slot some second though
It is Alisae.
The evidence is this:
Both Andante and Aureal weren't voting Aureal, so there was at least 1 scum on the wagon. I honestly think it was 2, because if Aureal was indeed town then there's really no reason to suspect Elpis, and very little reason to suspect bewollt.
So again, probably 2 scum on the wagon, and it's not me or Kawaii. From your POV it's not you either so ot must be Alisae and Kanna.
Furthermore, Alisae was seriously powerwolfing yesterday ever since she joined. I can't believe she's a VT after she led this miselim. That would require us to have thw most passive mafia that ever existed, and I kinda doubt that.
Third point, mafia killed Andante who was the main person suspecting Alisae.
i still feel this is extremely weird -- i don't consider myself stupid but i couldn't understand this at the time and reading back now, i'm still not sure i do.

Aureal (5): Alisae, KawaiiKame, Kanna, DragonEater70, patchwork -- ELIM
Kanna (1): bewolkt
Alisae (1): Aureal


Not Voting (2): Elpis, Andante

so according to you, andante and aureal weren't voting aureal... um yes, but neither were bewo and elpis? how did you get to there was at least one scum on wagon? and then why would you say it was 2 and also there was little reason to suspect bewo? bewo wasn't related to aureal i think? the rest... idk i got lost again that i can't even ask questions anymore. i skimmed over it at the time, but after alisae pointed it out, i do think it makes the most sense you're actually wolf with tmi knowledge that there were 2 wolves on the wagon (which i would believe to be you/patch) and most of this is just word salad to at least put up a front that there are facts that alisae is likely wolf from the aureal lim. from a solving perspective, i don't think i could ever write up or even think to do something like this? it's way too weird and complicated
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Post Post #1714 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:10 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

Look I don't want to be LAMIST but Kanna if yoy ARE town (and this also applies to Elpis tbh), you gotta admit that I am TRYING to solve the game here, very very actively, and I know it is genuine though odk how it looks to you.
versus bewolkt which isn't trying to solve anything and is just deflecting everything back to me, and uses the excuse that they "know" I am scun from their POV so as not to even bring any evidence against me.
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Post Post #1715 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:11 pm

Post by Kanna »

oh wait i think you replied to that before, hang on for a moment while i find and think about your reply
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Post Post #1716 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:27 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1426, DragonEater70 wrote:
In post 1421, Kanna wrote:
In post 1418, DragonEater70 wrote: Then why are you scumreading me? I thought it was for limming Alisae, now I'm confused.
i'm scumreading you for reasons mentioned in the first part of my . in other words,
Spoiler:
In post 1242, Alisae wrote: I genuinely think is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.
except replace kanna with patch. and then it's perfect
Huh.
I think you both are reading way too much into what I was saying. It IS possible there were 0 scum on the D1 wagon for instance, I just think it would've been very weird for that to happen, because the way I see it (in general, not just this game) scum have to WORK in order to get town to miselim, and I thought the person who worked hardest to get Aureal limmed was actually Alisae.
But now I'm realizing that's not even true because I was telling Alisae that they were avoiding the Aureal wagon in .

Anyway the point was that I was speculating two scum on the wagon, I didn't know it, it just made sense to me because I knew 2 town off the wagon for sure so it felt highly unlikely that both scum were just off wagon and letting us tear each other apart.
But evidently it is a possibility because Aureal V Alisae ended up being TvT.
this was your response. i think i understand this one? if i'm understanding correctly, it's like you thought there was probably a wolf on wagon because most people were town off wagon and on wagon it was probably alisae? if that's the case, i feel like the normal way people would think to type this would be "i think it's alisae because they were pushing the lim" and not go through the loophole of doing wagon analysis and stuff. idk, it doesn't seem natural &_& let me think on this one for a bit again
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Post Post #1717 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:10 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1713, Kanna wrote:
In post 1710, DragonEater70 wrote:
In post 1690, Kanna wrote: siighhh i have a headache.

i still plan on making that post but to patch and dragon, do me a favour and just let me fucking breathe. you can try convince elpis if you like, but can you please not yell that i'm scum and to not listen to anything i have to say or whatever because i'm not doing that to you. of course this is not mandatory, but i would like that
I am going to respect that request because I also townread you irl, but just so you know I don't feel you have been doing the same for me (i.e. I feel you WERE ignoring what I was sayong and constantly saying I'm scum).
my apologies, i did have a moment of reflection and i can understand if someone is tunneling on you it must be incredibly frustrating so i'm sorry. if i ever ignore you going forward, let me know and i will try to be better.

fwiw i meant tell other people not to listen to me like "KANNA IS SCUM DO NOT LISTEN TO HER EVERYTHING SHE SAYS IS A LIE" which idk somehow i got off of one of your posts, but i think i misread because i was tired and annoyed
Apology accepted.
Also I may have had those undertones in one of my posts, sorry bout that.
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Post Post #1718 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:12 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1717, Kanna wrote:
In post 1426, DragonEater70 wrote:
In post 1421, Kanna wrote:
In post 1418, DragonEater70 wrote: Then why are you scumreading me? I thought it was for limming Alisae, now I'm confused.
i'm scumreading you for reasons mentioned in the first part of my . in other words,
Spoiler:
In post 1242, Alisae wrote: I genuinely think is Dragon using his status as the informed minority to his advantage here.
Being able to identify how many wolves are on a wagon is not even something that most players I play with in my games can identify correctly, or would even bother to do.

I think he is using the fact that he knows all of the answers to his advantage here. I think that thought is generated to try to make Dragons look townier but I don't think he is using that thought to be right and I think the simple answer for why he's spitting that out is because his wolf partner is Kanna and there actually are 2 wolves on wagon.

Which I fully agree with.
except replace kanna with patch. and then it's perfect
Huh.
I think you both are reading way too much into what I was saying. It IS possible there were 0 scum on the D1 wagon for instance, I just think it would've been very weird for that to happen, because the way I see it (in general, not just this game) scum have to WORK in order to get town to miselim, and I thought the person who worked hardest to get Aureal limmed was actually Alisae.
But now I'm realizing that's not even true because I was telling Alisae that they were avoiding the Aureal wagon in .

Anyway the point was that I was speculating two scum on the wagon, I didn't know it, it just made sense to me because I knew 2 town off the wagon for sure so it felt highly unlikely that both scum were just off wagon and letting us tear each other apart.
But evidently it is a possibility because Aureal V Alisae ended up being TvT.
this was your response. i think i understand this one? if i'm understanding correctly, it's like you thought there was probably a wolf on wagon because most people were town off wagon and on wagon it was probably alisae? if that's the case, i feel like the normal way people would think to type this would be "i think it's alisae because they were pushing the lim" and not go through the loophole of doing wagon analysis and stuff. idk, it doesn't seem natural &_& let me think on this one for a bit again
Yeah I guess it sounds more natutal/soft that way but when I play Mafia I don't always say things in a neutral soft way.
I'll try to find the link shortly but in my first game here when I was town I admitted that I had conceded a point and then went back to chase it again. It probably doesn't sound the most genuine but it's what I did anyway.
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Post Post #1719 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:25 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

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Post Post #1720 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:26 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

Wait that's the link totthe accusation not the admission. One sec.
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Post Post #1721 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:39 pm

Post by Kanna »

whatever this link was for, i skimmed through it and i actually really liked it. i'll keep this bookmarked for other stuff i'll talk about
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Jack of All Trades
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User avatar
DragonEater70
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8222
Joined: February 4, 2023
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: UTC+2

Post Post #1722 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:42 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

Here it is for anyone interested:




In post 527, DragonEater70 wrote:




Well look. First off, I guess I may have intentionally ignored some of your explanations. This was mainly due to not believing them, but there were a few I believed and I even said so. The reason I went back to them is I just found it weird that you had so
many
of these, but honestly I guess that from an outside viewpoint I also had quite a few things needing explanation, including what I am replying to right now. So I promise from now on I won't do this kind of thing again - I will only use points where I don't believe your explanation. Second thing, I don't think these two things contradict at all. Bella was saying that your posts are mainly negative and don't advance the game. I said that your posts are negative and don't advance the game, too. I only added that your lack of advancing the game comes from an artificial-feeling sort of neutralness. If you are equally negative about everything, then you are still neutral, in a sense. IDK if this makes sense, but that's how it feels to me. Also, that neutrality is obviously fake in my eyes, while that negativity is basically your "true" colors, according to that theory (which I'm starting to like less and less, because your recent posts are getting townier and townier).

User avatar
DragonEater70
DragonEater70
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
DragonEater70
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8222
Joined: February 4, 2023
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: UTC+2

Post Post #1723 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:43 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

In post 1722, Kanna wrote:
whatever this link was for, i skimmed through it and i actually really liked it. i'll keep this bookmarked for other stuff i'll talk about
Lol I posted a wrong link though
User avatar
DragonEater70
DragonEater70
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
DragonEater70
He/Him
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8222
Joined: February 4, 2023
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: UTC+2

Post Post #1724 (ISO) » Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:44 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

I basically quoted now another game where I as town openly admitted to doing something very scummy (ignoring someone's explanations for their actions where I previously conceded that these explanations were valid).

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