Blitz 3: Dead of Winter Mafia - Game Over

[A Royal Saint]

Ninja'd apparently.

Be back after work

RVS vote VOTE: Scorpious

[A Royal Saint]

My vote for Scorpious is now a non RVS vote here is why:

He OMGUS's me for RVSing them trying to raise some emotion.
Says he can't vote for Pisskop because puppies ? I do not understand that at all.
Then he pokes Bard saying they were antagonistic. This reads as if it is from a scum chat and I suspect Scorpious and Bard are aligned.
I do not know of a situation where a townie would use the words Scorpius did.
Because of this Expedience gets a town read in that he is trying to continue discussion.

Also note how Scorpious is posting a lot but there is no content in them.

@KlingonCelt -- vote me for yes and then unvote and just unvote for no. Are you trolling or is this serious?

[A Royal Saint]

Trolling is yes and serious is no. Should have clarified sorry.

[A Royal Saint]

@KlingonCelt -- Who do you think is scum and why?

Vote that person as many times as the post in the ISO you think explains it. If you disagree with the idea just Unvote.

Feel free to Unvote afterward if wanted/needed.

If more than one post Unvote between the groups please.

[A Royal Saint]

For example I would do VOTE: Scorpious
VOTE: Scorpious
VOTE: Scorpious

Because his third post is fishy

And then UNVOTE: to say I am done and if you want to really emphasize it you could Unvote twice

UNVOTE:

[A Royal Saint]

be back in an hour ish. Gotta drive home.
Can someone look up who hasn't posted yet while I drive please?

[A Royal Saint]

Okay I think KlingonCelt is town but that is infuriating. Voting just out of not liking the post restriction. VOTE: KlingonCelt
UNVOTE:
Oh and fixing my vote to be for ScorpiousVOTE: Scorpious

Not real sure why just posting that they will read it is scummy and what looks to be coaching from Scorpious is not being examined. Can someone explain that to me?

[A Royal Saint]

@KlingonCelt -- You get your own question since apparently all you can do is talk in votes.
Who do you think is town (besides yourself) and why? Same criteria then please put your vote back on whoever you think is scummiest.

[A Royal Saint]

Sure. The way I read is that it sounds like he is chastising Bard for being antagonistic.

Yes on the part about scum chat and the other reasons posted above. I am town reading you because of how Scorpious quoted your post and responded. Furthermore Scorpious did not vote for Bard but agrees it was antagonistic. Why?

He voted me for being a Saints fan. Surely an actual reason coming along should have made him do something or question or poke or attempt to solve the game.

Does this help to clarify?

[A Royal Saint]

VOTE: No Lynch

Now that's an interesting vote to just drop in with. Wanna talk about it?

VOTE: A Royal Saint
VOTE: Davesaz
VOTE: Davsto
VOTE: Expedience
VOTE: Gameplay506
VOTE: Hiplop
VOTE: Klingoncelt
VOTE: Makato Nayaya
VOTE: Pisskop
VOTE: Ranger
VOTE: Scorpious
VOTE: The Jester
VOTE: The Silver Bard

UNVOTE:

Can you order this post in the way you want and then UNVOTE: and revote for the scummiest?

Vote for the towniest first and the scummiest last? Will that work?

For the record...Titus is ebil obv scum mod. This is hard.

[A Royal Saint]

Since you can quote (and presumably snip? I hope so), I read a game where someone had a similar post restriction and they gave them quotes to use, here have some stuff to say:

Yes.

No.

I don't know.

I agree with this.

I disagree with this.

I believe this because:

The player I am about to vote I read as town.

The player I am about to vote I read as null-town.

The player I am about to vote I read as null.

The player I am about to vote I read as null-scum.

The player I am about to vote I read as scum.

The player I am about to vote I want to lynch today.

Awesome idea!

[A Royal Saint]

Fuck it. I am tired and going to bed. @Klingoncelt -- Do whatever you can to lynch scum please.

[A Royal Saint]

@Experience -- No. 24 is bad because of how Scorpious followed it up. It is a combination of the posts that followed. He has no desire to solve the game and the combination with Bard.

Bard then chainsaws and attempts to defend Scorpious. Why? If the argument was incorrect or flimsy then all Scorpious has to do is brush it aside or call me crazy.

Gameplay really needs to post reasons with their vote. If you think it is off, why?
Ranger -- same to you. Trying too hard is empty as hell. I don't change my style for anyone. Assuming KlingonCelt's restriction is true everyone deserves a chance to play the game. If it makes it look "tries too hard" I am a okay with that because I will try to my last breath.

Bard -- The fact you aren't voting anyone you are pushing furthermore makes me convinced you and Scorpious are it together. I just think based on posts Scorpious is probably the more experienced one so I want them lynched first. Or at least poked and prodded.

Gotta go to work I will be on later.

[A Royal Saint]

@Experience -- No. 24 is bad because of how Scorpious followed it up. It is a combination of the posts that followed. He has no desire to solve the game and the combination with Bard.

Bard then chainsaws and attempts to defend Scorpious. Why? If the argument was incorrect or flimsy then all Scorpious has to do is brush it aside or call me crazy.

Gameplay really needs to post reasons with their vote. If you think it is off, why?
Ranger -- same to you. Trying too hard is empty as hell. I don't change my style for anyone. Assuming KlingonCelt's restriction is true everyone deserves a chance to play the game. If it makes it look "tries too hard" I am a okay with that because I will try to my last breath.

Bard -- The fact you aren't voting anyone you are pushing furthermore makes me convinced you and Scorpious are it together. I just think based on posts Scorpious is probably the more experienced one so I want them lynched first. Or at least poked and prodded.

Gotta go to work I will be on later.

You say I chainsaw when what I did was question you for putting me as scum with Scorpius. Chainsawing would be me attacking you for going after Scorpius. But fine, I will defend Scorpius as well here (and now you can claim I am chainsawing).

Your vote on Scorpius is very poorly reasoned in my opinion. Here is why you think he is scum:

My vote for Scorpious is now a non RVS vote here is why:

He OMGUS's me for RVSing them trying to raise some emotion. (1)
Says he can't vote for Pisskop because puppies ? I do not understand that at all. (2)
Then he pokes Bard saying they were antagonistic. This reads as if it is from a scum chat and I suspect Scorpious and Bard are aligned. (3)
I do not know of a situation where a townie would use the words Scorpius did. (4)
Because of this Expedience gets a town read in that he is trying to continue discussion.

Also note how Scorpious is posting a lot but there is no content in them. (5)

@KlingonCelt -- vote me for yes and then unvote and just unvote for no. Are you trolling or is this serious?

(1) It is a random vote and a poke at you at the same time. Why is this scummy? It is a random vote, nothing scummy here, imo.
(2) Him joking around, a fluff post. If he posts alot of fluff, yes it might be considered scummy. But one fluff post. Not scummy.
(3) All he does in his post 31 is tell Expedience that he/she is as antagonistic as I am. Then you say this is scummy because you believe Scorpious and I are scummates together and have discussed this in out scumchat. To me this is you pushing your agenda and making up stuff to make it fit.
(4) You say you don't know any situation where a townie would play like Scorpious is doing. Really? How many games have you played? Townies do this all the time, there is nothing antitown about Scorpious pointing out that Expedience is just as antagonistic as I am. So either you are lieing to push your own agenda or you haven't played a whole lot of mafiagames.
(5) This is the only point where he is acting somewhat scummy. If he keeps posting one liners that is something and fluff that is something to put on the scumside of reading him. But there are a bunch of other players who have posted with as littler (or less) content than Scorpious have posted.


After this you continue to justify your vote on Scorpious by me chainsawing (which you really can't accuse me for until now). You answer Expedience post 70 I guess. The post where you claim I chainsaw is post 95. So you answer why you think Scorpious is scum in your post 58 with a claim that I am chainsawing in post 95. This is you again pushing your agenda. It looks like you have made up your mind that Scorpious is scum with me and are just adjusting your reasoning.

In the end your final justification for putting Scorpious and me together as a scumteam is that I haven't voted. And this is why you now are conviced that we are scum together. How you can tie me together with Scorpious for not voting is ludicrous. Yes, you can perhaps find it somewhat scummy when someone haven't voted, but how you link me together with Scorpious because of it I don't get. Again you are just pushing your agenda, and are making up arguements that fits your painting of Scorpious and myself as scum.

FYI: I haven't pushed anyone yet, and haven't had a reason to vote anyone. Now I do though, I think you are scum.

VOTE: A Royal Saint

Again you ignore the why in combination and try to break things out in a way I am not intending.

1) At first it was just RVS. In isolation it is just that. It is in combination with the other posts I cited. At that point he had suspicions and was stating who they wouldn't vote for. But yet they kept their RVS vote and I pointed this out and the coaching of you.

It has been told to me that word walls are generally not read but look at post 24. Fucking read it. Scorpious chastises you for being antagonistic. I do not see any reason a townie would ever use that logic towards someone like that unless they are blatantly coaching them.

Imagine if another player said to me right now "Well you kind of are being a dick ARS." That would be seen as coaching. That is what Scorpious did and it was about you. The post isn't inherently anti town. It is about how scums interact. I hunt by trying to find who could be aligned and find a pair. And in the rare off case I am wrong then both you and Scorpious are probably town and it would be game and someone else but I highly doubt that.

It is also a common strategy for scum d1 to actively lurk. It means post a ton of useless bullshit. Happens more so in marathonesque games. Both scum just cannot lurk in a speed game else mods will call the game and while the setup is infuriating I doubt Titus would let both scum lurk or avoid post reqs.


And yes I focus on word choice and am strange. Normally if I am "sane" then worry about me being scum. I have a town role that requires me to be in the spotlight and the instant I use it will be confirmed town and then shot the next night. No doubt about it. So I am trying to get my opinions up now for that inevitability. Scum cannot leave me alive. I am claiming one of those bajillion roles. It is town only.

http://deusexmafia.wikia.com/wiki/Town_Roles

I have to grab lunch and get back to work now. Please tell me the thread will wake up.

[A Royal Saint]

That being said,
VOTE: A Royal Saint.
While my scumread's weaker, this wagon's larger.

....We have more than a day. Not time to consolidate yet. Find scum. Hunt. Think. Thou has an ability to post questions. Thou shall post questions. Thou shall find answers and be like a ranger and snipe the scum. But first it must stealthily investigate.

[A Royal Saint]

Honestly I think the scum having day talk has no bearing on whether it is incorrect. Point was no townie would say it. And that it was meant for the day chat thread and posted in the wrong spot.

However out of the interest of town cohesion and not beating a dead horse I will move on. So I will move onto my third scumspect.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: gameplay506

[A Royal Saint]

I would say that this is a reminder to you that I am trying to use this alt for improvement so not to bring up that it is an apt.

Since you did however I would say I am trying to use it to improve my play. Therefore it will have some similarities but hopefully will have some differences. When I find something that sticks and works at finding scum I will generally stick with it. E.g. Hunting for pairs.

[A Royal Saint]

Real tempted to PL Klingy. Because I think PLs are great and Im a great person.

I would say no to a policy lynch of KlingonCelt because it is more than likely a post restriction. To policy lynch there must be a well policy why.

However policy lynching someone who isn't playing like game would probably be better

[A Royal Saint]

Trying something.

KlingonCelt vote for yourself.

[A Royal Saint]

Yep. Klingon smile because you are awesome. Vote for who you think is the scummiest.

@Scorpious ...Really??!?!?! If you are right that only helps scum to point that out in thread if they didn't know :/ I really can't believe we have to consolidate off of you :/

Ebwop falling asleep will read the rest of the thread tomorrow at some point.

[A Royal Saint]

Also the gameplay506 vote is like a total copout.

Yes, there is a chance gameplay is scum who made up his post restriction. But to just stop pushing your main scumreads and push someone who cannot talk back as soon as you get attention is WEAK.

1) My main scum reads are unable to be lynched today because people are not listening. No amount of screaming or repeating the same points will change that. Regardless of my wagon state, spamming the thread is anti town. Therefore I must move on.

2) The game art indicates that there are two scum and 11 town. By moving to my third suspect that means in terms of my scum wall both of the zombie slots are taken. Therefore the proper play is to push a lurker and see what comes out of it. If they refuse to play the game then they are of no help or benefit and make it harder to lynch scum because we have to account for their deadweight.

3) Where is the posting they promised us? And why does Ranger immediately say this is a bad lynch when the overwhelming evidence is that *duh* I am town and there is no pressure at all and Bard is just clogging the thread. I want to see people play the game and I don't like it when anyone tries to shut down investigative pressure.

If you have less than 10 posts in 3 days of play please either pick up activity or replace out.

That is a summary response because phone posting and I have to go to work.

I will be back on later tonight but Saturday mornings are rough for me so hopefully we have enough people actually voting :/

3) I do not understand Ranger's comment at

[A Royal Saint]

Let's not discuss which role please. There are some roles that have a post restriction inherent or KlingonCelt could be attempting her win con and it is poorly designed there are a lot of possibilities. Instead of setup spec we should be either lynching or asking for a mod replace of game's slot because this is bullshit.

[A Royal Saint]

I think this discussion of KlingonCelt is dumb for a few reasons:

1) It pretty much says to mods to never put in a post restriction because that person will be policy lynched. This game is meant for fun. If the restriction is true then you are judging Klingon Celt not for play but for a post restriction.

2) if Klingon Celt is faking and being scum then that would pretty much ruin me playing with them because I value letting people have fun over winning. Since in the games I have played with Klingon Celt they have common respect for the game I doubt this is it. Call it gut if you want but I doubt they are faking.

3) Setup spec which is what is going on stops scum hunting. For the love of God hunt scum. We have less than 24 hours and this is filler bullshit.

So therefore out of respect of letting a player play the fucking game I will not join on this.

[A Royal Saint]

Lurking is both antitown and antiscum. Just saying.
Also believe me lynching me today will be simply a waste of time.

Not lynching you is also a waste of time if you don't fucking play because then it is a vacant slot.

[A Royal Saint]

Got to page 5.
Expe is town. Bard and royal are too dumb (sorry its true) for me to read them.
Something about Davesaz makes me think scum.
Haven't seen much of Kling so far but the thing I don't like is that she isn't even remotely trying to overcome it on way or another. I am ok with this.
Anyway
VOTE: Davesaz
Still havent read all but I am thinking about going to bed and I would like to place a vote before then. Also I've always been good with reads but not with arguments. Just some info.

This. This is bad. ...Hell gameplay could have RVS'd a name....all they said is something. This isn't information it is just stalling. Put something down. Look I may be called an idiot but I know if I die I went down swinging.

[A Royal Saint]

@whoever else is online give a list of people
Towniest on top
Scummiest on bottom

That should at least get some discussion going

[A Royal Saint]

VOTE: Gameplay506
VOTE: Hiplop
VOTE: Expedience

Which of Expedience's posts do you find the most scummy if that was an answer to me.

If it was not an answer to me quote the scummiest post.

@pisskop -- So who do you think is scum and why?

[A Royal Saint]

@Experience -- Top scumspect and why go..

@pisskop -- Why do you flip flop on hip lop?

@Scorpious -- Top scumspect and why go..

[A Royal Saint]

@Pisskop there isn't "datum" until end of day. There are reads and reasons why for a belief. There is a reason why your gut thinks these things.

Day one is about gut reads and sharing thoughts so that way later on we have enough thread to read to piece it together.
Yes we don't have the solution yet. But we need to spitball and think. It isn't about being right so much as listening and understanding and getting a lay of the land. By posting one's thoughts the map builds.

I know I am a horrible day one player but this is the idea.

@Expedience -- Thabk you. I have only been in one game with davesaz as an SK and that was a long time ago. Can you provide a sample? If you already did this sorry just not that much time in blitz to research.

It is hard for me to get a read on the other Dave and just meh isn't really enough to switch focus off someone not playing. We need to have thoughts aloud to reach consensus.

[A Royal Saint]

Since Scorpious is/was actually online and trying I am going to operate as if they are town for now same with Bard and I was an idiot.

Mainly I want to poke the crap out of Game, pisskop for IIOA they should know better having played enough, and davesaz because you may have a point there.

[A Royal Saint]

Good point Klingon.

Expedience please explain why in the lower 205 it is not a policy lynch and in 225 it is a polcy lynch for the same reasons?

Help me understand why you did that?

[A Royal Saint]

Be back in a few hours I need a nap.

[A Royal Saint]

Hester Dave vote. The wagons are exp Dave or me. Me is stupid because I am trying to help get a lynch.

We have less than 7 hours.

[A Royal Saint]

Sorry forgot gameplay am tired. Also valid option.

[A Royal Saint]

Cmon yall six hours left....

[A Royal Saint]

5 hours...

[A Royal Saint]

4 hours left yall...we can do this. And the fact we have to work so hard to lynch a non player slot gives me a good feeling it is a scum slot.

[A Royal Saint]

I am a double voter.

VOTE: gameplay506

That should be hammer. And this is why scum will have to kill me. And yes I didn't wait for a claim but he wasn't playing and too close to day end.

[A Royal Saint]

And in case mods want different format:

Second vote of Awesome:

Gameplay506

There now it is obvious my intent

[A Royal Saint]

So first things first, gameplay is probably town. If I had to guess, the scum are trying to force us into a second D1 with that No kill.

Please explain. Gameplay is probably scum. 11 players and 2 zombies would require some kind of balance for scum. One day lynch proof would make a great balancing factor. It is much more probable to me that scum tried to eat me and failed because I am a double voter and we barely got a lynch yesterday.

He also refused to post anything useful all day. Not really seeing where you get town from that.

FoS on you.

[A Royal Saint]

Back in a few hours approximately grocery shopping.

[A Royal Saint]

VOTE: Gameplay506

Sorry post got cut off phone posting

[A Royal Saint]

So first things first, gameplay is probably town. If I had to guess, the scum are trying to force us into a second D1 with that No kill.

Please explain. Gameplay is probably scum. 11 players and 2 zombies would require some kind of balance for scum. One day lynch proof would make a great balancing factor. It is much more probable to me that scum tried to eat me and failed because I am a double voter and we barely got a lynch yesterday.

He also refused to post anything useful all day. Not really seeing where you get town from that.

FoS on you.

Wouldn't a double vote as well be a good way to balance this out?

Except for the whole fact a) I know I am town b) If I was scum I would have just no lynched instead of staying up off hours to ensure a lynch and c) double vote for scum acts like 3 scum for balancing and 11 v 3 would be op as hell but sure stay in that world.

@pisskop -- What I am doing is analyzing what is here and what we know and applying that to day one. It is what I do. I already claimed so I am assuming you don't mean me.

[A Royal Saint]

Some part yes. But regardless scum should have some powers. Even with the "win cons" some people like myself may just say fuck the selfish wincon and help town. Plus it would be incredibly disappointing I really just can't see that honestly. So scum will probably have powers. Until gameplay comes on and explains he is scum and should be lynched. If he truly is lynch proof and not one shot we have a confirmed townie, good for us. If he is not lynch proof and was one shot more than likely he is scum. Therefore win win brb again.

@Pisskop thanks for clarifying.

[A Royal Saint]

But, why are you not putting down a vote?

Because i forgot it was blitz.
VOTE: Ranger

VOTE: Makoto Nanaya

You claim not to have experience with roles. However you are experienced enough to play multiple kinds of mafia. You agree with the strategy that gameplay is probably scum but say you don't want a quick lynch. There haven't even been enough people for a quick lynch. I feel that you are trying to stall for a better option rather than hunt or ask questions. This does not compute.

Gameplay also needs to get online and explain.

[A Royal Saint]

But, why are you not putting down a vote?

Because i forgot it was blitz.
VOTE: Ranger

VOTE: Makoto Nanaya

You claim not to have experience with roles. However you are experienced enough to play multiple kinds of mafia. You agree with the strategy that gameplay is probably scum but say you don't want a quick lynch. There haven't even been enough people for a quick lynch. I feel that you are trying to stall for a better option rather than hunt or ask questions. This does not compute.

Gameplay also needs to get online and explain.

You automatically assume that because i have experence, i know every role and their uses in setup balance? The quicklynch comment was mostly preemptive. And yes gameplay stop lurking for 5 seconds.

Yes I do. When you state something that is incorrect (e.g. Gameplay likely town because blah) and it is your first post out of the gate it implies an err of confidence. If I was unsure about something I would wait.

@The_Jester -- Makoto needs pressure I agree but they could be derp!town and I am pressuring them to find out where as gameplay is almost certainly scum and therefore should be where we go today.

[A Royal Saint]

I don't have much experience with open setups so I'm waiting for more info from various perspectives to properly judge the situation.
Plus Makoto pinged me before gameplay's failed lynch so she's holding priority.

Except it isn't open? All we know is 11 town 2 scum?

[A Royal Saint]

@The Jester -- Open means you know all the roles in the set up.
Newbie games here are all "open". Open generally means open role list to all players.

Semi open is up for some debate but is usually when you know some pieces of the set up but not everything. I believe this is semi open because we know how many scum and how many town but not the roles within it. However some people may consider this closed.

The third is closed which means you don't know how many scum or how many town or anything at all.

[A Royal Saint]

*crickets* Cmon y'all this is a blitz game not go 20 in the slow lane game....

[A Royal Saint]

Yeah...Sunday = Fun day = more activity usually. At least that has been what I have seen. This little activity is weird. :/ I have seen more in non blitz games. I am extremely concerned when people have very few posts it will make investigation and analysis difficult.

[A Royal Saint]

Agreed. And secondly if nothing has changed for you then you should be able to explain why nothing has changed.

Furthermore it has been established in thread that gameplay is very likely scum. Then why is he not on your list of scum reads.

It is almost like you are stuck on something. Some times even people who have wrong reads (like on me) find something worth noting so please explain why you are thinking the way you do and why these lurkers and not others met your eye.

Makoto is l-3 at my last count but would like a VC to verify.

[A Royal Saint]

Okay...Explain how you haven't had a problem with game play's posts. Since 90% of them are "reading the thread". Simply calling him town when the greater likelihood based on information we already know (he survived the first lynch) combined with prods for inactivity and antitown behavior which can happen with newer scum. I just can't see how there isn't a problem and I want you to expand on that.

...Expedience is showing very much town thoughts and they are a top town read. I do not understand what else you could want from them :/

I am not sure how you are getting these reads you are just stating things that do not make sense to me logically.

And I agree on the value part. FoS Ranger.

[A Royal Saint]

Got to page 5.
Expe is town. Bard and royal are too dumb (sorry its true) for me to read them.
Something about Davesaz makes me think scum.
Haven't seen much of Kling so far but the thing I don't like is that she isn't even remotely trying to overcome it on way or another. I am ok with this.
Anyway
VOTE: Davesaz
Still havent read all but I am thinking about going to bed and I would like to place a vote before then. Also I've always been good with reads but not with arguments. Just some info.

This and the other post where they say lynching them is a waste of time are the only posts with attempts at content. They did do what accounts to a random vote on me because I was and am attempting to move discussion forward.

Please by all means explain how you have no problem with this little activity or contribution. I would love to hear that.

In fact anyone who thinks Gameplay is town should explain that.

[A Royal Saint]

@Titus - Is there a wiki link for this game?

I just finished a game on Ika's site. Big mistake, they have a huge variety of crazy roles over there. Now I have a bunch of crazy possibilities dancing through my head: Judas, Saulus, unlynchable (but still Night-killable!,) saved by a judge, revived, ...



Oh, the post restriction was quite real. Sucked completely.

Now that you can speak what are your thoughts about the game and its players? Could you do a readwall of sorts?

[A Royal Saint]

B) No. With no one playing scum no lynch would make it seem like no one could be lynched with demoralizes town and gives nothing. As scum I would prefer a no lynch just never advocate it.

In fact the more no lunches that occur usually the safer scum is. I am always considered "crazy" and am an easy mislynch target so when I am scum I have a harder time faking that crazy so I took some time off from mafia to study and learn and analyze. Scum never have to go for the best. They go for what they can get.

C) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=62206 Sample game. Yes 10v3 but town no powers and scum no powers (except masons). Given this is a Titus set up almost everyone has a power and there must be balancing. So either the wincons are insane and never doable and/or scum would have some kind of help. Since this is a Titus game I am assuming the win cons are doable, so scum have to have help. Some kind of uber power. Lynch proof just makes sense.

Notice how the conversation moved away from gameplay and now we are diversifying. Lo and behold if this continues I bet dimes to donuts that we will end up like d1 which would suck. Gameplay506 really needs to get on and explain.

[A Royal Saint]

@Daveaz -- I agree with the idea diversification is good. Even great. What I am concerned with is having people not vote before deadline for gameplay (or if someone scum claims them). Last time we were scrambling. I want to prevent that by getting people to explicitly promise they will be voting for gameplay.

@Ranger -- 1) That seems completely fake. 2) why are you so concerned about your own survival? If people lynch me they are being stupid as clearly I was the high value target last night and probably got protected. Honestly I am amazed to be here. 3) Why the hell is gameplay towb? I have asked several times and yet you dodge the answer. Other people are asking but yet I am scummy without reason? Bullshit.

A read wall without reasons is just words on paper.

[A Royal Saint]

@Titus -- Gameplay hasn't posted yet today how does he have a vote?

Missed that in the automated VCs. It should be fixed now.

[A Royal Saint]

And Titus has joined team Z a bit too early it seems *just teasing*

[A Royal Saint]

@Makoto who do you think scum are and why?

@Davsto -- I agree that their target was probably protected by something. I just doubt it is gameplay.
Let's assume we are in crazy world and gameplay is town which for the record I am playing devil's advocate:
I believe gameplay is scum but ...

1) assume scum believes him 1 shot. That makes him like a vanilla townie. Why kill a vanilla townie when scum balance dictates that he is almost certainly scum? Then they'd almost certainly get a mislynch today.

2) assume that scum believes him lynch proof . Then a second day is without lynch and gameplay would pretty much be townfirm at that point and that puts the doc in a dilemma:

Do they protect the double voter who is obv town or the confirmed but powerless townie?

The only likely shot target was me and I was probably protected.

[A Royal Saint]

I am going to bed early day at work tomorrow. Sweet dreams everyone!

[A Royal Saint]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hiplop

Fake restriction policy lynch, my ass.

*pokes*

Readwall please.

[A Royal Saint]

I'm a little surprised to see so many people making assumptions about who the missing NK target was. That kind of talk has potential to help scum by giving them insight on which players might get protection.

In reply to the question I was asked, I see both ARS and gameplay as weak scum reads, but the chance of them being scum together is very remote.

So far I have been the only one to propose that I was the NK target. That gives scum 0 insight as I outed myself d1 to get a lynch.

Then if we are light who are strong scum reads? And if you think we are not scum together who do you think could be our partner? Granted me as scum is already wrong but asking for the sake of discussion.

Also I am willing to bet scum are reading me as scum without reason. For all the people "suspecting" me not one is stating a reason with any depth. I shit you not the most detailed reason is "I don't like their posts". ...Scum don't like my posts. And if something saved me last night then they'd try to push me as a candidate but I am so townie the tattoo artist can't find a place to give me a townie stamp because I am already covered.

[A Royal Saint]

@ All people prodded: Thoughts on current events?

[A Royal Saint]

I disagree Silver Bard. The proper play with double voter or lynch proof is to be reckless as hell.

Him lurking is probably more to disappointment over scum or trying to blend in with the others or not being used to a blitz game than being town. Him just saying it is a waste of time and not clarifying today is more indication that he is probably scum.

[A Royal Saint]

We arent doing this. Fire, claim and/or die.

He said in code that he is unlynchable, but that his role PM doesn't necessarily say if the unlynchableness is one-shot or not.

He said that he tracked Klingoncelt last night but she went nowhere.

Do you believe his claim?

Please post the exact translations if you can. I am phone posting so it is hard to see. Based on what they are saying I do not believe him.

1) A one shot unlynchavle tracker is OP as hell.
2) a unlynchable tracker would certainly be OP as hell's hell.

Please post the exact words though because sometimes words make all the difference.

[A Royal Saint]

I do not buy that Gameplay is town. In the lore it specifically states that you have to spend a die of a certain value to kill a zombie. It makes a lot of sense for the zombies to have one time lynch proof or rng lynch proof to simulate this. Look at the dead of winter rules. I have to go home but nothing has changed. They are not helping out are not giving opinions and are only concerned with saving their own skin.

Note Ranger I see your post and I am phone posting about to drive home. Saying something is the opposite doesn't make it true. Will respond more when safely home.

[A Royal Saint]

Link to a game where post restrictions were faked.

20-8-9-19

So far only you and Klingon seem to have post restrictions. Are you saying she was faking?

Haven't translated your biggest post yet working on it . Major PC issues so doing it by hand.

[A Royal Saint]

I do not buy that Gameplay is town. In the lore it specifically states that you have to spend a die of a certain value to kill a zombie. It makes a lot of sense for the zombies to have one time lynch proof or rng lynch proof to simulate this. Look at the dead of winter rules. I have to go home but nothing has changed. They are not helping out are not giving opinions and are only concerned with saving their own skin.

Note Ranger I see your post and I am phone posting about to drive home. Saying something is the opposite doesn't make it true. Will respond more when safely home.

9 1-13 20-15-23-14
4-15 25-15-21 23-1-14-20 13-5 20-15 6-12-15-15-4 20-8-9-19 20-8-18-5-1-4 23-9-20-8 1 2-21-14-3-8 15-6 14-21-13-2-5-18-19 20-15 7-9-22-5 25-15-21 13-25 15-16-9-14-9-15-14 15-14 5-22-5-18-25-20-8-9-14-7

That does seem like townie frustration. Normally I would say yes but then I would spend all the time left to vote translating it.

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:

I am not convinced you are town but my main reason is that the slot wasn't playing and you are so I need to reassess.

Can you take everyone from the player list and arrange them in order.
Towniest >>> Scummiest

@KlingonCelt -- Reexamining Pisskop's ISO.

[A Royal Saint]

@KlingonCelt -- The first few remind me of Titus a bit. Am I supposed to get that feeling? Not really seeing a post restriction just looks more like a comedic impression of Titus.

[A Royal Saint]

Oops, I forgot you were Double Voter. I really need to pay more attention before coming out with logic like that.

@Experience -- This here makes me begin to suspect davsto a bit. That and mainly staying away from the gameplay discussion is very suspicious even after I asked opinions. Instead they came out with what is very likely improper theory. But again I wonder what benefit would scum have to post that? And why would a scum buddy allow that? It was ridiculous. Mainly want to see Davsto react to your wall and my thoughts as well.

VOTE: Davsto

[A Royal Saint]

Going to sleep now. Good night all. Tomorrow may be a bit dicey for posts but will do my best.

[A Royal Saint]

I can try to sort them in order if you want but it won't be that informative.

Town

Expedience
The Silver Bard
A Royal Saint
pisskop
Firebringer (replaces gameplay506)
Klingoncelt
Ranger
The_Jester
Makoto Nanaya
Scorpious
hiplop
davesaz
Davsto

Scum

Makoto / Scorpious would be a nullish kind of area below which slight townreads become slight scumreads.

I actually have a lot of townreads, but I think that's good because there are only 2 scum in this setup.

That was @Firebringer --sorry I wasn't clear. I was trying to find a way to communicate with Firebringer and get a read on them through it. Nice to know where you stand though.

Going to try to sleep again.

[A Royal Saint]

@All who think Expedience is scum -- Please provide a case more than "contrived" or "fake" or OMGUS.
Not really seeing how one of the most active players is scum.

I also find it interesting that a lot of people are pushing Expedience after they suggest Davsto is scum. Probably one or the other is scum.

@Davsto -- Please respond to my prior post.

@Firebringer -- Thanks! I will translate when I get to the office.

[A Royal Saint]

Oops, I forgot you were Double Voter. I really need to pay more attention before coming out with logic like that.

@Experience -- This here makes me begin to suspect davsto a bit. That and mainly staying away from the gameplay discussion is very suspicious even after I asked opinions. Instead they came out with what is very likely improper theory. But again I wonder what benefit would scum have to post that? And why would a scum buddy allow that? It was ridiculous. Mainly want to see Davsto react to your wall and my thoughts as well.

VOTE: Davsto

Sorry forgot I had a post between them. Should have said my prior post regarding you.

[A Royal Saint]

@All who think Expedience is scum -- Please provide a case more than "contrived" or "fake" or OMGUS.
Not really seeing how one of the most active players is scum.

I also find it interesting that a lot of people are pushing Expedience after they suggest Davsto is scum. Probably one or the other is scum.

@Davsto -- Please respond to my prior post.

@Firebringer -- Thanks! I will translate when I get to the office.

Then Davsto top paragraph why the suspicion of Expedience.

[A Royal Saint]

Again that is not a case. That is just OMGUS and disagreeing with a meta read. I want a case from someone.

[A Royal Saint]

20-15-23-14
1-18-19
11-12-9-14-7
20-19-2
19-3-15-18-16
18-1-14-7-5-18
4-1-22-19-20-15
16-9-19-19-11-15-16
20-8-5 10-5-19-20-5-18
8-9-16-12-15-16
4-1-22-5-19-1-26
13-1-11-1-20-15 14-1-25-1-25-1
5-24-16-5-4-9-5-14-3-5

Translation of Firebringer's post:
TOWN
ARS
KLING
TSB
SCORP
RANGER
DAVSTO
PISSKOP
THE JESTER
HIPLOP
DAVESAZ
MAKATO NAYAYA
EXPEDIENCE

@Firebringer -- Explain your Expedience and Makoto reads please.

@Davsto -- Again...You just said your case is to disagree with this meta read. You could find which posts were inaccurate or find a statement that is false. I do not see what you are seeing so it looks like OMGUS to me so I want an explanation. The way this many people are hopping on Expedience this fast makes me think someone on it is scum. So I expect people to provide cases.

I have a meeting late tonight so I won't be on for much of the day I have to work. Will do my best.

[A Royal Saint]

@Davsto -- In fact I figure someone who genuinely believes their case would love the opportunity to "soap box" it out. I'm surprised you take rational skepticism and asking for your opinion in such a weird way.

[A Royal Saint]

Exactly, it's easier to focus on one, so I don't end the day going "arrrrggghhh which one should I lynch".

I'm not too bothered about those who townread him since I didn't properly present the full case until just now (and Royal Saint has gone interestingly silent now that's happened). Royal Saint is making me worry but with only two scum I think they'd avoid defending each other and chainsawing like that. Probably.

It is called a job. I go silent every time I say "hey I am driving into work". That is a thing. Reading now:

[A Royal Saint]

Okay, Royal, let me lay this out for you. He's saying I'm not as "involved" as I was in the game I played with him. This game contained such things as:

Me voting the wrong person after mixing them up,
Several posts involving me neglecting the game,
Me fucking up postwalls,
A really bad hammer on Expedience himself...

The list could go on, but these are some of the things I did while in the game while Expedience was alive. He's just stating a meta of "oh he was more involved" without referencing the game in question, in the hope that people will just go along with it, whereas those things above aren't particularly involved, in my opinion.

(also, there's the fact that I currently have tonsillitis which naturally makes me play worse but it's not his fault he doesn't know)

It's not just a bad case, it's a case that is a flat out lie and Expedience should know this. That's why I'm voting Expedience.

Now, are you going to continue to accuse me of OMGUS just because I'm voting someone who just happens to be voting me, or are you going to stop tunneling and consider my case on Expedience?

Thank you for your case that I have been asking for for a fucking while.

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

Being pissed at you for calling RL scummy doesn't make your argument any more or less valid so I need to read it later but for now removing my votes while I do.

[A Royal Saint]

Question to the both of Davsto and Expedience:

1) Would you go up in a 1v1 against the other person?
2) In your world, who is the partner?

@Exedience -- Yes I thought you were town but that was earlier in the game when Gameplay/Firebringer seemed like caught scum. Now I am reassessing everything. I will state who I think is town when ready.

[A Royal Saint]

Why is hiplop not an option? They are also a top wagon?

Still reassessing and likely won't be done til late since doing the work Role PM thing

[A Royal Saint]

Why is hiplop not an option? They are also a top wagon?

I'm fine with hiplop too. But I thought this was what you meant by the 1v1 thing.

He should really just move his vote off Fire though.

I said willing. I was assessing confidence levels. But that is the general idea.

Scorpious -- Please give your thoughts on the day so far.

[A Royal Saint]

Gotta run again will read late tonight in more detail.

Scorpious -- Name something you do like.

[A Royal Saint]

my original vote on you was crap at best. I knew I was going to be away for the weekend.

Given the current options,you seem less likely to be scum,..

Pedit-@Saint, The Giants

I mean relevant to the thread Scorpious. Name one event you do like.

[A Royal Saint]

im fine with expedience wagon, actually. I've read davsto's thoughts and find myself agreeing?

Why the question mark? Either you agree or you don't. And why aren't you voting?

Will read more later tonight.

[A Royal Saint]

10 hours people. Need at least 5 on one lynch so I can hammer. Just got home from social thing. Showering and sleeping and reading in am. Sorry got home so late.

Order of preference is hiplop,Davsto,Expedience of the top lynch candidates. Yes I know no reasons but I am super sleepy.

[A Royal Saint]

im fine with expedience wagon, actually. I've read davsto's thoughts and find myself agreeing?

But you said in post 124, "Expedience is town."

do you really think i am capable of having strong, unmovable reads at post 124?

I would expect a townie response to be post blah blah blah changed my mind but instead you attack the attacker while providing very little substance.

[A Royal Saint]

That is an example why hiplop is the most likely to be scum of the three.

[A Royal Saint]

VOTE: hiplop
VOTE: hiplop

[A Royal Saint]

Sorry I was asleep before work yall. That should be hammer if I counted votes right.

[A Royal Saint]

23-5 19-5-18-9-15-21-19-12-25 8-1-22-5 5-9-7-8-20 8-15-21-18-19 23-5 13-9-7-8-20 14-15-20 7-5-20 1 12-25-14-3-8

ARS is a doublevoter and she will hopefully be here near to the deadline. So all we need is ARS and one more person.

For the record he please.

[A Royal Saint]

Go everyone! Sorry had RL after I died.

Nice game sis!

Overall great work Bard and davesaz!