open 896: describing conker (game over)

[shiki]

hi hi hi +)

haven't read anything but i'll get on that shortly

[shiki]

okay let's see

first instinct from the split is that it's like

elements and someone familiar with aristeia/ydrasse?

idk

a lot of levels involved prolly but that's the way split makes the most sense to me right now

[shiki]

VOTE: jupiter
If we hit the red team member in the group of 5 day 1 we just win right?

i do like this though

[shiki]

VOTE: jupiter
If we hit the red team member in the group of 5 day 1 we just win right?

i do like this though

but also probably something one thinks about before having an alignment

[shiki]

Anyone else got any thoughts if anyone would neighbourise with specific people?

it is like

sure aristeia/ydrasse might choose that small neighbourhood composition but also meuh/fireisredsir would probably choose it for them as well like the whole thing is meta reliant and not particularly worthwhile to examine in great depth

but i do think it's noteworthy you want to encourage people to talk about it (without really talking about it yourself outside of 'i would be with oopsiedaisy')

[shiki]

i think the nice thing about this setup is that it does give you some info immediately to talk about bc scum made decisions about who goes where

i guess i don't really have strong opinions about it but my vibe is unironically that dann scum arranges things differently

and on the other side i could pretty easily imagine ari scum setting things up this way

hmmmm, how do you think scum!dannflor arranges things?

like strong scums especially one good at town(mis)leading in big hood makes sense to me and beyond that it's mostly just giving himself best angles to set up the endgame he wants i assume

[shiki]

i guess my thought process with dann went like:

i see the groups -> my eye is immediately drawn to dann as someone who like stands out as someone i want to focus on and sort in our group -> i think dann would probably want to avoid this singular focus bc he is dann the deepwolf -> dann probably doesn't make that choice as scum

oh i see

not really sure how much sense this makes because like...

the smaller group is more likely to be focused on/singled out/less good for deepwolves

and!

i don't really think dannflor would want aristeia in same grouping (who might pull earlygame focus but!) undesirable to try to endgame

[shiki]

i should probably read more than the following two posts before commenting on something while catching up

[shiki]

elements feels like their position on ari developed as a result of ari's read on ydra (which sets up a 1v1) rather than being a natural result of their own read on ydra or ari

hmhmhm

okay but why would scum!elements want to 1v1 aristeia in this position

(though elements then immediately returns to 'but i wanna focus on the big hood' which, eh, could be because of your drawing attention to it but also consistent with earlier, so)

[shiki]

elements feels like their position on ari developed as a result of ari's read on ydra (which sets up a 1v1) rather than being a natural result of their own read on ydra or ari

hmhmhm

okay but why would scum!elements want to 1v1 aristeia in this position

(though elements then immediately returns to 'but i wanna focus on the big hood' which, eh, could be because of your drawing attention to it but also consistent with earlier, so)

i thought it felt like they felt forced into it, not that they wanted to

do you think elements generally feels the need to take a stance in a situation like that as a scums rather than just let time pass

[shiki]

the fire bit im a bit iffy on but i think there's like a 50/50 chance ari flips scum

there's a 0% chance I flip scum

If we're wrong we can flip ydra after and vindicate you

idk doesn't really feel, simply reactive, to me

[shiki]

why would i not want to put ari in the same group as me?

because if you want to eliminate in the small hood (presumed due to scum abilities et cetera) you want to be able to nightkill whoever is perceived to be most valuable to town and aristeia can be difficult to endgame so i assume you would not want to limit options

[shiki]

aristeia being in small hood lets you nightkill whoever you want in your hood without having to worry about this and also limits aristeia's time in the game

[shiki]

aristeia being in small hood lets you nightkill whoever you want in your hood without having to worry about this and also limits aristeia's time in the game

assuming your gameplan would be to push elim in small hood, which i think it would be if you're a wolf here yeah

[shiki]

I protect myself as both alignments

+))

[shiki]

well good news

I wanna kill in the big hood

currently me tho +/ and i know i'm town, so!

[shiki]

though i do wonder why you found it noteworthy that black didn't comment on you/aristeia

(haven't actually read the context of this yet thus why i didn't ask earlier but since you're here)

[shiki]

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

VOTE: afrayed knott

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

oo what's the motivation behind these votes?

In terms of big hood:
Meuh - Read very well to me at the start of the game. Had some nuanced insights into setup stuff that I appreciated.
Dann - Played one game with before but am getting great vibes from the slot again, feels easy to bounce off of his thought processes. Could be the mythical "Dann deepwolf" but for now I'm considering him town
Jupiter - Response to sudden vote out came off very uninformed about the game so my gut read is town. Obvs this isn't perfect but with nothing else from the slot it's all I've got to go off of right now. Hopefully they come in soon with some big insights.
Afrayed - I think pressure here has done it's job. I don't think Afrayed will be able to conjure up any more reads thanks to the votes on em.

That leaves Fire.

VOTE: Fire

VOTE: fire

VOTE: fire

What makes you want to vote fire?

[shiki]

oopsiedaisy aristeia unvote felt good, aristeia interactions with afrayed knott preceding it pretty towny yeah, towny on both sides really as oopsiedaisy also said

[shiki]

VOTE: fire

What makes you want to vote fire?

knott wagon: 2 consecutive votes, elements responds by joining the wagon
my wagon: 2 consecutive votes, elements responds by questioning the wagon

what caused the difference in response?

!!! yeah this

[shiki]

to expand, i think it is more focused on looking good than actually getting alignment indicative content from knott

i also think 257 is kinda awkward and pockety?

for the knott part, it didn't seem off to me, i think he tries to reach out to people like that as town (usually giving them like, one chance) if she isn't confident that they're scum

the pocket on me probably worked though

it's the helpfulness towards getting a specific low content slot into the game thing like people often want to scumread it but it really doesn't come from scums particularly often in my experience (and generally makes the game better for town) though is also probably +partner equity

[shiki]

to expand, i think it is more focused on looking good than actually getting alignment indicative content from knott

i also think 257 is kinda awkward and pockety?

for the knott part, it didn't seem off to me, i think he tries to reach out to people like that as town (usually giving them like, one chance) if she isn't confident that they're scum

the pocket on me probably worked though

it's not the reach out i have a problem with. there's specific ways that stuff is phrased within the post that feels a little over wrought from Ari and is reminiscent of posts i am drawn to make as scum because i know they will make me look good

like idk that town Ari actually feels like she needs to say "im sorry if this feels overwhelming"

like in general i just think the post is a bit over wrought and it could've been a couple paragraphs shorter and to the point and would've gotten the same amount across and the rest of it is for optics

and that is how i personally imagine town!ari would have written such a post

i might be wrong im not an Ari expert but that's what I'm feeling right now

I also believe that Elements doesn't put himself in a hood with Ari/ydra and I town read Ydrasse

idk to me it feels very much like a post i would write as town or... to a partner, yeah

[shiki]

i haven’t been able to find anything really towny from fire, play feels kind of fluffy to me.

i haven’t been able to find anything really towny from fire, play feels kind of fluffy to me.

What do you mean by fluffy, this in itself sounds opportunistic to me to get on the wagon

i don’t feel like fire is playing to their like… best capabilities right now and is falling back on being more social than actually solving? there’s a lot of the fun posts (and everyone should make fun posts from time to time)

my expectations for a town fire are more than this, it is early but i think most games town fire would have down something explicitly towny to me. that hasn’t happened this game so therefore, wagon. wagon for 1000 years

i mean, i'd agree that fireisredsir is not playing to their outer limits and such obviously, but also said they'd be posting less and eh, idk

like sure i feel similarly but! you feel so narrow here to me, hopefully less so in future but so far interactions feel so, chosen, ya know

[shiki]

Welcome Shiki.

thankyou!

what do you think is particularly important so far for me to look at with the big magnifying glass?

[shiki]

shiiiiiiiiki

i am v tired but: yes things are chosen in a way and that way is just what interests me. i don’t feel strongly about much this game so it’s hard to really feel engaged and i assume that’ll change if we have a day two

but for now i sleep

at some points i kinda wondered this like especially early when questioning oopsiedaisy as it felt like how i view things when the game is moving and such, can settle into passive role and such, focus on what i want to, but also there's a lot of scum situations where one does so, so hard to discern

have a good night! +)

[shiki]

hello shiki it is nice to see you again

it is nice to see you as well

are you still at 75% re:dannflor being a wolf?

[shiki]

Well from what I’ve read so far I would say you’re already looking at how people have been sorted and why that would be. This is a new game play for me so it’s interesting to understand the dynamic of “what happens if this happens etc’. But I do get it now. Its clear you’re also looking at possible associations, which I’m still, again, trying to get onside with. For me reading these types of solves helps me make decisions in game so keep doing that

well it's like, much more prominent here than usual as the scums chose the hoods to be the way it is and are presumably playing accordingly, and if one member of hood is a scums none of the others can be so it makes the worlds much simpler than usual

it's funny you mention the associatives though since one of my main ones involves you lol

[shiki]

oh hm

[shiki]

idk your interactions with afrayed knott and then with elements around meuh wagon feel good to me

[shiki]

which like, also think meuh's reaction to wagon makes sense - i too benefit greatly from players interacting with me in ways that will help them see that i am town and i also don't think voting me accomplishes that so it felt fine

there's like, an odd amount of noone considering that to you and elements it's fifty percent you're mafia and if you want the wagon why would elements hammer etc but! still ten pages to go

[shiki]

right now my most confident scum read is ari tbh and I’d prefer to just lim there even tho it’s small hood

I’ll try to reread next time i make it to thread and figure out where i think scum in the big hood is

atm i like fire’s push on oopsie but i havent thought about it enough yet

Also think black is town

VOTE: black

in addition to previous question could you walk me through your thought process/how you got from a to b since none of it seems to have made it into the thread

[shiki]

Ok gamers I'm just stuck right now. Essentially I wanted to look at other people in the big hood who hadn't been posting much like Afrayed and Dann but I've come to the realisation I can't rly do that without solving Fire first. He's the one person left in the POE so in order to break past that I need to justify to my head why I can let myself push past that.

The issue is I don't know how to solve Fire because he's mostly just been pushing me in recent pages and I don't know how to separate my bias from just objectively analysing the push. It's completely broke my brain lol. Like I think the push is just a bit shit and uses one mid read of mine to justify continuing to sit on me for the entire game, but it doesn't look like anyone in the game actually agrees with me on this so is it just bias?

I've wanted to maybe look at associatives in the small hood but with El there's been little interaction (El was on the push onto Fire but El's been on p much every push this game lmao) and Ari's 575 feels like way too easy of a fold on what is a good point towards me being town so I think both of the sussy small hood gamers are likely to be with a scum!Fire in a scum!Fire world, tho based on gamestate I prefer my vote being on El right now.

I'll be honest Dann and Ari just seem like they're talking past each other based on a skim, but I've not had the energy to properly analyse any recent posting so take that with a grain of salt.

this post is so odd to me - time traveler energy feels so removed from everything around it

and solving afrayed knott or dannflor solves fireisredsir i don't really understand why there need be any order whatsoever

solving anyone person in the big hood solves them all

[shiki]

solving anyone person in the big hood solves them all

at least solving as a scums, if you find one to be town then sure, but it seems difficulty in solving fireisredsir would simply lead to you trying to solve others instead to solve fireisredsir that way, no?

[shiki]

and if you find all but one to be town then that works as well, i guess i don't understand why that would be a hangup

or what made you make that post at that time

[shiki]

anyway i am caught up-ish

will be around for a bit in the morning when i wake up (~6 hours) to try to think about things with a clearer head i know we have limited time

[shiki]

[shiki]

it's mostly difficult to see where it came from

right, like, the only mention of any suspicions regarding was about black townreading dannflor too easily, and then dannflor townread multiple things from black and said black was town, even while presenting aristeia as most likely scums,

and then suddenly black was a scums to dannflor both with aristeia and without and i guess it's hard for me to see how lack of interaction in that like 160 post window would have been so convincing to him

[shiki]

which like, sure maybe it just wasn't committed to the thread i certainly change how i am viewing things without doing so frequently but even then it's hard for me to follow

like if i'm going to base partner equity on 'black is not interacting with aristeia' and part of that case is also 'black is not interacting with me' it's like, ??? and i guess looking at it at no point did it feel like black was avoiding interaction to me i get that my view there is biased by my knowledge of alignment but it's not like dannflor or aristeia are really trying to interact with black and black is dodging it or anything

[shiki]

as always

[shiki]

idk how confident i’m feeling about hero shooting in the big neighbourhood right now

also it’s probably noteworthy that all of the movement vote wise and such is within such a small subset of players and everyone else just seems fine with letting it be

[shiki]

shiki feels like it's dancing around a read on me

why would this ‘dancing’ as you call it be scum indicative and not, ya know, me not knowing your alignment?

[shiki]

i can vote you if you’d like though

[shiki]

? i don’t have a lack of opinion though

i guess i misunderstood what you meant by dancing

[shiki]

thought you meant like, unsure not having concrete stance, not like ‘lacking in opinions’

[shiki]

? i don’t have a lack of opinion though

i guess i misunderstood what you meant by dancing

i cannot tell what you think my alignment is atm

it feels like you don't want to explicitly say anything about me, you just wanna shade me

? your alignment is possibly town possibly not town? i think your stances with regards to my slot are ??? and the expectation that black would interact with you/aristeia differently if she was town seems … to me

but i am unaware of your past interactions with her so not going to put much weight on that

[shiki]

i can vote you if you’d like though

please do

VOTE: dannflor

unsure how this is productive from your point of view but alas

[shiki]

my point is you haven't really expressed anything concrete about my slot!

you keep asking people about me and expressing doubt about my thought processes and reads which would make me think you scum read me but you also talk about not feeling comfortable hero shooting in the big hood which makes me think you don't have any significant scum reads yet

i don't know i am getting the feeling that you *want* to push me but don't actually want to me the one to do it

pedit: i mean i guess it's fine if your opinion is just "I dunno yet"

I know you've just replaced in

but i think you've found a number of things "wrong" with my slot in terms of my stances and expectations regarding you so it's curious to me that isn't instantly ringing bigger alarm bells for you if you're town here

because my thoughts aren’t black and white in this way? and it seems very strange to me that you would expect them to be?

not confident hero shooting because my confidence not high enough to outweigh choosing the less safe option right now

i don’t ‘want’ to push anyone that’s not really how i play would rather interact on length make best choice based on information i have see if it still feels right as people react to etc

i don’t think you understand how i express ‘alarm bells’ in general because those things i’m noting are just that

[shiki]

i can vote you if you’d like though

please do

VOTE: dannflor

unsure how this is productive from your point of view but alas

well i think you're scum and it is productive to me for focus to be brought to me versus you rather than everyone pushing their own vanity wagons

only i’m not a scums and if you’re not then this is just purely destructive

when you could just like interact with me in a way that gives you a chance to see that i’m town if you’re town

rather than like challenging me to push you and calling me a coward and such

which sure i am i don’t like to be wrong even now i want to unvote etc but like, shrug

[shiki]

some pertinent information is that we do have about 24 hours on the deadline so we do need to be choosing who we would most like to eliminate

i am aware of this and was working towards just that; thus why i was expressing preference for eliminating in the smaller hood

[shiki]

when you could just like interact with me in a way that gives you a chance to see that i’m town if you’re town

ok do your thing and try to find scum

you're right that engaging you like this isn't really doing anything to change my mind

well because it isn’t meant to like saying ‘push me let’s 1v1’ has no possible town benefit if you’re town and gives me no chance to be town from your point of view because then it’s just purely - - -

[shiki]

is your preference elements?

probably ydrasse as of this exact moment but not feeling great about that either

[shiki]

Ok gamers I'm just stuck right now. Essentially I wanted to look at other people in the big hood who hadn't been posting much like Afrayed and Dann but I've come to the realisation I can't rly do that without solving Fire first. He's the one person left in the POE so in order to break past that I need to justify to my head why I can let myself push past that.

The issue is I don't know how to solve Fire because he's mostly just been pushing me in recent pages and I don't know how to separate my bias from just objectively analysing the push. It's completely broke my brain lol. Like I think the push is just a bit shit and uses one mid read of mine to justify continuing to sit on me for the entire game, but it doesn't look like anyone in the game actually agrees with me on this so is it just bias?

I've wanted to maybe look at associatives in the small hood but with El there's been little interaction (El was on the push onto Fire but El's been on p much every push this game lmao) and Ari's 575 feels like way too easy of a fold on what is a good point towards me being town so I think both of the sussy small hood gamers are likely to be with a scum!Fire in a scum!Fire world, tho based on gamestate I prefer my vote being on El right now.

I'll be honest Dann and Ari just seem like they're talking past each other based on a skim, but I've not had the energy to properly analyse any recent posting so take that with a grain of salt.

this post is so odd to me - time traveler energy feels so removed from everything around it

and solving afrayed knott or dannflor solves fireisredsir i don't really understand why there need be any order whatsoever

solving anyone person in the big hood solves them all

basically what happened was that i was just really distracted by the push. like the scummiest person in the big hood from my POV is pushing me for shit reasons i just like could not look away no matter how hard i tried.

tho i like dann right now a lot. the ari thing could've been opportunistic but the combative approach to gunning for you all of a sudden is so townie. dann is here making things happen and i love that.

in terms of the read on you i don't think i agree but also i have zero knowledge on the black meta so how can I? the thing that pings me on your slot is the double replacement with replacements being typically more scum indicative for a slot, but i don't think that's worth a push whatsoever and nothing you've said has pinged me as scummy so far so it would feel a bit unfair.

i agree we should just take a shot in the small hood, we've not got much time left and i don't really see a big hood member i'd be happy to consolidate on bar maybe fire.

pedit: ok big 1v1 happening but i'm hanging out with the gf now so I'll get to reading it at some point

eh trying to center game on 1v1 with me towny in that it’s like, would scum!dannflor think that’s likely enough to result in my being eliminated or! think it is risk free enough like that it couldn’t turn towards him but eh

like i said it doesn’t really have any town benefit either and it doesn’t seem that unlikely of an approach for scums to take to my replace in

[shiki]

when you could just like interact with me in a way that gives you a chance to see that i’m town if you’re town

ok do your thing and try to find scum

you're right that engaging you like this isn't really doing anything to change my mind

well because it isn’t meant to like saying ‘push me let’s 1v1’ has no possible town benefit if you’re town and gives me no chance to be town from your point of view because then it’s just purely - - -

mostly im just trying to get you take a concrete stance on me

i wanted to see if egging you on would like make you mad or get you to scum read me harder or something

would rather not play on the ‘let’s make shiki mad to determine alignment angle’ - a) i mostly just get frustrated with inability to communicate and that’s regardless of alignment

and all of the things i noted are my stance - still don’t really understand what your expectation of me is with regards to how i share my thoughts - like you can just ask me for what you want and I’ll try to provide (unless it’s still like Do You Think I’m A Scums Or Nah which is just not how i think about things - more likely than some in big hood I think but such a large gap between that and utmost confidence)

[shiki]

b) makes the game less fun

[shiki]

is your preference elements?

probably ydrasse as of this exact moment but not feeling great about that either

what edges ydrasse out for you over the other two?

aristeia has felt towny to me at times and elements approach has felt very far from scum!elements i am familiar with but need to look at more games when i get off work

[shiki]

it’s really not condemnation of ydrasse or anything and 24 hours is enough time for me to hopefully see if she’s town

[shiki]

+/ why tho?

[shiki]

like if you have doubts about my alignment the solution isn’t to just vote me

[shiki]

won’t help you sort me won’t help me sort you

[shiki]

won’t help you sort me won’t help me sort you

Don't need to do either if you're flipped

okay but i’m town and if you’re town miseliming in the big hood presents lose condition like from my pov it’s at least 1/5 to hit rather than 1/6 from yours and i’m still not confident enough and I don’t see why you’d reach for this first rather than trying to sort me out hat is the point

[shiki]

huh

Maybe I am just following Dann around

i mean, it’s noteworthy that you and dannflor are the majority of votes on most wagons but hard to weigh what it means

like could be scums taking advantage of generally inactive game but scums could also be happy letting the two of you do so because wrong about something vital

is noteworthy that you’re in opposite hoods tho when doing so

[shiki]

is your preference elements?

probably ydrasse as of this exact moment but not feeling great about that either

i am doing a very fast iso skim and this sentiment worries me when it’s paired with preference to elim in the small hood because well, duh i will have complaints but also i feel like you came into this game and set a lot of groundwork regarding the meta and spent a decent amount of time talking about elements and ari but your thoughts about me seem more sparse and i’m not really following the logical conclusion to how i’m a wolf i guess, there’s nothing that stands out as actually a wolf that you can say about me (which is the same critique i had of meuh - the way people are talking about my slot feels u productive because it feels like no one has a reason when they wolfread me, i guess? and sometimes you can feel when someone is a wolf but usually what follows is like … ways to build up the why and case it)

there isn’t that’s why i wasn’t pushing it just gave my thoughts regarding b cause dannflor asked was mostly hoping for more clarity from you posting and such

safer to eliminate in the small hood not super super confident about the big hood right now

why do you think fireisredsir is town?

[shiki]

mostly agree with your other reads in the big hood right now like a frayed knot and oopsiedaisy probably more likely town yeah

but dannflor/fireisredsir/meuh hard for me to have enough confidence

[shiki]

like if we eliminate in the small hood at worst it goes to final 3 which i get is super frustrating for you if you’re town to possibly be eliminated because of where the scums placed you and then to have to trust in whichever towns are alive

but should only really be eliminating in big hood if super confident because downside so big

[shiki]

oh yeah meuh felt towny too imo when i was interacting with her

is it just dannflor then?

[shiki]

oh yeah meuh felt towny too imo when i was interacting with her

is it just dannflor then?

assuming i am town et cetera (i am)

[shiki]

What is this bug downside?

if wrong then wrong again can end up in 1/3, 1/2 situation which is pretty unfavorable which cannot happen when eliminating in small hood

[shiki]

i don’t know! maybe!
like logically if i have ruled everyone else out than yes but i don’t feel confident saying yes

hmhmhm yeah can get myself here but then dunno if worth

[shiki]

What is this bug downside?

if wrong then wrong again can end up in 1/3, 1/2 situation which is pretty unfavorable which cannot happen when eliminating in small hood

What's better 1/3 1/2 or 2/5?

? impossible to get to a 2/5 because scums can’t be in same hood

[shiki]

What is this bug downside?

if wrong then wrong again can end up in 1/3, 1/2 situation which is pretty unfavorable which cannot happen when eliminating in small hood

What's better 1/3 1/2 or 2/5?

? impossible to get to a 2/5 because scums can’t be in same hood

In the context of this game yes, but in general which is better?

mathematically it’s the 1/2, 1/3 is better because 50% on first elimination better than 40% in 2/5

[shiki]

what? no it doesn’t it guarantees a final 3 and! it isn’t true brute forcing we aren’t doing so with no information can still make an educated guess

why ydrasse more likely a scums than aristeia to you now?

[shiki]

like shooting in big group only good if confident and i really cannot imagine town!youpossibly being confident that i am a scums here, so its like …….

[shiki]

A mislim is a mislim regardless of group

right but less likely to be a mislim in small group and less downside to missing (less upside as well thus the if confident then shoot in big group but you’re currently voting me so no faith there and it’s hard for me to imagine town you having faith in that either like i said)

[shiki]

like shooting in big group only good if confident and i really cannot imagine town!youpossibly being confident that i am a scums here, so its like …….

elaborate?

if elements said she was super super confident i was a scums here and voting me because of that rather than because of existing pressure i’d say it was very likely she was a scums don’t see how town her would have come to that view and seems so inconsistent with previous pushes this game

[shiki]

The "less downside" argument isn't convincing
It's entirely based on probability which is not how to play this game and a final 3 with one day of interactions to look at is significantly worse than a 1/3 + 1/2

no it isn’t don’t think cut to final day is worse in anyway definitely better than 1/2, 1/3 and! it’s actually not an easy position for the scums to play and!!! most importantly if we hit in the small hood today we still have all the Muslims for big hood and from your point of view that is 50/50 you literally need to solve 1 slot if i were in your position it’s just i am town therefore one of them solve and one of us gets to play tomorrow as innocent child tada

[shiki]

*mislims

sorry

autocorrect

[shiki]

no it isn’t don’t think cut to final day is worse in anyway definitely better than 1/2, 1/3 and! it’s actually not an easy position for the scums to play and!!! most importantly if we hit in the small hood today we still have all the Muslims for big hood and from your point of view that is 50/50 you literally need to solve 1 slot if i were in your position it’s just i am town therefore one of them solve and one of us gets to play tomorrow as innocent child tada

except I have 7 slots I need to sovlve

sure but 1,2 1,5 not 1,7

[shiki]

wait how 7 and not 8

[shiki]

feels like shiki and daisy don't know what their reads are for the big hood so are going for the "small hood is 1/3 that's better odds" and not "should probbably look more into the big hood and maybe that will help"

yes this is shade

this is shade that also implies were town lol since can’t be unsure of reads and thus hedging is were scums

[shiki]

wait how 7 and not 8

same reason it's 1 and not 2 for me in my hood

? there are 8 non-you players in the game

[shiki]

feels like shiki and daisy don't know what their reads are for the big hood so are going for the "small hood is 1/3 that's better odds" and not "should probbably look more into the big hood and maybe that will help"

yes this is shade

this is shade that also implies were town lol since can’t be unsure of reads and thus hedging is were scums

also am trying to look more into big hood? have been trying to interact with most players i am unsure of there??

[shiki]

wait how 7 and not 8

same reason it's 1 and not 2 for me in my hood

? there are 8 non-you players in the game

and if I solve Ari Ydra becomes solved for me so I don't need to solve Ydra

hmmmm by that logic only need to solve two players (scumteam)

[shiki]

feels like shiki and daisy don't know what their reads are for the big hood so are going for the "small hood is 1/3 that's better odds" and not "should probbably look more into the big hood and maybe that will help"

yes this is shade

this is shade that also implies were town lol since can’t be unsure of reads and thus hedging is were scums

or a way to steer the game away from autoloss for the reds

do you really think this is what i’ve been doing? like i obviously know i get pressured simply for existing early in games (or early in my presence in games) and if i was afraid of being eliminated myself i could have simply spent the 24 hours “not caught up” and not been eliminated if i were scums

like this feels like you’re just saying things that could potentially be applied to me in a vacuum but don’t actually make sense based on my play here

[shiki]

you only need to solve 1 player

the scum in the big hood

true

[shiki]

from your point of view that is 50/50 you literally need to solve 1 slot if i were in your position it’s just i am town therefore one of them solve and one of us gets to play tomorrow as innocent child tada

You literally said I only needed to solve 1 player!
this is not a game advancing conversation

sigh you do for the small hood one person you’re 100% confident in solves hood

[shiki]

okay and how is solving the big hood going? do you really believe that i am more likely to be a scums than either ydrasse or aristeia right now?

[shiki]

okay and how is solving the big hood going? do you really believe that i am more likely to be a scums than either ydrasse or aristeia right now?

@elements

sorry phone posting

[shiki]

okay and how is solving the big hood going? do you really believe that i am more likely to be a scums than either ydrasse or aristeia right now?

voting you could just win the game for me
voting Ari/Ydra could get me insta night killed

voting me can’t win the game tho and i am asking the likelihood of that to you

since at base level aristeia/ydrasse is 50/50 to you and any weight away from one adds to the other

so do you really think i’m 60+% to be mafia right now

[shiki]

and getting nightkilled is fine and good?

[shiki]

and getting nightkilled is fine and good?

like solve your hood get nightkilled is super beneficial don’t understand

[shiki]

do you really think this is what i’ve been doing?

idk, it's a possibility especially given how much better I think it is to vote in the big group day 1

like i obviously know i get pressured simply for existing early in games (or early in my presence in games) and if i was afraid of being eliminated myself i could have simply spent the 24 hours “not caught up” and not been eliminated if i were scums

the latest event to happen before you replaced in was Dann voting your slot. You could easily have wanted to get something going on your slot to seem towny i.e. a catchup rather than sit and do nothing and risk people joining the wagon
I don't know how your mind works so I can't comment on if you were afraid of elimination, but you seem pretty afraid of it now

and i mean, i do not want to be eliminated but trying to say that is alignment indicative is pretty ?.?

[shiki]

so do you really think i’m 60+% to be mafia right now

I don't think Dann, Daisy, Knott or Fire are red
So to me you or meuh and ari or Ydra are the same

?? how could you possibly be 100% sure that all of those slots are town?

like what from fireisredsir or dannflor or even a frayed knot says definitely town? like maybe meta stuff with oops ordaisy you could in theory be that confident but the others?

[shiki]

i’m just rusty and haven’t had any chance to focus on your slot as of yet

am trying to convince elements not to vote me and to sort elements at the same time

am much more sure of my alignment than anyone else’s so why wouldn’t i

[shiki]

anyway i’m town please just talk to me i will be aroundish on and off for a while

[shiki]

How is your sorting of me going?

having trouble understanding your approach but not sure if scum indicative based on gamestate

[shiki]

i can see a world where this is town shiki, i think, the talking about how it’s town and reinforcing itself as town is familiar

you seeing this and others not also familiar but would as either alignment probably

idk how i’m supposed to show people otherwise

like people just voting for me and not interacting with me, shrug

[shiki]

doubly frustrating in meuh’s case because i think meuh should in theory be able to sort me through interaction to some extent and this just feels like

like your approach to me specifically does not match previous games which were altogether different situations thus!! scum

[shiki]

i can see a world where this is town shiki, i think, the talking about how it’s town and reinforcing itself as town is familiar

you seeing this and others not also familiar but would as either alignment probably

idk how i’m supposed to show people otherwise

like people just voting for me and not interacting with me, shrug

i think you are keenly aware of how you play as town to the point you could recreate it as wolf now but :[ idk i think that if you are town people want more… concrete stuff i guess a yes/no to people even though i Get It

sure given this why i’m trying to ask

how do i show people

and also trying to ask people to give me a chance to show

[shiki]

like if people just want readslist or whatever i can try even though its not how i function generally - here it is easier to way due to nature of game so can try

[shiki]

i’m not sure it’s hard to explain because i’m just guessing but i think it’s like, direct questions of why someone said or did this or that and then more direct statements of your opinions on slots / alignment and from there further deciphering

i guess to me the how posts constructed/impetus for making them sort of things more likely to lead to finding scums - at least for low percentage me

like that one oopsiedaisy post still pretty hmm to me when i try to reverse engineer

[shiki]

i can see a world where this is town shiki

I'm getting very "why is Elements going this I don't understand the point" vibes from shiki

wdym?

It's hard to explain
Mine and Shiki's interaction felt very much that I was in control and Shiki didn't know what I was trying to get at or do

okay i don’t really know what you were trying to get at or do just pushing me for the sake of it it felt like not like you thought i was super likely to be a scums because i don’t understand how you would have reached that conclusion

i said as much multiple times and sure you were in control in terms of being the one forcing the interaction you voted me and such

but uh, why does that make me a scums??

[shiki]

like if people just want readslist or whatever i can try even though its not how i function generally - here it is easier to way due to nature of game so can try

i think it’d be something like

shiki
afrayed knott
oopsiedaisy
fireisredsir
meuh
dannflor

aristeia
ydrasse/elements

right now

but doesn’t feel right ya know

and something weird about game feels like most of absence is town maybe

[shiki]

doubly frustrating in meuh’s case because i think meuh should in theory be able to sort me through interaction to some extent and this just feels like

like your approach to me specifically does not match previous games which were altogether different situations thus!! scum

Your approach to me specifically is relevant because it's something I naturally gravitate towards, and since every game I've played with you is well, a game I was also in, it's something I'm more informed on, you know? I feel as though your opinion of me is something more meaningful for me to get something out of because of this
I'm sorry if you're town and in this position, we can interact if you want I have some time

sure i get it i also pay attention to approach to myself over others I just don’t see why you’d just assume this meant i was a scums instead of trying to make me flesh out more of a read on you

like there were a lot of things for me to pay attention to in short period of time and things didn’t super stand out from you outside of the things i commented on

like i liked your response to being voted earlier and little else

[shiki]

VOTE: shiki
E-1

this is e-2 btw

I can count

there was a votecount in the post above it when i saw it so not really working as reaction test either

[shiki]

but uh, why does that make me a scums??

I never said it did

sigh but you’re voting me so it’s implied

[shiki]

tried to catch up but brain feels fuzzy and i didn't get a lot out of it ill have to reread again later

dann's thing about me having a linguistic tell is occupying more of my brain than this game is rn which is not productive at all but im so curious

shiki feels like town on a skim but i was super snowed by it from spec one time so im a little wary

doubt the things you were snowed by are particularly similar to things in this game (assuming you are referring to the medeia game)

but dannflor’s linguistic tell thing also occupying space in my mind because i often look for similar patterns when functioning at a high percentage

also if dannflor’s a scums i think the linguistic tell thing is likely something he does in fact look for in your posting when he’s town seems unlikely to be wholly invented to me

[shiki]

but im trying to give shiki space right now because im just going to continue conf biasing myself into this read and if town i probably have the highest chance of seeing it by watching it interact with others, so that's probably the last piece I'll reiterate about Black

pronouns ebwop

she is also fine mostly wish not to have a body but since i do et cetera et cetera

[shiki]

doubt the things you were snowed by are particularly similar to things in this game (assuming you are referring to the medeia game)

no there was something specific where i saw it here and thought "ok town" but then remembered and had to revise that reaction

it's hard to put a finger on but it's a certain energy behind your posts that shows up sometimes and looks towny to me but apparently is replicable

like ydrasse said earlier i think most if not all things are replicable but i’m not a scums in every game and then it just comes down to whether i would and why i’m making the posts that i'm making but then it’s probably hard to weigh that sort of thing in this situation because being pushed and i’m not so good at seeing where i want to go as town

idk but whatever said town! was right so safe to go with that here

[shiki]

maybe ari is town tbh

interesting since i was thinking maybe the opposite recently

not a lot of reason for scum!ydrasse to share hedged townread of me - like because would as town not particularly strong when could just not positioning wise

[shiki]

still need to look at elements games to get better thought there as my game with scum!elements was extremely far from this one but a long time ago dunno if representative

[shiki]

will do so shortly on my way home now

[shiki]

still need to look at elements games to get better thought there as my game with scum!elements was extremely far from this one but a long time ago dunno if representative

Which game was it?

isis’s gacha game

[shiki]

viewtopic.php?t=83059

[shiki]

not a lot of reason for scum!ydrasse to share hedged townread of me - like because would as town not particularly strong when could just not positioning wise

possibly also applies to fireisredsir?

it's like, if elements/dannflor are town then mafia would probably think they had to push this over themselves to get it to go (which is maybe meuh? or maybe scums would just be hoping really hard they could just watch and time would do the work for them? or mayyybe scums have been absent? hm) and in theory scums would very much want it to go because miselim in big neighbourhood gets rid of me etc

so like folks with an opportunity to do so who would also be heavily incentivized to do so as scums not doing so is somewhat towny yeah?

[shiki]

not a lot of reason for scum!ydrasse to share hedged townread of me - like because would as town not particularly strong when could just not positioning wise

possibly also applies to fireisredsir?

it's like, if elements/dannflor are town then mafia would probably think they had to push this over themselves to get it to go (which is maybe meuh? or maybe scums would just be hoping really hard they could just watch and time would do the work for them? or mayyybe scums have been absent? hm) and in theory scums would very much want it to go because miselim in big neighbourhood gets rid of me etc

so like folks with an opportunity to do so who would also be heavily incentivized to do so as scums not doing so is somewhat towny yeah?

and it's like, really really easy to write defensible reasons for pushing me they both would easily be able to pull from greatest hits

so angle for them as scum would just be that they're scums waiting and willing to jump on thus the hedging but not doing so yet for towncred

which maybe? like they aren't really giving direction asking for help pushing elsewhere so possible

[shiki]

okay my scum!elements sample definitely non-representative based on recent scumgames

though approach definitely feels more like, lived in, here than in those games at brief glance

like committed to the bit interactions have more momentum and such

[shiki]

or mayyybe scums have been absent?

how likely this? just complete hands off whole day more or less

it's tough to see i guess because none of the small group would go small group and send afrayed knott big group probably?

so afrayed knott kinda by split town?

like hard to see the plan being afrayed knott just winning by surviving for any of the small groupers

and everyone been hands off while dannflor/elements push more or less everyone at some point or another so none of scums providing any movement whatsoever somewhat unlikely because risky to not push back on

so maybe that's what aristeia was doing re:dannflor? possibly? or scums not scared because one or both of those providing all of the pressure are a scums, also possible

[shiki]

wait actually!!!!

nah it's so hard for me to see most of you believing that a scumteam of jupiter/aristeia or jupiter/ydrasse or jupiter/elements

sent jupiter to the large neighbourhood

[shiki]

@dannflor @elements @meuh

like do you really believe that's what happened here? and if so like, ...why?

and if not then hey let's actually find the scums if you're town yeah?

[shiki]

like what would scum plan have been? (and if you do think it possible then should apply same plan to afrayed knott probably and look to see if any evidence of anyone enacting it since i assume it would be very similar)

[shiki]

wait actually!!!!

nah it's so hard for me to see most of you believing that a scumteam of jupiter/aristeia or jupiter/ydrasse or jupiter/elements

sent jupiter to the large neighbourhood

It's hard for you to see your slot being put in the big hood if you were red?
Forgive me for thinking you might be a tad biased on that one

of course i am biased i am asking

what do you think scum plan would have been there? like it seems so strange to me that you think a very good scum player like aristeia or ydrasse would have sent jupiter to the big neighbourhood

[shiki]

c'mon obviously aristeia or ydrasse would have some semblance of a plan

like maybe you wouldn't if you're the scums? i don't know really but they surely would have one beyond 'press random buttons'

[shiki]

idk there is some aristeia/afrayed knott equity and maybe your 'elim in the big neighbourhood' stance could in theory be because of afrayed knott partner and positioning around that but idk would still be kinda hm

like definitely not a first thought sort of approach

[shiki]

c'mon obviously aristeia or ydrasse would have some semblance of a plan

like maybe you wouldn't if you're the scums? i don't know really but they surely would have one beyond 'press random buttons'

right from your point of view you're not the scums

so why would aristeia or ydrasse have sent jupiter to the big neighbourhood? and did you see any evidence of them playing around that fact? have either of those players interactions with me felt partnered to you?

like you're still here just pushing me and seemingly trying to refute the counterpoints i make without actually analyzing anything

[shiki]

i see shiki trying to convince elements not to vote shiki

i don't really see shiki trying to sort elements

I think this is still true

it's both

[shiki]

you're seemingly more likely scum to me the more you just close your eyes and refuse to look at things

[shiki]

like there are towny things i have pointed out but that to me like i don't get it

like you won't even consider it and there's no way that you're so sure you're right that it's not worth looking at

[shiki]

like why would town you ever be that confident in this situation that you won't even think about the worlds and the fact that they simply do not make any sense

[shiki]

is it just unwillingness? are you generally unwilling to consider things presented by players you scumread?

[shiki]

You've been in the game 24 hours and have the second most posts yet off the top of my head I can think of any stances you've taken

okay what does that matter? do you think town!me generally would take a stance you would remember? how do you think i am currently viewing dannflor's slot? or aristeia's? or ydrasses? or yours? or afrayed knotts? like your unwillingness to think about my thoughts regarding other players being a reason i am a scums to you is ???????

[shiki]

like you can't argue i haven't given any thoughts on other players? so your argument is simply that you can't think of them off the top of your head? which sure i guess cannot refute that regardless

but why does that make me a scums exactly?

[shiki]

I am considering things
I'm just not saying what they are because I think your continuing to defend yourself will probably be more telling

if you're town the scums just want the game to stay as it is so they can say they have to hammer because of time or whatever

[shiki]

I am considering things
I'm just not saying what they are because I think your continuing to defend yourself will probably be more telling

if you're town the scums just want the game to stay as it is so they can say they have to hammer because of time or whatever

which i get i should also be presently better option pushing where i want right now i'm just struggling to figure out where that is which i get is on me

[shiki]

Or you're red and your partner doesn't want to defend you because that would be too telling so they're just hoping you can talk your way out of this

okay but once again why would this have been the split if i were red? like have you thought about that at all? or are you just not going to?

[shiki]

also if i were red i simply would not be in this position but you're just going to ignore that because i am the one saying it even though i feel like most players in the game should be able to look at my approach here and say, yeah

[shiki]

Like I'm sorry but we have 43 pages of posts here, information that was available before any of us made any posts being the key factor here sounds like the wrong approach

okay like elements said i have a lot of posts what is the key factor from those posts you're going off of here? simply that my approach to you wasn't particularly nuanced? feel like i have a lot of posts for that to be the only basis of your read of me?

[shiki]

I feel kinda lost at this point cause some of your posts are giving me pause but then I try to find another compelling idea for scum in the big hood and none sound right

and in the small hood?

[shiki]

also if i were red i simply would not be in this position

Why?

because it'd be very easy for me to avoid and i am very well aware of the fact that ways in which i often post and how i react to certain things is often scumread and there was limited time on the day for me to course correct

[shiki]

Do you always get this defensive when you're pushed day 1?

often much more defensive can ask meuh to verify if you'd like or look at my games

[shiki]

Do you always get this defensive when you're pushed day 1?

often much more defensive can ask meuh to verify if you'd like or look at my games

accounts i have somewhat(?) recent games on (the first three of which i unfortunately had to be replaced out of at the same time) if interested

yekaterina, ina-marija, elle (1L), demona, inutile, medeia

[shiki]

I don't wanna shoot in it

generally confused by this stance

[shiki]

I don't wanna shoot in it

generally confused by this stance

Shooting in big hood seems correct
I like reducing the size of the hood and then we have 2 small hoods to find scum in

pretty sure it's only correct if very confident that target is a scums but maybe i am simply missing something

[shiki]

Do you always get this defensive when you're pushed day 1?

often much more defensive can ask meuh to verify if you'd like or look at my games

accounts i have somewhat(?) recent games on (the first three of which i unfortunately had to be replaced out of at the same time) if interested

yekaterina, ina-marija, elle (1L), demona, inutile, medeia

*ina marija

[shiki]

Small hood seems like sorting it gives us a red flip earlier but less info later, big hood seems like it delays it but sets us up better long-term, but I'm not like an expert on these sorts of things

it limits lose conditions and gives less room for scums to set up endgames and such

like 1/4, 1/3 is not easier than 1/2, 1/5

and everyone here competent enough to play around the associatives and such anyway

like sure it has win the game immediately upside and if i was confident in someone in the big group being a scums right now i'd be all for hero shoot and maybe i should just put full energy into finding that tho i know myself and often the deeper i dig the less confident i become not more

[shiki]

could someone in the small neighbourhood please detail elements 'fake scumslip' for me pretty please

[shiki]

could someone in the small neighbourhood please detail elements 'fake scumslip' for me pretty please

Small hood is so dead, should've let you convince to join the big one

Ebwop

thankyou

[shiki]

could someone in the small neighbourhood please detail elements 'fake scumslip' for me pretty please

it's just like "should have been in this hood" or something, don't wanna paraphrase more

there's some amount of like 'the small neighbourhood didn't appreciate my post' so i'm talking about it in the mainthread but hard to gauge what that means so was wondering if it was like,

a big effort thing or nah

mostly

[shiki]

i think its actually like a pretty good strategy to say we're gonna lim in the big hood and run a bunch of people up and then pivot at the last moment and resolve the small hood instead

that gives us like max info of small hood maf potentially defending their partners from a legitimate threat

tried looking into players doing this and the general problem is lack of reaction from ydrasse/aristeia to any threats and elements always one of the players threatening

[shiki]

like maybe aristeia view of dannflor is a response? or aristeia interaction with afrayed knott? or ydrasse interaction with meuh?

[shiki]

like how does that help you untangle the big hood

max shots to do so plus i'm town

so i would need to find exactly one other town and game solved

[shiki]

like how does that help you untangle the big hood

max shots to do so plus i'm town

so i would need to find exactly one other town and game solved

wait maybe two sorry i dumb

[shiki]

the issue with flipping el is it gives us not much good info at all, i just scumread the slot more cause i feel like i'd have seen something townie from el's slot by now but it's mostly just us disagreeing on everything

does it not? feel like can definitely analyze pushed wagons/interactions regarding

like if you're town that's one, i do not think anyone is going to argue that i'm partnered with elements and we're just having a go for unknown reasons, so two, and then zero in on rest from your pov

[shiki]

oh i'm certainly not an info-flipper that just felt so ??? to me because those pushes seem very sortable to me

[shiki]

mmm how right does this feel

[shiki]

was this the reaction you wanted shiki

reaction to what? it's like, i mostly want everyone to give me the like 'why dannflor town' rundown because i'm such a scaredycat about big hood vote here

[shiki]

also i think elements' accusation towards me not providing that is funny but i will chalk it up to lack of experience with me

I got nothing on ya meta-wise

i think that... people who know me should more readily recognize this as my town solving process than not.

i will readily say this exact same thing and then when you say it i'm like, hmmmm, should we tho?

[shiki]

also i think elements' accusation towards me not providing that is funny but i will chalk it up to lack of experience with me

I got nothing on ya meta-wise

i think that... people who know me should more readily recognize this as my town solving process than not.

i will readily say this exact same thing and then when you say it i'm like, hmmmm, should we tho?

(because i am Very Bad at this game)

[shiki]

i, want to believe in ydrasse

[shiki]

just such a limited benefit to range of stances

like oopsiedaisy defense does not really feel +partner because then stance towards me doesn't make any sense especially! since oopsiedaisy not pushing me either and both off wagon there with opportunity to push it over

[shiki]

also there was wagon deflating interaction with meuh which like,

would scum!ydrasse just be going out of way to have associatives with everyone in big group then?

there was pretty cheeky early game interaction with dannflor as well i guess

just seems unlikely yeah

[shiki]

uhh,

well not entirely sure how much sense afrayed knott’s vote/stance makes for the proposed elements/afrayed knott scumteam


need comp to respond to 1286 - will be around in ~1 hour then on and off through deadline

[shiki]

I am caught on 800 where she question’s ScumDann putting Ari into the small hood based on Ari being difficult to end game, but surely that would be a possible move by anyone who knows Ari’s play, including Shiki?

well, uh, i could not have put aristeia into the small neighbourhood because a) i am town but also b) i wasn't here when the neighbourhood's were chosen regardless? (if i were i think scums likely would have put me in the large group nonetheless? and assumed they'd probably have to nightkill me but i think placing me in the small neighbourhood puts different constraints on the scumteam than placing town!aristeia would {town generally more likely to take care of aristeia issue for the scumteam, aristeia more likely to actually solve the game so want built in clock, do not want to have to commit to nightkilling aristeia without knowing how she'll be read by the game})

and how i was thinking about it scum!aristeia would generally only be in the small neighbourhood if partnered with another strong scum player and dannflor's thoughts regarding what scum would do with the split seemed kinda hmm to me like they were distancing from the actual split and not really thinking about what scum would do with the like 'harder to play scum from the small neighbourhood thing' - like sure maybe in some ways but the scum player trying to endgame 80% of the time maybe more is the one in the big neighbourhood i assume so it seemed odd to me

[shiki]

idk why frayed is suddenly pushing shiki then, we need to consolodate at this point rather than continuing to try and find more options.

there is built in fallback to elements in afrayed knott's post that feels kinda unlikely for a partner to me

[shiki]

There is then a period of interaction with Dann based off her feeling that Dann was avoiding Black, or do I have that wrong? No, I’m sure that’s the hang up. For me it’s a null thing, Dann blanks a lot of people in games, well that’s my experience of him, he even has blanked me. Then the vote on Dann. Dann is pushing her to do something and asks her to place a vote on him and she does?? On the face of it, Dann’s response is how I would now expect Dann to react, by explaining his thoughts on why he pushed her, but that is not alignment indicative for me, well not yet. Her response with the vote seems towny to be frank, I would probably do the same. But then 863 seems mute and diluted from the feeling of confidence in her earlier interactions.

yes, you have that wrong - dannflor felt that black was avoiding the dannflor/aristeia interaction in a scum indicative way and felt that that outweighed all previous thoughts he had regarding the slot

[shiki]

I don’t get 885 , ok it’s a naked vote from El, but ?

but i am town and it is a vote on me without any sort of interaction

like i force interaction in that sort of scenario because i like to give benefit of doubt to others and if they are town i need them to see that i am town and if they're not town maybe i see that through followup

like i am sortable and voting me generally accomplishes little in terms of sorting me whereas interacting with me might

[shiki]

But seriously a lot of time wasted by the pair of them, and it sort of drives me to consider an El/Shiki scum team.

i don't mind lifting the veil a bit here to say that when i am playing this way it is as much if not more for the other towns to solve the game than it is for me to

the reason so much of my interaction was with elements and not other players in that period of time was because a) elements was pushing me and b) elements was interacting with me

and to me that sort of thing, in theory, should make both of us more readable to everyone else - like it's more content for the players who are much smarter than i am to look at and figure out intentions

like do i think i am super capable of solving elements alignment through extended interaction? not particularly

but do i think others are super capable of solving elements alignment through extended interaction with me if they assume i am town? mhm i do

[shiki]

if they assume i am town? mhm i do

and do i think it makes it much easier for other players to see that i am town if i am having these interactions in order to base the rest of their thoughts on the assumption that i am town? mhm i do think that as well

[shiki]

I am caught on 800 where she question’s ScumDann putting Ari into the small hood based on Ari being difficult to end game, but surely that would be a possible move by anyone who knows Ari’s play, including Shiki?

well, uh, i could not have put aristeia into the small neighbourhood because a) i am town but also b) i wasn't here when the neighbourhood's were chosen regardless? (if i were i think scums likely would have put me in the large group nonetheless? and assumed they'd probably have to nightkill me but i think placing me in the small neighbourhood puts different constraints on the scumteam than placing town!aristeia would {town generally more likely to take care of aristeia issue for the scumteam, aristeia more likely to actually solve the game so want built in clock, do not want to have to commit to nightkilling aristeia without knowing how she'll be read by the game})

and how i was thinking about it scum!aristeia would generally only be in the small neighbourhood if partnered with another strong scum player and dannflor's thoughts regarding what scum would do with the split seemed kinda hmm to me like they were distancing from the actual split and not really thinking about what scum would do with the like 'harder to play scum from the small neighbourhood thing' - like sure maybe in some ways but the scum player trying to endgame 80% of the time maybe more is the one in the big neighbourhood i assume so it seemed odd to me

Bu thats not what you are doing in 800. you are hypothesizing and then questioning the logic, are you not? Thus my question. taking into account your thought process. So I am just pointing out that had you been scum and sorted the neighbourhoods, would you have not also done what you hypothesize Dann did?

yes that's why i hypothesized dannflor or fireisredsir or meuh might have chosen those neighbourhoods - due to their familiarity with ydrasse and aristeia

[shiki]

Yeah I read back, sorry been tired today and screwed up my thought process. But I still feel your reaction in 863 is diluted and lacks your earlier confidence.

because when i am simply noting the things that are potentially noteworthy to me it is easy to be confident and say 'oh this seems potentially meaningful!' but then when i try to compile all of those things into one simple worldview (like dannflor and elements wanted me to have some sort of therefore 'dannflor is a scums!' stance or something) it feels a possibility not any sort of concrete thing i can be confident in - that's simply not how i think about the game at any given time

[shiki]

@ydrasse

do you think elements is a scums tho?

[shiki]

is there any other reason daisy is a wolf?

as much reason as anyone else

fmpov a wolf is voting daisy so.

is Ari also voting daisy atm?

yea

[shiki]

not really interested in killing daisy

do you townread ydrasse? or daisy? or?

[shiki]

not really interested in killing daisy

do you townread ydrasse? or daisy? or?

daisy more than ydrasse

wanna start an ydra push with me?

do you it’s just exactly ydrasse/oopsiedaisy then? or ydrasse partner super safe? or?

[shiki]

i want to vote elements but i am afraid of being wrong and having to fight tomorrow

part of me thinks it’s aristeia but my intuition with regards to her usually good and somethings seemed towny to me earlier

[shiki]

maybe i have a diseased brain but im back to ari/meuh somehow

i don’t hate this because i definitely have a diseased brain and i was like

hmm

maybe aristeia/dannflor

[shiki]

i think el hopping on most pushes in a game to force wagons is NAI. it's the fake reads thing that's getting me.

somewhere in the meta there was definitely a game where alot of the early game discourse revolved around elements making things up and then using posts that happened after the making things up as justification for doing so

but, uh, i can’t remember what element’s alignment was that game

[shiki]

VOTE: meuh

pedit: hm VOTE: aristeia

meuh vote better tho for ~reasons

[shiki]

though playing this game probably a bad idea here

[shiki]

UNVOTE:

i just can’t watch it close enough

[shiki]

VOTE: ari

okay I'll stop being stubborn

do you think meuh is bussing ari….?

pretty low risk though like

idk scumteam being absent and also not making wagon go over kinda eh

[shiki]

if you and elements are both voting meuh and the choice is between ari and meuh id rather vote ari

to be clear this was meant to be a line of logic not a statement of read preference

^

[shiki]

thus why the meuh vote better for information before

[shiki]

just can’t watch it close enough to prevent disaster

[shiki]

do u want me to self?

nah have numbers not to need

[shiki]

also have numbers to pivot(?)

[shiki]

do u want me to self?

nah have numbers not to need

Vote meuh

will aristeia?

[shiki]

we have numbers with ari

it’s meaningless tho because if you’re all willing then it’s not scums so just giving chance to distance for free or eliminate a town

[shiki]

i am waiting at a subway stop rn for my train lemme know what you want me to do

contribute literally anything you can

just keep killing in the small hood and dont let the lim go big hood

elements or ydrasse?

[shiki]

we have numbers with ari

it’s meaningless tho because if you’re all willing then it’s not scums so just giving chance to distance for free or eliminate a town

this is actively detrimental in this situation to post sorry

i give all three of you enough credit to be aware of it and don’t want disaster

[shiki]

VOTE: elements

[shiki]

we have numbers with ari

it’s meaningless tho because if you’re all willing then it’s not scums so just giving chance to distance for free or eliminate a town

this is actively detrimental in this situation to post sorry

i give all three of you enough credit to be aware of it and don’t want disaster

(but also yeah you’re probably right just not thinking things through - not giving rest of town enough credit etc)

[shiki]

hm

well

i suppose

[shiki]

i should probably do the thing yeah

[shiki]

also at some point you said that scum!you loves the opportunity to take control of 'dead games' or something so i wonder why town!you wouldn't thrive in such a situation just the same but maybe this game not applicable for ~reasons

[shiki]

to expand, i think it is more focused on looking good than actually getting alignment indicative content from knott

i also think 257 is kinda awkward and pockety?

for the knott part, it didn't seem off to me, i think he tries to reach out to people like that as town (usually giving them like, one chance) if she isn't confident that they're scum

the pocket on me probably worked though

it's not the reach out i have a problem with. there's specific ways that stuff is phrased within the post that feels a little over wrought from Ari and is reminiscent of posts i am drawn to make as scum because i know they will make me look good

like idk that town Ari actually feels like she needs to say "im sorry if this feels overwhelming"

like in general i just think the post is a bit over wrought and it could've been a couple paragraphs shorter and to the point and would've gotten the same amount across and the rest of it is for optics

and that is how i personally imagine town!ari would have written such a post

i might be wrong im not an Ari expert but that's what I'm feeling right now

I also believe that Elements doesn't put himself in a hood with Ari/ydra and I town read Ydrasse

idk to me it feels very much like a post i would write as town or... to a partner, yeah

idk still kinda stuck on this:

@Afrayed Knott How do you usually go about finding reads in mafia games?

First day for me it’s a mess unless something pings and doesn’t work out in my mind. Or doesn’t feel right. Then if I make it to D2, which has been a rarity for me, I look at any associations I might see or look at any solves that might start to appear. I’m fairly new to the game so it’s all still a learning process atm.

I guess what I'm asking for is when you read this thread and say you stare at it and its dead. what thoughts come to your mind about each of the players?

whats memorable? whats not? which post feels like scummy and which post feels townie to you?

you are in a hood of six, one of which is mafia, if you're town then which of the five others do you suspect the most? which of the five others do you think is unlikely to be mafia? why?

like this isnt a court of law, the things we say could be right or wrong but it doesnt matter so much as we're actually doing something because if no1 does anything then whats the point?

im sorry if this feels overwhelming but I'd appreciate it if you could spend some time on each player and just jot down whatever thoughts come to mind.

if you don't have the time for every player, you can do one per day and be done with all 8 before the deadline.

Subject: Micro 1087 | It's normal | It's over!

I don’t really know how to play mafia tbh

i don't really know how to play mafia either and i can relate to frustrations with being scumread if you're town here but noone is asking you to completely solve the game or anything ya know

like just pick a post or something that has happened in the game or whatever and talk about it, the possible intentions you see for those involved, how you are weighing the likelihoods of those intentions, et cetera

like multiple players have asked you about your feelings on your wagon and such and it's like,

did you feel meuh's e-1 vote on the initial wagon was truly accidental? that initial wagon was {chicagotypewriter, ceejayvinoya, pookythemagicalbear, meuh} at it's height and three of those players have returned to your wagon now and the fourth has stated a willingness to eliminate you, does that mean anything to you with regards to their possible alignments?, what possible explanations can you think of for why that wagon dissipated in the first place? skitter then inspired the reorganization of that wagon by asking you/meuh/chicagotypewriter about your willingnesses to vote eachother? did it feel like skitter might have had a sinister motivation for doing so to you? meuh and chicagotypewriter have both expressed doubts about one another's alignments but have also both seemed very comfortable on your wagon alongside eachother, does that seem potentially noteworthy to you? et cetera et cetera

like literally you can just pick anything at all from the game and share your thoughts on it give players a chance to see if you're town

like it just feels so so similar to me

[shiki]

and also contrast the first dozen or so posts here compared to afrayed knott's reaction to aristeia push

viewtopic.php?t=91754&user_select%5B%5D=37207

[shiki]

or really the downhill nature of multiple interactions in the town games to the interactions here

whereas here there's less pushback and also something about the questions is still !! to me especially since they seem largely absent in other games like the 'how do i go about sorting when one of you could be a scums tricking me' sort of thing

[shiki]

it's like; would have to be semi-planned from the go and still weird to me that aristeia and afrayed knott would send afrayed knott big group yeah and then pressure

but it is like, partner distance/bus setup and aristeia very aware of this kept saying the small neighbourhood doesn't matter et cetera et cetera was obviously on her mind

idk can someone else or even ideally someones else big magnifying those interactions for me check my work et cetera pretty please

[shiki]

and then aristeia pretty much forgets that she was ever pushing afrayed knott (outside of talking afrayed knott into voting her 626-631 ??)

which sure could simply say 'well scum!aristeia was simply pushing opportunistically and then dropped it because there wasn't enough support'

and but so then afrayed knott votes aristeia then corrects elements here shortly after elements voted aristeia:

E-2

(which is funny to me because afrayed knott then mistated e-2 on aristeia when it was e-1 on day two)

but then also just mostly abandons this thought? idk like it's possible afrayed knott simply became preoccupied by my presence and connecting me to elements rather than aristeia because of the interactions between us being more substantial but eh

[shiki]

probably should have approached by rereading the game rather than iso/dual iso based on how many times i've then had to go to full game for context and haven't even gotten to others yet