Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
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Yup.
homertve wrote:Hi everyone,
Since I wasn't in the original game, I think I need to introduce myself.
I'm homer. I played this game before (off site) and this is my second game here (the first one is still ongoing after I was NK, so I think we're not allowed to talk about it).
VOTE: Syryana
Welcome to MS, homer!
Because he changed his vote too quickly.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Botched that up. Fixed.In post 10, Syryana wrote:Yup.
Welcome to MS, homer!homertve wrote:Hi everyone,
Since I wasn't in the original game, I think I need to introduce myself.
I'm homer. I played this game before (off site) and this is my second game here (the first one is still ongoing after I was NK, so I think we're not allowed to talk about it).
VOTE: Syryana
Because he changed his vote too quickly.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Are you for real?In post 17, Grimgroove wrote:VOTE: Syryana
A "yes" would have been more convincing than a "yup".In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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That's pretty much what happened.In post 19, Candillan wrote:Basically, Edos accidentally put the link to the Scum QT in the role PM examples. Crand saw them, and knew we were scum. He told Edos about this, and then asked to be replaced because he can't scumhunt when he knows who the scum are. Edos posted saying that Crand was being replaced because of the debacle, which ended up unintentionally confirming his slot as town. Because of that, Edos figured it would be better to just restart the game.
...At least that's what I think happened.
Pedit:
Grim, why are you re-RVSing?
Syryana, you too. Unless you believe that your vote on me was a legitimate vote.
I will answer your question to me in a bit.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I asked if you were for real because I couldn't tell if you were serious or trolling. And I'm not entirely sure what planet you're from, but on mine, yup means yes.In post 23, Grimgroove wrote:What do you mean, 'for real'? Don't you agree? A "yup" shows half-heartedness, where a "yes" would have shown more commitment to what you are saying.
@Candillan: because it keeps things moving. A single static random vote doesn't do it for me, I prefer to move it around for minor reasons and see where that takes me.
Here.In post 25, Grimgroove wrote:In post 13, Crandaja wrote:Hi everybody. Sorry for brutally crashing the last game into the ground!
VOTE: Ravenpaw
Calling me darling gives me bad vibes.
Where did she call you darling?
You didn't look very hard. Opportunistic much?In post 26, Grimgroove wrote:I can't see this anywhere, neither here or in the "title pending"-game.
Are you referring to your scumQT conversation and have we got a nice scumslip on our hands?
Let's see!
VOTE: Crandaja
(out of RVS)
VOTE: GrimgrooveIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I'm not so much defending Crand as attacking you. It raises my suspicions when someone that played the way you did last game (i.e. made great arguments and generally obvtowned the slot) starts shooting off half-cocked and making arguments like these (e.g. "darling, was that a SCUMSLIP?!" or "I don't like the word yup, you must be scum").In post 28, Grimgroove wrote:My mistake, but I only looked at the last couple of posts by Ravenpaw, which is only sensible.
I feel my point still stands.
Why on earth would Crandaja be referring to a word in a post made 12 days ago? Why would that kind of thing stick and why would bad vibes from that post be carried over to a new game?
He didn't mention it gave him bad vibes back then, why now?
I would also prefer it if you would let Crandaja answer that question this time around. Don't see why you're so eager jumping to his defense.
I do, however, like your point about the darling thing being last game. Seems pretty forced for an RVS post.
I didn't answer it because my re-RVS post/vote on you was intended to garner a reaction from you. I hadn't as yet gotten it, so I refused to answer Cand at that time. What I was looking for: if you were serious I figured it was an opportunistic attack to paint me as scummy early, since at the end of last game you admitted I'm one of the biggest obstacles to your scum wincon.Grimgroove wrote:Why not answer it right away? You even took your time exploring the other topic for the word "darling".
And about me being opportunistic, I don't think that's really an argument. I saw a possible scumslip, let my enthousiasm get me carried away and indeed saw an opportunity to lynch scum. Maybe it's opportunistic yes, but that kind of opportunism doesn't make me scum.
As for taking the time to look in the other thread, you directly said there was no mention of it in this thread or title pending. I decided to verify that statement. Turns out it was a lie and I nailed you for it.
And it is scummily opportunistic, because from my POV you seized on a silly thing, call it a scumslip, and voted Crand. Scum like mislynches.
My main beef with you right now is that in the last game you obvtowned like crazy; excellent logic, walls of well reasoned arguments, good reads. This game, you're hopping all over everywhere, attacking me, attacking Crand; it's shooting from the hip playstyle. I can't decide if you're this different because it's your town play or if you've drawn scum again and you're breaking from your own playstyle so as not to get caught.
While I'm chewing over that:
VOTE: CrandajaIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I'm gettin my reaction tests mixed with my reaction tests
The re-RVS was a reaction test on Cand
The question at Grim was looking for a response from GrimIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
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- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I would also like to point out that finding the darling thing took like 30 seconds
I highly recommend CTRL-F to everyone, as well as that little button that says ISO right next to the Post number of each post. It shows you all posts by that user by themselves.
It's really awesome for finding things some specific person has said quickly.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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This isn't the first time someone's scum-read me for having a jumpy vote. If you want, feel free to look at what happened in this game before the reroll; you can see the same behaviors there.In post 64, homertve wrote:You are quite right. I hate lurking.
Here's my thoughts at this point:
Syryana - He was the second one to vote Grimgroove, and then, right after the third vote to Grimgroove, he pulled his vote and moved it to somene else. Is it because Syryana and Grimgroove are scums? Did Syryana wanted his first vote to be on his scum-pal and then, when he saw a wagon coming he decided it was too risky?
You have a theory: Grim and I are scum together. However, in reference to this point, you are making the evidence fit the case, rather than making the case fit the evidence. I agree with you that the "yes vs. yup" argument was extremely stupid, but does the exchange between Grim and myself sound forced and planned? What about that exchange makes you think he and I are scum together?In post 64, homertve wrote:Grimgroove - His RVS was Candillan. He then started a very stupid "yes vs. yup" discussion. If my theory is right, it could be planned by those two in advance.
You are leaning town on Candillan because he pointed out the oddity in my post. Yet in the same post, he says he's leaning town on me for it. Why do you think that is? Also, did you see my reasoning near the bottom of that post as to why I'm voting Crand over Grim?In post 64, homertve wrote:Candillan - He points out in post 33 howSyryana's explainingGrimgrooveis a scum and then votingCrandis odd. I think it's another evidence of Syryana and Grimgroove both being scums. I hope I'm not tunneling here. Anyway, to me Candillan lean town right now.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Grim, you have my apologies. I did not intend to offend; where I come from "yes, yeah, yep, yup" etc. are all synonyms and to have someone claim otherwise just made my head explode.In post 68, Grimgroove wrote:I don't like my "yes vs yup"-thing being calledstupidseveral times now, but I guess that given the opinion of the majority, it was. I still don't like "yups" and I never will, but maybe we're from a different generation.
Anyway, regardless of this, even if it was stupid, there's only so many ways of getting out of an RVS asap, and I'm still glad we made it out relatively fast, even with half of the people not participating.
I'd tell you my reasoning behind it, but I can't discuss an ongoing game. Let me simply say I'm rather paranoid of derp Page 1 RVS lynches right now.homertve wrote:It's not the actual jumpiness, it's the timing. Here you did it right after he got his third vote. Before the reroll you just jumped from one to another (at least in the first three pages that I skimmed over there).
homertve wrote:
No, I didn't see any reasoning for that. Can you elaborate?In post 67, Syryana wrote:Also, did you see my reasoning near the bottom of that post as to why I'm voting Crand over Grim?In post 32, Syryana wrote:My main beef with you right now is that in the last game you obvtowned like crazy; excellent logic, walls of well reasoned arguments, good reads. This game, you're hopping all over everywhere, attacking me, attacking Crand; it's shooting from the hip playstyle. I can't decide if you're this different because it's your town play or if you've drawn scum again and you're breaking from your own playstyle so as not to get caught.
While I'm chewing over that:
VOTE: CrandajaIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Ohhh, I see now. You weren't asking why I wasn't voting Grim, you're asking why I'm voting Crand. I'm retarded. That paragraph I linked is about Grim.In post 72, homertve wrote:Syryana - Oh, wait, did you mean that in 32 you were referring to Cran in the last paragraph? I thought you were still talking about Grimgroove!
I'm voting Crand because I found it suspicious that his RVS reason to vote Raven was based on a post made two weeks ago. I didn't know why that stuck in his mind and I was pressure voting him. Now I'm thinking about it, this was his response:
His response was interestingly defensive. I mean, it was an RVS vote, so why get so defensive about it? In this post, Crand:In post 45, Crandaja wrote:I have some problems with this. You ask where she called me darling, then 25 minutes later you say you can't see it in Title Pending. ISO button makes it really easy to see all of Raven's posts and one of the only interactions we had between one another was the one where she called me darling. Its really not hard to find if you looked in that thread (which you said yourself you did) especially not in 25 minutes.
I think your first statement that its only sensible to check the last few messages is flawed. If you think its not important to check the thread than it wouldn't have been so important for you to not find it there. Without doing the search how would you know if she said it or not? Why do you assume its from the scum QT without reading the whole thread?
When I was doing an RVS at the start of this game i didn't want to vote Grim right away to avoid getting him too close to L-1 without any discussion. I saw Ravenpaw's post and decided to vote her as my RVS. It was the only thing I really remember about her from last game.
Also Cand why do you keep putting the third vote on people so quickly without discussion? You've done this twice already in this game alone and I don't like it.- Attacks Grim for not noticing that Raven called Crand darling in the previous game (note, I had already done so and over half his post is dedicated to lashing Grim for not noticing/not properly using search tools)
- Defends his RVS vote by explaining he wanted to vote for Grim but didn't want to put him at L-1 (nobody asked him this question, so why is he answering it, again overdefensive)
- Asks Cand why he keeps putting the third vote on people (it looks like a deflection, note how he implies Cand is scummy for putting people at L-2)
In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I want votes/reads from Rach and shaboo.
I'm still pretty happy with my Crand vote, though.
Cand case is interesting, we'll have to see where it goes.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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What are you trying to say here? What am I trying to do?In post 140, Crandaja wrote:The only thing I see from Syryana is his case against me (hence his vote) and while I don't agree with it I get what he's trying to do so I don't have a great read on him.
I was going to mention how weird #141 was, but Cand beat me to it.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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- Always Andy
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Why not?In post 155, Ravenpaw wrote:I don't find him scummy anymore.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
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Grim, if you can't restrain yourself we're going to have to take steps.In post 166, Grimgroove wrote:I am calm.
This.LnGrrrR wrote:Here's the thing Candy (and others): If I were to give null reads to town comments, just because that person was scum once, then nearly every "townie" comment could be misconstrued as as a scum/null one.
What you're suggesting is that Grimgroove couldn't possibly provide any townie vibes his game, because any townie vibes could theoretically be scum vibes. I don't feel like poisoning that well.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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SO MANY WALLS, I MAKE MOAR
Can you link where Grim is contradicting himself? Also, why does the yes vs. yep argument indicate Grim is scum?In post 171, Crandaja wrote:As I said before its not OMGUS. I don't care about you voting me but you made a pretty significant accusation and contradicted yourself instantly. This and the ridiculous yes vs. yep paint you as a scum.
I assume you mean ISO, not IC? I will be interested to see your cases.In post 173, Grimgroove wrote:Candillan, Crandaja, Ravenpaw are in my top 3 scumreads. I'm planning to give a full reads list (probably tomorrow) of every player here to clarify this. Need to IC some more people.
Shaboostein is not being replaced yet, I don't think? What rubbed you the wrong way about Crand's post?In post 174, Grimgroove wrote:
Since shaboostein is being replaced, and this really rubbed me the wrong way:In post 171, Crandaja wrote: This and the ridiculous yes vs. yep paint you as a scum.
You, I like you.In post 177, LnGrrrR wrote:Grim, I think the yes vs yep argument was pretty weak too, but it was coming soon after RVS and it was an attempt to generate discussion/content, which is why I don't see it as that scummy. If you had pulled that argument now that we have decent data to go through I would've found it much worse.
Do elaborate. I liked that post.In post 179, Grimgroove wrote:PS: This post gave me massive scumvibes. Hard to put my finger on why it does, but I'll try to elaborate later.
What conclusions do you make about the lack of activity from myself and Raven?In post 180, Grimgroove wrote:So much to do! I guess I should be glad activity is so low here. What is it with you guys? It's even worse than before, on top of RachMarie and shaboo being their usual inactive selves, Ravenpaw seems to have decided to join them and also Syryana seems less involved than last time.
There is a scumslip in here. Town points to whomever finds it!In post 180, Grimgroove wrote:Why is it a bad thing to pressure you? If you're town, pressure brings out the town in you. There's no need to be so sensitive to someone trying to pressure you.
Starting from the second sentence you're dismissing what I said with mere hollow phrases but you did not prove that my argument does not make sense. It does. I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did. It makes absolutely no sense to do this as scum: the risk of it flying back into my face far outweighs the supposed benefit of pressuring someone you know is town based on a false argument. If you know it's a false argument, you know the pressure is not going to ammount to anything. I didn't know it was a false argument, and therefore used it until shown otherwise.
What do you think of Candillan?In post 183, Ravenpaw wrote:
Yeah I realise I should be giving this game a lot more (as well as my others) but there's just a lot on my plate atm. Sorry.In post 180, Grimgroove wrote: So much to do! I guess I should be glad activity is so low here. What is it with you guys? It's even worse than before, on top of RachMarie and shaboo being their usual inactive selves, Ravenpaw seems to have decided to join them and also Syryana seems less involved than last time.
You need to not WIFOM too. And self meta is dumb, yes (I personally think it's scummy, which is why I threw a fit about it last game)In post 188, Candillan wrote:So Grim could be town or scum, and you're pretty much hoping he's town with the knowledge that he could be pulling the wool over your eyes easily? Don't wifom him to scum, just don't be so quick to call him town.
What if he isn't night killed so scum can pin him as scum in LyLo? That's what scum did with me in 1335, because I could easily be pinned as scum.
Also, self meta is also dumb. Don't trust that. Especially when the game he also did it in was a scum game. >_>
Why?In post 190, Candillan wrote:
Hard to say. As I've stated before, I've been having a tough time of assembling reads this game.In post 189, Grimgroove wrote:What is your read on me?
There's a scumslip in here too.In post 193, Candillan wrote:How am I "walking it back"? I'm saying that I don't have a good read on anyone in this game. (Aside from Homer and Syryana, of course.) All the rest of you are null, and I'm having trouble discerning which two are scum. How is that scummy?
Yes, but that doesn't address what I was saying. My point is that it's odd that you'd write him off as town so early when he's been doing the same things he did as scum. You shouldn't do that.
If you think I'm scum, who would be my partner?
Pedit:
Oh, no, it was that I was an easy wagon in that game. They kept me alive to wagon me to death in LyLo.
Similar situation, though. It was a "how come he's still alive?" situation at its fundamentals.
Also, I was town that game.
Are you really going to only suspect Grim if he gets to D3 and is still alive?
LET THE NEWBIE 1368 SCUMSLIP SCAVENGER HUNT BEGIN!
VOTE: CandillanIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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In post 199, Candillan wrote:Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?
Yes, it would have. You don't get town points for finding your own scumslip!
Funny call on Grim, I missed it.
Oh, did you find that one too?
I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.
2. Those odds are extremely low.
3. I'm still town.
This is quite possibly the most awful rebuttal I've ever seen. Sorry, but good lord. Of course you don't find the interactions between the two of you suspicious. Appeal to probability confirms your alignment.
Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.
Or you're scum, and you're not wanting to call any of us town because you need to mislynch people. Besides, finding teams is a complete waste of time on Day 1.
Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?
I flipped a coin.
Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.
Because his posts come from a town mindset.
If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?
It probably got lost in the walls or I wasn't paying attention.
UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~
If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:
TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM
I forgot to ask, why are me and homer town again?
Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.
No. I'm also rather disappointed you didn't attack Cand's last post.In post 203, Grimgroove wrote:I find the "of course" part in Candillan calling Homer and Syryana town odd. There's very little that is evident about the statement, unless speaking from the perspective of scum knowing who's town.
Not calling this a slip myself, but I could imagine Syryana's talking about this?
Let the rest look for it. Neither of you are getting points for finding scumslips.In post 204, Candillan wrote:I did find something. Not sure if it's what he found, though.
In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I dismissed it with a no because I thought you were saying that was the slip. You also didn't directly ask Cand about it.In post 208, Grimgroove wrote:PS: you just asked the same question to Candillan (why he thinks you and Homer are town), yet you dismissed my post where I did it with a simple "no".
This makes me a hurt gladiatorIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
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Of course you think it's weak. He's your scumbuddy. And what did I forget to reply to?In post 216, Grimgroove wrote:Syryana, you forgot to reply in your eagerness to dismiss my percieved scumslip from Candillan. Also, when it comes to scumslip, the one you pinted out from Candillan is dissappointingly weak. When I think of "scumslip" I think of something scum would say that would incriminate close to 100%. Like a reference to a QT for example. Not something that can be interpreted in any way, or which simply consitutes a choice of formulation. Scumslips are about meaning, not formulation.
If you buddied me any harder...In post 218, Candillan wrote:I'm sorry that you have to read through the meta discussion, blegh.
@Grim, I think that scumslip was quite the nice catch, actually. Unfortunately, it wasn't actually a slip.
I will reveal Grim's scumslip later today. I was hoping to hear from the new people/Raven/Rach first. Also, Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment.In post 220, homertve wrote:I like the way Grim analyzes things. It gets him some town points in my view (BTW, Syryana, where's the scumslip in Grim's post? I can't find it). However, I didn't understand this part:
I think the "of course" part is just a reference to a previous post, in which he said this:In post 203, Grimgroove wrote:I find the "of course" part in Candillan calling Homer and Syryana town odd. There's very little that is evident about the statement, unless speaking from the perspective of scum knowing who's town.
Not calling this a slip myself, but I could imagine Syryana's talking about this?
Rach, I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked you in 136.In post 118, Candillan wrote:I am seriously trying to gather reads, but I've been terrible at it this time around. I do seriously see Homer and Syryana as townie, though. I was leaning town on you, but your jumping on this case is making me doubt that somewhat. It seems a wee bit too convenient.
Also, if you really saw this as being so scummy, why aren't you voting me?
imkingdavid and mkfuba07, welcome! As soon as you catch up, I want to here your thoughts on the game so far.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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This?In post 201, Grimgroove wrote:It felt like trying to get a piece of both sides of the argument, trying to soothe both me and Crandaja. The fact that if I would use the "yes yep" thing later in the game is entirely irrelevant (I didn't and will not), yet he's adding it. If find this addition very odd, and the motives I see: 1. He's trying to make up for his "buddying" towards me (calling me town while nobody else does, there's even disagreement on how similar I act compared to the previous game from what I gather, yet he's claiming that I do behave the same. Even I disagree with that, given the negative attention I have not been entirely able to get into the game as much as I'd like to) by awkwardly showing others I'm not outside of his scope of criticism. 2. As I personally feel this entire yep-yes thing has been dragging on long enough, I also see it as an easy way to come off as a sensible guy who sees both sides of the story. Too easy and with no added value. Why do you like it so much?
Well, he's agreeing with Crand that the "yes vs yep" thing was a silly argument, but he doesn't see it as scummy like Crand did because of the timing of the argument. It doesn't read like buddying to me and scum would be more interested in coming down on one side or another in the hopes of getting a mislynch.
This may sound a bit arrogant (and if it does my apologies), but if you can fool me as thoroughly as you did last game I'm fine making the assumption that you can look town as either alignment, particularly since you have admitted you play the same way regardless.Grimgroove wrote:How would you know? You only knew me as scum in the previous game, and now you're supposedly assuming I'm scum as well.
Pedit: Trying to drag this into WIFOM-land?In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Of the points in that leprechaun-flavored quote; I have responded already to points 3 and 5, point 1 I am still waiting on, point 4 is your answer to my question, point 2 is also no longer of relevance since I'm not interested in Crand anymore.
So I'm not entirely sure what you're wanting a full response to.
The scumslips are not WIFOM. Your response to Candillan's was.Grimgroove wrote:It was already WIFOM to start with, don't pretend otherwise.
Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Ah, I thought you were saying the scumslip itself was WIFOM. Fair enough.In post 230, Grimgroove wrote:You claiming that my response to Candillan's scumslip is easily explained by him being my buddy is WIFOM.
Why aren't you interested in Crand anymore? Simply because he's replaced? the slot got an entire refresh? You realize the slot has still the same role behind it, do you?
Post 178 is as much about me as it is about Crand. What do you think about it? What was it that made you interested in the answer to your question (2) and why isn't it anymore?
How do you read Ravenpaw?
As a general rule, I like to get input from replacements. I don't erase what their predecessor did but I do like to judge the replacement on their own merits.
Wrt 178: He was being anti-town about it, yes. I don't see it as scummy, though. You go after him, he OMGUS' you, then tunnels you thereafter. Seen it happen with newbies before. Hell, I've done it myself.
I was interested in fleshing out your thought process. I thought Crand was scummy myself and wanted to know how your reasons matched up with mine. Since I've now found the scumteam, I no longer care.
What is it with people buddying me this game? First Candyland with all his "Syr is so town" stuff and now you with the "Caesar/Emperor" comments.In post 231, Grimgroove wrote:Into the arena I go, my emperor.
I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?In post 231, Grimgroove wrote:In post 199, Candillan wrote:Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?
I still find this laughable when it comes to scumslips. I hope for your sake you have a better one on me, considering how you've been raising expectations.
Funny call on Grim, I missed it.
Like I said earlier: I think he's pretending he found it. Late ron he claims to have "misread the quote" and dropped the whole thing. Very silly. Would still like to see how he misread it, and what it was he saw.
I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.Bad argument, but it doesn't change the fact that it's up to you (Syryana) to show where they're bad in order for you to back up your opinion on me and Candillan being scumbuddies.
2. Those odds are extremely low.Very bad argument indeed.
3. I'm still town.Meh, not a tell either way.
Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.
IWondering why he's not trying a different approach if his current one isn't working. But I also see some possible pairs so I do get what he's trying to say. (Crandaja-Ravenpaw; Syryana-LnGrrrR, for example)
Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?fair question
Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.fair question
If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?fair question. Surprised you didn't refer to the fact we had a discussion about self-meta in the previous game, where I already made my point on self-meta clear. Why would you use it against me now, when you didn't then?
UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~
If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:
TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM
Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.
I'm not sharing your scumslip because I want to see if anyone else finds it. Besides, watching you squirm makes me giggle.In post 231, Grimgroove wrote:PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?
I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).
A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.
About your scumreads: Candillan's in there for show. Look at your voting patterns. You voted him once early early on in the game (in RVS actually) and you haven't touched him since. If Candyland gets lynched, or close, you can bus him with almost no repercussion. However, judging from your knee-jerk reaction to my scumslip proclamation (e.g. can't find the slip, calling it lame, not attacking Candillan's horrendous rebuttal until I mention it), you weren't serious about your scumread on him. Though you've made any number of references to things Candillan's done you don't like, you've never made any effort to push a wagon on him.
Because you don't think it's legit.In post 232, Grimgroove wrote:
Why did you put scumslip in between " "s here?In post 229, Syryana wrote: Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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I forgot to answer this. Answer: I dunno, she's being a lurky-pants.In post 230, Grimgroove wrote:How do you read Ravenpaw?In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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And the gloves come off. It's about damn time. I'll be breaking my responses into smaller, easier to read posts.
In post 235, Grimgroove wrote:In post 233, Syryana wrote:As a general rule, I like to get input from replacements. I don't erase what their predecessor did but I do like to judge the replacement on their own merits.
How does this compute with "I'm not interested in Crand anymore"? (post 229
Wrt 178: He was being anti-town about it, yes. I don't see it as scummy, though. You go after him, he OMGUS' you, then tunnels you thereafter. Seen it happen with newbies before. Hell, I've done it myself.
Why did you think he was scummy, if not that?
Originally the "darling" comment and I found his responses inadequate.
I was interested in fleshing out your thought process. I thought Crand was scummy myself and wanted to know how your reasons matched up with mine. Since I've now found the scumteam, I no longer care.
Your conviction is either has proven to be a powerful tool in the past and you're using it with bad intentions, or I'm afraid we're dealing with a "Caesar".
Caesar indeed. Do elaborate.
What is it with people buddying me this game? First Candyland with all his "Syr is so town" stuff and now you with the "Caesar/Emperor" comments.In post 231, Grimgroove wrote:Into the arena I go, my emperor.
Do you seriously consider this at buddying? My goodness . I thought the reference is clear. Twice when I've used this symbolism it was referring to your attitude of pitching me against Candillan, just like Caesar would do to his gladiators. You sit there on your tribune and let us sort it out. I'm playing along but don't think I don't notice what you're doing. I don't like these puppetmaster-questions, as the "assignments" you give already show your clear bias.
Ah, you're being insulting. I see. So, I'm Caesar because I'm pitting you and Candillan against each other, is that it? Kindly point out where I'm "playing the puppetmaster". Also, since you apparently find this behavior scummy (you've certainly implied it) why haven't you confronted me about it instead of making snide little comments?
I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?
Scummier, mainly because of his 3 numbered points. Now you answer the questions contained therein please. I get the feeling you've been buying an awful lot of time for yourself lately.
I have answered all the questions contained therein in #207. Again with the insinuations.
I'm not sharing your scumslip because I want to see if anyone else finds it. Besides, watching you squirm makes me giggle.In post 231, Grimgroove wrote:PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?
I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).
A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.
Squirming? Misrep.
No, interpretation.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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This is important, so it gets its own quote. You have misrepped what I said. My point was not that you never had a Candillan scumread, or that you cannot have more than one read/argument/whatever at a time. I said that of your scumreads, Candillan is the one you have pushed the least. In your 60+ post ISO, you have four posts indicating a scumread on his slot: your agreement with LnGrrrR's case (#108), your ISO of Candillan (#112), your response to Candillan's response (#152), and the post where you call Candillan one of your top three scumreads (#173).In post 235, Grimgroove wrote:Other priorities. You can only have one vote on one person at a time. Are you saying that when you have your vote against someone, you don't have any arguments against anyone else? That you don't bother to make comments about them? Even if I didn't vote, I'd like to think my comments on Candillan helped other people to think about him in a scummy light. What do you think of the references I did make? Did they sound insincere by themselves, or just because there was no vote accompanying them.
My point here is, though you have made a few mentions of what you find scummy in Candillan, you have made no move to push his wagon or pursue that read. It is especially noticeable when Candillan makes what is (in my opinion) the scummiest post in the game, #199, you don't even glance at it twice, instead concentrating on me pretty much to exclusion of all else until I directly ask you to look at it. That's why I feel your scumread on Candillan is not genuine.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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And yet you do not find it odd, given Candillan's eagerness to show himself town in both this game and the prior, that he simply stops doing so in that post? Given his state of mind at the time (I believe he admitted a couple of posts later that he hadn't slept in 48 hours, the madman) do you find it feasible that he suddenly stops playing what seems to be his normal game and directly implies he is not town?In post 255, Grimgroove wrote:I'd also like to make yet another additional point on Candillan's supposed scumslip.
What everyone is doing, both town and scum, is somehow conveying the message that they're town, in between the lines. Some are more blunt and state it directly, but that would be showing a certain eagerness to show that you're town that is not appreciated by everone.
Fate has it that this happened in this very topic, on the first page. Candillan stated in caps that he's town this time. Syryana changed his RVS vote (let's assume re-RVS) and said Candillan was too eager to show he's town. Granted, it was a possible RVS and therefore not necessarily a serious motivation, but it could be taken as one. I myself don't find the simple statement "I'm town" convincing at all, and in fact think it has a more scummy aura around it.
Anyway, moving to the "scumslip". Candillan said "I was town that game", Syryana would have preferred "I was town that game, too".
Given the RVS argument, I can easily see Syryana use the wording he supposedly preferred against Candillan just as easily, by saying he's too eager in emphasizing he's town in this game.
This wasn't a scumslip. This was simply Candillan not being over-eager to state he's town (for a change).
Given Syryana used both arguments (though yes, once he used it in RVS), it seems like he's betting on any horse that could get Candillan lynched, even if they're running in opposite directions.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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If it was just a hint it wouldn't bug me so much. I'll dig through your ISO for examples in a minute.In post 264, Candillan wrote:It isn't buddying. It's a read. I read you as town. That comes with a lack of suspicion angled your way with an added hint of friendliness for not being scum. Sorry if that doesn't float your boat.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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I think many of you are operating under a chicken and egg misinterpretation here. I am not calling you and Grim a scumteam due to associative tells (indicators the two of you are a team). I am saying that you made a scumslip and Grim made a scumslip. Since there are only two scum team members, that means that since you scumslipped and he scumslipped, you must be a team together. Looking at the interactions between the two of you this game, I find the idea plausible. I have not at any point pushed the idea that the interactions between the two of you are scummy, merely that they do not show you aren't.In post 268, Candillan wrote:Syryana, do you honestly think Grim and I are a scumteam? That push is quite odd, to be honest. I don't understand how you could see our interactions as being scummy, and your points on this don't make sense to me. You're saying that we're scumbuddies because the way we're acting independently is scummy, and also that the way Grim is interacting with me is scummy. What do you think of the way I interact with Grim?In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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The slip is the bolded. Grim is arguing that he would not have used the scumtell approach if he knew for a fact that it was not true, since it would come back to bite him in the ass. (For reference, the scumtell-approach referred to here is the "darling" comment, see post #26).In post 180, Grimgroove wrote:Why is it a bad thing to pressure you? If you're town, pressure brings out the town in you. There's no need to be so sensitive to someone trying to pressure you.
Starting from the second sentence you're dismissing what I said with mere hollow phrases but you did not prove that my argument does not make sense. It does.I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did.It makes absolutely no sense to do this as scum: the risk of it flying back into my face far outweighs the supposed benefit of pressuring someone you know is town based on a false argument. If you know it's a false argument, you know the pressure is not going to ammount to anything. I didn't know it was a false argument, and therefore used it until shown otherwise.
In context, Grim is arguing with Crandaja. Crand thought Grim was scummy for interpreting the "darling" RVS vote as a scumtell. Grim counters by arguing that he would not use such an approach as scum. He says specifically:
So Grim's argument is that he's not scummy because using such an approach as scum when he knows the accusation is false would be ludicrous. However, since Grim didIn post 180, Grimgroove wrote:I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did.notknow the accusation was false (he admits he did not notice the "darling" comment came from the previous game, I caught him on that myself), he essentially admits here that he did in fact use the scumtell-approach. Look at his word choice: "I would not have used". Not "I would not use" or "Using that approach would be foolish", etc. He admits he used the approach.
If we temper the above statement with the following facts:
Grim did not know the accusation was false.
Grim used the scumtell approach.
The statement becomes:
Ergo, Grimgroove is scum and tried to force a mislynch on Crandaja.In post 180, Grimgroove wrote:I used the scumtell-approach because I didn't know it wasn't true.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Not deliberately, no.In post 276, Candillan wrote:I'm not implying I'm not town ever, lol.
Wouldn't that be playing against my wincon?
Yeah but the fact that you bring up Grim's ways of dealing with me, you're talking association. You can't say you aren't.
What if one of us flips town?
It would be if you did it deliberately. That's why they refer to it as a slip, since it's unintentional.
That's true. I am saying that associatively, it makes sense for you and Grim to be partners based on the interactions between you. I was merely clarifying that those associations are not what led me to the scumreads on you two as individuals.
Then I will re-evaluate my stances.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Hypothesis: "I wouldn't do this as scum if I knew it was wrong."In post 277, Grimgroove wrote:I still don't see your point I'm afraid.
Evidence: "I did this."
"I did not know it was wrong."
Conclusion: "I did this as scum."
I don't know of a better way to put it.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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Forgot to go back to it. The two statements have nothing to do with each other. I'm not interested in Crand because I've got two solid scum candidates. If I were interested in Crand, I would judge his predecessor on his own merits (which his intro post was excellent, by the by).In post 280, Grimgroove wrote:No reply?
Because your snide little comments were lacking in clarity. If I were to refer to someone as "my emperor", that seems to me a clear acknowledgment of superiority, which I interpreted as buddying.In post 280, Grimgroove wrote:I have confronted you with it. I was under the assumption the "little snide comments" were not lacking in clarity. And you did notice in the end, didn't you? Still don't see how you could possibly percieve this as buddying.
Hah, that's not puppeteering, that's trying to get you to take a stance on Candillan's scumposting, which up to that point you were staunchly refusing to do.In post 280, Grimgroove wrote:Where you're playing the puppetmaster:
post 207: "No. I'm also rather disappointed you didn't attack Cand's last post."
post 229: "Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)" (referring to the same post)
post 233: "I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?"
Your Caesar comments leap to mind. Several comments on "squirming", "buying more time", etc. Subtly implying that just about every damn thing I do is scum-motivated.In post 280, Grimgroove wrote:1. Again? I never made insinuations unless I have something to back them up, making them more than just insinuations. Show me where I made insinuations before.
Just restate the questions.In post 280, Grimgroove wrote:2. You didn't. I see two questions you hadn't answered at the time, and only one you half-answered at this point. The questions are about my interactions with Candillan and about my stance on self-meta.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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You scumslipped again. Town wouldn't be concerned about whether or not I "had something" on them.In post 280, Grimgroove wrote:Looking at my supposed scumslip I'm even more confident in saying you've got absolutely nothing on me.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
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...I feel really fucking stupid. Like ungodly stupid.
Why is this a bad thing? At least something useful came out of my dumbfuckery.imkingdavid wrote:That being said, I hate that in my mind I am able to use this logic to clear Grim as a townie.
Fair enough. What do you think of Cand/Grim's responses to my accusations?imkingdavid wrote:Unless I'm missing something, your case against him here is a twisting of words to make him look scummy. I did not like your supposed Candi "scum slip", and I do not like this supposed Grim "scum slip". I am happy with my vote where it is.
Yeah, we've established I'm a damned idiot. I'm curious though; if I'm scum like you think, what's the point of saying the bolded? As scum the whole point of my existence is to be a detriment to the town. Why are you telling me to stop being anti-town if you believe me to be scum?Syryana wrote:There is no scum motive in saying that; I was falsely accused of attempting to shoplift from a jewelry store and simply stated a fact that the accuser had no evidence to convict me of anything.I think you need to stop fabricating scum slips in posts just to further your agenda, which I can only assume is detrimental to the town as a whole.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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- Pronoun: He/Him
Largely because I got to the point of confirmation bias about it. I reread the post today, and I realized that what I thought were deflections were actually just legitimate questions and that I was placing too much importance on Candillan's appeal to probability.In post 290, homertve wrote:Why do you think it's "the scummiest post in the game"? I think at this point you are trying to deflect us from your scumslip to other's supposed scumslips.
I liked the way David analyzed things. I think your 289 is you trying to cover your not-so-honest mistakes and I don't think you are a "dumb" or "idiot". I think you're just a scum.
What is it with all these replacements requests in this game? Is it normal?
I did not make a scumslip.
When I flip town, who will be your scumreads?In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
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- Pronoun: He/Him
I'm not interested in credit. Stuff happened, Grim townread resulted.In post 291, imkingdavid wrote:No big deal, but for the record, the last quote in your post (#289) you have attributed to yourself, when I actually said it.
Noted.In post 291, imkingdavid wrote:Scum slip: "is to be" vs "would be to be"
It's the same thing you tried to pull on Grim.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
You're fine, I'm not offended. And I didn't realize it when you said it because you did not explain the logical jumps in simple words of one syllable or less like david did. Besides I was so far convinced you were the scum you could probably have posted your role PM and I'd have called you a liar at that point.In post 296, Grimgroove wrote:Sorry to hear that but why is it only after imkingdavid said his thing you realized this? I said almost the exact same thing with regards to my supposed slip in 284 and you didn't even respond to that.
@Imkingdavid: If you're not comfortable with that reasoning making me almost as good as conftown, you can always try taking it into WIFOM, but I don't think that would be a healthy exercise.
About the Caesar-thing I feel I have to insist on apologizing again (without expecting Syryana to accept those apologies, but I kind of feel bad about it), but I really felt the comparison was more funny than mean at the time. At least it was meant this way. I happen to like metaphors and thought it worked quite well in this case. I shall refrain from this practice in the future.
I'll take a look at David's logic again later after I get done responding to the rest of this.
Pedit: Okay.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
Why not? What do you think of the arguments against me? What do you think of my "scumslip"?In post 301, LnGrrrR wrote:I don't think Syr is scum, I don't think Grim is scum. The argument felt pretty townie from both sides, both of them defending their viewpoints and pointing out various points about the others.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
I'll deal with the part of this that concerns me first, this topic has more than enough walls in it.
You're absolutely right, on both counts. IIn post 302, Grimgroove wrote:Post 67 I find interesting for two reasons, and both show Syryana having been a bit hypocritical later on in this topic: 1. He's using self-meta, something he later (and before) claimed to hate. When Candillan asked him why Syryana hadn't critisized my use of self-meta (when I referred to making silly arguments to try start off the Title Pending game just like I did here with yes-yep), Syryana said it was mainly because he missed it in the midst of walls (post 207). I think it was because this attack would have made him an obvious hypocrit. 2. He says homertv is making a mistake by assuming Syryana-Grimgroove is a scumpair and then later try to make the evidence fit the case. Syryana did the same thing with me and Candillan.diduse self-meta even though I hate it. I also am guilty of the same thing I warned homer against: I found what I thought were damning scumslips from both of you and went balls to the wall to prove myself right.
I was making an "Anger Management-esque" joke at you, yes. I was in fact leaning town on you at the time. Then, in my next post, I was approximately like "Is that... yes! It's a scumslip!", at which point the whole balls to the wall snowball started.In post 302, Grimgroove wrote:His post 169 sounds odd because of the sarcastic joke. I take it he agrees with me I'm in no need to calm down. While this post gives off the vibes I'm leaning town for him, there's a drastic switch in his next post 198 where the scumslip thing starts. About that I don't feel like adding too much, as I feel an adequate summary has been given by imkingdavid in post 253. I would like to point out Syryana's own scumslip in post 222, where he claims that I'm able to appear reasonable as either alignment. Given he only saw me as confscum, it's as if he's implying I'm conftown here in this phrase. Only scum would know I'm town but not treat me as such. I realize it's debatable but I find this slip more telling than the ones he had on me or Candillan.
Again, it's not a scumslip. I was mightily impressed at how townie you looked as scum last game and I find it a reasonable assumption to make that you can do it as town too. So I was telling homer (albeit in a roundabout way) that being reasonable and logical is not a towntell for you; it is null.
Not that I expect you to believe me, but the bolded is exactly what happened, for the record.In post 302, Grimgroove wrote:Syryana's my main scumread, BUT I'm wary of a tunnel. His attack on me was quite intense and given my personal involvement I want to be wary of any OMGUS'ing or tunneling because of what happened. The switch in 198 was very striking, and right now I feel it's scummy.But the possibility exists this is just Syryana getting carried away with the scumslips he found, convincing himself he's right up to the point of no return.I was almost on the same track in my case against Crandaja but I got proven wrong more quickly (also because I shared the scumslip I thought I found immediately). But the fact that his arguments don't sound "honest" still makes him scummy in my book. Another reason why the argument would hold up for me but not for him is that the Crandaja-scumslip I found was objectively refutable, while those Syryana tried to use were more debatable and open to subjective interpretation, making it entirely possible for people to follow his train of thought. It's only when imkingdavid stated his opinion that Syryana turned around his cart, claiming he was feeling stupid.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
I don't even know anymore Cand, I need to step back from this game for a while. Come back later, with a clear head, reread everything. Most of my viewpoints are tainted by bias in one way or another at this point.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
I actually have been around and posting on site. I've just been deliberately avoiding this game; as I said in my earlier post I wanted to leave for a bit and come back with a clear head, as my game before I left was pitiful and frankly unacceptable. I needed a few days to air out and get a fresh perspective.In post 355, Candillan wrote:Nice catch on how Syryana hasn't been here since his 180. I didn't really notice, but that may just be because it's the weekend. Almost no one posts here anyway. I wouldn't expect much from the weekend, lol.
I'll be rereading the game more in depth later tomorrow, but I can say just from looking at recent posting that RachMarie is getting very suspect. She still hasn't done anything except pressure another lurker slot; no reads, no desire to move the game along, nothing. Heck, she didn't even comment on the large mess that was me vs. Grim. That said:
VOTE: RachMarie
Furthermore, I can now say with nearly 100% certainty that both Grimgroove and Candillan are town. Here's why:In post 315, Grimgroove wrote:I somehow find Syryana's defense strangely convincing, despite the lack of actual arguments. It just sounds very genuine. Not really sure what to make of that.In post 313, Candillan wrote:The things that made Syryana go Town-->Scum were the Slip Grim pointed out and the sudden 180 on Grim.
In the above quotes, you can see both Grim and Candillan are expressing reluctance towards my lynch. There's a decent case against me: the "scumslip", the 180 on Grim, "twisting words to make people look scummy" etc. Both Grim and Cand know what a pain in the butt I can be, both from this game and the previous one. Here they both have a golden opportunity to mislynch me and come off smelling like roses, yet Cand outright refuses to lynch me (though he now has a scumread) and Grim expresses reluctance and doubt since he believes my departure posts were genuine. I do not believe either player would pass up this opportunity to lynch me if they were scum, not when both have fairly ironclad reasons to see me strung up. Therefore, both are town.In post 355, Candillan wrote:It could be taken as an AtE, but I'm just stating the facts as is. I'm not sold on a Syryana lynch, as I would prefer a LnGrrrR lynch.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
A couple of things I noticed from homer:
I meant "when". It may be an "if" for you, but it's a "when" for me. Who are your "other suspects" and why? I'm assuming you are not including {shaboo/mkfuba, Rach} in the list given the structure of the sentence.In post 320, homertve wrote:First, you mean "if", not "when".
Second - Well, I do have other suspects as I already said before and there are other players to consider, such as shaboostein / mkfuba07, or rach, that didn't answer to what I asked her on 136 for example. Also, she almost didn't say anything about anyone except david.
You are using the term "bus" correctly, homer. It means that one scum partner is attempting to get another lynched in order to gain town cred. However, I ask you this: Assuming I am scum and Candillan is my partner, why would I attempt to bus him on Day 1, particularly when he's not in any particular danger of being lynched?In post 337, homertve wrote:Ok, I think you are referring to the "I was town that game" scumslip, right, Grim?
Well, I can see how they both scum, and one of them (Syryana) is trying to buss(*) the other one (Candillan). It wasn't a great attack to begin with ("I was town that game" as opposed to "I was town that game too") and he did thought at that time he caught you in another scumslip, so he would have the chance to divert his vote to you. I'm not saying they both have to be scum together, but IMO it is a possibility. Is it too far fetched?
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(*) - I hope I'm using the term "buss" in the right context. Itisonly my second game on this site.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
You don't have a beard. Besides, the very fact you would even bring this up proves my point, at least about you.In post 357, Candillan wrote:MAH BEARD
IT HATH BEEN STROKED
Uhm but in all actuality you can't confirm us as town just because we're against a potentially easy mislynch. In fact, one of the reasons why I lost 1335 was because I saw someone as being town due to them not wanting to jump on a mislynch wagon.
Also, I'm not saying you're town purely because you're avoiding an easy mislynch, I'm saying you're town because you're avoiding mislynchingme. After the events of last game I find it highly unlikely you'd pass up an opportunity to get me dead with no repercussions. Hence the townread.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
You misunderstand. I'm not townreading them for actions they took this game; I'm townreading them for opinions they expressed in postgame w.r.t. threats to their scumgame. I find it terribly hard to believe that they'd pass up an easy opportunity to mislynch me in this current situation after admitting that I'm a big obstacle to them winning as scum.In post 361, imkingdavid wrote:Last game has no bearing on this game. If someone were to want to jump on someone this game based on something (anything) from last game, I would find that scummy. However, just because someone doesn't jump on someone for something in the previous game doesn't make them town; it's just expected that that wouldn't happen. More of a null read IMO.
As for the first half of your quote, personally when I play I always try to point out both sides of a situation, whether I'm scum or not. If I'm scum I'd obviously try to do so in a way in which I still end up on top, but I don't see Candi as any more or less scum for doing this.
W.r.t. second half of the quote, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think your playstyle really applies to Candillan. AFAICT he doesn't even have any completed scumgames and I don't think a response like that would have occurred to him so readily as scum. Perhaps I'm underestimating him, but I still think I'm right.
Homer, thanks for posting your reads. I wanted to make sure you actually had reads and weren't just blowing smoke out of your ass
RachMarie needs death badly. She's been avoiding the hell out of this thread.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
She was posting a lot elsewhere on site, but avoided this game, hence why she needs lynching.In post 376, imkingdavid wrote:I would love to see Rach follow up on:
Rach (#341) wrote:
meanwhile moving along to ISOs and giving my reads.
She did say she would post on Sunday but never did (#365).
I'm not voting Candi either.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
Gut feeling, and I don't think Candi woulda passed up on a lynch on me the way he did.In post 381, LnGrrrR wrote:Syr, why do you believe Candi is town?
Yes, very yes.In post 385, imkingdavid wrote:This lack of activity from certain players is really starting to piss me off. Several of us have posted our thoughts and carried on conversation at a reasonable pace, but a significant number of players are either AWOL or are purposely active lurking.
Neither Bane nor mkfuba have even visited the site since Friday. Rach has posted something like 35 times since her last post in this thread but has avoided this game specifically.
A choice between putting pressure on a slot that hasn't posted anywhere on site or a slot that has posted on site but not here. Hmm....In post 389, RachMarie wrote:Now both Bane and the mk dude need to be prodded... and I am feeling that probably both will end up being replaced (which makes 3 for the one slot uggh not good...) And we still have nothing of substance from that slot it is a big black hole. That bothers me because if that slot is scum, we are less likely to lynch it because two dudes in it both did nothing but lurk, if that slot is town it is extremely anti town of both players to just flake out and lurk. That was my point.
And Syr you have been playing long enough you should have recognized that and tried putting some pressure on that slot.
I'm sorry to hear thisIn post 390, RachMarie wrote:1. I am under a fair bit of stress due to a lack of a hearing aid and being 80% deaf, good newa is soon I should have some money so I can get a mold made so I can borrow an over the ear hearing aid until my insurance finally gets off the dime and replaces it.
2. My computer with all my notes and such for all my games died on me. I am sharing a computer with my fiance, which means less time and less notes for me to have. I completely lost ALL my notes I had for this game and a few others and had to start over from scratch.
Umm... Lynching the IC is an easy lynch? Instead of lynching the flake? What?In post 390, RachMarie wrote:I do find Syr to be hard for me to peg, he does a fair bit of trolly behavior in his posts (more so in non newbie games).
Yeah it took me a while to get back to this game because I knew I would have to redo all the ISOing after losing my notes
That does not necessarily make me scum however, and I am wondering if you are going after an easy lynch. I would say I am an easier lynch than shaboo/mk dude since it is clear that slot is about as non existent as can be, while I have posted some just not as much as I should be.
First two points are null, awkwardness isn't a scumtellIn post 404, LnGrrrR wrote:- His awkward multiple "I'm town" jokes
- His awkward "I don't have a meta" argument
- His null means scum or town comment, which makes no sense. Null does mean they could be either, but he tries to play it off like moving someone to null from scum makes no difference. Remember, he made a comment that he though Grim and I might be a scum team after he listed his reads, and now Grim is upgraded to town with no posted reason.
Can you point out where he said the third part?
I really wish I was that good as scumIn post 405, Grimgroove wrote:I understand why you don't want to let the Syryana-thing go. I must shamefully admit he played on my emotions perfectly (maybe without the intention, we'll know later) and I can't help but believe him for now. I do wish he'd get more involved in the game again.
I'm happy with my vote where it is
Someone mentioned they wanted more activity from me, talk to me yoIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
I just did a side-by-side of LnGrrR's ISO in this game and the last one. The difference in tone is amazing. Look at the old game and you can feel the mood in L's posting: emotes, punctuation, word choice. In this one, he uses none of that and feels like this:In post 416, Grimgroove wrote:I'd say LnGrrrR seems to me more calculated and dispassionate, which in my eyes seems less townie as Can's behaviour
Spoiler: It's LnGrrR
Like the difference is astonishing.
Grim, before you leave, talk to me. Who do you wanna lynch today? I'm thinking Rach/LnGrrR scumteam, personally.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
You have a point. LnGrrR's interactions are a lot more varied and intricate than Rach's.In post 419, Grimgroove wrote:I have a preference for lynching LnGrrrR today, he's got more postings we can work with after he flips. I don't feel we got enough from RachMarie already in this regard, I don't think her lynch would teach us as much as LnGrrrR's would.
VOTE: LnGrrR
L-2In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
NowIn post 425, LnGrrrR wrote:Grim, claims usually occur at l-2, because if you wait until l-1,then the scum can just self-hammer to deny information to the town.that'sa scumslip.In the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."-
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Syryana He/HimAlways AndyHe/Him
- Always Andy
- Always Andy
- Posts: 3345
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/Him
It's not really. I'm just reaction testing you. I think you meant to sayquickhammer, notselfhammer.
Also I giggled when you rolled your eyes <3
VOTE: RachMarieIn the timeless words of a great and revered man: "Blow it out your ass."
A hydra of Rift Adrift, Oil Tycoons and Trust Fund. "In the Oil Rift we Trust."