Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[Iconeum]

Get your shit together in one post please, lol

[Iconeum]

This is a normal. Alien+JOAT is pretty strong, multitasking neighboutizer is pretty weak. So far, I see no reason at all to believe your claim. VT doc...nope. could be, but that would mean remaining scum are powerful. But what powers would they need in such a setup? A strongman simply nullifies everything, seems too strong, perhaps n-shot. Rolecop could be, fits with the motion detector. Ninja maybe (JOAT had track) n-shot.

I'm unsure what to make of thos tho.

I think if town!shos, you only have 1 viable option right now: SORT ME.

If you think i'm scum fakeclaiming, and you are heavily implying this, you are doing nothing to actually make sure of this. You are ignoring and not talking about everything I did leading up to the claim. If you think I'm scum, you should be trying to get me lynched instead of opting to no lynch.

If you think I'm town, you should be looking for actual scum and NOT trying to get scum to do the work for you (which is exactly what you are trying to achieve: let scum narrow the pool for you).

[Iconeum]

Also btw before o get back to work:

My reads
Skitter and teacher are locktown on my end. I townread you too ico.
Ari wiggles in my head for a while, was asking stuff about his latest meta my team but it appears it's NAI or something, still bugs me and his correlation with the flips is bad for him
Xtomx has been bad imo for a long while now
Math I believe is town but my Poe doesn't exclude him
Flopz
I forgot he existed

You don't have a scumteam in your mind?
Like, this is the entire problem with your slot right now. Ur not trying to get a solve. You think xtoxm is bad, but you ain't discussing what makes him likely town (his claim).j
You forgot flopz existed THREE HUNDRED!! pages into this game? Bullshit. Even if this is true, why are you not reaching out to him?
Ari doesn't sit well with you? Show me ONE post you are trying to sort him in?

How are you playing to a town wincon?

[Iconeum]

cannot

resist

temptation

(sorrynotsorry)

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

I have told you I currently townread you. And I would much much rather hunt for a single scum (2/7 chance) than for a team (1/42 chance) as my odds of thinking correctly are exactly 12 times larger

ok hunt for a single one

go

[Iconeum]

So our actions should be:1. Decide that we NL today.2. Discuss who we want to Lynch. After we have agreed, you sound your thoughts about what of they flip scum/town, and then we nolynch.3. You probably die. Of you don't - grand, profit, and we restart all discussions to see what the best Lynch is with the new info. If you do, we continue with the said Lynch, and with it's result proceed to either lylo or a good 4v1 town position

let's just assume for now this is the plan of action

so, start discussing who we (you) want to lynch please

[Iconeum]

oh god is that a perspective slip?

[Iconeum]

So our actions should be:1. Decide that we NL today.2. Discuss who we want to Lynch. After we have agreed, you sound your thoughts about what of they flip scum/town,

and then we nolynch.3. You probably die. Of you don't - grand, profit, and we restart all discussions to see what the best Lynch is with the new info

. If you do, we continue with the said Lynch, and with it's result proceed to either lylo or a good 4v1 town position

So assuming from your PoV we no lynch, and I survive somehow. How do you already right now come to the conclusion that it is 'grand, profit'?

After saying:

Scum will most likelly kill the doc regardless of what happens in the day and eventually we are even, a nolynch will happen. So it's a question of when, and the sooner it happens the more info we have when we do Lynch.

That doc claim is definitely not conftown, considering that RCE flipped town and so did bella.

The only thing I can think of that makes one think he is conftown is an agenda of confirmation on a partner.

He is by no means conftown.

Also if you expect me to remember shit in this game, sorry lads. So can anyone summarize the setup, including flips+claims?

Have we massclaimed yet? Can we consider if it is beneficial to nolynch this day, get another person killed and limit our lynch pool?

Scum will most likelly kill the doc regardless of what happens in the day and eventually we are even, a nolynch will happen. So it's a question of when, and the sooner it happens the more info we have when we do Lynch. That doc claim is definitely not conftown, considering that RCE flipped town and so did bella. The only thing I can think of that makes one think he is conftown is an agenda of confirmation on a partner. He is by no means conftown.

Also if you expect me to remember shit in this game, sorry lads. So can anyone summarize the setup, including flips+claims?

wait you actually think i could still be lying?

have you seen massclaim? and the current flips? do you think this game is literally just a N1-2 alien and a 3-shot Joat vs mafia neighbourizer?

This is a normal. Alien+JOAT is pretty strong, multitasking neighboutizer is pretty weak. So far,

I see no reason at all to believe your claim

. VT doc...nope. could be, but that would mean remaining scum are powerful. But what powers would they need in such a setup? A strongman simply nullifies everything, seems too strong, perhaps n-shot. Rolecop could be, fits with the motion detector. Ninja maybe (JOAT had track) n-shot.

Bolded for emphasis.

If your thoughts are genuine that you don't think I'm conftown, then how would you feel upon me being alive after a no lynch? Grand? Profit?
Hell no. That's genuine and strong evidence that I am in fact making this claim up. It should feed these quotes, not convince you of the opposite.
If you truly think I'm town, then there was absolutely no point in shading my slot like this.

[Iconeum]

Also you are basically calling me scum for being lazy and not going hardcore on this game

No. I'm calling you scum because I think you are deliberately trying not to have scumreads, or trying not to have to push scumreads.
You pushing for no lynch feels off as well. It might work, but you aren't living up to the second part that you said yourself. Discuss who should be the actual lynch.

[Iconeum]

I have told you I currently townread you

can you explain me

why

you are currently townreading me?

[Iconeum]

shos, sorry for this barrage of stuff. But i'm genuinly trying to see if I wanna go thru with lynching you or not. Your assistance is much appreciated

[Iconeum]

Yeah I'm never lynching teacher. Agree with everything he said on the last page.

+1 and aso skitter

xtomx's posting looks bad even when he does post.
I'm still in fvor of lynching RCE first but I really am sure that {Math, xtom, RCE} solves the game

You had both Math and xtoxm in your solving bracket previously, shos

It’s rather telling shos hasn’t caught up even just on the last day yet was responding. He’s clearly faking it. Between that and the hammer I am just gonna go with I was shot for being 3/3 on day one and shos/Ari.

Skitter if you’re going to mislynch me do it now or join me on shos or Ari please.

I agree with u on shos, actually. It looks fake that he's saying he doesnt remember things like massclaim happening when i know he participated in it.

@shos is hito/rest of your team still reading?

Also ur still my preferred lynch by a fairly large margin

I remembered that some have claimed, just didn't know if that was everyone. Don't misrep me

Also I do apologize for my lazy play, but yeah, not quite existing in the first 200 pages kinda takes its toll.

By Poe, I am left with Ari/math/xtom. Admittedly I don't actually scumread those three (only xtomx), but I truly hard townread teacher and Skittles and it appears that everyone believes ico so .

I think a NL asap is best; if there's actually a doc, scum will shoot him because another successful doc gets is another mislynch. If they don't, we get valuable info.

And here Ari joins your bracket because?? Why was Ari not in it previously? Why is Ari in it now, while admitting you don't scumread him?
You are townreading Math but he is still in your top 3 scumlist?

How are you expecting anyone to townread you here?

[Iconeum]

Oh yeah mild scumread on Ari, based on interactions and PoE

would love for you to dig deeper into this when not *phoneposting*

[Iconeum]

also it's not just the rce lynch, it's the whole nonsensical team-spouting, traitor, setup-spec thing that you did
and that you were trying to push that you were conftown day2, which i still hate

hate yes, but do you actually scumread that? i don't
his pushing himself as conftown D2 speaks louder as town then scum?
his setup spec, while hilarious, didn't read as scummy to me

[Iconeum]

ngl, math repeatedly pushing for this day to end on a shos lynch while we have 10-ish days left is creeping me out

especially now that i'm getting town pings in shos latest posts

[Iconeum]

to do list:

-quote shos town pings
-towncase flopz to skitter

[Iconeum]

Don't think anyone actually said why they think it is a bad idea, everyone just say no we're not doing that without remotely explaining.

The only bad thing about this plan is "we lose icos voice for a day" and this is solvable by my method of deciding tomorrow's lynch.

i've asked you repeatedly to start working on 'who will tomorrow's lynch be'

plz do that

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

[Iconeum]

DO THATHectic literally just successfully hunted me-scum down.

this was wrt to a callout that Hectic is gonna investigate shos

REALLY doesn't feel like how scum respond to this

[Iconeum]

How I'm reading shos now:

Very calm, and he feels like someone baffled by the fact that these ignorant plebs are ignoring his master plan to win the game for them
Really townie vibes despite me not agreeing with the actual content of the posts

[Iconeum]

My biggest issue with shos right now is his complete and utter lack of gamesolving
His reads don't make sense

[Iconeum]

From what I read by now my gut tells me that Math is scum.

you were literally townreading math a couple hours ago
math hasnt really changed his tone or angle on you so???

[Iconeum]

Suad Xtoxm math is v possible

Look at my previous reasoning

The one math is ignoring

+1 to that
I think if we add RCE to that pool we're solved
2 scum in {xtom Math RCE}

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing

doc!Ico

on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

That’s called a doctor claim (see bolded)

That is not a Doctor claim.

.

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in
VOTE: Math
I'm more sure of this now actually
his partner probably RCE

It’s rather telling shos hasn’t caught up even just on the last day yet was responding. He’s clearly faking it. Between that and the hammer I am just gonna go with I was shot for being 3/3 on day one and shos/Ari.

Skitter if you’re going to mislynch me do it now or join me on shos or Ari please.

I agree with u on shos, actually. It looks fake that he's saying he doesnt remember things like massclaim happening when i know he participated in it.

@shos is hito/rest of your team still reading?

Also ur still my preferred lynch by a fairly large margin

I remembered that some have claimed, just didn't know if that was everyone. Don't misrep me

Also I do apologize for my lazy play, but yeah, not quite existing in the first 200 pages kinda takes its toll.

By Poe, I am left with Ari/math/xtom. Admittedly I don't actually scumread those three (only xtomx), but I truly hard townread teacher and Skittles and it appears that everyone believes ico so .

I think a NL asap is best; if there's actually a doc, scum will shoot him because another successful doc gets is another mislynch. If they don't, we get valuable info.

Also btw before o get back to work:

My reads
Skitter and teacher are locktown on my end. I townread you too ico.
Ari wiggles in my head for a while, was asking stuff about his latest meta my team but it appears it's NAI or something, still bugs me and his correlation with the flips is bad for him
Xtomx has been bad imo for a long while now
Math I believe is town but my Poe doesn't exclude him
Flopz
I forgot he existed

1. Decide that we NL today.
2. Discuss who we want to Lynch. After we have agreed, you sound your thoughts about what of they flip scum/town, and then we nolynch.

I think a NL asap is best

Which did/do you want?

to be clear: asap means better today than tomorrow, not LETS END TODAY NOW

From what I read by now my gut tells me that Math is scum.

like wtf is this progression on math???

[Iconeum]

Ico, I have to do grading stuff, but can you talk about me/skit? Like I think your reads were upside down, but I have a hard time seeing that train of thought and Im surprised you arent testing the waters in any way with either of us.

i'm constantly doubting both your slots, but i end up going in circles

it's always 'skitter pushed that saud wagon so hard' and 'teacher just isn't scum here'

[Iconeum]

Also if ico is scum and endgames everyone you're all going to get a nice "SUCK MY ASS YAW" meme. I'll think which one it will be

and this is the other townie ping I got, basicly a perspective slip

i won't say this can't possibly be faked, but it sure doesn't feel faked to me

[Iconeum]

my current opinion on shos is that he could possible be town who needs to start getting his shit together

[Iconeum]

and also where is ari :s

[Iconeum]

(also also we need to start moving this game again - the large theme is gaining ground on us - they are now just 60 pages behind)

[Iconeum]

Ico it's worth to restate that you only claimed protective in D2 and not Doc. So you wouldn't have gotten counterclaimed "on the spot" anyways as people may have assumed you were Doc, you never outright stated it. You only claimed Doc today. I wouldn't put it past a very good scum player to think that as nobody claimed Doc in D2 when everyone assumed they were Doc that nobody was in fact Doc. Still very risky tho but less risky than an outright claim yesterday.

I strongly felt that scum wouldn't publicly burn off any cred they have/had to push against my claim if they can just opt for a kill. If this gained traction and flipped me, scum!him is in a pretty bad spot. And I think it's p townie to just spew this out as your feelings, comes from town imo.

So with the JK role factored in. I'm ignoring RC's fantastical no shot taken approach.

RCE + Ico scum team. That would be too much of a gambit imo.

RCE scum and Ico is misled Doc. RCE Town and Ico is misled Doc (Math could be either Town or Scum here). (RCE was the NK)
Both of these are certainly not particularly out there.

RCE Town and Ico is Doc that did the save (+Math Town obv). Triple Town is always possible but I'm not sure on the likelihood.

RCE town + Ico Scum + Math Town. (RCE was the NK) This could actually be a viable theory, it's pretty hit/miss to try that but not impossible. If it didn't work, scum would at least get an outed Doc.

RCE town + Ico Scum + Math Scum. I'm not a fan of any of the double scum theories.

This felt honest and solvey.

This isn't a LAMISTy question but a Noobie one. In these types of games is it normal for there to be so many VTs?

ping ping ping ping ping

3. What's your read on flopz? The fact that like nobody is worried about him concerns me

Speaking on that, I was "pleasantly" (confused) surprised by me not being in your top 3 scumreads. Why?

What has changed for you Skitter?

this interaction with you, skitter. I hard townread flopz for it.

[Iconeum]

The reasons are mainly tonal and PoE

how is this the best you can come up with

really feels like ur just scum who doesn't wanna be caught trying to fake a gamesolve/scumread, because you already have extremely bad reads trajectory on a bunch of players

[Iconeum]

From what I read by now my gut tells me that Math is scum.

you were literally townreading math a couple hours ago
math hasnt really changed his tone or angle on you so???

Math has made two (!) Attempts to call my posts scumslips. On one hand, bias etc. On another hand, math has played with me a lot and knows that as scum I am computed as FUCK. See for example the recent cult loss I linked to (just my latest game) - read the cult PT. When I am scum, I am just about as careful and calculated as one can be, to the point where I consider the timestamps on my posts to make it look like I'm surprised etc if needed (see: my CC to poyzin). Scumslips? Lol. He is reaaaaaally pushing it and grasping at straws. That's why gut.

@Math, can confirm?

[Iconeum]

Don't think anyone actually said why they think it is a bad idea, everyone just say no we're not doing that without remotely explaining.

The only bad thing about this plan is "we lose icos voice for a day" and this is solvable by my method of deciding tomorrow's lynch.

OK, try it another way. What's the benefit (leaving town!Ico)? B/c theres no world where I consider Ico scum, and Ill suck ass if thats wrong.

1. Easier to get a scum Lynch (less towniest needed)
2. 'proof' of ico, good for sanity, or much better info with anyone else dead
3. Forcing scum to make one of their kills in a less-informed state

This is also kinda the stuff I mentioned. I don't agree with most of this, but I don't scumread shos for it either?

1)Easier to get a scum lynch isn't true, because while needing 1 less vote you also HAVE 1 less town vote to work with. But that's from my perspective.
2)I suppose due dilligence from town allows this?
3)Eh. I think town always needs to maintain initiative, and the best way to do that is thru lynching. It's strategy vs odds I guess.

[Iconeum]

good quotes tho

[Iconeum]

To anyone scumreading Ari:

how do you feel about his relation to the saud lynch?

@shos in particular, you think Ari is scum. Like, your only main scumread right now?
He was focused on lynching scum, and he kept calling you out for going against what is now certain a scum wagon. Yet you scumread him because PoE?

[Iconeum]

I don't think Ari is scum. I think skitter recognizes this. Don't agree with skitter's math read (or i'm just not ready to accept that?), but I am a lot less certain about flopz then I was previously when rereading his ISO.

Shos remains a very difficult read. There are town pings, like calling out someone to meta read him 'please do so', his response to math about previous game and how he acts a lot more calculated as scum. HOWEVER there's such a shitton of content that's so easily scumread. His reads don't make sense. His progression doesn't make sense.
Is shos literally the mislynch scum are aiming for, or is it actually just scum? That's what's going thru my mind right now.

Teacher - not sure. I don't scumread him. I like his solving and engaging the players.

Math hasn't made a lot of sense during the game, but I liked how he reacted to my protection of him? I think I townread his reaction to Bella's claim and I strongly feel scum don't go bananas like that in the main thread over it. Scum would have a lot more calculated response to that.

[Iconeum]

Is it flopz/shos?

Math/flopz?

[Iconeum]

oh and i look over xtoxm


hmmmm

xtoxm/flopz/shos for both remaining scum?
does this make sense wrt to the saud lynch?

[Iconeum]

Woah Ico, I wasn't expecting me to jump right into your solves after your earlier posts.

I mean im' going around in circles

I'm well aware

not all of it makes sense lol

[Iconeum]

part of me wants to take the obvious route which is shos, there's every incentive for me to push that lynch right now

but it feels too easy?

otoh, if he's not scum then i'm def wrong in one of my towns so fuck me right

[Iconeum]

To anyone scumreading Ari:

how do you feel about his relation to the saud lynch?

@shos in particular, you think Ari is scum. Like, your only main scumread right now?
He was focused on lynching scum, and he kept calling you out for going against what is now certain a scum wagon. Yet you scumread him because PoE?

Well, I wouldn't say he is my main scumread

, but he is definitely the slot I think is best to lynch right now. I do have to look into saudade interactions, when I get the time to dig in. Hopefully on Thursday; I hoped today but gf troubles lol.
The fact he was against saudade doesn't give him too much towncred (unless he lead that lynch and/or initiated it?) because I don't really think there was any counterwagon viable against it. I was against that lynch and if memory serves right only the policy lynch of xtomx was an actual option.

Stop. Not. Giving.Your.Actual.Reads

I've repeatedly asked you to start giving us your reads. You say ari!scum. When I start pushing that, Ari isn't your 'main' scumread? Then who is?

Math xtomx lying because RCE was fail-hooded N1 is one possibility. But I don't think he is lying; I just think he is scum. Don't see what you're trying to even say.

What reason does scum!xtoxm have according to you to claim being NB'd?

my current opinion on shos is that he could possible be town who needs to start getting his shit together

that's kinda where i'm at
his content is bad af but his tone is kinda townie

Yeah basicly this. Really seeing scummy content but his tone is really town pinging me. Gut says shos is the designated mislynch.
I don't think math is scum. I think he's the scum attack dog and he doesn't know it.

Spoiler: Titus response to Skitter’s question

Looking at VC 2.6 (This is Titus’s opinion paraphrased by me)

Disclaimer, VCA is rarely done in once VC in a vacuum. It works together with other VCs.

Now we have Sausade as the third vote on you. There is no counterwagon. This doesn't appear to be a hard bus. So I'm relatively confident you're town.

I don't see Ico Xtoxm as scum on this VC either. Two scum neighboring each other in a VC seems highly problematic unless scum were deathly afraid of you being spot on. That definitely doesn't apply for Ico and likely not xtoxm. This is likely scum buttering up Math after riling him up.

Why don't shos and Flopz get on you? Because shos nor Flopz was in any danger. RC and Math were bickering. RC wanted shos. Scum wanted to use conftown Math to discredit RC and make RC feel alone.

Their objective was RC v Math, lynch RC. They'd settle for you but they wanted RC discredited. The RCE flip creates tunnel Math.

The RC NK was clear too. Bella was killed because she was obvious town AND she wouldn't change the gamestate. Bella could come back and do something unexpected. Ico is never expected to push Flopz. Thus Bella > Ico for an NK.

I really do like this. I'm fairly confident skitter is town. Why was I killed over Bella? Partly because Bella had like a 50/50 chance of lying about being gated and partly because my reads suck/change with the wind? Because I was townreading scum is also a good guess, right?

@teacher @ico am i really just tunneled here?

Well, I have the opposite of a tunnel lol. In a world where my gut is right, and both shos and math (do you TvT read those 2?) are town, who is scum?

Ari/flopz/xtoxm solves the game then, right?

I'm close to just going with town!shos.

@Math, can you see a town!shos in this game?

[Iconeum]

Shos has pushed no lynch for how long now?

And that’s with some wagon pressure?

Do you expect shos to all of a sudden give “actual” reads anytime soon? No one is making him and since he is scum it’s in his team’s best interest for him to wet noodle. I don’t see him giving a single read or doing jack.

People get townreads by being town helping town and contributing. That’s how this works.

I don't think scum would attract needlessly attention like shos to himself, like that tho. What actually bothers me is that he is insistent in not solving the game, and if he would be doing that I most certainly would be townreading him now.

Disagree, i've been pushing him into making reads for a while now.

Lynch today is between shos/Ari according to me, right now

[Iconeum]

Can we go over the townblock again?

Ico/Math/skitter/teacher

--

all scum in shos/ari/xtoxm/flopz?

[Iconeum]

ok shos have it your way

VOTE: shos

[Iconeum]

@7874: clearly it did buy him most of the game's townreads based on this logcal fallacy. Add the unprovability of anything said in that context and chaching? Profit!

Also if you really want some hard scumreads, my current go is VOTE: math and xtomx/Ari as partner.

this makes exactly zero sense, and it reads fabricated as, well, something fabricated i guess

[Iconeum]

How so? He claimed to have been NBd and suddenly all pressure was off him. Why wouldn't he? What doesn't make sense to you?

Yesterday you had a solve of (math, RCE/xtoxm). We lynched RCE, that flipped town.
Then today you were calling math town by your own read. I thought: sure that makes sense he's reconsidering based off of a town flip RCE.

Now ur back to your previous solve, without any new information, dismissing or not reacting to any of the actual sorting going on by players. You are not trying to make a townblock, or you know, be *in* the townblock if ur actually town.

I had to literally FORCE you into posting scumreads, let alone townreads.
You were giving us crap about not policy lynching on D2.
You were HEAVILY pushing towards no lynching.

Yeah, hard time seeing your actions as town shos.

[Iconeum]

I'm down with lynching shos now. Here's my final review of his 'progression' on math, xtoxm and some others

*LONG POST AHEAD* (but please kinda read it?)

Spoiler:

Let's see your evolution on Math (including portions of xtoxm as well)

. Mathblade - his posting actually feels good, I guess. nothing that cannot be faked, tho.

This is calling math good, but fencesitting the read.

7. Xtoxm - from the not so little I've seen, I'm leaning further scum there.

In the same post, calls xtoxm scum. Xtoxm barely had content at this point.

Alright
I don't wanna lynch Saudade
Can anyone of those on his wagon tell me why they are there, pleaz?

Your Association wrt to saudude is not very good.

Woohoo I'm actually all caught up and it's taken me only 7 hours on and off!


VOTE: xtomx
I actually think a policy Lynch+night action results will be the best

Xtoxm, previously your scumread, is now a policy lynch.

Btw has anyone claimed D2 to have been neighbourized? If so that is probtown

Oh hey look what I found. A neighbourizer claim is probtown? Interesting. Who claimed it again? Xtoxm. Who are you scumreading? Xtoxm.
Nice progression.

Suad Xtoxm math is v possible

Look at my previous reasoning

The one math is ignoring

+1 to that
I think if we add RCE to that pool we're solved
2 scum in {xtom Math RCE}

Scumread again on both xtoxm and math

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing

doc!Ico

on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

That’s called a doctor claim (see bolded)

That is not a Doctor claim.

.

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in
VOTE: Math
I'm more sure of this now actually
his partner probably RCE

Scumteam read of Math WITH RCE. We know RCE flipped town, math still scum. No reconsideration. Bad progression.

By Poe, I am left with Ari/math/xtom. Admittedly I don't actually scumread those three (only xtomx), but I truly hard townread teacher and Skittles and it appears that everyone believes ico so .

Ari joins the fray after RCE flipped town.

Math I believe is town but my Poe doesn't exclude him

What's this? Townread on math but he's been embedded in your solve for days already. Scum with RCE, and he was still scum after RCE flipped town. Now Math is your townread but still in your PoE???

7585: because we now know RCE was town. This obviously forces a rethink

Yeah that forces a rethink. Only you didn't. Your solve DID NOT CHANGE.

Oh yeah mild scumread on Ari, based on interactions and PoE

Then this came out of nowhere, with no explanation or effort behind it.

From what I read by now my gut tells me that Math is scum.

Aaaand back to scumreading math.

I am currently leaning towards Ari.The reasons are mainly tonal and PoE. I am fighting with myself as to whether or not I want xtomx lynched right now, because getting that slot to lylo would be terribad imo. My math read is swinging back and forth based on literally any post he writes, and the Titus thing only made me scumread that slot further. Titus loves scum activity. Anyway.I have set aside flopz for now as his recent answer to me actually was good. If need we can sort him later. Imo we have enough good townreads to continue the game, and with everyone TRing you, it's practically 3 unlynchables which I agree with, which is good. Ari is the only one I cannot argue against lynching, and therefore if I had to vig anyone it would be him.

'swinging back and forth on math' is good enough. But Ari you don't have anything AGAINST lynching him? Since when? He's only been in your solve extremely recently? If he's the ONLY player you can see lynched, why wasn't he in your solve before?

Well, I wouldn't say he is my main scumread, but he is definitely the slot I think is best to lynch right now. I do have to look into saudade interactions, when I get the time to dig in. Hopefully on Thursday; I hoped today but gf troubles lol.

This was wrt to Ari. Oh, he's NOT your top scumread? Ok.

Also if you really want some hard scumreads, my current go is VOTE: math and xtomx/Ari as partner.

Oh riiight. Yeah that makes total sense. Math is your hard scumread.

[Iconeum]

honestly if shos v math is Town v Town ur both doing a great job not giving each other a chance here

[Iconeum]

shos what are your reasons *against* lynching xtoxm today from your pov?

[Iconeum]

shos, you said that the RCE lynch was because of mechanics, not because of him being/playing scummy. Correct?

Yesterday I thought Math/RCE/xtomx, yesToday I was *gut* townreading Math, but if you read today's posts you'll see that I am practically against him in every thought. Also I don't see why the flip has me reconsider? I reconsider all the time, regardless of the flip. (

In this case RCE was to be lynched because of the failed kill and JK, not necessarily because of his play; and that has nothing to do with Math

).

I wonder why you feel that way now, because previously you said all of this:

Spoiler:

I jailkept rce night one

Btw I'd totally go for an RCE ISO today with possibility of lynch

I jailkept rce night one

Btw I'd totally go for an RCE ISO today with possibility of lynch

You realize an jailkeep and no night kill can implicate either a save or a guilty, right?
Why so quick to draw lynch conclusion?

Do you really think someone would shoot RCE N1?

Suad Xtoxm math is v possible

Look at my previous reasoning

The one math is ignoring

+1 to that
I think if we add RCE to that pool we're solved
2 scum in {xtom Math RCE}

ok since everyone and their mother is insisting that we stop throwing shade at scum but are just handing

doc!Ico

on a platter to them

I hardclaim a protective

Math is inno

We are lynching shos today. If that flips scum, RC is next.

That’s called a doctor claim (see bolded)

That is not a Doctor claim.

.

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in
VOTE: Math
I'm more sure of this now actually
his partner probably RCE

Umm I made a mistake
VOTE: RCE
this is superior to Math

Don't really disagree with you there.

Shos has associatives with RCE, but i need to look further to prove this.
Deepwolf according to my feelings is teacher rather then skitter tho.

However how skitter was 'enabling' my push on you, math, did feel off (gut)

Ok glad we have this talk lol

With RCE? If any, against RCE - iirc my team and I expressed suspicion that way, and I'm voting there atm

[Iconeum]

I had a pool of three people I saw scum inOne dies, flips townI am not allowed to add others to this pool?So likeI am forced to form a read and then go head to the wall until it breaks, and no option to reconsider?Oh wait, didn't you just accuse me of not reconsideringBut the pool did changeSo I did reconsiderBut math and xtomx are still thereSo I didn't rconsiderDude. Stop. You are allowed to reconsider whenever. After reconsidering, you may definitely get to the same conclusion that you previously had. You may also change that. You may also partially change that, like, keeping math and xtomx and adding Ari

you explicitely mentioned you thought RCE/math were a scumteam

RCE flipped town

math remains independently scummy according to you, but you just add a new name to your solve without going thru any kind of thoughts process about the flip

[Iconeum]

If Shos is scum Sau is 100% scum as well

Sau could be scum with Shos being town though so Sau is superior lynch

My locktownreads in {RC Ico Math Flopz Skitter} are very very probably not wrong.

all hail our overlord (rip) in the afterlife, probably shouting at us because we havent lynched shos yet

[Iconeum]

...all of that supports what I said - what's the problem?

your entire story doesn't make sense

you don't scumread him but you want him lynched because of the claim

but you do scumread him acoording to ISO

it's full and full and full of contradictions (your reads)

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

we can continue this later

don't want a lynch yet

need other opinions on this

[Iconeum]

how are you reading flopz again?

i'm solidly regretting not keeping paper notes for this game

[Iconeum]

There's a ton of incriminating stuff that all points to scum!shos (posted it all before, his stances on his scumreads/townreads, his Association to the saud lynch).
But it *feels* wrong if you know what I mean?

The Great Dragon God knows i've been guilty of this plenty times before as town myself.

@Everyone: pop quiz

If shos is scum, where/who is the counterwagon?
If shos is town, why isn't it easier to lynch him?

[Iconeum]

I still am pushing the NL even tho there is no more saudade

for the sake of argument, here's my position on the NL again:

There is a chance we no lynch on the next day. That is only if we mislynch today.

You are wrong in wanting a no lynch earlier than that, because yesterday and today there are easy NK's for scum to make (bella and me).
By waiting and shrinking the pool, we force scum into a tighter selection for their kill, feeding us information.

If you no lynch earlier, you gain little to no information.

[Iconeum]

i think there's a decent chance you are not the lynch today, shos

[Iconeum]

@7874: clearly it did buy him most of the game's townreads based on this logcal fallacy. Add the unprovability of anything said in that context and chaching? Profit!

Also if you really want some hard scumreads, my current go is VOTE: math and xtomx/Ari as partner.

i'm confused why you're going math over xtoxm here given ur xtoxm stance

shos can you answer this?

[Iconeum]

Who is, then?

And I'm going for Math right now because his recent posting feels scummy to me. It's not wrong, it is actually scummy. It's like a scummer trying to look like he's doing something, so he goes and picks up random shit with excuses. The two scumslips he tried to force on me are extremely bad, for example. Xtom is just horribly bad

You are only taking recent events into consideration. Nothing else. You've been pushing xtoxm lynch next to your NL for the majority of the game. Now you want to lynch math? After you explicitely said math is very likely scum with RCE, who flipped town.

That's also my point about your reads not reconsidering.

Him pushing that supposed scumslip, do you really scumread that? What stops town!math from pushing that? What's so scummy about it?
Do you think scum!math NEEDS that slip to push you? He was waaay longer pushing you then that slip.

And I expect you to understand that if ur tunneled in on someone, anything that player does, how silly it may look to someone else (eg slip), is exponentially worse then it might actually be.

But you aren't considering any of this. Ur not trying to sort math either. Like literally this:

'math pushes a wrong idea on me, that wasn't a scumslip at all, therefore math is scum'

While you had a huge interest in lynching xtoxm for actual reasons throughout the game, that ur now ignoring.


Your progression isn't town at all.

[Iconeum]

Who is, then?

I'm really really tempted to go Ari.

[Iconeum]

Ari pushed saud pretty hard tho

not saying it's impossible that was a bus

and shos has soooo much stuff that can get him lynched, including his Association to the saud lynch

ehhhh

[Iconeum]

gut feeling: if we lynch ari and that's town, it becomes reasonable to asume shos+teacher?

if we lynch ari and that's scum, then shos remains a likely partner, or else flopz?

i'm past considering skitter as scum
xtoxm has an outside shot for being scum i guess?

shos+xtoxm is not impossible, seeing how hard shos scumread him without ever really pushing

[Iconeum]

Ico, your have repeatedly repeated that reconsider thing but you're not listening so I'll make it very clear:

THERE WAS NO ASSOCIATION BETWEEN RCE AND MATH. THOSE READS WERE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER.

your iso disagrees with you?

Adding this to the 'scumslip' Math caught me in

VOTE: Math

I'm more sure of this now actually his partner probably RCE

[Iconeum]

so who's in the lynchpool for the coming days:

shos/ari tier 1
flopz/xtoxm tier 2

ico/teacher/skitter/math all town

we lynch in either shos/ari today

if we hit town, lynch the other tomorrow (alternatively no lynch and have scum reduce the pool?)

if we hit scum, you guys can start looking for more association with more information

[Iconeum]

i just reread all vote counts for this day

lynching shos (or pushing him) is a LOT harder then I thought it actually was. I had a feeling it was too easy, but it's definitely not.
It got to 3 votes at it's peak (L-1), with me on it (xtoxm + math).

If this is a town lynch it would have gotten further, faster? no?

[Iconeum]

I don't see town! Math making such a case, especially because I know math IS an able town player

I know of at least 1 player this game (who flipped town), that strongly disagrees with this.

[Iconeum]

shos, question for you.

If you had to choose between voting and lynching Ari, or being the lynch yourself.

What is your choice?

[Iconeum]

Don't you give me this crap shos.

I've clearly explained my thoughts on the No Lynch and the exact situation where it becomes viable (hint: it's not now). You failed to answer my post wrt to this.

Shos + teacher is not a scenario. It's not in what you quoted. It's not in my mind. You literally quoted where I say teacher town, and you twist this into an asso with you? Why?

Not L-1, L-2. With 1 hard townread of mine, and a more dubious slot but with a good claim to back him up.

[Iconeum]

I still am pushing the NL even tho there is no more saudade

for the sake of argument, here's my position on the NL again:

There is a chance we no lynch on the next day. That is only if we mislynch today.

You are wrong in wanting a no lynch earlier than that, because yesterday and today there are easy NK's for scum to make (bella and me).
By waiting and shrinking the pool, we force scum into a tighter selection for their kill, feeding us information.

If you no lynch earlier, you gain little to no information

.

[Iconeum]

reasonable to asume shos+teacher?

I couldn't make the decision so here are some

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... h%2Fx%2Fim

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... h%2Fx%2Fim

And classic
https://images.app.goo.gl/qjD1o3pJHfbMKKCK8

that was a question

did you see the '?' at the end of the sentence?

did you read my next post calling teach town?

[Iconeum]

Who resisted this wagon? Only me, I think, I'm just good at that

myself and skitter come to mind

[Iconeum]

shos, question for you.

If you had to choose between voting and lynching Ari, or being the lynch yourself.

What is your choice?

Well I don't see any profit information wise from lynching myself, and Ari is in my pool, then the choice is rather obvious. Why do you ask?

because there is no scenario math is being lynched today

it's gonna be between you and ari

i want to see if you are gonna help us lynch ari if it comes to taht

[Iconeum]

i'll put it differently

i'm considering this day from now on as an effective Glatiator situation between shos and Ari

votes should only be placed on these 2

[Iconeum]

Also how did math became a *hard* tr of yours?

i've protected him, as a doc, twice this game already

i mean...

[Iconeum]

I do think I answered this but maybe not - imo nling late allows scum to make two consecutive kills and thus allowing them to pick who they want to be in Lylo; whereas nling early gives town more control. I guess we can agree to disagree here

def disagree yeah

No Lynching now means scum get free kill of the doc, with no additional info for town barring any possible doubts about my claim
No Lynching tomorrow means scum still get a free kill of the doc today, but there is 1 slot less for them to kill after the no lynch tomorrow, forcing scum to kill in a pool that town decided.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: ari

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

Alright, I'm starting at 10 pages before which is pg 242 for the record. Let's do this!

Honestly

I think RCE Shos Saudade solves the game more cleanly than anything else

I mean, I like this solve and want shos today but ya know, might have to settle I guess.

Is Nancy Drew following the game? Can I have her thoughts?

I don;t think this was the spot but RC asked for thoughts on Skitter from Nancy before he died and while she had a hard time explaining it, felt a genuine tone from skitter and as if there was a lack of confbias in their reads which is town indicative. I know RC is dead but I wanted to loop around to this answer in his honour.

There's no point in lynching RC today, Math. I'd want to. But there's no point.

Either he's town PR, and he dies tonight. Or he's scum, and we lynch him tomorrow.

Do you think it's better to get rid of him today?

So I'm probably not catching up fully tonight. Walking 3 miles to and from work is exhausting me.

But I do want to nip this in the bud.

This is what sets the foundation for a future narrative. Which is a world where RC doesn't die until end game because "scum are leaving him as a mislynch.".

RC never eats a nightkill this game because even as a claimed investigative his result is not credible. So it's on town to deal with. He is no longer self resolving.

I'm pushing there. I'll case it or whatever when I get the chance. Also burn openwolf Ari.

This is when we were going after Plum btw. Fine with both wagons, also pushing Me/Ari as SvS when I really don't think it made sense as a real viewpoint but it made a lot more sense from the point of view as scum who wants to have as much weight behind both potential mislynches they're pushing at the same time.

Oof! The cringe value of these two RCE posts are incredible! Especially with retrospect!

Why is RC still alive? -RCE/Jingle 2020

Because I suck at the wordy words
And I am exhausted.

And I feel so betrayed by RL I don’t have the time to devote to this.

*vote RCE for President*

Especially since everyone was townreading RCE but now all of a sudden not from RCE.

Still going to enjoy the weekend.

I may hammer if Saude gets to L-1 just to end the day but it’s a silly wagon and Saude is town.

Hey man, I never followed up but I hope everything IRL is calming down for you! I hate the thought of you feeling betrayed irl and I really hope the best for you <3
If you ever need, HMU

FL says this saudade wagon is dumb. The counterwagon is obvious. Also saudade specifically he says go ham.

Town on saudade.

Oh then the basically FL scumreads Icos iso, which I agreed with up until his plum push. But I'm not great at reading Ico. I think I've misread him every game we've played together as both alignments. So I was still considering it.

He also scumreads him on the basis that RC would be obscuring associates and RC/Skitter felt too blatant. Ergo the associatives would be simpler and less direct.

But I'll also go back and double check because that was a start of day read and I feel I'm misrepping it.

HOLD IT THERE

You're saying that Flavor Leaf, before Iconeum outed as having saved Mathblade, said that Iconeum made sense as scum with me?
But now, following Iconeum claiming protective on Mathblade (which should upend any read), Flavor Leaf has not given an updated read yet you're still giving it as if it's relevant?

That seems like something a town-aligned player would really really really not do!

He still reads Ico as your partner. Read the posts man, this is like 3 posts in a row where you are twisting posts to mean something else.

He still reads Ico as your partner. Read the posts man, this is like 3 posts in a row where you are twisting posts to mean something else.

You said this was a start of day read and you need to go back to read it. You also only cited things that happened during the first day regarding his read on us.

He also scumreads him on the basis that RC would be obscuring associates and RC/Skitter felt too blatant. Ergo the associatives would be simpler and less direct.

But I'll also go back and double check because that was a start of day read and I feel I'm misrepping it.

Referring to RC/Skitter<-> you said this was a start of day read for sure.

Oh then the basically FL scumreads Icos iso, which I agreed with up until his plum push. But I'm not great at reading Ico. I think I've misread him every game we've played together as both alignments. So I was still considering it.

This all happened D1.

So you said your read was a D1 read, you cited stuff happening D1, the only stuff you mentioned from D2 you explicitly said was a start of day read, and you make no commentary on anything that has happened since besides to follow up by saying that "oh FL still scumreads him". There's no way if this was a still scumreads him situation that your arguments wouldn't center around Ico's protective claim and my interactions with him and the surrounding claim because that's what is most relevant and important, not some random bullshit D1 or start of day.

A modern RC-Ico read would absolutely center around the protective claim and some sort of argument regarding my willingness to fake claim stuff or have my buddies fakeclaim stuff.
It's not an impossible read to have and actually there's a lot that could, hypothetically, be said about that read but the arguments given are really vague and meaningless and all ignore the most relevant data point

That was FLs read. I don't think it's likely but I also don't think he knows about Ico's doc claim.

so, again, it was a much earlier read that you have presented to mathblade as still relevant despite a major data point that should affect the read, as I pointed out

He saw there's a wagon on saudade, so I assume he's read some of the recent pages. I asked if he knows about the protective claim because he still scumreads ico. So idk what all he's read.

If you're adding FLs reads as a reason to scumread me then... Cool. But I don't care.

This kind of feels like a slam dunk tbh.
Like I skimmed it before because it was bolded by RC (Thanks Bae <3) and it felt off then. RCE just felt off in response and like he was floundering for an answer here. He is definitely not cool feing called out and I think there's good reason for that!

Even this discrediting now is oozing with scum.

Like, no.

YOU DONE MESSED UP A A RON

NOW TAKE YO ASS DOWN TO O SHAG HENNESSY'S OFFICE

take

yo ass

down

to

o

shag

henessy's

office

before i bust a club

up in yo butt

Lmfao I <3 u RC XD
Despite what I said about you posting too much, you were definitely the majority of my enjoyment of this game and I want you to know that <3

RC are you going to push RCE right now and blow up your Saude wagon?

If not what is your purpose behind this push here?

winning the game on d2 as opposed to relying on other players correctly sorting the game after d2.
if I was scum pushing a mislynch why would I care about trying to set up future mislynches when I know I'm going down after saudade anyway
if I'm town pushing a scum lynch and I want other townies to know who else is scum in the future, I absolutely care about calling out who the rest of the scum are

does that make sense to you

Truly the hero we needed!

VOTE: RCE

Looks like thatabout sums up the RC/RCE thing and I am totally in on RCE now.
Thanks for your sacrifice my friend! I should sheep you more often

does this post read genuine or faked, @ everyone who's name doesn't start with A and ens on RI

[Iconeum]

Xtox come back here I'm going to force you to talk and then vote rc

im notoriously difficult to force to talk

does this read like scum interacting with scum to you, shos?

[Iconeum]

yeah ok buddy

ur also not getting an xtoxm lynch today

[Iconeum]

it's most definitely not a crumb

xtoxm would have said so by now

[Iconeum]

it's most definitely not a crumb

xtoxm would have said so by now

i meant to say most definitely not scum v scum crumbing

to me that reads like scum neighbourizer pushing town to vote RC, with a wink to the neighbourhood

zero reasons for scum among each other to do that

UNLESS you are willing to accept that scum *actually* used it on themselves instead of town

I don't

[Iconeum]

shos, it's time for you to vote ari

or yourself but yeah

[Iconeum]

math i don't wanna lynch shos right now

he just really feels town? the way he responds to stuff is just… natural?

[Iconeum]

Also I am so weirded out by shos not voting me atm

yes, it's kinda baffling ...

what do you guys *actually* make of it?

[Iconeum]

Yeah well.

I'm kinda done trying to work with you. You have been on opposite sides of me for pretty much the entire game.

[Iconeum]

nope

[Iconeum]

ari is only scum with shos. shos can be scum with people that aren't ari. so logically, shos is the better lynch.
assuming the solve is {shos, ari}, im more concerned about shos getting undue towncred from the ari scum lynch and endgaming, than vice versa.

if ari flips scum, shos is higly likely the next lynch anyway

[Iconeum]

well played scum

well played indeed

rip RC v duck