Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[Ranger]

{usesPyrhon}
{Naerys}
{light_ganski, gob}
{Black}
{Dannflor}

P1.

VOTE: Dannflor

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{Save the Dragons}
{light_ganski}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

P2.

[Ranger]

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Coincidentally, that’s my take on you.

I recall last time I thought this, I was right.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

[Ranger]

P3

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz, T-bone}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

P4

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz, T-bone}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

P5.

[Ranger]

i think black and gob are both town

What a coincidence!

I think they’re both your scumbuddies.

Although there’s a chance gob's town and it’s Cook instead.

[Ranger]

incorrect, stop, get off me

Nice try.

[Ranger]

Coward where's my scum read?

Tempting as it'd be to scumread someone with almost exactly opposite reads to me, my efforts are best spent identifying town/scum.

Your reads identify you as the former, alas.

[Ranger]

Whoever it was that said gob+black, I don't think I see them as scum together

I do.

The interactions between Dannflor, Black, and gob scream distancing with intentions to fake organic interactions, yet falling flat. Given Black and Dannflor are both deepwolf players, if they decide distancing isn’t enough, gob's the most expendable.

It’s still possible gob's just town being used, but Dannflor and Black are locks for scum.

[Ranger]

I....haven't professed any reads. Curious.

My mistake. I crossed STD's post as being yours.

The sentiment still applies off your posts though, as it applies to both of you.

[Ranger]

Dragons feels very fluffy so far :neutral:

An overall towntell. He can fake it, yet his content suggests this is yet another town game from him.

[Ranger]

I'd like to see this illustrated though

There’s less than 11 pages, of which the three players in question combined make up less than 3 pages. Since not every post they make relates to each other, it’s even easier to narrow down.

I’m mobile rn, try a triple iso of the players and see if you can see what I did. When not mobile, I can save you the work, yet all I’ll be doing is linking the posts in question. You already have my analysis of them; there’s nothing extra to give.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

I actually townread everyone from Drew above.

[Ranger]

Cool, will you help me fade gob then?

I'd prefer a deepwolf before I'm killed.

I'll settle for a bus if need be.

[Ranger]

Why is Black so low

Because I don't think this is Black as town, I spot signs of a Black powerwolf performance, and I think Black is scum with one or both of Dannflor+gob by interactions.
Plus, I've reasons for townreading most players; Black isn't among them.

[Ranger]

what makes you say this?

I've reasons for townreading most players, and only four players have none.
Of them, I've strong feelings of deepwolf performances with forced interactions regarding Black and Dannflor in particular, with you in the peripheral. I could be wrong about you, because it's possible I'm slightly misreading the scum strat.

[Ranger]

What is this meta read based off of? We've played one game together and I was town

If you're not aware, you've gotten titled off your scumplay, as well as a Don Corelone nomination to your name. I've read more than one game with you. However, full disclosure; my read isn't meta. It's the same standard I use for most players.

[Ranger]

*checks to see if maftigers is still a thing*

As an avid user, I regret to inform you, alas, it does not. ;_;

[Ranger]

I think more people should vote usesPython.
Ranger especially

Sorry, I'd normally ask for your perspective to consider; I'm disinclined to vote my masonbuddy.

[Ranger]

Tbh I think ranger/light/python is 3 town right now

I agree, and you make #4 for my towncore.

I have Naerys for five.

[Ranger]

Elaborate on why not. Ftr, I do town read python.....but no real read so far on the other two. So the more info the better

This post might be just too wacky to come from scum

I agree, tentatively. I think a scum-Drew would be more inclined to effort, not lurk.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

[Ranger]

I'd like to see this illustrated though

There’s less than 11 pages, of which the three players in question combined make up less than 3 pages. Since not every post they make relates to each other, it’s even easier to narrow down.

I’m mobile rn, try a triple iso of the players and see if you can see what I did. When not mobile, I can save you the work, yet all I’ll be doing is linking the posts in question. You already have my analysis of them; there’s nothing extra to give.

I'm a visual learner. I can wait.

Triple-iso.
8, (if Cook instead of gob, 12+13,) 17, 19, 21, 26(dropped the Dann wolf read), 39(Dann focuses on usesPython without returning to gob), 95/96/97/98 which drops without resolution, 106, 123, 132, willingness to compromise elsewhere, 148(without explanation or attempt to get Black to see gob town as if it's not needed), 156, 166, 179, 182 then instead of pursuing it going for 185, 204.

That's what caught my eye. As a reminder of what to look for;

The interactions between Dannflor, Black, and gob scream distancing with intentions to fake organic interactions, yet falling flat. Given Black and Dannflor are both deepwolf players, if they decide distancing isn’t enough, gob's the most expendable.

It’s still possible gob's just town being used, but Dannflor and Black are locks for scum.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

Normally, I'm reactive/lazy, and don't provide reasons unless engaged.

Given blitz deadlines though, I need to post as close to bedtime now to avoid a prod by the time I wake up tomorrow. Since I've no new content, a brief rundown.

I understand the suspicion on UsesPython and Naerys but

don't want my masonbuddies voted

I see their perspectives as town, despite understanding why they're seen as suspect. These reads are where I'll likely need to explain most going forward; for now, this'll suffice.
Ausuka's presence has been strongly indicative of a solvey mindset I believe demonstrates she's town.

light_ganski is good vibes, as well as not seeing who would be scum with light.
Doctor Drew feels like he's not scum trying, and I don't think he's scum lurking.
Save the Dragons' fluffposting is traditionally +town, and I believe his reads are genuine despite their opposition to mine. I can trace his thought process, I simply disagree.
T-Bone's direction, I can follow, despite similarly disagreeing with his thoughts.

davesaz is nulltown. He's got no real reason to be town beyond weak gut of not seeing scum.
Cook is nullscum. I already have a solve, yet Cook fits as a possible alternative for gob and has nothing to provide a better read.


gob, Black, Dannflor, refer to 395.

[Ranger]

Your tunnel on us feels like a scum tunnel

I agree.
I can see where a town-Dannflor's coming from, despite my belief you're town.
My gut tells me this is a scum-Dannflor.

Something

feels missing from him. I don't know what, yet it feels he's imitating townplay, rather than being town.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{light_ganski}
{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

[Ranger]

VOTE: gob

[Ranger]

VOTE: davesaz
Would happily kill davesaz based off that vote alone and probably feel better about that than anything else in this game thus far

Interestingly, this is an example of you feeling a need to justify a vote on a slot which needs none.

You're inventing a reason for davesaz to be scum here which is forced.

davesaz is an easy elimination to push from a lack of content and no strong presence of a clearly town mindset. That you felt the need to invent a reason for him to be scum, I feel is suspect.

[Ranger]

ppl any will for a dann lim?

I was there; I don't think we have the support.

[Ranger]

Davesaz has quite a few game-relevant posts but none of it feels very, uh, juicy? I think the read on gob feels like ... Ok, first of all, I don't think that's an inconsistency, but gob poking holes in light's thought process. I don't expect dave to be super committal early, but his approach to gob and his play in general just don't feel super critical?

You are describing davesaz as a player.

I don't think you're describing davesaz as an alignment.

davesaz has always been a bottom-poster, known notoriously as mislim bait.

If he is your top tier of scumread, your reads are not giving enough critical thought towards the game. He shouldn't be a top scumread, even if he's scum.

A davesaz scumread in my opinion is thoroughly lazy. He's not worth my time to defend, particularly given there's a chance he's scum regardless. I weakly lean town, and I encourage you to think about his playstyle and content from the lens of him being chronically lackluster regardless of alignment. I don't think he's lackluster scum.

I think T-bone is probably still the scummiest player in the game. I hope this was clear from what I said earlier but - I think his thought process in the early interaction with python doesn't make sense. I don't really believe he asks "Why is python so rattled?" as a neutral question, or that such a thing is natural to do. When I asked about it, he said that it could get responses anyway, which is like true to an extent, but 1) you're going to get more responses if you don't make it look like a rhetorical question and 2) I just don't see the thought process that leads to T-bone not thinking python is scummy and asking that. His play feels overly cautious and unnatural to me. This hasn't changed over time; his posts in general don't really feel interested in finding other people's alignments.

The same applies to your T-Bone read as to your davesaz read. You are describing T-Bone's playstyle. I don't think you are describing his alignment.

T-Bone as a player is thoroughly "cautious". That's not an alignment tell.

What you need to be looking for is the thought process behind the caution. Do you believe T-Bone is cautious town, or cautious scum? I don't think he's cautious scum.

A failure to understand playstyle should not create the basis of your strongest scumreads.

[Ranger]

i think ranger’s readslist is wrong and while gob’s wagon is justified he’ll flip town

It's certainly possible gob flips town. If so, then my first assumption would be you're not on my team.

[Ranger]

would prefer a tbone/dann flashwagon but not enough will for that

T-Bone would be a lazy wagon, so would davesaz. Technically gob is as well, and I'm not enthused about our prospects of hitting scum while being lazy. If we must be lazy to get an elimination, I'd prefer the candidate within the lazy lim pool I think has the highest chance of flipping scum. For me, that's gob.

[Ranger]

light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black, Ranger
You feel this is a towny wagon?

It's certainly possible light_ganski is a power wolf (I don't think with either Black or Dannflor, but if neither Black/Dann are scum, I'd eye light as a powerwolf candidate), and I think Black's likely scum. The wagon is also lazy. It's not towny, nor scummy. Just exists.

Tbone I have had basically a nothing read on which means he could easily flip scum

Exactly the sort of player scum want to eliminate to avoid eliminating scum. Town players who are minimal-read and can create an easy scumread.

It's not a genuine real read from you and if you're town you should be honest and admit it.

[Ranger]

Ranger vote tbone

I'm disinclined to vote a player I believe is town who I see no good coming from being mislimmed. As you said yourself,

Town thone doesn’t really tell us anything

Given I believe T-Bone's town, a mislim on him gives us nothing and thus I've no reason to vote him.

[Ranger]

Dann why do u townread me

He's scum latching onto you as a tool to push two potential mislims because your top two scumreads are playstyle based. You put great thought into them and made them sound appealing to be sheepable, giving him a way to distract from the gob wagon.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{light_ganski}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

My falloff in the light_ganski read likely takes the most explanation. I don't think light is scum with Black; I don't think light is scum with Dann; light's more recent content has rubbed me wrong and triggered my "player deepwolfing" reflexes, because it looked like the takes of scum setting themselves up rather than town working things through. However, if light were scum light would still need partners and I don't see who light's setting up for an endgame. I'm willing to chalk this up to paranoia for now, but pends investigation when I can.

I've vibed with T-Bone's content indicating he's town here. His approach feels his normal town approach. He's not a lock for town because he deliberately mirrors this as scum, yet I feel he's not showing signs of deliberate forethought behind his actions.

davesaz has demonstrated what I believe is a solving mindset. He's put in more than the bare minimum to avoid elimination, which I feel indicates town.

Cook is guilty of the exact things Drew has been accused of and not enough people are talking about it. Cook has done nothing and has lurked into being ignored by players. If any of my scumreads are wrong, Cook is my top choice because I know Cook is better than this as town even on a bad day.

[Ranger]

Cook is guilty of the exact things Drew has been accused of and not enough people are talking about it. Cook has done nothing and has lurked into being ignored by players. If any of my scumreads are wrong, Cook is my top choice because I know Cook is better than this as town even on a bad day.

To explain, Cook has seven posts, not one of which contains anything resembling real thoughts in the game.

The closest she came was 'Ranger wrong' while hopping on Python to make them tied with gob as largest wagon in the game.

And yet, for some reason, nobody has taken notice of it. They've preferred other lazy options, pursuing gob, davesaz, and T-Bone, all who have more content in the thread than Cook.

The two reasons I'm not pushing this are because I've stronger scumreads on gob, Black, and Dannflor,
And this is an underperformance from Cook regardless of alignment. She's capable of producing hundreds of posts regardless of alignment in a couple of day phases.

I haven't given enough thought on whether it's deliberately lazy town or deliberately lazy scum; it's not the Cook I've seen before regardless.

[Ranger]

okay my read on t-bone is that i don't think t-bone cares about finding scum, much less finding an good elimination for the day

My read on T-Bone is he's a competent enough scum player to fake caring about finding scum and him focusing on finding an elimination for today would be the easiest thing in the world for him to fake.

You're not this zeroeth level, Dannflor.

[Ranger]

stop responding to me.

Not an attitude I'd expect you to take.

My reads are fluid, and highly open to change. You've seen firsthand how they switch rapidly. You very easily could engage with me and get the dialog going. Though an interaction with my points against you may not sway me, an interaction about viewpoints usually will. My viewpoint is your viewpoint isn't what it should be. You're demonstrating a lack of critical thought in areas you should be more critically thinking in. I believe that suspect, to be sure, yet I've engaged with full acknowledgement I may be wrong.

[Ranger]

i think drew/light_ganski are scum together

And given your vote, that'd make a scumteam of {T-Bone, Doctor Drew, light_ganski}.

I quite literally said I saw potential warning signs of light_ganski deepwolfing; you easily can engage me there and explain why you think this is a coherent solve.

[Ranger]

t-bone is very clearly trying to look like he cares about finding scum and focusing on the elimination
see: his posts about python and his posts about ausuka
however for a variety of reasons i see these movements as fake

Then why did you not just say you see them as fake?

I'm sorry I don't believe it.

In 594, you state

i think even similarly fluffy posters in this game like STD (who im pretty sure is town) have very clearly been working towards trying to find the best elimination

If T-Bone is trying to look like he cares, then he would still be working towards trying to find the elimination.

You can't have it both ways.
T-Bone can't be not trying to work towards getting the best elimination,
While also faking trying to work towards the best elimination.

It's either one or the other.

I believe your "T-Bone isn't trying" take was disingenuous because you know better. I believe you are attempting a backtrack on a valid callout rather than admitting you weren't approaching as you ought to have and now you are making things up. I believe this is a trait more likely to come from scum.

[Ranger]

Ranger how strong is your scumread on me and outside of associations with Dannflor/gob what is it based off of

My scale is fairly similar to usesPython's; you're -30, Dannflor's -40, gob's -10, Cook's -5, etc.

Outside associations, it's strong gut off of feeling you're positioning yourself rather than genuinely solving.

[Ranger]

just because you operate on a certain level with how you develop your reads does not mean that is how i operate

I'm not judging you off how I operate.

I'm judging you off how you operate; I'm finding the Dannflor of this game to not be giving the level of depth in thought and analysis I'd expect if you were town. To be sure there's some earlier analysis with the illusion of depth, yet the entire time it has felt you are not operating with the breadth or depth you ought to be. When you've swapped directions it has looked to me like calculated decisions made with the intention of avoiding being too tunneled and faking a town revelation, rather than genuinely doing a deep reevaluation and fundamentally reassessing the reads in question.

Whenever you have given your reads, they have felt as if they are not giving as much attention to detail and perspective as they should. You are known for trying to get other players to view other players by the perspective of other players (rather than arbitrary calls ignoring the diversity of perspectives), and here it feels like you are falling short of your own signature approach.

The way you have fallen short feels specifically because you are not actually trying and simply giving the illusion of trying.

[Ranger]

consider that you do not have the toolset to successfully eliminate me *even* if i were scum here and you are doing more damage to the game by interacting with me this way as town than you would be doing good to the gamestate by interacting with my in this way if i were scum

I am interacting with you this way specifically because I am aware I could be wrong about you being scum.

If you are town you are not showing your usual level of thoroughness in your analysis. I rightly called you out on what I saw as a lack of attention to detail on your T-Bone read. And when I called you out, you changed the story in a contradictory way. If you are town,

you

are not being honest with yourself, because if you are town then you should be able to see why I would have valid reasons to see you as falling short of your normal town self. You should see I have a point, and am approaching from the perspective of understanding players, a skillset you normally thrive on.

You have displayed a rather surface level of analysis on other players. The normal level of Dannflor depth, as well as the normal level of Dannflor outreach to other players to try and get them on the same page, is absent. Yet instead of acknowledging it and reconsidering, you are deflecting from it. That is behavior I feel calculated and strategic, coming from a scum perspective; I know it could be wrong and could be caused by any number of other factors. I've yet to see those other factors. I feel a town-Dannflor should be able to recognize I am critiquing the Dannflor I am seeing as not being up to the level of a normal town-Dannflor, then either work to fix it or explain why you can't. The approach of deflection feels unnatural.

[Ranger]

Ranger is playing completely different than the game I played with her.

/in Frenemies

As a warning; I've rusted from not playing in months, Blitzes in years, and my system has changed since I last played. It'll take time to get the Ranger groove back; I want to try.

I'd be the first to admit I'm not sure what I'll be yet, given this is my first game back. However, the same standards always apply.

I'm not 'dug in'. I've always taken the approach of fluid reads. Within my capacities, my fluid reads have evolved by trying to see things from other perspectives more than I previously did. I'm still the casual tryhard, lazy efforting. I'm still getting into the groove of finding my instincts. The Blitz format may not be the most conductive for having honed my reconsidering, as the requirement to always be around leaves little time for me to ponder away.

I'll improve with time and get refinements faster than I am. Improvements I'm lagging behind on include having kept you on the same line as Dannflor and the exact placement of people in my readslist; I do need to improve on how much I'm updating them. However, I'd estimate I'm operating at ~90% normal capacity, give or take 5%. This is still the same Ranger overall. Maybe slightly different, still largely the same.

[Ranger]

Okay, calmed down and this might actually be nothing. (snip) this thought also kinda came about because I have felt substantially less good about light ganski's latest posting and starting tinfoiling a light gnaski/drew team and thought Ausuka made some sense as a third to that tinfoil

This is better, Dannflor.

I want to acknowledge this is closer to the level of self-reflection and considering from other perspectives you were previously lacking.

However, though I see the concern behind Ausuka, I believe Ausuka is town, in a similar way to how I saw the concern on Python but believe Python is town.

I still have my doubts on you; I just don't think it's productive to press you on them and want to acknowledge if you're town you're doing better.

[Ranger]

It has been quite a long time but this feels very much like what I remember for town Ranger.

If it helps; by my estimation, I'm likely a mixture of my original Ranger self, my 2023 return Ranger self, and a little new to both. I feel I'll be my best self yet if I can get my head back into things fully; I admit I'm lagging. I may be too tired rn to critically analyze key convos like the light_ganski convo. I'm not quite reassessing and reevaluating all my reads as much as I ought to be from the new information. With time, I hope I'll get it; that's my missing 10% atm.

[Ranger]

{ranger, save the dragons, ausuka, usespython}
{t-bone, black}
{doctor drew, davesaz}
{dannflor}
{naerys, cook}
{gob}

Can you explain your top tier reads some more?

Can you explain your second tier some more?

Can you explain your gob read some more and if gob's posting has changed anything with the read from the page (e.g. 657)?

[Ranger]

Reads + notes;
{UsesPython, Naerys}
{JacksonVirgo}
{T-Bone}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{davesaz}
{light_ganski}
{gob}
{Cook}
{Black}
{Dannflor}


T-Bone; gut says town, although I've not given the care I need to.
Drew; stale read, need to reconsider. Getting static, nothing bad nor good.
STD: stale read, need to reconsider.
davesaz; ambivalent vibes, still lean town. Hard to say.
gob; ambivalent vibes, no longer scumread.
light_ganski; still good posts, yet gut deepscum vibes remain.
Black; doubting read, not sure how much.

[Ranger]

740 + 741 remind me why I developed a gob scumread.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Black

[Ranger]

740 + 741 remind me why I developed a gob scumread.

Can you elaborate?

Yes, if I find more free time than I have rn.
Short form, it reminded me of how artificial some of gob's posts and takes are. I may not have the time to cover this atm, will when I can.

[Ranger]

At this point, the only names I'm comfortable voting: Black, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey.

JacksonVirgo's insistence on gob Town makes me want to table pursuing there for now, because I don’t think it’s productive.

Though I need to get better reads on multiple players, few of them I feel are limworthy. HEM would be a compromise, because I don’t have a good read there yet.

[Ranger]

At this point, the only names I'm comfortable voting: Black, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey.

[Ranger]

I'm liking my company on the Black wagon far more than the composition of the Python wagon.

[Ranger]

Okay I didn’t want to say this but you all clearly missed the hints.

We're not mislimming a Mason today; get off of Python.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Naerys
Will likely sheep Dann later, for now this vote.

On date w/ fiancé, explanation later.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Naerys
Will likely sheep Dann later, for now this vote.

On date w/ fiancé, explanation later.

Curious about what made u SR me

I caught signs you and usesPython were masons distancing with each other. I thought the masonry was you two and Ausuka, initially. While I later had my doubts, I thought the interaction remained distancing regardless.

Then usesPython didn't flip Mason or VT.

[Ranger]

Had a lot of good happen today, so playing will wait until tomorrow.

[Ranger]

I hate that Ranger dropped this bomb and then vanished

I both had work and erroneously believed deadline was further away.

I did what I did because I figured there was no harm. I correctly deduced whoever the masons were, they weren’t going to claim or even spew themselves mason from my post. (I believe scum killed Dannflor for a combination of being town and preexisting hints, not from his disbelief.)

I also figured, yet to be shown if correctly so, we'd get good information and results regardless of the outcome.
Python Mason mislimmed gets me the N1 nightkill.
Python VT mislim gives a lot.
Python scum lim potentially spews partners.

Python Mason saved gives us a chance at scum and me getting N1'd.
Python VT saved gives us a chance at scum and guarantees a VT N1'd.
Python scum saved lasts only temporarily. It'd cost us a D1 scum elimination yet provide potentially game-ending information for Python's team.

I saw no downside to stating my sincere belief in Python being a Mason.

[Ranger]

I'll read today and review yesterday when not mobile as much.

[Ranger]

They dipped immediately as Dann called out ranger for lying

It'll get even better when I can show why I believe Naerys is scum with usesPython.

Although your slot is up there with Light_ganski as a possible third.

[Ranger]

gob, Naerys, Dannflor, humaneatingmonkey, Black, Save The Dragons

if Python is scum i think this whole wagon is town tbh
JV and Ranger are the towniest off wagon
so lim in [light_ganski, davesaz, drew, tbone] probably in that order
then if the game doesn't end lim Ranger for the mason claim

I agree partially with Dannflor, yet also disagree.

Scum had the perfect opportunity to use my "Python is a mason" claim to force another wagon through. It would’ve been short-sighted of them, yet the opportunity was there.

They didn’t take it. They didn’t even try. As Dannflor himself noted, Python was online and around, yet said nothing. I gifted scum a free get-Python-out-of-elimination card; they didn’t use it.

Since they didn’t try to save Python, it implies they accepted Python was dead regardless.

Although it’s certainly possible both scum were off, I believe Naerys was looking for the potential to hop off, and Python urged Naerys to stay.

My pool is {Naerys, JacksonVirgo, light_ganski, Doctor Drew}, because davesaz I believe demonstrated a town mindset and I still believe T-Bone was town. In particular, if T-Bone were scum, I don’t think the usesPython wagon goes through. T-Bone reached L-2 yesterday, and was more expendable than Python. He had more suspicion than Python and the momentum was there. If he were scum, I'd expect for scum to favor eliminating him over Python, because T-Bone wasn’t as power wolf as Python.

Yet Python went through, without T-Bone there to support, which would put him squarely in the crossfire.

In the same way I feel Dannflor's take on T-Bone yesterday was surface level, I believe his analysis of the wagon on scum being all town was, too.

[Ranger]

no okay if im wrong i still think this is largely a town driven wagon
but I'd scrutinize naerys pretty closely and I'd reevaluate on black probably
still think light_ganski is scummy either way

This I agree with 100%.

The reason why I had Python and Naerys as my top tier townreads yesterday was I saw their early interactions on the first pages as mason distancing. I thought Ausuka was the third Mason similarly so.

Having thought I identified the masons, when I saw Dannflor with a few others doing identically to Python and Naerys, I thought he was scum, because I already had found the masons.

Now I think I got it exactly backwards. I'll have the receipts later.

[Ranger]

The reason why I had Python and Naerys as my top tier townreads yesterday was I saw their early interactions on the first pages as mason distancing. I thought Ausuka was the third Mason similarly so.

Having thought I identified the masons, when I saw Dannflor with a few others doing identically to Python and Naerys, I thought he was scum, because I already had found the masons.

Now I think I got it exactly backwards. I'll have the receipts later.

ETA is within 9 hours.

I intend to show what I saw, why I thought Python-Naerys-Ausuka(now JacksonVirgo) were the masons, why I told Dannflor "nice try" when he mason signaled to me (yes, I understood him. I didn’t

believe

him), and what it means

now

, with the understanding I got my take wrong.

[Ranger]

I realized too late that Dann's reaction meant something.

Dann's reaction actually meant nothing. He wasn’t giving away being a mason there. He knew better. He

did

give it away

earlier

though, when he in no uncertain terms told me he was claiming mason. I didn’t

believe

him; I still saw it for what it was.

Demonstrating it is part of my receipts, when I have the free time.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Naerys
Will likely sheep Dann later, for now this vote.

On date w/ fiancé, explanation later.

Curious about what made u SR me

In short: I believe I misidentified the scum as masons, and the masons as scum, yesterday. I believe I clearly saw them for what they are, partnered, yet got which group is masons/mafia reversed.

[Ranger]

Ranger, do you also want to game-throw today by telling us JacksonVirgo is mason, for real this time?

Only if in obvious jest.

I can agree to not throw the game so long as we have the understanding it’s mutual. (Not policying me for policy or arbitrarily assuming zero scum on the Python wagon.)

[Ranger]

It's the most logical play. The mafia team wants to try and replace the mason team.

I’ll show the receipts for why I believed Python was a mason with Naerys and Ausuka, demonstrating they succeeded. Within seven hours of now.

[Ranger]

I feel like rangers next few posts are going to be telling

When I write them? Yes!

Currently life'ing rn, so you’re getting the bare minimum. My reads are

almost

inverted today, with a few constants.

After I give the receipts, or perhaps before, I’ll explain reads unrelated to them.

[Ranger]

Just looked back and actually, no dave is like INCREDIBLY townie

I’m inclined to agree.

Though neither is cleared, I like both davesaz and Humaneatingmonkey for town.

Black and gob are cleared imo, my hot take is T-Bone also is.

Those five are among my strongest townreads rn.

STD is in the weakly nulltown slot below.

Leaving four names for two scum;
{Light_ganski, Ausuka/JacksonVirgo, Naerys, Doctor Drew}.

I can see nearly any combination there as mafia, although my personal theory is Naerys with someone else. Yet to be determined which.

[Ranger]

Ranger is (objectively imo) a 50/50. Could be TWTBAWing.

On the contrary, part of why I did what I did is my confidence in my ability to demonstrate I’m town. I knew even if Python was flipping maf, I could show I’m not scum with them.

[Ranger]

I'd rather see the progression people had in regards to their votes on python to really tell you what's what

It will interest you to see a

lack

of progression from Naerys, despite numerous interactions with Python. Naerys kept the vote, yet never advocated for the Python elimination.

I’ll give receipts in around seven hours.

[Ranger]

WTF I Was wary of python since beginning

Exactly the issue.

[Ranger]

Me sticking to limming python beats any scum points you may try to throw at me

You sticking to Python is precisely the giveaway.

Town players often have doubts.

[Ranger]

I think dann was killed bcz his reads were dangerous to scum so we should stick to his solve

I think Dann was killed because he was hard-spewed town by the flip, it’s plausible scum believed he was a mason, and/or they feared his reasoning skills.

Although you’re correct enough. I believe he was mostly right. However his content is wide enough for two entirely different pools to be based around his reads. I believe overly focusing on one half and ignoring his points elsewhere would be a mistake, so the best approach is augmenting his reads with extra perspectives.

[Ranger]

this reeks

Only because I’ve yet to provide receipts.

I believed Python was a mason.

I knew I could be wrong and Dannflor could be a mason.

I knew even

that

could be wrong and

neither

would be.

Still, Dannflor multiple times unambiguously signaled specifically to me,
And You’ll see my Python reasoning too.

Regardless of who the masons were, I knew none would claim. They'd either rely on me, stay silent, or disprove the notion through Non-Indicative methods, as Dannflor did.

[Ranger]

I think I know who Dann's partners might be but I'm not sure whether that is worth speculating out in the open.

Best not to.

[Ranger]

I feel like python had more consistent suspicion on them throughout the day

From the exact same, smaller, group of players. Yourself among them, your perspective is biased.

Python never got above 3 votes until the end of the day. Dannflor revived the wagon taking it from one vote to five then six.

T-Bone got to 5.

From the perspective of those who weren’t previously voting Python, Python had more reasons to look town than T-Bone.

If both were scum, then why not sacrifice T-Bone to save the power wolf? There was enough momentum there. He got to five, I'd have compromised there to save Python so that’s six.

If they had the ability to get T-Bone and didn’t, they must have made the strategic decision letting Python go through was more valuable than T-Bone.

Considering T-Bone isn’t exactly the same level of deepscum as Python, I feel they had something to gain by deliberately not saving Python by pushing T-Bone through. It couldn’t be for T-Bone, since he'd get no towncred and would remain in the crosshairs.

It'd have to be for someone else.

My bet is Naerys.

[Ranger]

idont know how did u get the thought of me being mason in ur head,i wasnt hinting at anything

From my viewpoint, there was a clear "tee-hee~" between you two where it clearly demonstrated you knew you shared an alignment, you were just putting on a show to hide it.

I misidentified that as masons; there’s a different role which still has the same quality.

[Ranger]

Flat out saying you were lying isn't a reaction that means something?

Not to Dannflor it wasn’t. If he thought it was, he wouldn’t have said it. He only did because he thought it would be understood I lie. In 2023 I built a rapport for chronic fakeclaiming. Dannflor knew this and assumed others would, too.

[Ranger]

You included

yourself

in the masons. Are you now claiming scum?

This will be made more clear by receipts. I had a secret communication with the masons where I thought they consented to having me fakeclaim as one of them. I’ll show it within five hours.

[Ranger]

You included

yourself

in the masons. Are you now claiming scum?

This will be made more clear by receipts. I had a secret communication with the masons where I thought they consented to having me fakeclaim as one of them. I’ll show it within five hours.

For clarity, "the masons" being who I perceived as so.

[Ranger]

You included

yourself

in the masons. Are you now claiming scum?

This will be made more clear by receipts. I had a secret communication with the masons where I thought they consented to having me fakeclaim as one of them. I’ll show it within five hours.

For clarity, "the masons" being who I perceived as so.

And even more; the secret conversation I had with the

actual

Mason was Dannflor repeatedly telling me he is one and me repeatedly stating I didn’t believe his claim.

[Ranger]

right so i bussed my buddy without even trying to save them
start using ur head pls

Exactly. You were told not to try, by Python.

Both you and usesPython were online at deadline. Python never posted in here, so where were they posting? They were online and not trying to save themselves here.

That means they were talking in the scum PT.

Who were they talking to? As previously stated, I disappeared. It couldn’t have been to me, I was working.

It had to have been someone else online at the time.

You were there, and did nothing.

That makes you a prime suspect as who Python was conversing with. The most likely discussion was whether you should stay on them or hop off. Python likely urged you to remain for the towncred.

[Ranger]

python was pretty obvious sus with their vote switching in rvs

Nice try.


Dannflor did exactly the same. 6 to 9 to 12.

Yet you dropped the push on him, and kept it on usesPython.

[Ranger]

If Naerys is scum with python I feel like she would have just swapped to my wagon when it was 5v5. That probably would have been enough to save Python. It would have been 6v4 and all they would need after that was a T-Bone or Drew hammer

During the period the wagons were tied, was she around?
Was usesPython around?

That was only a couple of hours a time period.

The scum were clearly talking to each other near day end, likely on whether to try and save Python; they opted not to. Did they have the time to reach a consensus not to swap in that small timeframe?

I need to check myself; I doubt it’s there.

[Ranger]

my hot take is T-Bone also is.

Why though

1427[/post, 1360, 668, 596, 593.

I don’t think T-Bone has shown any level of indication he's planning anything, nor did UsesPython seem to indicate anything about him as a scumbuddy.

[Ranger]

I'm sorry what

Secret conversation?

Yes. We talked to each other and said one thing, yet meant another.

Again. I have receipts. You’ll be surprised how obvious they were in hindsight, you just weren’t looking.

[Ranger]

The "Tee-Hee~" between usesPython and Naerys started early.

10 + 11 looked coordinated.

16 was responded to with 22.

I saw 24 as continued strategic distancing.

I saw 25 as continued cheekiness of Naerys and usesPython being tied together as masons pretending to be mafia.

28 and 29 were both nonserious and yet serious.

31 continued their ties together.

35 continued their cheekiness.


I tied Ausuka to them off of 36(+75), and Naerys's 37 in response, augmented by Python's 117. I thought Ausuka's 131 without followthrough was mason distancing.


If you think I was the only one seeing their interactions, refer to light_ganski's 40. light painted the interaction between Naerys and usesPython as suspicious, I thought it was masons.

I believe light was right (perhaps due to being the actual third?). Light also restated it in 68. I agreed with Light, I thought it was inorganic. I mistakenly believed it was due to masons knowing each others' alignment.


It continued into 41 + 42.


(Again, light possible third from 43+44, then 55, with 67 too. 236 adds to this. 392 too. 490/491/etc. further defend usesPython.)


71 felt it was admitting they were masons being cheeky.


133 + 134 + 139 continued the tee-hee between them. 146 felt like it was Naerys trying to cheekily say they were masons with usesPython.


For Ausuka, 136 + 137 + [poar]138[/post] + 141 felt staged, to fake having no awareness of each other.


When Dannflor stated in 151 he didn't believe usesPython actually townread Ausuka, I agreed; I thought the reason why was they were the masonry.

What sold it to me as mason distancing was how despite the suspicion on Naerys usesPython alleged, they were most heavily engaging Dannflor and suspicious of him without voting there.

That made me believe the vote on Naerys was strategically placed to leave a false trail of them not being masons, and they would later hop off each other and go their separate ways, having hidden themselves from the mafia.


I thought 218 was Ausuka moving to make them do exactly that, and start the process of shifting their reads, enhanced by 278. Ausuka began upping the defense in 280, and making the same wink wink nudge nudge tee-hee interaction in 281, about Naerys.


285 had Naerys within, but usesPython was focusing more on T-Bone and Dannflor, never once addressing Naerys, with Naerys not addressing them, either. There was a mutual sense of them ignoring each other while engaging other alleged scumreads.


I thought the "masons" (Naerys, usesPython, and Ausuka) had, in the mason PT, collectively decided they were sus of T-Bone, and 300 fueled that theory.


While it seemed Naerys was not quite on the same page, I figured it was continued distancing by trying to not appear united as one entity when Ausuka posted 365. 378 made me feel Ausuka was forcing the townreads on the non-Ranger read because her explanation of them was different than for me.








In post 186, Dannflor outright told me "Ranger, I am a mason." Dannflor would never have said this to me from a page one vote on him if he wasn't trying to already tell me he's a mason. He doubled-down on mason-signaling to me in 199. "you are not good at reading me" was code for "Ranger, I am a MASON". If you know Dannflor, you know he wouldn't default to saying this instantly.



In 191, by page two, I had usesPython and Naerys as masons together (see above) and Ausuka as the likely third.

Because I thought they were the masonry, I thought 148 from Dannflor was a scumclaim, thus my 215.


When I read 186, I responded to Dannflor's mason claim with "Nice Try". This was my way of acknowledging I saw his mason claim for what it was, I just didn't believe it. "Nice try" is a phrase I wouldn't use unless there was something I viewed as an attempt to falsely sell a narrative. What narrative did I see in 186? Dannflor-mason, because he told me very early on.

That led to my 242, where I outright said it; I acknowledged Dannflor was trying to pretend to be a mason; I thought he wasn't.

602 was another "I am a mason and you should not be this much in opposition to me" post. Since I was aware I could've been wrong on him, I made 674/679 acknowledging this.




In 384, I signaled to what I saw as the masonry, asking if it was okay for me to fake being masons with them, to get a VT killed in place of a mason.


In 396, I deliberately placed the three masons together, separating them from the rest. It meant I saw usesPython, Naerys, and Ausuka as all the strongest, with everyone else below, because they were who I thought the masonry was. It was designed to reinforce the previous hint. And my reasons were transparently not the real ones, part of signaling:

I understand the suspicion on UsesPython and Naerys but

don't want my masonbuddies voted

I see their perspectives as town

, despite understanding why they're seen as suspect. These reads are where I'll likely need to explain most going forward; for now, this'll suffice.
Ausuka's presence has been strongly indicative of a solvey mindset I believe demonstrates she's town.

I reinforced "hey, I know you're masons" by strikethrough mason text and putting Ausuka next to them with a similarly nonsense explanation. The real reason those three were my top townreads is I saw their interactions as cheeky masonry mechanics.


Then, immediately after, usesPython seemingly affirmed my signal, by stating they were done distancing. They had been voting Naerys, so by swapping off, they would be 'done' distancing. I believed this was usesPython's way of telling me I was right about all three being masons, and a signal of blessing to me to move forward.

There was a post where I swore Python called me a mason to confirm the plan of me fourth-masoning, I sadly can't find it.




All of this was beginning to culminate in 688. I didn't list usesPython, Naerys, or JacksonVirgo, due to belief in them being masons.
I didn't list Dannflor because of acknowledging he could be town.
I listed everyone else.


When JacksonVirgo came in, I began to have doubts Naerys was a mason, and thought the third might be gob from 891 and similar. JacksonVirgo's defense of usesPython told me I was right about the usesPython-Ausuka mason connection though.



I didn't have time to verify (I was working), so I knew I could be wrong on usesPython at this point. Still, I felt I had connected the two strongly.



This is how I thought Naerys and usesPython (with Ausuka/JacksonVirgo) were town masons.
It was also how I thought Dannflor was scum despite his very obvious signaling.


And now, I believe the opposite.

Naerys never really interacted with usesPython.
usesPython never really interacted with Naerys.
Their interactions were performative alright, just not for masons.

Given all of this, my conclusion:

Though there may be extenuating circumstances as to why, I'm going to say something I loathe to utter as I thought it never could apply;

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}

{

Doctor Drew

, Save the Dragons}

{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}

{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

If you invert Ranger's readslist here, you'll have the entire scumteam. Vote out the top of her list, and the town wins every time.

[Ranger]

Let's see em. I wasn't paying attention i will admit.

I probably didn't format it well. Still, all the receipts are in 1467.

[Ranger]

Ranger they all voted each other for most of the day
Why would masons do that that's not distancing that's suicide

It's not suicidal if they never push each other. It's level 2 mason play. Not the smartest strategy, yet smarter than forcing townreads on both masonbuddies and signaling to the scumteam exactly who to kill (level 1 play). I believed their push on each other was designed to deliberately prevent scum from putting them together as a masonry, while avoiding the town wagoning them to elimination.

Naerys was inactive enough at deadline I thought usesPython being in hammering range may have been unintentional.

[Ranger]

But I will engage with it if you engage with my content as well. Good?

When I see things worth engaging, sure!

[Ranger]

Yes rl happens and stuff, but don't keep teasing it and not showing your work.

Don't ask me to show my work at work, that's doxxing. :P

[Ranger]

Ranger they all pushed each other all day

I've demonstrated they didn't. Notice the falloff of Naerys posts later? Notice how usesPython didn't push Naerys outside of the beginning of the game? Naerys

voted

usesPython. Did she give a single reason past the RVS? It was weak the entire time. I thought Naerys was pushing usesPython to throw off them being together and aligned. I still do, I just know it's not as masons now.

[Ranger]

I'm really having trouble believing you truly believe all the subtext you are hamfisting into everyone's posts

Well that's certainly not an issue on my end. Perhaps you can try thinking like me rather than you?

I'm a player who thrives on subtext. I see it where it isn't, apparently; I still saw it regardless.

[Ranger]

So do the same with me, even if you think mine isn't worth engaging (which sucks and hurtful to hear but okay).

My apologies. I didn't intend it that way. I put in the minimal amount of effort I feel is needed. If I think someone is making posts which my engagement won't further the gamestate in a productive way, I won't engage them. For instance, I understand you've made points about gob being scum, among others. I believe your perspective, and I see the flaws in your points, so I certainly could help convince you why you're on the wrong track.

The reason I haven't is because there's not a need today. I'm not getting killed, nor limmed. Neither will gob be. That means your pursuit of that route today is fruitless. It doesn't mean your content isn't worth engaging in general. It means it doesn't further the game to engage

today

.

If I have more free time, I may do so.

[Ranger]

Did you cross reference with Dann's reads?

As I saw it, there were two possible mason combos.

Some combination of usesPython, Naerys, and Ausuka (possibly with another substituted out),
Or Dannflor with his pals.

Dannflor would never be masons with any of usesPython, Naerys, or Ausuka.

If that was unclear, I apologize. Dannflor being a mason was mutually exclusive with the others being masons. I thought they were masons and Dannflor wasn't. I was willing to acknowledge I could be wrong. I could've been wrong with Dannflor as a VT despite me spotting mason signals. I could've been wrong and Dannflor was a mason meaning none of those I believed were masons would be.

Does that clarify?

Dannflor pushing usesPython meant nothing to me because as I saw it they were already effectively a 1v1 in terms of mason claim v mason claim in subtext. Same vice-versa. I believed usesPython over Dannflor.

[Ranger]

Isn't one of your arguments that you believed Dann and python were masons

How did you misread my post that badly? (Not an accusation, a genuine need to get clarity.)

I apparently need to clarify because that's the exact opposite of what I said.

I said Dannflor signaled being mason.
I said usesPython signaled being mason.
I said Dannflor and usesPython were mutually exclusive.

I said usesPython and Naerys signaled together.
I said usesPython and Naerys weren't mutually exclusive.

Where's the confusion forming on your end?

[Ranger]

I'm sorry but no this is not correct.

Given I'm the one thinking my thoughts, I like my odds of being correct.

I saw subtext. I pointed it out.

usesPython gave mason subtext, particularly with Naerys and Ausuka(JacksonVirgo).

Dannflor gave mason subtext.

They were mutually exclusive.

I believed usesPython and Naerys over Dannflor.

Thus my top-tier townread on usesPython and Naerys (masons together),
And my bottom-tier scumread on Dannflor (who I thought was scum pretending to be a mason).

Regardless of whether you agree the subtext was there, I saw it and there's evidence I did from my engagements with the slots in question.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Enchant
Hello!
Your welcome gift is a vote.

[Ranger]

Ranger you seem kinda unconcerned about the wagon against you. Just trying to continue to hunt and pressure. It reminds me a lot of how Python responded to pushes.

As long as players are sheeping Dannflor, I see no reason to be alarmed by votes on me.

Given Dannflor explicitly believed I was town, sheeping him means the votes on me never get an elimination.

If you’re interested in an elimination disobeying Dannflor, I’m happy to engage with you; I’m working under the assumption the majority of players here today are of a different perspective.

[Ranger]

Ranger you seem kinda unconcerned about the wagon against you. Just trying to continue to hunt and pressure. It reminds me a lot of how Python responded to pushes.

As long as players are sheeping Dannflor, I see no reason to be alarmed by votes on me.

Given Dannflor explicitly believed I was town, sheeping him means the votes on me never get an elimination.

If you’re interested in an elimination disobeying Dannflor, I’m happy to engage with you; I’m working under the assumption the majority of players here today are of a different perspective.

This is perhaps poorly worded. Let me simplify.

Either you want to follow Dannflor's desires, or you don’t.
If you want to follow Dannflor, I am off the table. I am under the impression the majority of players want to follow his wishes, and Dannflor was explicitly against a D2 Ranger lim.

If you want to disregard Dannflor's desires, I’ll happily let you, and would love to interest you in a Naerys elimination. Dannflor didn’t properly assess her presence on UsesPython, so she is the scum he missed.

I’m under the impression the majority of players want to follow Dannflor's reads. As such, I’m in no danger, and my desire for a Naerys elimination is unobtainable today. It’s why my Naerys vote was only there until after I cased her.

If I am mistaken, then I will shift gears and happily clarify why Naerys is transparently aligned with UsesPython.

As previously stated, I’m a casual tryhard. I don’t waste effort on something unnecessary. If the majority are sheeping Dannflor, then I need not push Naerys beyond my case nor defend myself.

[Ranger]

DkKoba replaces JacksonVirgo

Here's to hoping the Naerys buddy is the light slot, not the Ausuka slot, because I weep for you otherwise.

[Ranger]

If youre town then you need to give up your weird ideas of Dannflor and following him.

Tell that to the players who started today insisting they would. (I’m not the one advocating for sheeping Dannflor so you're calling

their

logic fake.)

I disagree, and believe myself in the minority for not blindly sheeping Dannflor.

If I am actually the majority, then I have reason to return to pushing Naerys.

[Ranger]

There’s numerous posts I’ve skipped addressing; when not mobile, I’ll tackle them.

[Ranger]

Her being town requires her to have kept detailed notes anyway unless she literally went back through the game and tried to recreate every single emotion and feeling she had about every post she put on her giant wall

Why do you think it took four hours to write? There was reason I couldn't do it on my phone, least of all when working. It took four hours on a proper computer free of distractions.

I manually read through the entire area and recounted my process at the time. I don't take notes, I simply put the effort in to recreate my thought process.

If I had taken notes I'd have remembered where the usesPython comment was where I thought they reciprocated my strikethrough masonbuddy comment; I couldn't actually find that. I also got fatigued the further I went, and my plan to better format went out because I ran out of energy. I'd intended it to be succinct, neat, organized, and all cohesive with an easy flow to follow. By the time I finished, I was too burnt out to try and posted it raw.

[Ranger]

More votes on Jackson please

I support this elimination, if we have the support I am all for it.

[Ranger]

{gob}
{Black}
{humaneatingmonkey, davesaz}
{T-Bone}
{Save The Dragons}
{Doctor Drew}
{Enchant, JacksonVirgo}
{Naerys}

[Ranger]

Enchant (2):

Ranger, T-Bone

oh fuck never mind on enchant

As long as you assume I'm scum, you're never limming scum because my lim pool is comprised of the two remaining.

{Naerys, light_ganski/Enchant, Ausuka/JacksonVirgo, Doctor Drew}

I don't support davesaz or humaneatingmonkey because both are strongly spewed town.
I don't support Black or gob because both are strongly spewed town.
I don't support T-Bone because imo he is strongly spewed town.

I don't support STD who I feel is town.

POE, remaining four names contain both scum.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[Ranger]

Personally, if I had to guess I would say Drew lazy town, I lean town on JacksonVirgo, and believe it's Naerys + Enchant. However, I know I could be wrong on my guess, so I will vote anyone not clearly town.

[Ranger]

Personally, if I had to guess I would say Drew lazy town, I lean town on JacksonVirgo, and believe it's Naerys + Enchant. However, I know I could be wrong on my guess, so I will vote anyone not clearly town.

you vote "not clearly town" virgo but here you lean town on them
some contradictions, smh

Nice try. My stance has been very clear.

I believe both remaining scum are within {Naerys, JacksonVirgo, Enchant, Doctor Drew}.

I would vote anyone within that pool. JacksonVirgo has the most votes.

I personally think the team is Naerys+Enchant; my exact solve could be wrong, so I will vote any of the others within.

I can both believe JacksonVirgo is town and believe there's a good chance they flip scum. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I've explained my stance here repeatedly.

[Ranger]

Personally, if I had to guess I would say Drew lazy town, I lean town on JacksonVirgo, and believe it's Naerys + Enchant. However, I know I could be wrong on my guess, so I will vote anyone not clearly town.

... why are you voting me if you lean me town?

Because you're in the PoE pool and have the most votes.

There's solid evidence suggesting your slot is likely scum. Ausuka had +scum interactions with usesPython, which you continued strongly. The chance you're scum is very high.

I personally believe the team is Naerys + Enchant. However, my personal belief could be wrong. And if my personal solve is wrong, then you would be one of the only other slots which could be scum.

I think you aren't scum; I think you still have a high chance of flipping scum.

And Doctor Drew has seen me explain this exact stance before so should know better.

[Ranger]

And Doctor Drew has seen me explain this exact stance before so should know better.

Reference.

I am willing to vote players who I personally don't believe are town when they are within my PoE and have a reasonably high chance of flipping scum.

It's both true JacksonVirgo is someone I currently lean town on and believe isn't town,
And that JacksonVirgo has a high chance of flipping scum, is within the PoE pool, and worth voting.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. My reads aren't perfect; my solves can be wrong; I'm willing to work with other players and pursue the elimination on a player they believe is scum if I feel their suspicions bear merit. This has always been my mafia philosophy and should be everyone's, so there's no big deal to be made and no contradiction within.

[Ranger]

And Doctor Drew has seen me explain this exact stance before so should know better.

Reference.

I am willing to vote players who I personally don't believe are town when they are within my PoE and have a reasonably high chance of flipping scum.

It's both true JacksonVirgo is someone I currently lean town on and believe isn't scum,
And that JacksonVirgo has a high chance of flipping scum, is within the PoE pool, and worth voting.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. My reads aren't perfect; my solves can be wrong; I'm willing to work with other players and pursue the elimination on a player they believe is scum if I feel their suspicions bear merit. This has always been my mafia philosophy and should be everyone's, so there's no big deal to be made and no contradiction within.

Typo'd, fix'd.

[Ranger]

Anyway i doubt ranger just speedruns vote on me to piss me off.

I was trying to elicit a reaction, although it was not my only motivation.

I voted Naerys as a placeholder until I could explain why she's obviously the scum on the usesPython wagon. I knew there wouldn't be the support for an elimination on her, least of all led by me, so my vote would be wasted there after I had explained myself. Since I had just finished explaining myself before you came in, my Naerys vote had served its purpose and I needed to find a vote which wouldn't be worthless.

There was about equal momentum between the two remaining names I most wanted to vote; JacksonVirgo, and you. You having just replaced in, I joined the wagon on you because I wanted you to react to it.

[Ranger]

If we don't have the support for Jackson I'd rather go Enchant over dave or Ranger

You have my support for either Jackson or Enchant.

[Ranger]

Dann seemed pretty convinced she was in her town meta and I generally trust his reads.

I believe you're aware, yet it bears mentioning again;

but I'd scrutinize naerys pretty closely
still think light_ganski(/Enchant) is scummy either way

so lim in [light_ganski(/Enchant), davesaz, drew, tbone] probably in that order

Dannflor's preferred elimination after usesPython was light_ganski, who is the Enchant slot.

There's game-long partner interactions between the two, which I saw when I reread the majority of D1.

[Ranger]

Yeah there is a clear disconnect here

The disconnect is in your ability to process statements working together with you seeing them otherwise.

1595 is my readslist still.

Maybe

JacksonVirgo deserves to be a new tier above, between light_ganski/Enchant and Doctor Drew; their placement remains overall accurate.

JacksonVirgo has very solid reasons to be scum. They are bottom three in my reads and inside the PoE. Any of the bottom four, I would vote.

My personal guess, per 1758, is they're town, with the team as Naerys/Enchant. It's only a weak lean, and because I could be wrong in my guess, I'm willing to vote them because they're not clearly town.

There's only two scum in the game, my pool has four names. That means two of them are town. I can both guess at who the town/scum within the pool are yet still stick to the pool as being accurate to eliminate within.

[Ranger]

1757 was meant to put Jackson at e-1
Ranger why would you put a townlean at e-1 when the Enchant wagon is completely viable and you think Enchant is partnered with Naerys?

Any wagon within my pool of four, I'll support. JacksonVirgo was momentarily higher. As long as the choices are JacksonVirgo v Enchant, I'll be happy with either elimination. It's important to focus attention within the pool rather than letting those outside perhaps gain momentum when they shouldn't. I don't want to give people the chance to think davesaz is viable and good. Same for HEM, gob, Black, T-Bone, etc. So as long as JV and Enchant are the focus, I'll vote either.

I'd

prefer

Enchant, to be sure. His wagon's smaller, so I felt my vote was more productive on JacksonVirgo.

[Ranger]

I can both believe JacksonVirgo is town and believe there's a good chance they flip scum. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I've explained my stance here repeatedly.

Explain how they aren't mutually exclusive

My belief is my current reads. My current reads are highly fluid and often change frequently. My belief is you're town currently. That belief is only temporary.

You have a very good chance to flip scum. This exists regardless of my current belief. I see the reasons for you being scum, acknowledge their validity, agree the theory has merit, and think there's a good chance the theory is correct. Though my current belief is you're town, there's still a good chance the belief is wrong and you are scum. Because this chance is very high, I support an elimination, despite my current belief being you'd flip town.

[Ranger]

Does your definition of viable change when there is less than 24 hours left on deadline? It does for me.

Depends.

Some wagons lack the votes no matter how close they get.

Other wagons can go through when they otherwise wouldn't.

It's a case by case basis.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Enchant

[Ranger]

If we don't have the support for Jackson I'd rather go Enchant over dave or Ranger

You have my support for either Jackson or Enchant.

Why would you rather go Jackson over Enchant?

I prefer Enchant over JacksonVirgo, I thought that was clear.

I voted JacksonVirgo because they had more votes.

I've swapped to Enchant for the same reason.

That will remain the case today.

I would at least try to do something with Enchant's wagon. It already had 2 votes

I was one of those two. It was essentially vanity at that point.

Now it isn't.

[Ranger]

I obviously not claiming mason, but what if i am mason?????

Nice try, you can't be a mason because I'm a mason with Dannflor and T-Bone,

obviously

.

[Ranger]

Any wagon within my pool of four, I'll support.

So as long as JV and Enchant are the focus, I'll vote either.

These feel contradictory

Well, there's not going to be support for Naerys, and I doubt Doctor Drew would be.

[Ranger]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo
Let the record show if the team is Ausuka-Naerys I correctly identified all three scum on D1 as paired and mistakenly thought it was as masons.

I even have the proof in DMs. :P

[Ranger]

Dann believes for most of D1, scum had control of gamestate because all three masons were the top wagons (I agree)
But thinks the end of day was super telling and scum got out of control because it took the three of us to hardpush to make Python happen. (I agree)
Dann thinks people who would push Ranger D2 is probably scum (that would be STD, and i would agree that it's possible)
Dann ended N1 highlighting that JV should be eliminated. We have different reasons why, but I agree with this - especially since yesterday.

It should be noted STD wasn't alone in pushing me. Naerys was pushing me the majority of yesterday. She only swapped off of me to vote Enchant, which swung momentum away from JacksonVirgo.

I believe the mafia being mistakenly thought by me to be masons explains a lot of their control over D1. That gave them four votes together, in effect. I'll own up to the mistake and the consequences of it, yet if the result of my mistake is the entire scumteam spewed, I'll take the silver lining. :P

[Ranger]

Dann thinks JV should be looked at for their defense of Python. (and Ausuka as well)
Dann is suspicious of Naerys and Python as scum theater, but might just also be Naerys as town. (I'm either)

It should perhaps reflect on me my reads match Dannflor's when under the light of the info usesPython's team wasn't the masons. I agree with these reads.

[Ranger]

I even have the proof in DMs. :P

I actually wrote this on D1.

I have Python, Naerys, and Ausuka as the masons.
I have Black, Dannflor, and maybe gob, as scum attempting the very same strat the masons are.

It’s possible I got it backwards, with Dannflor and Black as masons with gob, with Python and Naerys scum with Ausuka.


WHOOOPS.

[Ranger]

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

[Ranger]

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

It occurs to me putting probable scum to L-1 when the last mason has outed and the day is still young enough the mason likely has more thoughts to share,
Would not be a good idea.

I'm there in spirit though.

[Ranger]

why are we town reading Black and StD again

Black is part Dannflor townread, part Black's part in the usesPython wagon, part usesPython spearheading a Black wagon at the end of day, and part general solving.

Save the Dragons, there's less good to be seen. I'll need to give him a good look.

[Ranger]

i'm not voting outside of {Ranger, TBone} today and probably ever

It's your prerogative to vote town.

[Ranger]

1. Python's Day 1 performance, movement around gob counterwagon, and what it might mean for scum team's strategy.

I didn't engage you on this before, but my view was you were overlooking a much simpler answer for usesPython's actions;

They were performative.

usesPython claimed there weren't enough votes for gob. You took this as usesPython genuinely believing there wasn't. I took it as an act. I thought you were saying "usesPython knew there were the votes, why didn't they force through gob", my take is usesPython knew there was the votes, and chose not to as an act.

As Dannflor stated, scum were in control of D1 until near the end. They chose to direct things away from gob because they thought it was beneficial to avoid forcing through the gob wagon. It tells me there's likely at least one scum in the names usesPython listed as definitively opposed to the gob wagon;

since

gob

/Naerys/

Dann/HEM

/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

If there's scum in these names, then the only way to get the gob wagon through would be to scumclaim. By deciding not scumclaiming is more important, it would mean they'd need a wagon the names within could safely pivot to without it being a scumclaim.

That would give 1-2 scum in {Naerys, Save the Dragons, T-Bone, JacksonVirgo}.

[Ranger]

2. Enchant's elimination in a scum!JV world and a town!JV world.

In a town-JV world, D2 is a lot like D1; all town were wagoned. JacksonVirgo, Enchant, and myself were the only wagons I saw on D2 get above two votes, so it'd mean no scum were threatened. I'm not sure what information can be gleaned from this, scum usually can do whatever then.

In a scum-JV world, I would expect the remaining scum to loosely support Enchant as a wagon, without strongly defending JV. They'd know JacksonVirgo would be going down sooner than later; they'd want to avoid it being D2. They wouldn't benefit from hard-defending JV, nor hard-bussing them and potentially pushing the wagon through. Ergo, they would be in those who didn't park on JV all of D2 and didn't vote Enchant all of D2.

1175, 1225, 1250, 1475, 1533, [poat]1625[/post], 1675, 1754, then 1852 tell the story there.

Black stayed on JacksonVirgo the entire day, and would not be a JV buddy.
Doctor Drew hopped onto JacksonVirgo and would not be a JV buddy.
T-Bone voted Enchant and never stopped, and would not be a likely JV buddy.
davesaz never voted, so could not have been involved in trying to save JV.

Ergo, the likely scumbuddy for JacksonVirgo would be limited to,
{Save the Dragons, Naerys}

[Ranger]

It's too advanced, but in Day 3 - upon JV's flip - I would like everybody to look at STD as deepwolf or as JV's partner. STD was a last-minute vote on Python's wagon after townreading them much of the game, and on Day 2 - was instrumental in invalidating my push on JV while encouraging votes on Enchant.

One notable thing is he voted for me after being cross with me, supposedly, but I don't find it believable that he really scumread me just for calling him out as being wrong on Day 1. I believe it was an effort to invalidate my push on JV to make me look unreasonable (and if JV would flip scum, JV also went for a tactic where he would say that "he's seeing words but not getting any meaning from them").

Having checked at least the votes, I find this plausible.


However, I'd like to direct your attention to Naerys's voting pattern, having been on me before swapping to Enchant, and helping reignite the wagon on Enchant over JacksonVirgo. In fact, when the wagons were about equal, Naerys shifted momentum towards Enchant.

[Ranger]

Scum can't really believe their fake reads since they know the truth.

This is true, however, experienced scum can fake believing a read and tunneling in on it, using confirmation bias as an excuse to not expose their lack of genuine thoughts on more players.

[Ranger]

I still don't understand how Ranger is surviving

I'm annoyingly good at frustrating scum who think I'm an easier push than I am.

I still don't understand how the players suspicious of me can justify keeping that push going.

[Ranger]

i'm not voting outside of {Ranger, TBone} today and probably ever

It's your prerogative to vote town.

As opposed to yours that saves scum?

Near as I can tell, not one vote of mine has saved scum. usesPython was eliminated D1 with no vote change of mine involved at all, and my vote nearly placed JacksonVirgo to L-1. By the time I swapped to Enchant again, he was already having momentum shifted onto him over JacksonVirgo. If JV is scum, mine was not the vote which saved them; if JV isn't scum, then my vote couldn't have saved scum regardless as no scum was wagoned.

[Ranger]

Ranger totally forgot that D1, scum!Python was eliminated and was not at all like D2. As scum, that would probably be more impactful for her.

Much as I'd love to be cleared for stupid reasons like this, I was referring to Dannflor's own analysis of D1; scum were in control all of D1 until the end when they weren't.

Scum on D2 would've been similar.

[Ranger]

This is such a surface level breakdown of the votes on Jackson.

As it so happens, you're correct; I was only viewing the surface of JacksonVirgo, considering my focus was on the Enchant wagon and the voters there.

Which, notably, I did also cover yesterday. Perhaps you'd like to read my content there?

[Ranger]

Yo Ranger, why is your pfp chemistry stuff

I took experience playing mafia on EM and here to my first ComicFury game, got a reputation for overanalyzing, associated with meticulous breakdowns. There was a DragonFable Mad Scientist character who had a line, "For SCIENCE!" (which I didn't know was a reference), so I associated my overdetailed work with that character, portraying myself as a scientist. I drew myself as a scientist, with the caption "for SCIENCE!", and it became my persona particularly in werewolf/mafia games.

When I transferred back to here, I didn't want to taint my ComicFury name explicitly, so I couldn't use my scientist avatar, so I looked for something invoking the aesthetic without explicitly tying me there. I got "for SCIENCE!" as my starting signature and the beaker, and haven't drawn a replacement since. I half-finished my intended replacement, yet life got in the way.

[Ranger]

It feels like T-Bone is trying to pocket StD

Must be doing a fairly poor job then given STD's never stopped pushing T-Bone throughout the game.

[Ranger]

if the game thinks the T-Bone > JacksonVirgo is preferrable than JacksonVirgo > T-Bone, then I welcome it!

Please don't.

[Ranger]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Since you're giving him hope, let me return the L-1.

[Ranger]

One of these days players will take a look at Naerys's iso and wonder why they didn't lim Naerys much sooner.

[Ranger]

Worth noting; I know I've effectively ignored STD's push against me.

A great deal of his nonsense would be easy for me to dispel by engaging him.

I've neither the time nor energy to, regrettably.

I realize good would come from it. It would either break him from the tunnel, or show how he is tunneled, and could potentially address concerns about me others have as well. I can't do it rn, it will probably have to be a dedicated day phase for me to.

In the mean time, a scumflip would go a long ways towards showing I'm not the last. If JacksonVirgo flips scum, that I never entertained the notion of T-Bone and dissuaded you from doing so should sufficiently show I'm not paired with them.

[Ranger]

Who do you think JV's partner is?

Very obviously, Naerys.

Naerys had the most obvious partnered interactions with usesPython ever.

I pointed out how Naerys never truly pushed usesPython. They've been coasting all game on that vote because usesPython flipped scum; if people actually took a look, they'd see there was nothing to Naerys's vote because Naerys's vote was never genuine.

Naerys went out of their way to save JacksonVirgo yesterday, pushing every wagon heavily except JacksonVirgo.

Because people have somehow cleared Naerys without taking a look at Naerys's content, Naerys continues to coast by with the bare minimum.

Can you name one piece of analysis Naerys has done on any slot?

It doesn't exist, because Naerys has given none and you've let her get away with it.

[Ranger]

the way ranger absolves herself of guilt and justifies her bad behavior is gnarly.

I'm fully willing to accept guilt which exists. I'm simply not tolerant of guilt which doesn't.

I've acknowledged I made a mistake on D1 by getting the masons and mafia reversed. That led to my reads being exactly backwards, the bottom being masons and the top three being scum. That's my fault.

I've certainly explained my behavior, to be sure; I see none which I would describe as bad.

i guess it doesn't make her scum but it's annoying me and may be driving my read of her down

If you're incapable of reading a playstyle, that is not a fault on my end.

[Ranger]

when for most of the game T-Bone was like "here's a zinger, okay time to disappear for a day"

It'll blow your mind when you realize what Naerys' content this game has been.

'"here's a zinger, time to disappear" is an apt description of her iso.

[Ranger]

when for most of the game T-Bone was like "here's a zinger, okay time to disappear for a day"

It'll blow your mind when you realize what Naerys' content this game has been.

'"here's a zinger, time to disappear" is an apt description of her iso.

If you're incapable of reading a playstyle, that is not a fault on my end.

I don't think Naerys is clear, I just think she's probably town. As far as her not giving analysis or not really doing anything at all... she does that very frequently as town. I've played with her a lot recently and I don't find this behavior scum indicative for her

The playstyle is not the reason for my scumread.

The nature of her popins is.

I believe usesPython has very strongly partnered interactions with Naerys.
If JacksonVirgo is scum, I believe Ausuka has very strongly partnered interactions with Naerys.
I believe Naerys's pop-ins have strongly spewed her as scum with usesPython, and if JacksonVirgo is scum, with them as well.

They're out of sight, out of mind, but those interactions are there if you look at the iso.

I believe Naerys's content is being ignored as "this is just Naerys" combined with "Naerys voted usesPython, therefore Naerys town", and if you actually looked at the

nature

of her pop-ins and critically analyzed them, you would see this isn't just a playstyle thing; it's not Naerys just being Naerys. It's her as scum.

[Ranger]

im just going to ignore the rest of your garbage from now on probably

That's your right.

Let's see how well it affects your odds of winning.

[Ranger]

apologies if i'm being rude but i'm not going to sit here and be told i suck by someone i genuinely think is scum (which means i don't suck because i caught her)

Your belief matters little in the face of reality. However, I recall no comments about saying you suck.

It's factual you have no more than one scum in your crosshairs though because you've focused on {Ranger, T-Bone} so you either have one scum or no scum. I reserve my right to snark at someone doing the very thing they believe me guilty of.

or if she is town, she is scumsiding so heavily without remorse or awareness

I am fully remorseful for having made the mistake of believing the mafia were the masonteam and the masons the mafiateam D1. I've acknowledged that mistake and remain fully aware of it. If you think I haven't, perhaps you're not reading my posts as I've never once said otherwise.

To think I am scumsiding past D1 is a belief uniquely wrong, as I immediately corrected my perception and did a full 180 on my reads. I directly inverted them, and with the information I had gotten the masons/mafia backwards, I laid out why the mafia are the mafia.

You called that effort ridiculous, faked, no way it was genuine, yet that was my having done the work to correct it and showing the evidence for it.

[Ranger]

i dont mean to impose but can town please talk to each other with respect from now on

I always talk with respect. If there is any perception otherwise, then I need it pointed out in a way which I can see the wrongdoing on my part and correct it so they see the same respect I always intend.

I certainly get snarky with those who wrongly read me, yet my snark still carries with it respect. If I ever fail to, then I will immediately apologize and correct the behavior in question to be more mindful. (I've cut down on snark when asked to.) As far as I know, I've treated everyone with that care.

[Ranger]

gob and i shared this idea that we are sus at naerys for their reactions

I certainly agree. That's the first thing I noticed about Naerys.

Her reactions the whole game have felt faked. When I believed her a mason, I wrote it off as a mason not knowing how to hide herself. Knowing she isn't one, I've a different theory now.

[Ranger]

it's day 3 and we have no alignment indicative stuff from davesaz and naerys

Perhaps you can take a look at usesPython's treatment of Naerys.

And cross-reference it with Ausuka's treatment of Naerys.

Then JacksonVirgo's treatment of Naerys.

Then take a look at Naerys's interaction with usesPython.

And how Naerys positioned herself yesterday to delay the JacksonVirgo elimination.

And if this is too large an ask, I've done most of this work already and can give you a refresher.

[Ranger]

maybe that's not the only thing you're guilty of doing

Well then enlighten me.

I'll fully own up to mistakes where they exist.

[Ranger]

ranger can talk about my position on python whatever she wants, but hers on black is just as bad
Black being another scum wagon is very unlikely due python

I'm aware the Black wagon was scumdriven.

I believe the scum on the wagon was elsewhere.

[Ranger]

I'll be here in a bit.

[Ranger]

Also I'm famous for townreading scum, so if Ranger and Save the Dragons end up being scum together then GG!

Given STD's treatment of me, you needn't worry about us being scum together.

Working together, on the other hand...

[Ranger]

Also I'm famous for townreading scum, so if Ranger and Save the Dragons end up being scum together then GG!

Given STD's treatment of me, you needn't worry about us being scum together.

Working together, on the other hand...

I will happily work with STD, the question is if he reciprocates.

[Ranger]

Thanks man, I really appreciate that. Ill just go by my work day and I'll respond to you as soon as I can.

If it helps; I still believe the most alignment-indicative day for the game was D1. I believe looking at events, including usesPython's absence from the thread while being online (i.e., posting to the scum PT) warrant a look.

I still believe the game-long efforts to wagon T-Bone are a likely indicator he's town and he doesn't feel like scum to me, although I've little tangible behind it.

I'll say Black's felt like she's been coasting by in comparison to her D1 play, so there's concerns there, yet the strong push by usesPython to wagon her D1 similarly reflects well on her chances to be town, similarly to T-Bone.

I've had good vibes from davesaz the entire game, yet nothing concrete. I understand the points against them and they may have merit, yet by gut, he vibes town.

I've had STD as town the entire game. I do have paranoia about his tunnel being relatively easy to fake as scum, yet I still see him as more town than not.

JacksonVirgo is a mixed bag. I still believe they are a good flip, yet I'm not convinced they're scum. They've had points where I thought they were deliberately anti-spewing, and there's concerns their D3 posting since has been an effort to distance from the last scum and allow the last scum to be positioned better than they otherwise would be. At the same time, they have had plenty which has looked town to me and they are putting effort in and trying to solve, so I can see them as town.

Naerys I'm also second-guessing the scumread on. A lot of it is a combination of pride behind wanting to have gotten the right idea on D1 with the wrong execution (mafia, not masons), with a belief D1 was genuinely partnerey. I believe her actions have consistently shown her to be scum coasting by on the usesPython bus, with her likely talking to usesPython behind closed doors at day's end and deciding to stay bussing to cruise by. However, I recognize I'm not familiar with her play as both alignments and apparently she efforts more as scum than she has here.

Doctor Drew is a pile of nothing from me, which is minorly distressing. I feel I should have feelings on him, right or wrong, about whether he's town or scum. I don't, and that's alarming. Every time I try to think about his slot, I can't recall what he's done, so it's hard for me to get a vibe read on him. I don't want to condemn him because I haven't analyzed him, yet I don't want him to cruise by from having not scrutinized him, either.

I know I've failed to deliver on reassessing and reanalyzing information. That's my bad. I feel if I did the legwork, the game would be broken open though.

[Ranger]

I need to reevaluate

Okay, evaluate.

VOTE: Black

[Ranger]

I am coming around on Nae a bit, still think it should be Ranger....or even Dave here

Ranger t-bone drew should contain atleast 1 scum

I agree

Care to reconcile these reads?

[Ranger]

I've no idea why, considering I've done no reevaluation overnight.

However by gut I feel T-Bone town, Naerys ambivalent nulltown, Doctor Drew ambivalent nullscum, Black lean scum.

[Ranger]

I am coming around on Nae a bit, still think it should be Ranger....or even Dave here

Ranger t-bone drew should contain atleast 1 scum

I agree

Care to reconcile these reads?

I think you are scum......so does Nae.

Is that clear?

That explains 2294.


It doesn't explain how 2294 doesn't match 2289.

[Ranger]

I literally said you should be the lim in 2289. What isn't clear??

My mistake. Yesterday, I was reading "coming around on Nae" as a scumread, so you agreeing with Naerys stood out. Today I'm realizing 'coming around on Nae' was the opposite, you townreading her. It makes sense to me now.

[Ranger]

Jackson flipping town kinda threw me for a loop. I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

I still feel like Naerys and StD are town but I'm not even confident about them anymore

VOTE: ranger

Ranger t-bone drew should contain atleast 1 scum

I wonder what Black's sheeping a townread today would look like.

[Ranger]

Jackson flipping town kinda threw me for a loop. I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

I still feel like Naerys and StD are town but I'm not even confident about them anymore

VOTE: ranger

Ranger t-bone drew should contain atleast 1 scum

I wonder what Black's sheeping a townread today would look like.

If it wasn't clear, I already find 2308 suspect. That Black states she wants to sheep a townread, townreads Naerys and Save the Dragons, and those two in particular have been the strongest advocates of voting me, adds to it. It broadcasts following them in voting me, making my mislim all the easier to achieve.

As a reminder, tomorrow is lylo; I will flip town so tomorrow you're going in with whoever the scum think are the two most mislimmable town in {Naerys, Save the Dragons, T-Bone, Doctor Drew, davesaz}.

My guess would be Naerys + T-Bone + Doctor Drew for sure surviving, with the choice for kill between STD since he'll have been proven wrong on every read except T-Bone, or davesaz as the player least likely to mislim T-Bone if T-Bone is town (as StD can reliably be counted on to vote StD after I flip town).

If you're not critical of Black for this play, then it is your loss to deserve.

[Ranger]

I need to reevaluate

I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

These two do not go together.

[Ranger]

i would really like to shove it in his face if ranger does turn out to be scum

Is your ego worth costing the town the game by mislimming me today, heading into lylo with two scum, where your prime suspect is T-Bone, and voting him out only to find he was also town?

Is your ego worth letting a scumteam comprised of any combination of {Black, Naerys, davesaz} win the game because you couldn't accept all the people who townread me had good reason to?

I admit, you could be right about T-Bone being scum.

Who's he scum with?

I'm flipping town. No amount of manifesting being right on your read changes my alignment. You're going into tomorrow and will have T-Bone there prominently.

Perhaps consider why when you get there.

You don't get to blame me in postgame for you ignoring all three masons all individually having strong townreads on me. The only one accountable for that will be you.

If T-Bone is scum, then you're fine. If he's not, then look where your bias has gotten you.

[Ranger]

On d2, Ranger tried to go after Naerys.

I made no such effort. I

voted

Naerys. I stated it was a temporary vote until I could case her. I intended to sheep the masons, while still following my own reads.

Dannflor was suspicious of {light_ganski, T-Bone, Doctor Drew, davesaz}. Enchant was light_ganski. Eliminating the light_ganski slot was explicitly sheeping the masons, because Dannflor's strongest preference was light. There was a strong sentiment at the beginning of D2 to sheep Dannflor, so anything not mason-approved had a zero percent chance of happening.

I swapped between Enchant and JacksonVirgo all of D2. I pointed that out repeatedly.

You

pointed it out.

On D3 I similarly was sheeping the masons, while pursuing my own suspicion. I admit, and you'll point out the hypocrisy of it, this was also ego. I wanted my "{Python, Naerys, Ausuka} who I wrongly identified as the masons were actually the mafia team" theory to be shown correct. Since it has been debunked, I've had a change in perspective and realized the damage from the ego. Perhaps you'll be forced to have the same.

I don't feel that from Ranger, who just kind of plops her vote down.

I admit, I've not done the work I ought to have. I've been rather transparent about it. I've consistently said the game could be solved by rereading D1; I've yet to do so.

In part, it's because I've had life peak at the worst times. For instance, I'm unavailable the rest of today, perhaps a lot of tomorrow too, due to rl obligations.

However, my lack of freetime doesn't impact my alignment. I'm continuously reacting to newer content, even if I can't proactively review older material.

[Ranger]

please please please please PLEASE vote Ranger but if you can't vote TBone and if you can't do either maybe, MAYBE, i could settle for dave

My current bet; all three names you list are town. Scum would be in {Black, Naerys, Doctor Drew}.

[Ranger]

I'd rather fade T-Bone over you. Maybe you could help me?

And be lylo voted by Save the Dragons?

I'll pass.

[Ranger]

If you're not critical of Black for this play, then it is your loss to deserve.

I understand being critical of my defeatism or whatever but I don't think you're looking at it from my perspective. I was wrong about gob and wrong about Jackson despite having pretty strong gut reads on them. Yeah it happens but sometimes I just feel like I'm doing more harm than good when it comes to my pushes

Consider me skeptical. I was wrong about Dannflor, Enchant, and JacksonVirgo, as well as usesPython (albeit with extenuating circumstances for Dannflor/usesPython).

I've nothing in the way of giving up.

Defeatism is an easy way to let scum hide.

[Ranger]

I need to reevaluate

I don't really have much confidence in my reads anymore and I kinda just want to sheep a townread today

These two do not go together.

This just feels like shade

It is shade; I'm suspicious of you.

[Ranger]

not only is this pedantic
it is PATTENTLY UNTRUE here are RECEIPTS of you PUSHING Naerys

You

are the one being pedantic.

I made it unambiguous what I was doing with Naerys. 1164 literally said I'd be sheeping Dannflor later. 1543 went back and elaborated on it. 1555 continued to explain the concept. 1558 as well. 1798 additionally.

I

explained

my Naerys read.

I never

pushed

Naerys.

I didn't ask anyone to follow me. I never tried to sway people into voting Naerys. The entire time, I made my intentions clear; I was voting Naerys until I could explain my scumread there, and once I had, I was ready to swap elsewhere.

[Ranger]

I'd rather be mislimmed today if we're going to do it, I'm not allowing it tomorrow without great pain to all involved.

My preference as well.

[Ranger]

Next day is mylo if we are wrong

A good reason for town to hesitate in placing the player favored for the lim today to L-1, you'd think.

[Ranger]

That's a lazy read by you, do better

So's scumreading me.

Unless you're STD, he's not lazy. Just tunneled.

Pushing me today is laziness though and if you're town you have only yourself to blame for the consequences.

[Ranger]

Is this the D1 Black wagon you're talking about?
You're saying there is scum in {me, you, STD}?

Yes to the first, probably no to the second.

A wagon can be scumdriven without the majority of the votes being from scum. I explicitly was following usesPython (who I believed to be a mason, asking for my help). The Black wagon was entirely pushed, designed by, and orchestrated by usesPython. If you recall, usesPython quoted everyone who expressed interest (myself in 861) in potentially voting Black, and asked them all to vote Black.

usesPython began the effort in 842]+[post]852.

Much fuss has been made about usesPython's 836; did you all collectively forget the aftermath of 836 was usesPython singlehandedly building the Black wagon?

usesPython joined JacksonVirgo in voting Black, while pinging T-Bone, Save The Dragons, light_ganski(Enchant), davesaz, and Doctor Drew, then later myself.

The wagon on Black was comprised of those who followed usesPython's push.

The wagon on Black is therefore scumdriven, regardless of the alignment of the voters, because it was orchestrated by and entirely led by usesPython going out of their way to collect votes there.

[Ranger]

To explain more clearly;

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

Everyone remembers this post by usesPython, because we've analyzed it endlessly.

It seems none of you are considering the usesPython posts after. Python entertains the idea of Black by calling on Ranger + JV.
They start the wagon on Black after.
They add T-Bone and STD to the list.
They pinged the people they wanted to join the wagon; T-Bone, light_ganski, STD, davesaz.
They didn't quote JV because JV already had voted Black.
Then they added me because they forgot to include me before.

davesaz, did you forget when you joined in 863, you did so at usesPython's behest? You were following now-flipped scum.
In 882 I was responding to the call to vote Black.
I imagine STD in 924 was, too.

We all responded to usesPython's push, and joined at their behest. That means the wagon was scumdriven because the driver of the wagon, usesPython, was scum. None of us would've voted Black if not at usesPython's behest.

[Ranger]

Looking only at mod's VC you miss what happens between them...

Try extending this to the votes themselves. Looking at the votes, you miss the context behind the Black wagon, which was usesPython deliberately pinged us all. You know how the site upgrade pings people who quote your posts, usesPython exploited it to quote us all, blanked the post they were quoting, just to make an effective

@User

ping, to summon us to the post in question and get support.

No VCA in existence, no program in existence, will ever factor that in, yet it's the crux of the wagon.

[Ranger]

Without looking, what can you recall about Drew's game? Do you remember any reads he pushed or significant votes he made? Just give me your honest recollection before doing anything else.

You already know my answer is no, I remember nothing.

At this point I'm fairly confident {T-Bone, Save the Dragons, davesaz} are all highly likely town. By default, two scum remain in {Black, Naerys, Doctor Drew}.

It's quite possible Drew's absent vote from Black may indicate the answer to the Black wagon, where usesPython was scum with Doctor Drew and deliberately orchestrated a wagon they wanted to fail.

It's quite possible still though usesPython thought they had the votes to mislim Black and Drew's absence is because they couldn't pull it off without blowing Naerys's cover due to momentum shifts.

And it's also possible usesPython pinged exclusively town to try and get the credit for mislimming their scumbuddy, or to set their scumbuddy up when the effort failed.

I realize all three being possible doesn't narrow the scum between Black/Naerys/Doctor Drew.

I believe one of the three is correct though, and we can figure out which if we try.

That requires a level of effort we collectively have opted out of. Although if any of us do, at this point it's looking like davesaz may, or perhaps you.

[Ranger]

Dodge

Not exactly the content town should be producing considering

Next day is mylo if we are wrong

[Ranger]

game has been advanced by this game moving content

Sure has, it's rapidly advanced towards a town loss orchestrated by your inability to reconsider your read.

[Ranger]

What if Ranger is town? Will we be able to catch all the scum with no mistakes?

Considering you'll be dead and STD will vote T-Bone? That's a no for the town. Individuals may correctly name the team in {Black, Naerys, Doctor Drew}; their efforts are for naught as scum have their back to back mislims to get the win.

If you don't want that, be the change you want to see.

[Ranger]

I think the vote motion analysis says that T-Bone is much more likely town than scum.
Do the two of you each have someone else you'd like to suggest?

My pool is {Black, Naerys, Doctor Drew}. I'm not sure who the town within is; I'm confident the other two are scum.

[Ranger]

Do the two of you each have someone else you'd like to suggest?

Drew. For me its either Ranger or Drew today

Then let me emulate my masonbuddy.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

.

.

.

Together that's four.

[Ranger]

Drew is the X-Factor

Potential alternative fourth.

[Ranger]

You know how the site upgrade pings people who quote your posts

I don't know this. Must have happened while I was away. I wouldn't want to use it btw, it's all I can do to keep up with pings elsewhere.

Odd, I thought it was enabled by default for all accounts when the site upgrade launched.

Looks like this.

Now think of it as displaying a red (1), and usesPython being there on January 28th.

If you click anywhere on the box for a notification, it'd take you to the post in question. The top one there would take me to your 2393.

So when usesPython quoted me, clicking on the box took me to 861.

[Ranger]

I think you should have said this when you originally said that wagon was scum driven btw.
Now all the extra words will make those who scumread you dig in even more.

Perhaps I overestimated the critical thinking skills of town players to realize votes aren't all there is to the drive behind a wagon. It'd be my mistake for assuming they had the basic mafia knowledge to know there's more behind a wagon than just the actual votes.

I didn't include it originally because I thought the statement was a basic truth they already knew and could understand. I thought they would remember the aftermath of usesPython's "woe is me, no gob wagon possible" was to singlehandedly build a Black wagon. I thought I didn't need to do the work to remind them of key events which have been covered numerous times. If they dig in, perhaps that says more about them than it does of me.

[Ranger]

My hero solve right now is {Black, Doctor Drew}.

I actually think Naerys may be town.
I agree there's strong reasons for T-Bone to be town.
I believe davesaz has shown himself town.

I don't think STD is scum, either.

Process of elimination, it'd be the two remaining.

[Ranger]

{davesaz}
{T-Bone}
{Save The Dragons}
{Naerys}
{Black, Doctor Drew}

Current reads, although they're all fluid.

[Ranger]

VC 4.02

Votecount 4.02

Ranger (3):

Save the Dragons, Doctor Drew, Naerys

[E-1]

Doctor Drew (1):

Ranger

We have two days until deadline. That's plenty of time to decide an elimination.

Naerys is willing to vote Doctor Drew.
T-Bone is presumably willing to.
davesaz is open to it.
Black allegedly has interest in the idea.

Regardless of the elimination, if the Ranger elimination goes through unanimously, you would say that's bad for D5, wouldn't you? So let's force the scum to give away information they don't want to. A Ranger elimination going through without any viable alternative especially close to deadline doesn't do any good.

A Ranger elimination going through when I'm actively pushing back and there's plenty of time would be rather damning.

[Ranger]

VC 4.02

Votecount 4.02

Ranger (3):

Save the Dragons, Doctor Drew, Naerys

[E-1]

Doctor Drew (1):

Ranger

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-02-12 20:47:19).

We have two days until deadline. That's plenty of time to decide an elimination.

Naerys is willing to vote Doctor Drew.
T-Bone is presumably willing to.
davesaz is open to it.
Black allegedly has interest in the idea.

Regardless of the elimination, if the Ranger elimination goes through unanimously, you would say that's bad for D5, wouldn't you? So let's force the scum to give away information they don't want to. A Ranger elimination going through without any viable alternative especially close to deadline doesn't do any good.

A Ranger elimination going through when I'm actively pushing back and there's plenty of time would be rather damning.

Accidentally removed the deadline from the votecount, readded to illustrate the time we have available.

I realize the risk behind pushing Doctor Drew. If I'm the elimination today, there's at least a

chance

Save the Dragons would reconsider voting T-Bone. Not high enough to be something I want to bank on; still not zero.

If I'm wrong on Doctor Drew and the elimination goes through, then in effect today was lylo and we instantly lose tomorrow because there's no way STD avoids voting

both

Ranger and T-Bone in the resulting lylo.

I'm willing to take that risk or at least die trying to give the town that extra push.

[Ranger]

your borderline ATEs and "look at me i'm so town" statements haven't gone unnoticed
but it's not going to convince me of anything so i would save you breath

Fortunately, as it's not lylo, I can get the votes without your help, or at least push you to consider why things haven't gone as they ought to have in your world view.

I don't do AtE. I snark to be sure, but my snark carries no emotions. I also have no need to display I'm town given I'll flip as such. However, as I don't believe you won't vote T-Bone, I'd prefer to try and not have the game lost today/tomorrow.

You are already ignoring all the evidence for me being town. You are failing to look at my plays from my viewpoint. You are looking for reasons to scumread me and viewing my actions as those of scum so writing into them motivations for them which don't exist, because you are not being objective.