Newbie 1248 (GAME OVER)

[Hyperion]

Hello everybody. I'm Hyperion, and this is my first game on this site. I have about 5 games under my belt at another mafia site, but there we play much shorter games (days last about 30 hours, and nights last between 2 and 8 hours), so I'm playing a nubie game to get used to the longer phases. So to reply to RQS:
1 My timezone is United States Eastern Standard Time, which I believe is GMT-5.
2 My thoughts on random vote stage? At my old site, we had something similar called Role PLay stage, where we would use alternate sign ins based on the game theme to play to discourage meta arguments, and people would make up a reason to vote based on the character the alternate sign in is based on (for example, in my last game, it was french themed, so I voted for the person signed in as the Bastille, because "it was a prison, so is probably is full of scum"). That makes sense right? But my thoughts on RVS and my old sites RP stage. They can be funny, but they don't do much until someone comes into conflict with someone else.
3 Lynching a liar is OK, but shouldn't be a rule that we must always lynch someone if they lie right then and there. Lynching lurkers I feel wouldnt be that successful in a newbie game, because a newbie may look like they are lurking but in reality they dont know how to contribute (because they are unexperienced) so they just keep quiet.
ummm.... I think thats it.

[Hyperion]

Oh wait, I was wrong in my above post. My timezone is GMT-4

[Hyperion]

I loathe RQS with a passion. It changes the focus of the start of the game to theory discussion instead of scumhunting.

I don't think knowing a few basic things about the other players can do any harm, and I'm not sure at all that the RVS contributes, in the first few posts, more than the RQS. I am not sure how one can go scumhunting without

any

material to go on, and the RQS does get people to talk, at least more so than the very short RVS posts I've seen where players do nothing but fling votes around.

Yes but what he means is that RQS can get us off track and cause us to talk about the overarching theory of the game mafia, such as what we are doing now with the lynch all liars and lynch all lurkers discussion. Now, scum can comment on this discussion and look like they are contributing. So asking a question like that is an opening for scum to look like they are contributing without doing any scumhunting.

[Hyperion]

On a further note, though I am aware that it is very unreliable at this point, I do have somewhat of a town read on Chronos. On the rest of the people, I am neutral as of yet. However..because I do not agree with Axxle's thoughts on creating a policy where lurkers are lynched, I will vote for him*.

VOTE: Axxle

* I do think that it is better to get the lurkers to be more active, or to get them to replace out, because although lurking does delay scumhunting, the lynches have to be decided very carefully, so that as much information may be deduced from the lynch as possible. Another point with this kind of a policy-lynch is that it would probably condition the scum to act a single way (that is, not to lurk) and then lynching the lurkers instead of looking more at who acts scummy might basically cost

all

the townies' lives.

So you don't necessarily think he is scum (you have a neutral read on him) but you want to vote for him anyways? Just because he does not agree wth you? And you have a town read on Chronos after he posts twice, both being about theory and game mechanics. Can you say scumbudies? VOTE: Arinna

[Hyperion]

^ OK you kinda lost me with that last post Axxle, could you possibly rephrase the sentence about misleading please?

[Hyperion]

OK that makes so much more sense now, I thought you were saying Seacore was being misleading and then attacked Wombat for attacking his comment because the comment was misleadoing. Thank you for clearing that up.

[Hyperion]

OK, so to generate discusion, how does everyone feel about Arinna's town read on Chronos and vote on Axxle from Post 25 (<--- I think I did that right, if not just look at post 25). I think it seems rather scummy, anyone else see any validity in her town read, do you think she could be scumbuddies with Chronos and trying to protect him early? Does anyone want to submit any thought at all?

[Hyperion]

No, I do not think that anyone is necessarily scum right now, but I most certainly do not see a problem with voting for someone whose idea regarding the subject seemed anti-town to me. (I know that this isn't the case all the time, but disagreeing with someone regarding a certain type of policy lynch would mean that I think that the opposite view could potentially be harmful.) And I also do not think that a first vote on someone in such an early stage has to have very sound evidence backing it (we

have

almost no evidence), or that "vote: person X because of their avatar or name" would be more helpful than this. Voting someone does not mean that I am pushing for anyone's lynch. This is my not-so-random "RVS" vote (you know, with the very lowered standards and all) that

has

done some good, as it has generated discussion.

Either way, you said you want to vote for him because he disagrees with you, first, thats horribly anti town, second, his policy (lynching lurkers) is better than trying to get them to participate, because some people don't respond to the prodding. and letting them get replaced brings in a brand new person, who we need to reevaluate in possibly a limited time period, and if they had been following the game, they could have some genuine pre-determined reads to share, so even if they are scum, they can find ways to contribute.
Voting for someone DOES mean you are trying to lynch them because you are getting closer to being lynched.
And its not random if you actually give a legit reason (like a disagreement on a policy), your reason wasnt good, but it was better than "because of his name" and it wasnt random.

[Hyperion]

That is patently false LC. You may think that an RVS isn't helpful, and I'd agree with you, but to say it doesn't exist as a concept is wrong. As an SE please try and be clear about when you're giving your opinion.

Also, it's a weekend , so let's not get worked up about some players not posting.

I think he's saying there's not an official RVStage with an ending time then suddenly mafia becomes serious.

Vote Seacore

for either skimming or being deliberately obtuse.

I don't like that LC said "There is

no such thing

as the RVS." That

is

a lie, one that can be confusing to new players. If he said something like "The Random Voting Stage is..." and then proceeded to the rest of that post that would be better. It was probably just a mistake made out of hatred for the RVS but don't attack someone for thinking it's misleading when it

is

misleading. I don't think LordChronos meant anything bad by it, but VOTE: wombat for attacking someone for being "obtuse" while himself not trying to understand.

Also just fyi:

for voting you can use the

[vot

e][/vote] tags instead of bold.

(Do you mind if I use blue for things like this, Seacore?)

Axxle, Hyperion, Mortontfrh, Balnazzar, what do you think about this theoretical discussion that has been going on? (To clarify, I am not asking you about the RVS, but what has been going on between Chronos, Wombat and Seacore, and its implications, if any.)

Looking at it, I don't know where Wombat is coming from with that vote, it seems like a general misunderstanding.


and on an unrelated note, Axxle is slightly overdefensive from LC's vote on him.

[Hyperion]

I'm so bad at Day 1...

Even after reading over everything multiple times, nothing really strikes me as odd.

If you cant find anything to comment on, answer some of the questions that people have asked. Think on each question and answer them as logically as you can. In thinking on the quesions, you may find something that you want to comment on.

[Hyperion]

Votecount 1.03

crabbyman66

(0) -

Axxle

(3) - Arinna, LordChronos, Seacore

wombat99

(0) -

Arinna

(0) -

Balnazzar

(0) -

Hyperion

(0) -

LordChronos

(1) - Mortontfrh

Mortontfrh

(0) -

Seacore

(2) - wombat99, Axxle

Not Voting

(3) - crabbyman66, Balnazzar, Hyperion

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.

Axxle

is the current wagon leader(s), at

L-2

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-06-23 07:00:00)

Just a quick note, please try and make sure votes are on their own line. I am guilty of skimming the thread for boldface type to count votes and if it's at the end of a sentence on the far right of the post, I am bound to miss it. I already noticed I missed Axxle's vote in post 38.

@MOD I have a vote on Arinna from Post 25

[Hyperion]

OK, so Axxle is starting to be ridiculous attacking Seacore. Is he just doing that because Seacore said Wombat was town because newbscum wouldn't attack the IC, and Axxle wants him to say Axxle looks town for the same reason?

[Hyperion]

That would be silly for him think I'm town for attacking him after he made a post like that. I'm pressuring him for a few reasons. Many (not all) of his previous posts had been terse. Because some had been lengthy I knew that I should be able to get more out of him. I also did get a scummy vibe (after the fact) from him reading way too much into LC's post about RVS, which also created the first second vote on someone.

I'm not questioning your attack on his vote, it did look kind of scummy. But you started being ridicuously pushy and slightly obnoxious trying to get him to answer. You definately seemed like you were trying to pick a fight with him, and this happened maybe 4 hours after Seacore declared Wombat town for picking a fight with the IC. It seems very staged and oppurtunistic.

[Hyperion]

I'm going to do some ISOs and post my thoughts. Bear with me here, because I tend to use a lot of quotes when I explain what I found in my ISOs, so my posts may be kinda long.

[Hyperion]

Starting in the order on the vote tally chart thing. First up is...
Crabby:
Obv not a lot to go on,
Post 26 and Post 27 are his check in post and him aknowledging the article that LC posted. Nothing there.
His only other post is Post 65 where he said he had nothing to comment on, I told him that if nothing stood out to him then he should answer some of the questions that have been asked by a couple of players. He didn't, and hasn't posted since, and I checked, and he hasn't posted anywhere else either, and hasnt signed on since then (you can check that here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=19019 ) So he isnt lurking, he just isnt playing.
Overall: Basically nothing to go on, but its a long way till deadline, so I expect him to post ALOT to make up for this in the future.

[Hyperion]

Next up is...
Axxle:
Post 13 Intro post, a vote for LC because LC doesnt like RQS, but then he goes on to say he doesnt know if RQS is helpful in scum hunting, it just helps newbs feel like they are contributing. The problem with that is that it isnt really contributing, its all a discussion of game mechanics, which is a really easy place for scum to hide and look busy.

Post 20 is game mechanics, and very obvious game mechanics, "getting everyone to talk is the way to find scum" good job, you get a gold star for common sense skills.

Post 21 Is him pressuring inactive players,

on page 1

, he goes after easy targets.

Post 28 is him defending his lynch policy (granted I agree with his policy, but so far he hasn't done really anyhting of substance pertaining to the current game). Unvotes deciding to not be part of RVS

Post 38 wishy washy on LC's RVS comment (I dont like this, but it was probably just this...) The vote on Wombat seems OK to me though. He rephrases part of this post in post 41 per my request.

44 is a defense of Arinna (I know someone already commented on it, but it did seem rather strong this early, especially when he has no prior game experience with Arinna.)

46 and 47 is an overdefensive (IMO, or course) reaction to LC's vote on him.

61 The first part can be rather wishy washy in places like this: "I thought it was obvious that LC was being ambiguous but since LC's explanation I can see how wombat would have thought it was understandable at first glance." Pressures lurkers again, and says Seacore looks scumy, then comes his "dude why aren't you answering me stuff "

He aslo tries to almost pick a fight with LC in Post 64 Also, this comes after Seacore says attacking a experienced player isn't newbscummy.

Pressure crabby again, goes for easy target

And then comes his "why aren't you answering my tirade, which I have already expressed my opinions on.

Then pressure + votes for Crabby, again an easy target.

OVERALL: He goes after the easy targets, and hi posts seem wishy washy in parts, and some seem very oppurtunistic. I would switch my vote to him, but that would put him at lynch one, and I'd like to avoid that for now just in case someone makes a mistake and votes for him when he is at lynch1 and we lynch him early without discussion.

[Hyperion]

Wombat:
posts 6 and 8, she says that lurking and lying is anti town, but not necessarily scummish. Concedes in post 17

Calls Seacore "obtuse" and says skimming/obtuseness is anti town behaviour. Votes for him-> if you don't necessarily want to lynch anti town behavior originally, then why do you contradict yourself now? and if you have changed your mind (I know you said you saw that not lynching anti town may give scum a free pass), would you now be willing to lynch lurkers/liars?

I do agree with Seacore that it is unlikely for newbscum to pick a fight with the IC, so thats a point in her favor.

59 is a good question

Thats it, Overall: I feel good about Wombat

[Hyperion]

Arinna
Asks questions to get game rolling
Some stuff about the use of RQS, it is easy for scum to hide in that type of stuff.
Seems very long winded like in Post 19 Overexplanation and overdefensiveness can sometimes be scummy, but only if you bring meta into the argument, and I don't know Arinna's meta.
I still don't like Post 25 for the same reasons I stated before (If you want to know them, see Post 35)
Don't like the first part of Post 50 She admits to voting for someone just because she disagrees with them. Won't defend my scumbuddy accusation b/c of WIFOM. I don't necessarily think that can be used as an excuse. And her town read on LC slides back to null after she is subject to opposition (not necessarily a bad thing as long as her explanation makes sense).
Post 52 seems good, except that she did miss LC's thoughts on my case on her. Other than that, she does give a reason defending her read change on LC (I have yet to check if her reason is right but... ).
Post 62 is a defense of her actions. she says she voted for Axle because she disagreed with him (still not a good reason). Some stuff about the use of votes (game mechanics, an easy way for scum to look busy). And again, her defense on her read shift on LC.
Says her read change on LC was not as good, because her reasoning was off (she thought he posted a lot of theory, but realises he didn't) it seems kind of meh.
Post 80 seems wishy washy "I hadn't considered it... its possible... I'm not completely sure etc." <---paraphrase

[Hyperion]

Forgot to add in my overall for Arinna: I feel slightly better about her not enough to say she is town (she is kinda hovering between slight scum read and null read) enough to
UNVOTE: Arinna
I think Axxle would be a better lynch right now, but I still want to keep my eye on Arinna.

[Hyperion]

@97 because it isn't the only thing I have done
@98 what does IIoA mean?

[Hyperion]

OK here we go the Bold is mine:

That would be silly for him think I'm town for attacking him after he made a post like that. I'm pressuring him for a few reasons. Many (not all) of his previous posts had been terse. Because some had been lengthy I knew that I should be able to get more out of him. I also did get a scummy vibe (after the fact) from him reading way too much into LC's post about RVS, which also created the first second vote on someone.

I'm not questioning your attack on his vote, it did look kind of scummy. But you started being ridicuously pushy and slightly obnoxious trying to get him to answer. You definately seemed like you were trying to pick a fight with him, and this happened maybe 4 hours after Seacore declared Wombat town for picking a fight with the IC. It seems very staged and oppurtunistic.

What I meant was I have no illusions that I'll look town by attacking him. If he said "Axxle is town. No newbie scum picks a fight with the IC" I would have been very surprised and confused. I also obviously didn't mean to come across as scum for doing so either.

It happened maybe four hours after Seacore cleared someone else for attacking him, it just looks planned and staged to me

Pre-edit: Well. Do I really come across as attacking easy targets? I feel like I've attacked or questioned most at some point this game. I never really expected anyone to go along with me, I'm just trying to get responses out of people and give responses as appropriate. If you take that to be over defensive that how do you even expect to get a response out of anyone? And since when is pressure bad? I mean really.

Most of what you have done has included pressuring the inactives, yes we need to pressure them, but its easy to pressure someone who isn't doing anything instead of looking at the people who have been doing something

To be specific:

Next up is...
Axxle:
Post 13 Intro post, a vote for LC because LC doesnt like RQS, but then he goes on to say he doesnt know if RQS is helpful in scum hunting, it just helps newbs feel like they are contributing. The problem with that is that it isnt really contributing, its all a discussion of game mechanics, which is a really easy place for scum to hide and look busy.

Well, I didn't know game mechanic discussions was a thing that benefited mafia before LC's link.

Then for future reference, it helps a mafia to look busy, because it looks like they are contributiing, but nothing they asy pertains to this game, so its like safe, easy contribution.

Post 20 is game mechanics, and very obvious game mechanics, "getting everyone to talk is the way to find scum" good job, you get a gold star for common sense skills.

what? there are noobs/idiots that don't know even this. I'm not a good enough mafia player to know the intricacies yet.

How else do you expect us to find the scum... magic?

Post 21 Is him pressuring inactive players,

on page 1

, he goes after easy targets.

Ok, so? What's wrong with pressuring people? There wasn't a lot happening page 1...

It looks like you are trying to look like you are contributing, it is highly unlikely for everyone to have posted by page one, this presssure starting her seems unnecessary.

Post 28 is him defending his lynch policy (granted I agree with his policy, but so far he hasn't done really anyhting of substance pertaining to the current game). Unvotes deciding to not be part of RVS

Arinna voted for me because of my lynching policy. I felt the need to defend myself. I also hadn't finished that article yet. Point?

Its empty contribution, it wouldnt have looked scummy if you had contributed more before had

Post 38 wishy washy on LC's RVS comment (I dont like this, but it was probably just this...) The vote on Wombat seems OK to me though. He rephrases part of this post in post 41 per my request.

I thought it was pretty direct. Although seeing this does make me realize where LC was coming from when he posted later.

You don't take a very firm stand, trying to be agreeable and not step on any toes, which is scummy, because mafia want to blend in and not stand out

44 is a defense of Arinna (I know someone already commented on it, but it did seem rather strong this early, especially when he has no prior game experience with Arinna.)

Yeah, yeah. You don't want my townreads? Fine. It turned out to be very spot on though.

I didnt say I didnt want it, I'm just saying, how can you glean all that from 2 or 3 pages, it looks like you are trying to make her look good

46 and 47 is an overdefensive (IMO, or course) reaction to LC's vote on him.

LC thought he was being incredibly clear. Two people said he wasn't. It's therefore obvious he wasn't clear. I also don't think I defended myself so much as addressed that issue.

Yeah I think I read that wrong, with that first sentence, I thought you were defending your vote on wombat saying it was random which wouldnt have made sense

61 The first part can be rather wishy washy in places like this: "I thought it was obvious that LC was being ambiguous but since LC's explanation I can see how wombat would have thought it was understandable at first glance."

I was wrong about LC and wombat's intentions? Ok? I can be wrong.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm sayin youa arent taking a solid stance

Pressures lurkers again

Why isn't anyone else pressuring lurkers? Is there something I just don't get?

Its only day 3 of the 21 we have before deadline, we will get more right now from questioning the people who are active than from pressuring the ones who arent, and dont even attempt to be.

, and says Seacore looks scumy, then comes his "dude why aren't you answering me stuff "

I gave my reasons for it, that maybe he saw what LC and wombat saw and posted that anyway to throw people like me off.

Yes but your "why arent you answering me thing" stilll looks bad, as Ihave said before

He aslo tries to almost pick a fight with LC in Post 64 Also, this comes after Seacore says attacking a experienced player isn't newbscummy.

Again I apologize for that. I'm used to getting very prompt responses where being ignored usually means that players are scared to answer.

We have 21 days, thats 504 hours, if it takes him like 7 or 8 hours to respond to you becaus ehe has more important real life things, like a job and a family, thats OK, because we still have 400 an whatever hours left for him to answer

Pressure crabby again, goes for easy target

He isn't doing anything. Is it so wrong to kick him into action?

already addressed this elsewhere

And then comes his "why aren't you answering my tirade, which I have already expressed my opinions on.

Sorry. I want to keep the game moving.

like I said, we have 504 hours, 7 or eight of them arent going to make a huge difference

Then pressure + votes for Crabby, again an easy target.

"He isn't doing anything. Is it so wrong to kick him into action?"

see above

[Hyperion]

OK here we go the Bold is mine:

That would be silly for him think I'm town for attacking him after he made a post like that. I'm pressuring him for a few reasons. Many (not all) of his previous posts had been terse. Because some had been lengthy I knew that I should be able to get more out of him. I also did get a scummy vibe (after the fact) from him reading way too much into LC's post about RVS, which also created the first second vote on someone.

I'm not questioning your attack on his vote, it did look kind of scummy. But you started being ridicuously pushy and slightly obnoxious trying to get him to answer. You definately seemed like you were trying to pick a fight with him, and this happened maybe 4 hours after Seacore declared Wombat town for picking a fight with the IC. It seems very staged and oppurtunistic.

What I meant was I have no illusions that I'll look town by attacking him. If he said "Axxle is town. No newbie scum picks a fight with the IC" I would have been very surprised and confused. I also obviously didn't mean to come across as scum for doing so either.

It happened maybe four hours after Seacore cleared someone else for attacking him, it just looks planned and staged to me

Pre-edit: Well. Do I really come across as attacking easy targets? I feel like I've attacked or questioned most at some point this game. I never really expected anyone to go along with me, I'm just trying to get responses out of people and give responses as appropriate. If you take that to be over defensive that how do you even expect to get a response out of anyone? And since when is pressure bad? I mean really.

Most of what you have done has included pressuring the inactives, yes we need to pressure them, but its easy to pressure someone who isn't doing anything instead of looking at the people who have been doing something

To be specific:

Next up is...
Axxle:
Post 13 Intro post, a vote for LC because LC doesnt like RQS, but then he goes on to say he doesnt know if RQS is helpful in scum hunting, it just helps newbs feel like they are contributing. The problem with that is that it isnt really contributing, its all a discussion of game mechanics, which is a really easy place for scum to hide and look busy.

Well, I didn't know game mechanic discussions was a thing that benefited mafia before LC's link.

Then for future reference, it helps a mafia to look busy, because it looks like they are contributiing, but nothing they asy pertains to this game, so its like safe, easy contribution.

Post 20 is game mechanics, and very obvious game mechanics, "getting everyone to talk is the way to find scum" good job, you get a gold star for common sense skills.

what? there are noobs/idiots that don't know even this. I'm not a good enough mafia player to know the intricacies yet.

How else do you expect us to find the scum... magic?

Post 21 Is him pressuring inactive players,

on page 1

, he goes after easy targets.

Ok, so? What's wrong with pressuring people? There wasn't a lot happening page 1...

It looks like you are trying to look like you are contributing, it is highly unlikely for everyone to have posted by page one, this presssure starting her seems unnecessary.

Post 28 is him defending his lynch policy (granted I agree with his policy, but so far he hasn't done really anyhting of substance pertaining to the current game). Unvotes deciding to not be part of RVS

Arinna voted for me because of my lynching policy. I felt the need to defend myself. I also hadn't finished that article yet. Point?

Its empty contribution, it wouldnt have looked scummy if you had contributed more before had

Post 38 wishy washy on LC's RVS comment (I dont like this, but it was probably just this...) The vote on Wombat seems OK to me though. He rephrases part of this post in post 41 per my request.

I thought it was pretty direct. Although seeing this does make me realize where LC was coming from when he posted later.

You don't take a very firm stand, trying to be agreeable and not step on any toes, which is scummy, because mafia want to blend in and not stand out

44 is a defense of Arinna (I know someone already commented on it, but it did seem rather strong this early, especially when he has no prior game experience with Arinna.)

Yeah, yeah. You don't want my townreads? Fine. It turned out to be very spot on though.

I didnt say I didnt want it, I'm just saying, how can you glean all that from 2 or 3 pages, it looks like you are trying to make her look good

46 and 47 is an overdefensive (IMO, or course) reaction to LC's vote on him.

LC thought he was being incredibly clear. Two people said he wasn't. It's therefore obvious he wasn't clear. I also don't think I defended myself so much as addressed that issue.

Yeah I think I read that wrong, with that first sentence, I thought you were defending your vote on wombat saying it was random which wouldnt have made sense

61 The first part can be rather wishy washy in places like this: "I thought it was obvious that LC was being ambiguous but since LC's explanation I can see how wombat would have thought it was understandable at first glance."

I was wrong about LC and wombat's intentions? Ok? I can be wrong.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm sayin youa arent taking a solid stance

Pressures lurkers again

Why isn't anyone else pressuring lurkers? Is there something I just don't get?

Its only day 3 of the 21 we have before deadline, we will get more right now from questioning the people who are active than from pressuring the ones who arent, and dont even attempt to be.

, and says Seacore looks scumy, then comes his "dude why aren't you answering me stuff "

I gave my reasons for it, that maybe he saw what LC and wombat saw and posted that anyway to throw people like me off.

Yes but your "why arent you answering me thing" stilll looks bad, as Ihave said before

He aslo tries to almost pick a fight with LC in Post 64 Also, this comes after Seacore says attacking a experienced player isn't newbscummy.

Again I apologize for that. I'm used to getting very prompt responses where being ignored usually means that players are scared to answer.

We have 21 days, thats 504 hours, if it takes him like 7 or 8 hours to respond to you becaus ehe has more important real life things, like a job and a family, thats OK, because we still have 400 an whatever hours left for him to answer

Pressure crabby again, goes for easy target

He isn't doing anything. Is it so wrong to kick him into action?

already addressed this elsewhere

And then comes his "why aren't you answering my tirade, which I have already expressed my opinions on.

Sorry. I want to keep the game moving.

like I said, we have 504 hours, 7 or eight of them arent going to make a huge difference

Then pressure + votes for Crabby, again an easy target.

"He isn't doing anything. Is it so wrong to kick him into action?"

see above

[Hyperion]

^that posted twice, its all the same though

[Hyperion]

Next is:
Balnazzar... so nothing, skipping to the next person on the player list:
Lord Chronos:
Votes Arinna because he says he hates RQS because it changes the focus of the game (a good reason for hating RQS, don't think it is a great reason for voting Arinna though)
Defends his RVS thing (still not sure why its supposed to be confusing), makes good point in 45, Axxle's defense of Arinna seems to strong this early. Questioned why Arinna no longer thinks he is town. Asking questions can help,
Honestly overall, LC seems null to me.

[Hyperion]

I'll leave off on Morton because he is V/LA, so I'll cover him when he gets back.

[Hyperion]

Seacore
Asks questions to get the game going (On Wombat's vote on him, and on wombat's original answer to question three) but they have been on game mechanics, so the good part of questioning cancels out the GM stuff, so null for now.
Pressures LC, like I said for Axxle, that can be going after an easy target. Also pressure crabby, so same thing as before.
Thats all for now, busy tomorrow, dont expect much till later.

[Hyperion]

OK so I'm back earlier than expected.
Arinna, to reply to your questions, yes I think wishiwashiness is a scum tell, because scum tend to try to blend in, because if they stand out, people will look at them more, and may discover evidence against them. That being said, they wouldn't take a strong stance, so they wouldn't stand out, so they would say things like "maybe this but..." etc. As to your second question, I thought that LC was an easy target because he hasn't had a lot of time to post because of his finals. Its easy to attack someone for a low post count, it is hard for someone to actually look through and make comments on the scumminess of posts, especially for scum, because they know who is scummy and who isn't, and have to lie to convince us that someone who is town is scum.

[Hyperion]

I think I am just going to vote lord chaos for not posting in the thread for awhile (and some other things). His reason for not posting was that he was doing his finals, but it sounds fishy becuase I would think that his school would be out by now

/vote lord chaos

What are your "other reasons" or are you just attacking him for his low post count. And seriously you think its fishy that he said his finals are the reason why he couldnt post, or you just couldnt think of a reason and wanted to look busy? That may just be one of the worst votes I have ever seen.
VOTE: Kalbim

[Hyperion]

I think I am just going to vote lord chaos for not posting in the thread for awhile (and some other things). His reason for not posting was that he was doing his finals, but it sounds fishy becuase I would think that his school would be out by now

/vote lord chaos

What are your "other reasons" or are you just attacking him for his low post count. And seriously you think its fishy that he said his finals are the reason why he couldnt post, or you just couldnt think of a reason and wanted to look busy? That may just be one of the worst votes I have ever seen.
VOTE: Kalbim

[Hyperion]

And it posted twice again, what the hell is wrong with my computer? so mods, thats just one vote on Kalbim.

[Hyperion]

SoraAdvent, can we please get your thoughts on the other players, other than Kalbim? (sorry I haven't posted in a while guys, I've been busy today, I have to leave now, but should be around tomorrow morning.)

[Hyperion]

LordChronos

- The only thing he's really been involved in is that misunderstanding fiasco. This is my strongest scum read (although still weak) for refusing to accept being wrong and painting me and Seacore as the bad guys.

I agree with Chronos that not accepting being wrong, especially in a misunderstanding-fed argument about the RVS, is a very good scumtell, but I might be missing a point; can you please explain why you think it is?

I actually disagree with this, I believe that the part about him refusing to admit he is wrong is more of a town tell. Scum want to blend in, so if he were scum, he would have conceded. However, continuing to refuse to consider himself wrong draws attention to him, which I don't think scum would do.

[Hyperion]

OK so Axxle seems to be grasping at straws now, and that last post wasn't very good at all. I'd be willing to put him at L-1 when I get home from my graduation tonight if no one has any objections, then we can give him some time for a claim (if any) and end day one.

[Hyperion]

@Arinna: Thank You! I actually managed to graduate in the top 20 of the class.
@Axxle: It means you are just blindly picking at any possibilty

[Hyperion]

I'm gonna go out to celebrate, then I will put Axxle at L1, that wa, everyone has time to voice their opinios/comments etc.

[Hyperion]

I'm back. I missed Arinna's post saying we should wait, and I am willing to give it a day or so then if thats what everyone wants.

[Hyperion]

Hey Kalbim, where is that post you said you were gonna make like 10 hours ago?

[Hyperion]

OK, so I know that people have said we should wait before we lynch so they can get more info, but no one is posting. I'm giving it a few hours, and then I'm switching to Axxle, because waiting around not doing anything isn't going to help.

[Hyperion]

The reason why I decided to wait is because some people (I think it was Arinna) said to wait and try to find out some more stuff before we end the day. I waited to see if anyone did anything and nothing happened, so I decided that getting a flip and a nightkill might help. I would rather lynch Axxle today because we have more to go on, than with Kalbim, who has maybe 5 posts total. I definately want to lynch Kalbim tomorrow, if he continues to act the way he has (barely posting, and when he does, being scummy).

[Hyperion]

Ok, so since Axxle has already claimed, and people still want Kalbim to post,
In the words of MC Hammer: duh nuh nuh nuh, nuh nuh, nuh nuh HAMMER TIME
UNVOTE: Kalbim
VOTE: Axxle
Thats a lynch, fingers crossed

[Hyperion]

So we can't post once the mod closes the thread right? How long will that last? BEcause there are a few days this week where I will have no computer access, so I hope it lasts at least a couple days so I can get all that over with. Oh and if there is a doctor out their, I'd really appreciate being saved tonight

[Hyperion]

OK, so I'm back, and fully available now. Only have one page to read through, so comments coming soon.

[Hyperion]

I am just going to vote axxle becuase he has been acting very scummy 24/7 and also,

if I vote him, and he turns out to be scum... well, why would a scum vote for anoher scum

/vote: Axxle

Surprised that no one else has commented on the bold, seems like Kalbim knew that Axxle was gonna flip scum, and so wanted to try to show that he was protown for voting for scum

[Hyperion]

GOing to Granparents, will do rereads when I get back.

[Hyperion]

OK so rereads, beginning from my last section of rereads, and progressing from there, then taking into account my result from my earlier reread.
Alphabetical order starts with...
Arinna: Starting from page 5
Post 111 Her comments on Axxle seem a little wishywashy (namely this part: "Perhaps it's my lack of perception, perhaps I get confused after reading all the posts, but to be honest, I can't see clearly what Axxle thinks about other players, and not knowing what a player thinks makes me feel uneasy"), but the rest of the post eems good, asks some questions, which is good.
Her next post seems a bit lie game mechanics, but it is her advocating for people to take their time and think things through, so one thing balances out the other.
146 is good, she attacks Kalbim (but its not jumping on the bandwagon, she was only the second person to attack him), and her comments in the post seem genuine and protown
A lot of the times when I see her as wishywashy, it reminds me a lot of the way I acted in my first game of mafia (btw, Regfan, you were in that game, but it was on a different forum), where I was town, so it makes me lean more town on her.
She has been advocating patience, making sure everyone thinks things out, which is protown.
Overall: At first I said she was about neutral, now I am feeling better about her, I'd call her probable town.

[Hyperion]

Next comes Kalbim (who is now Regfan):
As we all know, Kalbim was scummy as hell, so I will concentrate on Regfan's posts and try to se if he can convince me that he isn't scum.
Regfan saidthat he tries to make sure that the slot he replaces into is a good one (town), that being said, I have played a game with Regfan on another forum where he was a replacement and said the same thing (then he tried to get me lynched even though I was obv newbtown and then town got annihilated by scum in a clean sweep, but I totally don't hold a grudge or anything ) ANYWAYS... he was inno that time as well, but the VT claim makes me nervous, as most scum tend to try to claim that to avoid counterclaim.
That being said, he is very analytical and seems protown, but that may be because he is a good player.
So Regfan makes me feel better about that slot, but not enough to balance out Kalbim's scummines, I'm still leaning Mafia.

[Hyperion]

Next, I will do Seacore:
Since my last reread, nothing he has said has made me want to change my read on him (which was slight town), but lately his only contribution was the Jailkeeper scenario and pressuring Kalbim (which granted is what most people have done), and I don't know where he stands on everyone else, so @seacore, the following question:
Kalbim/Regfan is suddenly declared town for some reason (cop, jailkeeper, whatever), give reads on everyone else, and say who you think would be scum if Regfan was inno.

[Hyperion]

^above question is a hypothetical btw

[Hyperion]

SoraAdvent:
Seems very conciuous of what people think of him, constantly goes back to say that Kalbim is wrong for suspecting him because of Crabbyman's low postcount.
Hold on, I will finish this tomorrow, something just came up.

[Hyperion]

I haven't declared Regfan town, I said that he seems town but that he's a good player who would always seem town in his first couple of posts.

However, regardless of whether he is town or scum, his Jailkeeper plan is a good one.

I would like other people to weigh in on whether they think the Jailkeeper claiming plan is a good one.

I never said you did, that was a question (I know it didn't look like one, thats my bad), let me rephrase: If for some reason Regfan is automatically innocent because he is now an innocent child or something (I know that isn't going to happen but lets pretend) now who do you think is scum.

Hyperion, do you mind if I ask who you are? I'm assuming you're from westeroes - and played in Faradays game, the one I tried oh so hard to forget existed.

Yes I am from Westeros, my name is Greatjim Umber over there, and it was the Wheel of Time Game, where my alternate sign in was Aviendha and I played abysmally because it was my first game .

Also I don't see this wishy-washyness from Arinna at all.

It was just in that post, I always hate the use of "perhaps it just because of this..." because it makes me feel like the person is trying to create an escape route if they come under fire for their opinion.

You should read my points about why Seacore is town without a doubt, mostly the last one, the quicker that we collectively cut down and agree on players that can't be scum the easier this game will be.

I kind of suck at partner analyses and deciding who would do which kill, so thats why I didn't see eye-to-eye with you, I do see youpoint upon reread.


On the jailkeeper plan, I agree with i, because that CIs two people (the JK and the person he got last night) and possibly CIs another, not to mention, it may show us who scum is if we don't get a kill tonight, and he blocks someone.

[Hyperion]

I am also pro-JK claim.

It was just in that post, I always hate the use of "perhaps it just because of this..." because it makes me feel like the person is trying to create an escape route if they come under fire for their opinion.

I kind of see what you mean, but I don't think one can completely reject having said or thought something after saying "Perhaps it was just because of this, but bla bla bla." When I'm saying that, it's because I am aware of the risk of misperception, which does and has happened before. In any case, when I am close to being completely sure of something, I usually don't include that. Such as the posts about Kalbim. And I'm asking this because I'm a bit lazy to check, and I would not interpret what I've written the same way you would, do you remember me at any point using that "Perhaps it was just because of this..." to make an escape? (I don't consider this to be an important matter; however, it had come up before and I hadn't really said anything about it, so I wanted to write a reply this time.)

I know you haven't used it as an excuse, but I still do feel the need to point it out, mainly because I don't want ANYONE to post like that, so if I had not called you out on that (even though I am starting to think you are VPI) it would be hypocritical of me (or well maybe not hypocitical but I can't think of the right word)

Looks like this games at a stand still until we hear from LC and Sora gets replaced.

Yes I am from Westeros, my name is Greatjim Umber over there, and it was the Wheel of Time Game, where my alternate sign in was Aviendha and I played abysmally because it was my first game ..

Ah, I remember you. Sorry for my tunnel on you that game but from the looks of it you've improved drastically since then though!

Yeah I agree, I play much better now, definately having players who wouldn't take it easy on me just because I was new really helped me get better quicker.

Hey everybody, I'm replacing in for SoraAdvent. I'll be reading over the thread later today. ^^ Nice to be playing with y'all!

Hi Giitah, please make reads/comments ASAP so we can get this game back on track.

[Hyperion]

OK, so looking back through the entire game at Regfan's and Giitah's slots, with wonderfully awesome amazing insight and junk. Starting with Giitah (Crabbyman, SoraAdvent, Giitah)
Crabbyman- His one contribution was to say he had nothing to contribute, basically weaselled through the first half of the game.
Sora- He was rather wishywashy, and he seemed rather concerned about the way we percieved him, he felt the need to counter Kalbim's bad vote in Post 147. Recycles other peoples observations on other players in Post 152. Post 160 is a waffle house.
Giitah- has kind of been tunneling Regfan, the only other suspected slot. He posted originall reads, and hasn't even noticed people like Wombat since then. I think his only post about Seacore and Arinna was that we couldn't Ci them yet.

Will do Regfan's slot... evenytually.

[Hyperion]

regfans slot.
kalbim was horribly scummy, but regfan has been playing extremely protown imo. more so than giitah

[Hyperion]

VOTE: giitah

[Hyperion]

Wombat, can you please give reads on Giitah/Sora's slot and Regfan/Kalbim's slot because:
A) we need to figure out who is willing to lynch who
B) this game is starting to slow down again so we need to generate discussion.

I would still prefer a Giitah lynch, as his play has been much less pro-town than Regfan's.

[Hyperion]

Nice Job Everybody!!