Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Eddie Cane]

If nothing else, this is helping me double down on nancy!town

[Eddie Cane]

Lol

[Eddie Cane]

Lol

[Eddie Cane]

Oka I'm not not voting either krazy or pops, at this point. Even if 1 of the 2 is town.

[Eddie Cane]

Are you still extremely confident krazy is town?

[Eddie Cane]

I dont think I've ever interacted with him before this game, mafia or otherwise.

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Pops

[Eddie Cane]

Pine flips town

Nancy dies

Krazy Pops lead eddie mislynch

Bob dies

Oh well it was tvt what can you do

[Eddie Cane]

Substitute DDL for pine and it still works. The caveat is if the lynch actually hits scum d1. However, I know I'm town and wouldnt be a part of it, so the odds lower.

[Eddie Cane]

You die because you're universal town and hard defending me

Bob dies because idk switch it out for whoever is utr at the time, apparently everyone has bob town

[Eddie Cane]

It bothers me that 1966 has this teabagging assumption of reading everything I do as scum but doesn't actually canvas for votes, that might be what Ali means by saying it's a post like he's ahead.

It has been really interesting to see how Ali's approach to town (oh wait I don't have to backspace VT thanks Ed) VT is different and makes me wish maybe I hydra'ed more, though I'm pretty firmly against the unfair advantage element and want pure-hydra-games to come up

Theres a phone operator too, so yes, if you were town you would have to backspace VT.

[Eddie Cane]

@Elsa you're as bad as Yume, btw. I dunno why people sign up for an event like this if they dont intend to play the game. I'm saying this with you voting with me.

[Eddie Cane]

Mm, your iso isnt actually as barren as I thought it was, so I'll retract that and half apologize. The comments like "I havent proved I'm town??" and "who is eddie" are all that came to mind.

[Eddie Cane]

Oh for sure, but is tinfoil like this scum indicative? I kinda don’t think so maybe?

In general, nah. Here, I think so, because it's part of trying to bury me. If hes town, its confbias, but if its mafia its just the strat of saying a lot of things and hoping people dont look too deeply at any of them.

I still am not currently voting them. If my solve of the game is completely wrong and it's like some SS Piss Pine team, I'm not going to get there with pops and krazy still alive. I really dont think I'm that wrong though.

[Eddie Cane]

Setup Information

Doctor Lonely (as designed by BBmolla):

Doctor Lonely

1 Mafia Rolecop Neighbor
2 Mafia Neighbors

1 Town Indecisive Doctor
1 Town Phone Operator Neighbor
10 Town Neighbors

• Mafia and neighborhoods have daytalk.
  
• Every neighborhood has two neighbors.
  
• Phone Operator checks a player each night. If the player had a neighbor at the beginning of that night phase, the Phone Operator learns the name of that neighbor. Otherwise they receive NO RESULT.
  
• Every neighborhood with a Mafia neighbor has a Town neighbor.
  
• Phone Operator could be paired with a Mafia Neighbor.

Spoiler: Sample Role PM's

Town Neighbor

Welcome to Team Mafia 2020!

The game thread can be found here.

You are a

Town Neighbor

.

You share a neighborhood with

PLAYER NAME

where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located here.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Town Indecisive Doctor

Welcome to Team Mafia 2020!

The game thread can be found here.

You are a

Town Indecisive Doctor

.

You may target one player per night phase. That player will be protected from kills during that night phase. You cannot target yourself or the player you targeted during the previous night phase.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Town Phone Operator Neighbor

Welcome to Team Mafia 2020!

The game thread can be found here.

You are a

Town Phone Operator Neighbor

.

You share a neighborhood with

PLAYER NAME

where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located here.

You may target one player per night phase. If that player had a neighbor at the beginning of the current Night Phase, you will told the name of that player's neighbor. If that player did not have a neighbor at the beginning of the current Night Phase, your investigation will fail and you will receive

NO RESULT

.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Mafia Neighbor

Welcome to Team Mafia 2020!

The game thread can be found here.

You are a

Mafia Neighbor

.

Your partners are

PLAYER NAME

, a

Mafia Rolecop Neighbor

and

PLAYER NAME

, a

Mafia Neighbor

. Together you share a factional kill each night. You also share a private thread where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located here.

You share a neighborhood with

PLAYER NAME

where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located here.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

Mafia Rolecop Neighbor

Welcome to Team Mafia 2020!

The game thread can be found here.

You are a

Mafia Rolecop Neighbor

.

Your partners are

PLAYER NAME

and

PLAYER NAME

, who are both a

Mafia Neighbor

. Together you share a factional kill each night. You also share a private thread where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located here.

You may target one player per night phase. At the end of the night phase, you will be informed of that player's role but not their alignment. If your investigation fails you will receive

NO RESULT

.

You share a neighborhood with

PLAYER NAME

where you may communicate as long as you are alive, located here.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

[Eddie Cane]

This game got boring I want flips

[Eddie Cane]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

[Eddie Cane]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

That progression from 2126 tho

Progression? You mean me pushing my top 2 kills to a town lean?

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

[Eddie Cane]

are you guys actually still calling krazy town? its actually appalling how far this site has fallen

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Sure. I will reply to this because I kind of want to soapbox about it anyways.

You are playing like a fucking moron if you do not tell your team your role pm. They are your team. They are there to help, coach, advise, whatever. That's the whole point of TEAM mafia, this isn't like MU champs where you play individually. Not telling them your team limits their ability to help you. The advantage is, what, they can give you "genuine townie reads"? In exchange for not getting their support about kill decisions, PR reads, thread decisions, directions to push, and still getting advice about who to push. And whatever else you ask. I dunno, I haven't had a teammate roll scum in team mafia for the second year in a row so I haven't had to experience it, but yea. The first thing I did in my chat was get pinged saying they got their roles, I checked MS, Micc had sent mine, I screenshotted it to them and bitched about being town in such an easy setup for scum. There was no "wait, what if I tell them I'm town and get their reads to pocket people" or other similar stupid ass thought process.

Ignoring that

, it is not scummy to philosophically disagree. It is scummy to push this as an "obvious scum post" when its clearly a fucking theory post which scum rarely lie about anyways. You are so fucking lucky NSG and Hito do not have a voice in this game and I don't care to case you.

[Eddie Cane]

and i would not be shocked if all 3 were in pine / elsa / piss / ddl / pops / krazy

so vote pine

Why would I vote somebody I town lean over somebody I scum read who has a bigger wagon?

pine has town points

ddl has no points. more of a spectator if anything

but i don't really mean to discuss my "reads". i'm only posting that because enough people have asked, and i should make it clear why i'm not joining either major wagon despite strongly believing voting people is how you kill scum

{Amrun, NaCl, Nancy, Oka, SS, Titus} - will not vote today
{Pine, Pisskop, bob, Hectic} - don't really want to vote today
{elsa, ddl} - if needed would policy vote today
{krazy, pops} - want to vote today


is this a good enough reads list?

I have never once put Pine as below town lean this game, I don't think. Helps that my teammates both town read him stronger than I do by a margin. Keep pushing your narrative though.

[Eddie Cane]

Why were you taking a break from this game?

Because I'd lost my cool and started to question a number of my reads. Hectic turning out Towny and the missteps surrounding nearly lynching him got me way off-balance. Eddie suggested I take a break from the game and I thought it was a good idea. I'm fresh and ready to catch up with a clear head.

My team has been keeping up to various degrees. Kuribo in particular wrote a page and a half, but I skimmed over it because I don't want it to influence me too much until I read myself. Then I'll try to summarize kuribo, mastina, and xtoxm's thoughts.

Have fun bro, hopefully you help me kill pops and krazy and dont fall into their shitty pockets

Last I checked, Pops was Town and Krazy was scum, so I'm on board for 50% of that.

I'm setting aside a couple of hours after dinner (cooking now) so we'll see after that.

I've wanted to kill Krazy slightly more than Pops for a while. But I am not putting in the legwork, and literally not one person would vote it with me, and if Pops is town she's an honorary fourth scum anyways so I don't really care. I do not agree Pops is being remotely townie, but I do agree she is slightly less scummy than Krazy (who is trending further down while Pops is trending very slightly up).

[Eddie Cane]

LOL

[Eddie Cane]

pagetop

VOTE: Pops
VOTE: Krazy
VOTE: Pops

[Eddie Cane]

I think Krazy is surprisingly scummy for how little he has been wagoned. He keeps disappearing and reappearing. I'm not very confident about reading him and haven't myself been pushing him because when I played town with him he was super bleh day 1 and obvtowned day 3. But I think that slot is really creepy. Ed asked me to think about the universe where Eddie is IC and I think in that universe it seems even weirder that Krazy is just always there.
DDL is like Krazy lite and has felt really off. Starting off sheeping me seemed like it could be both !hims but more like scum!him and nothing's really gotten super better. Similar to Krazy I trust him to be readable later. But he hasn't been great. I've taken note of how DDL hasn't really gotten teased for having a derpy contribution level to the game the way Elsa has when my gut likes Elsa more so far.
I really don't know whether Pine is scum, I lean town and I don't know if it's pocketing. I kind of don't hate the wagon in the sense that I think it has information and NaCl wagon does not, I don't know what silly person suggested wagoning Elsa, but that also definitely does not.
NaCl is like the definition of a boring wagon I've kind of gone into it about how I feel about that player.
I think that's all the wagons that have ever been popular

pedit: Pine flipped preferences this year, he's stated as such openly
pedit: I assumed everyone who rolled scum would say "I rolled scum but I'm not going to say who my partners are". I'm pretty sure that's what I would do. None of my partners rolled scum so that didn't give me any data.

I think probably my biggest issue with Pops (personally, not in terms of scumminess) is her progression on myself and Krazy. Specifically, reconciling thinking Krazy is scum and having said multiple times she was mulling my slot over, reconsidering, etc, but never actually doing that at all with vote or otherwise. Dunno. Especially with her teammate supposedly having me as a town read, but that not translating into anything.

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Wut? and I totally agreed with that, does that make me scum too?

(he's not town)

[Eddie Cane]

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

like you guys are looking at this and still thinking krazy is town? seriously?

[Eddie Cane]

I'm very close to BoP voting Krazy, by the way. Just speaking to my team about it.

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

I didn't, and I am serious.

I probably will at some point though.

It's advantageous in the same way that not reading your role PM is advantageous (and therefore not allowed).

I think the only players not reading your role PM is advantageous for is players who are bad. The advantage yea is looking town cause you don't know what you are, but the disadvantage is you can't defend your scum mates and push agendas, so any reasonably skilled player would be disadvantaged by not knowing they're scum.

Theory though. Can you please comment on the game? My town read is slipping because of your lack of activity.

[Eddie Cane]

Ok guys we don't need to spend pages debating theory, this is already the longest game. Which is fine for me but not everybody can keep up.

[Eddie Cane]

Can you please comment on the game? My town read is slipping because of your lack of activity.

What do you want me to talk about? I don't usually comment much unprompted after placing a vote.

Krazy's alignment and my alignment, or anything related to either of us. Especially the former. And quick notes on gamestate thoughts. I am aware you do not vote much and it has more of an impact when you do.

[Eddie Cane]

I didn't, and I am serious.

I probably will at some point though.

It's advantageous in the same way that not reading your role PM is advantageous (and therefore not allowed).

Lul, how is it advantageous for you if you're town? If you don't tell them, won't they just assume you're town? Hilarious if this is a scumslip.

(this post is referring to SS)

I don't really care about the scumslip but I think this is a townie thought from Hectic lmfao

[Eddie Cane]

Your alignment is probably the opposite of pops's.

Krazy's alignment is probably the opposite of yours.

This will be a vastly more productive discussion to have tomorrow, after we know pops's alignment.

I don't think Krazy and Pops have to be partners. Much much more often than not there is one donkey town and one scum, not two scum hard pushing something stupid. The main point to SvS here is Pops and Krazy awkward ass reads on each other, and the weird distancy reads but both coalescing on me.

So, my alignment doesn't have to be opposite to both of them. I would bet 20$ if I could at least one of them is scum. But I need individual analysis, for purposes of sorting you. Why did you choose to vote Pops over me? Why Pops over Krazy? Which of Pops and Krazy do you think is more likely scum? What is your independent read on our 3 slots? These are various prompts, you don't need to answer each one like a separate question, but I think its clear what I'm asking.

[Eddie Cane]

Let me illustrate what's happening. Krazy knows I'm very townie via my teammates, so he's pushing the world that I didn't tell my teammates I'm scum.

@Nancy @auro

you cannot still think he's lock town. i can't believe that.

[Eddie Cane]

Let me illustrate what's happening. Krazy knows I'm very townie via my teammates, so he's pushing the world that I didn't tell my teammates I'm scum.

@Nancy @auro

you cannot still think he's lock town. i can't believe that.

No. Because when I tried to talk to you about my history with ank you tried to poison the well about it. Instead of having a real conversation you tried to downplay my point. All I wanted to do was understand where your read ended and Ank's began and for the entire first thousand pages it was almost impossible to understand how *you* were reading the game

You were actually poisoning the well by saying, and I quote,

Ank being wrong on me isn't new, it's our baseline

Your whole response was to start by handwaving the scumread away as the baseline Ank read.

[Eddie Cane]

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=76031 - This is my second last scum game on site and one I actually care about (as I would care about a hypothetical scum pm in TM), as far as I can remember. In a playerlist much stronger than this one, as well.

viewtopic.php?t=78822&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go - this was last year, as well. Did not play very well, it was a stupid 4 scum mini normal and I memed and hard bussed my partner Boon back and forth day 1, and decided to 1v1 RC for fun.

Does either look similar to here? I think tonally, its pretty black and white. Especially the former, which is the game I actively tried in. But yours to evaluate.

[Eddie Cane]

When you first posted that, she said it was disingenuous. Are you telling me I should consider my teammate is lying? Like what

[Eddie Cane]

And it isn't just Ank. Its also Tom, who is much more active than Ank. And Dann, for whatever a skim popin is worth. And myself now, because I feel everything you've posted in the last ~20 pages has been narrative building and not real thoughts.

[Eddie Cane]

that's not what the word overreaction means

[Eddie Cane]

you said "Ank's baseline is being wrong"
Ank said that is disingenuous

why would I need further questioning on that topic? its cut and dry

[Eddie Cane]

also

I told Tom you are arguing i didn't tell my teammates my role pm
and his reaction was a synonym of LMFAO

[Eddie Cane]

Why is everything a personal attack with you?

[Eddie Cane]

trying to create conflict between me and

people in your team

you guys think this is a real town thought? like actually?

[Eddie Cane]

So are you scum or a colossal fucking asshole?

This is not a personal attack?

[Eddie Cane]

I'd be careful though, last TM a player (who was scum) got banned for constantly personally insulting me (town) for pushing them.

[Eddie Cane]

Calling you scum is not a personal attack

Saying I'm scum or an asshole is a personal attack if I am town. If you are not considering the world I am town, you would not post that. If you are not considering the world where I am town, your entire perspective is inconsistent and more or less a flat our lie. If you are considering the world where I am town, then it is a personal attack.

[Eddie Cane]

In a world where you're town I'd say you owe me a massive apology but in reality I'd probably just block you

Lol bro I don't know why you're so insistent on making this game toxic. Regardless of your alignment. Its just irritating.

[Eddie Cane]

Like sure, you can block me. If you're town, you're a bad player and I don't really care about your existence anyways. If you're mafia, this is gross play and I wouldn't want to play with you again either. But why post stuff like that in game? Why say "you're scum or an asshole"? Why say how shit of a person I'm being constantly when you are the one who keeps insulting me? Its just making the thread space a more negative environment for no reason.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm actually just gonna go AFK for a bit because I think the thread should breathe and I don't think further posting is going to productive, and Krazy is making it a bit unfun to play atm. I'm still reading so ask me if you want something.

[Eddie Cane]

This is a terrible format for a game tbh

Forum mafia? Yea, video is way better. Check out twitch.tv/ryuzilla and look at a vod for example of what video mafia looks like. I'm Josh on there if you find a game with me in it. I do like MS more than MU and most other mafia sites, though.

[Eddie Cane]

Can you watch it with the personal attacks? I really wouldn’t want to see you get temp banned or anything.

I don't plan on reporting anything, don't worry about that aspect. But yea, agree with the sentiment.

[Eddie Cane]

Krazy has requested replacement.

Damn, he was probably town then.

Krazy subbed out under pressure as scum in Alisae vs Pine. I'm sure hes subbed out as town too. It's not AI.

That said, I feel bad regardless and I'm kinda just deflated now. I'm going to actually just log out for a bit.

[Eddie Cane]

Alright, that's enough. I'm going to go back to not posting because we just need some flips and talking more is going to create apathy (100+page). But I am not being the day 1 mislynch.

I would like to ask the 2-5 dumbasses voting me that are town what the fuck they think I'm doing this game if I'm mafia. At first, I was receiving votes despite my teammates contributions. Now, it has gotten to the point they are too townie, and the argument is that I lied to my team and told them I was town? Ignoring how asinine I still find that notion, I think it is an especially shitty notion for me. For one, I have winrate of around 90% as scum on MS, so I am clearly comfortable as the alignment. For two, all 3 of my teammates are good at scum. For three,

if I am scum who lied about my alignment to my team then those are real fucking reads from Tom and Ank and Dann

. The whole crux of this shitty fucking argument is that I am bad enough I would lie for the benefits of getting real reads from my teammates, but those hypothetical real reads

ARE STILL REAL READS IN THAT WORLD

. That means Tom and Ank

ACTUALLY BELIEVE KRAZY AND POPS ARE SCUM

. If you’re wondering why I’ve been so cagey, its because this argument is so fucking asinine that I thought people were actually joking, but now that I am the biggest wagon it is apparent they are not. If you think I’m scum and told my teammates my role pm, then those are “fake” thoughts from Ank and Tom and yet, pretty much everybody town read those thoughts independently before this whole nonsense so the argument doesn’t fly. And, it means you can ask sorting questions; for example, when asked for reasons Tom and Ank thought Krazy was scum, you got #2101. In that specific example, Ank was offline and most of you had her on discord, and I answered very quickly, so basically you have to argue I am scum who preobtained reasons from Ank about why Krazy is scum in that detail. Not to mention, if I am scum, you have to think I took the much harder path to victory of pushing Krazy and Pops as scum rather than coalesce with the masses, especially when the hypothetical town!Krazy was simply trying to engage with me and had me as town. Like. This is actually just nonsense. I don’t give a fuck about Elsa but I am stunned whoever’s town in Piss, Krazy, and Pops can actually believe this garbage ass world. Its fucking surreal.

As for gamestate. Let’s look at the two biggest wagons.
popsofctown (4) - Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane
Eddie Cane (5) - popsofctown, unwnd, pisskop, Elsa Jay, [Titus]

I don’t even see a person on the Pops wagon who I think could be scum. Amrun is very townie from Skitter, I believe her reads, and the rest of his posting all reads genuine. SS was very townie early on, #1555 ++town, though his lack of activity lately is annoying. I haven’t played with his scum game ever iirc, but this feels similar to the town game I remember as well. Bob was a nullish slot for a while and maybe slight scum lean until #1966. If you take me as not S/S with bob, 1966 is just unnecessary burying, very in depth, and it is not immediately partnered with a vote (and this is extrapolating but to me it reads as waiting for a response from Pops / consideration) - came a day later. I don’t see why a scum!bob from my POV does a post like that when its just not needed, and it did not sound fake.


Look at my wagon. Piss is the towniest slot there according to thread reads I think, though I have him as more null and think people aren’t crediting his scum game + his play is super easy to fake. Titus’ comments from Math feel townie iirc, and her reads have aligned with mine mostly this game (and her vote on me is particularly perplexing). Elsa is a nonfactor. Unwnd and Pops are both scummy as all hell, were both pushed on by me first, and have awkward as fuck progression on each other.

So I see the Pops wagon as very likely 4 town, which makes it all the more likely to be scum. The scummiest slot that was voting it, Elsa, is now voting me. Don’t care about my reads? Two pools:

{Amrun, SS, bob}

and

{Unwnd, Piss, Elsa, Titus}

. Which of those do you think is more likely to contain scum. Think bussing is involved? I don’t think you can ever argue I’m with Unwnd, I talked down to Elsa, Titus has actually no reason (including WIFOM even) to vote me as a partner when we’ve aligned in reads already and she had already voted Pops without catching flack, and I guess Piss but I’d argue how he spoke about me after Krazy’s vote is not ever partners.

There is the world where Pops and I are TvT. I don’t think its particularly likely, but its a world. In that world, Krazy is always scum I believe. I don’t think I am 1v1ing 2 town this hard and the thread is this calm. But this is a separate discussion because if you believe in this world then you believe I’m town anyways.

[Eddie Cane]

Why are you focusing on defending yourself on that aspect, Eddie?

What aspect should I be defending? Those are the only reasons I've seen given. Pops was the only vote on me until Krazy.

-snip-

its actually uh, 3/11 I think which is ~.27%.

They've essentially ghosted me haha

I think this game is actually very content-rich and solvable. I see you unvoted me, why? Have you worked on catching up yet?

[Eddie Cane]

What aspect should I be defending? Those are the only reasons I've seen given. Pops was the only vote on me until Krazy.

Oh yeah, Krazy and Pops probably being town makes you worse due to their scumreads on you

I called both of them scum first, so I don't see how that logic follows. Krazy called me more town than not for like, a long time, as well.

But stepping back from that for a sec, I strongly disagree with the premise that Krazy and Pops are probably town. I am closer to believing there is 1 town in there than not, now. Pops wagon, to me, is 5 very townie slots at this point. Its possible that I'm wrong, or its even possible it is 5 town voting on town. But I'm evaluating likelyhoods. My read on you is still more town than not but your progression is confusing me, and I don't really agree at all with your Titus scum read specifically.

Here, for purposes of discussion I will look in a world with Pops and Krazy and Eddie all town. This is just off the top of my head now. I'm, like, actually just straight up lost at who scum is. I can't build a world of 3 there. DDL is pushing outside of lynching us which doesn't make sense if he's not scum with one of us. If we are TvT, why does Nancy hard town read me while still arguing with me about my Pops

and

Krazy scum reads? I think those two are basically cleared in a world {Eddie, Pops, Krazy} are town. Oka pushed to kill DDL and Pine though, like, a lot, so he's less clear than Nancy and DDL but still very probably town. Same probably goes for Hectic, though lighter than Oka. So I need 3 of Elsa, Titus, SS, Pine, Piss, Bob, Amrun, Nacl to be the team I guess? Ignoring players who have had clear not-partner interactions in that group. I guess I could construct some teams that work, but they all feel pretty reachy, especially since I have independent town reads on a lot of them. It just doesn't seem like a likely world.

I initially liked pops for her earlier play because it didn't feel like it was scum-her and I think I actually know how she is as scum, unlike most people here. But the vote on Eddie feels like a reach.

I would like to hear your read on Pops now, please.

As a sidenote, while writing this post I iso'd NaCl and he looks pretty fucking town.

[Eddie Cane]

I wish, dude. I've been asking for that for 20 pages.

[Eddie Cane]

"Consistent reads" are not even a town tell...

[Eddie Cane]

Pops Piss Pine would be a wild solve

[Eddie Cane]

I for one am relieved Pine is town. I had him as a town lean, but I would've felt like a dingus if I screamed down his wagon to kill Pops when they were both scum.

[Eddie Cane]

So! Plan for today.

I am going to try and make as big of a town core as I can. Then, pushes for the day. I don't think it'll have half the names Piss' did, so there's that.

[Eddie Cane]

The first thing of note is, scum made a mechanical error. The right play is always to shoot at me last night. Worst case, doc lands a save, its confirmed they can kill me tomorrow and evens are worse for town

anyways

. And, most good docs would

not

have even been on me in the first place last night, since scum would always shoot outside that, circular logic but yea. So now, the doc is going to be on me tonight, and scum can't know if they saved me last night so it will be a lot more punishing if they land a save. I assume they probably thought Pine was the doc, since Tom did. Bonafide medic dodge should've been on bob/SS/Amrun/Titus which means

maybe

there's a deepwolf there? But I doubt it. I'll see in my dive.

And the second thing of note is, scum can bus. There is no investigative. Do not auto clear somebody for pushing scum, look at how they pushed and how the scum reacted.

[Eddie Cane]

popsofctown

I don't

think

this post sounds remotely partnery on partner? Then bob parked on Pops for the rest of the day. But rather than try to get a ton of credit, he had offhand comments like #2534 saying we might be TvT, etc. And it didn't feel like trying to vocally push a TvT world to change the vote either. Dunno. Bob just seems town.

[Eddie Cane]

I think SS is just town as well. Good interactions about Pops, and again, didn't feel pockety/bussy.

The Titus ISO is more interesting. I don't see much scum motivation in vote hopping between me/Pops like that, I think it just makes her look worse to me and to the thread, and then hopping back after 1 post. And she had Pops as scum pretty consistently. I'd recommend reading this one but I think still town.

[Eddie Cane]

My team still finds some things weird about Nancy, but I'm comfortable townbinning. She didn't even really push Pops hard, but she fought like every vote on me loudly. If your partner is in a 1v1, it seems straight up unintuitive to vocally and violently shout down any semblance of a wagon on the person they're fighting. Seems like a whack play.

I'm just gonna assume Amrun isn't with Pops for the sake of my ego and sanity.

[Eddie Cane]

{amrun, bob, eddie, nancy, ss, titus}

If those 5 are right, and we can find one more town, then its actually just auto. The rest of these reads are without iso'ing, just from memory.

{NaCl}
{Hectic}
{DDL, Elsa, Oka, pisskop, unwnd}

[Eddie Cane]

I don't think it counts as hubris when I was right.

But that's a mechanical statement, not a because-its-me statement. You shoot the confirmed. Rolecop narrows down the doc if there's a save.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm going to be lurking for probably a few irl days because I dont think strong arming will get the best results, but I should note this: my vote on Krazy was more gauging reactions, I always intended to switch to Pops. I'll copy reasons why from my team PT in post game or if they become relevant. I am not at auto kill unwnd.

[Eddie Cane]

Not a town read. Not lock scum. But I dont think its beneficial for me to guide the thread right now, when I'm not super confident in my next kill.

[Eddie Cane]

Votecount 1.24

popsofctown (5) -

Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, Titus

Eddie Cane (4) -

popsofctown, Krazy, pisskop, OkaPoka

Pine (2) -

Hectic, Nancy Drew 39

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

If Titus, Oka, Piss, Krazy are all town, what exactly was Pops scum partner doing while I was fighting her and the counterwagon? Bussing? Lurking? Food for thought, because I had 5 votes against her 5 at one point.

[Eddie Cane]

Anyone down for hood claims now? We're talking about PoE soooo

I am not inherently against it. I've been mulling over whether it is worth outing the doc.

[Eddie Cane]

You're a good mod

[Eddie Cane]

Oh fuck, feeling betrayed then

[Eddie Cane]

Scum have a rolecop. They know two hoods, plus the claimed ones, plus their rolecop target. Doc only actually matters if they get two saves, one save puts us at evens which sucks. And the odds doc lives undetected long enough to get two saves is very very low, even if they can get one on me tonight.

[Eddie Cane]

Alright, discussed with my team. I think unclaimed hoods should out.

[Eddie Cane]

Doc getting 2 saves is very unlikely.

Doc getting 1 save does not help.

Doc outing gives a second IC to discuss with today, and it lets us see all the hoods to eliminate possible teams.

[Eddie Cane]

Perhaps, but the rolecop existing limits the viability of that. I am not on the "Pine was a bad kill" train, he was a top TR for both of my teammates and he can project town as town. There's arguments for claiming and against claiming which is why I'm not demanding it, my opinion is just that there is increased utility. Especially because Piss or Unwnd being confirmed town would really help my solving abilities today, for example. The counter to that point is it would suck if Amrun was doc.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm not super confident no. I've been mulling it for, since night time pretty much.

[Eddie Cane]

I’m kinda digging it. I have a neighbor read I’ve been avoiding sharing.

I’m hesitant because it could backfire... but we are in a good position, and from my POV, the pool is very narrow. Narrowing it further basically locks this game up.

This is kinda the benefit

a) we now know the towniest slot in the pool of unclaimeds is not doc lol...
b) we can probably just solve this today? that day 1 scum lynch was not driven by scum, because it was by me who is confirmed town, so we know it wasn't a super hard bus. and the second hardest pusher, amrun, is also not reading like bus.


There are drawbacks... my vote is still to out. But vote as a player, not as an IC demanding it.

[Eddie Cane]

Ya'll might as well out now since the second strongest advocate of killing Pops outed

[Eddie Cane]

not SS

[Eddie Cane]

I guess I'll out this now

my team has been vetting TRs, and the 3 we all agree on so far are {Amrun, Titus, SS}

[Eddie Cane]

YO DOES ANK FINALLY SCUMREAD ME

So far we have only discussed the aforementioned 3. I still don't want to really control this thread, I want to see where people push, and none of us have a confident scum read atm.

PEdit: THANK FUCK

[Eddie Cane]

@DDL, when you're around, you really not feeling good on SS? I dunno. I know he's good at scum, but I feel really good about him being town, so does Tom, and Ank/Dann did not want to give opinions.

[Eddie Cane]

okay so who has been buddied in their pt

You know, Pops posting in the PT actually felt way better than in thread. I had to sit back and remember that PTs are much,

much

easier for scum to appear townie in.

[Eddie Cane]

titus - hectic
okapoka - unwnd

pine

- bob
nancy - elsa
amrun - nacl


So, there's 2 scum in these pairings. Unfortunate there's no like Elsa Unwnd hood to nuke.

[Eddie Cane]

Elsa and a little NaCl, please amp up that effort. It is hard to townbin you with your amount of content.

Oka, could I get a full reads list from you please?

[Eddie Cane]

Amrun < Piss

wild

[Eddie Cane]

In a world where you're town I'd say you owe me a massive apology but in reality I'd probably just block you

@Eddie, does your team think scum!Krazy makes this sort of post?

I was intentionally playing obtusely day 1 because I did not want to get killed at night. I can see I went too far with it most likely with Krazy, which made me kinda feel like shit.

But you are aware he can be scum and feel that way, right? He can be genuinely upset with my play as both alignments. Some players who don't enjoy scum can actually get agitated more easily, because they're already pissed at their alignment. Not sure if that applies to Krazy.

Tom told me unwnd is an easy read so I'm waiting for him. Pops was my scum read and Krazy was my teams.

[Eddie Cane]

titus > hectic
okapoka > unwind
pine > bob
nancy > elsa
amrun > piss
naCl > SvS


I have a new game. 4 of these 6 pairings have only town. Pick two that you think contain only town.

[Eddie Cane]

Games are fun

[Eddie Cane]

Okay well the actual game I want to see is tiered reads lists from everyone, could I get one please piss? I consider you a good player, which is why some of your play concerns me. And Amrun's reasons for town reading you are fair, but i think apply less because of your experience.

[Eddie Cane]

naCl > SvS

I honestly dont get your beef with ss

Oh I copied that from Nancy, I think SS is like lock town...

[Eddie Cane]

@bob did pine post anything overnight?

[Eddie Cane]

Does anyone really think pisskop is town?

About as close to no as possible

[Eddie Cane]

Pretty close but feels way too easy

[Eddie Cane]

Bad voting / pushes d1

Sounding tonally good is completely null for your playstyle

Even today your town circle and mine are completely different and that doesnt have to be scummy but it means we are reading the game diff

Bad pops interactions

[Eddie Cane]

I'm pressuring with my votes

Your vote on me was not for pressure, are you going to argue that? You found a reason I did not like to vote me, and when my wagon died you moved your vote to somebody else I town read and whom you've barely talked about today if at all (NaCl).

[Eddie Cane]

Poorly? I put out a wall to project town, and the wagon on me died. I do that as both alignments.

[Eddie Cane]

Like what happened to your NaCl vote? Etc.

I can see 1 scum and 3 town in {Oka, Titus, Piss, Unwnd}, but I'm clearing Titus, you said Oka is lock town, and you also have unwnd in your town bin. That seems like an inconsistent perspective to me. If I'm hard tunnelling scum, and arguably the person strongest defending town!pine, I dont see it likely 4 town would join scum's push on me and the partners would not help momentum.

[Eddie Cane]

im not looking to argue about something like meta.

the nk was shite and we all know it. if you really think I'm q good you'd know i plan my nks out very well, bus hard instead of flipflop, and sound most reasonable when scum

Woah let's not get carried away

Pine might have been a doc read. It might be because Pops was hard bussed. It might he to cause paranoia. It might be because of something he said to scum!bob, about his partner or whatever. Might be fear of his reads. Who knows. I do NKA, but in situations like this where we are up it seems fruitless. The Pine kill is not wild to me, he was on the town side of things already.

You didnt do anything hard this game. And I think you do sound reasonable? You were generally town read day 1.

[Eddie Cane]

egocentric babbling

If you're going to be a dick I'm going to just vote you. Lol. It's not egocentric, its wagonomics that remains true regardless of who I am. You did this shit about the night kill too.


You asked what you did that I think was scummy. I'm engaging in good faith discussion. If you arent looking to argue, why even ask?

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Pisskop

[Eddie Cane]

If counterwagon to scum

Scum equity for voters +++

5 voters to look at

1 dead scum

2 very town

=2 people with higher scum equity than rand



Is that better?

[Eddie Cane]

In role call and project arch, you seem like less of a prick. Perhaps it's purely disdain for me, I didnt see a scum game and your egosearch has a lot of not-games.

[Eddie Cane]

glad to have actual useful spec

Yea, pointing out two slots that are probably town is useful spec.

[Eddie Cane]

[

My team has basically cleared Nancy as town, specifically Dann, and I largely agree.

Do you think NaCl is scummy for not voting? That is the read I'm more open to being wrong on.

[Eddie Cane]

viewtopic.php?t=81126&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is conveniently a game NaCl was scum with Pops, if anybody wants to compare.

[Eddie Cane]

Hmm... NaCl might not be town. Lol

[Eddie Cane]

you're right eddie, I'm a little irritated over irl rn

when i get off the phone ill try again.

fwiw i see why you're considered a great player

It's okay I can be arrogant and a dick, and I played d1 scummy so I wouldnt get nkd so if you're town misreading me was fine.

Calling me RC is like a trigger word tho

[Eddie Cane]

Nancy I need a reads list from you still

[Eddie Cane]

@SS @Bob @Elsa I believe you're who I still need reads lists from

[Eddie Cane]

I

really

hope unwnd is scum.

[Eddie Cane]

Elsa, could I get a reads list please?

[Eddie Cane]

I'm not going to defend your lynch if you arent going to put in a modicum of effort. This is 11v2 when we can kill a slot that, yes, is useless.

My team told me you like scum better and are usually useless as town. can you try more if you're town? Please? Have you actually read the game?

[Eddie Cane]

Firstly:
I do not think Titus should ever be lynched this game. I will not be alive in a hypothetical lategame if it gets to that point, so it won't be my decision, but I firmly believe she is town. Lots of the votes on Pops could be bussing, but I really do not think Titus' is.

Titus: I also very much do not think Nancy is scum. She has done some scummy things, but I believe the townie things far outweigh that, and I believe she's out of her scum range as well. This read is backed strongly by Dann. Again, it is not going to be my decision if this game reaches f7 or f5 or f3, but I will say I hard veto her lynch today. Can you please try and evaluate worlds as if she is town? I think it would be far more productive for you two to work together


Secondly:

Not much of it.

And I am more interested in proving my town game. I just forget I'm shit at opens where setup and mechanical spec is the most useful instead of true hard reads.

This game lost interest to me the second we actually lynched scum day 1 and you guys can do the solve strategy. I was hoping Pops was town and I hammered so I could get scumread and give myself motivation to try-hard and save myself, and find scum in the process.

Instead I guess I'll just see what happens and just gently tell Oka to get ready and search your other scum reads as hard as you did me.

Look at it this way. There is no real consensus scum right now. Prove your town game by finding the partner to Pops, or just finding scum independently. You want to talk from a TM perspective? In postgame, we are all going to be rating each other's usefulness or skill or whatever it was. If you are mafia or if you are town, it does not benefit you to get lynched having done very little. You owe it to your team mafia team and your in game team to put in more effort, regardless of your alignment. Get help from FF or Dave or Gamma? This is probably the highest or second highest quality TM game, I'm sure they wouldn't hate skimming it. I know Dave and Gamma are busy but I believe FF has time dedicate. This is a team game.

[Eddie Cane]

And, specifically in this setup, mechanics don't even really matter anymore. There are two hoods in 6 that have 1 scum, and an IC somewhere. Other than that, its effectively an all VT game. You can read it like mountainous.

[Eddie Cane]

Anyways,

UNVOTE:

I don't know exactly who I want to kill today yet. If DDL has a strong opinion I'll sheep him. Still mulling.

[Eddie Cane]

I also never voted scum!RC in Gameshow

flashbacks D:


Nancy, can you talk through what happens if your Piss Unwnd solve is wrong? Those are like two of the independently scummy slots, sure, no argument, but all 3 scum piling on me like that in the way they did and just being this obviously aligned is... very rare. I do not think its actually the solve, even though its a prominent one. And, following that, one or two of them could be town. I don't think wasting time talking to Titus is going to be productive.

[Eddie Cane]

@Piss and @ anybody else who has unwnd as townish

Can you please explain why?

[Eddie Cane]

what is woat btw

worst of all time but I am legit pissed at Titus for completely ignoring D1. It’s so so fucking insulting.

<<--- I hate D1. You know this? Like I don't even read on subbing in.

Also, how am I ignoring D1 when it's the only thing I can base my VCA on?

Girls... ladies... guys... all sound awkward help

Can

ya'll

please not? You are both just town. This is not helpful. Please focus elsewhere until I'm not in the game.

[Eddie Cane]

Maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before. I'm sure I'll be wrong again.

Now, ignoring that preface, few good reasons Nancy is town.
1) One of my teammates has a 100% scum tell on her. She has not done it in 3 ISO pages.
2) She was not on Pops for much of the day, true, and called us TvT. But she consistently had me as hard town, and specifically shouted at every single vote that happened on me. It wasn't just buddying, it was directly anti-wincon if she's partners with Pops, when she isn't even trying to get bus cred.
3) I have played with Nancy few times, but I don't think I've ever been wrong on her either and I think she's lock town. I have hard defended town!her before who was close to getting lynched, and called out town!her on having bad reads.
4) I... think this is just out of her scum range. Full stop. She showed good analysis several times yesterday, I think most of it is page 2 of her iso.

Please focus elsewhere.

[Eddie Cane]

Pisskop, why is a compromise wagon bad?

If there’s anyone’s read on Nancy I think is BoPable, it’s Dannflor, IMO. For now I’m choosing to trust it but Nancy is in my PoE as explained prior.

Anyways,

UNVOTE:

I don't know exactly who I want to kill today yet. If DDL has a strong opinion I'll sheep him. Still mulling.

DDL wants to kill S S. Please dont

It's a conditional sheep. Lol.

You are going to have to sell me on Bob.

It isn't just Dann's reads. Tom and myself agree. Ank I think did as well. But, I'm (probably) dying before you since I'm confirmed town, so it'll be your call too.

[Eddie Cane]

So I'll put it this way

my top 2 kills, right now, are Piss and Unwnd

I find it bizzarre both openly have such awful associations, :shrug:

@Amrun, then sell me on NaCl lol I don't think he's scummy either though this is kinda similar to that game I linked he's with pops in

[Eddie Cane]

that's a good point

[Eddie Cane]

if i claimed PO to explain my day 1 intentional scumminess, baiting votes, and faked drunkenness to make an excuse to out that i'm in a hood, in order to reduce my NK equity...

would you believe me?

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: unwnd

[Eddie Cane]

I dont intend to hammer but I also won't be upset if somebody does.

[Eddie Cane]

LOL

[Eddie Cane]

viewtopic.php?t=81126&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

This is conveniently a game NaCl was scum with Pops, if anybody wants to compare.

[Eddie Cane]

Titus, I know you're older and more educated than a lot of people here. You have to understand that your sample size is statistically insignificant, right? And,

even if you proved it happened less than rand, it is still one minor point

. Before DDL outed, your neighbor was statistically more likely to be scum than anybody else, that doesn't mean you auto kill them. Rule of 3 is similarly a light tell, and Pops is a good player.

Can we discuss something else?

[Eddie Cane]

I think a more useful stat is how often scum's first vote (in RVS) is on a partner. I don't think the second vote actually really matters.

[Eddie Cane]

So uh, I'm going to change the topic of the thread.

Re: Elsa

Elsa Jay (4) - unwnd, Hectic, OkaPoka, pisskop

1) This wagon is close to the bottom half of my reads list.
2) Ank is TRing Elsa
3) After a cursory meta skim, this is

slightly

more in line with Elsa's town game I think? The word "useless" still comes to mind though.

I don't really care if she dies unless her content increases, so I won't block the lynch. But I do not intend to vote her.


Re: Piss

pisskop (6) - DrDolittle, bob3141, NaCl, Titus, Nancy Drew 39, Elsa Jay

Its an interesting gamestate, right? 'Cause if Pops was bsused, the most likely scum are probably in the subset of {bob, NaCl, SS} and two of those are voting. I guess? But my read of the game is not that, and I think independently SS is moderately townie. If NaCl was trying to bus, he had opportunity to vote earlier when Pops looked like she wasn't dying, and instead chose to take my side in the argument in a nondescript way. He could be wolf. Bob burying Pops felt townie to me. Maybe I'm wrong and he's wolf. But that is not how I am reading the game.

Piss has pretty bad Pops associations imo. I am personally looking for a scum on the Eddie wagon and see Piss as an option. Tonally, he has had some good posts. His strongest champion is Unwnd, who I am scum reading. I would not be shocked if he was town, and I would not be shocked if he was scum. The wagon on him is T, t, t, T, T, N, which is pretty solid. But with the amount of scum alive, its actually literally not that unreasonably likely for an all town group of 6 to be on a town anyways so meh. Dunno. I do not town read his play much, and I am okay with him dying. Probably my second or third kill. I see townie enough elements that he is not my first vote, though.


Re: Unwnd

unwnd (3) - Amrun, Eddie Cane, Something_Smart

Krazy's play feels like bad case -> AtE -> Tilt -> replace out. This is pretty much a mirror of Alisae v Pine as scum. He did the same thing in Gay Dance as scum. That said, he also did the same thing in Merchant's Daughter as town. I believe he was genuinely upset as either alignment. Krazy is a player who dislikes scum, and when you roll scum and hate being scum, everything agitates you more. Your subconscious almost looks for a way to get out, is my theory. Its part of the reason replace outs are more likely to come from scum in general. Townreading him for replacing out is dumb.

Aside from the AtE, his interactions with Pops are super awkward. She scum reads him, but only pushes me, naked votes him randomly, and never considers going back to his wagon. They also never really engage past the surface level. It could be spew, but I don't think it is. I asked my team to all name 1 name without thinking of their top kill today, and all 3 of Tom Ank Dann said "unwnd". Unwnd's iso isn't really bad, its just also... not really anything. It is about as exciting as white bread.

Part of the thing about this gamestate is there are 5 towns to every scum from any townie's point of view. The odds of hitting scum today are very low, and I would not be insanely surprised if unwnd, piss, and hell even elsa all flipped town. But that's normal, and part of being town. There's a lot of town, and not a lot of scum. I asked everybody for reads lists, and Unwnd was in the bottom of the most people. So another factor for why I want to kill him is, infamously, the

information lynch

. Mechanically speaking, killing Elsa might be strictly the best information lynch because she fits in the most worlds and it narrows down the game for later on. But combining information and scumminess, unwnd is where I want to go.

Feel free to ignore me! There's another IC, and he is voting a wagon I support. My top kill is unwnd, I think the best kill is unwnd, and I could very well be wrong. We are at 150 pages, we don't need to waste more of them talking about statistical nonsense that would fit much better in an MD thread.

[Eddie Cane]

Hectic is an interesting person to read, and has a lot of posts. There was a point day 1 I thought him and Pops were never SvS, because of how blatantly they were hard aligning. Now, looking back, they were... hard aligning, lol, and those terrible associations are really hard to ignore. If Hectic is town, its a great example of why tying yourself to a townie is a good play - because they always die. And if Hectic is scum, then my posting is an example of why hard aligning is a good play - because scum rarely do it. Dunno.

[Eddie Cane]

You can start a NaCl wagon! In his scum game with Pops that I linked, there was a decent amount of theater and I saw his scum game was actually pretty good.

I still don't think I'm moving my vote from unwnd, though.

[Eddie Cane]

Fwiw, Dann just chimed in on Discord and said he town reads Elsa as well.

[Eddie Cane]

You think unwnd is town?

[Eddie Cane]

Can you case that please?

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: Pops

@Eddie, I am just apathetic and exhausted IRL.

VOTE: unvote

He unvoted 4 posts after you (momentum stopping) and when he was the new third competing wagon (making it Eddie v Pops v unwnd). At the point Pops and Unwnd are competing wagons, its pretty clear I am now viewed as townie; I was very evidently not aligned with either of them. So I don't think its overtly townie to unvote at that point and more null, because its pretty clear I'm not dying.

To be clear, I still have you as hard town and I don't think you're with unwnd. I just don't agree.

[Eddie Cane]

I don't think so? What precludes him from being with Piss, Bob, Hectic?

[Eddie Cane]

I don't think that's true day 1. For similar reasons that scum don't often put their partner in the top row of their reads list. Theory debate, though.

[Eddie Cane]

Votecount 1.21

popsofctown (5) -

Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, pisskop, Elsa Jay

Pine (3) -

Hectic, Krazy, Nancy Drew 39

NaCl (2) -

Pine, Titus

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

DrDolittle (1) -

OkaPoka

Eddie Cane (1) -

popsofctown

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

If you're looking at this in a vaccum, Krazy NaCl and bob would work. Yet that's too many scum. NaCl bob could be a thing.

Pops Krazy + someone in SS Piss Elsa = standard distancing
Pops Krazy + NaCl yes works
Pops Krazy + bob = three scum pushing different angles, also pretty common

like just reading off of one vote count is not something I support.

Votecount 1.22

popsofctown (5) -

Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, Titus

Eddie Cane (4) -

popsofctown, Krazy, pisskop, OkaPoka

Pine (2) -

Hectic, Nancy Drew 39

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Here would be a scum overload.

In the world where Krazy and Pops are both scum, I am clearly a massive threat to the scum team, so overloading on me is fine. Although like I said, I don't believe its likely that Krazy Piss Pops is the solve.

[Eddie Cane]

I really think you just have the mentality of falling on your own sword when it comes to this Krazy read

Wdym?

[Eddie Cane]

I really think you just have the mentality of falling on your own sword when it comes to this Krazy read

Wdym?

You're OK with being wrong to absolve any guilt you had towards Krazy. I understand your disposition, but that still doesn't detract from it well, being a wrong read

I think Krazy acted childish and made the game personal when it was unnecessary. I am okay being wrong on your slot, absolutely. But I have 3 voices in my head saying kill unwnd, and I independently scum lean your slot. You think its wrong to vote you given that? The smoking gun for Pops was her overreaction to me outing the hood, which I did specifically to out her as scum to people. I think its very possible Krazy is similar.

[Eddie Cane]

Oh my god early Nancy was so scummy D: D:

[Eddie Cane]

S_S feels off to me. He seems like he's mimicking his town meta instead of playing his town met because Oka's case seems like the last one is expect him to give the Socratic treatment

this feels like a weird line to say about a buddy

[Eddie Cane]

There are arguments for Titus, S_S, pops, Nancy, and piss for town

The rest of this post is okay on the surface. However, why is Pops listed in the town reads? This is Krazy's 38th post and his first mention of Pops at all, and previously Pops was shading him.

[Eddie Cane]

page #22

Titus is just IC. Lol.

I don't think on this page SS-Pops feels remotely like theater.

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler: raw possible teams

Titus - SS
Titus - Elsa
Titus - Oka
Titus - Nancy
Titus - unwnd
Titus - Piss
Titus - Amrun
Titus - NaCl
Titus - Bob
SS - Elsa
SS - Oka
SS - Nancy
SS - unwnd
SS - Hectic
SS - Piss
SS - Amrun
SS - Bob
Elsa - Oka
Elsa - unwnd
Elsa - Hectic
Elsa - Piss
Elsa - Amrun
Elsa - NaCl
Elsa - bob
Oka - Nancy
Oka - Hectic
Oka - Piss
Oka - Amrun
Oka - NaCl
Oka - Bob
Nancy - unwnd
Nancy - Hectic
Nancy - Piss
Nancy - Amrun
Nancy - NaCl
Nancy - Bob
Unwnd - Hectic
Unwnd - Piss
Unwnd - Amrun
Unwnd - NaCl
Unwnd - Bob
Hectic - Piss
Hectic - Amrun
Hectic - NaCl
Hectic - Bob
Pisskop - NaCl
Pisskop - Bob
Amrun - NaCl
Amrun - Bob
NaCl - Bob

Spoiler: Teams I am currently considering

SS - Elsa
SS - Oka
SS - unwnd
SS - Hectic
SS - Piss
Elsa - unwnd
Elsa - Piss
Elsa - NaCl
Elsa - bob
Oka - Hectic
Oka - Piss
Oka - NaCl
Oka - Bob
Unwnd - Hectic
Unwnd - Piss
Unwnd - NaCl
Unwnd - Bob
Hectic - NaCl
Hectic - Bob
Pisskop - NaCl
Pisskop - Bob
NaCl - Bob

I am only part way done rereading, so more teams will probably be removed from the list. In terms of my super strong town, I'm 99% on Titus town, 94% on Amrun, and 92% on Nancy. So they are just not on the list period. Independently though, rereading I am feeling better about Hectic and SS town I think.

[Eddie Cane]

Nah

[Eddie Cane]

To who?

[Eddie Cane]

This is my most recent towngame: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81537

If you had linked this game I would have locked you as town

[Eddie Cane]

This is my most recent towngame: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=81537

If you had linked this game I would have locked you as town

Are you townlocking NaCl?

Nah. My lock town are Amrun, Titus, Nancy. My strong town are SS, Hectic, though both have been worse today. Past that I'm pretty amenable. But I do think you are being a bit of a dick to Titus.

[Eddie Cane]

I love u, u just had a good scum game the only time we've played. You're in the I dont have to deal with because I'll be dead by the time people discuss you pile

[Eddie Cane]

Can ya'll please not? You are both just town. This is not helpful. Please focus elsewhere until I'm not in the game.

[Eddie Cane]

Basically, that. My votes today are Unwnd > Piss

[Eddie Cane]

Nancy, just take a breather if you have to. It's just a game, don't let it hurt your health.

[Eddie Cane]

It's your last day alive, so other than your will I'm ready for night.

[Eddie Cane]

jesus their are massive twigs up this playerlists collective ass

i wonder if a massive twig would be more painful than several smaller twigs

[Eddie Cane]

I wanted to say to keep Oka's town read. His play as scum in that Mini normal with Eddie only on surface is similar to this. But overall Oka's play on that Mini was very agreeable, or at least was doing his own thing (i.e. composing a book ft why varsoon was scum), whereas here he got into fights with and is generally irritable.

I am a bit nervous about bob. In generally I was not pinged either way, but that's similar to the mini normal with amrun. I think Titus?'s spec on mafia killing pine precisely because Bob is not scum is correct, but there is a little bit of WIFOM pushing the other way.

On elsa, my team thinks she's scum because she's not interested in solving. I still think the slot can be town, but I've never played w/ her afaik. Nancy's still town, and I'm willing to listen to Nancy in the short run for vouching for Elsa.

I wonder if the solve is just as simple as (unwnd, pisskop). I highly doubt it, but I strongly believe that there is scum in one of these.

I agree with all 3 of these posts.

[Eddie Cane]

I have nothing left to say. Probably respectful to let Unwnd give a final will?

[Eddie Cane]

1st of all, knowing Pine is town, Krazy is scum, and Pops is scum, my day 1 ISO is pretty close to a perfect game. Damn. Haha. DDL, if you landed a save on me, good fucking play not saving me night 1. If its on Oka, neat. If its on a random other person lmfao good job.

Yes, I will hard claim PO now that there is one scum left. No point not doing it. I was trying to play scummy enough day 1 that I would not get night killed, but also trying very hard to control the game in a serviceable direction because I disagreed with all of the wagons at the time... it was rough. I hate rolling PRs. Despise it. But... I think we just win now most likely.

[Eddie Cane]

Hard clearing Eddie, DDL, Oka, Titus, SS, Amrun, and Nancy

Eddie, DDL, Oka mod confirmed town. Titus is not scum, full stop. SS and Amrun are just, I reread a bunch of day 1 in the night, I do not think they sounded like they were bussing at all, would not touch them this game ever. Particularly knowing Krazy is scum. Nancy... hard town read both Pops and Krazy, but I'm still pretty sure she's just lock town. If you accept Nancy as town, this game is auto.

Leaves Elsa, Hectic, Piss, NaCl, bob

At the start of night, I had a kill order of Elsa / Piss > bob > NaCl > Hectic. After rereading, I think I now have Elsa / Piss / Hectic > Bob / NaCl. I don't actually really care on the order, because I think its auto, but still okay to double check.

[Eddie Cane]

viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74684
Last TM, we killed scum d1 and d2, and then d3 Ginngie faked a guilty on a townie so we did not have a perfect game. Shall we break that record?

Elsa: Ank thinks this is her town game.
Piss: Dann thinks Piss is not with Pops (d1 read). Ank thinks Piss is town.
Hectic: has some super partnery posts, also has some super not partnery posts.
Bob: buried his partner, still robotic, if there's a bus vote probably here maybe??
NaCl: Just seems... town. Has not posted a lot, another potential light busser to look at.

Does anybody in these 5 have a great argument for why they're town?

[Eddie Cane]

Who do you think is scum if we kill Piss and the game doesn't end?

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler: Votewall

Votecount 1.27

popsofctown (5) -

Eddie Cane, Amrun, Something_Smart, Elsa Jay, bob3141

Eddie Cane (3) -

popsofctown, Krazy, pisskop

Pine (3) -

Hectic, OkaPoka, Nancy Drew 39

DrDolittle (1) -

Titus

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Prodding NaCl.

Krazy has requested replacement.

unwnd replaces Krazy on team Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn.

Votecount 1.28

popsofctown (4) -

Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane

Eddie Cane (4) -

popsofctown, unwnd, pisskop, Elsa Jay

Pine (3) -

Hectic, OkaPoka, Nancy Drew 39

DrDolittle (1) -

Titus

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Votecount 1.29

popsofctown (4) -

Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane

Eddie Cane (4) -

popsofctown, unwnd, pisskop, Elsa Jay

Pine (3) -

Hectic, OkaPoka, Nancy Drew 39

DrDolittle (1) -

Titus

NaCl (1) -

Pine

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Not Voting (1) -

NaCl

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

Votecount 1.30

popsofctown (5) -

Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane, Titus

Eddie Cane (2) -

popsofctown, Elsa Jay

unwnd (2) -

OkaPoka, DrDolittle

NaCl (2) -

Pine, pisskop

Pine (1) -

Hectic

Not Voting (3) -

NaCl, unwnd, Nancy Drew 39

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

I really think this was the pivotal moment of things, and Elsa definitely looks the worst from all of it. I don't have another wall about it's just like, Elsa seemed set on Eddie until things starting to turn.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

So here's the thing with Elsa: unwnd spent most of yesterday trying to kill her. But after this post, he barely addresses her existence. If that's a bus on a partner, I think I'd expect more bravado? Because this push doesn't do enough to get her town pooled on his lynch, so she probably doesn't endgame. And it probably doesn't take him out of the PoE either on an Elsa lynch. Dunno. Its the type of push that actually would look partnery on d1, but on d2 with a dead scum and a narrow PoE... eh?

[Eddie Cane]

Where does your confidence on SS stem from, Eddie? I didn't reread much during the night, but nothing comes to mind which makes him confident town for me.

Nothing day 2. Read the end of day 1, his initial vote on Pops, and his reads posts. There's a lot of analysis day 1, and if he is partners with both unwnd and Krazy, his trajectory doesn't really make sense. I am hard tunnelling both of his partners, so vocally siding with me without too much bravado is a weird angle as scum. I was a bit paranoid of him yesterday, but after rereading his posting just didn't feel like scum. He also knows me better than most people in this lobby, so he would know I am a player that gets lynches through for better or worse, and adding a vote to the ammunition on his partners is... I think suboptimal. I also don't think he'd want to play the deep game to f3 in TM.

I do not love his sparse activity, but its not super abnormal for him. He's probably among the lightest in the town clears with Nancy for me. And yea, he had a couple really good analysis posts yesterday imo. Are you still scumspecting him?

[Eddie Cane]

Who was your save on bro?

Is there a reason Elsa is not there? Or is she just auxiliary (4th)? NaCl was the towniest/5th in my pool (and we have 5 kills) so no complaints there.

[Eddie Cane]

Well I'm telling you I would've killed the doctor so I could have a Fricken chance, because I can basic math too.

Does that mean whoever made the kill (or lack of kill) was a newb scum or miscounted the math?

Killing myself/Oka is actually fine, because the doctor is outed. Going to evens is not an issue, just means they think (Eddie/Oka) is more of a threat than DDL and/or they prefer evens. Doesn't have to be a misplay.

[Eddie Cane]

of course i dont get the lynches i want and i ended up hammering unwnd for other reasons but soft bussing isnt exactly out of the realm of possibility here

you disagree with my auto 5 killpool at all?

i agree soft bussing is a potential thing, hence bob and nacl not being town clears. SS did not feel like bussing to me though, you disagree?

[Eddie Cane]

If they prefer evens then they'd know with deduction who the 5 lynches would probs be. Unless they already pocketed you it's suicide.

Yea but its still 5 lynches with 11 alive my friend. 11 -> 9 -> 7 -> 5 -> 3 ->

[Eddie Cane]

and that if he was town i needed him to push pine with me

he did push pine

off a cliff

[Eddie Cane]

Well uh reading into scum's mind is weird my take is

1) I vocally town read Pine and scum read Krazy
2) Pine was not town reading Krazy and Mastina / Xtoxm / Kuribo is a strong team with good Krazy reads
3) Combining me!IC townreading town!Pine who is jointly scumreading scum!Krazy... probably always leads to dead!unwnd day 2 regardless of Pine being alive, which then spews Pine as town

don't think its a wild kill :shrug:

SS was useless d2 agree but he also voted scum yesterday if you're bussing to win in f3 do you really do it that nonchalantly?

[Eddie Cane]

you are RC

watch it

[Eddie Cane]

All 3 of these people have votes, but I would like to propose a town bloc of Titus, Oka, SS.

I just want this to be right

but uh, I think I hard town read him day 1 independent of pushes. His presence has been 0 lately which isn't helping confidence. I haven't played with him!scum fwiw.

you thinking he's kill today maybe or just something to consider after scummier slots are purged if games still going

[Eddie Cane]

we should probably go through every slot and make sure we don't end up marking them town for random reasons and then auto kill the lhfs

we have 3 ics so one of us can play devils advocate wo everyone wanting our heads

I've uh been doing this extensively with Ank Tom and Dann because we all agree this is the funnest TM game but down to do it again

start with Titus Amrun Nancy?

[Eddie Cane]

Titus yo

I need reads on Nancy, Krazy, Piss, Pops. With reasons please

Weak town, weak scum, moderate town, moderate scum

Should be in my iso

lol i think this one post is enough to town bloc Titus

[Eddie Cane]

Oka I spent a lot of the night phase vetting my town circle with my team so I think its actually easier if I let you come to the same conclusions and we discuss the disagreements (hopefully only SS)

and DDL whenever he's free

[Eddie Cane]

My piss town read has only strengthened. His play as scum is agenda driven and it’s just ... not that, here.

I am going to be honest, I think these 3 posts mean I can't let Piss live this game even if there are townie points

because the core town here is

- ND
- oka
- piss
- amrun
- unwnd
- SS

- eddie


leaving

- hecktic
- bob
- nacl
- elsa
- doodles
- titus

unwnd is justa shitty comprise

unwnd is in any case a counter to a counter wagon at this point. I think Ive underestimated the methodology oka has employed here and he's gathering reads, but the wagon itself is a compromise.

[Eddie Cane]

I gave some town!Nancy points yesterday to Titus, somewhere.

[Eddie Cane]

I think scum bussed, and unwind was fine with lynching Elsa, so I don’t believe he would buss his buddy.

scum bussed
and scum pushed a player
therefore scum did not bus

[Eddie Cane]

i'm talking about Pops. Once two ICs are both voting unwnd then the votes don't really matter, the lynch is going through.

[Eddie Cane]

Nancy, I will say this: I don't think scum's game plan would be to spend a crucial night kill to frame somebody already easily pushable for having bad associations with flipped scum. If Piss is scum, its not because of that.

[Eddie Cane]

Votecount 1.14

Pine (4) -

Hectic, Amrun, Nancy Drew 39, Krazy

NaCl (3) -

Pine, pisskop, Titus

Hectic (1) -

Elsa Jay

OkaPoka (1) -

NaCl

Titus (1) -

bob3141

Amrun (1) -

popsofctown

Something_Smart (1) -

DrDolittle

Krazy (1) -

Eddie Cane

DrDolittle (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (1) -

Something_Smart

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

I think reading from this point on is the right part of the thread to form good reads. There hadn't been a wagon on (flipped) scum up to my Krazy vote, and then it transitions into me trying to control the thread into a Pops lynch along with some Amrun. I think this is where the stances are most relevant, not at EoD when Pops' fate was all but sealed as Oka said.

[Eddie Cane]

I will say a rude thing and a nice thing.

Spoiler: rude

Nancy, I will say this: I don't think scum's game plan would be to spend a crucial night kill to frame somebody already easily pushable for having bad associations with flipped scum. If Piss is scum, its not because of that.

Well it happened with Flubber NK to frame Ari hydra in YGM and scum tried to mislynch them the rest of the game, so why not?

I could not possibly care less about a scenario with random players in a game I was not in.

Spoiler: nice

Dann said he would bet a lot of money on Nancy being town, in case that was in question.

[Eddie Cane]

I agree Oka. It didn't feel like Krazy thought I was lynchable. I was kind of being a dick to him to get him to spew scum more, such as how he called random posts a scum lynch and (to me) progressively got scummier. His first posts were all "you're town but wrong", not "you're scum."

[Eddie Cane]

Pops got a don corleone nom, I would not expect bad scum play. Her and Krazy were both generally town read at mid d1 iirc.

I'm curios what you think the other scum should've been doing when Krazy was trying to make me and Pops look like TvT. The same? A lot of people were throwing that around.

[Eddie Cane]

ive already voted krazy and feel like he has projected town

Disagree, sorry.

i can see that which is why im waiting on for you to explain why

if I didn't make it clear, the reason I was being unhelpful is to reduce NK equity due to PR. sorry if that was frustrating d1.

[Eddie Cane]

{Eddie, DDL}
{NaCl}
{Hectic, bob, Elsa}
{Amrun, Nancy, Titus}
{Oka, pisskop}
{unwnd}

Man this is garbage though. Don't quote me on any of these.

@Oka we have this

[Eddie Cane]

Votecount 1.30

popsofctown (5) -

Amrun, Something_Smart, bob3141, Eddie Cane, Titus

Eddie Cane (2) -

popsofctown, Elsa Jay

unwnd (2) -

OkaPoka, DrDolittle

NaCl (2) -

Pine, pisskop

Pine (1) -

Hectic

Not Voting (3) -

NaCl, unwnd, Nancy Drew 39

With 15 players alive it takes 8 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-01-16 22:00:00).

I think everything before this VC Pops intended to live, and after was antispew most likely.

[Eddie Cane]

entire unwnd iso reads as someone who just gave up lmfao

maybe its just the obvious pool

This is lowkey part of why I'm not exactly super worried, haha

[Eddie Cane]

I am so happy my NaCl tr was correct.

I still think DDL is town on play, completely ignoring he was very likely saved.

[Eddie Cane]

Piss > Hectic > Elsa just ends it I think. If not, there's another lynch for bob and a 5th for DDL or SS.

[Eddie Cane]

For the record @NaCl good play but I'm pretty sure the roleswap gambit works better if you let the VT (DDL) die, not save him.

[Eddie Cane]

we lynch by the numbers, no reason not to

sooo, lets do a list and then murderdeathkill down it.


my prefered list includes hec and bob. salt is on it too tho

I already gave my lynch list of 5. What do you think the order should be after you?

[Eddie Cane]

Hey elsa your deal was piss first not hectic too D:

[Eddie Cane]

@NaCl (and @SS maybe?)

Spoiler: Not game solving related advice

I just want to post this because it could have been a pretty significant difference. Purely as advice for future games. Just the full explanation to what Hectic and I previously said.

Doing a gambit like that is fine. 1 scum alive, open setup, there is close to 0 risk. The worst case is you are nightkilled, DDL is confirmed not the doc, and that's that. Same thing that would have happened without the gambit. I'd say its a good play, props to you or SS (if he's town ) for thinking of it.

The problem is, the follow through. You are not supposed to put a save on DDL there unless you are close to 100% confident he is town (which I don't think you should be here, but in general). Landing a save does not earn town another kill. If nobody dies, it confirms that scum is SS or DDL. If you or I or Oka or somebody else dies, that would not have been preventable by saving DDL. If DDL dies, it removes a slot from the PoE, which is effectively another kill gifted to us by the mafia. It is a good thing for DDL to die there! We are at a PoE of 6 with him alive, and still only have 5 kills.

Now, assume you do think DDL is lock town and put a save on him, and nobody dies - what happened this game. You'll notice DDL did not start the day claiming not-doc. That's because outing there is bad. You are now in the world where you are aiming for a second save, most likely on SS but myself or Oka is also possible. The role cop is dead, so they cannot hunt the real doc. The second save buys us that 6th kill. Again, the worst case is you die, and we figure out what happened regardless of SS' alignment. The only time you out today is if you are close to being lynched. Both myself and Oka (the ICs) had said we think you are town / the last slot in the PoE, which is actually the sweet spot because you are not townie enough to get nightkilled randomly and you are not scummy enough to get lynched. DDL is obviously going to defend you as well. Nobody is going to strongman a lynch against the 3 ICs. You were not in danger of dying today. Outing does not actually have any benefit. We are actually worse off than I thought we were by a little bit, because I think independently you were townier than DDL is.

You've played a pretty good game dude, no beef. Just explaining what the mistake and follow up mistake was was so it doesn't happen in another game.

[Eddie Cane]

I like... kind of want to just chain lynch the PoE so people here can focus on other games. But in the sake of due diligence, we should probably establish a proper order. I think people agree on my proposed {Piss, Elsa, Bob, Hectic} being the first 4 kills, but not the order? And I am unsure who I'd kill in SS and DDL if it really went that far, so I'm hoping it doesn't.

@NaCl just sheep me on Titus town. Blame me if I'm wrong.

[Eddie Cane]

Spoiler: some DDL posts that lean town I think

what's the probability we'd put on pops+eddie hoods having one scum?

i might be slowly warming up pops scum, but i think i need the bread to stayed in the oven a bit longer first.

rn im not convinced.

what's the probability we'd put on pops+eddie hoods having one scum?

i might be slowly warming up pops scum, but i think i need the bread to stayed in the oven a bit longer first.

rn im not convinced.

If one of pop and eddie is town and the otehr scum. Who would you think is the most likely to eb scum and why?

And if you had to vote for one over the other who would it be

i have no idea bob. im not even sure 1 is town and 1 is scum so im polling the public. gun to my head eddie town

What do I do when I dont support any of the wagons

Could be partner dismissing us as TvT when he doesn't think I can get lynched...

VOTE: unwnd

and then votes the other partner which would (soft) confirm me as town and lead to a probable Pops d2 lynch...? Heh. I think this is just town.

[Eddie Cane]

Like at that stage people had Krazy/Eddie as TvT and Pops/Eddie as TvS. I doubt the third partner decides to bus the slot that's widely regarded as townier.