White Flag - TM2020

[Auro]

Dong... Ceph thought you said "1 scum wins scum the game" when you meant "1 scum wins town the game".

[Auro]

He's just going for the deep game pocket on FF while bussing his partner in White Flag? When two scum dead means the end of the game? No.

I mean, if NSG just outright says she's not gonna play the game and you're sure she's getting lynched at some point... Might as well bus, no?

[Auro]

What... How?

[Auro]

Flash lynch
VOTE: Espeonage

[Auro]

Mr Magnum, let's lynch Cheeky's partner if she's scum? Who would her partner be?

[Auro]

A random vote close to deadline doesnt make sense in my opinion.

It wasn't a random vote, it was the hammer. I had specifically asked someone to hammer the post before. Someone was going to do it. NSG was a goner. Why not hammer for the cred? This defense doesn't make sense.

If Dong was scum and cognizant that he was hammering for le town cred, I don't feel like he'd be making this argument at all. It's interesting he doesn't even see it as a hammer vote.

[Auro]

Don't be scummy now I don't want to face the uphill climb of trying to get you lynched.

We should just flashwagon Esp today.

[Auro]

NSG's strategy and the lack of RC proxy playing this game is still interesting to me, wondering if they wrote it off due to unskilled scum partners.

@Dunn: Lmao, I love the tiny jokes you keep posting in game

@Cheeky: 3 - there are scummier slots?

[Auro]

Yeah. That townread on me from Maria is a scumclaim though

Oooh can you explain?

[Auro]

1747 was aimed at Dong. ^

[Auro]

Daaaaaaaaaaaamn

[Auro]

Cheeky, Dunn is correct that your implied conclusion (Dunn is scum) is faulty given the premise that Dong is scum or being saved for later, given Dunn's pushing Dong.

Dunn, Cheeky might have a legitimate point wrt Maria townreading her being a scumtell - let her explain it, right? No need for attacks.

[Auro]

UNVOTE:
Ugh

[Auro]

UNVOTE:
Ugh

What're you thinking?

I wanted to see if Dunn would hop on to this (in a Dunn+Esp hypothetical).

[Auro]

[Auro]

VOTE: Espeonage

[Auro]

that's exactly what i'm saying though

trying to lynch someone (cheeky) right now who is very clearly absolutely not getting lynched doesn't seem like a strong play for scum

Exactly and this after that ridiculous attack on you. I'm as confused as you are, but yeah, I think overthinking at this point is bad. Let's just lynch Esp?

[Auro]

I mean, i gave up trying to convince you. I still havent given up on winning so maybe i'll steer it towards cheeky and wrap this game up.

Scumslip scumslip scumslip scumslip

[Auro]

UNVOTE:
Sigh

[Auro]

FF have you discussed the game with Reundo yet? What's his solve?

[Auro]

Or, on the other hand, they wrote off the game due to inexperienced/easy-to-catch scum players and decided NSG could help in towngames instead.

[Auro]

More time to study other games before teammates flip?

[Auro]

Assuming a prior that your scum game is a high % loss despite effort, and the relative chances that a "not playing D1" gambit works? This is very weak reasoning anyway.

There are tons of reasons to "shade" most slots lol, if my intention is to drive a lynch in inactive slots

[Auro]

I mean I find that comparably plausible to "NSG had awesome teammates so decided to lurk out and have scum partners bus her" as a strategy.

[Auro]

Dann/Me scumteam would be kick-ass in this gamestate tho

[Auro]

Thanks! I'm such an awesome scum player, NSG trusted my completely :')

[Auro]

Wifom

[Auro]

Talk to me on Auro/Dunn/FF, why aren't you town reading them? What even is your read on them?

Because we didnt check some imaginary boxes that cleared us for various and laughable reasons.

What are you talking about, I'm super obv town

This is pure mechanical game solve.

This isnt a thing.

He narrowed it to "1 scum in pool" because compositions etc, then argued that from that premise lynching everyone in the pool wins the game.

[Auro]

Still interested in hearing Reundo's perspectives btw, any reason he isn't reading the game yet?

[Auro]

Dann, that wifom post was a joke btw

[Auro]

Does anyone want more time, or shall I hammer?

[Auro]

Actually no, FF, I'm waiting for Reundo's solve

[Auro]

Yeah, I'm fine waiting for a couple days, won't hold it against you

[Auro]

To take a page from NSG and RC, kill the non-bussers first

VOTE: Cheeky

Where'd they say that?

What happened to your Cheeky read?

VOTE: Gobbledygook

[Auro]

You don't care for Esp?

[Auro]

AtE from Esp, who's fine with his own lynch? Interesting

[Auro]

I mean lynch me so I can shit on you guy in the dead thread

What did we do to offend you so?

I believe he believes AtE is a good strategy this game so he's trying to force some

[Auro]

What does Esp lynch accomplish if he's town?

[Auro]

FF, I think Gobble actually has higher scum equity right now, he's making up stuff

[Auro]

Oh you hammered Esp :/ Esp were you town?

[Auro]

I'll only lynch Espy if we 100% lynch gobbles tomorrow.

+1

[Auro]

I don’t know if you want a turkey pecking your ass, but ok

Lol!

[Auro]

yet this town is corralling around her

This is funny cause I was the first vote on your wagon lol

[Auro]

Molla, 100% Gobbles is the lynch today; I'll sheep you tomorrow if he's town!

[Auro]

FF, all the reasons for Gobscum are from the last few pages.

-Heavy unnatural AtE
-Made up reads (Esp, Cheeky etc)
-Molla's chainsaw

We can lynch both, but I want the faster win

[Auro]

Like I can't believe the Hop wagon never happened, what the actual fuck?

But you were fine with Esp lynch?

[Auro]

I feel like I’m getting a lot of Ate from Esp and that’s always been my blind spot.

and he's a read blind spot for me

[Auro]

What's your preferred lynch order? In case you die.

[Auro]

Feel free to case Hopkirk, I haven't seen anything especially scummy from that slot.

[Auro]

Specifics?

[Auro]

I feel like nsg wouldn't have happened without gobble though

Doubt it

[Auro]

Lol Gobble stopped posting here, Molla stopped posting too - someone hammer.

[Auro]

Scum Gobbles giving up is not a plausible scenario?

[Auro]

Well, he could hope that someone thinks this^ and doesn't lynch him.

[Auro]

VOTE: Espeonage

[Auro]

note Esp didn't even hammer Gob

[Auro]

Dunn was pushing Dong, right?
I just want to lynch the turkey though.

[Auro]

Good for us (or at least me) though, no Dunn paranoia

[Auro]

To try and lynch the player they were pushing before.

VOTE: Gobble

[Auro]

Wifom worked to avoid his lynch end of D2.
Also, look at his entrance today.

[Auro]

Can you guys please just listen to me

VOTE: Dongempire

[Auro]

Hop threw out a bunch of obv townreads, I don't think scum does that with a partner down.

[Auro]

I wasn't paranoid of Dann

[Auro]

Yes, not of the duo

[Auro]

@Dann, Ceph: What plausible partners would scum Hop have?

[Auro]

Can you guys towncase the turkey?

[Auro]

Then why not Gobble?

[Auro]

And what makes Hop scum exactly?

[Auro]

For the record we have three lynches to get scum

Say Hop flips town, you lynch Dong and he flips town as well. Who would you want to lynch then?

[Auro]

For the record we have three lynches to get scum

Didn't occur to you when we tried to lynch Gobble?

ya'll are high af

seriously what game are you reading

I'll go today if you fucks want, I don't want to be in this town tbh, ya'll are fucking impossible to work with

Like I can't believe the Hop wagon never happened, what the actual fuck?

Convince me on Gobbles, like I literally don't understand, go

[Auro]

Spoiler:

I’m fairly discouraged at this point following the recent modkill and consequent tiebreaker implications. Been off work today and this is the fourth time I’ve opened up the site intending to get into the game then getting demotivated and just closing it.

I don’t think any of my team particularly joined with the expectation of winning, mostly to try and enjoy the games. They’ve been in general a lot less fun than I expected (tonewise trying to read has been a slog) and I’m struggling to find the motivation to help my team. I’m glad I got the game I did since people here actually seem enjoyable to play with. I’m basically treating this as a normal game rather than team mafia, albeit one where Hectic can occasionally weigh in, and where the mods read everything in our PTs so I can force the mods to read my erotica if I put game related content interspace throughout it.

The modkill itself results in a tiebreaker in the large theme which is pretty central to why I’m discouraged- we can’t mechanically win unless conditions so unlikely they’re virtually impossible have already been met. It’d be a lot easier if any of us had managed to roll mafia (which would be pretty good normally for team mafia bsed on last time) since then we could still win if we all won our games. Annoyingly, the tiebreaker means that even if all three of us were able to immediate call out and lynch the entire scumteams in our respective games it’s not possible for us to win the event unless very specific and unlikely events (all of which are completely out of our control, and most of which have already been determined):

1.) The game we are not in MUST be won by scum as the number of other teams (17) less expected scum numbers across all games is not sufficient to mean that we are the only team who won all of our games (unless there’s more scum than you’d anticipate based on regular setup design and/or there’s exactly one scum per each team).
2.) Every member of said winning scumteam MUST also have another member of their team who rolled scum and lost (though the loss is assumed knowledge as if we win any scum in game’s we’re in would lose).
3.) The game elements was modkilled in MUST also be won by town.

We need specific results in 2 games we have no way to influence, and we need the distribution of scum/town in each team to be very specific and have specific overlap. Nothing we could have done to stop the modkill either, but that’s gone now. Better hope nobody in your team manages to get modkilled. We’re hoping for pretty much all of the large to get modkilled obviously, since enough modkills means we can technically not lose the tiebreak, and running the numbers that’s actually a lot more likely than any other way we’ve got of inning at this point.

Spent enough time talking about this with my team that I’m reasonably confident I didn’t miss anything, but if anyone notices a way we can possibly still have any chance of winning even with the tiebreaker in place then please let me know.
Kind of kills a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the team element of team mafia.

Still, going to try and catch up on this absolutely normal and not at all special or once a year event. Expecting to be interrupted by an important call from work at some point though.

Hopkirk 'Hop' Hopkirk

^A post I doubt Hop makes as scum; the emotions here feel genuine. If he was scum, that'd give him a winning chance for TM (apparently) and I don't think he'd go through the effort to post this - why would it help?

Oh the Auro wagon has half shifted so keeping it up is less pressure than I thought. Sure.

VOTE: Northside
Votes NSG. Shifts it later, but read on.

Hop 'Hopimilius' Hopkirk

I didn't read up. I can't now either and no idea when I'll be able to next week due to work.

I've seen the lynch. I've lost all respect for NSG as a player. I've lost the respect that I had for RC as a player. I've discussed it with the team- people who've discussed irl how they like RC - and everyone seems to share this view.

I'm especially irritated as this clearly was only allowed due to reputation. A new player in that slot with an 7 day period without content would have been subbed out. When it's clearly strategic since she was playing elsewhere in TM I'm pissed that it was actually allowed and would have been disgusted if she was pulling that as my teammate.

Quoting my post end gimmick because fuck this game.

I'm mostly disgusted with RC/North and irritated with the mod for enabling it despite prod rules. The lynch I absolutely agreed with as I fairly clearly said. I don't remember if I used the words I want to policy lynch this.

So scum! Hopkirk casually votes NSG mid D1, is worried about not having a winning chance for TM but still is okay; and then when his partner flips he decides to fabricate *this*? I imagine if he was actually teammates with her he'd try to get NSG replaced. These posts look like a genuine town reaction.

[Auro]

Hop and Dong are two; I'm curious about the third.

[Auro]

Y’all are unlikely this is all vanilla or I’d soft a PR and end this fucking garbage can wagon

Good luck letting NSG live another three days while continuing to lurk btw

This is a mistake - NSG is scumclaiming right now

Oh no she might flee tonight!

Oh wait

What was up with this post?

why can't we lynch NSG tomorrow

?

Conflicting thought processes.

Math says he thinks it’s Ceph, Cheeky, NSG

Interesting that instead he just doesn't care for Cheeky or Ceph D2, readily votes Espy to "end the day" but cares a LOT when Gobble is wagoned.

[Auro]

I'll go today if you fucks want, I don't want to be in this town tbh, ya'll are fucking impossible to work with

BB, quote a single instance from any of your previous towngames where you take this stance against another wagon on D1/D2, please.

[Auro]

At Dong's post... Wow.

[Auro]

That leaves four people to be scum: Auro, myself, dann and cheeky.

@Dann: Scum!Dong's plan is what here exactly?

[Auro]

Ceph, the question implies the information of each successive lynch flipping town. I think the answer to that question is important in other ways, but I can't go into them right now.

[Auro]

@BB, cool - tell me why Gobble is town.

[Auro]

It's interesting because town!Molla never cared much about the lynch of a slot he didn't strongly townread, on D1/D2. Prove me wrong.

[Auro]

A hard stance against a wagon *on someone else*, not on yourself.
As in if someone else is getting wagoned, I don't think town!you gets upset on D1/D2.

None of those examples disprove this

[Auro]

but i think ya'll are really bad

Sure, but you agree that this is the *first* time you have ever reacted strongly to a slot (that you didn't strongly townread anyway) when it was wagoned early game?

[Auro]

those quotes are in order Auro I know that's shocking because you didn't know how to do it before but it is possible to post quotes and not mislead people by putting them in a different order

Um that was just because I clicked the plus buttons in the order, contradiction still stands.

but i think ya'll are really bad

Sure, but you agree that this is the *first* time you have ever reacted strongly to a slot (that you didn't strongly townread anyway) when it was wagoned early game?

I loved every other wagon

what would I react strongly to

You reacted strongly to the Gobble wagon. Saying "lynch me instead", "can't work with you guys", etc. Why?

[Auro]

FF, all the reasons for Gobscum are from the last few pages.

-Heavy unnatural AtE
-Made up reads (Esp, Cheeky etc)
-Molla's chainsaw

We can lynch both, but I want the faster win

FF, all the reasons for Gobscum are from the last few pages.
-Heavy unnatural AtE
-Made up reads (Esp, Cheeky etc)
-Molla's chainsaw

We can lynch both, but I want the faster win

I guess im just not ready to admit i was wrong about turkey.

Im praying that scum is just trying to deflect on to him.

I feel better about an Espy red flip, but if he flips green then Gobs has to be scum.

ya'll are high af

seriously what game are you reading

I'll go today if you fucks want, I don't want to be in this town tbh, ya'll are fucking impossible to work with

Like I can't believe the Hop wagon never happened, what the actual fuck?

Convince me on Gobbles, like I literally don't understand, go

Quoted, in order, without leaving out anything in the middle. What was 2194 a reaction to?

[Auro]

2194 was in reaction to me wanting to fucking die instead of being a part of this town because ya'll are doing whack shit

Which specifically was just the Gobble wagon, yeah?

[Auro]

Yes, so can you cite a single instance of you, as town, wanting to Smurfing die (btw where's Thor ) because of a wagon on someone else / a scumread not being wagoned, on D1/D2?

[Auro]

Okay so let's get Gobbles, we have three lynches to spend anyway, as you said.

[Auro]

Yes that post was gross

I don't like these posts as well. But still, Gob's the common factor.

Can we please lynch someone? Fucking anyone as long as it gets us closer to ending this game.

Its not so much this one itself, im just overgammed and im doing something irl thats taking time and i like whole assing things, not half.

FF vote gobbles.

Thats a lateral move. Espy has 4 votes on him, Gob 3. If i vote Gob we just switch that. You vote Espy and if he is town we hang Gob tomorrow. I havent been swinging my dick around too much this game, dont make me start.

[Auro]

Like I mentioned earlier, his disappointment at the mod-kill was genuine.

Scum!Hopkirk would still have a winning path from tie-breaks apparently, and would be relatively unfazed. Would he fabricate an entire post lamenting about town!him doesn't have a win path to TM and asking others if they do? Doubt it.

Also, if he was scum, he'd have done something about his lurking teammate. His posts were fine until NSG actually flipped.

Besides, I don't recall seeing any legitimate reasons to scumread him besides being in PoEs.

[Auro]

Dong.

[Auro]

66.66% to be exact

[Auro]

Good vote tho Cheeky if I’m wrong I’ll sheep you tomorrow 100%

Didn't you say she's scum if Hop and Dong were town?

[Auro]

that was a joke btw

I know, partner.

[Auro]

Wifom. If Gobbles was scum, and say, I got NK'd, you don't think he'd be lynched pretty fast today? Conversely, if he's town, killing either you or me makes sense for an easy Gobble lynch.

Gobble still scum.

[Auro]

You guys are heeding the reads of Dunnstral though.

[Auro]

I'm heeding the kill of Dunnstral, Pops thinks I should stick with clearing Gobbles and Ali wants us to flip consensus. I don't actually agree with Dunns reads.

You don't agree on Dong?

[Auro]

Lynch Gob

[Auro]

Eddie Cane's hot take is that Hopkirk tried to get NSG replaced, and failed.

Would've reflected in his D1 posting when NSG was wagoned multiple times, no?

[Auro]

You guys need to haul ass

No one's really bothered about the impending Hopkirk lynch. Wagon Gobbles

[Auro]

It'll be interesting if you guys put Gob at L-1

[Auro]

Literally just bring people close to lynch and see how others react, this is White Flag

[Auro]

VOTE: FormerFish

Scum.

[Auro]

Town's supposed to be actively wagoning people, bringing them close to lynch range. One more scum and game over, so there's an insane amount of potential associatives tells - we should be scrutinizing slots closely and seriously. Calling the game boring and doing nothing else hurts our chances a lot.

If anyone's bored, sheep me on FF/Gobble.

If anyone's too busy to play, replace out.

[Auro]

Like worst case scenario is that Hop, Dong and you are all town and we've ignored BB/gobbles/FF/Cephrir.

I'm actively proposing a BB+Gobbles team.
No one really thinks he's town.
Yet, no one wants to lynch him.
Esp was towny EoD2. But no one cared.
Gob has been continuously scummy. He appears when it's convenient, makes wild, obviously made up statements. Has someone defend him very hard when wagoned. Starts D3 with a Dong vote saying "Please just listen to me" and pisses off, no one cares.

Yes, you guys are ignoring BB+Gobbles+FF. FF/Gobbles and BB/Gobbles are both valid solves.

I'm pushing Gobbles for this, and you then somehow lose your townread on me, declare Gobbles town for it, then also acknowledge you're ignoring Gobbles. What even?

[Auro]

I’m on my lunch break now
If I die Cheeky/Dann looks really bad with NSG scum flip. I think it would make BBmolla town too

That flash BBmolla wagon has to be scumdriven change my mind

I’m on my lunch break now
If I die Cheeky/Dann looks really bad with NSG scum flip. I think it would make BBmolla town too

You called yourself low hanging fruit earlier. Why do you think you have a chance of dying?

If NSG flips scum I think it makes me fairly obviously town since I’ve been saying that for a long time

To take a page from NSG and RC, kill the non-bussers first

VOTE: Cheeky

Random posts from Gobble's ISO pointing towards a Molla+Gobbles pair. He keeps saying NSG should go, blah blah blah, but doesn't vote her (instead says "consider my vote on her"), does that towards the end of day.

He *says* NSG scum should mean Cheeky/Dann look bad, and that Molla is town. Lol from where does he get this loony ass logic? Is that the logical conclusion someone arrives to when Dann literally started the momentum on NSG, while Molla only wanted to have her lynch when he was wagoned himself?

[Auro]

Hop, dragging the day out without voting is useless. No one's going to react, or do anything at all without votes in play.
Lay your vote and carry on.

[Auro]

Sure.

You're being wagoned yourself. Refusing to play till deadline-2 is going to give easy fuel for the wagon, and you're only going to end up a distraction for town.

What do you have to lose by voting the turkey? The day's not going to end, right? There's nothing to lose and a lot to gain. Vote please!

[Auro]

Consider this your "D3 RVS" vote. Go ahead.

[Auro]

If you’re right we win

If you’re wrong you get no say in tomorrow’s lynch Auro

Absolutely fine, I'll just sheep whoever.
And no Gob quicklynches - I began to lose my Esp scumread towards the end of D2, I don't want a repeat of that.

[Auro]

Cheeky, I'm beginning to think NSG is a fine lynch at this point. I've sortaaaa lost heart in an FF lynch. Idk.

Cheeky, I said this after the FF exchanges.
At this point, as scum I'd know NSG is scum, and I know that's the lynch for D1. If I didn't want NSG lynched, I could've made a lot more noise if I didn't want to hammer town myself. If I wanted to bus NSG at the last moment, I would've done it around this point.

Instead, I just say I "think" NSG is a fine lynch, and don't vote. Don't you think I would've had a vote in play for the credit? What do I gain by hinting to you to vote, instead of voting her myself?

[Auro]

I challenge anyone to multi-iso Dann/Auro and tell me that those initial interactions are natural.

Why don't you think prior experience plays a factor here?

[Auro]

Dann: I want to call his play... political, but I have some reasons to believe he's town, but he's a great scum player as well, argh~ I'll stick to town for now

I don't think I "strongly townread" Dann D1? He was a sane voice against the stupid wagon on me, and there was some other town behavior (like TW's message) that kept him at a tier-2 townread. My townread was stronger post D1, from his NSG push.

Experience should explain his lack of D1 scumread on me; the worst (who played with me much more iirc) being in his team explains the townread.

If Dann+Auro was the scumteam, the game would be in auto-pilot for us. I'd let you "bulldoze" whoever and mildly lurk out while taking potshots at the scummy looking shots. Why would it matter which one of Hop/Dong/Gob was being wagoned? If no one's posting, all the better for scum!AuroDann.

[Auro]

Your reasoning makes sense if NSG was a flash with no competition but there was me pushing FF and likely to hammer and then there was a flash BB wagon that I'm not sure you were around to hammer for. I had given intent twice and I think you were posturing around his wagon with all the team talk stuff. I don't think you would actually believe that after the whole day of me tunneling him that your nudge would make a difference.

The flash BB wagon doesn't matter, my nudge was before that.

And why not? What could I say in that position that you believe I believe would make a difference? I did think we were working together then. I didn't say it in a vacuum. Besides, if my bluff didn't work, there's no way I'd predict someone else (like Molla) would be wagoned - people were warming up to the idea of lynching NSG by then anyway.

[Auro]

Uh
VOTE: Gobble

[Auro]

This whole paranoia thing is a distraction. We should figure out and come to consensus on Dong/Gob/FF/Hopkirk.

[Auro]

Lack of presence is more a townread for him IMO, he's too chill to be scum.

[Auro]

Yes

[Auro]

Dong, how about you sell me on:
1. Why you're town - is your play here different from your scumgames?
2. Who's scum in your proposed lynch pool?

[Auro]

I no longer think Gobbles/BB are svs based on EOD2 and BB wanting to lynch him today.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lag_Gambit

[Auro]

Cheeky/Dann, interesting

[Auro]

Dann, Ank was about to do some VCA, right?

[Auro]

They're kinda ridiculous and I'd expect scum to have more subtlety in the bus to town cred equation

Not Gobble

Also, you quoted BB votes on Gobble to discount BB+Gobble team, that's the classic white flag Gambit.

Molla might be a better lynch than Gobble btw.

[Auro]

checking some things

Auro, what's your Cheeky read at?

Town.

[Auro]

Ank says that independently she thinks Hop is most likely to flip scum

@Auro

Tl;Dr for Hopscum?

[Auro]

Dann, your team should discuss and come to a conclusion. Seems like Eddie wants Dong dead, Ank Hopkirk, and tw Cheeky.

I'm not sure what I'd want Ank to specifically look at in the game. Activity levels from a lot of suspect slots have been low.

[Auro]

Dann, I'd like you and your team to read any of Gob's towngames, and tell me if his play here is any similar.

For example, his ISO here is short: viewtopic.php?p=11553549&user_select%5B ... #p11553549

But there's clear gamesolving, questioning, etc. which isn't present at all in this game.

[Auro]

BBmolla --- Independently probably just town

Explain. I've seen nothing towny in his play.

[Auro]

I dont think dong is scum

You don't say.

[Auro]

Given there are a few of us wanting to lynch Gobbles, and he's equally suspect in your eyes, why not vote him over me?

[Auro]

Sorry, tabs were next to each other. But yeah, any town game.
viewtopic.php?p=11475775&user_select%5B ... #p11475775

[Auro]

Wait, no, delete that post. Wrong link again

[Auro]

Oh nevermind, yeah that's the one, I thought the game was still in progress, thank god

[Auro]

I skimmed the first link of yours.
There are questions, mostly all empty and not gamesolving. It looks like a pretty big contrast from his questions in the towngame I linked (maybe I'm biasing)!
He follows up on questions in that game; does he do that in those scumgames too? I don't see any.

Chamber before your hiatus were you generally an accurate player?

Salamence20 are you literally talking to fans? Like the ones that blow air?

Chamber if you aren’t confident why is your vote stagnant?

That’s the second time you’ve levied that accusation against me. You sure it isn’t a playstyle difference between you and me, Looker?

VOTE: looker

Please answer my question

[Auro]

Dong's "solve" is extremely wonky. His scumpool is effectively Auro/Gobbles/Dann.
I'm trying to get Gob lynched, and Dann's willing to flip that too, so the only pair remaining is Dann+Auro.

And that solve doesn't match with his gamestate read (scum want to control the game or whatever).

[Auro]

You and dann have been incredibly active.

Exactly, and why would we bother to be "incredibly active" when the rest of town collectively agrees on lynching some variation of Gobble/Hopkirk/FF/Dong etc with occasional bouts of paranoia on us?

[Auro]

he seems to be universally scumread,

which isnt something his scum partner if there was one would have allowed

Spoiler: Uh huh

Don’t like Gobble wagon.

Can we not lynch gobbles

It accomplishes nothing if he’s town

Because this push is notably horrendous

Gobbles countered everything you said and you just keep adding more shit to the pile

you're trying to make a square fit into a circular hole and it's painful

gobbles is tactful, he knows he's not about to lead this town when there are bigger egos who'd prefer to

I don't understand why you think this makes him scum

If I'm at LYLO and it's between you and him I'm voting you

that's all I'll leave it at

Spews Cephrir town. Talks about scum NSG the most but votes Dong.

if you don't recall, yesterday NSG wagoned was discouraged by multiple people

Now you're being dumb. This has nothing to do with my push on Turkey, you're just strawmanning too.

Omfg. My push on Turkey isn't about him defending NSG it's about his bullshit scumread there early and last minute vote. It's about progression and you know that you're just being a fucking idiot.

I'm so angry but glad you outted to defend your buddy. Neither of you endgame.

Glgl I'm out.

Then lynch me

ya'll are high af

seriously what game are you reading

I'll go today if you fucks want, I don't want to be in this town tbh, ya'll are fucking impossible to work with

Convince me on Gobbles, like I literally don't understand, go

You havent been a notable presence - if you arent active in the last couple days you can easily go to the wolves.
Is there any problem with this thinking?

Two, actually.
I was active before too.
And na, I'm already townread by enough slots enough to make me a less plausible lynch than [Hop|FF|Dong|Gobble]. The

amount

of activity I'd need to keep myself at a townread is far lesser than it is right now. I can pop in occasionally and demand Hopkirk/whoever to post and piss off, maybe throw out some colored reads list, etc etc.

[Auro]

Far as i know you havent made a case for any of them.

What reality are you living in xD I made soooo many posts on BB/Gobble scum. I've made cases for Hopkirk town Perhaps read my posts before you make dumb attacks?

Who's not considering that lynch pool, apart from the people inside the lynch pool?

"You aren't townread by anyone here [Cephrir, Dong, Cheeky, Hop, FF] this is also incorrect; as a simple exercise, do retrieve the last read Cheeky/Hop/Cephrir made on me. In other words, read the game.

@Dann: Loony town.

[Auro]

Also works as Gob partner

[Auro]

you're still hanging by a thread

Opposite. I'm unlynchable today, buddy.

[Auro]

The half where you say I've done not much more than Hopkirk, when it's evident from the other half that you've read jack shit of my posts?

"Read my posts properly, and others' posts properly" should answer the entirety of your post.

[Auro]

No, Dong is town.
Agree, Hop's recent posting has been pretty bad - but please let's have Gobble after we lynch Hop.

[Auro]

I wish someone would explain Molla town.

[Auro]

Very interested in why they're not a pairing. I'm surprised that none of Dann's team seem notably suspicious of Gobble here

Dann doesn't townread Gob. Too bad if he's Gob's partner - I'm getting Gob lynched tomorrow if not today.

[Auro]

Actually, no, I kinda like Hop's catch-up.

[Auro]

Dann, how is Auro+Hop not a very likely team for you? I'm surprised no one has taken that line of attack yet.

[Auro]

Yup! I am.

[Auro]

No, I don't think I 'confirmed' myself town for that.
Btw, Reundo's still not looked at the game, eh?

[Auro]

What's your take on Dong's recent posting?
What's your Gob read? Could you explain? (And possibly Reundo's read)

[Auro]

Cool. What's your own take on Gob?

[Auro]

Nevermind. Cool.

[Auro]

Lynch Gob

[Auro]

Gob still scum! Apologies for making the Hopkirk lynch harder if this wins the game

[Auro]

You guys are letting Gob happily lurk out. He's made multiple promises to play the game, yet ignores this game completely while playing others...

[Auro]

Hmm you can still get into it and post now, FF. Go ahead.

[Auro]

That's fine, I just want to see some actual content before the thread's locked. Consider Hop town obviously

[Auro]

Hop any final words? Thoughts on next lynches?

[Auro]

It was nice playing with you, wish you were a little bit more active. See ya.

[Auro]

FF I'm coming for you.

No Cheeky. You go Gob with me.

[Auro]

Nope, Gob dies because he's scum.

[Auro]

Hey Auro, can you reask the dozen questions I've asked people on the last few pages about their bad trajectories on me tomorrow instead of letting people ignore them thanks.

Cheeky I might take out of that pool on more reading. Fish I could easily see replacing them.

Will be on it, boss. I'm 90% going for Gob tomorrow, but I'll make sure I do this.

[Auro]

Dann, you'll vote Gob with me tomorrow then?

[Auro]

No, Gob's dying.

[Auro]

Sure.

[Auro]

Well well well.

[Auro]

Lol
And my partner?

[Auro]

If you're scum going for an Auro->Dann lynch path is impossible.

[Auro]

Lol
And my partner?

[Auro]

Why would {Auro+Dann} kill Ceph, who townread me and locktowned Dann? Cheeky is the far superior choice for us, considering all her paranoia, yeah? I really doubt Ceph would be re-evaluating us.

[Auro]

And a Cheeky lynch makes it real easy to simply lynch FF today.

[Auro]

This should be a useful read to you.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... g_is_WIFOM

[Auro]

The night kill is absolutely evidence against the {Auro+Dann} scumteam.
{Auro+Dann} has a very easy win path by keeping uninterested Ceph, who also townreads me and lockreads Dann, alive.
{Auro+Dann} has little reason to kill Ceph and then make a "wifom" argument that this eliminates an {Auro+Dann} team.

And if {Auro+Dann} can be eliminated from Dong's solve, that leaves {Auro+Gobbles} or {Dann+Gobbles}.
Common denominator being Gobbles.

Who I want lynched.

[Auro]

Yes, and that lynch is absolutely happening today.

[Auro]

Keeping me alive seemed to keep Gobbles alive so far, yeah?

[Auro]

I wasnt killed because i was the only one who consistently voiced suspicion on dann and auro.

No, it's because you're scummy af. Cephrir was pretty obviously town and a universal townread.

[Auro]

I'd say gob would fare just as well without you alive.

Sure... implication being? That night killing me doesn't make a difference? So?

Let me know when i have to say anything myself, right now im doing just fine with your own words.

I honestly don't grok your thought processes; even as scum you must be imagining you have something concrete here.

[Auro]

Keeping me alive seemed to keep Gobbles alive so far, yeah?

If 2801 was a response to this, I meant keeping me alive caused no real harm to Gobbles so far. Not that it was the sole reason Gobbles is alive still.

[Auro]

I think it's pretty obvious Cephrir was the night kill if Dann/Auro are scum because otherwise they would have been killed instead

Why not you?

[Auro]

Ceph would be unwilling to let us lead on FF?
Town wouldn't want to lynch FF after you called him scum and died?

Why would we need you over Ceph o.O

[Auro]

I wish Dunn was here.


Shouldn't have NK'd him, sigh

[Auro]

Because Ceph would have worked out why he was at lylo, is harder to sway, and he looked like the towniest player in the game to you two because you're both scum parading too well as town that it looks super bad that neither of you are dead yet the sarcastic non-contributor who you both townread is dead.

I'm not answering another question about why wouldn't you do xyz as scum because this is beyond pointless. Tell me why gobbles is -still- scum.

It's pretty objectively clear you'd be harder to "sway". Ceph

literally

said Dann can win if he's scum. Meanwhile, you were

constantly

voicing an {Auro+Dann} paranoia.

Your tunnel is unnatural. You have not hesitated on gobbles since day 2. You must have a scumclaim if some kind to ignore all information since.

Okay, let's do your exercise. I was pushing {Molla+Gobbles} since D2. What new information have we gotten since then?

D2 Lynch, Espeonage Town

: Who I townread then anyway, and didn't have much legitimate input himself.

N2 Kill, Dunnstral Town

: Who I was townreading, with a little bit of paranoia; whose reads weren't inconsistent with my push.

D3 Lynch, Hopkirk Town

: Who I townread and tried to fight a lynch off of.

N3 Kill, Cephrir Town

: Who I townread, and who had Dong, FF, and Gobbles at the bottom of his reads list. (2431)

I have not been Night Killed

: Which seems like a perfectly valid strategy for scum!Gobbles to follow.

Now,

which

piece of information must be enough basis for re-evaluation?

Oh and Ceph was never getting lynched while you're attempting to lead the town. Whereas theres a fantastic case for cheeky/FF or cheeky/gobbles you can both push now.

And we care why? With only two slots from {FF, Gobbles, Dong, Molla} to lynch from to win the game, the attainability of a lynch outside that pool is far less important than the chances of pocketing them.

[Auro]

Tell me why gobbles is -still- scum.

• Meta mismatch from town games. He asks legitimately gamesolving questions in his town games, and follows up on them; and a lot of empty questions as scum. And whatever questions he's asked here are empty.
  
• Activity. He's been inactive for a long while in this game specifically.
  
• Associatives with Molla. When Gob's lynch was actually going through in D2, Molla unnaturally hard defended his slot with heavy AtE, asking to be lynched himself instead. I've not seen Molla do this in D2 before after a scum flip.
  
• D1 play. His NSG vote, coupled with "Get the non-bussers first" afterwards is scummy. His EoD1 behavior was also scummy IIRC, and has been analysed before.
  
• D2 play. What did he do D2? Give his D2 ISO a skim; there's nothing meaningful.
  
• D3 play. A naked vote on Dong, "Please just listen to me", empty questions, and lurked his butt off. Unfulfilled promises of playing.

You tell me why he's town, assuming I'm town. (i.e. no "u scum so turkey town!!")

[Auro]

The fact that scum will want to control the narrative so afk players cant be scum

Yes, the only logical conclusion is that the active players must be scum.
Scum never lurk off, because they want to take control. Therefore active players scum, case closed.

[Auro]

"You're active"
"You're parading as town"
"You were right about all the flips so far"

Brilliant casework, Dong and Cheeky

Re: 2802 - you're scummy in the game, i.e. others wanted to lynch you, I read you as loony town. That's not a contradiction.

[Auro]

IF you were killed it'd be the "awkwardest shit ever", okay, so how does that make me scum? You were obviously the inferior night kill compared to Cephrir on objective reasoning: you're way less townread than Cephrir was.

If killing you "incriminates Auro and Dann", but you haven't been killed, the inference fails.

Yes, you're not a good NK; but that isn't evidence that I'm scum. You're fabricating an explanation to fit your own reads.

Cephrir was more townread than Dann also. A lot of you are pushing pretty shit paranoia theories.

[Auro]

Okay, great, you have an explanation for scum!Auro not killing town!Dong. Now, what about it? Is this your grand Auro case?

[Auro]

I know this is adressed to cephrir and seems weird, but auro is answering THIS question, go check if you think im misrepping.

I was saying those were CEPHRIR'S next three lynches. From what CEPHRIR said earlier. Why would I be "curious" about the third if it was MY preferred three lynches, Sherlock?

[Auro]

Why is he still putting gob into the lynchpool if he doesnt suspect him?

Acute observational skills. I've been pushing Gob like shit all game, yet, "Auro doesn't suspect him"

[Auro]

Everything else? You misrepped me and gave a lot of evidence that I townread Hop. Yes, I did townread Hop. 2298 wasn't my preferred three lynches, obviously. I was saying those were Cephrir's. Which part of this do you not understand?

[Auro]

Okay, this is absolutely dumb.

You cherry-picked a single post where I mention a lynch order, as a response to "What's Cephrir's three preferred lynches".
Every other post in my D2 ISO contradicts this lynch order.
Context cues show that I'm talking about Cephrir's lynches.

So what's the simpler hypothesis - that I am indeed talking about Ceph, or "AURO IS SCUM LOL!!!!"

[Auro]

Now before someone makes a dumbass argument saying "Auro is defensive again, surely he just be scum, natch!", I need four votes on Gobble. I have two from myself and Dann; Gobble and his partner won't lynch him obviously; so I need to convince 2/3 of the other slots.

[Auro]

Except why did you say you needed to find a lynch target between Gob/Me/Hop/FF if you thought that hop was pretty much not flipping scum?

I said we needed to find consensus, not a lynch target. And that means reaching an agreement on reads. Which extends to a consensus on "Hopkirk town" , which I was trying to achieve.

[Auro]

I was also open to being convinced against my Hop read - I "pretty much" thought he's town but I don't assume I'm 100% right ever.

[Auro]

I'll reword that. "Town should not be distracted by unnecessary paranoia; town must discuss and achieve consensus on the following generally scumread slots A, B, C, D".

My own reads on A, B, C, D aren't wholly relevant to the statement. It's a statement about how "we", i.e. town, should gamesolve together.

Does this help?

[Auro]

but i was certain on one thing during the later stages of the game: The fact that scum will want to control the narrative so afk players cant be scum, and auro + dann seemed to fit that to a tee.

viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81775
Look at D1 in the linked game. Scum lurked. People scumread the slot for it. People wagoned the slot. They still didn't attempt to control the narrative, and got lynched D1.

[Auro]

Overall, I'm still not too too concerned about this game

You should be. I'm being attacked for no legitimate reasons.

[Auro]

whoever is trying to make arguments about the nightkills being anything other than because they are universal obvious town reads are either scum or really bad town

Yes, I'm disappointed in both FF and Cheeky.

FF's 2844 is absolutely terrible. He basically lays out a big speculative post where scum!Auro kept FF alive to lynch, and then says I'm pushing him/want him dead, and that I'm scum for that. But where have I said FF dies today? Cheeky was the one saying that, I was saying Gobbles dies.

And Cheeky's response to this: "Voila". And her case is that I'm "parading" as town, and that I'm not dead yet. Says I must be reevaluating if town, I ask how, and no response. Dong also says I'm scum because "scum would try to control the narrative". This is shit logic, but I'm excusing it because Dong.

If they're town, this is pretty bad town play.

[Auro]

Dann, are you still townreading Cheeky?

[Auro]

What sucks is the Auro/Dann solve.

The worst part? While "you guys aren't dead" is a reason they're pushing this on, the night kills are terrible for an Auro+Dann scumteam. Dunn, who townread us. Ceph, who townread me and locked you.

But that's not a problem because we clearly just wanna WIFOM instead of taking the easy win, right?

[Auro]

VOTE: Cheeky let's go.

How many times have you self voted as town/scum before?

[Auro]

Dann is town. If he's scum, I'm fine letting him win this game.

[Auro]

Molla+FF can't be a team, right? From the late D1 wagons?