TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame

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I've been in two games with Alisae.

E was town in Guns and Roses and had a very lulz shotgun read approach.
E was scum in Legends of the Hidden Speakeasy where e basically did a hard distance on eir scum buddies.

This game is like a mix in between. It might actually lean towards e's scum meta but I'm not sure after e's shotgun one liner responses. I don't know if those are AI.

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Shadoweh, why do you town read me (not sure if you still do)? Did your team help you read me? I know MariaR tends to scum reads me in general based off what I've seen in Starry Night.

[Bitmap]

E was scum in Legends of the Hidden Speakeasy where e basically did a hard distance on eir scum buddies.

that's your takeaway from that?

I was very upset after that game.

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tho there is also stellaris where it was mostly me piloting tsuchinoko
Maybe you read that game?

I may have skimmed that game for the most part.

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I'm prodding my team with a stick to give me more reads
Maria has still not read this game but might tonight (90% she sleeps through this)
I'm not asking them to read you, I don't think you're scum. That's just personal from talking to you ヾ(=ﾟ･ﾟ=)ﾉ
I think you guys change your reads astoundingly quickly and often, I don't get it tbh. I don't really change my mind until actual info enters the game.

I change my reads a lot as town. As scum they're more consistent. I see scum as the same as taking a test with the answer key next to you.

I still think you should leverage your team. Your team is pretty good and can help you a lot.

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I keep thinking how older games like Starry Night/LOTHS/Magical Girls I was pretty much scum read the whole game and pushed extremely hard but now it's this game and everyone is like "lol bitmap is scummy as fuck but town move along".

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Am I making a trend where textbook scummy is now a town read for my slot?

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You really think scum!Kerset would hard defend a scum slot and not just bus them for ez credit?

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bitmap green flip if I somehow get lynched today, means that tomorrow will be a living shit storm for mastina

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bitmap green flip if I somehow get lynched today, means that tomorrow will be a living shit storm for mastina and you

fixed

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I still think you should leverage your team. Your team is pretty good and can help you a lot.

I can't MAKE them read the game, I assure you I'm stepping on them as hard as possible

Maybe I'm too used to my teammates helping me.

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RC wanted me to leave a message for those of you asking for NSG that she's too good for y'all and that y'all suck.

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RC takes it back as long as you name your Yoshi, Cowbell.

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Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

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don't NK me im cute

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oh yeah RC wanted to add that he agrees on Alisae scumread and has agreed for a long time. He also agrees on NSG's townreads and thinks hito has hi equity as an Alisae partner.

But who cares what RC thinks. I'd rather sheep NSG.

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i trust the paragon more

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Do you really think I want to play this game right now?

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what are skitter's reads?

I could go on discord and find them, but in short skitter has been disagreeing with me a lot. Often comically timed for whenever my read on someone changed. I'd hash this out but Skitter isn't fully caught up

Eg Skitter scumreads Mastina, townreads Bitmap and Kerset, and would be voting Hito

Like why does skitter scumread mastina and townreads me and Kerset?

Also do you have any thoughts on NSG's reads? I got her to give reads based on people requesting it and it would be a slap on the face for her if people just ignored it.

[Bitmap]

Bitmap what are your reads atm?

Like my own personal reads?

[Bitmap]

Bitmap what are your reads atm?

Like my own personal reads?

Yes

[bitmap]
[Kerset, Klick, Shadoweh]
[Reundo, Jingle, ofrhz, Mena, Alisae, Chemist] <- Null
[hito, jj]
[mastina]

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RCE says bit discrediting is his scum move, FWIW.

I find it funny he says that since I've never played with him when I was scum. Actually the only game we've played together was magical girls afaik.

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RCE says bit discrediting is his scum move, FWIW.

I find it funny he says that since I've never played with him when I was scum. Actually the only game we've played together was magical girls afaik.

Well, he thinks you’re scum. And also said whoever said we needed to solve you/mastina today was probably scum but I don’t even remember that happening so... :shrug:

How can someone know my scum meta when I haven't rolled scum for so long because RNGesus cucks me every game?

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RC wanted me to post this.

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NSG wanted to know everyone's opinions on her reads.

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Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

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RC wanted to tell Jingle that calling a rc and nsg mutual townread a eh or bleh is a really stupid thing to say.

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Hey so I got a bunch of stuff from NSG. I'm going to post them in chunks.

Still not at computer but I'd like to know how NSG thinks you've been mistreated, preferably with examples

In 191, Mastina was doing that whole comparison between teams and called me the weakest link in a really inconsiderate post. Just because Jingle asked mastina who would get NK'ed doesn't mean that the post was appropriate.

In 244, Shadoweh immediately asked me on her fourth post of the game if I'm letting RC dictate my posts or if it's really me posting.

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NSG agrees with my post in 388 where she thinks people treat me as RC's puppet rather than an actual player of this game. It's not to push the agenda of persecution complex but rather she was surprised that people were being in my face about how I was just in the shadow of my team.

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This is all in NSG paraphrased speak btw:

@Jingle:

In response to post 1520, I only lightly town read you and it's more relative than absolute. It's because of your position rather than how you are playing the game. In regards for me being able to read you, I don't know how many games we've played but it's probably somewhere in the single digits and less. I don't think I hold anything special in regards to being able to read you but it's more general than anything from reading this thread so I think you're more likely town as of now.

I believe you have the wrong idea in regards to my scum pool being a group of players that I'm scum reading rather than a group that contains all the scum. Hope that makes sense. The caveat is that I don't think it has all of the scum and it can hold off for now. I think you have a misunderstanding of how I read Renundo. I think he's low hanging fruit and do not think that he's positively scum. When Gamma was here, I pinged him as scum due to gut and Reundo hasn't done much to change that meaning Reundo would still be in my scum pool.

I don't have any fear from Menalque after the C9++ game and would even go on about to say that his scum game is mild or at the very minimum influenced due to how other people are talking about him through scummies judging, and the most recently completed game, Guns and Roses III. Actually, I early scum lean him but during the middle of the game I thought and had a town read on him before he went and fell down in my alignment read.

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I believe sheeping the agreed thought on Chemist is not the best of ideas, and the theory behind it being town driven from at least someone is most likely fictitious. In my thoughts, I see a row of students taking a test but each of them are copying a student from the left. If someone in the first row or first student got it incorrect, just cause every other student has copied it doesn't mean that it is in fact truthful. (This is a simplified version to how people are reading him. However, it felt like a painful analogy, which I enjoy creating.)

I don't understand how you're saying that Alisae is a "boring slot to have some read on.

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Oh yeah, another thing. I don't get how Alisae's read went from town and immediately flipped to scum for bitmap after I said that I scum read e.

The reasoning I think in 1433 to be like "nsg should read me correctly, but she's calling me scummy and thus has to be lying and thus is scum", but I don't think that tracks exactly. First off, I don't know where there's evidence that Alisae thinks I can read e. Second off, I believe it's kind of odd that e would suddenly have this reaction after I stated my reads but not when RC said it. Why do you think RC giving reads is not threatening or nothing to worry for but when I scum read you then suddenly it is an evidence of a scum plot? I think whatever scum plan that this could remotely be attached to is really far off and far fetched. Especially considering that, if my memory is correct, Alisae was one of the few people defending bitmap.

Fixed below since I got it a bit wrong:

I don't have any fear from Menalque after the C9++ game and would even go on about to say that his scum game is

mild

neutral or at the very minimum influenced due to how other people are talking about him through scummies judging, and the most recently completed game, Guns and Roses III. Actually, I early scum lean him but during the middle of the game I thought and had a town read on him before he went and fell down in my alignment read.

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RC wants to add something.

He said that him and NSG are here just to lynch scum and not have dank/spicy reads. If you think the read we posted is correct, vote with us.

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so NSG's read on me is based on content after she outed the read and not before?

NSG's reply:
That isn't even the

original

reason I scumread you, but I think it's

a

reason to read you as scum.

[Bitmap]

but if we want to talk about the actual problem with that is that its a very easy thing to push.

NSG: I scumread this person!
person in question: WHAT NSG SCUMREADS ME SHE'S SCUM
NSG: HAH, FOOL, I'LL USE YOUR READ AGAINST YOU!

its so ez and low effort and so devoid of actual critical thinking

NSG said whatever you think my plan is has to rely on requiring that I would know that down the road you would OMGUS bitty's slot. How do you think I would know that?

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@Ali: nsg said that e is cornered

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This is still from NSG.
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@JJH

I wanted to let you know that I've thought long and hard about your slot and they might all seem contradictory, but bear with me.

I want to start at the very end at my conclusion and work backwards, since that direction will set a more precise image of what I'm actually thinking than the reverse. I just want to make it apparent that I think you're likely to be town. Now that we got that out of the way, lets start from the top going through and reading the game. I had your slot as null for the longest time now through the entire way through. I started commentating to RC that I'd have your slot as town due to what I've been hearing about your scum game improving, and your own remarks about how you can hyper post and copy your town meta for the first day. This is on an analytical level. On a purely gut level, I believe you're town. I do not believe that your position in this game is from a scum one, and I don't know how much I can really elaborate or justify. (However, I indeed think that Alisae's stream of posts in regards to GreyICE and the posts he made about your meta shows that you're more likely to be town, so that's a piece of evidence there. Just like I said, this is somewhat contradictory.)

This has put me in an unfortunate position where I think you're town, however you're not in a really good position to work with our team. I also believe that scum are taking advantage of you (this is a more recent development but I don't plan to go in depth now but possibly later).

------------------
This is the first half, going to continue paraphrasing.

@hito: I'll try to get to it but more focused on finishing the paraphrasing tonight.

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I started commentating to RC that I'd have your slot as town except what I've been hearing about your scum game improving

Fixed.

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More from NSG
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@jjh:

I really hope and would be appreciative if you'd consider working with your teammates more or even at the very least providing more opportunities for skitter and the rest of your team mafia team to talk with my team. I know this request is seemingly self-serving, however last team mafia I was in a situation just like bitmap is in now. Ranmaru made things really hard and nearly impossible for us to lynch scum the day we managed to lynch scum, even though despite the fact that Almost50 and his team mafia team was suggesting to him that I was town. At that time, I was asking him the same thing I'm asking you right now. For clarity sake, I'm absolutely not asking you to just abandon your reads or sheep skitter. I hope and wish that you townread bitmap, yes, however more than anything I want to lynch scum today, and this would be a lot easier I think if our team mafia teams can work together.

Just like I've said before, I think that your thought process in 1584 is fairly dangeroud but I plan to go more into this later. In my opinion, it's a bad idea to townblock people just on the basis that they agree with you and think that Alisae is scum who is taking advantage of that (I will go into a bit of theory on scum Alisae, but my main notion is that it doesn't depend on you agreeing with me - in my opinion it's still not a good idea to townread people just on the notion that they agree with you). In my personal opinion the timing of how Alisae reads switch for both you and Bitmap fits into the scum agenda of aligning with / pocketing a town player who is townreading people who agree with eim but then switching to going against someone (bitmap) who has a team that scumreads Alisae. That last sentence was very badly constructed so I'll say it again but in a better and different way: the way Alisae switched eis read on both bitmap and you at close times resembles very much to me someone who is "powerwolfing", and trying to get back into being read in the townblock while demonstrating how e is trying to go against the team that scum reads him.

(Just to be clear and just saying this as a reminder, I have before scumread Alisae before the whole bitmap thing happened, and remember, that's when Ali's read on bitmap switched, after I said my scumread).

-----

There's 2 more NSG posts and I might just post them tomorrow.

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That last sentence was very badly constructed so I'll say it again but in a better and different way: the way Alisae switched eis read on both bitmap and you at close times resembles very much to me someone who is "powerwolfing", and trying to get back into being read in the townblock while demonstrating how e is trying to go against the team that scum reads him.

Going to fix this for NSG, it's more about how it's self serving in how it's pushing against a team that scumreads eim.

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I feel like no one gives a shit about my posts so we're going to just play as a team in everything.

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RC wants to add something.

He said that him and NSG are here just to lynch scum and not have dank/spicy reads. If you think the read we posted is correct, vote with us.

why does NSG say vote "with us" when your vote is on me who she had no thoughts on either way. It must have been a source of friction, her havin me null when RC has me lockscum and I'm your number 2-3 - so it seems that NSG would be especially keen to notice that you're voting against her suspicions.

The quote clearly states that "RC wants to add something"

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I'll ask her about it now and prioritize posting her response to that.

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She currently leans town on Kerset but it's a read that she would not have any strong reasons to really convince someone on.

So I would assume she doesn't have that strong of an opinion on Kerset atm.

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Did NSG read 1697 which I just posted

Because I think Kerset's votes with context absolutely scream scum

She said it doesn't scream scum to her but rather it screams that you're probably town.

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Are you truly, truly fucking tell me that RC wanted to add a comment that "NSG and him are here to lynch scum"

yes

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@Ali

NSG wanted to know what happened to bitmap being scum or are you trying to scare NSG off?

[Bitmap]

The read hasn’t changed

She said why would she feel bad if our slot is scum?

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She wants to know what do you mean by "fall" and what kind?

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Moar NSG posting cause why not
-----

My issue with the scumreads other than Mena is that they're lazy and uncompelling, not so much that they're wrong. I'd be much more interested in hearing more about the reads I think are spicy (Kers/Shadoweh) than the ones that I see as boring though.

Please clarify what you mean by "lazy and uncompelling"? I haven't given you any insight in my reasoning on the reads you mentioned or how they came into fruition. So I would have to think it'd be strange that you thought that my reads themselves were created lazily, or if my reasons were somehow uncompelling before you knew what they were. If you are trying to assume ideas to my reasoning before I've given any of that, you could "guess" what my reasoning was and consider then uncompelling. I would like to say that it would be quite presumptuous and more than a little bit suspicious. I really hope that's not what you're trying to say and I don't really think that is is, though.

With that being said, it has to be something with the people themselves then, no? It seems like I don't really understand your motives here, and the path to winning is not going to be coming out of a super spicy read that's revolutionary and never heard of before. I can't seem to really imagine your thought process so I'm just gonna let you elaborate.

Ali at the time was unmotivated Ali, which is really easy to just say is scum Ali (see: Ali lynch in FotM, a game RC won and NSG modded). Thus, boring. If nsg was saying Ali from the last few pages was scummy, that'd be more spicy.

In my opinion, this is sort of a weak defense of Alisae and also being overly broad. Do you believe that because Alisae is being lazy, that there can be no valid scumreads on eim? Just cause you said this before my substational reasoning to scum read Alisae makes it ring all the more hollow.

(And, to be clear, I think there are reasons to be found for scum!Alisae in both periods of time, both coming from the last few pages of this game and from "unmotivated Alisae".)

You're not wrong that my read on Chem is lazy. I'm just looking at the multiple choice bubbles going "Do I flip a coin or do I hope the asshole to the left actually studied" and going "Eh, at least if the asshole to the left didn't study I'm going to look stupid in a group as opposed to looking stupid alone." It's a slightly less dumb way of not actually bothering to try to improve myself.

Okay, eh, I guess I don't have much of a problem with this.

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In my opinion, this is sort of a weak defense of Alisae and also being overly broad. Do you believe that because Alisae is being lazy, that there can be no valid scumreads on eim?

Just cause

The fact that you said this before my substational reasoning to scum read Alisae makes it ring all the more hollow.

fixed

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@ofrhz

nsg wants u to unvote

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Should we just get GIF to read Alisae?

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I have to give like 3 more NSG posts and I'm procrastinating by watching this:

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Reading what some players have posted in this game is vomit inducing.

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NSG posting

-------

@Chemist

So I've thought about your early game posting somewhat and thought it was somewhat uninspiring, and didn't see any point from there to really townread you or increase that read. I recall in some of the pop-ins that you had that I believed to be fairly lacklustre (sorry but no offense). It's not that I overtly scumread you but you are in my PoE.

I'm well aware that other people or well a lot of other people town read you and while Mathdino would tell me to trust them, I sort of wanted to verify a bit of what they were saying for myself and haven't had the time to get around to it. There is a distinct and important difference between a math dino "trust someone when they claim 100% townreads backed up over multiple games (sometimes)" and "trusting the general consensus on players/people". One might consider that to be a poignant difference (inside joke btw).

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NSG posting

------

@ofrhz

My scum pool is more of a PoE than a bunch of scumreads. Jingle town read is a super weak one and I don't expect or intend to sway anyone on it.

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NSG really really likes this game for some reason. Idk why so I'm going to let her play more of this while I look at our other games and don't tilt from this one.

If you don't like this, I can give you RC instead.

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RC wanted to leave a message here

------

Just wanted to let you guys know that I can't be assed to attempt to carry y'all because most of you guys are like legit un-carriable right now.

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Can't wait to be done with this game and see town throwing away the advice of 2 paragon level players because people in this game believe they're better than Paragon level yet never get suggested or come even close to it.

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Can't wait to be done with this game and see town throwing away the advice of 2 paragon level players because people in this game believe they're better than Paragon level yet never get suggested or come even close to it.

This sentence came from 100% me.

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I really don't wanna play this game anymore.

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NSG post

----------------

I'm going to try to keep things consise so it makes communication faster and is easier for bitmap to paraphrase.

To vote who, and why?

To just unvote a wagon that was at L-1 so the day doesn't end immediately.

---

I explained why I'm not inclined to think your read on Mena will be exciting/compelling, and you saying you don't have a bias there doesn't actually do much to convince me that you don't have a bias there. Particularly when I just arrived at a fairly strong townread on him through the end of G+R.

The reads you had in G+R have nothing to do with me. I just feel like it's not totally unfair to say that you're projecting your own ideas and thoughts onto me? Like, as a statement of fact instead of as an accusation.

Alisae is very easy to scumread erroneously when e's demotivated, so I don't think your scumread on Ali that originated in a time when e was demotivated is particularly likely to be incredibly accurate or telling.

You are seemingly ignoring what I've said that I think there are reasons behing Alisae being scum in both "periods of time".

In general, I just find it somwhat odd how many broad strokes you take in finding these reasons to just dismiss what I've been saying. I have doubts that this sounds believable, but I assure you I am not offended. For what I've been saying, that is not the reason. I do not expect that everyone is just going to believe what I'm saying or treat my words as gospel, even though that it is an easy accusation to make against me. (And some of the comments from RC might have made people believe this way, but that isn't the case)

--

I think Green Reundo actually firms up Green Ali, because scum don't tend to want to build castles on sand, if that makes sense.

In my opinion, this is not a good understanding of what "powerwolfing" is, or in general to how Alisae plays scum. I don't claim to be an expert in being able to read Alisae, however I am fairly confident that Alisae has no problems as scum to push mislynches.

--

Bitmap, Reundo is no longer at L-1 so I think I’ll keep my vote there for now. But what’s up?

The threat of a hammer was a possibility and I thought you were the best person to

reach out to

for that, thanks.

--

The other one doesn't have any sort of read on me (but also no problem on you being parked on me?) and her scum pool is apparently "a bunch of PoE"? Y'all are sitting and fuming that we "can't be carried" because we're "throwing away your advice" to...do fucking *what*? Lynch hito who we're not talking about, but also hito is more of a null read and we should lynch in my PoE pool of 4, one of which we're in the process of lynching?

It is fine to not have coherent beliefs but there's just no way you all have this much internal skew and uncertainty on reads while simultaneously being frustrated we're "not listening to you" and throwing out exactly the same "You are bad players" arguments that your team apparently finds extremely offensive.

I believe that you're making a bunch of attribution errors. I have no desire to babysit bitmap's actions. I'm not here to puppeteer him or dictate to him what to do. I want to use my words to convince people of my reasoning. You seem to be attributing this frustration of "not listening" to all of us, however this isn't the case.

I believe if you were to ask more concise questions, it would be apparent that there really isn't as much "internal skew" as you claim.

[Bitmap]

bitmap what does gif think of this game

he's dead lately

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@jjh

NSG wants to know if you talked to your team at all or not.

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NSG post

--------

that is such a generic statement bitmap

In my opinion, this is not a good understanding of what "powerwolfing" is, or in general how anyone plays scum. I don't claim to be an expert in being able to read anyone, however I am fairly confident that anyone has no problems as scum to push mislynches.

Not everyone plays like that as scum. There are a bunch of players (I would say most players) as scum that generally prefer to play as they do as town, and don't really do much specific effort to hard push mislynches.

I believe that you don't think that sort of way. I believe that you think that as scum that you aren't town so as a result, you shouldn't be trying to imitate yourself as town, you should be playing to benefit scum. I'm almost confident that I could find quotes to support this if I looked around.

Jingle's line of reasoning might be correct and apply to some players but some players are probably reticent to pushing really hard for mislynches when they're scum. This is not the case for you.

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@jjh

NSG wants to know if you talked to your team at all or not.

NSG ought to know I've talked to skitter

She said that she knows in the team mafia but very-close-to-rulebreaking way that you and skitter have probably talked to each other but was wondering about this game in particular and if anything has resulted from it.

[Bitmap]

I've mentioned talking to skitter in this game

We haven't been agreeing on things

NSG wants to know if you missed the whole post that she made directed towards you or if she missed a post since then in regards to you talking to your team. Can you verify if either or neither are true?

[Bitmap]

Oh you meant since that post

I've only been talking with Skitter and we haven't been agreeing on things

NSG wants to know what skitter's read on Alisae is and who skitter's top scumread is if you can.

[Bitmap]

Oh you meant since that post

I've only been talking with Skitter and we haven't been agreeing on things

NSG wants to know what skitter's read on Alisae is and who skitter's top scumread is if you can.

NSG wants to know if it has changed from hito or not.

[Bitmap]

Oh you meant since that post

I've only been talking with Skitter and we haven't been agreeing on things

NSG wants to know what skitter's read on Alisae is and who skitter's top scumread is if you can.

NSG wants to know if it has changed from hito or not.

NSG also wants to know if you can elaborate why you are townreading Alisae if not because e's "on the same page" as you?

[Bitmap]

How come NSG is doing all this engaging through you but doesn't appear to be convincing you of any reads? This all feels more like a heartfelt appeal than an attempt to place people

NSG's response: I'm working on a post relating to how our team is communicating atm but felt it was kind of weird to post but now if you ask for it I'll post it.

My response: Because sometimes I like watching the world burn in a slow but destructive fire and RC isn't in this game to create it. Also, I'm experiencing sad boi hours.

[Bitmap]

@hito:

NSG said she has no clue what you are saying in either of those paragraphs.

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NSG case

-----------------

I just wanted to go into reasons to why I scumread Alisae. These are the three primary reasons I scumread e.

1. Political Reads

"Political reads" was a term Mathdino has used a bunch. Pretty much, it's when you have reads that are easy to have over the ones that you really believe in. I believe the most obvious evidence of this was when Alisae did a hard 180 flip on JJH and Bitmap, however there is evidence in through the rest of the game. Some of this involves bitmap but you don't have to believe in bitmap being town in order to see that Alisae's reads have been political.


We see this at a key time in our first example where bitmap has a read on Alisae where he is unsure of what to think of e, and shortly after relays a message from RC where RC talks about about how mastina is scum.

Spoiler:

jj's read list is really bad.

Scum is pushing Klick because they think he's a weak slot.

Who specifically is doing this?

I originally thought it could be Alisae but I'm unsure what I think of Alisae atm.

RC wanted me to pass something to this thread. He said he's pretty sure that Mastina is scum who's getting away with murder since there are people who are willing to buy into her "aaa spooky RC" perspective but hasn't been really interested in pursuing it cause he feels like people knowing the read coming from RC is going to discredit it and bitmap doesn't really feel interested in pushing it by himself because this game is demoralizing and shit.

Alisae quickly hops on the Mastina wagon and aligns eirself with RC's scumread that he had spoken about.

Spoiler:

Do this but just for my slot

You're in luck--I'm in the same mindset I was when I listed you as a townread!

That is to say, rather notably tired.

This mindset isn't the most productive to explaining things but it's the only mindset I can be in to explain the read since it was a read born of this mindset.

Basically I didn't intentionally have you as deliberately-unsorted, but I noticed that I wasn't making any effort to really sort you.
In my bout of tiredness, when catching up on the game and reading your posts around that time and the ones from shortly before then that were fresh on mind even though I had read them, I basically liked what I was seeing you do in spite of having the knowledge that I probably shouldn't but the gut-townread from what I was seeing was still there all the same.

Your contributions to this game just look town, mostly. Are they? Ehhh...probably not, it wouldn't surprise me if the people who actually know how to read you well would say you've done nothing that is strongly alignment indicative. And not gonna lie some of your earlier posting did look suspicious but in the very-brief "I am scumreading everyone in this game" sort of way where I realize I'm basically not townreading anyone and force a reset of standards to 'okay reset them to null then just work from there'. But the posting around the time I posted the townread on you was posting that I liked the mindset behind of as being something that it looked like it was genuinely trying to solve the game in.

Earlier I thought it was weird that u didn’t scumread me since u always do when we’re both town.
Now I’m absolutely 100% convinced
I don’t think u have a read on me at all
I think u just know I’m town because r scum
VOTE: mastina

Btw I definitely think mastina v bitmap is not a TvT

like I think bitmap just wanting to use my script to not read mastina’s posts seems more town indicative then scum indicative and bitmap seems to feel like he’s being super marginalized.
Like maybe that makes him town but his playstyle is freaking me out

Mastina read on you looks like a lazy version of my read on you that I haven't explained outside of my head yet

She always scumreads me when we’re town.
ALWAYS

It is veritably true that Alisae had scumread mastina beforehand. What makes this political is the velocity with which e jumped on the wagon and tried to align with Bitmap when RC made something of a big commotion about mastina being scum, and

most importantly

, how fast e hopped

off

the wagon when RC mentions that Alisae was scum in his reads. Lets also note how much mastina is transformed into a "PoE scumread" rather than the intensity of the previous attacks and pushes.

Spoiler:

I'm still unsure of Alisae.

RC thinks Alisae is scum.

VOTE: jingle
im not exactly sure I am feeling Klick or hito anymore

my towncore is still Shadoweh Chemist Mena Kerset
I feel comfortable adding Bitmap there tbh

Voting GE is a waste of time

that leaves Jingle ofhrz and mastina

---

Lastly, we have examples of

hard

read changes on two different players that to my eyes, demonstrates clear confirmation of political aligning. That would be on both JJH and Bitmap.

1. JJH
   • I think that somewhere in the middle through Alisae's push on JJH, e had noticed two things:
     1. JJH would most likely have a scum read on eir if e continued to push him.
        
     2. JJH is the type of player who would town read eir if e town reads him.
   • You can see clear evidence of this in JJH mentioning that Alisae is knowledgeable of jjh's meta. Please go back and re-read that whole interaction, and notice how quick both Alisae's JJH read switch from the bottom to the absolute top, and how immediately that e shrugs it off and attempts to get straight into "so let's talk about reads".
   Spoiler:

   I don't like the Mastina wagon, sure
   
   But you know my meta? Like, why is activity from me concerning to you at all?

   I'm sure you know that aspect of my play. Because it used to be exclusively my townplay and sure, now I can do it as scum too, for as long as I can stay enthusiastic, but it's weird that you're seeing something I was doing as early as spring fever and interpreting it completely wrong
   
   PEdit: Not for lack of trying. But I pointed that out because changing people's minds is A. Hard and B. Opens you up to more accountability.

   my memory sucks dude

   look you wanna dwell on this or would you like to chat about other things.
   Look let's start with reads.
   what does your list exactly look like, I know some of your reads like Bitmap Kerset scum mastina town but I don't have a grasp for all of them

   I'll order mine from strength again
   hito, jjh, bitmap, shadoweh, mena
   Klick, chemist, Kerset
   Jingle
   mastina
   ofrhz Reundo

   
   
   
2. Bitmap
   • I believe that this has received very little notice and attention in spite of just how obvious I believe it is. Alisae's read on bitmap switched from the top of eir reads list to the immediate bottom, and all that it took to have that happen was that I said I scumread Alisae.
   Spoiler:

   Ok nsg is wrong ig we kill bitmap

   Ok so I flip town and then town kills you
   I like this gameplan

   Sure trust the princess paragon that’s fiiiiiiine
   Nsg should be able to read me correctly
   If she wants to out an incorrect read u can die when I flip.

   {Mena Hito Shadoweh mastina jjh Klick}
   {Chemiboi, Jingle}
   {ofhrz}
   {Reundo}
   {Kerset, Bitmap}

   • I do not plan to make the claim that this is due to Alisae being "scared" of me or anything. What I will mention is that this is completely and absolutely political posturing. While before in the game it was convenient for Alisase to use RC's anger towards mastina and aligning with Bitmap, after just pocketing JJH and noticing that both me and RC scumreading eir, it has become easy to align with the {JJH, Mastina} block. I'm going to go more definitively into Alisae's response to being scumread later, however.

---

How's this been working out? It has actually been quite an efficient strategy.

• Mastina is townreading Alisae for pretty much townreading her.
  
  Spoiler: Mastina

  Yeah and if Alisae/Jingle are scum, they would be scum in large part specifically for this--of recognizing that my play here is my towngame, of recognizing that just like in that game there was really no fucking reason behind the suspicion on my slot, of me being wagoned for literally nothing,

  and choosing to in spite of that similarity, press me as a scumread anyway

  .
  
  

  Both are currently townreads in part because tracking their thought processes

  (I think I read up to some page number in either the high-50s or low-60s so that's about where I am with this recollection), as far as I can tell, they haven't opted for this, more or less. They have done this recognition at least partially, even if not fully.

  
  
  
• Jjh mentions how it's not just cause Alisae is "on the same page" as him,
  but I don't see any other validation from him
  and in the process of writing this case outright said that it is because Alisae reading him as town.
  
  Spoiler: JJH

  Mastina's been where I'm at for ages
  Jingle looks to be pretty nearby
  

  Alisae is now where I'm at
  

  Menalque is here if you squint
  
  This is an elite towncore

  NSG also wants to know if you can elaborate why you are townreading Alisae if not because e's "on the same page" as you?

  The read went to hard town shortly after e realised I was town

  . Look at the realisation and the justification and the behind the scenes work that would be totally unnecessary for scum and the read progression everywhere else in the game that follows from it. That's town.

  
  
  
• The "townblock" has become a serious talking point of discussion.
  
  Spoiler:

  If we are wrong and we haven't nailed the scumteam but we're 2/3 and there is scum in the bloc and we lynch bitmap now, the kills are going to be made by the individual who is in the block.

  And if there ISN'T scum in the bloc and we are 3/3 (or 2/3 and someone is bussing), there isn't going to be much resistance to lynching their buddies tomorrow.
  
  Lynching Bitmap today establishes dominance and allows us to control the agenda and flow of the game if we're right with bitmap kerset and reundo containing scum.

  I'm also thinking about what kills scum can take to break up our townbloc if bitmap is scum

  ok but with you dead the bloc is significantly weaker
  with the bloc being significantly weaker, its easier for bitmap to break it apart

[Bitmap]

It's not about the fact that Alisae is townreading me or Mastina. It's the way the conclusion is reached, and the thought process behind it.

NSG said that for the best scum players, it's not really about what is necessary or not but about what's effective.

[Bitmap]

@hito:

I believe that you're making a bunch of attribution errors.

I have no desire to babysit bitmap's actions. I'm not here to puppeteer him or dictate to him what to do. I want to use my words to convince people of my reasoning.

You seem to be attributing this frustration of "not listening" to all of us, however this isn't the case.

VOTE: Alisae

[Bitmap]

I have confidence in nsg's case.

[Bitmap]

Hot. Going to get a freebie for my team mafia team.

VOTE: Mena

[Bitmap]

I’ll do my best

[Bitmap]

Can’t wait for NSG to get upset with my posts

[Bitmap]

lol I received the hated modifier cause someone gave me a talisman

[Bitmap]

I have a somewhat spicy post but I need a few hours since I'm at work.

[Bitmap]

Feels bad man. I wanted to leave so I didn't have to type anymore and smoke with Alisae in California next week.

RC says Jingle is last scum. I'm going to get NSG's last reads and then chill in Cali all of next week so I'll probably put VLA tags again.

[Bitmap]

Oof sorry Alisae

I think I should claim anyway since it’s very likely someone stopped the scum nk. I vigged Allisae last night

LMFAOOOOOO

why didn't u vig me?

[Bitmap]

I withheld a message from RC cause he needed to do something for me. Here is his message:

He wants to let everyone know that he told nsg last night that ali was not scum so he can feel good.

[Bitmap]

I thought you were town because NSG had two flipped scum in her PoE

Also I liked NSG’s scumread on Alisae

Are you in our discord channel?

My team said that we were not getting lynched because NSG had two flipped scum in her PoE and I was told to prove it and I'm trying to dig up the posts but I couldn't find it.

Can you find my NSG posts for me so I can actually figure out what I'm doing?

[Bitmap]

no suck it in like a few hours I'll have spicy reasons why I'm like literally innocent child level and u can't stop me bitches

[Bitmap]

Also I still don't trust your reads because you never scumread Mena and wanted him in the hood as mason buddies hence the shitty day 1 fuckery you did.

But he was scum and you just did that to look good.

[Bitmap]

ur reads are still shit and lynching me is negative utility bwwahjahhahahahahaha

[Bitmap]

dont lynch me if u want nsg to carry u for last deep scum

or else I'll only have RC play this game to make this a toxic waste dump

[Bitmap]

RC has a message

----------

He thinks that Jingle is in fact scum because due to how clearly Mena was all in on bussing Reundo and it suggests that it was a whole scum team wide thing so it doesn't make sense that the partner would be someone like (alisae) or Kerset who has repeatedly waffling if it wasn't the scum's agenda to have him lynched anyways? Where as Jingle had some bizzare reads that reads like TMI to me at this point in time, refused to have voted Ali with us, and had a really early game hop on the Reundo wagon which made no sense from where he was at. Also, Mena-Jingle interactions kept feeling really awkward to RC and is interested in a second opinion on that.

[Bitmap]

Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

This was NSG’s PoE

ok ty ofrhz bby. I appreciate that you aren't stubborn as a rock.

[Bitmap]

Tell RC he's cute.

He's not cute honestly. But okay.

[Bitmap]

Tell RC he's cute.

He said if it's not u, then it's hito, but said it's probably you.

[Bitmap]

No I should definitely reach lylo.

[Bitmap]

ur reads are still shit and lynching me is negative utility bwwahjahhahahahahaha

Mate you apparently have reading comprehension issues.

I DON'T want you lynched today.
I feel, for good reason, that you shouldn't reach lylo. If not today or lylo, that leaves two options, tomorrow or the day after.
This lynch wouldn't be a Lynch that I'd expect to hit scum.
It'd be a combination "just in case" lynch + information lynch.

I don't think that you are scum, but if you live to lylo, your ass is getting lynched 100% so if you are town you should know not to let yourself reach there.

But, I have reasonably good reasons for my poe.
Jingle is outside of it for good reason.

You're not wrong about my approach to Mena, but you're doing yourself no favors by trying to dismiss the one who did ultimately catch him.

RC wanted me to send you a message:

SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Bitmap]

Tell RC he's cute.

He said if it's not u, then it's hito, but said it's probably you.

He said it's been revised 50/50 on hito/jingle.

[Bitmap]

I mean...

He's pretty cute. RC has never once tr-d me correctly, including a game when we were both innod by two separate cops. The read does look genuine though!

Lucky. I want to be scum read by RC. He literally townreads me as town and then ignores me for the rest of the game so I have to act incredibly stupid for him to notice me senpai.

[Bitmap]

haha sorry Ali I went to bed after posting that and now I have work. But good for you townie as shit reaction because that was pretty clearly motivated by guilt and not fear. Will engage more tonight (but late tonight cause I have Unknown Armies after work)
RC wants this quoted with no comment and wanted to add he wasn't town reading mena at the time.

Hi. I have actual messages from

NSG

.

She said that I've been completely mistreated this game and that is not fair for me. She believes Klick and ofrhz (there's you're town read from NSG, ofrhz) are both locktown and has weaker town reads on [Shadoweh, Jingle, Kerset]. Her scum pool is right now [Menalque, Chemise, Reundo, Alisae] and thinks out of all of them, Alisae is most likely scum.

She has more things to say but wanted to know if I was okay with paraphrasing her blocks of text and I said that's fine so expect some more NSG in this thread down the road.

Once again: why vote me when I was your mastina greenflip suspicion, when you (presumably) think mastina is very likely to flip red?

Also here, have some bonus questions to drive engagement: do you disagree with my assessment above that Alisae's reaction (1341 and the huge spew that followed) was driven by guilt for non-cooperation vs. some more scummy motivation? What do you think was alisae-scum's thought process for eir stuff just now?

I also desperately need to hear how NSG got locktown for ofr from ofr pretty brazenly tooting around without any sorta scumread on anything. Especially with menalque in the scumpool.

[Bitmap]

He said he wanted this quoted with no comment at this time and wanted to let everyone know he was not townreading mena at the time.

[Bitmap]

I'm only hated for today. Not infinite bby.

[Bitmap]

RC wanted to say stuff.

Basically he's saying either that if hito is as good as the hype is around him, speedlynch him cause his play is below the floor of a decently good player.

[Bitmap]

hi rc

He sends you hearts.

[Bitmap]

I had my own reads but no one wants to hear bitmap reads so I'ma just have NSG carry this game.

[Bitmap]

RC leaves a message here.

-------------------------

Kerset is the scum for a bunch of reasons.

1) Why the fuck would Kerset have done a friendly neighbor on jjh when he clearly had him as scum in {mastina/jjh}. It makes no sense outside of being the possible nightkill so no one has to support that claim. Also, Kerset and his D1 play doesn't resemble the play of someone who can have access to friendly neighbor. They would have been not worried about getting scumread because they can just claim and get townread.

2) You're all assigning town credibility by being on the wagon but instead it's the fucking opposite. As I said before, if Mena's vote is the first vote on the wagon and hard pushing it you can be goddamn sure that his other partner will also be on the wagon as well. Reundo pretty much just outright given up on this game. Strongman or not, scum were'nt going to put themselves in a shitty position by risking to defend him and thus the positions that make the most sense for scum are the early votes. If for some miracle, for some reason, Jingle is somehow conftown, that leaves prettty much kerset and did I forget to mention that his interactions with Reundo were terrible? The "lurkers get no sympathy from me" is bad and 1913 is so disgustingly SvS looking post.

3) Your positions as a group in this game just suck.

Klick isn't scum.
Shadoweh isn't scum.
We're not scum.
Mastina isn't scum
Ofrhz isn't scum.

We don't know what ever reasoning mechanically that you're using to clear people outside of all of that but Kerset can easily be claiming commuter as an ascetic role and the reasoning that they claimed friendly neighbor on a target WHO IS DEAD with ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of being in an ISO in thread doesn't bode well with me.

[Bitmap]

Oh yeah, he also adds this.

Shut up mastina.

VOTE: Kerset

[Bitmap]

scum in {mastina/jjh}.

RC wanted me to fix this as "one out of two scum in JJH/mastina".

[Bitmap]

RC wanted to clarify the last bit as there is no evidence of being a friendly neighbor and there's a bunch of stuff that is pointing against it.

[Bitmap]

RC also wanted me to add a few more of these for some reasons and I agree:

shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina
shut up mastina

[Bitmap]

@RC/Bit
I have mechanical confirmation that Kerset commuted last night

It's unlikely they could do that and take the kill at the same time

RC wants to know if it's actually that they commuted or that your action failed? Even then, there wasn't a night kill...

[Bitmap]

Wait hold the fucking phone for a minute.

Mastina calls me town and thinks we're going to lose in a 3p lylo when my team is the most stacked at the moment and NSG got 2/4 in her PoE pool.

Let that sink in right now...

[Bitmap]

Mastina calls my slot town and then is like

"lol lets lynch them anyways"

This game is fucking aids.

[Bitmap]

That's it, you're getting the rest of the game with RC and his divine right theory on this game.

Fuck it.

[Bitmap]

@RC/Bit
I have mechanical confirmation that Kerset commuted last night

It's unlikely they could do that and take the kill at the same time

RC wants to know if it's actually that they commuted or that your action failed? Even then, there wasn't a night kill...

the latter

but I doubt it's that I was roleblocked

RC wanted to know if you ever heard of a role called "Ascetic" before.

[Bitmap]

And RC says

shut up mastina

[Bitmap]

Like there's literally nothing to be pissy about unless you're scum flailing to try and somehow reach LyLo.

RC said

There's so much to be pissy about when you guys decided to suddenly mech clear someone who claimed friendly neighbor on dead while having no reason to target dead (jjh) and the reasoning wasn't there?

[Bitmap]

UNVOTE:

RC seems determined it's Kerset but I will get some more opinions (NSG in particular) on it.

[Bitmap]

So I'm talking to RC and there's one really good point that I'd like some answers to.

Why would this game have a friendly neighbourizer and a loyal neighbourizer in the same game?

[Bitmap]

So I'm talking to RC and there's one really good point that I'd like some answers to.

Why would this game have a friendly neighbourizer and a loyal neighbourizer in the same game?

Because they're very different abilities?

RC is saying that the odds of having two innocent child roles in a heavy PR heavy role madness game that also has vig/jk/etc is tremendous. Too much town power.

Scum, in this game, has not had close to enough powers flipped for this to be balanced with 2 IC roles, let alone one of them that can be unstoppable and protect itself.

[Bitmap]

*unstoppably protect itself

fixed.

[Bitmap]

Why would Five Guys have burgers *and* fries?

Wait, they have burgers and fries? I thought that was a peanut restaurant.

I usually skip the fries and just grab a bunch of peanuts with a normal cheeseburger with everything.

[Bitmap]

Since we're in an anime game and I wanna just post dank memes and not only RC stuff.

Has anyone played Arknights? It just released as a mobile game yesterday.



Give me your friend codes if you got em.

[Bitmap]

I claim RC junior.

Also, don't really care about getting lynched since I'll be gone.

RC wants people after I get lynched to stop wanking each other off about how amazing you used to be and should just sheep the people who know what they're doing in 2020.

[Bitmap]

RC said that if you guys lynch Shadoweh that we'll hunt you guys down irl and unplug your fridges.

[Bitmap]

I mean I'm not lying in that claim, but my actual role is VT.

[Bitmap]

Shadoweh, do u still think I'm town?

[Bitmap]

RC said don't bring hito or Kerset into endgame.

[Bitmap]

ok RC is being stupid now

He said all of your mother's wears army boots.

[Bitmap]

I'm an adult seal.

[Bitmap]

I feel like it's getting worse that I can't concentrate on mafia games unless they're literally a circus or dumpster fires and I don't know how to fix this.

[Bitmap]

Hi so this was something that was suggested that I should do once a particular event happened.

NSG flipped scum in her game (White Flag). We have no other scum roles in our team.

The reason why NSG was heavily invested in this game was because she actively wanted to play a game where we had a town slot in and she said she really liked playing this game instead. I told her she was nuts.

[Bitmap]

I probably would of swapped games with her if I could since I'd rather play scum cause playing town sucks ass but that was not allowed this year but apparently allowed previous years.

[Bitmap]

She still wants to support this game and I mean, she's gotten 2/4 scum in her scum PoE so it's a safe bet that she can probably peg the last scum. I don't really see why she wants to carry this game since we're

down material

.

[Bitmap]

Sorry Shadoweh, my team was already at a huge disadvantage because I fucking hate playing town and NSG hates playing scum.

Also, if mastina and hito comes in here all and continue to insinuate that I'm scum, I'm denying NSG giving reads in this game.

[Bitmap]

I'm going to repeat this again, I'll deny NSG giving reads and helping find the last deep wolf if there's still insinuation that I'm scum.

[Bitmap]

Btw above posting was all me.

Dunn says all you have to do is actually look town, nsg doesn't have to post reads. He thinks you can do it! :thumbs up:
In all seriousness though if you and mastina could be a little more genki kawaii and a little less toxic hellspace that makes me not want to look at the thread that would be great

owo Dunn is great. He was really fun to dance and I'll try.

Idk willing to work with her. I'll try to figure all of this when it's not super late.

[Bitmap]

Deep down, I think one of the PRs are lying. Otherwise, PP made a really town-sided setup.

[Bitmap]

also no one on my team believes that's not RC posting all of the above sans 2249, does "me" mean RC now or

The only thing we discussed very briefly about in our discord channel with everyone (including the seal) was below:

NSG flipped scum in her game (White Flag). We have no other scum roles in our team.

Denying NSG reads if town acts dumb is from me and the whole swapping games with NSG if we could was me and NSG talking about how much we rather have swapped games due to alignments.

[Bitmap]

We were actually planning on playing telephone and I was going to play NSG's game through NSG and NSG was going to play my game through me.

[Bitmap]

And RC said that even RC mentioned that you were going to think it was him but it 100% is not.

[Bitmap]

Hito, do you remember that time when you called us scum in general for townreading Ofrhz and not having a scum read on Mena and do you think you should be giving reads or being quiet.

[Bitmap]

The fact that you still think I'm scum when NSG flipped scum in her game and she explicitly actively played mine because she clearly likes town cause maybe she has this title called

PARAGON

implying that she must at least enjoy playing town a lot more than scum.

[Bitmap]

Also no offense to NSG, she would not be my first go-to if I was scum in this game.

[Bitmap]

No one on my team ever told me how to move my vote. Even if they explicitly seem like if they were in my shoes would vote for someone, it doesn't mean I'll immediately vote on the same target. NSG just wanted to dump her reads and play out this game cause she was enjoying it.

[Bitmap]

Also Shadoweh, can you tell Dunn the biggest problem I have as town is looking like town. He should know this from personal experience.

Ironically though, my scum meta makes me look textbook town and I was able to fool Shoshin and prevent RC from going after my neck when I was scum in a game with them.

[Bitmap]

Also on NSG's behalf, she doesn't like to laud and wave her Paragon title around over people and that what I said doesn't come from her either.

[Bitmap]

Does Dunn think one of the PRs is scum?

[Bitmap]

I highly doubt denying NSG reads in this game is considered anti-town and I'd even DM PP just to prove it.

[Bitmap]

@Mod:

Is not allowing my teammates to post reads considered against town win-con?

[Bitmap]

Does Dunnstral actually have any scum reads if he ignored all the PR claims?

[Bitmap]

It's clearly not playing against my win-con but I'll wait for PP to respond.

If I'm using my own reads as genuine and attempting to solve, it's not game throwing. It's just that instead of going 150%, I'm going 100%.

[Bitmap]

I just pinged the mods in our discord chat because mastina is threatening me with a ban and I'd rather not get banned.

Mastina has a colored name so she should know how bans work.

[Bitmap]

Like if mastina is actually going to threaten me with a ban, I'm going to go fucking apeshit and I don't need RC for this.

[Bitmap]

Yeah, I was told that mastina wasn't staff and to just ignore her.

Idk I just see colored names and I assume color = staff. Can't blame a programmer for thinking very linearly.

[Bitmap]

I just saying I don't fuck around with that "ban" shit ever.

I still think a PR is probably lying btw.

[Bitmap]

VOTE: Bitmap
My team thinks this is the best option for today and NSG is mia and mod confirmed I won’t get in trouble.

[Bitmap]

I’m free