Shell Game (Day 4)

[Bingle]

Will not somebody rid us of this troublesome bear?

Oh, I did that years ago. This has been “Weekend at Pooky’s” since 2015.

[Bingle]

Haven’t decided yet. Sell me on it.

What does the town have to offer me to side with them? The scumteam sent me a neat fruit basket with gold ribbons.

[Bingle]

Kinda. With Bingle showing up in the game thread, I wondered if he surfaced in the hood, too.

I have not.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Bingle
I don't have a reason for this except for him to get in here.

I think Cabd is scum, fite me.

[Bingle]

Shello and Goodbye (Ydrasse & skitter30)

lets kill this player.
ydrasse and skitter are scary town and scum. We must kill all those who scare me.

No, it's been like years since I've gotten to play with skitter.

[Bingle]

I was getting there, I'm currently eating Havarti so that's the right answer, or your taste in cheese sucks, either-or.

Munster is edible lactose gold.

[Bingle]

Dude what part of PenguinPower said Bingle is town does this game not understand

Can... can it raise its hand to ask? Is this just yet another magical interaction of players in which they claim to always be 100% like Pooky->Morph?

Nope. Penguin has the reads accuracy at Bingle of a puppy thrown off of a skyscraper. It's really cute until it hits the ground.

[Bingle]

Bingle can you tell me who in our hood is scum?

Is cabd in our hood, because I am legit scumreading him. And to a lesser extent ffery.

[Bingle]

Cabd’s posting feels like he’s trying to be sudsing things but not actually being sudsing things.

[Bingle]

Sussing

[Bingle]

Bingle can you tell me who in our hood is scum?

Is cabd in our hood, because I am legit scumreading him. And to a lesser extent ffery.

I do not find this post to be believable

You wanna ask Dann how reading me like that works out? Cause…

https://youtu.be/g4gU74gMbp0?si=15DdDOhFo_a_9SIC

[Bingle]

Bingle how much of the game have you read?

The part I found unbelievable is that you don't know who is in the neighborhood

Page 1-5, page when I first posted to here, my role pm. I will admit that I opened the neighborhood and saw fire and crab, but I don’t know much more than that, nor do I particularly care atm.

[Bingle]

Cabd’s posting feels like he’s trying to be sudsing things but not actually being sudsing things.

Do you have specific examples?

Maybe later. My computer just decided it doesn’t want to connect to ms so I’m mobile posting before going to work.

[Bingle]

I probably wouldn’t claim if I got a cop shot of unknown sanity, fwiw. I’d probably just crumb my result and let the inventor who sent it to me work it out.

[Bingle]

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

[Bingle]

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

[Bingle]

Dunnstral crab oblivion town

[Bingle]

VOTE: Marcistar

[Bingle]

U just said u can't vote!

No I didn’t.

[Bingle]

That doesn’t say I can’t vote.

[Bingle]

doing isos

Do me! Do me!

[Bingle]

I think

Liar.

[Bingle]

Our neighborhood is boring. 1/5 stars would not read again.

[Bingle]

viewtopic.php?t=80680

Relevant mod meta.

[Bingle]

viewtopic.php?t=80680

Relevant mod meta.

What is this?

A game in which both ceph and I were scum and there was a derby gimmick hood, likely informing game design on this game.

[Bingle]

Bingle, given you have a "legit" scumread of cabd and not much better of me, I'm curious why you're voting Marci atm.

I'm scumreading marci.

[Bingle]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GODS

Crabs for the crab gods!

[Bingle]

hermit crab is more sus because of this notsci revelation

Eh. Not really. It actually makes me less curious about why I was apparently worth focusing on.

Crab pretty much locktown.

[Bingle]

Hey bingle, any thoughts on fire recent posting? I’m still back and forth on who the scum in our hood is

Fire is pretty firmly scum imo. I’m no where near caught up enough to want the lim, but this is very much a kill it with water moment.

[Bingle]

It’s relatively boring, my point was more it’s easier to stick your toes into as someone coming in late.

I don’t think I’ve ever started a game replacement by checking the hood. My stance is that hoods are frequently a waste of my time.

[Bingle]

Bee Tee Dubs, I am not interested in pursuing morph at the time, expecially when we have at least 4 claimed cop shots, albeit with various sanities. Unless someone form the dethy hood flips traitor, but I’ll worry about it then.

I’ve read Luke’s post and I understand where he’s coming from, but I think the part about Sunflower implicates that scum-morph is trying to strongarm a mislim and strongarming a mislim within the dethy hood this early is not what I think scum would do in this situation tbh.

-Herr Mitt

Is this at me? Cause I don’t think cabd is scum for attempting to strongarm a lim. If I thought cabd was really trying to strongarm a derby lim that might make me townread him, actually. I’m not even sure if I can articulate what exactly makes him scum because the scumread boils down to exactly the reason he was town to me over lld in the unwnd game forever ago but just different.

[Bingle]

I am a player with a significant experience with most of the game.

experience replaces ActionDan.

Ah shit, crab is multislotting.

[Bingle]

idk i still think shell game means that there's a power to swap people in and out of the hoods

Warm pup might also be scum, btw.

VOTE MEEEEEEEE

I lose my ability to rearrange hoods if I vote, which will make my wincon of making the alignments of living players in the hoods match really hard to achieve.

I'm getting a scum with TMI vibe from this.

And there's really nothing in their ISO that gives me unequivocal townvibes. I was looking back fireisred's posts about her neighbors and it struck me that she's been suspicious of/shaded every one of them over the last nearly 3 days.

vote: Sunflower

This is scummy AF, btw.

Like, I don’t see either of the morphs being oblivious enough to have this thought.

[Bingle]

also is bingle’s claim even serious

Bingles claim was very obviously a joke, given A it would be Bingle claiming townsiding 3p in a way that would be basically impossible to duck a nk through and B choosing to then vote on a shaky read would then be borderline gamethrowing.

I’m not going to comment on whether I was crumbing anything.

[Bingle]

My understanding is they are saying it seems weird Sunflower is preemptively aware of what you claimed existing, no?

Am I missing something?

The fact that the sunflower post is on the second page I read, the fact that the name of the game is about swapping things to hide their location, the fact that it’s come now, after so much “is Bingle for reels” speculation. It’s just not a real thought.

[Bingle]

I get confusion from Dann, he’s having trouble keeping his brain above the tide of shitposts, but morph have both been here, both been active, and both frankly know better than to see that as a tmi thing.

[Bingle]

That’s kinda what I’m saying. We’re walking through the Rockies and flower said “I wonder if there’s bears in these woods.” Later, I jump out from behind a tree and shout “RAWR IMMA GRIZZLY”. And then like a day later morph goes “it’s kinda sketchy flower thought there might be bears in the Rockies”

[Bingle]

If there’s scum in the other hood, who is it?

What’s the plist? I haven’t been keeping track of claims/hood assignments because I think that’s probably not worth it d1 and limited time.

[Bingle]

Flower town Marci scum other three null.

[Bingle]

I’m aware vaguely that Dan was a wagon prospect, fwiw, but haven’t noticed a compelling why.

[Bingle]

She’ll, what’s the read on me. I expect it exists by now.

[Bingle]

Shello, not she’ll

[Bingle]

if we yeet flower today and he flips scum we murder dannflor and bingle immediately btw

I’m the superior animal detective and you know it. Not only do dogs have a keen sense of smell I have the ability to move because I’m not a stuffed animal.

[Bingle]

Probs fire if I was shooting for scum, but I’d be more likely to policy vig atm.

[Bingle]

Std or pengy?

[Bingle]

You.

[Bingle]

just because I haven't moved all game doesn't mean I can't move

I simply choose not to because this spot is very comfortable

That spot is very comfortable because it’s occupied by a teddy bear that can’t walk. Checkmate.

[Bingle]

Flower town Marci scum other three null.

I really really don’t think marci is scum, she is genuinely my strongest townread in the game

If she’s town and I put a gun in your hands who are we blasting

It’s not a hard read, but the tail end of the oblivion drama read as Marci backing down not out of a resolution to the drama but because she was happy with the gamestate and didn’t want to compromise the position she was in. Don’t get me wrong, I think the drama was probably real despite not really caring about it, but I feel like the “oh maybe that’s just a play style thing” combined with not really trying to work around the play style differences is sus.

Why you towning her?

[Bingle]

Vaguely town but not very strongly and wouldn't bet anything on it yet

I don't think scumreading morph is ai

Huh.

If you’d said you were scumreading me I’d townread you for it.

[Bingle]

if we yeet flower today and he flips scum we murder dannflor and bingle immediately btw

Bingle, sure. I actually think dann is town independant of sunflower and would fite that

Although honestly i'm not sure sunflower + bingle make so much sense together either, but i'll admit it has to do with how much Bingle may have read before so this isn't a great thought

Still basically nothing prior to page 50. Otherwise caught up ish.

[Bingle]

Hey bingle, any thoughts on fire recent posting? I’m still back and forth on who the scum in our hood is

Fire is pretty firmly scum imo. I’m no where near caught up enough to want the lim, but this is very much a kill it with water moment.

Let me know when you get fully caught up and read some Cakez posts what you think?

Cakez seems town? I guess?

[Bingle]

I think Dann not knowing I was memeing the claim is mildly town but don’t think he’s done much else to read him by, fwiw.

[Bingle]

if we yeet flower today and he flips scum we murder dannflor and bingle immediately btw

Bingle, sure. I actually think dann is town independant of sunflower and would fite that

Although honestly i'm not sure sunflower + bingle make so much sense together either, but i'll admit it has to do with how much Bingle may have read before so this isn't a great thought

I would never fite you <3 but i wouldnt be surprised if you were wrong!

Why do you think flowerscum indicates Bingle scum and is it recursive?

[Bingle]

Like walk me through the probabilities on the punnet square.

[Bingle]

Is there a reason you pointed me at the neighborhood, btw? Other than spiff and Dunn being standoffish with each other, Dunn thinking I should be keeping track of hoods when I straight up don’t care and whatever the snarglefargle nonsense is I see nothing you’d even expect me to pay attention to.

[Bingle]

It’s more that in the past town me tended to trigger scumpings from you and I don’t think you would be conscious of that after this much time than anything else. Digging the in depth analysis though.

[Bingle]

@skitter It’s kind of frustrating to me that that is a perfect description of how I feel about you and I don’t see a way around it.

[Bingle]

Why do you think flowerscum indicates Bingle scum and is it recursive?

you're defending flower in a very shady way without really elaborating on why you think flower is town.

like you call out morph for their tmi "case" on flower which is very eye-roll but you don't say anything that flower did is actually townie for whatever reason

That sounds more like a reason to scumread me independently than a reason to link us, tbh.

[Bingle]

It’s not that the case is bad, it’s that the case isn’t something they would think. It’s a fake reason. Bad cases aren’t scummy, manufactured cases are.

[Bingle]

mafia love scumreads that don't go anywhere what

Generally yeah but i don't think this is how (competant) scum generally have a scumread on morph

ok but if the goal of competent scum is to put a chip in the wall and get townread this is pretty much textbook since its literally achieving that strategic purpose.

if anything I think if you're town and you think this person is scum and they're very unlikely to come under pressure and many people are saying they're town and they have a strong town rep, you

don't

say it out loud because casting doubt on the alignment makes it LESS likely they get nightkilled and really brings you nothing strategically.

Do you really think me sussing morph is likely to prevent them being nightkilled if they’re town?

[Bingle]

Sure, which is why I asked for the punnet square. But literally nothing about what you’re saying is a link, it’s just a “Bingle is being weird, I think he’s scum”

[Bingle]

Do you really think me sussing morph is likely to prevent them being nightkilled if they’re town?

I was talking about Dannflor with Skitter in terms of the strategic implications of stating a scumread that you do not expect to go anywhere

The question doesn’t change much whether it’s about me or Dannflor

[Bingle]

Sure, which is why I asked for the punnet square. But literally nothing about what you’re saying is a link, it’s just a “Bingle is being weird, I think he’s scum”

the point of the link is to reaction test you

Okay. Can I get the punnet square now?

[Bingle]

@skitter It’s kind of frustrating to me that that is a perfect description of how I feel about you and I don’t see a way around it.

How i'm describing you or how i'm describing penguin?

Me. I’m aware that I tend to scum read you so the gut scum pings are meh but also still there but also I don’t see a way forward that isn’t just “maybe it resolves itself” but also I want a way forward that isn’t just “maybe it resolves itself” and that’s annoying.

[Bingle]

maybe if we run him up again he'll come back

Bingle flower both town:
Bingle flower both scum:
S/T:
T/S:

[Bingle]

Sunflower, what are your current thoughts on morph?

ffery is town and cabd is scum

i am absolutely a coward as town, you don't know me

Posts like this, gamestate.

Also, I would like to clarify that flower is town in comparison to the rest of that hood, not town compared to my townreads, but that doesn’t really change much.

[Bingle]

Your turn.

[Bingle]

Pengy, don’t be mad at me for saying I’d shoot you. It’s true, but don’t be mad at me.

[Bingle]

Sunflower, what are your current thoughts on morph?

ffery is town and cabd is scum

i am absolutely a coward as town, you don't know me

Posts like this, gamestate.

Also, I would like to clarify that flower is town in comparison to the rest of that hood, not town compared to my townreads, but that doesn’t really change much.

this doesnt compute for me

Why? Both of those seem like things flower is actually thinking. They’re useless and don’t advance anything, but they’re also very truthy.

Combine that with flower being under scrutiny for ? and my strongest scumread pushing flower in a not very bussy way, I think flower is most likely to be town of the list of 5 names crab gave me.

[Bingle]

maybe if we run him up again he'll come back

Bingle flower both town:
Bingle flower both scum:
S/T:
T/S:

Your turn.

can you use simple words to explain what you are asking me for

for example I am asking you for "why do you think sunflower is town" and your explanation is currently "game state" and "posts like these" with literally 0 explanation attached

How likely do you think each of these worlds is?

[Bingle]

like i really have trouble believing this townread lol

Ok? Did you expect me to have a drawn out and ironclad reasoning to explain a solicited townlean?

[Bingle]

If there’s scum in the other hood, who is it?

Klick Flower Marci experience STD

Flower town Marci scum other three null.

Like… what do you expect from this?

[Bingle]

I should probably put on pants and go to work, but if flower is scum I’d probably flip pooky here, tbh.

[Bingle]

like i really have trouble believing this townread lol

Ok? Did you expect me to have a drawn out and ironclad reasoning to explain a solicited townlean?

i expect you to have strong reasons for defending someone at this point of the game yea

Except I’m not doing that?

[Bingle]

How likely do you think each of these worlds is?

i dont even see the point of this question and I haven't thought about it at all

?

You were the one talking about the link and I’m literally asking you to consider it.

[Bingle]

How likely do you think each of these worlds is?

i dont even see the point of this question and I haven't thought about it at all

?

You were the one talking about the link and I’m literally asking you to consider it.

you asked me why I was linking the two of you instead of considering you scummy independently and I explained it already so I don't see the point of your question

I do see the point of my question, in that it provides insight into how you’re thinking and might help me solve you.

[Bingle]

Except I’m not doing that?

uh you literally said sunflower is town when asked with p ? reasoning and you're pushing morph for their push on sunflower

I’m pushing morph for their push on sunflower because the push itself is scummy. I don’t think cabd being scummy for that push is very much related to whether flower is town, although I do think the opposite implication is true. I also said that sunflower is the towniest of five specific players when asked about 5 specific players.

[Bingle]

yall ngl i wanna vote dunn

Interesting. I could be persuaded.

[Bingle]

It has plans to return its focus here but it is feeling less than 100%. While it heals is there anything it should put its focus onto?

I feel like your perspective on pooky/me, morph/me, and fb in general are all worth sharing.

[Bingle]

I'm trying to plague, so despite being caught up with everything since p50 you will be seeing not much of me unless insomnia, at which point I'll probably be a little loopy.

[Bingle]

I think youre lying.

You 100% pressed the link didnt you BAHAHAHHA

In that post the person who took the cyber security class would be firebringer.

And I could not be the person who took the class.

I did push the link.

I also pushed the link, and have taken multiple infosec courses, and indeed watched the video to the end. For future knowledge, hovering over a link will preview the url in the bottom corner of the browser for most browsers.

[Bingle]

SK is extremely likely in a single-groupscup-announced-by-mod setup, especially one of 22 players, so this is entirely possible.

I seem to remember ceph being anti SK, as a note.

[Bingle]

i want to join cakez because wagons but i also want gypyx and she's just so close to being a competing wagon

hold the line penguin...hold the line.

VOTE: gypyx

Three dueling wagons is like 2 dueling wagons but with more room for backroom duels.

[Bingle]

Morph did the thing, I guess, so they can be a null read now. Still not really vibing town, but I think I'll probably be hard defending them tomorrow.

[Bingle]

wrt marci i’m unsure if she’s a wolf still but i agree that she feels hollow regardless of alignment and i think that’s because like. earlier in the game she talked about how someone was helping her in another game etc and all that and i feel like… she’s trying to emulate that persons style or maybe effort or something? so while she’s doing things on the surface that are like productive questions in theory there’s not like the normal motivation underneath of it or understanding why people go through the processes of asking what they do in games etc

- ydra

The specific brand of halfremembered nonsense in this post is pretty towny, ngl. Like... for context, Ydra is talking about a conversation about cabd coaching marci scum on a particularly devious bit of theater and marci corroborating that her scumgame is better with a powerwolf buddy because she's insecure. I think the "trying to emulate cabd" aspect is probably nonsense, but I like that ydra is clearly reading and applying that memory while not caring enough to make sure her random thoughts look reasonable.

[Bingle]

Hi I'm a miller

Hi "I'm a miller", I'm Dad.

I'm lost, who is "I'm a miller"? I've never played with that user.

[Bingle]

i want to join cakez because wagons but i also want gypyx and she's just so close to being a competing wagon

hold the line penguin...hold the line.

VOTE: gypyx

Three dueling wagons is like 2 dueling wagons but with more room for backroom duels.

What does this even mean?

~ skitter

If there are three wagons, people won't be on a wagon just because they don't like the alternate wagon.

[Bingle]

make the bingle case

[Bingle]

Dunn's level of engagement and scumhunting this game has felt beyond what I've seen him pull off as scum in the past.

u wot m8

[Bingle]

What does ama mean

Attack Me Anytime

no u first

[Bingle]

I disagree, ydra. I think this game is actually going pretty well. Like... there's 117 pages, but all of it feels like there's information there and we just need to sus it out. There's garbage wagons, but they feel like meaningful garbage wagons. We don't need to win today, we need today to make us win.

I BELIEVE IN MIRACLES!

[Bingle]

I disagree, ydra. I think this game is actually going pretty well. Like... there's 117 pages, but all of it feels like there's information there and we just need to sus it out. There's garbage wagons, but they feel like meaningful garbage wagons. We don't need to win today, we need today to make us win.

I BELIEVE IN MIRACLES!

i've been increasingly cranky about the size of this game. don't look at my post count

- ydra

I mean, sure it’s a long ass game, but it’s a long ass game where things are actually happening. It’s kinda why the cakez wagon was ass. Anyone who has played a game with cakez and expected more from him before now was lying to someone

[Bingle]

Dunn's level of engagement and scumhunting this game has felt beyond what I've seen him pull off as scum in the past.

u wot m8

ok that sounded kind of dumb but the point is he feels like town!Dunn fairly transparently to me

Eh. Maybe I’m biased but I’ve felt like his contributions have p much all been bad faith and I don’t think Dunn is particularly more likely to tryhard as town than scum. Like… look at every interaction he has with me, for example.

[Bingle]

what's a cassette tape

I used to think 8-track was A-track and also fuck you.

[Bingle]

I don't hate Cakez' catchup. I kinda expected to.

Neuterhalf left me laughter in our chat at your scumread before going to some navy weekend thing.

Yeah, I don't really agree with him on... anything, really. But that's pretty well what I'd expect a towncakez to post.

I feel like Cakez and HC are similar in that they're probably both town and we don't really see eye to eye right now and that's OK.

[Bingle]

I'm leaving to eat tapioca pudding

You joke, but tapioca is pretty great. Cut up some fresh peaches in that shit and you're golden.

Prune juice though is pretty easily replaced by any kind of alcohol.

[Bingle]

I think Cakez is town and marci is scum who doesn’t want his wagon to melt

This.

[Bingle]

Bingle did you miss my question?

I only have so much time and I'm busy ignoring other people right now. Keep your pants on.

[Bingle]

I came away from Bingle's posts, especially his interaction with Pooky, with the opposite conclusion. That his "not give a fuck" attitude was being used intentionally so people will overlook him, and when he did that he was trying to pass off the extended Pooky interaction as engagement when I don't really see what he was getting out of it? It feels a bit like Bingle was perpetuating their back and forth to look like he was doing something.

For what it's worth, this is not the Bingle whose whose fuck field is barren, this is the Bingle who has a lot of pans in the fire and came down with some kind of cold or flu nonsense.

My fucks are given, just given poorly. You might say I'm just a bad fucker.

[Bingle]

Aight, I'm gonna go through my cakez thought process here.

Cakez is 100% capable of faking disinterest in a game as scum. He's also capable of making a believable catchup post as scum. But here he was behind on the game for what? 72 hours? In a 130 page game?

That's just reasonable. When he came in, his reads didn't seem like they were political, nor did they seem spicy-to-build-townreads. Cakez scumreads morph and crab, two of the most townread players in the game. He's not really pushing either. Like, the argument that Cakez is going to fan the paranoia about Morph for me and Luke falls apart if you look at the actual impact me and Luke SR-ing morph actually has. I think both of us are and have been fine with occasionally throwing balls of yarn at the cat and letting them play in the corner until D2 despite our scumreads. I EXPLICITLY sent morph a thinly veiled message about gamestate that I am 95% sure they picked up on and plan to reevaluate D2 based on how their treatment of me changes and whether a specific player dies. I don't see the benefit in Cakez trying to fan the flames of a bonfire on the beach in order to distract from what's going on in the middle of the camp and I don't think scumCakez thinks that's actually going to happen.

As far as Cakez is giving hot takes to seem town, that's pretty incompatible with Cakez is just playing off of Luke/Bingle paranoia. Like, pretty much the opposite.

Also, all of the things Cakes says, even the ones I disagree with, seem like reasonable thought processes. I can see how someone who is not half as pretty as I could come to those conclusions, and that makes me think "OK, yeah, this is probably real thoughts and not mafia pushing an agenda."

Combine all of that with Cakez just being crazy easy to push as a scum player when he's town, and I'm going to default to Cakez is probably just town. Also, I see a bunch of references to a slip, but no actual explanation of it and that makes me predisposed to think it's bullshit.

[Bingle]

spiffeh/marci/brian i think are my bottom 3 right now

yes marci i know you’re voting brian right now but if brian is actually scum in this gamestate he’s being heavily bussed

A couple things:
1. I don't think you've ever mentioned having me as a scum read before, can you explain why you feel this way?
2. I see you're scum reading myself and marci on the Brian wagon, but are there any other votes that feel like bus votes to you?
3. If you believe Brian is being heavily bussed, how do you reconcile marci, one of your strongest scum reads on the wagon, seemingly getting cold feet? How does this align with your perspective of the Brian wagon?

:Thorface:

[Bingle]

i think i'm lowkey starting to sr morph

~ skitter

pedit >.>

he has a very ~performative tone there that i kind of see here, like trying to be ~excited and ~cavalier and i kinda can see it also
also he totally tried to argue with cabd there

Put an =

Like [spoiler=
And then a closing bracket.

~

VOTE: cakez

I think we should start consolidating and winding down the day

~ skitter

skitter, I want you to read these posts as if they were talking about you and get back to me on why I think you're talking nonsense.

[Bingle]

I dislike Shello's argument about his Brian Skies vote and it feels a little cherry-picked to have a reason to scum read him. I don't know how well I can articulate or substantiate this but I get the vibe that Shello entered their Cakez opinion with the intention of scum reading him in general.

You're not allowed to post something that makes me scumread you and then preempt my poke at skitter like this in a way that makes me townread you. Bad mouse wizard.

[Bingle]

where this game am I bad faith?

Your whole preoccupation with my ngaf about what seems to be a vanilla hood and trying to make a big deal of it seems like busy work designed to make me look scummy, not a genuine belief that I'm supposed to care about who is in a neighborhood I haven't even tried reading for content more as town.

Yes, there is an OP with the neighborlist. No, there is nothing AI about not giving a shit about who the 6 people in that list are. Mechanically, I'm like 98% sure that neighborhood comp is nonrandom and I still don't give a shit about the neighborlist because until I have a good grasp of the game design and a good grasp of the game state that knowledge is worthless at best and likely to cause bias in my reading at worst.

[Bingle]

What did I post that makes you scum read me and why?

3161 pings me as the kind of bullshit scumpost designed to undermine the credibility of a read instead of determine it's motivation or address its validity.

I also am just generally peripherally aware that you're doing things without really remembering your pushes, which I feel is a pretty good indicator that you're scum I haven't paid enough attention to, but that could be nonsense given that I haven't put a lot of effort into reading you.

[Bingle]

i think i'm lowkey starting to sr morph

~ skitter

pedit >.>

he has a very ~performative tone there that i kind of see here, like trying to be ~excited and ~cavalier and i kinda can see it also
also he totally tried to argue with cabd there

Put an =

Like [spoiler=
And then a closing bracket.

~

VOTE: cakez

I think we should start consolidating and winding down the day

~ skitter

skitter, I want you to read these posts as if they were talking about you and get back to me on why I think you're talking nonsense.

?

Your first post is a tacit agreement with Cakez stated concerns and your second is an "eh, I guess we can consolidate on the person I just agreed with".

Leaves a bad taste.

[Bingle]

Yup.

But unless you think Cakez/morph is S/S theater I don't really get why an increasing SR on morph DOESN'T make you lose confidence in Cakez scum over BS scum.

I guess the question is: Why that thing I said?

[Bingle]

@Cakez, what is your opinion of Dann, Hermit, and morph's reactions to the deathy reveal. (Started around 564)

Not Cakez, but I finally read the dethy reveal.

Morph looks awful, Dunn actually looks decently uninformed and towny, Dann looks bored with the whole thing which... NAI, marcy looks performative as all shit, Hermit is crazy town but at this point I'd probably just sit in the corner and cry if they flipped scum anyway, and pooky is probably a townbear.

[Bingle]

i have no idea if cakez/morph is svs ...
the read on one for me has almost no relationship to the read on the other for me right now

also like the morph read is kind of ~nebulous and not really something i'd make decisions off of right now
i don't know what your last line means

The last line was asking you for that post in completely broken English.

[Bingle]

Brian 10 (Spiffeh, morph, marci, Lukewarm, Dunnstral, Sunflower, Pooky, SirCakez, Penguin, CSF)

Could you order these town to scum, Spiff?

[Bingle]

Also, would you like my take on the answers to those as someone who agrees with Dann, or are you specifically interested in Dann's answers?

[Bingle]

Bingle and danflor should get matching tshirts <3

[Bingle]

ooooh i get it now, you're complaining i'm agreeing with cakez abt morph but then voting cakez

It's more that you're agreeing with cakez and then voting cakez with like... no perceivable conviction. I don't get the sense you really think cakez is scum, but rather that you just decided to throw your hands up and say fuck it, maybe this flips scum. Which I think comes from town you, but also I think is something you should be aware of if it is town you doing it.

[Bingle]

btw, there was someone (pooky? probably pooky) accusing me of defending someone earlier in the game. This is what Bingle defending someone looks like.

[Bingle]

who's in the 6p hood again?

Hermit
Dunn
Spiff
FB
Someone else

[Bingle]

Firebringer

Huh?

[Bingle]

Firebringer's early posts didn't ping me as much upon reread, and I was fine with his reaction to his wagon.

I also really like these posts:

I think that's a poor basis for a Fire read, and those posts are very NAI.

I think the concise version of my fire read is too towny to be townbringer.

Also literally no one other than Sunflower themselves addressed my point about them crumbing the cop-inventor being scum indicative

Can you point your favorite hermit crab at it

Also, please humor me while I discuss mechanics I know nothing about and let me know if you think I'm off base/conf-biasing: Sunflower crumbing their role is scummy. It took like 20 pages of the main thread for the participants of the neighborhood to realize it was a dethy, which leads me to believe that it wasn't made explicitly clear in their role PMs. However, I suspect Ceph would have clued in the assumed lone scum in the hood about it to some degree so they are not caught immediately in the event the hood mass claims. My question is, why does Town crumb that role at all? As scum with knowledge of the dethy, crumbing would be advantageous because it could be something to point to later to say "look I really do have that role I crumbed it right here!" But I don't think Town gains anything by crumbing their role as cop inventor, even with the implication of potentially not being sane.

I don't think either of these really interacts with the crumb train of thought, tbh. If scum is told the whole hood is copventors then they don't really need to crumb copventor for believability. I think it boils down to some people crumb and some people don't crumb and mostly they don't make that decision based on whether crumbing is actually smart.

I don't think we should make a plan for the cop shots and the dethy hood should distribute them as they fit.

Not quite.

We should attempt to prevent the cop shots from doubling up on a player, which means we should have the copventors each claim a pool of players they might copventor into that don't overlap, including the other copventors. With 4.3 targets apiece, scum probably won't shoot for to disrupt the copventoring and we won't get HC getting 5 copventor shots that all then are completely unparseable for point of origin.

FYI Jingle/Bingle you are alt-slipping.

Sorry. Was working on something for Jingle and didn't realize I didn't swap back over.

[Bingle]

First off I’m going to start with the leading wagons of the day; Cakes/Brianskies and why I think they can both be mafia.

My homie Cakeboi;

Things I didn’t like: Cakes “disappearing” after I asked him how he knew the hermit hydra was a cabal member. The issue I had wasn’t so much that he took X minutes to reply etc which is always understandable – it’s that after he replied to it he kind of tried to just vibe with the thread for a bit without really trying to solve anything and then just dipped to “read” which feels like he was more interested in getting out of dodge than like actually getting reads.

His readslist feels questionable to me, I don’t really understand how he got to a townread on Penguin and I certainly don’t understand how he has me at top townread status when like he just told me last game we played together that he feels like he can never trust me-> link here: viewtopic.php?p=14028065#p14028065
And when he’s asked about it he doesn’t really give a good reason for townreading me. I feel like it doesn’t make sense for him to trust me this much if he’s uninformed of my alignment.

The last thing I didn’t like about Cakez and what led me to the teamread of Cakes/Brian is how Cakes responded to doubts about why he voted for Brian Skies – he essentially didn’t give any good reasons on why he wants Brian dead and that feels like how Cakes plays when he busses a teammate – he thinks its self-evident why said teammate is scummy and he doesn’t find a reason to justify the vote – whereas if cakes is scum and voting a townie he would come up with a reason so he doesn’t look as bad after the misflip.
Two other things I want to mention that I noticed in Cakes iso;

Now
VOTE: BRIAN SKIES

All of his posts sound like wet toilet paper being thrown at a wall. He's probably sad his teammates already decided to bus him.

^ this is Cakes vote on Brian

And this is the VC/Cakes Readlist at the time;

ACTUALLY TOWN READS - Lukewarm, Pooky, Dunnstral, Pengy
TOWN ISH...FOR NOW - Shello and Goodbye, Dannflor, Spiffeh, marcistar, Oblivion, Bingle
idk yet - StD, experience, Gypyx
A LITTLE SCUMMISH - Firebringer, CSF, Klick
SCUMMY BUT IM ALSO TILTED - Hermit Crab
SCUMMY AF - Morph the Cat, Firebagel, Sunflower, Brian Skies

pls keep in mind these are rough draft immediate fire thought reads based individually
ex; morph and sunflower are probably not scum together but I got scum vibes from them individually
I'm also ignoring the hoods for now

I find the whole "slip" argument against me to be incredibly dumb but I don't think there's anything even to argue there so I'm just gonna ignore it. I don't really think it's AI.

VC 1.11

Brian 7 (Spiffeh, morph, marci, Lukewarm, Dunnstral, Sunflower, Pooky)
SirCakez 6 (CSF, Firebagel, STD, Brian, Shello, Dannflor)
Gypyx 3 (Penguin, Hermit, Bingle)
Sunflower 1 (Klick)
Pooky 1 (SirCakez)
Spiffeh 1 (Gypyx)
Bingle 1 (Firebringer)

Not voting (Oblivion, experience)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to combust.

Deadline: (expired on 2024-05-09 04:07:00)

Of the 7 players voting Bsky he has Pooky/Dunn/Luke as his top tier townreads, Morph/Sunflower as scumreads and spiff/marci as 2nd tier townreads.

So what he is saying about “all the scum team bussing bsky so he’s sad” is incongruent with his stated reads – it’s the kind of hyperbole you use when you bus a partner without really thinking it through whether this actually makes sense with what your reads actually are.

Lastly another thing I’ve noticed is;

Sigh

Crabz, do y'all have thoughts on this?

Same question to you, Luke.

other's thoughts also welcome.

I am of two minds when I look at his top 4 scum reads.

In my left brain, I don't think that scum-Cakez would feel super confident in dropping you guys in the bottom tier.

In my right brain, I think that landing on Brian being his strongest scum read is exactly who scum-Cakez needs to have as his strongest scum read.

Why are you looking at everything from the angle of would scum!Cakez do this? What about would town!Cakez do this? I feel like everyone in this game is good enough to see how scummy Brian's recent posting has been,

I almost feel like it would be egregious to not vote him given the wagon existing too.

i kinda feel like if you're scum you have to vote him now, no?

~ skitter

People keep saying this but why would I not vote him as town here either? He's one of my top scum reads and has the biggest wagon. I feel like it would be really dumb to try to start some other vanity wagon when people don't even generally listen to me in the first place, let alone when I'm the main CW.

^ this gives off huge caught for the wrong reasons vibes. It feels like he’s saying to skitter I would do this if I were town TOO!!! ~ as in he thinks this is how he plays if he’s town so its unfair for her to treat him this way etc.

Lastly I feel like his conversations with morph feel like he’s trying to placate them/get them off his back which doesn’t make sense if he’s scumreading them.

As for why I think Brian is also mafia it really comes down to three points;

(1) Disengagement with the game – Spiffeh’s 2838 lays out a very good case for why this is scum!brian – I haven’t played a lot of games with Brian but from what I remember of him in Tenet he was very engaged with the game. I think it makes sense for him to be disengaged if he’s resigned to being elimmed and the only viable other elimination[cakez] is a partner.
(2) I kind of refuse to believe town!brian can see cakes being so scummy[see my points against cakes above] and being opportunistic in pushing him with no real good reasoning and he doesn’t fight back against it and just rolls over? Like I kind of think town brian has no problem rising up and kicking Cakes butt back to the stone age.
(3) The way cakez treats Brian feels like he’s telling us this is going to be a scumflip [yes I know preflips are bad and its dumb to build one scumcase off another when you don’t have any flips but this is just how I play so deal with it]


So that's p much why I am fine with flipping either Cakes or Brian atp.

Gonna write up the rest of my readlist on everyone else now.

I'll accept this. I'm okay with both now.

[Bingle]

I think morph is getting 3 cuz i said if we want mechanics we need to wait until 2 shots can go off so we can get accurate info. But then said it isnt realistic.

WRT dethy hood:

Claim the N1 invent and result on the first available day. Claim the N2 invent and result on the second available day. Claim the N3 invent and result on the third available day -> first time when usage of that information should be powerful. As such, dethy hood probably goes untested for a few days and we should focus on solving outside it for now.

I have a pet theory that it's 2 in our hood 2 in no hood 1 in dethy scum wise, but that theory is ungrounded and thus not worth acting on. It does mean that I'm not really interested in delineating between in our hood or not in our hood for limming, because legitimately 0-4 is the reasonable numbers I could see being scum in our hood and that's like... completely useless. I'll probably want to reevaluate that post massclaim. I feel better about a cakez lim post pooky case. Massclaim probably on D3 when scum have committed to killing in the dethy hood or not.

[Bingle]

unless you're talking about us being the sanity check target, not a target to receive inventions. Using us as a sanity check is a good choice, probably.

Sanity check target makes less sense mechanically in a large because we can genuinely flip more players. Copventions should be more aimed at getting reevaluated with like 10 flips on the table where it's not that ambiguous who is giving what kind of result.

[Bingle]

sunflower

HC
klick
std
pp

klick

morph
experience
dann
dunn
luke

dragons

FB
pooky
me
shello

actiondan experience

marci
oblivion
spiff
gypyx

marci

sunflower
cakez
bagel
csf

Invent target pools. I think I got everyone and didn't double up.

[Bingle]

This sounds like a bad idea to me.

More to the point, if you get three cop shots and use them, how the fuck do you track the result back to "cop shot that came from marci" vs "cop shot that came from experience.

[Bingle]

unless you're talking about us being the sanity check target, not a target to receive inventions. Using us as a sanity check is a good choice, probably.

Sanity check target makes less sense mechanically in a large because we can genuinely flip more players. Copventions should be more aimed at getting reevaluated with like 10 flips on the table where it's not that ambiguous who is giving what kind of result.

Arent we basically reducing our worth to 0 if we invest people who we think will die eventually?

We're not aiming to investigate people who will die. People who get investigated will die as a course of the game. The cop shots will be useful around the time we have a ton of flips, when we can go: Oh, marci's investigation has said a town and a scum were both town, probs naive cop shot and thus meaningless. Flower has hit two scum on flipped town, maybe could be an insane cop, if the next target shows town we lim that shit.

[Bingle]

How did you come up with that list, bingle?

I tried to split the townreadiest players and then picked names off the playerlist. I don't particularly care who gets the shots, and in fact probably wouldn't target the towniest person in my pool if I was choosing.

@morph- the odds we fully solve the dethy are low, regardless of our plan. It's mostly a tool to setup autowin if we can get to like 5p or 3p XLO, especially given extra noise from potential blocking roles and potential scum making fake investigations, as well as the 2 days behind dethy schedule start.

[Bingle]

basically, the only mechanical concern for the dethy is that we absolutely DON'T want the inventors to cross target on the same night.

[Bingle]

btw i think we decided to just make lists of 3-4 ourselves

experience already made theirs but i wanna see what dragons and others want too ! :<

It is important that there is 0 overlap in the lists. Otherwise I truly do not care.

[Bingle]

Actually, does an insane cop come back with an inno on a miller?

Depends on Miller wording, actually. The standard Miller of “you investigate as though you were mafia” yes, a potential variant of “any investigative targeting you will receive x result” no.

[Bingle]

Bingle can you talk more abt why pooky's cakez case convinced you?

~ skitter

The reasons pooky had for sr-ing cakez were not the ones I had been dismissing as people being bad at reading cakez and made sense to me.

[Bingle]

my ego tells me bingle was somewhat threatened

Ahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha

Sorry, wrong account.

Hahahahahaha.

You may continue.

[Bingle]

I yelled at them too!

Your secret admirer claimed he was sending it to you already so really it’s only a hand slap for morph

I mean it’s kinda a hand slap for you as well, crab. I wanted to wait and see if our targets claimed the part of the fruit I DIDNT claim in the thread as a test, but you making that known to our hood mates killed that plan.

[Bingle]

I dunno where the scumteam comp post I was gonna quote is, but it's worth noting that 'thief' is basically a sanity of inventor. Thought for food.

[Bingle]

I yelled at them too!

Your secret admirer claimed he was sending it to you already so really it’s only a hand slap for morph

I mean it’s kinda a hand slap for you as well, crab. I wanted to wait and see if our targets claimed the part of the fruit I DIDNT claim in the thread as a test, but you making that known to our hood mates killed that plan.

Am i meant to be reading this as you all give out fruit?

Me and Crab are explicitly both fruit vendors. I claimed because I thought there was a chance I got vigged. Crab claimed that they sent fruit but not to whom.

[Bingle]

Morph is likely town because crab lived the night, FWIW.

[Bingle]

Morph is likely town because crab lived the night, FWIW.

that feels backwards to me unless this is mechanical related and not dayplay related

A little of column A, a little of column B.

Crabs is informed that I'm town. We've known we're both town fruit vendors since before D1 and I softed as such to morph then morph gave receipts of having gotten the message. I don't think hiding this is actually helpful at this point since the two of us should be pretty low on the kill list even as conftown.

[Bingle]

And... Notty to yell at me for outing the best friends portion of our role:

[Bingle]

why would they kill crab who is rather loud and their biggest fan?

I think conftown notty is a tempting morph kill on N1 in a way that makes the pooky kill less likely than a notty kill, specifically because notty was townreading morph so hard and is pretty prone to reevaluation over time.

[Bingle]

Yes, Ydra skitter claim as town would satisfy the type of guilty we have. I'm still processing how I feel about the data that hit the thread as to if I believe them.

I think they're town, but wouldn't oppose the lim if it came down to it.

My reads this game have been pretty tenuous tbh, and I've had like 0 sync with my best friend.

I do think FB is probably scum.

[Bingle]

Although Ffery got "straight up masons" from it.

That was explicitly the message, and I knew she got it when she responded to the 'unwnd' game message with the meta about Yggdrassil.

[Bingle]

You know that you're both town?

Yarp.

[Bingle]

Yes which is why I thank rnjesus for giving me the freebie.

Again.

[Bingle]

Not at anyone in particular, to be clear, just... at the situation it finds itself in which is essentially "what the fuck is going on x100000000"

Town. Also: why I think keeping our cards close to our chests this game is bad, akshually.

In detective penguin, town trying to hide shit from me was exactly why I was able to manipulate things the way I did. And also PP townreading me early set off alarm bells, fwiw.

[Bingle]

I don’t think Dunn is scum here by the way.

-Herr Mitt

Still think his emphasis on our hood D1 was weird, but you’re probs right.

[Bingle]

The only part of spiffs flower case that doesn’t resonate is the crumb but, which makes me really like that for an option. I still think fb scumreading me was a comfortable place to be and not a real read. Would vote wolfbae, would sheep crab on anything outside of a townread.

[Bingle]

extra KP via a bookie

Technically not true. There could be an unclaimed town bookie or a lack of bookie entirely and the scum role was a red herring.

Unlikely, but not impossible.

[Bingle]

Would not murder

morph the cat
Hermit Crap
Oblivion
Dunnstral
Spiffeh
Shello and Goodbye

Don’t want to kill

Dannflor

Don’t care
Gypyx
Save The Dragons
experience
Sunflower
SirCakez
wolfbae
PenguinPower
Lukewarm
Firebagel
Cat Scratch Fever

I’ve picked out the trophy plaque:
Firebringer
marcistar

[Bingle]

I need to reread Luke’s recent posts once I have time bc I’m back and forth on wolfbae

Pedit
Bingle marci is town

No u.

[Bingle]

(if it is multitasking and ceph confirmed that to y'all disregard me but uhhhhhhhhh)

I may have accidentally encouraged this, FWIW. I forgot about the issue with multitasking when I included the inventors in the inventor target pools. We are compulsive, which made me assume inventions would allow multitasking, but I'm reaching out for mod confirmation rn.

[Bingle]

Interesting. So the cop hood is even worse than expected. I do think it's interesting that 3 townies are incapable of copping, and scum chose to shoot one of those who was specifically outed. Is anyone else unable to use inventions?

[Bingle]

I'm beginning to think this is a 4p scum team, btw.

[Bingle]

Wow Bingle. You clearly need to hang out with biancospino more if you think compulsive means you must get to multitask.

When I first started making games multitasking was pretty much a given for complicated themes.

[Bingle]

I do have the invention yes, but i thought we were meant to keep items hush hush!

Eh. I still think it's worth it just to see to maybe what kind of interference exists but also the field where I grow my fucks regarding the dethy lies empty and barren.

[Bingle]

I'd lean investigate over invent.

[Bingle]

The long answer of course being they should investigate if they think they'll die before the person who invented to them and invent if they think they'll live longer.

[Bingle]

your face is eight words longer

[Bingle]

i am curious if Gypyx will explain how much she has read.

[Bingle]

I'm inclined to believe the townslip is real, Dunn.

[Bingle]

The other one. I think it'd be a little on the nose to post "wow that looks like a fake townslip" and then immediately attempt to fake a townslip.

[Bingle]

Being unaware that crab is a claimed mason.

Why were you so sure this was the townslip in quesstion when you don't see it as a townslip?

[Bingle]

can someone who is less stupid than me tell me how our hood is a dethy if the scum almost certainly has a cop inventor ability as well

like how is that something that can be mechanically sorted out in any way

Collectively? It can't. We don't have any guarantee that the sanities are uniformly distributed.

It's likely that the scumventor can choose a sanity, and the rest of the hood gives a consistent sanity result.

OTOH, it's reasonable for an individual cop to be parseable around D4: Say marci's cop invests experience tonight and me tomorrow. We get guilty inno. Now the cop cannot be insane (I'm town) or paranoid (town result at all) or naive (guilty at all) so we know experience is scum.

That's why solving cops that are going to stay around is more important than solving cops likely to die.

[Bingle]

I had no idea what he meant but we are explicitly listed as masons

The role PM says masons, but the actual role is best friend neighbors.

Best friend is a role where the two players don't share a PT but are informed of each other's alignment. It's obscure, but it is the role we actually have.

[Bingle]

VOTE: experience

VOTE: experience

[Bingle]

I simply dont think that scum marci locked in the dethy hood opens up the game the way that she did. Outing the hood, outing the There Is A Scum In The Hood message, saying we should kill in the hood, and voting actiondan. All of her suspicions around the hood felt pretty natural to me as well.

What is the scum motivation in not outing any of this?

[Bingle]

I’ve been incredibly low wim this game and haven’t been able to shift that. Is anyone willing to give me a full mech breakdown behind a spoiler for free town points?

[Bingle]

Thank you for reminding me I should silence my phone at work, Marci. That’s very helpful.

[Bingle]

Legitimately I will hammer Marci if she hits e-1.

[Bingle]

why would you sheep notty

Of the two mason's, he is the one whose reads I would trust more (sorry bingle).

As someone who blatantly sheeped nitty on experience, I’m incredibly offended and you’re dead to me.

[Bingle]

VOTE: Save the dragons

wagon go brr

I think you need to add me and FB. Our village idiot, their openwolf.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: Updated claims

Dethy

MAKING CALIBRATION PROGRESS

Marci's first shot went to sunflower, was used on CSF. Inno result. Naive or inverse.

Wolfbae's first shot went to firebagel. Results unclaimed

NOT MAKING CALIBRATION PROGRESS

sunflower's first shot went to shello. Unused. Also did not give a second one.

STD's first shot went to firebringer. Claiming it failed to work

Experience's first shot went to Marci. Stolen.

Cat Scratch Fever

- Miller

Notty/Bingle

- mason fruit vendors.

Shello

- Oddskeeper (Tries to out guess the bookie) turned off vig.

Firebringer

- fortune teller. Failed to fire night 1 and 2. Night 1 he forgot to submit an action. Night 2, he chose to use a cop-vention.

• past - tracker a past night
  
• present - snarglefargle (??)
  
• future - set up a future redirect

PenguinPower

- Claimed some kind of role that would want to guess the night kill, but not the specific one. Claimed to target Hermit night 2.

Apparently claimed something in their hood, but I don't know what

:

Dunnstral
Cakez (maybe another fruit vendor based off something hermit said, but unclear)

Unclaimed:

Gypyx
Spiffeh
Oblivion
Lukewarm
Firebagel
Dannflor

Mech wise:

Bingle
HC

CSF
Shello

To varying degrees, I'm taking the four of these as a given that they're town. CSF being miller makes sense in a dethy setup. A dedicated doc to the second scumkill fits well with an ascetic real doc mechwise, and the novelty of oddskeeper with a known backup bookie rings true. If the primary bookie was town they would have claimed by now, because we absolutely could have triggered that ability given a reason to do so. Pengy and Shello are not S/S but I kinda think Pengy is scum from a little bit of awkward feels around the early townread of me. It just seemed weird that he specifically would have that read that early. I think marci being stolen from is significantly scum indicative, actually. Especially in the case that Cakez is scum. Experience was already dead. If scum really wanted to mess with town calibrating cops, they would have been better served stealing a different copshot. I think this is a case where the thief was used to go "Oh, look, I was targeted by scum, I can't be scum myself" instead of an actual attempt to prevent the cops from doing something long term. I actually think Fire's claim is maybe town? Like, I don't know why he doesn't use the future redirect N1 as scum, and that looks like a true claim. I don't think it's impossible for scum to have multiple redirection roles in a 'Shell Game' game, but this is maybe town indicative of FB. I'm straight up not worried about the thief Notty's worried about, so limming outside of copventors doesn't seem interesting to me.

[Bingle]

Oddskeeper is roughly poison doc, Dunn.

Groupscum Thief being incentivized to collect fruit is low likelihood if scum have a fruit vendor who gave to town.

Groupscum thief wanting to collect fruit is still low likelihood as claiming fruit is likely and it allows potentially dangerous levels of swing if multiple fruit go to the same person.

3p thief collecting fruit is reasonable, but I’ve seen no evidence of a malignant 3p and am willing to table that fear unless such evidence coalesces.

[Bingle]

I think the wording of our fruits makes it obvious there is a way people can have their fruits taken, do you not see that bingle? And if it was a town way, someone would have said something by now. I can see your point about marci, I just find it incredibly unlikely.

I’m relegating thief to “likely scum redirector”/“potential hunter” status in the balance net. It’s likely that they are just here to fuck with our copsolving. I agree that they’re probably not directly town, but I think it very likely that the downside if they’re 3p is more along the lines of a guaranteed mislim than a sudden game loss, so they’re like lowest priority possible.

[Bingle]

Isn't that already one over what we expected in a game where multitasking is not a thing?

No it just barely fits. Also the inventor shot could feasibly be multitasked with another role IMO

If the scumventor isn’t multitasking that’s a pretty big fuck you from the mod.

[Bingle]

Here’s this ability that doesn’t really benefit you. Also, if you don’t use it you’re fucked.

[Bingle]

I’m trying to solve it but I know it isn’t our highest priority, clearing the dethy should be it first followed by the bookie.

Are you still adamant it’s marci?

No. I scumread Marci/FB/pengy all about the same, which is about where I want to be to have a serious wagon on D1. I will sheep if you tell me a different neighbor is scum.

[Bingle]

My “I will qh Marci” was personal annoyance at her making my phone play music unexpectedly in a room with my boss.

[Bingle]

She’s my absolute last pick of the bunch. I’m pretty heavily leaning sunflower from a PoE standpoint.

Is dann town? I have very little experience to go on with him.

The parts of the game both of us were active felt like the last game I limmed town Dann for being unimpressive, but ultimately I limmed him there.

Be back in about 15, starting my second 8 hour shift of the day.

[Bingle]

Ten four. I had to clarify with Marci because half the game has weird scumreads on her and while I realize she isn’t being the most helpful she’s not scum.

I disagree. She's not "being unhelpful". She's actively opposing solve attempts and then giving brief spurts of activity that looks vaguely helpful whenever her alignment gets called into question. It's only a little more than rand that she's scum here, but it's also a very low risk low reward play. And I think every scumread of her I've seen is completely reasonable.

[Bingle]

Spiff or bingle, can one of you hammer please?

Sure! VOTE: Please

[Bingle]

For reels tho, I gotchu notty.

VOTE: sunflower

[Bingle]

unless someone has a mech guilty on one of the hood members i'm not voting there today

I mean, have you considered the fact that we mislimmed 2 times in a row in the hood already and maybe it's time to recognize we're being scammed (shell game reference)

i do think there's one in {you / STD / wolfbae} but also we'll probably get closer to solving that by actually pressuring outside and pushing y'all to generate associatives

These two seem to be at loggerheads. The first is bonkers and the second is literally what I’ve been saying all game. It doesn’t matter if someone is in a hood, we should be scumhunting as if hoods don’t exist. If someone in the dethy is the scummiest player, we absolutely lim them.

[Bingle]

Firebringer- fire generally is pretty laid back in general, so the aggression here is very different from my memory of him. Fire scumreading me is nothing new, but I feel like it’s usually tempered in some measure of “I have no idea what’s going on with Bingle” that I don’t really have here.
Dunnstral - Has been progressively more towny as the game goes on, imo. Dunn knows how to manipulate and lead people to conclusions, but this just doesn’t feel like that. Dunn has been on the periphery offering a perspective that seems to be solidly town oriented since mid day one. I think he’s probably just town, and if he isn’t he’s got me pocketed.
Gypyx - Gypyx has not left much in the way of impressions, I should probably iso and develop a real read here.
Spiffeh - my impression is that spiff was getting lumped into the same pool as morph and notty without really doing anything to deserve it. What he’s posted is ~fine~ but not really worthy of being a townleader. And I definitely feel like he’s angling to be seen that way.
marcistar - has been blatantly manipulative since the word go and is active when she seems to be in danger. One of my few active scumreads. Still, she’s not wrong that wolf is wolfy and probably deserves at least a reread.
Oblivion - I think it’s town. Stale ass read, but I remember it being solvey in a way that was genuine sounding and just being unable to convince people.
Hermit Crab - masons!
Save The Dragons - low impact play I’ve come to expect from him. I’d like more perspective about the game overall, but I’m not super concerned with his alignment at the moment.
SirCakez - feels different than the cakez I’ve played with in recent memory. He’s more serious and it feels like he expects to need to be seen as solving instead of just giving off a “fuckit” vibe.
wolfbae - wants to be given the chance to swing the bat, but frankly: why? Nothing towny has come from this quarter, except maybe the self centered expectation that he be seen as both towny and hyper confident.
Bingle - masons!
PenguinPower - the early townread d1 has continued to wig me out. OTOH, pengy knows I don’t respond well to townreads and I’d expect him to be aware that he usually scumreads me, so maybe the weird read was genuine?
Dannflor - we had a few mind meld moments before I fell off of the game.
DragonEater70 - replacement? I wouldn’t mind engaging here in a couple days when I’m less sleep deprived.
Firebagel - I was solidly meh when she came up as a lim option, and I’m still solidly meh. I can’t think of anything I genuinely liked.
Cat Scratch Fever - CSF is in this game? Whoa.

[Bingle]

what's a loggerhead

An impass, two arguments that irreconcilably opposed. Generally refers to two people who are in conflict with mutually exclusive desires or beliefs.

[Bingle]

so like who's even scum in your PoV

Marci and fire are my strongest feels, followed by pp. But that’s not really why I wrote that. I don’t have strong scumreads and I’m open to being convinced. That’s literally what came to mind when I looked down the plist and it’s an open invitation to tell me why I’m wrong.

[Bingle]

You’re not? One is “neighbor status shouldn’t matter” and the other is “let’s lim outside the neighborhood.”

[Bingle]

What has CSF done that’s pretty obvtown?

[Bingle]

So if all three cop enters are scummy as shit and we have mechanically better odds limming there than limming outside (1/3 compared to 2or3/13) why not consider limming them?

[Bingle]

What has CSF done that’s pretty obvtown?

claiming miller when unknown cop sanities are a big part of the setup, overall posting, being on the Brian wagon

Ah right, I forgot about the Miller claim.

Why do you think being on the Brian wagon is towny? I feel like scum probably burned that one fast.

[Bingle]

Spiffeh, morph, marci, Dunnstral, Sunflower, Pooky, SirCakez, Penguin, CSF, Lukewarm, Firebagel, Hermit

Brian wagon. How many scum do you think were involved and do you think they were front or back heavy?

[Bingle]

So if all three cop enters are scummy as shit and we have mechanically better odds limming there than limming outside (1/3 compared to 2or3/13) why not consider limming them?

because it's gonna be very easy for us to get misdirected when compared to the outside PoE that looks "big" but actually has quite a lot of slots you can rule out by virtue of towniness, also really it's more like we have 3/4 out of 13, a 4 man scumteam in such a large game sounds preposterous

FWIW I think a 4 person scum group is like 65% of the cases given implied presence of scum bookie and actual presence of scum backup bookie. Double scum kills in a game this size balance like an additional member. If there was also a 6p scumteam this would be horribly scumsided.

[Bingle]

y'all really are focusing hard on that Brian vote point where it's just some shit i added cause i thought it looks cool lmao

I frankly don’t give a shit about whether it was polished. I give a shit about what you think when we attempt to polish it. It’s better for me if you’re working out your thoughts in real time.

[Bingle]

It’s not though?

Bookie and backup means you expect the role to live to late game. Bookie becomes much more likely to trigger as the game goes on. Say bookie is alive on D4, scum fakes a guilty. 1 mislim, 2 nks 1 lim on scum 2 nks. That’s reasonably a five town for one scum trade. If there’s also a 6p scumteam that’s just backbreakingly powerful.

[Bingle]

shocking news, i don't spend 10 minutes pondering every single one of my posts

You shouldn't need to if you are town. You seem to hold different stances on the brian wagon depending on who you are talking about, and it seems that you are simply saying they could have bussed when you are proclaiming a scumread, and being on the wagon is towny when you are proclaiming a townread.

What’s the conclusion here, Dunn?

[Bingle]

me when oddskeep

Sure, which is why the oddskeeper exists. But the bookies, balance wise, are probably considered to be 2-3 extra kills over the course of the game.

[Bingle]

Tldr, 5:17 requires a pretty decent amount of town power to balance without scum getting extra kills. Bring in a scum one shot vig, and we’re low power wise from what I see of the setup. Scum also have redirection and blocking capabilities, which means strong scumteam which means probably not 6:16 and very possibly 4:18.

[Bingle]

shocking news, i don't spend 10 minutes pondering every single one of my posts

You shouldn't need to if you are town. You seem to hold different stances on the brian wagon depending on who you are talking about, and it seems that you are simply saying they could have bussed when you are proclaiming a scumread, and being on the wagon is towny when you are proclaiming a townread.

What’s the conclusion here, Dunn?

They hold inconsistent opinions, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are mafia.

I do think they felt a bit too defensive when they said they don't spend 10 minutes writing their posts.

So a bit concerned now when before I had them as lean town

I’m actually at solid town. The defensiveness came when you piled in to what probably came across as aggressive probing from a pseudo conftown. Her stance on limming outside of the neighborhood is the right amount of nuanced to be a thing she feels strongly about and the argument makes logical sense. The having a read but not having a clear reason for it is pretty likely town, she’d be more likely to be prepared as scum.

[Bingle]

Save The Dragons - low impact play I’ve come to expect from him. I’d like more perspective about the game overall, but I’m not super concerned with his alignment at the moment.

i suggest checking out my posts, i've made my stances pretty clear

Fair enough. As mentioned, that post was just my gth thoughts about the plist, but if you think I should have a read on you I’ll prioritize iso-ing you. I do remember a lot of “how do I read std” chatter in the neighborhood, so maybe it’ll be useful.

[Bingle]

I don't know Bingle

maybe I want a turn because your leadership fucking sucks and you're ruining the game

maybe I don't like having no agency while you run it up mid the whole game

how's that for a thought?

First of all, what leadership?

I've barely been playing. I've been mostly sheeping my mason partner on every lim.

Second of all, this is a game of mafia. "I get unilateral control because I'm mad now grrr." is not a thing that I'm ever going to take seriously.

Third, this is a game. Your aggression is unwarranted and you should calm the fuck down.

And no. You are in 0 ways 'towny'.

[Bingle]

The worst part for it is if Wolfbae was someone it could townread confidently it would be begging to work with them at this point to come to consensus and solve, because the feelings of alienation are strong within it too.

FWIW, Oblivion, I am 100% willing to work with you. You're one of the few names I do feel is confidently town.

[Bingle]

I am not really following the whole thief shenanigans that much. Its background noise to me.

As it well should be. It's a giant red herring. You don't approach a game with a scum roleblocker by going: okay who could be a roleblocker? before massclaim.

[Bingle]

The worst part for it is if Wolfbae was someone it could townread confidently it would be begging to work with them at this point to come to consensus and solve, because the feelings of alienation are strong within it too.

The issue is it doesn't have a townread on Wolfbae at all so it's like "the player saying this could also be scum trying to capitalize on that feeling too?"

Which sucks.

I have a confident townread on wolfbae, if that helps. There was some subtle stuff going on yesterday that I just don't think scum even thinks to do, let alone does.

Please show receipts.

[Bingle]

And this is why i townread u.
I literally tried to give u ammo to call me out on not answering ur questions and u never took the bait on it.
Good job passing the test

Wakanda nonsense is this?

This is like, Slayers Gambit levels of bullshit.

I gave you a legitimate reason to think I'm scum and yet you didn't call me out on it, so clearly you're town who doesn't think legitimate reasons to think I'm scum are worth addressing.