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We both know there is nothing thay could've prevented me putting us in the small hood together unless we were both red team so you should be townreading me for it
I don't see why it's a guarantee that you neighbourize me if evil? I've had a very good track record of being read well early on in my summer on ms playing with you so like, it's not out of the realm of possibility you as scum just avoid that day 2 1v1 that would prolly happen.
On the other hand, you're a being of chaos and you would've loved that so sure you can be town for now.
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Post #75 (isolation #11) » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:21 pm
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 73, fireisredsir wrote:
i guess i don't really have strong opinions about it but my vibe is unironically that dann scum arranges things differently
and on the other side i could pretty easily imagine ari scum setting things up this way
any reasons outside of vibes for these or nah?
i've only played with el and dann here and with dann it was only one day phase lol, so I can't rly comment much on the arrangements bar El stuff (and I've said my piece there already)
i see the groups -> my eye is immediately drawn to dann as someone who like stands out as someone i want to focus on and sort in our group -> i think dann would probably want to avoid this singular focus bc he is dann the deepwolf -> dann probably doesn't make that choice as scum
would it not make sense for the deepwolf player to sit in the bigger group? surely you stick out more in the group with less people to sort right?
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Post #78 (isolation #13) » Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:44 pm
Postby OopsieDaisy »
oohhhhh or are you saying he would want to avoid being focused by specifically you and by placing himself in your neighbourhood he's opening himself up to focus?
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Post #96 (isolation #16) » Mon Dec 11, 2023 6:55 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 94, Dannflor wrote:
I watched The Giggle last night and it was fine. I liked it better than The Star Beast but less than Wild Blue Yonder. I think in general the pacing for all of the specials felt a bit... overstuffed? Which maybe is just a consequence of there only being 3 specials that are also wildly ambitious. Overall, it's been a bit campier than I like my Who, but a lot of the character work has been spot on. NPH as the Toymaker was great. I have mixed feelings about the ending in general. I worry that the conceit of the ending overshadows Ncuti Gatwa in some ways and also plays into the series' long running flaw of not really being able to let characters go - but the character work and ideas behind it are technically fine I suppose. Maybe, I'm just older and grumpier now than when I first started watching Doctor Who - or maybe my tastes have changed. I did really like Wild Blue Yonder though.
Yea WBY definited benefitted from being a more standalone adventure and is 100% the best in isolation. I liked how the themes of identity from TSB and regret/trauma from WBY culminated in The Giggle and hard agree on NPH he killedddd it. The ending feels like a way of being able to put some of these themes to rest to leave room for new stuff to explore, and I do like it *if* it's interpreted that way. In terms of other ways being talked about, yea they undermine so much about the series, and so hopefully the details are left mostly vague and we're not gonna get constant fanservice in leiu of actual well-written stories.
I'm sorta in a state of post-chibnall euphoria where everything I'm getting that isn't god awful *feels* that much more amazing. I am looking forward to what seems to be a much campier, letting-its-hair-down approach to Doccy Who, but I'm a fruity zoomer so like it's no surprise I'm gonna like it I'm basically the target audience lmao. Will be interesting to see if my opinions of these specials change after Ncuti's run has properly got going.
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Post #135 (isolation #18) » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:33 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 131, Dannflor wrote:
i think being scum in the small hood is much harder than being scum in the large hood
depends on the skillset but i'd mostly agree. a player who's more indexed to doing well in like, day 1/2 rather than later game stuff would wanna be scum in the smaller hood. all they'd have to do is get one of the others executed and then die and they've basically done their job as long as there aren't lingering associatives. obvs if there are players that aren't reliable at vibe-reading well early then that boinks them and they'd wanna be in the big hood but i think the answer is a bit more subjective yea
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Post #141 (isolation #20) » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:41 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 138, fireisredsir wrote:
the line of logic from dann and daisy here is also what i was thinking for ari over ydra being more likely to opt into small hood
idk elements' scum style
el's early game play typically ends with them hovering as neutral or scummy to those unfamiliar with their playstyle, so initially the line of logic leads to it being questionable for el to opt into this, however scum!el themselves is very good at messing around with associatives and if the goal is to tank the death without outing the other scum el is a strong sacrificial lamb.
and again el is a fan of fun/chaos a lot of the time so a lot of the "optimal play" logic can go flying out the window trying to read em.
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Post #142 (isolation #21) » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:42 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
should mention that neutral/scummy early game is the case as either alignment, and people who know their meta are a lot less likely to just eject the slot day 1.
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Post #144 (isolation #22) » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:44 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
my most recent scumgame with el involved them distancing rly well from me and my reads leading straight to el as my partner, so that's where i'm getting the associatives thing from.
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Post #171 (isolation #26) » Mon Dec 11, 2023 3:58 pm
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 170, JupiterXV wrote:
btw oopsiedaisy i haven't read through town but your avtar is a bellossom and i've been a fan of pokemon for YEARS. i watched the show as a child (all seasons), collected cards but i didn't really properly get into it until 2021. i just wanted to say it gave me a kick of nolstalgia
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Post #185 (isolation #30) » Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:27 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
everyone starts at 1/3 odds in the small hood.
i've explained how i've got a lot of conflicting thoughts on the el slot, but there's nothing too concerning there so el stays at 1/3
sheeping ydrasse meta analysis for now cause i don't have knowledge on the slot, seems like an unlikely player to opt into the small hood. 1/6.
that leaves ari who hasn't rly townpinged me with anything they've done whatsoever and as i've talked about earlier there's an air of self-protection around the slot that feels scummy. 1/2 is what's left.
In post 215, OopsieDaisy wrote:
el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:
In post 53, Elements wrote:
Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game
question, if elements is wolf and you’re town do you think that elements is likely to play around the meta knowledge you have of them?
of course, el loves playing around with meta. but also people push el in most games based on reasons that are just NAI for em. my current thought process with reading the slot is seeing how others interact with em, and right now gamestate tells me that people wanna push em rather than people wanna ignore em. former usually indicates townie el being targeted for weird play.
obvs there are nuances here, smaller game + being in the small hood means el is instantly in the spotlight so idk how much this kind of read holds up in this setup? but i know right now el is playing like el usually does. nothing has pinged me as particularly scummy so i'm chilling with the read.
In post 215, OopsieDaisy wrote:
el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:
In post 53, Elements wrote:
Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game
my point was that it felt more like "i have to do this in order to look town" rather than something they actually wanted to do
that's fair. i'm just desensitised to el wagon run-ups so it doesn't feel in any way out of place for el to be making that vote.
In post 215, OopsieDaisy wrote:
el is known for running up any wagon they see, they even put a disclaimer saying they wanted to avoid doing it to cause e-1's this game here:
In post 53, Elements wrote:
Before anyone says anything I'm not planning on trying to push anyone to e-1 early this game
question, if elements is wolf and you’re town do you think that elements is likely to play around the meta knowledge you have of them?
of course, el loves playing around with meta. but also people push el in most games based on reasons that are just NAI for em. my current thought process with reading the slot is seeing how others interact with em, and right now gamestate tells me that people wanna push em rather than people wanna ignore em. former usually indicates townie el being targeted for weird play.
obvs there are nuances here, smaller game + being in the small hood means el is instantly in the spotlight so idk how much this kind of read holds up in this setup? but i know right now el is playing like el usually does. nothing has pinged me as particularly scummy so i'm chilling with the read.
is elements getting ignored of any significance in other situations?
yea i think so. el's play does merit responses. they hop on a lot of wagons and are generally a big prescence in the games they're in, so players typically read into those moves. in this game we've already seen how one move has merited a chain of reads to go off. in games where el is scum their play just isn't the topic of conversation in the group as much, because partners don't want the focus to be on their scumbuddy cause that means they then have to make stances on el and thus associatives are born.
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Post #234 (isolation #39) » Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:50 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
i have fallen into the trap before of just brainlessly pushing a town el because the group at large don't rly care for the slot, so it's not a perfect read by any means, but it's where my head is at w/ el
In post 93, OopsieDaisy wrote:
Posts like 83 & 91 have rubbed me the wrong way. They're making me feel like Ari is trying to push focus away from herself/her hood.
what do you think town!me would be doing differently?
Dang just noticed I missed this thanks to Ari's post this page.
It's difficult because what I read in 83 and 91 was scumhunting but scumhunting with an ulterior motive behind the posts. 83 & 91 were on the surface just posts made to keep a scumhunt focused on a specific set of players, allowing it to be easier for people to sort. Issue is I read them and also saw scum motivation in pushing away from the idea of limming in your hood, keeping yourself safe and having a much easier time getting a mislim off in the bigger pool of players.
For what it's worth your posts this page have eased my concerns somewhat. Wasn't an initial fan of the Afrayed push but post 253 clearly outlines a thought process that is objectively pro!town, poking/prodding more passive players to participate in the conversation and provide reads. Not impossible to come from mafia but good for game health as a whole.
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Post #269 (isolation #43) » Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:10 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In terms of big hood:
Meuh - Read very well to me at the start of the game. Had some nuanced insights into setup stuff that I appreciated.
Dann - Played one game with before but am getting great vibes from the slot again, feels easy to bounce off of his thought processes. Could be the mythical "Dann deepwolf" but for now I'm considering him town
Jupiter - Response to sudden vote out came off very uninformed about the game so my gut read is town. Obvs this isn't perfect but with nothing else from the slot it's all I've got to go off of right now. Hopefully they come in soon with some big insights.
Afrayed - I think pressure here has done it's job. I don't think Afrayed will be able to conjure up any more reads thanks to the votes on em.
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Post #304 (isolation #45) » Wed Dec 13, 2023 11:35 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
Black's return is ok. Nothing stuck out too much to me, bar the fact that the last person who called me LAMIST was scum and I let em have that read cause it makes sense w/ my playstyle. Don't think that means much tho, I am just a very LAMIST-y player fr.
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Post #344 (isolation #47) » Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:23 pm
Postby OopsieDaisy »
If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).
Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.
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Post #355 (isolation #48) » Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:32 pm
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 344, OopsieDaisy wrote:
If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).
Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.
I suppose there's a world where El is like, the sacrificial lamb for a nuts good player to be put in the better position. I can see a world where El and another player were discussing where to go and couldn't agree so El just took the L and small hooded it
In post 344, OopsieDaisy wrote:
If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).
Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.
this is interesting because - is that actually the expectation of the small hood? i feel like this setup's been ran enough that people who are familiar with it know that you can autowin on D1 which is an alluring choice.
afaik el's played this setup irl with me a lot and there the expectation is that the small hood is murdered every time. i only realised that going for the other hood might be good after this game started.
In post 344, OopsieDaisy wrote:
If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).
Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.
If Elements is scum then wouldn't it make more sense to go into the small hood from this perspective? If they get faded in the big hood then it's just gg
I think scum!Elements would put herself into the small hood and try to keep the attention on the big hood just like she's been doing
I think 355 covers this? I came into this game with the expectation that the small hood is the early lim zone so that's where someone who is good at avoiding early lims would go in my mind. Obvs if you get faded D1 as scum in the big hood it is GG but it's so much harder to get faded in a 1/6 than it is in a 1/3 right? The probability of the El misfade is a lot smaller if she would be in the big group imo.
In post 344, OopsieDaisy wrote:
If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).
Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.
this is interesting because - is that actually the expectation of the small hood? i feel like this setup's been ran enough that people who are familiar with it know that you can autowin on D1 which is an alluring choice.
afaik el's played this setup irl with me a lot and there the expectation is that the small hood is murdered every time. i only realised that going for the other hood might be good after this game started.
I do not remember playing this setup ever
fr? that's crazy we've played it a good number of times at mafia. guess you weren't there then lol, my point dissipates
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Post #376 (isolation #52) » Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:51 pm
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 370, fireisredsir wrote:
we had this discussion earlier and i did look at the other runs of this. it's mostly been small hood lim first (4 to 2) but the big hood lims have been more successful
yea like my logic playing this setup prior to this forum game has always been to just vibe check the 3 small hood players and get the player who's vibes are the worst voted out. guarantees a final 3 even in the worst case scenario.
issue is even if you get lucky and bink the right person day 1, you then have only that day of associations to go off of. doesn't mean as much irl cause it's not like everyone's comments/votes are listed it's a lot more about fast-paced social reads, but i realise now on forum that it's not like we're in a race against time where we just wanna guarantee the most days, we just need to make each day as valuable as possible for info alongside hopefully getting mafia out.
In post 344, OopsieDaisy wrote:
If people want me to explain my read on El from an in-game context, I struggle to see why they choose to be in the small hood based on the fact that they're a player who doesn't get consistent early townreads in games (not even from me).
Like if the expectation is that the small hood gets the focus, and you know that you're a player who is often hovering in danger of mislims Day 1, why would that be a good idea? The only answer I find is the WIFOM angle.
this is interesting because - is that actually the expectation of the small hood? i feel like this setup's been ran enough that people who are familiar with it know that you can autowin on D1 which is an alluring choice.
afaik el's played this setup irl with me a lot and there the expectation is that the small hood is murdered every time. i only realised that going for the other hood might be good after this game started.
I do not remember playing this setup ever
fr? that's crazy we've played it a good number of times at mafia. guess you weren't there then lol, my point dissipates
what do you make of the fact I've said the opposite of what you've said about me picking hoods?
it's cringe but we move. weakens the point cause if you're applying the opposite logic you're exactly where you wanna be lmao
LAMIST stands for "Look at me, I'm so town!" and it describes a playstyle that players can see as a bit of a scumtell as it revolves around someone acting townie but in a performative way where their actions seem motivated by a want to look good rather than actually wanting to play a townie game.
Gets thrown at me a lot cause I am a player that wants to look good. My logic is that if I'm townread it puts me in a better position to control the game and therefore puts scum in a worse position to do so, alongside the fact that if I'm townread scum are just more likely to go down. Plus tbf I just play my best mafia in comfortable spots, under pressure sometimes I can just crack as town which is cringe but wcyd. Obvs the difference between LAMIST as a scumtell and LAMIST with me is that I play in a LAMIST way regardless of alignment, whereas for other players being LAMIST about things can be a genuine tell.
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Post #417 (isolation #55) » Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:40 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
In post 409, Afrayed Knott wrote:
I forgot to add, I don't feel the Meuh wagon at all. but again I could be bias
What's the reasoning behind the feeling?
My read on Meuh slipped when I realised my reason for townreading em was flawed. She originally came into the hood with a more nuanced take on how the hoods should operate and I was like "woah she knows what she's on about I like her". This isn't a good reason to townread someone tho, having that pre-knowledge if anything is very slightly mafia-indicative cause they're the ones who would've been chatting in their pt about the setup and their positioning prior to the start of the game.
Plus my vote was on Fire but 307 was imo a great post and outlined a thought process I'm reading as genuine. Doesn't feel like something Fire just pulled out of their ass to hastily justify shakiness on me, it feels like this is something that's been playing on Fire's mind for a good chunk of this game.
i've explained how i've got a lot of conflicting thoughts on the el slot, but there's nothing too concerning there so el stays at 1/3
sheeping ydrasse meta analysis for now cause i don't have knowledge on the slot, seems like an unlikely player to opt into the small hood. 1/6.
that leaves ari who hasn't rly townpinged me with anything they've done whatsoever and as i've talked about earlier there's an air of self-protection around the slot that feels scummy. 1/2 is what's left.
How have your small hood reads changed since this post?
Idk it's a bit of a mess. I still wanna sheep Ydra meta stuff and on the surface I like what she's posting, but Black sorta threw that into question in her catch-up. Ari did a nice push on Afrayed I liked but since then hasn't done all that much (from what I remember of the game at least). I'm a bit stuck on how to read you too cause it seems my logic on your slot is a bit flawed based on how you're presenting your logic with the hoods.
tl:dr - the small hood isn't shaping up to be an easy boink out and that's cringe
In post 420, Elements wrote:
I feel like I'm being very naysayery about most expressed tonreads this game
But not much has happened yet so :shrug:
Maybe I'm too focused on could rather than would
Yea my recent go-to motto I yoinked off of someone's mafia guide who I can't remember the name of is "Town rely on probability, Mafia rely on possibility". You want to be focused on the probable worlds as a townie, not the crazy paranoia tunnels that are technically a possibility but ultimately not a hugely probable world in the game.
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Post #427 (isolation #59) » Thu Dec 14, 2023 2:02 am
Postby OopsieDaisy »
Not saying you're doing that but it's marked a shift in how I read people. Ari could be red and have made that push for townpoints, or she's just town and made a good push. I think the latter is more likely than the former so boom.