Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

Skitter is extremely townie saudade and I don't know why you'd think that of all people he is the one scum. Hm?

@ari I think I put a ??? There too, then I wasn't sure so I removed it, then forgot to go back to it

like you didn't get an answer from this even...

[RadiantCowbells]

his next mood swing will be to fos RCE for challenging him this time around

I like how ari chooses to engage with me unlike RCE who just brushes me off "hes a troll huurr durr and if he isnt well ill get back to it laterrr"

Oh shit, it's almost like I said I wasn't reading you today. Wild.

yes ignoring content is a bit weird hmmm??

Unless like, you know that I'm town already and dont feel like there's much point in talking to me to begin with

This is so weird, like two people who were completely fine with voting RC, decided to vote WITH RC

?!

I like how ari chooses to engage with me unlike RCE who just brushes me off "hes a troll huurr durr and if he isnt well ill get back to it laterrr"

All of this reads like partner associatives from Saudade.

Shos randomly going after RCE from L-1 then deciding that he was no longer scumreading them anymore when he was no longer at L-1 feels like partner associatives.

RCE defending Tris all day yesterday, calling Plum scum but never voting them until the short period it looked like me/Skitter were going to combined lead in Tris/Plum where he said he was fine with voting either, then reverting to townreading both at the start of day today and simultaneously going after me and saying "burn openwolf ari" keeping both of the major wagons open. The fact that he's trying to convince scum!me that scum is in the pool of people townreading him as opposed to scumreading him. The fact that he voted Shos at L-1 in a really offputting way and then unvoted to go back onto me as soon as Shos was no longer at L-1. To me there's just so much not to like there and unlike slots like Ari where there's some awful stuff but some good stuff as well there's just... nothing in RCE's ISO that to me says this person is not likely to be scum and a lot both associatively and generally that says that he, in fact, IS.

And him going after me for "voting people who scumread me" when the wagon was himself/Saudade/Mathblade when he knows that's a towntell for me is... all kind of yikes.

Also calling out TW for getting teamreads when Ank said Plum/RCE were scumreads.

Also Tris's "hmm I don't know about RCE" is very SvS indicative, don't ask for an explanation for ye shall receive none.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, Shos's not calling his counterwagon (me) scum as scum was a little strange to me and the biggest ? about calling him scum but it makes a ton more sense if both of his partners are already on the wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

And this way, all my townreads get to be right.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's no point in lynching RC today, Math. I'd want to. But there's no point.

Either he's town PR, and he dies tonight. Or he's scum, and we lynch him tomorrow.

Do you think it's better to get rid of him today?

So I'm probably not catching up fully tonight. Walking 3 miles to and from work is exhausting me.

But I do want to nip this in the bud.

This is what sets the foundation for a future narrative. Which is a world where RC doesn't die until end game because "scum are leaving him as a mislynch.".

RC never eats a nightkill this game because even as a claimed investigative his result is not credible. So it's on town to deal with. He is no longer self resolving.

I'm pushing there. I'll case it or whatever when I get the chance. Also burn openwolf Ari.

This is when we were going after Plum btw. Fine with both wagons, also pushing Me/Ari as SvS when I really don't think it made sense as a real viewpoint but it made a lot more sense from the point of view as scum who wants to have as much weight behind both potential mislynches they're pushing at the same time.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, RCE never was willing to consider the possibility of Math being scum today
Saudade never was willing to consider the possibility of Math being scum today.
Shos also entered and didn't say much about it but pretty handily discredited my Math scumread
Bella too I think never was willing to consider Math scum today
Xtoxm... hasn't really taken a stance on anything

Obviously Iconeum exists and has the ~inno~
Math is math

Of the remaining players
Teacher thought Math scum made more sense than me at some point.
Skitter was getting frustrated and pissed off and thought he might be scum.
Ari actually voted him at one point.
I went after Mathblade at one point.
Flopz discredited the likelihood of Math being the protect which again seems significantly likely to come from T than S in this situation.

I really think Math has the illusion that their play was obvtown and deserves to be townread because all the scum players were never considering him and is only hunting in the pool of people that went after him even thought that's the exact opposite of what's happening here.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think there's also very few scumteam possibilities that explain why Math was the nightkill and I think that one does
RCE wanted to go after me, Tris had previously said she was going to use BoP logic on me, that's 2 of them that want to go after me
Skitter hard TR RCE who is the deepwolf carry slot of the scumteam, and even if she was going to go after Tris/Plum at some point it would be very easy to read into her play that she was going to piledrive me today
I think that team would have considered Skitter nonthreatening enough while I'm alive and the cost-benefit of killing Math and making my mislynch as open as possible to be well worth leaving myself and Skitter alive, and I put RCE as a hard enough townread anyway that they're not exactly scared of getting guiltied by me either.

[RadiantCowbells]

The uncomfortable Xtoxm associatives imo could just as easily be borne out of 'hey this slot is gonna be a pretty easy mislynch at some point lets prime it' ig
Ari, well, I Don't really have an explanation for why his associatives ended up being so weird but I guess maybe he just looks weird this game and scum valued mislynching TW and discrediting me over lynching him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway that's enough for today
If everyone still has him as locktown beyond consideration I'll go back to see no evil speak no evil live no evil wrt RCE but I thought someone should say this.

[RadiantCowbells]

And honestly I think that not a single townie besides Math thinking that I'm scum here is more likely than Mathblade as well as another town team somehow scumreading me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Have you committed to a read on Tris or Plum yet, RCE?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok it's

-You're not reading Saudade today
-Plum isn't scum because RC is scum

[RadiantCowbells]

So, we can't get you to vote either of them today, but after I get lynched (if I get lynched) you keep your options open on your read on both. Gotcha.

[RadiantCowbells]

So, we can't get you to vote either of them today, but after I get lynched (if I get lynched) you keep your options open on your read on both. Gotcha.

If neither are mislynches from your pov then this is an awful take.

quite the opposite really. you're townread by basically everyone besides me. I have to go because I'm a massive thread, but once I'm gone you're free to bus and maintain your townread status.

[RadiantCowbells]

You'll disagree on his Ico read because he's adamant Ico is scum with RC based on play.

Are you just trying to say things so out there that people will assume that you're town because scum will never say them?

[RadiantCowbells]

Correct me if I'm wrong
but Bbmolla and Titus both presently agree that I'm town
DEB hasn't given a read on me as far as I'm aware
and your putting your read over both of theirs even though you have, without exception, scumread me in every one of our pasts games where I've been town?
Yes I'm bringing up the past here, it's absolutely relevant with regards to this situation.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh then the basically FL scumreads Icos iso, which I agreed with up until his plum push. But I'm not great at reading Ico. I think I've misread him every game we've played together as both alignments. So I was still considering it.

He also scumreads him on the basis that RC would be obscuring associates and RC/Skitter felt too blatant. Ergo the associatives would be simpler and less direct.

But I'll also go back and double check because that was a start of day read and I feel I'm misrepping it.

HOLD IT THERE

You're saying that Flavor Leaf, before Iconeum outed as having saved Mathblade, said that Iconeum made sense as scum with me?
But now, following Iconeum claiming protective on Mathblade (which should upend any read), Flavor Leaf has not given an updated read yet you're still giving it as if it's relevant?

That seems like something a town-aligned player would really really really not do!

[RadiantCowbells]

He still reads Ico as your partner. Read the posts man, this is like 3 posts in a row where you are twisting posts to mean something else.

You said this was a start of day read and you need to go back to read it. You also only cited things that happened during the first day regarding his read on us.

He also scumreads him on the basis that RC would be obscuring associates and RC/Skitter felt too blatant. Ergo the associatives would be simpler and less direct.

But I'll also go back and double check because that was a start of day read and I feel I'm misrepping it.

Referring to RC/Skitter<-> you said this was a start of day read for sure.

Oh then the basically FL scumreads Icos iso, which I agreed with up until his plum push. But I'm not great at reading Ico. I think I've misread him every game we've played together as both alignments. So I was still considering it.

This all happened D1.

So you said your read was a D1 read, you cited stuff happening D1, the only stuff you mentioned from D2 you explicitly said was a start of day read, and you make no commentary on anything that has happened since besides to follow up by saying that "oh FL still scumreads him". There's no way if this was a still scumreads him situation that your arguments wouldn't center around Ico's protective claim and my interactions with him and the surrounding claim because that's what is most relevant and important, not some random bullshit D1 or start of day.

[RadiantCowbells]

A modern RC-Ico read would absolutely center around the protective claim and some sort of argument regarding my willingness to fake claim stuff or have my buddies fakeclaim stuff.
It's not an impossible read to have and actually there's a lot that could, hypothetically, be said about that read but the arguments given are really vague and meaningless and all ignore the most relevant data point

[RadiantCowbells]

Math, do you really think that Flavor Leaf has a recent scumread that puts myself and Iconeum together and yet he has nothing to say about Iconeum claiming protective on you?

[RadiantCowbells]

That was FLs read. I don't think it's likely but I also don't think he knows about Ico's doc claim.

so, again, it was a much earlier read that you have presented to mathblade as still relevant despite a major data point that should affect the read, as I pointed out

[RadiantCowbells]

RCE: Flavor Leaf had this read earlier!!!
RC: That read is totally irrelevant at this stage of the game because Ico claimed doc and FL should have reevaluated after that point and there's no point presenting it as a useful read
RCE: RC IS MISREPPING ME OMG
RC: No, I'm not because xyz
RCE: No actually RC was right FL didn't reevaluate after Ico claimed doctor

[RadiantCowbells]

They'd have to make an enemy of me in the process. So damned if they do damned if they don't.

lol

because scum rc and scum skitter are in the slightest afraid of you...

[RadiantCowbells]

Math, do you really think that Flavor Leaf has a recent scumread that puts myself and Iconeum together and yet he has nothing to say about Iconeum claiming protective on you?

I think when RCE does the read hierarchy I asked for himself and Flavor Leaf the question will answer itself

The question already answered itself.

[RadiantCowbells]

Math, do you really think that Flavor Leaf has a recent scumread that puts myself and Iconeum together and yet he has nothing to say about Iconeum claiming protective on you?

I think when RCE does the read hierarchy I asked for himself and Flavor Leaf the question will answer itself

The question already answered itself.

[RadiantCowbells]

And you didn't ask that question

before

you asked him if the Ico read factored that in? Only after you got called out for it?
You didn't think from the receiving end of that logic "hey maybe I should ask FL if he knows that Ico claimed protective" until you had to try to argue the timing of the read?
c'mon. that's not actual sorting. that's just giving 'teamreads!' to seem towny.

[RadiantCowbells]

Math, do you really think that Flavor Leaf has a recent scumread that puts myself and Iconeum together and yet he has nothing to say about Iconeum claiming protective on you?

I think when RCE does the read hierarchy I asked for himself and Flavor Leaf the question will answer itself

The question already answered itself.

Then pretend it hasn’t for those slower than you and let RCE spew if you believe that.

I don’t see your point right now but maybe with the read hierarchies it will make sense

My point is this

RCE's new claim of the version of events is that FL gave a scumcase for Iconeum and me together that didn't at all factor in Iconeum having claimed doctor
Also in RCE's claimed version of events is that FL despite reading the current pages either 1) entirely missed the Ico doc claim or 2) didn't care about it

This contradicts his original version of events whereby he said that it was a start of day case and didn't present any evidence that involved that most important detail
but then when called out for presenting a start of day case after it's no longer relevant due to protection claim, he changed it to it was actually a recent read

but even if it's a recent read that makes the fact that FL has nothing to say about the Ico claim probably even more damning

[RadiantCowbells]

Math asked about what him and FL would agree/disagree on.

And you presented it as a relevant, current read, not a "hey FL mentioned this one thing but it's really out of date and I need to check up with it if its still true"
You had to be called out on it not really making sense before you started backtracking and coming up for new justifications for why it didn't make sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like FL not potentially knowing about a claimed save is

so fucking relevant to his read on iconeum

that if you were town you would not present FL's read on him unless you were sure he knew about it
you're claiming that there's reasonable doubt as to him knowing about it: you would not have told Math that FL had this read in a post-claim world if the read either came before or he didn't know about the read

your altered story makes just as little sense as town as the original: you don't care about whether your teammate's read accurately represents the current gamestate, you're just giving a teammate read for tcred.

[RadiantCowbells]

Not true, I stated the reasoning he gave for the connection wasn't fresh in my mind. Double checked and I was presenting it accurately.

1) no, this is not what you said. you clearly said it was a start of day read. but sure, let's pretend that not only did you incorrectly write it originally, but you're also calling me scum for having correctly read what you wrote incorrectly. why are you giving a read from a player on a player who made a claim that massively affects their town equity when you don't know if that player knows that claim without any sort of disclaimer, just a "hey you won't like this read but FL thinks X is Y." Why does your top scumread have to prompt you to put your read in context?

[RadiantCowbells]

Not true, I stated the reasoning he gave for the connection wasn't fresh in my mind. Double checked and I was presenting it accurately.

1) no, this is not what you said. you clearly said it was a start of day read. but sure, let's pretend that not only did you incorrectly write it originally, but you're also calling me scum for having correctly read what you wrote incorrectly. why are you giving a read from a player on a player who made a claim that massively affects their town equity when you don't know if that player knows that claim without any sort of disclaimer, just a "hey you won't like this read but FL thinks X is Y." Why does your top scumread have to prompt you to put your read in context?

[RadiantCowbells]

Who all is V/LA? It only shows Ari and I want to ask him about a couple things but stalling the game out until the 10th is shitty.

VOTE: Xtoxm

Maybe my worst fears came true and the scumteam is RC/TW/Xtoxm.

Xtoxm votes would be cool.

rce can you hit me up with a readslist real quick?

Without a ton of explaining probably:

{Skitter Tris teacher}

{RC}

{Math*}

{Bella, flopz, Ico}

{Xtoxm, plum, Ari}

* Mostly a teamread and the way RC has interacted with Math and vice versa kind of reinforces the way the read was explained to me. But I'm null to scum leaning them personally.

Pretty sure Xtoxm is scum btw. The pop in to call Ico scum for pushing an easy mislynch but doing nothing to make himself a harder lynch doesn't feel like a town!Xtoxm move especially in the team mafia setting.

Xtoxm I still want to murder you. Ama?

Waiting on Xtom too.

There's a wild Xtoxm lurking that wants to see the world burn so I won't l-1 but consider this intent to hammer.

OH MY GOD THIS IS EVEN WORSE

YOU JUST SAID YOUR TEAM TOLD YOU PREGAME THAT XTOXM WOULD HARD LURK WITH ME IN THE GAME

YET YOU PUSHED HIM AS SCUM THE ENTIRE FUCKING DAY 1 FOR IT???

[RadiantCowbells]

YOU DONE MESSED UP A A RON

NOW TAKE YO ASS DOWN TO O SHAG HENNESSY'S OFFICE

[RadiantCowbells]

take

yo ass

down

to

o

shag

henessy's

office

before i bust a club

up in yo butt

[RadiantCowbells]

Again false, I said he didn't want to deal with you.

and... he didn't

and you called him scum for it despite knowing that

[RadiantCowbells]

RC are you going to push RCE right now and blow up your Saude wagon?

If not what is your purpose behind this push here?

winning the game on d2 as opposed to relying on other players correctly sorting the game after d2.
if I was scum pushing a mislynch why would I care about trying to set up future mislynches when I know I'm going down after saudade anyway
if I'm town pushing a scum lynch and I want other townies to know who else is scum in the future, I absolutely care about calling out who the rest of the scum are

does that make sense to you

[RadiantCowbells]

RCEnigma pushed Xtoxm as scum for all of D1 despite his team having told him pre-game he has a tendency to lurk in games with me b/c he doesn't like me
And he doesn't once reference in thread that, i dunno, maybe this ~alternate reason exists~ and he doesn't try to like suss out from him whether or not he's lurking because of this alternative reason?

that is such a load of crap. lol

[RadiantCowbells]

even just fucking reading xtoxm iso every indication is that his lurking has something to do with me. it's unmistakable.
and RCEnigma is claiming that he did, in fact, have access to the information that xtoxm is liable to lurk until I'm dead and pushes him for it anyway despite like
even without having that background information it's kind of obvious that my being in the game has

something

to do with it so connecting those dots isn't exactly hard?
and make no mistake it's a lurker lynch case, "doesn't make himself easier to townread", "wild xtoxm lurking", etc.

[RadiantCowbells]

It does only to a point.

You realized I have stopped pushing anyone right?

Because me pushing is destructive to the main point I want to make.

If you think Saude is scum, mentioning others are scum may split your wagon up.
I get the desire to solve it, but I think it’d be better served elsewhere

You’re not going to get RCE to exclaim he’s scum.

I am going to show your argument to Titus to see if she gets it but it seems like a misread at minimum to me. I think you’re hurting your Saude wagon.

I don't care about hurting my Saudade wagon. I win by lynching 3 scum, not 1. And I believe that I can get the Saudade lynch through regardless.

[RadiantCowbells]

rcenigma was the only scum slot that could endgame and he just outed himself. he's going to FL to try and get some random bullshit idea to try to get out of this but the game really just ended on the last 3 pages.

[RadiantCowbells]

math. do you think it's even remotely imaginable that RCEnigma with the information from his teammates pushes Xtoxm the whole game for lurking despite knowing a reason why and not asking Xtoxm pointed questions about it
especially when Xtoxm started by voting me, his longest post was about how "well I'm going to wait to deal with RC until later", and not once does rce mention that there is a potential reason for xtoxm lurking...

[RadiantCowbells]

rcenigma was the only scum slot that could endgame and he just outed himself. he's going to FL to try and get some random bullshit idea to try to get out of this but the game really just ended on the last 3 pages.

If the game ended who is number three?

Shos/Saudade/RCEnigma

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry I'm basically just repeating myself on the Xtoxm point but it's so incredibly damning. The dated FL read was really bad but this really is a smoking gun that his main scumread was on someone for something he knew was NAI

[RadiantCowbells]

Math my team really wants you to get Titus and Deb to look into sorting RC. We all strongly believe RC to be scum here. FL is doubling down on Ico scum here.

RC not considering Ico scum when RC ended the day as claimed detective AND having the save end up elsewhere is suspicious. It seems likely Math is being setup as the conf!town patsy here to get him on scums side. A deep pocket.

i'm actually dying here

[RadiantCowbells]

iconeum isn't a townread slot because of the claimed save. i have repeatedly expressed my surprise at the version of events that led Mathblade to be the save.
I even considered the possibility that the save was fake, and discarded it because, again, Iconeum is towny.

acting like it's somehow strange that I believe the claimed protective when I, duckling, and pretty much every town player agrees that they're towny is amazing

[RadiantCowbells]

is this really the hill that flavor leaf is having you die on rce

[RadiantCowbells]

also you know what the most incredible part of that claim is? that you are saying that you actually got something_smart to read a 246 page to give a read on me

Why shos when most if not all of your posts say shos is town?

I was on the fence about Shos. Even when I jumped off I said it was like 50% chance that they were Saudade's scumbuddy. I switched from a 50% scumlynch to an 100%.
Did I focus on my reasoning for Shos town when I tried to get people to vote Saudade? Yes, of course I did. That's how you get the lynch that you want after all.

But when both of them are absolutely refusing to consider the other as scum and neither of them have given a reason the other is town and me and Skitter have had the two of them pinned as scumpartners since, like, a few pages into the game, I know when it's time to start calling a spade a spade.

[RadiantCowbells]

btw this was another reason I scumread duck. I couldn't get my team outside of NSG to properly read the game and i tried very hard. Bitmap and Fire only read a few pages, GIF read like 1 page.
Duck claimed that he got all his team members to read the game and that seemed strange how toxic it was and I scumread it at the time given most slots were complaining about how their team weren't giving reads

Turns out I was wrong. And I guess given it was Ank EC and Dannflor it's somewhat believable even if I'm still pretty sure Dannflor never read the part where I actually voted TW because he'd have TR me for it
But uh, he's saying that Something_smart took the time to read a 246 page game to read a person that he will explicitly tell anyone he has no clue whatsoever how to read.

that's bullshit.

[RadiantCowbells]

SS actually hasn't read this game at all. The discussion about this game is myself/jingle/FL, so fair enough.

and once again
you said all of your team, ie including SS
i pointed out how something you posted didn't make any sense at all
you backtracked on it
not before you got called out on how it didn't make sense, after.

That team never kills me though.

I think one if not more of those are wrong.

Disagree and I explained my reasons for it. That team actually sees very little value in killing either myself or Skitter relative to other teams and since 2 of them are on a trajectory to vote me it sees a lot of value in killing you simply for the "Mathblade said kill RC if he died" value.

[RadiantCowbells]

and despite me repeatedly knowing what the holes in what you're saying are from a town perspective and you correcting what you're posting after prompted by me
you aren't even slightly fazed by the fact that I am somehow predicting exactly what your team would be saying as town vs as scum before you actually say what it is

that's the point where a townie starts to wonder hmm maybe this person is actually legitimately reading me and seeing legitimate holes in my arguments. but you're scum who has to call me scum, so do your thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

minute things?

the fact that you knew a player was liable to lurk because of my presence in a game and you pushed them as scum the whole game without referencing that, is that a minute thing?
the fact that you outed a read that was clearly not based on current thread activity and had to be called out on it before you started backtracking and adjusting the claim, is that a minute thing?
the fact that you claimed your entire team had a read and I had to point out "ok so why in the fuck is SS reading a game and giving a read on someone he can't read" before you backtracked, is that a minute thing?

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

I think me and Titus being disconnected is like, the definition of me and Titus in the same game?? When do we ever agree on reads

Yes it's minute because him taking issue with you doesn't magically make him town. I can hold that read with or without that information.

Yes because SS does not constitute our whole team. So even if he said guys RC is town that's still 1 of 4 opinions. How does SS reading or not reading matter in the slightest.

No one said that you couldn't NOT TOWNREAD xtoxm. But your top scumread is someone who is lurking because of something you know is NAI? And you don't mention that? realllly

because you said your whole team gave a read. your whole team includes SS. myself, Jingle, and FL does not mean the same thing as my whole team.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, I will say that I think that RCE/Teacher is actually an associative read that makes a ton of sense. I think that Teacher is town in spite of that because he has townier posts.
But I have at points in the game had that associative scumread and I can quote that if it helps you to townread me to know that I've seen at least some of the same stuff your team has seen.

[RadiantCowbells]

Gonna hard disagree there Raybells
Been saying my whole team all game even though it excludes Dr Easy Bake

Ok

I'm willing to concede on this point because I think the other two are far more incontrovertible and salient
I think the fact that I needed to call him out to have him retract the SS claim is meaningful, but it's definitely the weakest of those 3 points.

[RadiantCowbells]

I thought Teacher's D1 was, no offense, scummy as ass but he has posted a ton of stuff on D2 that I think almost never comes from scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

he was your top scumread on D1. you put him at the bottom of your readslist and were voting him for a plurality of the day and kept shading him during RC vs TW.
if you want to get into a tizzy about whether he was your *top scumread* when you spent most of the day calling him scum for lurking which you knew was NAI, you've already lost.

If SS has no reads on the game then there isn't a need to include him. Anyway, my whole team scumreads you. So tell me how bad my reads + FLs reads +Jingles reads are.

Why would I do that though? you're just scum. why should I give you an out after I flip

[RadiantCowbells]

I knew he didn't want to deal with RC specifically but I don't know why he chose to detach from the game completely instead of just ignore RC.

So there is a need to determine if he's lurking as scum or as town. I can't just ask him right?

Guess who is on your team who would have been the one who mentioned this? Jingle, because Jingle was in Fire On The Mountain.
What did Xtoxm do in Fire On The Mountain? Lurk the entire day 1 and day 2 because he didn't want to play with me.

Jingle is fully aware of this meta, and as the only person who is aware of this meta in concrete terms, he would have told you to expect this in no uncertain terms if the topic came up.

[RadiantCowbells]

this is fire on the mountain, for anyone curious exactly where I'm drawing this meta from.

[RadiantCowbells]

No one else had any interest in sorting him. So I'm not going to press on with a wagon no one even cares about.

but... this is what you did? you spent most of the day wagoning him. what is the point that you are trying to make?
And you weren't framing it as a sorting or getting information from him wagon, you were explicitly calling him scum and citing as evidence the fact that he's lurking / not defending himself.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RCE @RC

What do you both make of this?

I don't know what to make of it at this time. I think it is more likely right now that Xtoxm is town than scum due to outside factors.

But I know better than to scumread Xtoxm for townreading RCE when everyone else in the game seemed to be townreading RCE.

[RadiantCowbells]

@RCE @RC

What do you both make of this?

I don't know what to make of it at this time. I think it is more likely right now that Xtoxm is town than scum due to outside factors.

But I know better than to scumread Xtoxm for townreading RCE when everyone else in the game seemed to be townreading RCE.

See my gut says you’re just attacking the townblock of me Ico and RCE.

But at the same time I don’t know if that’s because you’re scum or just way off base.

I just don’t see RCE scum here

I think that you're not trying to read him if you don't have a problem with everything he's posted on the last few pages tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

If Xtoxm let RC have his way in either of these 1v1s with him and didn't express that I never take this line as scum, it would be a scumclaim. Its why he's nulltown for me.

What is this read supposed to even mean?

And why would you never take this line of play as scum, lol.

[RadiantCowbells]

Man Flopz I have no idea how other people scumread you tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not a read I was interested in pushing and don't know how caught up he was in my game so not really.

Ok, but this isn't how you presented it until I called you out on it not making sense, and you had to backtrack on your stance not once but twice after being called out.

[RadiantCowbells]

That was FLs read. I don't think it's likely but I also don't think he knows about Ico's doc claim.

so, again, it was a much earlier read that you have presented to mathblade as still relevant despite a major data point that should affect the read, as I pointed out

He saw there's a wagon on saudade, so I assume he's read some of the recent pages. I asked if he knows about the protective claim because he still scumreads ico. So idk what all he's read.

If you're adding FLs reads as a reason to scumread me then... Cool. But I don't care.

Let's operate under the assumption this was a current read, you didn't ask why he still thought that?

I like this question

oh my god did we just agree on something in real time this is amazing

[RadiantCowbells]

it's okay everyone this game is a wrap we're done

me and skitter managed to townread each other and mathblade and i agreed on something

team mafia is over

[RadiantCowbells]

@Implo you can call game now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that you really didn't understand how I was presenting it if you really don't see a problem and maybe Flopz can communicate in a language you can appreciate better.

Flopz, pls explain why RCE's approach to Xtoxm was a problem for me

[RadiantCowbells]

Flopz: The Mathblade Whisperer

It would mean you were town here. You've seen my interactions with town!you/ scum!me. Even when we bumped heads in 2058 it was way different. We've interacted as every different alignment and this isn't comparable to magical girls at all. We both know that.

I mean, we literally didn't interact in magical girls. At no point was I interested in going after you. I always had a stronger scumread than you and I considered you a PoE slot that I had no immediate impetus to go after. I was willing to lynch you on D2 because Sakura Hana who I respect thought that you were scum. You flipped scum.

You should know that that was an extremely unusual game for me-you interactions for that reason so comparing to it... really doesn't make sense?
Like the claim that because you didn't go after me when I was one of the few people who didn't hard scumread you means you would never go after me is lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Math asked me about my teammates take. So I told him that was the read that Math would disagree with.

Why do you, as town, choose to start with the least relevant read where you're not sure if he is up-to-date on?
On the contrary I think that, as scum, starting with a super spicy read is something that you would do because it makes you feel townier to give original, against the grain reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

We (or at least myself) were playing around yeah. So yes we didn't interact for that reason.

Unless you think my stance on you 180'd between them and now I don't think town!you finds my push here scum indicative.

I think that comparing a game where I was hydraed with the single hardest town player on this website to mislynch to one where I'm playing solo and many people scumread me is disingenuous as fuck.

[RadiantCowbells]

The only recent reads are on you saudade and Ico. I gave all three.

Yet your first read, the one that you started with, was the read on Flavor Leaf.

You weren't sure it was up to date, you weren't sure if he knew about Iconeum's protective claim, and you still thought it was the read you should give first. Why?

[RadiantCowbells]

I haven't played scum against you anywhere else.

So what you're saying is that there's no actual meta on how you would respond to a mislynchable RC in a game and you have to resort to comparing apples and oranges?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ugh. Another fun 1v1 “caught!scum” go round with RC. Is this like round 6? (math/flopz/ari/duck/skitter/math/RCE/am I missing any??)

Honestly I could give af at this point. This game sucks, and the thread is unreadable. Hope you’re proud.

Can you actually read this please.

Just the last 5 pages.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am absolutely not policy lynching Saudade.

Do you remember what Skitter30 said about Saudade's meta? Literally the fact that you think that his play is something that I would want to policy lynch is the

reason

that we think he's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

So let's say I came out with Xtoxm is lurking because he doesn't want to play with RC. But he won't play if he isn't wagoned so let's get some votes going.

You can see how that makes the slots pushing there disingenuous and a poor analysis point. It also still doesn't guarantee Xtoxm plays because a wagon generated like that doesn't stick at all.

The fact that it took you this long to come up with this is all kind of yikes. If this was your thought process, it would have been the first thing you said.
Even though this logic is generally believable, this actually contradicts the previous arguments you gave and I'm pretty sure you said this now because FL told you it was your only out.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would prefer not to change my vote until I talk to Skitter btw. Trust me to see it if she's SvS with RCE and I want to work with her in any other situation here.

RC said I wasn't trying to sort him.

You came up with 3 different, contradictory explanations for your Xtoxm push before you came up with this one.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is not another 180 by the way. I have been saying RCE is scum the entire day. Every time I put him town in a readslist I have said "this is all my reads EXCEPT THAT I am only going off of other people's townreads on RCE."

This is just me finally having enough confidence in the read to start pushing it instead of just being meh I don't want to go against crowd consensus on it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will absolutely agree that, from D2 onwards, I think that RCEnigma's argument that he's "trying to sort Xtoxm" holds water.
The problem is it doesn't at all align with his treatment of Xtoxm on D1.

He also claims that he gave up wagoning it even though he kept bringing it up over and over again right up to end of day
One of the pushes on him did read like it could reasonably be a sorting wagon, but both his placement at bottom of readslist and treatment outside of that strongly indicates legitimate scumread

and i think that if he were town at least some reference to that meta would exist in the game. it's not something you entirely ignore.

[RadiantCowbells]

It is a 180 - you’re pairing him with shos whose wagon you derailed by calling town. I agree you haven’t been strong on RC but it’s a sudden flip/reversal of the shiny new target and I’m just about done with it. It is once again pushing at cohesion. It’s not that what you say doesn’t have validity - it does - but it’s once again shifting wagons and changing pushes and I’m surprised you’d portray it as anything other than that when you’re also basically saying the last five pages have solved/ended the game. If the latter is true, it’s a reversal from what came before those pages.

Ok.

Can you actually go back and follow my overall progression on Shos because I think it's clear that I was still considering him as scum, just a lower equity scum lynch?
I can see why you would think that in terms of a -thread direction- point of view and I myself am still not keen on voting for RCE because Tris to me is the lockscum slot of the game

But I think that it entirely lines up with my thread trajectory in a way that it wouldn't necessarily have to for me to be town, but.

If you're going off the multiquote from RC there are reach outs for Xtoxm to interact with me or the thread. But context isn't important in mafia.

Yes, there were. But you knew that he wasn't going to take your reach out because I was in the game. And still decided to call him scum for not taking it.

[RadiantCowbells]

When I said I didn't want to answer why I townread Shos
My answer was really "I don't" but I wanted to see how he posted from there on out.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry if I'm making this hard for you teacher.

[RadiantCowbells]

FL is leaning Ico scum.

Btw I never quoted this, but I actually remembered exactly when this read was given and that's how I knew it was a dated read.
Wouldn't have if I was scum because I simply wouldn't have read his ISO enough to have all this little stuff memorized.

[RadiantCowbells]

Jingle has lost two games to scum!me this year and had me locktown by play in one and locktown mechanically in the other so he's not who you should go to for advice on me btw.
They're scum as a team anyway, but if they were town Jingle is still not the correct answer. He also hard defended caughtscum deepwolf Volpe in 2070 :3

Nah man. Shouldn’t have come in here. Tonight was actually the best one - most substantive and least ad hominem - just fucking over this game. Never been in a 250 game, and really need to have an angel tel me your alignment so I can make sense of the thread. I feel like your the sun in that the game revolves around you (understandable given posting levels), but makes it hard to solve when I don’t know whether the sun is good or bad.

If it helps at all (it probably won't) I townread you and this and your last post just made that go from like 90% to 99%.

[RadiantCowbells]

And the criteria on that 1% is Volpe being here and writing posts for you in real time that are already pseudo paraphrased that you can paraphrase into normal sounding english. Shrug.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wish me you and skitter mutually townread each other because that would make this game a phenomenal amount easier for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're referring to Skitter. If she is still reluctant to push RC after my flip then yeah she is probably scum.

This, uh, feels like an incredibly fake read and the opposite of what you should be posting if you're town?
If we're SvS she's definitely going to end up hardbussing me at some point if I'm pushing the mislynches, why give her out to do it AND get townread for it

Speaking of skitter where is she?

And I bet it would but her read progression on me is crap. Doesn’t make sense for a townie to have.

V/LA on the weekend.

[RadiantCowbells]

I missed the most important part of 6245 by the way; the fact that he said that if she lynches me in a situation where she as SvS with me wants to be lynching me she is town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Seriously RCEnigma what's your thought process behind that? Do we want to be tying ourselves together from here to endgame if we're SvS?
2 mislynches from one scum slot is plenty and Skitter is more than capable enough to get herself to endgame off of my scumflip.

Why would her going after me make her more likely to be town than if she didn't, and why is she scum in the first place when you already hard townread her ISO?

Uhm...
I don’t think you read that right

He said after his town flip if Skitter doesn’t scumread you she is scum.

That's the point. Why can't Town!Skitter be hard pocketed? Why doesn't Scum!Skitter want to bus me?

[RadiantCowbells]

It's extremely level 0 reasoning, the kind that scum often give because it sounds good and reasonable until you actually pick it apart.

[RadiantCowbells]

Good point from Flopz: The early interactions from RCEnigma to Xtoxm are purely calling him scum. He doesn't interact with him in an at all sorty manner until post 1742.

Math will put it together after I flip. At least confident at the moment he will.

Is this, like, you giving up on trying to present a thought process that makes sense?

[RadiantCowbells]

1737 fuck numbers are hard did my best oh well

[RadiantCowbells]

you are getting a 10/10 from me

[RadiantCowbells]

eh maybe a 9/10

i want to give skitter and only skitter a 10/10 sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

If RCE is town then I whole expect Skitter to bus you or the RC+Skitter theory is probably paydirt but in that world we flip you first every time

yes exactly. we both came to the same conclusion because it's the obvious one, skitter is going to destroy me tomorrow if we're both scum and i push a mislynch today
whereas if she's town and she's been wrong all this way into the game, why is she necessarily supposed to fix that read now?

what i want you to ask yourself is why does rce think differently? is it because he's thinking super multilevel or is it because he's just scum giving a lazy read that looks ok at first glance

[RadiantCowbells]

I don’t follow you and I gotta go

You’re agreeing with RCE yet calling it lazy.

Sorry bro. Just don’t follow

i'm saying that you and i both agree that it's far more likely that scum skitter hardbusses scum rc if i push a mislynch. I think it's also reasonable that if skitter is wrongtown so far she's still wrongtown
and yet RCE casually throws out a "no no no if Skitter defends RC she's scum and if she doesn't she's town.

anyway. this is great. I'm glad that I have sold everyone on RCE scum but I actually still am way more confident on Tris/Saudade and since I'm being BoPed on this lynch I want my confident read

i just wanted people to stop townreading RCE when they shouldn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

{Teacher, Flopz, RC, Mathblade, Iconeum, Skitter}
{Bellaphant}
{Xtoxm, Aristophanes} -null line
{RCE}
{Shos}
{Saudade}

my present reads

[RadiantCowbells]

don't interpret that wrongly

bellaphant is still town like 85-90% of the time even though the tier below her is null

just that now everyone else is so confidently town that she really deserves to be below them? kinda? Idk

[RadiantCowbells]

i would never vote her despite her being a tier below. simply that i expect to be shat on less if i'm wrong on her than being wrong on the original 6

[RadiantCowbells]

i guess mathblade, despite being the save, belongs in that tier as well. but i'm not going to actually consider that because it's ~not my problem baby~

[RadiantCowbells]

and I think xtoxm is kinda the key to solving the game

because if he's scum that says a lot about what the scumteam is doing (it would essentially have to be like {saudade, ari, xtoxm} as I called out as a potential team before)
whereas if he's not, scum is probably just all the people calling him scum for no real reason {shos saudade rce}
maybe there's some room for {shos saudade aristophanes} as well?

maaaybe {shos saudade xtoxm} but that really doesn't feel likely based on Saudade's interactions that seem to suggest exactly 1/2 of {Ari/RCE} is his buddy

you'll note that there is 1 intersection here and that's saudade which is who I want to vote for obviously

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm going to be really fucking salty if shos somehow ends up being town despite just, like, not making any effort to dispel thoughts that he's SvS with Saudade. lol

[RadiantCowbells]

actually

ig there is a universe where shos and rce are both town but xtoxm is scum in that world

and i'm like... amazed at both of them

[RadiantCowbells]

Flopz, Teacher, can you join me on Saudade?

[RadiantCowbells]

Shos, if you're town, I would really appreciate it if you would look past your townread on Saudade and vote him because you are making this game impossible for town if you're town
In the end it's gonna be him or me and if you're townreading me you should want it to be him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Math, IDC if you think that I'm SvS with Saudade after he flips scum, but I do need you to vote there.

RCE is more -this shouldn't go to lylo- than -this must absolutely die today- to me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think we've all gotten a ton out of this phase, I think it's time to end it, and I don't think RCE is the right wagon to end it on.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is me explicitly disavowing any characterization of Saudade as a policy lynch and thus any ability to talk my way out of it by saying "grr i just wanted him 2 die bcuz person scumreading me make me mad"

[RadiantCowbells]

If Saudade flips scum and I die, can you agree to work with Skitter tomorrow even if you scumread her

[RadiantCowbells]

tw
ico
math
skitter
rce
bella
ari/teacher
flopz/plum/tris/xtoxm
rc

btw, if you flip duck's read on me/RCE, and use their reads before they re-evaluated their reads based off the assumption that the wagon on them was scum motivated
all you have to do is move teacher and Flopz up (which given that most of my reasons to townread them are based on D2 not D1 makes sense) and you end up with the same PoE that I have
this is also the exact same PoE general PoE that I had presented way, way back when Duckling originally called me scum although I had already cleared Teacher/Flopz out by then?

i've been called out for having a lot of townreads but i think there are actually just a lot of people in this game who are easy to townread and we should win bc of that
still kinda confused at them going after me when my poe at the time was them + 4 of their lynchpool and they randomly sheeped my townreads when they started scumreading me but...
okay, unless they thought that the scumteam was rc/flopz/teacher

[RadiantCowbells]

omg hi

[RadiantCowbells]

and bye

[RadiantCowbells]

You should read it

We're still lunching Saudade though

[RadiantCowbells]

No rush to read it

I really just did that whole thing for in case I die tonight.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pls not Shos

I'm actually not sure this is scum and the gamestate is going to be hell if we flip town

You can trust me on Saudade

[RadiantCowbells]

If RC is town it’s likely RCE + prob teacher (mainly Titus read) + maaaaaybe shos (personal townread just trying to find third)

I really really don't think this is it and you're going to tunnel me if we lynch a townie today so I need us to lynch scum today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Shos is at least trying

Saudade has 0 scumhunting in his iso, Tris has 0 scumhunting in her iso, and you're looking past it because he's calling you town

[RadiantCowbells]

Until we flip scum off of my reads my reads have 0 credibility and I'm certain on both my overall game solve and my Saudade read but we lunch Shos and he flips town the lobby turns on me tomorrow and we're stuck in lylo with no flipped scum and the strong townies all dead.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm telling you that if you derail onto Shos and they flip town which I think is about a coinflip town loses the game. There's already a bunch of votes on Saudade, we have Bella's implicit support, we literally just need one person to switch and hammer.

I don't think Shos is any worse than RCE but Saudade is clearly scum

Saud does. In his opinion He found you.

Reasons presented: none.
Reasons presented to townread Shos: none.
Reasons presented to scumread Skitter: none.

Saudade/Tris have done nothing outside of mediocre scum player range and as me and Skitter have told you repeatedly the fact that Saudade is being a whiny obnoxious git is straight up his scum meta. He'd be different as town. I've played with town him twice, I did not enjoy his presence but he wasn't even close to this.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've been saying we're killing Saudade for at least the last couple of days and nothing has changed. Just because I'm calling out other people for scummy shit

Saud is still the biggest wagon

[RadiantCowbells]

I have info your team just doesn't on
Saudades meta
My alignment
Skitters alignment.

You're extrapolating from incorrect or missing data points

Trust me Saudade is -the- guaranteed scum flip

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm telling you that if you derail onto Shos and they flip town which I think is about a coinflip town loses the game. There's already a bunch of votes on Saudade, we have Bella's implicit support, we literally just need one person to switch and hammer.

I don't think Shos is any worse than RCE but Saudade is clearly scum

Saud does. In his opinion He found you.

Reasons presented: none.
Reasons presented to townread Shos: none.
Reasons presented to scumread Skitter: none.

Saudade/Tris have done nothing outside of mediocre scum player range and as me and Skitter have told you repeatedly the fact that Saudade is being a whiny obnoxious git is straight up his scum meta. He'd be different as town. I've played with town him twice, I did not enjoy his presence but he wasn't even close to this.

That argument is 90% of most slots RC. (Hyperbole)

No one can talk with your playstyle

By that argument XtomX is a better lynch.

Literally only 2 slots have no meaningful content

Saudade and Xtoxm

The difference is Xtoxm has nai reasons and Saudade is straight up playing to his scum meta

[RadiantCowbells]

The fact that you think it's policy because of his behavior is the very reason that he's scum; simply put he would not be a slot that you would consider a policy lynch as town but he behaves like this as scum

[RadiantCowbells]

When Shos flips town you're going to go after me not Saudade

I can't take that chance because you all can't townread me no matter what I do.

If you wanted me to approach this game differently you'd have to have townread me and I would need to feel safe flipping town to narrow down my PoE and still being listened to / not lynched

I am not unvoting Saudade.

[RadiantCowbells]

its all about surivvaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal

what i don't get is

how anyone reads these posts and is like

"yeah this guy is town and i want to prevent his lynch today"

[RadiantCowbells]

i am pretty damn certain that if saudade was town this lynch would be easier to push given that it's effectively 2 mislynches in one go on him then me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Tbh I'm always partial to a Sausage vote. I saw talk of Scum Saudade cranking his obnoxiousness to 11 and from what I've seen of his previous behaviour this does seem to be somehow be the case. (The fact that you can keep going so high will forever astound me)
VOTE: Saudade
Shift in vote is also based on the voting behaviours of my TR's (mainly Math, Ico and RC).

flopz ngl your votes all kinda scare me, they seem to be just jumping onto the latest bandwagon, and this is at least the third or fourth time you've done it

have you played with saudade before or

I don't necessarily think that this is a scumtell from a newer player; a lot of newbies kind of just sheep bandwagons and assume that town knows their shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't know what to say to that; i'm town and i read him as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

i get it. i just don't know how to fix the issue.

[RadiantCowbells]

i just... have a lot better ways of navigating the gamestate if i'm svs with flopz than whatever i'm doing right now regardless of who my buddy is?

i mean this is kinda reinforcing shos' point but ok

xtoxm not doing anything the whole game is kinda ... not good

i agree and honestly i think i was right the first time on saudade/xtoxm based on saudade trying to force that interaction and how xtoxm reacted to the forced interaction

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't really have an answer outside of i'm town and that's how i'm reading him.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think i have had plenty of interactions in plenty of my town games with newbies that are very similar to this where i hard townread them from early on and they townread me for it.
if we're talking purely about flopz you can also consider cases like datisi in that newbie where i was scum

point is that you're paranoid about me because you've seen my scum game for years and know what i can do. flopz hasn't. why wouldn't flopz townread me here?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey guys
VOTE: NO LYNCH
VOTE: xtomx

Any of these can work

why the fuck are you so insistent on defending saudade to the point that you're willing to NL over him

[RadiantCowbells]

i honestly am not dealing well with skitter turning on me again tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

ok skitter

i won't take back anything i've said but i'll agree to not go after him for the duration of the game.

i've said the most that i can.

[RadiantCowbells]

i really don't think he should be an endgame slot over any of my townreads and i expect him to be if i let it happen

i don't really have interest in lynching him today but i have way better reasons to townread everyone else and he's playing very pro-scum atm

[RadiantCowbells]

skitter i'm town and when i have support from other players it changes the game from an emotionally draining slog to actually worth playing and i express that

if i'm town here (and I am) how exactly am i supposed to allay this concern besides by saying no i am not scum with slopz

[RadiantCowbells]

there's literally no one in this game doing anything remotely close to "blanket townreading rc" besides for Aristophanes and even that is heavily in question

how is skitter blanket townreading me when she just called me potentially SvS with flopz? How is Bella blanket townreading me when she said if any of her scumreads are wrong I'm scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

btw

every single one of the slots listened in 6405 scumreads saudade.

wonder what saudade is gonna flip and what that says about xtoxm's alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

btw

every single one of the slots listened in 6405 scumreads saudade.

wonder what saudade is gonna flip and what that says about xtoxm's alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

i said i understand why you see it, i don't know how to help you to see otherwise.

[RadiantCowbells]

skitter what exactly do i do that i haven't already done that makes you stop being worried that i'm scum and scared to trust my trs bc of it

[RadiantCowbells]

here is another way of putting it

I have a lot of experience being generally listened to and townread by slots like Flopz and getting reads on them.

Most people don't have that kind of experience in that situation

So in situations like Org 13 mafia with TTH/Antihero I pegged Nacho as town super quickly via the way he was interacting with me whereas most of the town just saw someone vote hopping on big wagons led by me to avoid responsibility

They were my top townread and got lynched and flipped town after I got nightkilled.

I don't think scum newb or otherwise is happy to just vote the people I'm voting and not like make a big thing out of why they're doing it

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC

you say saudude is hard into his scum meta

I agree

But I say his scum meta is hard bussing in a tunnel on his partner

Agree/disagree?

I know for a fact that I'm town, so

[RadiantCowbells]

No dude that's not a slip at all

Townreading me and believing in my claim is not a scumslip

[RadiantCowbells]

If Shos is scum Sau is 100% scum as well

Sau could be scum with Shos being town though so Sau is superior lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

That's a phrasing quirk not a slip

[RadiantCowbells]

No, Shos townreading me doesn't mean he checked me and confirmed me and no him saying that detective and cop don't coexist isn't a slip either.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because he thinks that I'm town.

I also at the start of the day was like hey there's a reasonably good shot that scum no killed based on my role, I'm not going to scumread someone for following the exact same train of thought that I did.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ur memes ain't shit

My memes dunk on ur memes

Wanna go?

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you get her to explain the skitter townread in her own words and then you paraphrase it for me, if possible?

[RadiantCowbells]

Happy birthday!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

@ico that's basically where i stand. i don't really have a reason to townread shos/plum.
but he's taking some... really really strange stances and I think that unlike RCE who can afford to get away with calling you scum to try to towntell he really isn't in the best position
like i would expect scum in that slot to not be making enemies with myself, math, and you all at the same time

and like on an intellectual level i still see why plum would be scum but i've never stopped being uncertain about it emotionally

i don't think they should go to endgame without a better reason to townread them but i think they're a really unsafe lynch today

[RadiantCowbells]

@ico that's basically where i stand. i don't really have a reason to townread shos/plum.
but he's taking some... really really strange stances and I think that unlike RCE who can afford to get away with calling you scum to try to towntell he really isn't in the best position
like i would expect scum in that slot to not be making enemies with myself, math, and you all at the same time

and like on an intellectual level i still see why plum would be scum but i've never stopped being uncertain about it emotionally

i don't think they should go to endgame without a better reason to townread them but i think they're a really unsafe lynch today

[RadiantCowbells]

Not gonna quote because phoneposting but the interactions between RC and RCE on 244~ actually make me think RC is scum. It looks like he's twisting words in a fashion that I do when I'm scum. Will not vote until comp and a good read because I realized he might be a leading wagon

248 presents a good side of flopz and bad of RCE

and I think xtoxm is kinda the key to solving the game

because if he's scum that says a lot about what the scumteam is doing (it would essentially have to be like {saudade, ari, xtoxm} as I called out as a potential team before)
whereas if he's not, scum is probably just all the people calling him scum for no real reason {shos saudade rce}
maybe there's some room for {shos saudade aristophanes} as well?

maaaybe {shos saudade xtoxm} but that really doesn't feel likely based on Saudade's interactions that seem to suggest exactly 1/2 of {Ari/RCE} is his buddy

you'll note that there is 1 intersection here and that's saudade which is who I want to vote for obviously

i'm going to be really fucking salty if shos somehow ends up being town despite just, like, not making any effort to dispel thoughts that he's SvS with Saudade. lol

1. Quit it with the association attempts. Xtomz has not interacted with practically anyone and discerning his alignment will NOT solve the game. Take a chill pill
2. The fact I'm not putting forth forceful attempts to dissuade your thought that I am scum with saudade comes probably because I don't know that you think so, or care. Also, you putting us in a pool as if we're fighting is wrong, we too barely interacted, and in order for it to be SvS there has to be a 'v', lol, in addition to both of us being scum.

Let's put my thoughts like this. If you had to put just one name and burn them, who would that be and why? ONE NAME, not a team.

I'm really confused how he was scumreading RCE and then I called RCE out for scummy stuff and then he turned on me though

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

I want to talk to Skitter before EOD and get that thing from Nancy Drew

I don't think the mason claim is legit and that's unrelated to my unvote

[RadiantCowbells]

I am 100% not switching wagons.

I have more to do before day ends.

[RadiantCowbells]

No.

I will put my vote back when I've talked to Skitter and Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not derailing the wagon.

I'm finishing up the engagements I want to have before this day ends.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also what the fuck?

You think that Saudade might be Mason and you're discouraging me from unvoting him... why exactly?

[RadiantCowbells]

.....???????

[RadiantCowbells]

he's mason with me why did you wagon my mason buddy you baddies

[RadiantCowbells]

We're Mason's but we don't actually want to play with each other so

[RadiantCowbells]

Math is scum for trying to L1 my mason buddy Saudade even though he knew he was Mason's with me btw

[RadiantCowbells]

Also once we lynch Saudade as the sole remaining Mason I deserve permanent doc protection tyia

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I liked Tris better.

[RadiantCowbells]

(This is a joke.)

[RadiantCowbells]

This is all a joke. Saud is claiming scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

This isn't a Gambit this is just a joke that I didn't expect you to take seriously

[RadiantCowbells]

I've actually changed my mind I don't care if I die without giving final reads. I don't want to be strongarming the game from dead thread.

VOTE: Saudade

[RadiantCowbells]

My locktownreads in {RC Ico Math Flopz Skitter} are very very probably not wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

Add teacher to that sorry

[RadiantCowbells]

If u called me 99% town I'd vote you because I'm literally 100% conftown for reasons

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi what are you asking me

[RadiantCowbells]

Magical mistaristophanes

[RadiantCowbells]

you'll note me not giving reads here.