Toriel's Patience (end)

[Aristeia]

Hello i'm rusty, pls curry me.

[Aristeia]

did i misunderstand the setup?

if toriel is mafia we want to go blood

and if toriel is town we want to go pacifist

is the basic gist? so we do have to sort toriel

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Keyleth

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Brown Eyes

[Aristeia]

its strange that you are saying mandate is "griefing" you because doesnt that assume mandate is town?

[Aristeia]

like if mandate is mafia and you're town then this wouldn't be a grief it would just be hyper aggression lining up lims and seizing thread control - your lack of any suspicion of this push is kind of ?? to me.

[Aristeia]

this is the definition of griefing I'm using.

like I don't see how it's griefing if he's mafia because that's just him playing to win condition

[Aristeia]

OH I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN

yeah, and i do think

mandate

might be in bad faith but i have counter thoughts

what do you think of the keyleth push

[Aristeia]

what is your read on Keyleth

[Aristeia]

you kind of sound like shiny brass object

[Aristeia]

i dont really want to alt guess you so dont uh confirm/deny i enjoy playing with new people

[Aristeia]

i dont get it tbh, can you explain your vote?

I found keyleth's reaction to being pushed by mandate to be overly accommodative and I think she'd push back more or engage more if she were town.

I want to add pressure to see if something cool will happen.

I think there are some instances in her posting which feel performative in a forced way.

[Aristeia]

you seem to know about this slot, what behavior here differs from your knowledge?

i dont know anything about the slot or the player history.

I just assume people when they get pushed in an overtly overbearing way and they're town find it annoying and will push back rather than shrink away.

[Aristeia]

fufufu

[Aristeia]

THEREFORE DEAR DUNNSTRAL,

Do know that if you claim scum today, I PROMISE to vote for Mercy rather than Fight no matter what! I'm here with OPEN ARMS willing to SCUM IT UP with you if you're red!

You just gotta say the words!

I am legitimately disappointed that Dunnstral has not taken advantage of this glorious offer

[Aristeia]

guys i have a great idea what if we build a town block

I have a better idea lets just kill the mafia

[Aristeia]

Can I be in the scum block? No one is townreading me yet.

I'll townread you after you kill 2 mafia

[Aristeia]

I think this is a good time to ask ourselves if Dannflor is a deepwolf

dannwoooooof

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Aristeia

Am gonna change my vote just for fun.

Or maybe not for fun.

I feel immense pressure what will i do

[Aristeia]

Wish this game had hoods so I could pocket Shirou in one...

DOES YOUR EVIL KNOW NO BOUNDS GIRL?!!1!1

just do it in public instead of the scum pt so we can have fun watching too!

[Aristeia]

So do all who live to see such times as being voted by shiny brass object.

But that is not for you to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the vote that is given to you.

very deep

[Aristeia]

it's LORD OF THE RINGS aristeia

sorry I don't speak geek my pop culture knowledge is strictly limited to anime

[Aristeia]

At the dead of the night, Shirou is met with lovecrafitian existential HORROR as a dangerous thought floods inside his head once again:

if shirou was town this one liner would be at least a twenty page phd thesis on meuhs tendency to use a nonlinear thought pattern to fake thought about the game in order to craft a narrative around her trajectory.

[Aristeia]

shirou is pretty lucky though because my one weakness is that Yahari Ore no Seishun Rabukome wa Machigatteiru is my favorite anime so I have no choice but to let him win if he's mafia.

[Aristeia]

post 300 was totally a shitpost pls do not force replace me Isis. I will play to win condition I promise.

[Aristeia]

it was such a pretty dance it was worth it to lose to her imo

[Aristeia]

sometimes you just have to be a gentleman about such things

[Aristeia]

I think Keyleth is probably town so that makes my read on Taly pretty indeterminate

I'm very happy with my new vote

Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.

[Aristeia]

I think sakura is kinda townie

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: better than most k dramas

[Aristeia]

I think the main thread roleplaying was even funnier at some points though

but maybe that's just me

p-edit: Sakura...townie?

she's got a lot of idc energy

[Aristeia]

they are scum

my pronouns are she/her

[Aristeia]

like it's sort of putting words in their mouth that they should scumread me when Keyleth explicitly wasn't scumreading me and Taly gave little evidence of doing so, why exactly should someone believe that a push on them can only be in bad faith?

I didn't say your push was in bad faith or that keyleth should believe your push is in bad faith. I said the way you went about it is overtly overbearing and town players tend to push back against such an overtly overbearing push esp early in the game - so the fact that keyleth didnt felt like a mafia reaction.

[Aristeia]

Never thought I'd be playing a game with town Dunnstral, but I think it's finally happening!

hype

[Aristeia]

do you not read the posts I write

[Aristeia]

its like I literally just explained to you why I thought Keyleth was mafia and you're like hurr duur ari who is the mafia

[Aristeia]

ok do you want to sell me on why she's town?

[Aristeia]

like what r we even talking about here

[Aristeia]

That was quite some time ago but okay.

it was like 2 hours ago

has she done something that I should be townreading her for since then

[Aristeia]

I am curious on your reads on Shirou/Meuh/Dunnstral which, with yourself added, is the pool of people I am presently thinking about.

they're all at null for me

[Aristeia]

That's up to you, really.

you are saying that I should have changed my mind so I'm asking you what should I be changing my mind for

[Aristeia]

I think pushing Aristeia is gonna be unproductive because they are already very defensive and its gonna be hard to make that go anywhere.

my pronouns are she/her and I am happy to explain any part of my thought process that you would like me to.

[Aristeia]

She is already very defensive. Sorry.

thanks for making the effort!

[Aristeia]

Or here's another way of looking at it, especially if Dunnstral is town.

If the top four townreads of the game collectively are town, even if the first two lims hit town then scum can't compete to be spared until the absolute final spare where scum must secure two consecutive lims on scum without then being punished for having pushed the first one onto scum. That's a really unpleasant situation to be in. Alternatively, you try to secure at least one scum members as a general townread and when it goes down it incriminates a large block of people and town are more likely to be like "well any individual pusher of this could be town since a lot of town did townread this person, clearly" and there can even be some townies who hard push it to the extent that they invalidate themselves.

Scum not being present in the pool of people who are general table townreads makes this game extremely difficult to play for them and is likely to just snowball into a loss.

I don't particularly enjoy trying to do townblocks because I think trying to hunt scum is more fun but if everyone else wants to form a townblock or w/e I am fine with it even if I don't have any agency because it's whatever. A win is a win unless they are like bad and lose in which case I'd just blame them post game

[Aristeia]

I would prefer you find mafia and yeet them and then I will cooperate with whatever townbloc idea you come up with later

[Aristeia]

im p confident I could win this game if it was like just a straight up sparing game and I got to be dictator

[Aristeia]

im p confident I could win this game if it was like just a straight up sparing game and I got to be dictator

me too

in alisae i trust

[Aristeia]

by your logic brown eyes you are mafia because you are just pointing out something rather than interrogating me

[Aristeia]

Ari u tell me if Beeboy is town when he posts we will invite him into our kingdom

i think he's town

[Aristeia]

I will be contrarian and call Beeboy scum.

Whatchu gonna do about it?

you have no power here

[Aristeia]

oh the light it burns it burns

[Aristeia]

Not to defend the person that I am currently voting but do you think that her alt guess on me might be relevant to this? Not really sure how else to phrase this.

I don't see why it would be? Not entirely sure what you're getting at, to be honest.

by your logic brown eyes you are mafia because you are just pointing out something rather than interrogating me

My "logic" obviously isn't to say that that in every case pointing something out rather than asking questions is scum indicative. Is that what you took away from what I just said?

What I'm saying specifically is that I found the way in which you chose to talk about the Taly/mandate interaction bizarre, and seemingly indicative of you being unconcerned with sorting. I guess while we're on the subject, maybe I should just ask – what exactly is your read on Taly? What was it when you made 191 and 194?

I pointed out something in the way Taly reacted to mandate that seemed scummy - I didn't ask Taly about Taly's read of mandate

You pointed out that the way I'm reacting to Taly is scummy - you didn't ask me about my read of Taly.

Is there a difference?

[Aristeia]

I currently lean towards mafia on Taly's alignment currently.

I think it's pretty obvious I thought Taly was scummy when I made post 191 & 194.

[Aristeia]

good night !

[Aristeia]

oops i played board games until midnight and there's 18 pages >_>

might start catching up tonight, probably won't and will do it all tomorrow. I don't think i'll be lurking for too long in this game though.

which board game?

[Aristeia]

sounds like fun

which would you recommend between the two?

[Aristeia]

If I say BE Taly Keyleth Dann is all town
And I also like Meuh Implo Sakura
And add a very gentle townlean on Merlyn

There should be lots of scum in Beeboy Ali Shirou Dunn Aristeia

[Aristeia]

ari

how you feel about me doubling in content?

kind of feel that you're still scummy,

the mandate read flip feels questionable.

if you're town I'll probably figure it out by the end of the day. no promises tho

[Aristeia]

do you want me to go into more detail?

[Aristeia]

im p confident I could win this game if it was like just a straight up sparing game and I got to be dictator

Who would you spare at this point Aristeia?

Include 6 names because mafia kill 3 times in between the spares. You can include yourself but not me.

probably Sakura? wouldn't really be sure atp. Think its probably a bad idea to consider more than one name at a time for the spare route because you'd just giving mafia nightkill targets.

[Aristeia]

i should proabbly be scumhunting and not townhunting but i dont want to bother 1v1ing ari

i dont really understand this

what does scumhunting have to do with 1v1ing me?

[Aristeia]

because i suspect you but dont think itd be helpful for me to sort you by confronting you about it

ok but if you think I'm mafia why aren't you voting me?

[Aristeia]

This is my 30th attempt at playing a nice casual game or something, for ~reasons~ I think this time I may be able to pull it off!

and talking about 30th...I've bought Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection and am going through a nostalgia trip.

Street Fighter 2 was the first game I ever played!

(Mega Drive fans rise up?)

I am also trying to be nice and casual this game

hopefully we succeed!

[Aristeia]

im p confident I could win this game if it was like just a straight up sparing game and I got to be dictator

Who would you spare at this point Aristeia?

Include 6 names because mafia kill 3 times in between the spares. You can include yourself but not me.

probably Sakura? wouldn't really be sure atp. Think its probably a bad idea to consider more than one name at a time for the spare route because you'd just giving mafia nightkill targets.

I think your confidence in post 400 was unfounded.

well I usually am pretty good when I do things one step at a time and if I was a dictator with the ability to interrogate people for a week I'd probably be able to confidently find 1 town at a time.

I think its probably true I am more confident then I should be but I like to believe in myself.

[Aristeia]

because i suspect you but dont think itd be helpful for me to sort you by confronting you about it

ok but if you think I'm mafia why aren't you voting me?

this, you have a black and white way of framing people's thoughts that does not apply to me.

I'm trying to understand your decision making process - that's why I'm asking you.

[Aristeia]

sakura is probably the easiest player in the playerlist to read and she's p townie so far

[Aristeia]

I think the main thread roleplaying was even funnier at some points though

but maybe that's just me

p-edit: Sakura...townie?

she's got a lot of idc energy

i already explained this to you

[Aristeia]

she's more self conscious as mafia and makes posts that feel like she's thought them through more

[Aristeia]

Oh I didn't remember that, sorry

I also didn't remember that because I didn't find it convincing

ok

[Aristeia]

Strong town: Brown Eyes, Meuh, Taly, Mandate, Shirou
Soft town: Sakura, Implosion, Keyleth, Merlyn

Remaining players: Beeboy, Alisae, Aristeia, Dannflor

@Aristeia

If you can convince me I am incorrectly reading somebody as town here I will move you up to Soft town.

Open offer throughout this day phase, no rush.

I think because of your unique position in the game you should take more agency for your own reads/pushes instead of letting others dictate how you go about the game.

you will be judged and I'd rather the judgement be on your reads than what other people made you think.

if you're mafia, I don't particularly want to give you an excuse and if you're town I have no confidence that I would have superior reads to you at this point in time.

gth I think Taly is mafia, I know I can very easily be wrong on this read.

[Aristeia]

I guess I don't really want to explain why I'm scumreading Taly atp because explaining the read takes away the room for Taly to improve because she would then understand my thought process about what I expect town!taly to be doing.

It's like less than 2 days into the game so I'm fine letting Taly do Taly things.

[Aristeia]

sakura is probably the easiest player in the playerlist to read and she's p townie so far

Am i that easy to read?

I bet Taly would disagree lol

I STILL FEEL LIKE I GOT PUNKED THAT GAME

Personally I think it was p obvious she was mafia that game since she was killing mafia left and right but somehow they never shot her but I think its probably easier to point out such things as an observer/in hindsight.

[Aristeia]

ari has this weird fucking knack of kicking my ass into gear but okay

I apologize for making you work hard while I just slack off and sip on champagne I can't help it.

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

meuh

do you actually have reads? i see a lot of explaining on your end that im not getting any defintiive stance from

Mandate hardest town read
Merlyn, Dunn, you, Sakura, also town
Dann, Ari, Shirou, Key, Implo, I've absorbed some of their posting but don't have a good grasp there
Brown Eyes, Alisae and Beeboy exist I think?

explain the mandate tr plz

[Aristeia]

I’ve seen Aristeia get a few votes and when I look at their posts such as 427 and 426 I get this sort of, too cool for school rocker kinda energy that isn’t in the whole what is expected from a villager thing and it was hard for me to tell if the posts they’re making were wolfy to me or just a personality thing. Are they like this normally? It doesn’t help that if I compare their push on Me/Taly to Mandate I can see some clear differences. Basically if we were to go the spare route I would be a tad uncomfortable sending them over but at the same time my curiosity in our very opposite way of playing wants me to see it.

my pronouns are she/her

[Aristeia]

if we ever get to the spare part of the game I have no issue with not being spared as long as I get a voice in who we spare

[Aristeia]

meuh

do you actually have reads? i see a lot of explaining on your end that im not getting any defintiive stance from

Mandate hardest town read
Merlyn, Dunn, you, Sakura, also town
Dann, Ari, Shirou, Key, Implo, I've absorbed some of their posting but don't have a good grasp there
Brown Eyes, Alisae and Beeboy exist I think?

explain the mandate tr plz

Many moments that felt like good, authentic town thought processes!
Mandate has just felt repeatedly like having a town perspective and I feel solid about that
I was going to dig up some posts but I think my time is better spent elsewhere

I would appreciate if you could share a specific instance that you felt strongest about that made you go "so town!"

[Aristeia]

It's unfortunate that I feel this way considering I feel like Aristeia considers her prime directive in this game attacking people's townreads on me and I'm 99% sure if she becomes a consensus townread she will fight viciously to avoid having me as a spare contender but I am not really thinking she is all that likely to flip scum and that makes me feel even worse about the rest of the limited scumpool

what r u even talking about

[Aristeia]

I'm trying to sort meuh by asking her about her thought process on you because I think if she's scum you are a very obvious pocket target I am not attacking her townread on you

[Aristeia]

I'm very very sold on Dann Implo Keyleth Brown Eyes towns

if you're convinced Dannflor is town and you see 4 votes land on him why are you not defending him?

[Aristeia]

I'm not especially worried about him getting limmed.

I'm not going to micromanage every player in the games' votes, I posted my crying emoji and am continuing to think about my townreads and wait for Alisae to do something.

why do you townread Dannflor?

[Aristeia]

Keyleth I don't scumread Sakura I have her as like 90% town I'm just really angsty about losing to the last 10%

I simply don't think Dannflor can present as cohesive a narrative as scum as he did this game, i found it very easy to track exactly what Dannflor was thinking that never entered his posting and then his future posting followed the unspoken trajectory more than the spoken trajectory. Scum try to (usually succeed too) keep narrative cohesiveness from post to post but they usually struggle to have a coherent ""out of thread pov"" that underlines the posts that they actually make. I don't think Dannflor does this successfully as scum.

can you be specific about what narrative/trajectory you're talking about?

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=3&t=91870&user_select%5B%5D=19042

i read this iso and I think mostly he's just shitposting and joking around

[Aristeia]

I don't really feel that shitposting and joking around is any less readable than cases and pushes as a player but if you're interested in something specific you can track the trajectory of his read on me as the game developed. There's a real town thought process there that isn't actually put in words in the thread until very late but it's still there and for scum that kind of thing is usually not there.

why can't it just be "huh this guy is really loud and thread dominant let me fake a townread on him to get him on my side"

[Aristeia]

like what thought process do you think he went through to make a townread on you that is unlikely for him to fake as scum.

[Aristeia]

I've gone through this constant paranoia cycle in my head. Because if we're on the right track why aren't the wolves trying to stop it?
Then I remember it's only been two irl days and I'll have to go through this cycle for a long longer.
Then I wonder why I play mafia.
Then I come back and remember all over again.

I'm having a blast btw.

who is your preferred elimination currently ?

I am glad you are having fun

[Aristeia]

I mean that's exactly the point I made which went over your heads.

He doesn't state a read. But if you read through you can figure out exactly what it is at all times and it isn't a lazy townread.

Why are you going through his posts looking for him to state a read when I said explicitly it's an out of game narrative . Read his posts and try to figure out his read on me

so explain the trajectory and thought process that went over our heads then

[Aristeia]

being a condescending ass when people ask you to explain a townread and you just duck three posts in a row and ask us to figure it out ourselves is kind of wild ngl.

[Aristeia]

I'm not being condescending, you're just asking for something that doesn't really make sense. If you don't see it then you don't see it and I can outline exactly what I think is going on out of the thread in Danns head as the game progresses spending a large chunk of time on it and then you're just going to have to take my word for it, just like you already have to take my word for it. What's gonna change? I don't think I can help you understand my read on Dannflor and I think you are better off asking Implosion or someone else why they like him.

I'm asking you for your thought process on your dannflor strong townread. Your response was that he had a trajectory that is unlikely to be faked. I asked you what trajectory that was. You said it was the way he thought about your slot. I asked you to show me which posts of his gave you that impression and how you came up with this. Your response was that its over my head and that I can't see it.

Whether I can see it is not the point. the point is that you claim to have seen it, hence I'm asking you to explain what you saw.

[Aristeia]

Merlyn this is your chance to be a big player:

I'm gonna keep the kid gloves on for a bit

this is incredibly condescending can you try to be respectful to the other players in the game

[Aristeia]

If I'm being honest I think that there is a very high probability that you're scum who is just cracking under the pressure of me claiming a correct townblock of seven

if your townblock is correct and dannflor is the leading wagon and in your townblock why would scum!Merlyn feel any pressure to come after you and be vote#1 on you when she can be vote #5 on Dannflor?

in fact why would she feel any pressure about your reads at all when you can't elucidate them and your townblock dont even townread each other.

[Aristeia]

like it feels like you're just throwing up garbage against the wall at this point and making up narrative that doesn't even make sense

[Aristeia]

I think I've been quite patient and charitable with you actually and given you plenty of room to operate however you please. I asked you for one town-read because he's the leading wagon and you have him at strong town; I genuinely hoped you could make a good case for Dannflor town because I wasn't seeing it.

I didn't like the way you treated me and others with outright condescension in

I mean that's exactly the point I made which went over your heads.

Merlyn this is your chance to be a big player:

I'm gonna keep the kid gloves on for a bit

I asked for you to stop patronizing us and just talk to us as equals. Perhaps you think you're above us but since we're in this game together there's no reason not to be respectful of one another regardless of what our alignments may be.

I am going to try my best to keep my personal feelings out of the way I read your slot but I'm only human.

[Aristeia]

I don't think a single player in this game believes that Dannflor is getting limmed D1.

I have seen dannflor!mafia get yeeted day one so I don't really understand why you think its impossible for dannflor to get yeeted today.

I also don't understand why it even matters whether he will or won't be yeeted for explaining a read on him.

[Aristeia]

I recognize that I can be somewhat difficult and insufferable for you to deal with so I'm going to take a break for the night and I hope you write out that Dannflor read even if you think its completely pointless. I would appreciate it greatly thx

[Aristeia]

Ari am I gonna run into problems with you if I elect to do nothing about Dannflor and Sakura conflict or am I required to jump in like NO ALL THE VOTES IN THIS GAME BELONG TO ME AND ME ALONE AND WE ARE VOTING MY SCUMREAD. MINE MY OWN.

My precious...

?

[Aristeia]

I said I was going to give you space because you sounded very frustrated with me

I don't really understand the agitation.

I've seen you hard defend your townreads when they come under pressure so it was weird to me when you didn't defend dannflor.

I don't think I ever said I expect you to police every conflict in the game because 1 solo vote here or there is not really consequential.

[Aristeia]

like assuming you're the person I fought with last time we were t/t you basically started screaming at me as soon as I pushed someone you were townreading and told me to shut up and just listen to you so this time its kind of ??? to me, your reaction feels off.

I recognize the way I read people and the way you read people are pretty different so I can see why you'd have a disagreement with me on reads.

I am trying to be nicer and let you carry if you're town. I don't really understand why you seem so fixated on me.

[Aristeia]

something for the anime girlies and scummers

I really liked this ty Taly

*headpats*

[Aristeia]

wound up spending a bunch of energy on board games again. alas

I think I need to not try to keep fully up with this game at the pace it's going, it'll be more productive to just do stuff in the moment.

I'm around if you want to do stuff

[Aristeia]

Relevantly the coalition game that I was in w Ari and Merlyn just ended today and I was scum so I have some extremely fresh scum meta, which is almost never true of me lol

i will try not to do any of them since the result was quite disappointing :X

[Aristeia]

happy birthday taly

[Aristeia]

I will give Taly a townread to follow general consensus

[Aristeia]

Curious, you still Sr me?

i liked your attempts to scumhunt they feel geniune

[Aristeia]

Also I get the impression you have a pretty developed opinion of the thread but aren't inclined to share

thats true.

i dont feel satsified with where I am at and I don't think injecting more noise is going to make things easier.

[Aristeia]

Does anyone have a good radar for reading

Shirou

and want to share? I townread them but I don't know how ironclad it is. It's mainly their heightened response to me the other day.

tbh I read Shirou/Mandate's conversation last night in real time and laughed pretty hard - Mandate's line about DIVINE MANDATE was hilarious.

Thinking about it again today I feel like it would be funny if Shirou walked up to Mandate in the Mafia PT and said hi lets do some kind of weird scum theatre in the thread and nobody will ever think we're scum together so they decided to spam up the thread with some nonsense.

This isn't something I'd pursue as a solve because they're both pretty strong scum players and I am a delicate flower so I will just pray that I'm wrong and that our illustrious town leader mandate is actually town and can actually carry us to victory.

[Aristeia]

I have a lot of weird and strange thoughts and they're often wrong but they're funny to me so I hope you appreciate them

[Aristeia]

That's a lot of faith into someone who could be scum by your logic,

Ari

well if they're town they are an asset and there's a p good chance they can win the game for me which is nice

if they're scum, it would take an incredible amount of effort to vote them out and it won't be very pleasant.

on just a pure probability basis they're town much more often than they're scum.

I'm going to just give them room to cook and hope they're town.

purely on play/meta I would say Mandate's much more likely to be town than scum but I haven't seem them play in a while so maybe they just missed the game and decided to be super enthused or whatever.

I don't really want to get into a shouting match with someone this game it's just tiring to try to be louder than someone else.

[Aristeia]

I have a lot of weird and strange thoughts and they're often wrong but they're funny to me so I hope you appreciate them

Do I know you by another name?

uh this is the only name I go by

maybe Ari for short?

[Aristeia]

What about Meuh?

I have a lot of trouble accurately reading people who are not really active unless they're very meta divergent.

gth townlean because I'd think scum!meuh would feel more pressure to actually do something this game and she's done basically nothing

[Aristeia]

i have no clue about beeboy

I know that shirou's meta on him is accurate in that scum!beeboy will often just not post and flake completely but his posting this game doesn't really move the needle for me at all.

I don't really know what he's doing? and it's not like he isn't here, he does pop in and make comments that show an understanding of what's going on in the thread but he's just not doing much? I dunno how fair it is to expect town!beeboy to be doing something. He does feel pretty calm in response to the pressure which is kind of ??

[Aristeia]

I guess what I'm saying is that I am not sure he's actually interested in solving this game?

[Aristeia]

he feels like he's being a wallflower and his comments about being busy with board games reminds me of his comments about being busy traveling.

i dont want to be uncharitable and come down hard on him because he's such a nice guy and the deadlines are pretty long so I am just waiting to see what he does atp.

[Aristeia]

the ev calculations about sparing dunnstral felt kind of nice and reminded me of our guardians game together but he doesn't feel like he wants to be here.

when he said he wanted to interact in realtime i popped in to talk to him and he just didnt feel like he was very enthuiastic to interact with me.

[Aristeia]

I've explained my reads on everybody. I believe I've gone into at least some detail on why I am reading players as town. It's not really surprising, or it shouldn't be.

can you explain the implosion townread?

[Aristeia]

i dont feel like ive resolved my opinion of

beeboy

, i think its not impossible my grievances are playstyle, yet they dont possess very detailed reads and POV's

i find their thoughts about their wagon somewhat relatable, albeit likely incorrect as i townread several of the wagon

the dynamic of voting should change for the read to become more effective

I liked beeboy's posting on page 53 - he felt a lot more confident than I've ever seen him post as mafia.

[Aristeia]

I get why Implo would get a day 1 pass and I would usually advocate for it (stuff like EV is generally useful and he's posting in a way that feels helpful) but nothing he's said is actually town indicative and we're starving for scumreads... I think that's the exact kind of slot we need to reconsider in this type of situation

Speaking of this.
Do you think implo would have a reason to post the EV stuff as scum.

the thing about the EV thing is that Toriel spare decision doesn't come up until Day 2.5 which is weeks from now.

the maximum power Toriel has is on Day 1 and Toriel's threadpower decreases throughout the game.

If Toriel is town and you're mafia, you want to get on Toriel's good side because Toriel controls 2 votes which is pretty influential.

So like I see that kind of speculation and think about the thought behind it and think maybe this is mafia deciding to get on Toriel's good side.

I also feel it's weird that Dunnstral's reaction to Implosion's spec was to think he's town for it? I guess on a surface level if you're town and someone is advocating to blanketspare you on EV grounds you have goodfeels about that but it just feels weird that he had no paranoia about it at all. I know Dunnstral is a pretty strong mech player and I'd think as someone with a special role he'd be on the lookout for people sucking up to him or trying to pocket him but he's just taking it at face value which is strange to me.

[Aristeia]

like basically what I'm saying is I can see a lot of scum motivation for doing the EV calc as scum and not that much town motivation because the decision point literally doesn't come up so it feels oppurtunistic.

but I have seen Implo do mech spec early in games because he'll think about mech while the game is in the startup phase and be eager to share what he thought so I didn't want to push him on it.

I do agree with Meuh that implo feels like he's just treading water and saying things to look good rather than actually curious?

I do admit I can be kind of biased since scum him just beat me in a recent game so I am trying to not be so harsh with him I am very easily influenced by this kind of stuff.

[Aristeia]

-He feels scared of Ari

i acctually dont understand why so many people feel scared of me I'm trying to be nice this game >.<

[Aristeia]

i am tempted to townbin meuh for picking up on that he feels scared of me because I got that feeling myself and it doesn't feel like something scum says about a t-t interaction - I think you have to read pretty deeply into his posts to actually pick that up

[Aristeia]

Hi Aristeia! I know this isn't exactly the quote in question or really relevant but I wanted to ask because I remember you talking about you would be comfortable taking a sort of leader spot and choosing who to send over with time, do you still feel that way?

I would be comfortable if I was dictator and getting to choose spares.

for example if we're in a game state where one mafia was eliminated on d1-2 and one mafia was spared and we need to spare townies to win and if we spare a mafia we lose, I would want absolute power in my hands to pick spares because I don't have to deal with any paranoia that my decision making is scum motivated since me picking someone else to

spare

is always either town me picking correctly or scum me picking correctly. Noone can argue against me and say scum ari is doing this to advance scum motivation because me picking someone else is always town motivated regardless of my alignment.

I don't feel nearly the same level of confidence now because we're picking eliminations now.

[Aristeia]

I'm not afraid of Implo!scum, I've found it really annoying to push lims on him in the past but to my recollection I've never lost to him and I've never failed to catch them D1 so I don't know why you are this scared.

would you say that if we flipped implosion and he's mafia you would by extension be mafia?

[Aristeia]

I guess I might not have phrased that correctly.

when you say something like "i have never failed to catch implosion scum d1" and "I don't think implosion is likely to be scum today" are you basically staking your life that this guy is town in this game?

[Aristeia]

I'm asking you because this is what you've posted and I want to know if that's your level of certainty on the implosion read

[Aristeia]

like the way this plays out is pretty simple - if you vouch for implosion and neither of you get flipped - we go into the spare path - if you get implosion spared and he's town, awesome but if he's mafia you never get spared does that make sense to you?

[Aristeia]

like if you're going to claim you've never failed to catch someone as mafia on d1 isn't and that person turns out to be mafia, doesn't it follow then that you're not town?

like if you think the standard I am applying to you is unfair why would you even claim that in the first place?

[Aristeia]

I don't have any desire to fight you over your townreads. I am trying to defer more than I usually do because I recognize I can be difficult to work with and you've made it clear this is your last game so it will be the last time we get to play together and if we're both town I hope we can win together - I simply want clearly understood lines of accountability - if you say something you mean it etc.

Personally I don't understand your implosion read, he feels kind of scummy to me, but I'm happy to defer to you if that's what you want.

[Aristeia]

when someone says "I've never failed to catch them D1" about another player I interpret that as a maximum confidence level TR that is basically a stamp in the ground that I am never wrong on this read period.

since you've made it clear you didn't mean that when you said it, I will note it's that way - I wanted clarification and I got it, thank you for that.

I don't think Merlyn's said anything remotely approaching "insidiously toxic" about implosion, she said he didn't do anything outside of his scumrange, I agree with that comment, I don't think she means she'll never townread him, she's just saying she's not townreading his actions now.

I don't really want to stress you out have a good night.

[Aristeia]

I think it is eminently possible to have a correct townread on me right now.

what should I be town-reading from you?

[Aristeia]

i do not think that is correct but that is a towny thought

what is towny about that thought

[Aristeia]

aristeia are you holding back this game

i notice you aren't really death tunneling anyone yet

I don't death tunnel every game and the last time I tunneled someone they were town so I'm trying to be more restrained this time around.

Do you think I should be death tunneling someone? like who and why?

[Aristeia]

i do not think that is correct but that is a towny thought

what is towny about that thought

idk it feels kind of unrealistic in a way that tends to come from town

like it's kind of a conspiracy theory that i don't really think holds any water but the fact that that was sakura's first reaction to apparently learning that information for the first time feels... just unlikely to come from scum

i don't know how else to explain it other than like i don't think scum ever thinks they can or should intentionally angle to end the day in a non-majority and as a by product i think it would be unlikely for scum!Sakura to think of that here

oh I was confused I thought you were talking to mandate :X

[Aristeia]

no...

i was just curious because the last couple times i've seen you as town you've been pretty committed to at least one pocket scum read

is the reason you're trying to be more restrained just lack of confidence from being wrong?

I think if you read my posting this game you would realize I am kind of tunneled on implosion but I am trying to give him a chance to convince me otherwise.

[Aristeia]

*headpats*

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: pocket scumreads for dannflor

if you want pocket scumreads I kind of think the scum team is

dannflor - implosion - mandate

I'm not pushing it because I have a lot of people at null[alisae, brown eyes, keyleth] and I don't really want to get into a slapfight with anyone this game. plus I could always just be wrong.

my reasoning:


implosion - has never really felt like he's wanted to be here, he's felt apprehensive around me when I talk to him and his explanation to meuh doesnt make sense because if he thinks town!me is going to tunnel the shit out of town!him wouldnt it be good for him to have that happen if his goal is to sort me? his response to his push feels too logical and restrained.

dannflor - you kind of feel burnt out and exhausted and I think you'd feel that pressure more as scum than town esp in this kind of setup, when you enter the thread I'm not sure the things you're interested in are really productive or town you trying to go forward in the motion. You're probably the closest to true null in this group of three as you've done the least and I guess you would be null if I didn't have such high expectations for your town game which is somewhat unfair sorry I hope you don't find me insufferable <3

mandate - I really dislike the way he tries to practice thread control, a few of his reads felt made up in order to achieve a goal rather than find scum. The thing that made me think he's mafia is when he was venting at Merlyn last night for being toxic when she expressed a view of implosion that she couldn't trust him because he's fooled her recently. He extrapolated it to that she was basically policying implosion for being good at mafia which is not the sentiment she really expressed. I thought about it some more and I think maybe the reason he thinks this is because he is tilted that town players like sakura/beeboy are being hard townbinned off a few posts because meta reasons while players like implosion can't buy a townread to save his life. this tilt really only makes sense if he's teamed with implosion and he thinks this game is unfair - conveniently this kind of fits with the way he defended you and implosion as his reasons for townreading the two of you make no sense to me.


I don't feel amazing about any of these and I understand I can be biased especially early in the game so I am kind of being handsoffy and letting it play out

[Aristeia]

I am glad you are feeling relaxed and hope you have fun

[Aristeia]

I mean it's funny because BE assigned you none of that leverage to be human making a human error and ofc she ends up with better reads because I like to assume that you don't play like this as scum and it's just like, why should I even bother

wdym?

[Aristeia]

It's Ari/Meuh + Ali or Dunn btw

I don't think any other slots contain scum

if you want to BoP yourself on me or meuh feel free to

[Aristeia]

I gave Aristeia a lot of chances because I simply didn't want to believe that the player would, in the position she was in of being told by the mod that I was in the game, exploit the situation so ruthlessly to try to get towncred.

this is not what I did at all

[Aristeia]

since you've accused me of unethical behavior this is the end of our conversation