Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[Dannflor]

VOTE: t-bone

[Dannflor]

VOTE: davesaz

[Dannflor]

VOTE: cook

[Dannflor]

Dannflor is wolf.

vote me?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: usesPython

serious vote btw

[Dannflor]

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

[Dannflor]

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Bold of you to assume we play with intentionality

it doesn't have to be intentional

could be instinctual

[Dannflor]

i think black and gob are both town

vaguely like STD

i kinda like naerys' defense regardless of whether it is factually true or not

[Dannflor]

I very strongly dislike 74

I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy

it has the quality of an over defensive reaction while very intentionally trying to seem like they optically don't care

hence the ":shrug:" despite it definitely bothering them given the content of the post and them later slotting me as a "no-no zone read"

[Dannflor]

i also just find most of their posting to be posts for the sake of posting

i don't believe Python actually town reads ausuka in 117

I don't believe they actually scum read me tbh

and i think 121 is like exactly the type of post scum makes in the early game a lot to seem productive but town generally tends to have no interest in

[Dannflor]

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Bold of you to assume we play with intentionality

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Bold of you to assume we play with intentionality

it doesn't have to be intentional

could be instinctual

We just upped the gain on our vibemometer and posted the first thing that came up, if you wanna call that "wanting to be seen like we're doing something" then :shrug:

I just want to quote this fully because I think the end reaction by Python to my thinking aloud very early push on them is... like not a town reaction

i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me (especially considering they later lump me into a scum read pile) but rather is here to solely play defense and "win" this interaction we had

[Dannflor]

I very strongly dislike 74

I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy

it has the quality of an over defensive reaction while very intentionally trying to seem like they optically don't care

hence the ":shrug:" despite it definitely bothering them given the content of the post and them later slotting me as a "no-no zone read"

no-no zone isn't that scummy objectively, it's more that nothing is really happening and other people aren't really pinging us

dann-naerys in the no-no zone, who wants to join as the third

no no zone? wdym

they're maf

I'm sorry?

[Dannflor]

maybe I'm conf biasing but I further don't like that your response to me pushing on this is to try to reframe your reads/reactions as less strong than they are

[Dannflor]

i also just find most of their posting to be posts for the sake of posting

That's cause people are treating this game like a 14 day deadline while we're trying to focus up

i don't believe Python actually town reads ausuka in 117

we townread

I personally just found the 'trying to discredit' thing on a blank page 2 scumread to be sorta offputting

I don't really get the python scumreads, I think town often try to get the game started with sort of questionable early reads.

ok, why do you town read that, Python?

[Dannflor]

the first part is not anything that multiple other people in the game haven't picked up on

the second part of ausuka's post is not a very complicated take either

I'm not saying ausuka is scum but I'm not sure why you get town from that

[Dannflor]

Feel like scum would let it play out

Like it's a blitz game, first real wagons to pick up will be the ones there by deadline so hitting the breaks on our wagon is townie instead of the usual early scum reasonableness

idk i think the "reasonable" early game take is to town read you tbh

[Dannflor]

i don't feel Python cares about actually sorting me

You're not gonna get very in depth reads from us cause the deadline doesn't allow for it, we're very much playing this game in a "see something, shoot something" kinda manner

that isn't the issue

the issue is the kind of interaction i got

im not looking for an in depth read im bothered because you got defensive and then slotted me as scum without really trying to interact with me further despite clearly being very active and trying to get interactions in with people

[Dannflor]

i think black and gob are both town

vaguely like STD

i kinda like naerys' defense regardless of whether it is factually true or not

Why is gob town

uh i think he's going against the grain (which is not unusual) but it's not in the usual inflammatory/performative way that i usually see from scum!gob

he seems to be trying to figure things out and work with people

[Dannflor]

{usesPyrhon}
{Naerys}
{light_ganski, gob}
{Black}
{Dannflor}

P1.

VOTE: Dannflor

incorrect, stop, get off me

[Dannflor]

I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy

I don't generally care about defensiveness and don't really see python's reaction as scummy either.

If naerys had called it a "bad push" or something on page 2 I wouldn't care at all

The issue to me is that "discrediting" is a more complex idea where I don't really think the gamestate had developed enough for that to be a natural thought process.

it's not defensiveness by itself. a pretty general scum tell that I've had a lot of success using is outsized emotional reactions when the prompt doesn't match up. it doesn't really matter if it's defensiveness or sadness or anger, or what have you. the fact is i don't think my push matches up with python's reaction, which i think is unnatural

re: naerys

I would agree with you normally but I think later posts clarify that is basically what naerys was saying

I think naerys just uses awkward wording sometimes

[Dannflor]

I think naerys just uses awkward wording sometimes

Downside of not being native speaker

yeah i was gonna say this but didn't know for sure

[Dannflor]

like i don't think the complex thought process you are attributing to the word choice was actually supposed to be there, ausuka

[Dannflor]

pretty general scum tell that I've had a lot of success using is outsized emotional reactions when the prompt doesn't match up. it doesn't really matter if it's defensiveness or sadness or anger, or what have you. the fact is i don't think my push matches up with python's reaction, which i think is unnatural

also another element to it is python also leaning into trying to look unbothered by my read on them? which i would think if town and having a naturally defensive reaction would not feel the need to do

[Dannflor]

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Coincidentally, that’s my take on you.

I recall last time I thought this, I was right.

you are not good at reading me

[Dannflor]

gob is difficult too read and i've failed at it recently so i won't defend them overmuch if black thinks she sees something

but i think his tone/vibe is just noticeably different than recent scum performances that I've seen

[Dannflor]

I was responding to what I perceived to be you indirectly saying the push on Naerys was about her being defensive in a way that wasn't actually scummy.

i have said nothing about Python's push on naerys

[Dannflor]

idk i like it

it's out there

[Dannflor]

I think if you want to actually talk about way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game, this one from Python is actually scummy

The 'actually' here strongly implies it's a contrast to something

Given the topic of conversation before was pushing on naerys, and it could be characterised as 'way too strong/defensive reactions early in the game' that's how I read it

i am saying i don't think naerys' reaction was scummy but i think python's was

but i explained why i find naerys' NAI

i wasn't talking about Python's push on naerys

but maybe I misunderstood you somewhere

[Dannflor]

i think scum!ranger is less likely to open the game scum reading me

but i also will not be interacting with ranger for the rest of the game more than likely

[Dannflor]

anyway ausuka i hope you've got enough content to sink your teeth into now

[Dannflor]

I think I'm comfortable calling light ganski town

[Dannflor]

black what do you even see with regards to gob

[Dannflor]

can i ask you to give thoughts about any other slot in the game, black

[Dannflor]

Probably the most important thing to bring up, given it's the point you seem to feel most strongly about, is that I think the 'shrug' thing while feeling defensive is something I personally do all the time and does not come across to me as trying to come across as Not Defensive in a scummy way.

So, I understand why you believe that and I know you do that specific tic as both alignments. I do think your defensiveness presents itself differently as each alignment but that's neither here nor there.

But I want to clarify more on this specific point because I don't think I've done a very good job getting it across so far.

And

I think it is a tell that points towards scum a fairly large percentage of the time - definitely more than anything else I've seen happen in this game so far.

Another way to frame what I'm seeing is "scum caught for the wrong reasons." Basically, the person being accused is guilty, but they don't think that what they are accused of has

anything

to do with their guilt. So they push back in a way that's basically like... proving their accuser wrong? It's like, rather than trying to understand where the accuser is coming from, or sort the accuser based off the accusation, they approach the interaction like its something they can win - because they know they can win it since the accuser is definitely wrong! Town tends to approach these interactions differently, whereas even if they get defensive, they are either still trying to place themselves in another person's shoes and/or sort the person going after them.

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Bold of you to assume we play with intentionality

Python first replies with this. Which like, definitely fits the model of trying to disprove the argument being made against them. usesPython can't be wanting to be seen like they are doing something because they don't play with intentionality! Haha! Dannflor is wrong!

I respond by saying that I don't think it necessarily has to be intentional in 73.

We just upped the gain on our vibemometer and posted the first thing that came up, if you wanna call that "wanting to be seen like we're doing something" then :shrug:

Now Python replies with this. They reiterate that they were just vibing and posting in a stream of consciousness style - ergo, my argument has no basis. Again, not really what I was arguing. But anyway, this is two points in the interaction where Python is clearly approaching it trying to

win

the interaction. From personal experience, I have seen many many scum players respond to accusations thrown against them with the same tone of "well, that's not true and here's why and you're wrong," because that is a very comfortable way to score points. And when a townie makes an argument with a perceived factual fault, that is something scum sees as something that can be "won" against.

I understand some people can be defensive as town too. I understand that Python might even want to take issue with my base accusation even as town. But the reason I find this interaction so scummy is because at no point is Python looking to do anything other than win the interaction. After 71, when I clarify that my argument is not about intentionality, Python basically just doubles down, which doesn't make it seem like Python earnestly wants to engage or sort me. After this point, Python never really talks to me or has much to say about me at all except for when I call him out for not talking to me! They slot me as a scum read or scum lean or whatever Python wants to call it and leaves it at that. And I am doubtful that is a town reaction.

One of the reasons this pinged me so strongly - aside from the sheer amount of times I've seen this exact same tell before - is that Python literally made the same post in a recent scum game almost to the word.

Having zero clue who your vote is on sounds wild and I don't really believe that. I don't think python is that blase when it comes to the game

I mean we literally have a notes PT for exactly this kind of stuff, if I dropped the vote myself I'd probably remember it here but I didn't so :shrug:

Here is Python in Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween. Python was scum.

Black is accusing Python of being unbelievably blase for not knowing where their vote is. Python responds with a pretty similar post as the one they responded to me with. Python knows that they

actually

didn't remember the vote and they even have the fact of their usual Notes PT to back it up. The shrug is even there again which I KNOW is not alignment indicative by itself but I do think generally townies are more likely to get straight up indignant about accusations like this rather than try to make themselves seem unbothered. This may not apply to Ausuka.

For reference, I went to a recent town game of Python's and quoted the posts where they directly responded to someone voicing suspicion on Python:

Spoiler: Python Town Game

I know I know I read the newbie game play thingy, and RVS is a thing... buuuuuut Python was very bandwagony following votes, not just against me but others as well.

Yeah that's intentional, we don't actually care who gets wagoned this early on so we just jump on whatever wagons are happening to make number go up and let the people with actual opinions duke it out until we have something to work with

I feel like python is playing a

good

game. solid stances, some thread control, relaxed and witty. A good game, but considering how what happened to timmer is what happened with every other LHF probable townie in the game (afrayed knott seems legitimate, so does kitty, for instance), then that means the scum, at least one of them, is doing exactly what python is doing. there are no scummy people left, so we have to look at who looks towny but doesnt

feel

very towny at all.

We feel town as fuck, what planet did you just fall out of

-A

Small sample size blah blah - but hopefully the difference is obvious and illustrative of what I'm talking about

[Dannflor]

VOTE: usesPython

[Dannflor]

I'm a double voter

[Dannflor]

hard claim

[Dannflor]

why do you think I'm scum python

[Dannflor]

i feel like instead of responding by explaining your scum read of me or try to engage me on any other level you could engage me on

you went straight to the exact thing ive been talking about which is try to find a part of my post that you can prove wrong

[Dannflor]

you can just say you're making it up

[Dannflor]

it's pretty important for you to show me that you are town if you are town

[Dannflor]

we can swing an elim on you

i have been miseliminated as town exactly once in over 50 games on this website

[Dannflor]

Your tunnel on us feels like a scum tunnel

why

what differentiates it from a town tunnel to you

[Dannflor]

you're right this isn't helpful

[Dannflor]

i think we need to go read other people

[Dannflor]

it's not you it's me

[Dannflor]

python you've got react youtuber vibes

[Dannflor]

Like you see what we mean by it feeling like your goal is to find things to call us scum for instead of sorting us

this is my way of sorting you

[Dannflor]

python you've got react youtuber vibes

We invented react youtubing back in Weird Dreams Redux

i know i just finished reading your notes pt from that game

[Dannflor]

viewtopic.php?t=91370

oh i was reading this one actually

[Dannflor]

i guess there's two points right now that make me think i could be wrong on you right now

1. the town read on ausuka is on a surface level a tr on someone because they are tring you, and i think that's the kind of thing scum would avoid so blatantly early on
2. you have some self-admitted nervous energy as scum and i guess i would expect to see that coming through more now that there is some pressure on you

[Dannflor]

part of the reason i have been very repetitive with my painting you as scum is because i wanted to see if that nervous energy appeared but it is disappointingly not

[Dannflor]

VOTE: naerys

[Dannflor]

Kinda awk to take a 2 day v/la with a 2 day deadline

[Dannflor]

Dannflor what is your read on T-bone

This is semi prodge because it's early morning and I'm going back to sleep

Don’t really have one

I can try to come up with one in a bit

[Dannflor]

I think gob is town

[Dannflor]

Scum team might be ranger+light+python

wtf mindmeld with nairys

So why arent we voting python?

i am

Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type

why vote me instead of naerys who is top wagon?

Strange how gob seems to TR Naerys but then suggests her as an alternative to voting him instead of suggesting a SR of his.

Scum team might be ranger+light+python

wtf mindmeld with nairys

So why arent we voting python?

i am

Nice. Ive found you towny btw idk why others havent. no offense but i think sometimes you can be lhf type

why vote me instead of naerys who is top wagon?

Strange how gob seems to TR Naerys but then suggests her as an alternative to voting him instead of suggesting a SR of his.

Thank you for reminding me of the contradiction

VOTE: Gob

I am pretty sure one of the votes that felt the need to justify their vote on a slot like gob’s with an “inconsistency” like this is scum

Initial feeling is that drew is just lazy town and davesaz is scum

[Dannflor]

VOTE: davesaz

Would happily kill davesaz based off that vote alone and probably feel better about that than anything else in this game thus far

[Dannflor]

Ausuka will you join me on dave?

[Dannflor]

Oh I didn’t read a page

[Dannflor]

Thinking

[Dannflor]

VOTE: tbone

[Dannflor]

I am comfortable sheeping ausuka who I have developed a somewhat comfortable town read on

Tbone I have had basically a nothing read on which means he could easily flip scum

Plus i think a tbone scum flip spews python town which would be pretty helpful

[Dannflor]

I feel somewhat better about python overall after we engaged

No firm reason why I just felt like pressuring them one on one like that would have resulted in something scummy and it didn’t

Gob and to a lesser extent naerys i dont really feel great about their wagons

[Dannflor]

Can you elaborate on what you think spews?
Thoughts on what a town flip might mean?

I think tbone clearly was encouraging me vs Python in a way that makes me think we were TvT in a scum!tbone world

Town thone doesn’t really tell us anything but I’d rather a miselim on tbone than a miselim on the other viable wagons right now if that makes sense

[Dannflor]

Ranger vote tbone

[Dannflor]

VOTE: davesaz
Would happily kill davesaz based off that vote alone and probably feel better about that than anything else in this game thus far

Interestingly, this is an example of you feeling a need to justify a vote on a slot which needs none.

You're inventing a reason for davesaz to be scum here which is forced.

davesaz is an easy elimination to push from a lack of content and no strong presence of a clearly town mindset. That you felt the need to invent a reason for him to be scum, I feel is suspect.

No

I just like to be right

[Dannflor]

never disagreed with a post from a mafia philosophical playstyle viewpoint so hard in my life

[Dannflor]

Dann why do u townread me

uh vibes

idk i like that you want tbone so badly. there's a kind of desire and enthusiasm about that read that i think comes from town more often.

I think if I'm honest a big part of it is that I am looking for very specific things from you to scum read you for and I'm more comfortable treating you as town the longer we go without me seeing those things

[Dannflor]

zzz

[Dannflor]

i think reverse my earlier statement

I think davesaz is more likely to be town now

Drew I think is scum

[Dannflor]

okay my read on t-bone is that i don't think t-bone cares about finding scum, much less finding an good elimination for the day

i think even similarly fluffy posters in this game like STD (who im pretty sure is town) have very clearly been working towards trying to find the best elimination

[Dannflor]

stop responding to me.

[Dannflor]

i think drew/light_ganski are scum together

[Dannflor]

My read on T-Bone is he's a competent enough scum player to fake caring about finding scum and him focusing on finding an elimination for today would be the easiest thing in the world for him to fake.

actually sorry i can't help myself this read is so bad

t-bone is very clearly trying to look like he cares about finding scum and focusing on the elimination

see: his posts about python and his posts about ausuka

however for a variety of reasons i see these movements as fake

[Dannflor]

just because you operate on a certain level with how you develop your reads does not mean that is how i operate

[Dannflor]

you are actively making this game so frustrating and horrible for me to feel like playing and that is actively helping scum

consider that you do not have the toolset to successfully eliminate me *even* if i were scum here and you are doing more damage to the game by interacting with me this way as town than you would be doing good to the gamestate by interacting with my in this way if i were scum

if you don't get my reads you can ask me about them and we can talk about them but the way you are treating me is just not good

[Dannflor]

and I would not- in fact - be this frustrated as scum because it would actually be pretty helpful for me optically to be able to shrug off your push and look towny

[Dannflor]

Is anyone super familiar with Ranger? How often is she this dug in and engaged

she's town. it's very common for Ranger ime

[Dannflor]

oh god i just suddenly had this thought about ausuka

[Dannflor]

Okay, calmed down and this might actually be nothing.

But I had a pang of fear looking at Ausuka's reads list because she puts Ranger as a top town read (which I think is correct and I think Ausuka would struggle to attribute any other read to Ranger so nothing stranger there), but otherwise disagrees with Ranger's most fervent feelings (dann!scum, black!scum, tbone!town, etc.)

The main thing about Ausuka that has me uneasy is the fact that she isn't really involved in the game? I might be able to attribute that to it being a blitz game and Ausuka being unable to adjust. At the same time I'm worried Ausuka is hiding behind not being able to get into a blitz game to justify why she feels so spectatory.

I guess why this all has me worried is because while I strongly believe Ranger is town, I think her reads are pretty much flipped upside down and I think she is a very useful tool for scum to be either supporting or at the very least not getting in the way of. And I am left to kind of wonder whether Ausuka fits the role of someone letting Ranger do her dirty work.

this thought also kinda came about because I have felt substantially less good about light ganski's latest posting and starting tinfoiling a light gnaski/drew team and thought Ausuka made some sense as a third to that tinfoil

[Dannflor]

that's probably me getting hyper paranoid

I do kind of want to kill drew though

[Dannflor]

I think there has been enough passive support for naerys wagon that i have also assumed and still assume naerys is a top viable wagon candidate

i don't know why you think "thinking someone is a top wagon but they aren't" is scum indicative anyway

[Dannflor]

But I think his mindset in 502 conflicts with his townread of naerys

I don't think it does at all and this seems like you are hung up over a surface level inconsistency

[Dannflor]

tbone do you have thoughts on anyone not named Ausuka

[Dannflor]

the tone wasn't accusatory im just trying to make a decision about who to vote and knowing your views on other people in this game would be helpful

[Dannflor]

i also did not imply you have tunneled on one slot...

[Dannflor]

you agree with everything ranger says?

[Dannflor]

like

ranger has ausuka as a top town read and me/black as top scum reads

[Dannflor]

I don't know that I feel strongly enough about my Ausuka worries to go there today, especially when the slot just got replaced by someone

I don't really feel that I want to vote you anymore

I don't want gob to end up as the default elimination

so idk what to do

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

I would like to eliminate this slot the most currently

[Dannflor]

why python

I feel like Dannflors analysis said it wel enough. For me i have sorta ruled out a lot of others, but python consistently does moves that i feel are anti-town.

i dont feel as strongly on anyone, except maybe T-bone as their is a contrast in how T-bone was talking about the V/LA stuff and how T-bone talked about everything else. Feels like scum

I have a few minutes, but are you really taking T-Bone going a bit into list mod mode and commenting on the v/la stuff.......as a scum tell?

Python, scale of 1-10, how high is this on the Drew Post Meter(or DPM for short)?

I think this sort of weird interjection between gob/t-bone is scummy - it simultaneously assumes too much innocence of T-Bone and casts shade on a gob reaction that I think is pretty towny

I overall think Drew's posting has involved a lot of shading and posting to look like he's thinking about the game, but is lacking in terms of what I'm used to seeing as genuine Drew thought

[Dannflor]

If I am still the closest when deadline hits obviously lim me. It sucks but what are you going to do we need flips.

don't make posts like this.

what are your thoughts on drew / would you join me on drew?

[Dannflor]

okay well I think you're wrong

[Dannflor]

happy scum day btw

[Dannflor]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

[Dannflor]

VOTE: drew

my ideal flash wagon probably rnow

I’ll reevaluate more later

[Dannflor]

I don't hate drew but that would mean I would have to pretend I can ever be wrong on my GTH solve

bad news for you

[Dannflor]

VOTE: usesPython

[Dannflor]

insert scum-tunnel post on usesPython

[Dannflor]

I don’t think Black is scum

And I have a pretty good track record reading her

[Dannflor]

Yeah I can in an hour or two

[Dannflor]

I haven’t forgotten the black!town case btw

I’m just waiting until i get to work in an hour and have a computer

[Dannflor]

so I think Black's scum read on Gob kind of never comes from scum

it is the kind of read that is hard to make up, but comes from town who think about the game in terms of their singular view point a lot

[Dannflor]

I'm liking my company on the Black wagon far more than the composition of the Python wagon.

THAT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE TOWN READING SCUM

[Dannflor]

I like JV I think they are town

I don't think they are correct on Black

[Dannflor]

Ganski both look the worse

You asked me for my thoughts on this slot

basically I think there has been a lot of pontificating without real action. It kind of seems like a slot that is trying to look very towny. I thought the case on gob was not very towny either. I found their hang ups on gob to be more based on surface level inconsistencies than not and I find that approach comes from scum more often than town

[Dannflor]

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

it's funny because i think there's a good chance all 3 scum are in that first list of names and that the second list of names is all town

[Dannflor]

light/python/drew is my late d1 hero solve

[Dannflor]

I could do drew in that list but I would still have higher confidence on Python

[Dannflor]

I think python is actually stressed and trying to hide it but it is still showing through in their posts

[Dannflor]

I like JV I think they are town

I don't think they are correct on Black

Why

so I think Black's scum read on Gob kind of never comes from scum

it is the kind of read that is hard to make up, but comes from town who think about the game in terms of their singular view point a lot

[Dannflor]

gob's a pretty meh wagon but dying is cringe so VOTE: gob

I think this is one instance of usesPython uses a kind of "idc attitude" to mask the fact that they desperately do not want to die and will compromise on their reads to do so. I think this comes off less as "idc" and more "I don't want my vote on gob to look optically bad so I'm gonna lean into the survivalism instead"

Like if they had an actual case or were sheeping someones case then sure whatever but the progression was a vote for not really having a read on STD

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

these two posts are less about masking stress with jokes, and more just stress. There is a kind of... note of unfairness to the tone of these posts? Like Python feels some of the scum reads on them are unjustified, or there is kind of a "woe is me" quality. And I think that is more likely to come from scum than town historically.

There isn't really a recognition that they could die and trying to share last reads / will and testimony either, which I think there would be if Python was really so afraid of dying D1

[Dannflor]

They’ve been treating gob like fodder. Up to the point where I repped in and wasn’t there to push it, they were relentlessly pushing gob to the extent that I would assume more than 75% of the posts since the inherent shift to gob was exactly that, pushing gob. A lot of it was trying to find and gather people to vote gob more so than I would deem truly analysing him. In fact, the one post I recall them maybe trying to genuinely analyse with an honest question was left in the dust when gob answered decently. Which I see as it failing to do what Black wanted, which was more reasons to push them.

It reeks of agenda. And that is taking pre flip associations with ganski out of the topic cuz it isn’t the place but it’s in my head too

black's push on gob was for extremely personal reasons that were later somewhat responded to remedied

i don't really feel this is an accurate representation of black's push on gob

[Dannflor]

Was asking about the first bit

tone is genuine

[Dannflor]

i think black pushing for the wagon she wants is par for the course for town!black

in my experience she has more trouble believably hard-pushing people as scum

[Dannflor]

i think black pushing for the wagon she wants is par for the course for town!black

in my experience she has more trouble believably hard-pushing people as scum

… this is what anybody would do I don’t get what you’re trying to say

sorry im also at work and trying to elaborate on complex thoughts in a short time

uh but basically i think tunneling on a slot is kind of a town tell for black, obviously this isn't in a vacuum. It depends on her reasoning for the tunnel and the circumstances around it, but i think she's a little more aware of her optics as scum and thus appears to be more "reasonable"

her push on gob A. didn't appear optically how I'd expect a Black!scum push on someone to appear and B. was for reasons that I think would be pretty hard to make up as scum. like the original reason for pushing gob was pretty unique and something that I think would only come to mind for Black as town

[Dannflor]

black I think JV is probably town too even if usesPython flips scum

[Dannflor]

i think we are safe to hammer usesPython even if they don't show up to claim before EoD


836 implies that they aren't a mason

[Dannflor]

3 hours on the clock

[Dannflor]

actually drew might be town

i revise my earlier hero solve to usesPython/light_ganski/davesaz

[Dannflor]

T-Bone is solid town

[Dannflor]

I guess I feel it is kind of too late for light ganski although I do not hate that elimination choice

[Dannflor]

beep boop

[Dannflor]

scary

[Dannflor]

Please hammer

Ranger is lying

[Dannflor]

python very clearly claimed not mason

[Dannflor]

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

[Dannflor]

yeah python would have claimed it before they went to bed and were unsure if they'd be awake before deadline

[Dannflor]

yeah i don't necessarily think ranger is scum for lying but i do think she is lying because she has too much confidence in her own reads

[Dannflor]

davesaz you should hammer

[Dannflor]

yeah it's pretty bad play

[Dannflor]

no i want python

[Dannflor]

i could think it's worth it to trade my life for mason!Python

but actually i just know ranger incredibly well and know that this is fake and probably even town fake

[Dannflor]

I hate that ranger did this now, made me paranoid

the hilarity fades quick

[Dannflor]

hello usesPython would you like to come in to the thread and confirm your claim

[Dannflor]

I’m actually… is naerys wolf?

what prompted this

[Dannflor]

naerys has posted once or twice and dipped all game

it's not as scummy as Python not being here right now

[Dannflor]

i believe python is awake so im questioning why they aren't in thread right now

[Dannflor]

okay thx mate

[Dannflor]

ill take full responsibility if im wrong

but i want credit

[Dannflor]

jokes on you i wanted post 1112

[Dannflor]

naerys town

[Dannflor]

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey, Black, Save The Dragons

if Python is scum i think this whole wagon is town tbh

JV and Ranger are the towniest off wagon

so lim in [light_ganski, davesaz, drew, tbone] probably in that order

then if the game doesn't end lim Ranger for the mason claim

if python is scum of course

[Dannflor]

not happening

[Dannflor]

no okay if im wrong i still think this is largely a town driven wagon

but I'd scrutinize naerys pretty closely and I'd reevaluate on black probably

still think light_ganski is scummy either way

[Dannflor]

woohoo!

[Dannflor]

gg wp

thanks for modding dragon