TM 2021 - Black Flag Nightless

[Flopz]

What??! No nightkills this game???????????

This post is honestly disgusting and I'm not being facetious here. Next time you want to make a joke please don't make it feel like you scrounged around the place, in the dead of night, hoping to find any lost dregs of humour, brute forcing the pieces together like some bastardised patchwork quilt which you then attempt to bring to life through the couple of torn pages of a really sketchy necronomicon you found shredded by a gutter in the really

bad

part of Town.

This is not a warning, it's a

threat

.

[Flopz]

Btw, I don't like either Johnny or Amp's entrances (hop agrees). Will probably mess about and come up with a readlist.

[Flopz]

Flopz - lower than average poster(as scum at least)

Nah, that's an all alignment thing. In all my games I've been trying to increase my post count but it's hard. Maybe this game'll mark a change, who knows.

[Flopz]

Gonna go through the list I guess.

Chen - Chen's vote on super at the start was a bit weird as I quite liked Super's intro.

On the AL+DK part, 129 and 145 seem to directly contradict one another, unless I'm missing something can you explain what you meant in 129 as Koba didn't give a reason so what explanation of the reason did you not like (or was that about Koba's Super point in the vote post, but not sure why you'd tie those points together)?

Auro v Chen feels eh, tho now looking through Auro's posts, he's really chummy with fire, tho fire also made a comment on Auro's general play-style so this could just be players with history memeing together. Tho I agree with Chen's assessment that Auro feels a bit forced.

[Flopz]

Johnny- Did not like the entrance, Hopkirk agrees on this. Nothing else to say here lol

[Flopz]

Flopz - A real cool cat, heard that he even says thanks to the bus driver whenever he can strike up the nerve. Just a good guy trying his best in this cold dark world.

[Flopz]

Auro - First of all the memes are cringe, cease immediately. Tho I will have to say that I liked the AL pun, I'll give you that. (don;t get cocky)

Said before, I'm not the biggest fan of the little Fire/Auro party going on. Seems a bit too close for comfort tho I don't know either of their history.

I feel like there's a slight manufactured vibe to Auro's posting, can someone else who isn't Auro/Fire tell me if Auro is the way Auro generally is?

Auro, can you tell me why you voted for AL?

[Flopz]

I hath returned, rl stuff happened

tell me if Auro is the way Auro generally is?

I can tell you that I feel as though someone asks this every game apologies if you're bothered by the cringe jokes

I'm very slightly memeing, tho through your subsequent posts and Hectic whispering into my ear it seems this is just the way you post.

[Flopz]

Mee, Hectic and Hopkirk are discussing things on discord. Hopkirk is on my case to just go out there and say that Infinity/AL is

baaaaaaaaaaad

. We all think he is bad and don't want to look like we're following people so I'm just gonna post this now and explain reasonings later becuase Hop was going on about tiebreaker points or sth.

VOTE: Autumn Leaves

Hop is also saying that we are suspicious of Chenn so just getting that out there.

[Flopz]

Hectic made a meme, we are pretty much left

[Flopz]

Tell hopkirk that his read on me can start to have some validity once he stops quicklimming me.

Hectic also agrees

forced disclaimer by Hectic, he hasn't read the last 3 pages

, compared to the game that we were all in you're definitley reading different and not in a good way (please refer to meme above)

[Flopz]

Back to my reads, Lilith- Don't disagree with what they were saying to AL or really what they were saying with Auro.

119/120 - fire/lilith is weird, not sure how either would not know that Team Mafia means working with your team, it's kind of in the name.

188 - fortunately that term is mainly relegated to Zoomers so most people don't use it and I am always grateful for that.

I like their challenges to Autumn about the whole townslips/scumslips thingie

[Flopz]

Hectic and hopkirk should absolutely know that I play differently from game to game, both of them were either in or modding one night stand and ss3 where I played differently from both matrix decipher and each other. I hadn't even tried to solve until this morning so what gives? I would definitely expect hopkirk to approach reading me cautiously after being confident I'm scum in one night stand and being wrong.

Agree with the lilith TRs btw, she was pretty obvscum in the last game I played with her, maybe she has a way better scumgame than I thought but idk. The way she immediately was worried about me pocketing her felt natural.

Super is either town or very good at faking being natural I think

Hop wants to clarify that he wasn't hardscumreading you that game, it was just a pressure vote that got

a bit

out of hand. Varying your playstyle away from your Town meta doesn't make any sense. Why would you want to seem different to Town-finity, especially in Team Mafia?

[Flopz]

Infinity/AL - Infinity's first post rubbed all of Team 'Team 'Team' Team' Team the wrong way, it felt a bit fake and over the top about complaining to be Town.

In general, Infinity's posting this game just feel a lot more manufactured and stilted than his usual games which doesn't emit positive vibes. For example, him complaiening about the set-up felt a bit forced and unnatural.

Prior to your post, 280, Hopkirk was saying the same about Amp which I also agree with. I'm pretty happy with an Infinity v Ampharos showdown tbh, I'd like to see that gung ho Infinity that charged straight towards me in the Matrix Decipher game, he was pretty great.

Hopkrik and I have been staring at 282 for quite a while now and still can't make head or tails with it. Hectic is theorizing that this is one of those rare landing right in the middle coin flips but we aren't too sure.

[Flopz]

I'm pretty happy with an Infinity v Ampharos showdown tbh

Hopkirk wanted me to clarify, he doesn't think it's a SvS from the way Ampharos put Infinty at the bottom of the list and gave points before voting. He was initially against Auro and Amp through Amp's entrance and what Amp was sayign about Auro (+ other stuff)

Hop had a vaguely neutral gut-read on infinity and then Hectic was saying Infinity was bad so he wasn't so sure. We think there's most likely a Scum in there so it'll be good to see more from those two slots.

[Flopz]

Mistyx has things to say:

Townreads Super/Koba
Weirded out by how soon Amy started going all serious, but doesn't mind the entrance
Doesn't like either of Flopz/Johnny's entrances, thinks Flopz has a worse entrance

@Super: Mistyx is asking for your MU username in case they have meta or whatever.

That's some good memes, so Mistyx is saying I have the worst entrance in this game? (As I would say both Amp and Johnny are the bottom). Do you agree with that assessment or is this just shading?

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is on my case to just go out there and say that Infinity/AL is

baaaaaaaaaaad

.

Hop had a vaguely neutral gut-read on infinity

Explain this flopz?

The sequence of events explained in 299 are what happened before the results of 283. After 299 happened and Hectic changed Hop's mind, 283 is what followed.

[Flopz]

can someone explain why amp is scummy cuz their entrance reads were beefy and that kinda player usually sorts itself in tbe long run

Team 'Team 'Team' Team' Team believe that Amp's initial entrance felt like the usual bad entrance.

Initially, Hopkirk thought Amp had the same issues with Infinity that we had so thought it wasn't bad, then reread Amp's post and saw that the points made wasn't what we didn't like about infinity and he now thinks they felt kind of empty. Hop also says he kind of bought, infinity's ATE response of "hop can't read me because he mispushed me last game" as more likely coming from town than scum which made him need to think more about things.

I'm not getting the same empty vibe as Hop but I still think we need to see more of them.

[Flopz]

I'll count that one as my reads on Amp lol

[Flopz]

I will laugh so hard if flopz is scum making up all these discord conversations

Looooool, don't give me the same amount of creativity you'd expect from Hopkirk and Hectic especially in Mafia, I don't have the ability to meme these reads.

[Flopz]

my gut says flopz is scum and thats why theyre relying a lot on teammates to get "reads" rn. Flopz, what are YOUR personal reads rn?

Most of my reads are my own, I say specifically when it's from a teammate or if they are agreeing with me. I've given my own reads on like all but 1 or 2 posts (tho I included addendums about what my team thinks in some of my posts too).

[Flopz]

I dont think flopz would need to make up conversations at all, but im curious why the team is collectively giving a lot of advice here for flopz. My team isnt giving me as much minus some assistance in reading players i have no meta on.

Isn't that the point of Team Mafia, if you aren't asking the opinion of your team you're wasting a resource.

[Flopz]

Might be helpful for me to add I've played a whopping 4 games here (and 1 off-site) so will ask my team what they think to supplement my own MAfia knowledge and experience.

[Flopz]

Again, what are your own personal reads?

I mean if you want me to just rattle more things off the top of my had I can.

Super's 7, gave me genuine vibes. I think I'll go so far to say that I;m TRing them becuase it was a very nice post and I like their subsequent reads posts.

I initially wasn't much of a fan on Auro, in terms of how I felt their posting style was manufactured but I now think that's just how they post.

Johnny and Amp had bad entrances.

Infinity's opening post felt yuck, overall, they are playing very differently to our previous game where they were a much more purposeful Town.

I like Lilith's postings, especially in regard to Infinity and Auro.

[Flopz]

Lol well u went under the radar well when u rolled scum against me so forgive me if i hold a higher standard than "noob" for you

Huh, not sure what you're trying to say but if you want me to answer any more questions you can go ahead and ask

[Flopz]

Well u said u only had like 5 games but i dont think that matters when clearly u have the ability to play in a way thats townread by ppl and stay out of poe

I'll take that compliment but I would like to add that in both my Town games I had to desperately unfuck myself from being heavily scumread by most players in D1 for my post-style (which I think is a lot better now so should hopefully not get to that point again lol)

[Flopz]

hi Flops :3 can you post those said games, I'll look at them at some point if I'm stumped on reading you

Sure

Game 1 - Town - viewtopic.php?f=51&t=81655 (unlike what Koba is saying, I was in the poes here)

Game 2 - Town - viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81720 (Got thrown partway into Team Mafia lol, which was an experience)

Game 3 - Scum - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84250 (basically coasted by nking Hop and Hectic while being TR for them getting NK lol)

Game 4 - Scum - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84489&p=12190935#p12190935 (infinity almost got my launched D1 and then I got toasted on D2)

[Flopz]

Is game 3 ddd lol

Yh,

Good

Times

[Flopz]

I actually defended you a decent amount in matrix decipher, flopz.

You were also the biggest proponent for my death lol. Regardless, I just feel that you're different and not in a good way. Where's that aggressive Infinity that we all know and love gone? (or maybe assertive is the better word)

[Flopz]

Is game 3 ddd lol

Hop and Hectic have reminded me that you were Windows lol, well I think this would make things easier for you to look at the differences between that game and this one. I can't get away with coasting under the radar becuase I killed my friends lol

[Flopz]

@flopz I feel like I have been pretty assertive, last night I was mostly chilling since the game just started but I've been pushing auro pretty hard and I've been pushing your slot about the read on me as well.

(Also you're wrong about matrix decipher, reread it)

I think I can agree with the differences on your posting today and yesterday, I'll keep that in mind. What was I wrong about in matrix, for me you felt even harder than you are now? When you were onto me in that game you didn't give me a second to breathe but you feel a lot more chill here.

[Flopz]

On the AL+DK part, 129 and 145 seem to directly contradict one another, unless I'm missing something can you explain what you meant in 129 as Koba didn't give a reason so what explanation of the reason did you not like (or was that about Koba's Super point in the vote post, but not sure why you'd tie those points together)?

Chen could you answer the question here pls

[Flopz]

@flopz Lol I just recently reread matrix and you're wrong that I SRed you in that game. I thought your tone was towny and I argued with pooky and others who thought it was manufactured. Maybe you're mixing me up with someone else?

It was after that

[Flopz]

Dude reread the game I got limmed d1 after I replaced in and the only SRs I had were pooky and taylor at the very very end

I'm so stupid, my bad. I've been mistaking you for Bell in that game in terms of pushing me. I'm gonna need to rethink a lot now so in the interrim
UNVOTE: Autumn Leaves

[Flopz]

Koba what are you reads?

[Flopz]

what prompted u to ask this?

I haven't really sorted you so thought your reads would help in that endevour

town: amp, flopz, firebringer
leantown: lilith, amp
leanscum: super, auro, johnny
scum: chenn, infinity

Can you go into more detail for you Chenn read, or actually can you go into mroe detail in like all of those reads. This is a nightless game, nobody has roles, full tranparency will be helpful as I don't see why you like to keep holding things to your chest (Super read, what you were told about Auro, etc.)

[Flopz]

Ok, I think I agree but I wanna see how he approaches me going forward.

I think I'm gonna leave you alone for a day (irl not in-game) so I can reformulate my read on you, having you as a mix between two people rn is not very helpful lol

[Flopz]

Actually, first, can you give me an explanation for your firebringer TR real quick Koba

[Flopz]

Firebringer, you've mainly been memeing with a few points sprinkled in. Gonna leave now so I'll throw my vote onto you

VOTE: Firebringer

so hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow to some spicy substantive content from ya

[Flopz]

i still need a votecount tho

I've been feeling that for a while too lol

[Flopz]

an you go into more detail for you Chenn read, or actually can you go into mroe detail in like all of those reads.

This is a nightless game, nobody has roles, full tranparency will be helpful as I don't see why you like to keep holding things to your chest (Super read, what you were told about Auro, etc.)

his early push onto auro is a scumslip imo, regardless of what auro flips it has a certain kind of sureness that shouldnt have been present at that point of the game.

Thanks for that but can you respond to the second half of that too, I don't want this to be a game where I'm asking you for info drip by drip. Can you just start saying things instead of weird hinting pls

[Flopz]

Spoiler:

Gonna go through the list I guess.

Chen - Chen's vote on super at the start was a bit weird as I quite liked Super's intro.

On the AL+DK part, 129 and 145 seem to directly contradict one another, unless I'm missing something can you explain what you meant in 129 as Koba didn't give a reason so what explanation of the reason did you not like (or was that about Koba's Super point in the vote post, but not sure why you'd tie those points together)?

Auro v Chen feels eh, tho now looking through Auro's posts, he's really chummy with fire, tho fire also made a comment on Auro's general play-style so this could just be players with history memeing together. Tho I agree with Chen's assessment that Auro feels a bit forced.

Fuck sorry I literally forgot about this

Anyway I did not disagree with the content of the message, I generally like/dislike posts based on the tone they give off. I'll try to be more clear in the future which is which.

Oh cool, what exactly didn't you like about the tone?

[Flopz]

They feel messier than they usually are as scum, and I can feel them trying to keep scum on their toes. I also think they would approach me more cautiously as scum, and I liked some of their early vibes.

From my experience Koba can be messy af as town, are you saying it get's ever more so?

[Flopz]

*even

[Flopz]

Spoiler:

an you go into more detail for you Chenn read, or actually can you go into mroe detail in like all of those reads.

This is a nightless game, nobody has roles, full tranparency will be helpful as I don't see why you like to keep holding things to your chest (Super read, what you were told about Auro, etc.)

his early push onto auro is a scumslip imo, regardless of what auro flips it has a certain kind of sureness that shouldnt have been present at that point of the game.

Thanks for that but can you respond to the second half of that too, I don't want this to be a game where I'm asking you for info drip by drip. Can you just start saying things instead of weird hinting pls

nah. gonna keep shit to myself until i feel like its no longer useless


also getting pings from discord that my teammates are giving me their perspective soom tm !~

But why? You tried to keep things close to the chest in ddd and it didn't go well. With it being mountainous I see even less reason to do so

[Flopz]

Spoiler:

Gonna go through the list I guess.

Chen - Chen's vote on super at the start was a bit weird as I quite liked Super's intro.

On the AL+DK part, 129 and 145 seem to directly contradict one another, unless I'm missing something can you explain what you meant in 129 as Koba didn't give a reason so what explanation of the reason did you not like (or was that about Koba's Super point in the vote post, but not sure why you'd tie those points together)?

Auro v Chen feels eh, tho now looking through Auro's posts, he's really chummy with fire, tho fire also made a comment on Auro's general play-style so this could just be players with history memeing together. Tho I agree with Chen's assessment that Auro feels a bit forced.

Fuck sorry I literally forgot about this

Anyway I did not disagree with the content of the message, I generally like/dislike posts based on the tone they give off. I'll try to be more clear in the future which is which.

Oh cool, what exactly didn't you like about the tone?

Most of his posts feel awkward as shit: it feels the same way as when I'm in a zoom breakout room and I'm supposed to do something with someone else

Wait, who are you talking about here?

[Flopz]

They feel messier than they usually are as scum, and I can feel them trying to keep scum on their toes. I also think they would approach me more cautiously as scum, and I liked some of their early vibes.

From my experience Koba can be messy af as town, are you saying it get's ever more so?

They are less messy as scum I think.

Ohhhh, see I'm even reading the opposite of what you're writing lol

[Flopz]

okapoka:
super probtown but mentioned i got her to be scared of the slot by how i described her

nancy ... super is obvtown(expected but lol)

And you disagree with this yh?

[Flopz]

Spoiler:

Gonna go through the list I guess.

Chen - Chen's vote on super at the start was a bit weird as I quite liked Super's intro.

On the AL+DK part, 129 and 145 seem to directly contradict one another, unless I'm missing something can you explain what you meant in 129 as Koba didn't give a reason so what explanation of the reason did you not like (or was that about Koba's Super point in the vote post, but not sure why you'd tie those points together)?

Auro v Chen feels eh, tho now looking through Auro's posts, he's really chummy with fire, tho fire also made a comment on Auro's general play-style so this could just be players with history memeing together. Tho I agree with Chen's assessment that Auro feels a bit forced.

Fuck sorry I literally forgot about this

Anyway I did not disagree with the content of the message, I generally like/dislike posts based on the tone they give off. I'll try to be more clear in the future which is which.

Oh cool, what exactly didn't you like about the tone?

Most of his posts feel awkward as shit: it feels the same way as when I'm in a zoom breakout room and I'm supposed to do something with someone else

Wait, who are you talking about here?

Auro

Now this chain is getting messy. What message were you saying you didn't disagree with?

My initial question was in regard to your reaction to Super's post, whose post you were saying you did not like there. As it seems Super's post agreed with what you were saying in terms of Koba's bad (read as lack of) reasoning that you referenced in 129. So I wanted to know why you didn't like it?

[Flopz]

okapoka:
super probtown but mentioned i got her to be scared of the slot by how i described her

nancy ... super is obvtown(expected but lol)

And you disagree with this yh?

yup. i think super is easily enough viewable as town to anyone who has 0 experiencve with her,

And you do not view her as town because...

Ugh I hate phoneposting, I'm also supposed to be asleep whoops

[Flopz]

Firebringer, you've mainly been memeing with a few points sprinkled in. Gonna leave now so I'll throw my vote onto you

VOTE: Firebringer

so hopefully I'll wake up tomorrow to some spicy substantive content from ya

gonna be a disappointing when u wake up to find nothing of substantive.

maybe u will enjoy my spicy memes tho

You've got buckets of time, I believe in you Fire

[Flopz]

FireBringer – aka Firb

Town

-

#439 lol I kinda love how FB just does not give a shit that their posts aren’t very game-solvey or useful/they’re just kinda memeing – a lot of their posts overall are just filler tbh but for some reason I just really don’t see scum being like this at all. I don’t know FB and I don’t know if they are like this as scum but their tone and the way they are playing kinda fits in with how I think this person would play if they were in a setup they hated and were also town lmao

Thanks for doing a readslist, I feel like there are too many players trying to coast here and some effortposting is always good to see.

I wanted to ask you more about your fire read, I recently subscribed to a "Charging at coasters/lurkers" newsletter so am looking for the juiciest target atm. Why does doing nothing strike you as so Townie, like I can understand the aloofness, showing they don't care about the game as much which is arguably a more townie mindset but is that enough for you to rate them so high when they really haven't exactly done much else?

Btw, to link a post, you just type in the number of the post, highlight it and then click to post button on the right side of the preview screen (near the smilies).

[Flopz]

as a fellow spammer

Can you give me some things to work with lad, I don't want this game to devolve into more pulling teeth then it has already. Who do you think are acting the most scummy atm? Also have your views changed on AL changed?

[Flopz]

Johnny, I just went through your ISO and you're basically just screaming Null. I need

moooooooore

.

Can you throw a cheeky bit of substance my way.

Are you still SRing Chen and Koba or have those changed now? Also, what's your view on the others you haven't talked about yet, it's interesting that you don't have a view on AL or Auro yet so would like to explore that further.

[Flopz]

Woah, also congrats on the kid. Missed that the last time I saw your posts.

[Flopz]

Looking through the posts after I went to bed yesterday, I think I'm reasonably comfortable with a TownKoba read.

Koba seems to be continuing their "I'm right, I have all the answers and I'm not sharing them with anyone, everyone else is below me" shtick which everyone whose had the pleasure to play with them will know and love. This is a nightless game Koba, please actually work with us and not try to solve the game on your own becuase that doesn't help anyone.

I would like to ask is if anyone else has experience with their scum-game and if there are any differences in play-style becuase from what I've seen this looks the same to their previous town game with me.

[Flopz]

have not had time to sit down and write replies/thoughts since last night, planning to do that tomorrow

Hi Lilith, so is this going to happen today or are you saying you're too busy?

[Flopz]

So fire, let's start with a perfectly vague question. What do you think is going on with the gamestate, anything in particular calling out to you, be they SRs or TRs?

[Flopz]

So fire, let's start with a perfectly vague question. What do you think is going on with the gamestate, anything in particular calling out to you, be they SRs or TRs?

I think the game state is kind of slowed down alot. I don't think anyone is particularly screaming at me scum. I think the most i get is i sense frustrations from u and dkoba, for different reasons. Also super is annoyed at koba but that is obvious. As far as reads mine haven't changed in the last 5-6 pages?

We might do well with a bit more focused questions, if interesting stuff was happening i would probably be talking about it

Coolio, so have your AL reads changed or do you still think that they are a bit scummy? (I'm ref 227)

[Flopz]

VOTE: flopz

Yo, wassup...

[Flopz]

@flopz

I’ve promised to try to get to doing stuff today and I’m trying my best to make that happen.

@fire I know and I have a new client this year on top of my usual ones and the new client is a goddamn garbage fire (: (: (:

Oof, well GL with that then. Who doesn't love dealing with garbo

[Flopz]

Coolio, so have your AL reads changed or do you still think that they are a bit scummy? (I'm ref 227)

my autumn leaves read is about at same state as was before. yeah.

What exactly is you Autumn read as I think that's the only comment you've made about them and that's not excatly giving much info

[Flopz]

VOTE: flopz

Yo, wassup...

i think ur scum but u feel townie but like i think ur scum cuz of it idk my ddd vibes are going off and ur around so i said fuck it lets ball

I feel townie cos I'm townie dw, it's fine to trust in your gut and follow your

feelings

If there's anything you wanna ask me, go ahead

[Flopz]

I think autumn leaves is scum. I thought their entrance and interaction with lilith was how he would go about it as scum trying to pocket her. That initial vibe hasn't died but it is quelled in that he hasn't done anything directly that makes me think he is working for townreads or appease anyone, but at same time i think well maybe his alignment dependent on if lilith is scum or town and i want to get a good read there.

Isn't lilith is in his poe rn so I;m not too sure about that. Also, do you have any TRs apart from Auro?

Pedit the first part of this question has already been answered now lol, tho I was just scanning their ISO and 91 was the only time he spoke to her and I'm not really feelign anything when he's talked about her after that

[Flopz]

Flopz, what's YOUR read on Leafy?

I'm still formulating it, I still really don't like their entrance but I feel that as the day has gone on they feel less bad. Tho I'm not sold on anything specific yet, just goinjg through their ISO rn lol

[Flopz]

Super, you've talked about linking your games but I just realised you haven't done it yet. Just a reminder

[Flopz]

Flopz, what's YOUR read on Leafy?

I'm still formulating it, I still really don't like their entrance but I feel that as the day has gone on they feel less bad. Tho I'm not sold on anything specific yet, just goinjg through their ISO rn lol

GTH who would you elim right now?

Hmmmmmmm, I might just say Amp or Chen rn but I'm not ready to commit yet

[Flopz]

Maybe Amp if I had to pick one

[Flopz]

Flopz is mean :/

Woah, after I went out of my way to call you Null. Some people are never happy smh.

What do you think about Koba, are you still SRing them?

[Flopz]

yep I regretted not blacklisting Koba and honestly wasn't thinking much about it at all, I was even considering asking a mod if I could swap games Idk if I'm allowed to say that lol

I don't think we can, I was talking to Hop about the same thing earlier on lol

[Flopz]

anyways I will graciously link a tone of my games for Flopz since Koba only decided to link two scumgames of mine which was a cult game and a multiball game which IMO doesn't represent my scumgame properly considering it's a lot easier for me to be scum as a wolf who has to scumhunt to win/and as a cultist - but tbh I still think I wasn't THAT towny in my cult game

https://epicmafia.com/topic/96131 - this is the game I subbed out of where Koba pushed me and the only game we've played together

https://epicmafia.com/topic/96165 - I'm town in this one

https://epicmafia.com/topic/96118 - another town game

https://epicmafia.com/topic/96010 - scumgame of mine

https://epicmafia.com/topic/95935 - another town game

https://epicmafia.com/topic/95375 - I'm town here too

https://epicmafia.com/topic/95706 - scumgame

Cheers.

Oh wow, this UI is garbage. Is there a way to iso?

[Flopz]

Koba just kinda sucks honestly. They legit do this every game. I thought they were being careful early game but it doesn't look like that's the case.

Koba is Koba. But what are your reasons for SRing them?

[Flopz]

Is limming the new term we use for yeeting people out of the game now

Haven't been here for a while, I know the old term is discouraged now but I still don't know what the new term for forcefully ejecting someone from the party is

I mean just use any other word you like the most, I've been personally toying with 'annihilate' but I'm not sure about it yet

[Flopz]

Fire, what do you think about Amp?

Also, I'm thinking of setting up an Amp waiting room, anyone wanna join, there'll be big Mareep beanbags and hot choccy so we can all stay comfy

[Flopz]

Chenn as a rival cute electric type, what do you think about Amp?

[Flopz]

@Flopz, did you read any of my games/figure out how to ISO okay?

also, I will definitely join you for hot choccy and pressuring Amy =) since I wanna see more from her

I skimmed through the first few pages of your ISO in a scum and town game, some fruit one and one where you made an interesting intro about bridges. I would like to say you feel closer to the town game, especially with a random intro post and in how you've been formulating your reads but I'm not comfortable to completely make that leap becuase it was only a cursory skim of like 10 or so pages of each and I'm not confident in my ability to read players, especially in a game I'm not in.

I still TR you tho and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Also, welcome, there's a jar of mini marshmellows too if you want to ramp up your choccy game

[Flopz]

Chenn as a rival cute electric type, what do you think about Amp?

I don't think there's enough to judge Amp either way. I don't think the posts she's posted so far are actively bad, and I honestly think the reason everyone's so amped (ha!) to go after her right now is because she hasn't been here to say anything so far.

I wouldn't be particularly opposed to pushing her? Just that so far I've seen no reason she's actually scum as opposed to the easiest option to converge on.

So who do you particularly want to push?

[Flopz]

Fire, I've realised you never actually explained why you TR Auro. Could you explain it plox

[Flopz]

I'd like to point out firebringer ostensibly has a large number of posts, but I don't remember a single thing he's actually done this game

Be the change you want to see in the world Chen, up your posts and give us some really spicy substance that will make everyone go "Damn, that's that good shit!"

Also, yes, that is the reason I voted for them.

[Flopz]

This is a pretty boring 1v1 tbh, there's no ad-homs or namecalling. Like if you want to 1v1 at least be toxic or why even bother. Chenn say something really inflammatory to fire, quick, go go go

[Flopz]

Or you could be boring and ask them enquring questions or something equally meh

[Flopz]

But at least do one of them

[Flopz]

I wanted it to be like this:



But I fear all I'll get is:

[Flopz]

I've got you covered

[Flopz]

Ok in all seriousness that was fun for about two pages but we should honestly stop before we screw up the entire game

Woah, but it was just getting interesting

[Flopz]

I agree that Chenn had the better rhymes but I would also say that Fire had the better overall bants

[Flopz]

Sorry peeps, I kind of had my phone charging on the other side of the room while I was reading a book and the next thing I knew it was past midnight with my parents telling me to sleep lol.

That hasn't happened for a while so I was enjoying the moment.

I'll be back come the morrow so speak to you all then

I absolutely loathe phoneposting

[Flopz]

If people have any questions for me you might as well ask me and I'll get round to them tomorrow

[Flopz]

Super you were talking about your falling reads with me, I would suggest looking through the games you asked me to link. I think that'll help a lot more with parsing my alignment, I'm really not hard to read and I think my earlier games will help with that

[Flopz]

Just gonna add, Chenns latest posts are making me feel eh. And I really need to look at Auro again. (DW AL, I'm getting to you too lol)

[Flopz]

Amp and Lilith, I'm looking forward to those catch-up posts too

[Flopz]

I'm also liking fire a bit more but I really don't like a full-tone read, that's something a bit too spooky for me to jump into. Will probably ask the H-twins on what they think tomorrow and will come back and say more things

[Flopz]

flopz and his buddies were SRing me at the beginning, but then backed off because part of the case was based on misremembering meta.

I should probably add here, they never thought you were someone else, just me. They haven't said anything different regarding you, that was me backing off. The melons have been too busy when I asked them yesterday to read over your ISO and see if they felt anything different.

[Flopz]

While I'm at it I might as well address the "Team read" shade, most of my reads have been my own, while I have also given what my team thinks to some things those are different to my reads and I always state that. I find it weird that ppl are thinking that it's weird to add in team members' thoughts in TM but whatever. If you have an issue with specific reads could you pls bring them up and not just say "he's relying on his teammates" or sth.

[Flopz]

Phoneposting should be illegal, I will now sleep. Cya

[Flopz]

While I'm at it I might as well address the "Team read" shade, most of my reads have been my own, while I have also given what my team thinks to some things those are different to my reads and I always state that. I find it weird that ppl are thinking that it's weird to add in team members' thoughts in TM but whatever. If you have an issue with specific reads could you pls bring them up and not just say "he's relying on his teammates" or sth.

Weeeeeell, just skimmed my ISO and my early posts do have a "we" vibe to things so maybe I can understand where people are coming from. But I would like to say that most the stuff is me and like all the stuff after those early posts have been all me.

[Flopz]

Ok will actually sleep now bye

[Flopz]

Flopz has over 100 posts and of those not a single one is memorable. I feel like his posting is not from someone who just doesn’t care how they’re perceived (a la Johnny) but who doesn’t really care about solving the game. The nulliest of null posters, which also feels very wrong from someone who is on a team with hop and hectic, and who was just a lot spicier when he was in that hydra with them in the large we were in together. Happy to dead

Lmao, you mean the game that I didn't play in or do anything at all apart from a grand total of two subtstanceless posts that had nothing to do with the game. I was only "in" the hydra becuase those muppets kept going on about making a hydra together.

[Flopz]

Flopz has over 100 posts and of those not a single one is memorable. I feel like his posting is not from someone who just doesn’t care how they’re perceived (a la Johnny) but who doesn’t really care about solving the game. The nulliest of null posters, which also feels very wrong from someone who is on a team with hop and hectic, and who was just a lot spicier when he was in that hydra with them in the large we were in together. Happy to dead

Lmao, you mean the game that I didn't play in or do anything at all apart from a grand total of two subtstanceless posts that had nothing to do with the game. I was only "in" the hydra becuase those muppets kept going on about making a hydra together.

So what does it say that I remember you as more memorable from those like 2 posts or whatever there than from literally anything you’ve done this game?

Becuase one of those two posts was like the dumbest thing I've ever done before so it's not surprising that you'd remember that. I've already said my team has been busy with their own stuff so I haven't got any info from them since the first day of TM. I might be in a team with some intellectual juggernauts but unfortunatley that hasn't carried over to me lol

[Flopz]

Also I don’t really care about what your team have/haven’t done, when I mentioned them I was more talking about the fact that I would expect anyone in that team to tend towards spicy and I don’t feel like I’ve seen that from you at all. I’m not asking for hectic or hop’s takes on this game I’m asking why all of your posts feel like wonderbread

I'm not them tho, I don't have super spicy takes nor am I proficient at this game. I'm trying my best to ask people questions and sort them to the best of my ability. I;m not SHerlock Holmes or some shit, I've been asking people questions and trying to understand their thought processes more, I'm not sure what else people are expecting of me

[Flopz]

I want vindaloo from you flopz, and all I’m getting is korma

Also, ouch. That actually hurt

[Flopz]

hi Flops :3 can you post those said games, I'll look at them at some point if I'm stumped on reading you

Sure

Game 1 - Town - viewtopic.php?f=51&t=81655 (unlike what Koba is saying, I was in the poes here)

Game 2 - Town - viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81720 (Got thrown partway into Team Mafia lol, which was an experience)

Game 3 - Scum - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84250 (basically coasted by nking Hop and Hectic while being TR for them getting NK lol)

Game 4 - Scum - viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84489&p=12190935#p12190935 (infinity almost got my launched D1 and then I got toasted on D2)

Here ya go Men, all my games. (that should say Bell not infinity on Game 4, it's when I got him mixed up)

[Flopz]

@flopz sorry, i don’t mean to hurt you or to be rude, I was trying to be funny with the vindaloo/korma thing! And basically the issue is you just feel very safe and un provocative in what you’re posting and that makes it unmemorable and I tend to think that kind of posting comes from scum more often

I was just memeing back dw, I wouldn't get offended or anything, I just had no retort for that zinger, it struck me deep

Also, yh I get that but I'm not an expert Mafia player or anything, I'm just doing what I can I guess

[Flopz]

Oh flopz, you had to play the normal last year in TM, I’m so sorry

And now this year I can't just camp in RC's fluffy pocket :'(

[Flopz]

Only thing that got me through that game lol, it took like 9 straight months of badgering for Hectic to get me to try and play again

[Flopz]

Disappearing for a bit, will come back and actually do something

[Flopz]

Only thing that got me through that game lol, it took like 9 straight months of badgering for Hectic to get me to try and play again

And I got Koba in my first game back lmao

[Flopz]

UNVOTE: Fire

Kinda just left that there. Gonna start recasing folks now

[Flopz]

@flopz @lili @auro can i interest any of u three in a delicious autumn wagon?

Hmmmm, I’m feeling like atm it’s either a Chenn+AL scum-team or Men (+maybeee Super but I don’t want to vote there) is scum.

I was casing Auro but after all this stuff is happening I started looking more at Chenn and Infinity.

Aside from Chenn being a massive liar about his hyperposting, the only hyper part is the amount of times Chenn has called his posting hyperposting lmao. The whole Chenn V Fire thing was just so meh. Like Chenn didn’t do anything with that and it was a pretty -.- affair. Like Chenn's been talking a lot about how if he was scum his hyperposting would be off the chain and how he would take over the thread. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just do that as Town then and try to push in a Townie direction if they believe they can so easily take over the thread.

I feel that Chenn + Infinity just seem too together this game, especially looking back through the game. With both agreeing together quite often and from both sides.

Tho for Infinity, I do like how they were fair to me after my push against them and didn’t hold it to me after. They also felt a lot better after their first day. Now, their Super push out of nowhere is either really scummy or so out of left field it goes all the way back to town and I haven't finished deliberating over this. So I think rn I would put my vote on either Chenn or Men

[Flopz]

Gonna finish off my Auro case and then I'll go to Men I guess

[Flopz]

I don’t know why they wouldn’t just do that as Town then and try to push in a Townie direction if they believe they can so easily take over the thread.

What do you make of his explanation of why he’s playing the way he is over the last like 2 pages?

Hmmm, it feel genuine to me I think. Like if he was gonna make something up there must be an easier way to do it, that's where I'm leaning rn.

[Flopz]

I feel that Chenn + Infinity just seem too together this game, especially looking back through the game. With both agreeing together quite often and from both sides.

I also found this fact quite interesting. Note to self: Look at this more later

Anyway in general I think "both are scum" is too strong a claim to make, particularly when other explanations can exist: is one buddying the other? Etc

Which is true, it's why I'm only focussing really on you and Menal's slot rn as I feel you are more likely scum than your possible partners.

[Flopz]

@flopz what do you think the implication for others’ alignments is if infinity!scum? What about if infinity!town?

I feel if Infinity is scum, then it's more likely for Chenn to be scum due to associations. Tho if Infinity is Town I feel like at least one of you and Super are scum for your pushes towards them, this will also make Auro more townie as Auro's Super push was based on their reaction to Infinity. Also makes FB more townie as fire has been pretty accomodating to Infinity's "hot takes".

[Flopz]

As an aside, I think that I’m now happy with an Auro TR, I like his progression through the game, especially with him hounding players to get a better undertstanding of them (e.g Amp, AL) and in a genuine way.

Through his interactions with Lilithm I felt that he wasn’t trying to be overly pedantic and was just having a conversation in his own way.

In regard to his current read on me, I think I can understand where he’s coming from here as while in my mind I was just waiting for the lurkers to post their reads after I pushed them, I wasn’t doing too much else at the same time so I can see what he means

Auro, I’d like to ask if Xtomx also agrees with your current view on me or does he still TR me?

[Flopz]

Just wanted to get that post out there because I kept getting sidetracked

[Flopz]

@Flopz I dont really think I agree/understand the last bit because scum can position themselves in multiple places and it's definitely possible fb/super scum would position themselves like that

Maybe but I really don't think fire is scum. Aside from his mainly lackadaisical postings, Fire seems like he’s playing fair which I feel is genuine and there’s no reason for scum to do that, especially in his current position where he’s mainly TR. He could just follow the train to the station instead of trying to inspect the tracks.

Tho you could say that he's tactically positioning himself, he was doing this when Infinity started going on about how Super could be Scum where he easily could've just said nothing and nobody would've batted an eye based on his previous postings. While it could be the case, I don;t think it is.

[Flopz]

I mean lackadaisical in a good way lol

[Flopz]

Also just wanted to check: Flopz you're (relatively) new to the game right? I think I remembered seeing that somewhere but idk if I'm just clowning at this point or not

Yee, this is game number 5 here (with one off-site a couple years back)

[Flopz]

I will say that I didn't like how flopz said "scum is super/mena or chenn/inf" where that seems to easy to me. Scum aren't always people who defend/fight alongside each other, and flopz should know that.

I would normally agree with you but in this format bussing isn't very helpful which is why I'm looking at things in this way. Tho it might not be correct, it's what I've been doing

[Flopz]

I think I want to put Infinity at a Town-lean for me but I'm still fully working on wtf is going on with my reads becuase I'm kinda looking at things in two distinct bubbles atm

[Flopz]

@Flopz why aren't u considering me not pushing autumn is part of the "no bussing" thing on this setup exactly?

I was kinda happy with just leaving you as Town rn, also you were SR infinity and your progression with infinity feels genuine to me

[Flopz]

@Flopz why aren't u considering me not pushing autumn is part of the "no bussing" thing on this setup exactly?

I was kinda happy with just leaving you as Town rn, also you were SR infinity

*before*

and your progression with infinity feels genuine to me

added before

[Flopz]

@flopz @lili @auro can i interest any of u three in a delicious autumn wagon?

Hmmmm, I’m feeling like atm it’s either a Chenn+AL scum-team or Men (+maybeee Super but I don’t want to vote there) is scum.

I was casing Auro but after all this stuff is happening I started looking more at Chenn and Infinity.

Aside from Chenn being a massive liar about his hyperposting, the only hyper part is the amount of times Chenn has called his posting hyperposting lmao. The whole Chenn V Fire thing was just so meh. Like Chenn didn’t do anything with that and it was a pretty -.- affair. Like Chenn's been talking a lot about how if he was scum his hyperposting would be off the chain and how he would take over the thread. I don’t know why they wouldn’t just do that as Town then and try to push in a Townie direction if they believe they can so easily take over the thread.

I feel that Chenn + Infinity just seem too together this game, especially looking back through the game. With both agreeing together quite often and from both sides.

Tho for Infinity, I do like how they were fair to me after my push against them and didn’t hold it to me after. They also felt a lot better after their first day. Now, their Super push out of nowhere is either really scummy or so out of left field it goes all the way back to town and I haven't finished deliberating over this. So I think rn I would put my vote on either Chenn or Men

I find this post really interesting. you're saying you think Chen/Infinity are potentially teamed and you go on about Chen's hyper posting thing (which imo isn't really a tell, them saying they hyper post and then not hyper post is like... NAI and I don't care for that read lmao). I was thinking the same about Autumn/Chen being teamed but something recent which I'm going to get into has pinged me more in the sense that Autumn is trying to pocket Chen more than anything else (I will elaborate). ANYWAYS, I find this post interesting because you say "maybeee super" in brackets and also are scum-leaning Mena yet you had me as a townread early on pretty sure and I wanna know where this progression ever happened? Also, you finished by saying you'd vote in Chen or Mena which imo is weird because you started off saying it was Chen/Infinity but then didn't say you'd vote Infinity - which makes me worry you're actually Infinity's partner potentially trying to get a Chen wagon instead (especially when I think Autumn was trying to pocket Chen earlier and makes me think Chen could very much be town)

would you vote Infinity today, Flopz?

I think I want to put Infinity at a Town-lean for me but I'm still fully working on wtf is going on with my reads becuase I'm kinda looking at things in two distinct bubbles atm

where did this read come from in the time you said that Infinity/Chen were scum together??????????????? huh? Flopz explain

Alright there's a lot to unpack here so I'll go through it bit by bit.

The bit about Chen hyperposting was just a meme, I didn't mean anything by it, it's just funny the only thing spammy he does is how much he spams about his ability to spam.

My reads are fucking all over the place, I am quite at a loss on what's happening especially with the gamestate breaking at the seams lol so I was just explaining the broken tangle of thoughts in my head.
I did/do TR you (aaaagh this is confusing), I just go kinda hard pinged when you said you wouldn't have time to look through my other games to better consolidate your TR on me but then you unprompted, without asking for games, found a Mena game and Iso'd it to show how you thought Mena was Town. It just felt like you weren't actually gonna try to sort me and just keep saying you will. I might be thinking too much into things but I just didn't like that.

I'm kinda just fucking lost lol, and my teammates said that they won't be able to help me until the weekened so I've been trying to understand things on my own in my own way so it's a bit out there I guess. I don't think you could make the case with me being Infinity's partner as there'd be no way I'd do the whole mistakening him for Bell push, I don't see that being possible.

The Townlean on Infinity is a work-in-progress, It's like I think he's both Towny and Scummy but in different gamestates and I'm confused and that I'm leaning more towards Mena scum which means that Infinity would be more Towny and idk, lot's of contrasting narratives bubbling away in my head. I'm planning to properly go over the stuff that Menal was sayign to contradict Infinity's points that they posted while I was going to bed yesterday. I'm also gonna look more at Infinity's townplay in the game we played together.

So would I vote Infinity? I'm kinda working that out rn, this is very hard

[Flopz]

I hope that whatever I just said helps

[Flopz]

Spoiler:

Okie I’m gonna respond to Auro’s case now =)
I think a big part of your read on me is just… not understanding how I play. Me feeling “fence-sitty” is completely normal as town and if you go and read all the games I posted you will see this in my town (and scum games, however as scum I always bus so I don’t necessarily fencesit there lol) – I struggle at finding scum so my focus in games is always to find town, always. I use PoE as my sole way of finding mafia and maybe that way of hunting is ineffective but it’s how I play and probably why you were like “wow why isn’t Super pushing anyone”. I never realise I have to push anyone lol and I’m town so I was never thinking that way at all obviously, if I’m scum I don’t really ever push because I find it really fucking hard to scumread a townslot and push it because it always feels like digenuine and I end up just townreading them lmao whereas as town when I make a push it is very aggressive and comes across different (idk this is dumb explaining my meta unless you know me, but I want you to understand but also feel like me explaining will do nothing blegh). Like at that point in the game why would I make a push on AL of all people when they had just scumread me and outed a paranoia read on me? It looked like a literal fucking blatant OMGUS in that case and even when I was talking to my team about Autumn and how I thought their read on me was bad I was like “should I still push them even though people will legit think I’m OMGUSing them?” and shady was like who cares they’re scum. I was completely AWARE of it looking bad and it coming out of no where but because I felt so strongly about it I still did it and was genuine about it – if I was scum I would be WAYYYY more careful with my pushes, Koba even says I’m this S-tier scumplayer and yet yall think I’d be like this as scum? A fence-sitty mess who randomly jumps in with a strong push out of no where because I feel like “I need to push someone”? if I was scum in this game, trust me I’d be townread a lot more than this because I’d be a lot more careful with my posts/who I’m townreading/who I’m pushing/etc. I hponestly do think I personally would bus a teammember d1 but that’s just me and my confidence of end-gaming alone as scum (lmao, and I literally did this in my last wolf game if you want to see that). I have stances on every slot, Auro, I just trust Shady’s opinion and my mates opinions a lot because Peta has meta and because they are better town players than me and I tend to have paranoia and townread people too easily, I have asked them multiple times to help me and that I’m lost and worried about my reads so me “hiding” behind their reads is bs. I can tell you what I think at all times but I am trusting them to an extent because I think they’re good and they have been reading my game pretty closely (well shady has been but he’s my bf and knows I’ve been pretty upset with the game so he has been trying to help me out and calm me down, plus he also has been getting pissy about this game but yeah that’s another story).

Also I never unvoted Amph in that moment you think I did, I was unvoting Koba not Amph because my vote was on Koba at the time, I’ve seen you mention this several times but I didn’t correct you cos I didn’t think that had actually affected you that much but you keep saying it, I did not unvote Amph it was a Koba vote I had lmao

Xtoxm – how am I playing like scum? O_O also why is my FB read fake? I think I’ve explained that read fairly well? Especially early game? The way you think my emotional feel meh and made up really angers me and is kinda disrespectful but whatever. Like you think I could be town faking these emotions? Honestly such a shitty thing to say to me.
“Your current behavior isn't allowing you to get included in that group for me, personally. Please stop acting in scum-beneficial ways. Please cease the AtE, pockets, and the posts designed to just garner townreads. These are all things I scumread in isolation. Hunt down scum and just give us your *actual* reads and cut out the rest."”
Like unfortunately this is the way I play and I’m not going to change for you, if you can’t read me because of my emotion and how I play and my fluffy posts and being genuine in everything I fucking say then that’s on you. I don’t purposely use AtE, this is just how I express myself and mafia is a game where you are allowed to express yourself in any way you like, if you don’t like that and scumread that then that’s on you and your own fault for scumreading things like AtE or not being able to read into slots who are emotional. I will post my reads but I’m still going to express myself this way because that’s all I know and all I can do – I can’t play like an emotionless robot like some people. It’s just not who I am.

Sorry Super but could you like add some paragrpahs here becuase my brain can't read all that text squished together, I kept zoning out when I was trying to parse it

[Flopz]

I just hopped in bed and skimmed your post and will say yeah I never got around to reading yours games and I WILL AND WANT TO but I'm literally away on a work camp - my teammate linked me that Mena game and I skimmed the intro and posted it

That's fair, I didn't expect you to have done it by now or in the next couple of days lol as you're at your work camp but that's why I reacted hard to you checking out a Mena game. Just wanted to make that clear

[Flopz]

LOL I'm sorry I'm the worst

I swear I used paragraphs but I copy from word and it fucks it

I stand by my belief that the preview button saves lives

[Flopz]

here is this juicy LHF screaming for scum to get an easy miselim, oh yes, but instead they go for (mena??? super?????)

what is this gamestate

i don't see it. how is flopz low hanging fruit

When I was going to sleep yestertday for some reason this post kept swirling around and around in my head. Fire, what do you think of me rn?

[Flopz]

As an aside, I think that I’m now happy with an Auro TR, I like his progression through the game, especially with him hounding players to get a better undertstanding of them (e.g Amp, AL) and in a genuine way.

Through his interactions with Lilithm I felt that he wasn’t trying to be overly pedantic and was just having a conversation in his own way.

In regard to his current read on me, I think I can understand where he’s coming from here as while in my mind I was just waiting for the lurkers to post their reads after I pushed them, I wasn’t doing too much else at the same time so I can see what he means

Auro, I’d like to ask if Xtomx also agrees with your current view on me or does he still TR me?

Auro I want to know what you think about my post on you, do you think this is fair? Also can you answer that question pls

[Flopz]

I just hopped in bed and skimmed your post and will say yeah I never got around to reading yours games and I WILL AND WANT TO but I'm literally away on a work camp - my teammate linked me that Mena game and I skimmed the intro and posted it

That's fair, I didn't expect you to have done it by now or in the next couple of days lol as you're at your work camp but that's why I reacted hard to you checking out a Mena game. Just wanted to make that clear

yeah I can see why you would think that 100% and I literally read like the first 10 posts (and when I say read I mean skimmed) of the mena game and I was hard casing autumn at the time so it was my priority and felt important

if i was casing you/trying to read you sincerely and was focused on you I'd 100% read your games so i could properly read you better and make sure my read is right

if it helps you being annoyed/paranoid of me because of this does come across as towny

it's funny cos whenever i engage with u or read you i get townvibes but my team doesnt like you

I mean I haven't had a towngame where I wasn't in a POE day 1 becuase people get those vibes from me I guess but when I talk to people 1v1 it helps them sort me better

[Flopz]

I should really sleep but I'm sad cos you are always here when I'm about to doze off and I do wanna talk more with you

Lol, you should probablt prioritize rl over this and sleep but I appreciate it. If there's any other questions or things you want me to explain while you're gone go ahead and ask

[Flopz]

I think you wanting me to sort you/read your games was towny and general ~vibes~ I had of you early game was towny but you fell because my teammates all scumread you and because of my current PoE but I definitely am probably wrong somewhere

who would you say I'm misreading in my reads if I was misreading anyone?

Fuck, I don't even know anymore, my brain's kinda just exploded. I agree with Koba being a solid TR and with Fire being high too. I also think Lilith is pretty towny with Johnny being pretty Null. Don't disagree with the moments of genuine stuff from Chenn which I talked about yesterday and my Infinity read is all over the place. I want to say Mena but I was going to go over that to see if I am the one whose messed up my reads there, this response is becoming a mess lol. I didn't read your Auro thing becuase it was too hard

[Flopz]

do you have any questions for me?

one thing I did notice was you wanting me to read you and you always have spoken to me as though I'm town from your pov which sometimes felt like a TMI thing? like you saying "hey super read my towngames and you should be able to slot me easier" or whatever but do you have any questions for ME? like I feel like sometimes your engagement with me is to convince me you're town instead of trying to read me?

does that make sense? lol

After post 7 and then your subsequent reads and general townspew I was very comfortable with you being Town. Especially with your treatment of Koba, as someone who has seen what Koba does you could have easily led a Koba yeet and nobody would have blamed you.

Me saying you should slot me easier wasn't do to with your games but with how I think I can be read easily as town. Cos I was so comfortable with you as town I was basically thinking that if you say I was town this would make things easier to go through the game but I can see what you're saying. Especially now with with your explanations of you going through Mena's game, the reason you pinged me isn't there anymore and I'm just seeing you as Town again. So I wasn't really thinking too much about trying to sort you beyond that which probably isn't the smartest thing to do but is how I was approaching things

[Flopz]

I think you wanting me to sort you/read your games was towny and general ~vibes~ I had of you early game was towny but you fell because my teammates all scumread you and because of my current PoE but I definitely am probably wrong somewhere

who would you say I'm misreading in my reads if I was misreading anyone?

Fuck, I don't even know anymore, my brain's kinda just exploded. I agree with Koba being a solid TR and with Fire being high too. I also think Lilith is pretty towny with Johnny being pretty Null. Don't disagree with the moments of genuine stuff from Chenn which I talked about yesterday and my Infinity read is all over the place. I want to say Mena but I was going to go over that to see if I am the one whose messed up my reads there, this response is becoming a mess lol. I didn't read your Auro thing becuase it was too hard

you don't need to read my Auro thing lol it's for Auro and was me ranting mostly and the paragraph is ugly af lmao I kinda want it to burn for it's fucking ugliness

why has your brain exploded?

maybe ISO Mena for me and tell me what you come to?

My brain has exploded for trying to comprehend this game, I will go through Mena's iso in a bit and say my conclusions

[Flopz]

it's funny cos my teammates said a lot of your posts come across as self-conscious on how you are perceived

and when you said 'this response is becoming a mess lol.' it triggered me cos of what they said like you're hyper aware of your posts or something? I don't necessarily find it scummy cos I literally say the same shit about my own posts but I can kinda see where they're coming from with that

Um, well the main reason I've been scumread in my games is from my posting style which is why I'm being a lot more free-flowy with my conciousness this game and not having more of a stylelised 'gimmick' to how I post. So I think I still feel a bit slef-concious in how I'm saying things becuase I'm trying to be as open as I can

[Flopz]

My posts before were generally very edited becuase I liked writing in a structured way so it feels very different and a bit awkward when posting like this I guess but I;m getting used to it

[Flopz]

Coolio

[Flopz]

oh really? why the style change? you can probably tell i literally say everything I'm thinking in all my posts which leads me to trouble lol

While I founnd posting like that fun, people found me very difficult to read becuase they felt that I was very unnatural so I've been working on that but it's a slow process. It's not that I don't like writing like this it's just very different from how I normally post

[Flopz]

defs wanna read your games more now to see the difference, might make you harder to read though unless those games you linked was you also being more open ?

Halfway through all my games (apart from number 3 as I was just coasting and didn't need to really do much) I had to 'mellow' out my posting-style becuase of those SRs so the more helpful posts to analyze would be towards the latter half of the games, the difference is with this game I'm going for full transparency without any kind of gimmick or style from the start but you'll see similar to this when I talk to people in other games 1v1 (as there's no time to edit) or just later in the game where I was making myself less edited (but not as fully open as this game tbh)

[Flopz]

goodnight Flopz =)

G'night

[Flopz]

I've been trying to get back into this game but this is kinda getting a bit much for me. Even before this current stuff, I really didn't want to have to play with Koba again and just them this whole game has been a lot. Last TM really took a lot out of me and I just don't want to have to go through that again. I'll give it a couple days and hopefully this stuff calms down and there’s a much more mellow gamestate.

[Flopz]

Well I've had a decent break from here lol and have used the time to actually work out a workable POE.

Townlock

Super/Joqiza
Lilith
Menal

Townread

Infinity
Koba/Math
Fire

Townlean

Auro

Null

Johnny

Scumread

Chenn

If we just eject upwards we'll eventually win the game

[Flopz]

Don't wanna get force replaced so just posting this as is now, will return sometime in the evening

[Flopz]

VOTE: Chenn

[Flopz]

While I'm not against this wagon, Johnny is second on my POE, I'm not the biggest fan of Chenn starting the wagon and I'm worried that on a Town-flip, people are just gonna push Infinity again. It is quite curious that with all the shade that's been applied Chenn hasn't really got voted and I'd rather a lim there.

[Flopz]

@Flopz

Can you explain the basis of your Chen scumread? My understanding from reading your posts is that you'd suspected a Chen/Autumn team, as you'd felt they'd moved together. Your progression from, "Chen/Autumn might be a team," to "Chen is scum, but Autumn is town," doesn't feel clear to me.

My reads have been a mess lately lol. As the game went on Infinity started to feel more town to me but I still didn't like the associations between Infinity and Chenn, tho now I feel that it's all from Chenn's side and not Infintiy.

The Townlean on Infinity is a work-in-progress, It's like I think he's both Towny and Scummy but in different gamestates and I'm confused and that I'm leaning more towards Mena scum which means that Infinity would be more Towny and idk, lot's of contrasting narratives bubbling away in my head.

I think here is a good explanation on my mind being a tad lost at that time lol

Through that I was feeling more comfortable with my Infinity read but was progressivley not liking Chenn. I think good examples of that was the complete Nothingburger that was Fire v Chenn, I kinda expected that if Chenn was Town he would have actually tried to do something with that but he basically just did nothing, no questions to fire or trying to read him through that, just a smidge of memeing before just disengaging from that. Also, Chenn's push on Lilith about her 'treatment' of me felt reaaly bad faith. Lilith's progression on me has always been pretty clear and she wasn't hiding that she was TRing me when she made that initial vote to bait a wagon. It felt to me that Chenn was making a mountain out of a molehill to throw shade at a pretty townread slot.

[Flopz]

Chen's individually scummier than AL, but Chen's actions have made sense as an AL partner, don't wagon movements show AL as the better elim though Flopz? (Refer previous arguments this page re: resistance, etc) From that alone I feel AL elim should precede Chennis.

I think Infinity and Menal was TvT so Scum were just waiting to see what happens as at that point there was still several days left and still is tbh. wow how do we still have over 6 days left. idk Johnny kinda has a LHF vibe rn and I fear that this can also be used to push for an Infinity lim D2.

[Flopz]

Comfortable presence on Johnny wagon while AL vote needs consideration -> AL partner equity.

Hmmmm, or people just don't think Infinity is scum but basically nobody has positive reads on Johnny so it's a lot easier but I can see where you're coming from

[Flopz]

idk Johnny kinda has a LHF vibe rn

Such a slot is better gone earlier than later, though, no? I'm not really expecting Johnny to swoop in and town it up [and that's okay, have fun with the baby Johnny ]

Yes, they are second in my POE but I want Chenn gone first as they are the scummiest here, and bottom of the poe independant of Infinity

[Flopz]

people just don't think Infinity is scum

Do we have a list of people who have expressed townreads on AL? There's you, Fire... Chennis? Who else?

There's a list somewhere but idk if it's changed since then, I'm just saying that Johnny is a much easier wagon to make than Infinity regardless of both their alignments and it's not very hard to make that claim

[Flopz]

Such a slot is better gone earlier than later, though, no? I'm not really expecting Johnny to swoop in and town it up [and that's okay, have fun with the baby Johnny ]

Yes, they are second in my POE but I want Chenn gone first as they are the scummiest here, and bottom of the poe independant of Infinity

My main gripe on the Johnny wagon is that it was started by the scummiest slot which makes me hesitant to put my vote there when I'd othwerwise be fine with it

[Flopz]

do u think im scum? Cause ive been the biggest person against autumn wagon and i don't see who else is scum trying to ensure it doesn't happen?
maybe chennisden but who else?

I don't think they need to be explicitly loud voices, I think I'd go Chen then {Lilith/you} if game doesn't end.

Menal makes a good point here actually, in that scenario why is Lilitih in your POE after Infinity and Chen?

[Flopz]

Chen's individually scummier than AL, but Chen's actions have made sense as an AL partner, don't wagon movements show AL as the better elim though Flopz? (Refer previous arguments this page re: resistance, etc) From that alone I feel AL elim should precede Chennis.

I think Infinity and Menal was TvT so Scum were just waiting to see what happens as at that point there was still several days left and still is tbh. wow how do we still have over 6 days left. idk Johnny kinda has a LHF vibe rn and I fear that this can also be used to push for an Infinity lim D2.

How do you think Infinity and Menal is TVT while scumleaning (?) Menal.

What? I have Menal as locktown, you're looking at some old reads of mine lol

[Flopz]

do u think im scum? Cause ive been the biggest person against autumn wagon and i don't see who else is scum trying to ensure it doesn't happen?
maybe chennisden but who else?

I don't think they need to be explicitly loud voices, I think I'd go Chen then {Lilith/you} if game doesn't end.

Menal makes a good point here actually, in that scenario why is Lilitih in your POE after Infinity and Chen?

Now you’re listening to Menal? Wtf?

(Stopped here lunch break is over)

Define listening? Men question marked something Auro said that I thought was interesting to follow-up on. I think you're super jumping the gun rn

[Flopz]

In terms of who we'd bring into the block of me/Mena/Auro/Lilith as the fifth, I would be okay with Firebringer at the moment but this is the kind of read that is contingent on flips. If Johnny flips scum I think he might spew Kobaslot town.

Damn, I'm pretty hurt rn

[Flopz]

I would obviously prefer that order, but does anyone in principle disagree that the best 3 slots to flip until scum!hit are infinity/math/me ?

I'd still rather kill Chennisden first. I'm not super comfortable with decision trees just yet, we've not had any real tension from wagons yet.

Chen's individually scummier than AL, but Chen's actions have made sense as an AL partner, don't wagon movements show AL as the better elim though Flopz? (Refer previous arguments this page re: resistance, etc) From that alone I feel AL elim should precede Chennis.

In a world where Johnny is town it's possible he's scum pushing me to set me up after Johnny flips town, because I think it'd be pretty easy to do so

Oh this makes sense, he just avoided the Johnny wagon and placed a vanity vote on you.

VOTE: Flopz

I will vote Johnny or Autumn today I'm not voting outside of those two.

I currently think Flopz is the slimiest.

Flopz

Ok my tr on flopz is like entirely evaporated now

M U R D E R I Z E

This all just feels yuck to me

For some reason you decided to ally with your scummiest slot to push me who then also decides to jump in to scumread me too. I;m really not a fan, especially on your "vanity vote" comment considering I voted Chenn before there was a proper Johnny wagon, only Chenn and Lilith were voting for them at the time so I don't see how I was avoiding the wagon when it formed the day after I made my vote. We literally had a back and forth on my opinion on the Johnny wagon yesterday so you all of a sudden agreeing with Chenn here feels pretty forced to me as you didn't say anything like this yesterday (3250-3252 is the main part of that convo)

[Flopz]

I just checked and despite Chenn being your most SR slot at the time you never actually voted for them

[Flopz]

chenn you seem pretty chill about the fact Flopz is hard tunneling you rn

I think it's not very likely it comes from a place of scum

chenn you seem pretty chill about the fact Flopz is hard tunneling you rn

I lied and I care now

In a world where Johnny is town it's possible he's scum pushing me to set me up after Johnny flips town, because I think it'd be pretty easy to do so

Flopz

Ok my tr on flopz is like entirely evaporated now

So what changed becuase I was voting you before there was a Johnny wagon and I've made my reasons for not joining the wagon pretty clear i.e you leading this wagon makes me wary that Johnny is in fact town even if he's second in my poe. Not too long ago I was one of your biggest Townreads so this is quite the jump.

[Flopz]

I offered logic for the same.

And I'm scummier than your prevously most scummy slot because? And what's your view on Chenn now then?

[Flopz]

I don't see how I was avoiding the wagon

When AL and Johnny were competing wagons you avoided placing a vote on either: sure you talked about it, but overall you still avoided that.

If it's of any interest, I'm also allying with Autumn Leaves in a way.

My argument was that even though I found Chen individually scummier I'd rather have AL precede it.

Would you be willing to vote Johnny now?

No because it's led by my biggest scumread

[Flopz]

you leading this wagon makes me wary that Johnny is in fact town

Okay I just saw this

Yes, they are second in my POE but I want Chenn gone first as they are the scummiest here, and bottom of the poe independant of Infinity

Such a slot is better gone earlier than later, though, no? I'm not really expecting Johnny to swoop in and town it up [and that's okay, have fun with the baby Johnny ]

My main gripe on the Johnny wagon is that it was started by the scummiest slot which makes me hesitant to put my vote there when I'd othwerwise be fine with it

Auro I said this to you yesterday???

[Flopz]

Also I talked a little more about Flopz, X townreads Flopz (prior stance unchanged) and shrugged off the reasons stated against him, in fact to such an extent that Flopz is the only player he's currently considering would be in the "final block". He says this is based off his familiarity with town!Flopz as I understood it, but then again says he doesn't have any strong reads.

Has Xtomz's read changed from this too?

[Flopz]

No because it's led by my biggest scumread

Are you sure Chen's "leading" it? Sure he was the first vote but I don't certainly wouldn't say he's leading that wagon...

Pedit: yes, you talked about it, but I'm evaluating the lack of vote either way by itself

The fact that he's the first vote on the wagon makes me feel wary

[Flopz]

What's your take on Shirou?

Probably Town but I don't see much of a reason to follow up on that read because travelling up my POE will hit 2 scum before it's over (I was already TRing Fire, so don't need to think too hard on that slot)

[Flopz]

chenn you seem pretty chill about the fact Flopz is hard tunneling you rn

I think it's not very likely it comes from a place of scum

chenn you seem pretty chill about the fact Flopz is hard tunneling you rn

I lied and I care now

In a world where Johnny is town it's possible he's scum pushing me to set me up after Johnny flips town, because I think it'd be pretty easy to do so

Flopz

Ok my tr on flopz is like entirely evaporated now

So what changed becuase I was voting you before there was a Johnny wagon and I've made my reasons for not joining the wagon pretty clear i.e you leading this wagon makes me wary that Johnny is in fact town even if he's second in my poe. Not too long ago I was one of your biggest Townreads so this is quite the jump.

If it helps it's because a) I'm running out of scumreads and b) it's because of what joqiza pointed out

It's not really your play between then and now that has anything to do with it here. It was just me reevaluating.

Would you be kind enough to give a quick tiered readslist so I can see what you're all about?

[Flopz]

Fwiw I think Johnny is more likely to be scum than you here. And I also think you town him scum is possible.

I'm feeling a whole lotta shade from you and Auro rn, it feels like you are trying to position against me on a Johnny town flip. So what would you do on a Johnny scum flip?

[Flopz]

Can we have Chenn's tiered readlist before we go jumping the gun pls

[Flopz]

anyway whatever this is a tomorrow problem right

It's not too late for a new wagon

[Flopz]

We survive for today
And solve tomorrow's problems some other day

Or we can just solve the problem today?

[Flopz]

he who doesn’t deserve to be named

????

I don’t want to talk about ABR. It will turn the game toxic. So instead he’s Voldemort

I don't think anyone is going to bring him up at all or would bring about toxicity from you invoking that name so it's probably better to not tiptoe around him like that as it just makes things worse tbh

[Flopz]

Couple of things to say before I go into the Shirou proposition

First, Auro scumread me for not being part of the Johnny wagon and joing a vanity wagon instead while then having his own vanity wagon by voting for me. He also has 180'd his read and is back to TR me and idk what he even believes at this point. Auro is plenty scummy from my pov.

I also do not like Chenn+Shirou and think there's a good chance of a scumteam here and there's been quite a few meh things about Shirou's play that I want to talk about (with Hop's help):

Shirou hard townreads Chenn for like no reason and both Chenn/Shirou's votes on the Johnny wagon were bad - Chenn was first/not seriously pushing Johnny and Shirou only joined the wagon after it became clearly leading to a lim.

Shirou's saying that Shirou/Chenn/Math + Auro/Flopz is one pool where there's 2 scum at one point based on the townblock then ALSO say that if me and Auro flip town they'd be more interested in pushing in the townblock afterwards. Completely ignoring Chenn there.

Chenn also immediately refused voting Shirou out as well and their trajectory on agreeing here is so bad.

Also Hop says Johnny has a history of bussing partners and then Johnny never actually voted on Chenn is a bit bleh

Tho after Shirou is all but guaranteeing they'll self-vote if there's a D3, I see no reason to join this as it's two bird one stone.

VOTE: Auro

[Flopz]

Tho after Shirou is all but guaranteeing they'll self-vote if there's a D3

Oh I saw this right as I was leaving

One of the huge glaring problems with shirou is how much effort he’s putting in to avoid doing this D3 and I have very little faith that he actually will

And then we just vote him then

[Flopz]

Hop (he said refer to him as acting as an independent advisory body) independently hard agrees with my TRs on Liliith, Menal, Joqiza and Infinity. So we just need to clear the POE and ezpz

[Flopz]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is just yelling at me becuase he's saying that Shirou's alternative strategy of voting off Me/Auro/Maths which leaves Shirou/Chennis/Lilith, Menal, Joqiza/Infinity and that Him and Chennis will never be be the least scummy of the townblock so he has to take a crazy gambit or he just loses

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is just yelling at me becuase he's saying that Shirou's alternative strategy of voting off Me/Auro/Maths which leaves Shirou/Chennis/Lilith, Menal, Joqiza/Infinity and that Him and Chennis will never be be the least scummy of the townblock so he has to take a crazy gambit or he just loses

What the fuck

Mena/Joqi/Lilith are all up to eliminate Infinity

Infinity > Math > Auro > Flopz is 4 eliminations for Chennis/Shirou. Exactly more or less the plan I would recommend us doing.

But again, maybe you're just scum.

We don't believe you will self-vote tomorrow but it's fine, prove us wrong

That's literally the thing you want to do but just taking yourself out of the equation, you said you want to do me n Auro and then Math and then you implied you want to vote/"reconsider" one of the town block. The person we think is your partner is literally against this strategy of voting you. You're not gonna self-vote tomorrow but it doesn't matter, we'll follow your plan.

[Flopz]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

Before I vote a townread, I need to be 100% certain that there's enough support to make a deal like this. You, me, shirou, and maybe math would be votes, but mena maybe seems like he's backing out?

Oh yh defo, we need 5 of us to agree (not Shirou or Chenn) that Shirou is getting voted tomorrow regardless of him obv attempting to squirm out of it when it happens

[Flopz]

Tbh I still think it's shirou/mena, maybe I'm insane.

So join in the Auro vote and we lim Shirou tomorrow, it's just that easy

Before I vote a townread, I need to be 100% certain that there's enough support to make a deal like this. You, me, shirou, and maybe math would be votes, but mena maybe seems like he's backing out?

Oh yh defo, we need 5 of us to agree (not Shirou or Chenn) that Shirou is getting voted tomorrow regardless of him obv attempting to squirm out of it when it happens

Hopkirk also says not Auro

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is also an idiot

[Flopz]

@Flopz

You do realize however that you're the third in the list right?

You do realize that tomorrow, the self-vote is according to you being the third, right?

Yes, we are happy to popcorn it

[Flopz]

Hopkirk said "*Hopkorn it"

[Flopz]

Hopkirk is a massive idiot