Mini Normal 2334: trees (Day 6)
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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whyIn post 31, Thomith wrote:
Hmm.In post 27, SaltiestCactus23 wrote: expecting the two of us to lead town to another perfect win ccs
Probably a joke, but I'm not too sure how much I'm liking this post.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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so i dont understand why you aren’t voting somewhere Rational-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VOTE: DrNickRivera
I think if RationalMadman truly holds the (wrong) belief that not eliminating Day 1 is best, he’s likely going to have a similar entrance as either alignment.
Town reading him over it feels like you might have too much information-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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And @RationalMadman, yes you are incorrect. There is empirical evidence that good townplay and good town players can achieve a Day 1 scum elimination much better than random chance.
No one is going to vote no elimination with you. If you want to be productive and helpful, stop wall posting about that, and either join a wagon or at the very least start commenting on what you think people’s alignments might be-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I almost voted Rational out of annoyance too
I don’t think Elements’ vote is particularly scummy-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I haven’t particularly tried to be towny or do anything this game yetIn post 124, Grovyle in a Fedora wrote: ok fuck it ill cause drama VOTE: dannflor
the paranoia won
dann why are you town
I thought it was scummy you town read me in the first place lol-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I’d probably be more involved if this game started not on a weekend, until monday you’ll probably be getting half-ass dannflor
I’ll try to actually read thoroughly tonight if i get some time though-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think Grovyle is probably town being one of the only slots in the game to try and get discussion away from the RationalMadman discourse
I think the attempt to stir up something "spicy" by pushing me and then moving away or getting bored when he didn't really get a reaction is probably town
there's a whole lot of noise in this thread so this read isn't exceptionally strong, but grovyle is at least trying to cut through that noise to some degree-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you're probably the closest thing I have to a scum read at the moment-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think this is kind of a weird response given I know you're pretty comfortable entering the game as noncommittal and with no reads as scumIn post 321, Hu Tao wrote:
who are you? Why do you know me so well! How did you know I was townIn post 242, DrNickRiviera wrote:
I would tend to agreeIn post 239, Hu Tao wrote: I think elements may be town
As much as I hate this non-committal play.....coming from you I think it kinda makes you town hehIn post 241, Hu Tao wrote: No one I'd really standing out as a scumread so far I think this is the closest to one VOTE: salty-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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can you describe this readIn post 248, DrNickRiviera wrote: I think Dann is solidly town here-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I'm scum reading Hu Tao and DrNickRiviera.
I think 111 and 113 from the Dr are more likely to come from scum.- the argument itself feels focused on catching Thomith in an inconsistency instead of trying to look at the tone or context surrounding Thomith's vote and unvote
- the way the argument is presented as "everyone look at Exhibit A" is the kind of performative 'talking to the crowd' type rhetoric that comes from scum a lot more than town who think they are onto something
I also don't understand why they have me as solidly town that feels out of nowhere
*****
I think Hu Tao's reaction to me in 333 is weird. There's not much genuine frustration here or an attempt to engage me, instead the focus is on the fact that Hu Tao was trying to reaction test, which feels overly LAMIST and honestly I expect more from town!hu at this stage in the game.
I also don't really think SaltiestCactus' posts are scummy but I do think they are the kind of low-hanging posts that scum like to jump on.
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as for other reads, I'm fine having Grovyle as town for now. I think elements is probably town too. I think her trajectory on Rational doesn't really make sense as scum. I think her initial vote is very visibly weak and I don't think scum makes such an optically bad vote. in general, I think at this point most scum players are going to be town reading Rational (maybe regardless of his alignment)
I think Rational probably leans town and that's probably the simplest answer to his frenzied posting, but I'm not as sure as I'd like to be. I think there's a certain point where most people, even if they strongly believe in what is optimal, will give in out of frustration or try to amicably work with people in some fashion. Rational not letting go of his "no eliminate on D1" philosophy to such a strong degree has me worried he might just be hiding behind that argument
I think Thomith leans towny, I think the way he's engaged so far (especially Rational) hasn't been all that performative and has been keen at trying to get some productive content going-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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i feel like i have more tangible reasons for the Dr but weirdly I'm less confident overall on those than I am with Hu Tao
and I'd like to sheep elements VOTE: hu tao-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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yeahhhhh I have a habit of distrusting people who town read me and town reading people who scum read meIn post 348, KayJayQueue wrote: Because you respond better to being scumread than townread lol
Honestly though, you always sound convincing no matter your alignment so I can’t actually read you/your posts and feel confident either way. I like your opinion on Thom. I think I agree about Rational but unfortunately, their posts do overwhelm me a bit. I’m not sold yet on Grovyle. Cactus is null to me. I don’t have a read either way on Hu. I’ve never experienced scum!Hu so I don’t know if I’m overlooking something obvious.
is there a particular reason you aren't sold on grovyle
I'll admit I think Grovyle is a good player as both alignments and I think there's some chance my read there is wrong but I kind of need Grovyle to be town right now or my bearing in this game just goes out the window
also is there a reason you decided to sheep hu tao out of everyone-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I am also having a hard time getting into this game and I feel myself forcing a little
I guess right now my senses are tuned towards people who are vibing and trying to look town because this seems like a gamestate where scum don't have to do much more than that-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I could vote awesomeming
I don't think they've particularly town told
I don't think they're particularly scummy either-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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you said you don't necessarily agree with voting someone out on Day 1 but you also voted Rational who has been the biggest advocate for not voting someone out, can you explain more on why? do you think your disagreement with Rational's takes mean he's more likely to be scum?In post 292, Gibdo wrote: Ok first post!
Generally, my reads so far are that DrNickRiviera and Elements seem most town to me. It's good to poke at the other players to get a feel for their playstyle before jumping to any conclusions.
I don't necessarily agree with voting on D1 but trying to turbo end DP1 without any kind of info gathering or reads is really scummy.
No major scum reads thus far, but if I had to point fingers it would probably go to VOTE: VOTE: RationalMadman because I just disagree with the game reasoning the user put forth overall. Mafia can't get too much of a PR read on DP1 since everyone is finding their footing anyway and posting without any real substance.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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vibes
and I have more experience with hu tao from other games-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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*post* 100 */post* but replace asterisk with brackets and 100 with whatever number post number you want-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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can you case elements because im not seeing itIn post 399, Grovyle in a Fedora wrote: team is probably something like gibido/cactus/elements atp but knowing myself thats probably only 2/3. i don't think this is a difficult game though even if part of that is wrong tho (unless it is a hard game in which case good luck yall im always dead before limlo)-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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it's not really the initial vote but the trajectory afterwards
people called it like opportunistic but i think an actually opportunistic!scum vote would have invented some reason for Rational to be scum, elements fully admits that she isn't voting Rational because she necessarily thinks he's scum, at least not until later in the game-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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the last time you said i had such a “holy bad vote that i might actually be scum” i was town btw
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VOTE: hu tao
I have too much respect for you to think you are making these posts as town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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A. I give most people the benefit of the doubt because I’m constantly doubting my own scum reads, I think you likely know thisIn post 432, Hu Tao wrote:
This is an interesting response. Considering you said I'm scum, but this mindset implies I'm townIn post 431, Dannflor wrote:the last time you said i had such a “holy bad vote that i might actually be scum” i was town btw
B. You’re first instinct when interacting with me is to attack logical inconsistencies, not try to engage me in anyway that’ll help you read me or me to read you, and I’m pretty sure you can do better-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I agree with this pretty much such that I don’t mind the bandwagon there and I don’t think Rational is an easy write-off town read like a lot of people are assumingIn post 433, Gibdo wrote: I think Rational is mostly just contributing to a line of discussion that isn't very productive for the town. (Elements was a little bit too, but I got the vibe that she was moreso trying to pick apart the idea, which seems towny to me.) I have a scummy-ish read on Rational but it could just be a more confrontational playstyle, idk.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I don’t think most scum players generally like to look like they are just pushing a policy vote-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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VOTE: Thomith
Thomith can you tell me which votes on Rational you think “stink” and why?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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my reads are fluidIn post 479, RationalMadman wrote:
Why did you vote me and now Thomith? Looks opportunistic, trying to be the 3 or 4 of 7 seeing what sticks. Very strange.In post 477, Dannflor wrote: VOTE: Thomith
Thomith can you tell me which votes on Rational you think “stink” and why?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think I've settled on you likely being town but I think Thomith might be whiteknighting you a bit too hard
gun to head I think the wagon on you is town driven right now-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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hu tao said that she thought I was scum trying to get her out early because in previous games where she was town and I was scum I had been eliminatedIn post 508, Thomith wrote: I'm not sure what the point of this post was?
which is like, factually true, but that also implies that I'm for some reason specifically afraid of hu tao "catching me," and I was dubious that hu tao would actually believe that-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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gun to head, do you have a read on Rational right now, Thomith?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I empathize with Elements' Rational vote even though I think Rational is probably town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Because I think Rational's posting is actively harmful to Town EV at worst and annoying/creating disengagement at bestIn post 554, Hu Tao wrote:
WhyIn post 552, Dannflor wrote: I empathize with Elements' Rational vote even though I think Rational is probably town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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okay, well, I just kinda think you're making that read upIn post 555, Hu Tao wrote:
I don't want to say yetIn post 548, Dannflor wrote: What do you think my reaction would be-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I think his posting feels unagenda'd and like he's trying to figure out the gameIn post 557, Hu Tao wrote: Anyone not voting salty can they tell me why salty could be town?-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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same reason I half wanted to eliminate Random Nurse, the innocent child, in our last gameIn post 563, Hu Tao wrote: Why would we want to eliminate him.-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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sure, I also don't think it's unlike scum!you to be cagey for no reasonIn post 564, Hu Tao wrote: I could just make something up if that was the case-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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In post 437, Gibdo wrote: Dann and Elements (possibly can throw in Grovyle) are thinking almost exactly as I am, seem town enough for me for now
I haven't talked about gibdo yet but I think they lean town after these postsIn post 438, Gibdo wrote: I've played a few games with only Dannflor, and maybe I'm misremembering, but criticizing others' reads of him doesn't seem like his scum playstyle.
For context, Gibdo is an IRL friend I invited specifically to play this game. As far as I know he has no experience in forum mafia, his experience with me is relegated to a few face-to-face mafia games we played years ago.
- I think his attempting to pull some meta (no matter how outdated it might be) from those face-to-face games is probably indicative he's genuinely trying to solve me
- I think his statement that he's thinking almost exactly how 3 other players are thinking is somewhat unlikely to come from scum. I think that framing looks kind of blatantly sheepy and pockety and I think scum, especially scum that might feel a bit awkward about this format would be hesitant to avoid that
- above all I think Gibdo not really playing or even mentioning the newbie card at all and just throwing himself into figuring things out as he goes is indicative he's just interested in solving the game rather than looking town-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Anyway I'm not saying I want to eliminate Rational I'm just saying I empathize with the emotions that lead to Elements' vote-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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idk I think my Grovyle town read is getting weaker on the basis of other town reads getting stronger
and also the fact that i think his solve in 399 is somewhat likely to be 0/3
they also keep talking about how elements is scum but don't really seem engaged in pushing that convincingly-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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hu tao is maybe trending upwards but im stubborn and dont want to admit it-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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idk I kinda liked how they reacted to me criticizing their town read on me by doubling down-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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That’s fine I’m not wildly confident on Gibdo or anything-
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Dannflor he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I’m also not calling you scum just thinking out loud that my top town read of you has degraded somewhat-
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