Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[Ausuka]

VOTE: doomfeathers

[Ausuka]

Good feelings about doomfeathers; it seems like he is being proactive town by getting things going, asking probing questions and trying to get us out of RVS as quickly as possible.

Yeah I definitely have to disagree with that. What he's done so far seems like he's trying way too hard to look like town, especially this;

Wot, no votes? We've got to start some dialogue so we can find scum. Votes start wagons, wagons start discussions, and discussions breed reactions. That's just how things work.

I'm not sure why town!doomfeathers thinks he has to introduce the concept of RVS to everyone on post 6.

[Ausuka]

doomfeathers

was quick to follow my RVS vote

Of all things about doomfeathers why is this the thing that concerns you?

[Ausuka]

Asuka- hydra of osuka and ? Or just coincidence?

Nah, I'm not a hydra.

[Ausuka]

It does appear that Doomsfeather may be forcing to be looking town, but right now, I just don't see any scum motivation in his posts.

You realise that looking town has scum motivation, right?

doomfeathers

was quick to follow my RVS vote

Of all things about

doomfeathers

why is this the thing that concerns you?

1)

He didn't wait for

Almost50's

response to his RVS vote on him. 3 and 16

2)

He didn't resist me when I prompted him to follow my vote.

uh, is A50 supposed to have an important reaction to a RVS vote?

Ah, Hello!

VOTE: Creature

(I don't know how to do the white text everyone else is using for their votes... Sorry. >~<)

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

flicking through the thread can I ask how people have interpreted this post, because I've changed my mind.

obviously, a new player, if you don't know how to use the tags, not a criticism, everyone has to start somewhere, I'm just putting it out there. (ps, [.v]player[/.v] without the .'s)

then, voting for a player who hasn't posted, but first post, so let's be nice and say RVS

however, to say I would hate for someone to be force to play if they didn't want to - this makes no sense to me because creature hasn't posted, how can you know any of their thoughts?

then I've already picked up on the Doomfeathers buddying.


there is no way a player has made links to 2 players in their first post and outed the entire scum team, this has got to be n00b town (no offence)

That doesn't clear Doom or Creature in anyway, or link doom to creature. I just think Shadpearl is likely town now.

This honestly makes no sense to me. You make a scumcase on him, and then say he has to be town because he's scummy? Why is there "no way" that he's just scum?

Also, why did you vote doomfeathers in 48?

And yeah Creature is 100% scum this game. Voting him isn't productive right now but we definitely lynch him later.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, havingfitz

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, Aneninen, JayDragonKing, Taly, texcat, Shadpearl, TheGoldenParadox, blockcandy, profii

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

Kopherald, doomfeathers, Creature

[Ausuka]

Ausuka: Flies under the radar

what

[Ausuka]

Ok so Creature is actually town I guess.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Unvote: Creature
Vote: Almost50

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

I agree with this logic -and I'm willing to put Almost50 on the chopping block to try it.

I was willing to accept the first post as possibly newbtown. But this, just no.
VOTE: Shadpearl

[Ausuka]

OMGUS as "voting someone who voted you" is pretty nonsensical. If you vote for someone just because they voted for you, that's OMGUS. If you vote someone because their vote on you was scummy or vote someone who voted for you for reasons unrelated to their vote, that's totally okay.

@Taly; I already said that I now think Creature is town. What's happened since then only makes me more sure of that.

139 automatically makes me very suspicious of Paradox but what Shadpearl did is even worse.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

This wagon has more momentum than Shadpearl and 139 is still really, really, really, bad.

[Ausuka]

There are way too many scummy players.

Maybe because only brass hydra and I are doing a decent number of posts.

You know what, fine. I was trying to condense my posts into one larger post because I thought it would better for the other players. I was clearly wrong since I've already been called "flying under the radar" and now this.

[Ausuka]

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to alignment?

[Ausuka]

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

Yeah and this isn't even all the players he's scumread. Anen is almost certainly town for this. Scum probably doesn't come in townreading the current wagon and then firing shots at everyone else.

[Ausuka]

Here what I'm getting is a lot of people jumping on me at once, which seems extremely opportunistic.

If you want anyone to unvote you, you're gonna have to do a LOT better than this.

[Ausuka]

This seems like someone trying to appear town on an easy meta read.

How does it?

[Ausuka]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Lalendra!scum comes into the thread and says something verifiably false?

[Ausuka]

No, because I kinda hate this game right now.

One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum.

How did you reach that conclusion, detective?

Can you answer this please.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Unvote: Creature
Vote: Almost50

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

I agree with this logic -and I'm willing to put Almost50 on the chopping block to try it.

Alright so I want to point out in more depth why this post is really, really bad.
I mean, 139 is bad enough on its own. He just lists three pretty widely scumread players and says "one of these are scum." There's nothing that would indicate this is true. Obviously it has to do with A50 scumreading Creature and doom, but like there's no reason that can't be TvT. It feels like lining up lynches on the arguing townies while sitting back and laughing.

And then you have 142, which

agrees

with this "logic" (there is no logic in 139, btw) and then says he is willing to ACTUALLY LYNCH A50 on the premise that if he is town then he attacked scum.

Shadpearl's comment on A50 being scum because he is pushing aggressively also makes pretty much 0 sense to me.

[Ausuka]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

[Ausuka]

@Taly; I think that post is null.

[Ausuka]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

I can see how I’ve ended up in that pile on your observation that the Lal mistake might be too obvious. I’d have to think it through a bit more but I had it in my mind that it was something if no one checked between the post and Creature coming back it might be incontestable

But you have a point it might have been too obvious

Nah, that's not scummy. Mostly I just gutread you as scum, it feels like you're being too appeasing.

[Ausuka]

Official Vote Count 1.4

Almost50 (6) - doomfeathers, Sando, TheGoldenParadox, Shadpearl, Lalendra, texcat
TheGoldenParadox (5) - JaydragonKing,

Kopherald, Ausuka, Creature, Taly

Shadpearl (2) - havingfitz, Aneninen
doomfeathers (1) - Almost50
Lalendra (1) - profii

Not Voting (1) - JimmyUrineMoneyShot

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Notes: havingfitz is V/LA until March 13

(expired on 2018-03-19 22:00:00)

I like 4/5 players on the Paradox wagon (counting myself) and it makes me feel better about A50. There are scum on his wagon, probably multiple.

[Ausuka]

The longer Paradox takes to explain 139 the more I scumread him.

[Ausuka]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature

Candidates For Promotion

Lalendra, Aneninen, havingfitz, Kopherald, Taly

Watchlist For Meaniness

Sando, Almost50, JayDragonKing, doomfeathers, texcat, blockcandy, TheGoldenParadox

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

profii, Shadpearl

but the vote on Paradox stays until he stops complaining about the game and starts doing actual things, like explaining 139.

Is anyone here?

I can see how I’ve ended up in that pile on your observation that the Lal mistake might be too obvious. I’d have to think it through a bit more but I had it in my mind that it was something if no one checked between the post and Creature coming back it might be incontestable

But you have a point it might have been too obvious

Nah, that's not scummy. Mostly I just gutread you as scum, it feels like you're being too appeasing.

im working on not getting into 1v1s - they keep ending up being TvT so figures but I’ll move on...

Okay I guess that makes sense? Although I will say that it's probably a much better idea to try to improve your scumhunting than to avoid confrontations completely

[Ausuka]

You seem to care about this topic a lot.
Which means, GoldenParadox made a lucky guess here.

This is bad. Really bad. Doomfeathers wasn't even focused on 139. If this is your logic you're better off voting me.

[Ausuka]

We shouldn't take "information" into account when we lynch. ALL lynches give us information.

[Ausuka]

I'd support a wagon on Jaydragon.

Same here.

@Creature. Do you like being indy?

What?

He's asking if you like playing as third party/SK.

[Ausuka]

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

[Ausuka]

@profii: If you would be so kind to vote me I will hammer myself. Thank you.

Don't be bad. If you die today nobody is going to scumread Doom for it. Vote Paradox.

[Ausuka]

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

All righty, then. That's significant. If he is scum, though, why won't he respond? What's the most likely explanation for apparently completely abandoning a game?

Scum wanting to watch A50 or someone get lynched and lurk by it.
Like, I know lurking isn't seen as a scumtell on this site really. But in my experience there are almost ALWAYS scum in the lurkers, multiple. And then people refuse to lynch them because "it won't give enough information" or "we don't have enough evidence."
And it's not like it's impossible to distinguish between lurkers, either. blockcandy didn't post/JUMS recently came in. But at least he's trying. Havingfitz is at least trying to take stances, and he's V/LA over weekends which explains his absence. Paradox just isn't even TRYING at this point. And if he's sick of mafia and has no motivation, why does he sign up for more and more games? He's just scum. If town was unmotivated, they would make an attempt to post some content (such as explaining 139), or they would replace out. These are the only things that make sense to do. Paradox does neither of these things. He continues to refuse to post ANYTHING while STILL signing himself up for more and more games for him to post in.

Paradox is scum this game, period.

[Ausuka]

Deciding to do something against my usual playstyle by being in the background and see how it works out, Creature. It worked out for you so many times, right?

Yeah, you die D2.

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
Paradox mentioned he was overgamed outside this game so I'm probably less convinced. I'll still probably end up voting Paradox slot but I do at least want to give the replacement a chance.

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
Paradox mentioned he was overgamed outside this game

(queue thread, not ongoing games)

[Ausuka]

Deciding to do something against my usual playstyle by being in the background and see how it works out, Creature. It worked out for you so many times, right?

Yeah, you die D2.

Why?

He's being completely useless on purpose and I don't like that.

[Ausuka]

He's being completely useless on purpose and I don't like that.

I haven't been too useful either.
Shall I die on Day2 too or shall I wash the dishes instead?

There is a very obvious difference between the content you have produced compared to JDK.
But sure, you can die on D1 instead if you want

[Ausuka]

The doctor claim thing is completely uninteresting.

[Ausuka]

There is a very obvious difference between the content you have produced compared to JDK.

How can you define the difference? I'm curious.

You definitely tried to give content (and have, although that's pretty irrelevant when it comes to alignment, because giving content is obviously something either alignment will usually do.) JDK gave like 1 post 152 with strong content for most of the day.

Although JDK has been doing a lot more recently so this probably doesn't reply anymore.

If there are no replacements willing to come in for Paradox, I'm okay with just lynching that slot.

[Ausuka]

There is a very obvious difference between the content you have produced compared to JDK.

How can you define the difference? I'm curious.

You definitely tried to give content (and have, although that's pretty irrelevant when it comes to alignment, because giving content is obviously something either alignment will usually do.) JDK gave like 1 post 152 with strong content for most of the day.

Although JDK has been doing a lot more recently so this probably doesn't

apply

anymore.

If there are no replacements willing to come in for Paradox, I'm okay with just lynching that slot.

sorry, made a typo.

[Ausuka]

Actually, I’m going to straight up claim. I’m one of the doctors.

Yay, more softclaims! Just what this game needed

[Ausuka]

A50-Wagon-Scumpool: {Sando, Shadpearl, Lalendra, texcat}

Paradox-Wagon-Scumpool: {Jay, Kopherald, Ausuka, Taly, texcat}

You know, that's an impressively long way of saying not much at all.

[Ausuka]

Flavor leaf is Boonskiies, anen.

Tbh I'd probably lynch Shadpearl.

[Ausuka]

(this post contained a FL vote but Anen beat me to it so I guess for now I'll wait)

pedit: You asked what Boonskiies had to do with the game.

[Ausuka]

Yay, more softclaims! Just what this game needed

There was a hard claim, too. I wasn't buying it, though.

Every Boon claim is a soft claim.

[Ausuka]

Intent to hammer Flavour Leaf

pedit: Jimmy can you explain those reads please? Especially the Mathdino one.

[Ausuka]

Let's just, like, not discuss PRs. We don't need to leash the tracker, and we don't need a plan. And IMO doc claims only muddy the water at this point.

[Ausuka]

Hi.

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

You're only happy to see Jay gone because of no contribution to the game? That's just strange, Taly. Strange indeed.

^This seems like a scum point to push.

[Ausuka]

So there had to be at least one scum on that wagon

Why's that? There didn't even have to be 1. Now that JDK's flipped scum the "there's another scum on FL" line seems really strange.

So Shad and ausuka, is there a reason you didn't vote?

Yeah, because you stole my hammer.

[Ausuka]

Shad+Jimmy

Yeah, that's where I'm at rn.
VOTE: Shadpearl

[Ausuka]

Nope.

Nope, I'm sorry. I was right and nothing will ruin that for me, lmao. Check back when I'm wrong later in the game.

This is bad too. He seems to be trying to get towncred for not voting FL which is Especially since he never really opposed the TGP wagon.

[Ausuka]

But maybe I'm wrong about Creature. Creature, are you the SK?

I just find it weird that you specifically asked for Serial Killer instead of just Scum. Almost like you only have to find the Serial Killer since he's against you, but not the Mafia.

Word games are fun.

Anen was already town but Anen is double town for this.

[Ausuka]

"Now remember kids, that Jay character is a suspicious individual. Always watch his movements closely, alright?"
"Great job kids, now excuse me while I ride the Flavor train for town credibility unnoticed."

"Jay is conf!town because he TOTALLY lead the TGP push without twitching. Ignore he did jackshit for like five days and shitposted continuously."
"DO NOT BLOODY META ME... EVER! I DO NOT HAVE A BLOODY META THAT I ADHERE TO."

"Yeah I got three posts to my name and have barely contributed. Problem?"

Current highlighted players of interest.

I think it's pretty likely that at least one of these players flip scum tbh. And considering how JDK voteparked Almost for literally no reason (and doc-claim shenanigans w/e) it probably isn't him.

... yeah, fair warning too everyone, with how Jimmy here has been I'm not trusting him at ALL. Just getting that out there?

I don't like this either.

[Ausuka]

sucks to be Mathdino I guess?

shadpearl is town for this so

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

Ausuka, Shadpearl, Mathdino, Creture, Aneninen

Almost50, Taly

Sando, profii, havingfitz, texcat, Kopherald

JimmyUrineMoneyShot

I'm probably gonna try to reread the oranges because I need to town some of them.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Jimmy

[Ausuka]

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

This post makes like 0 sense to me. Taly is scum because he doesn't think doom or A50 is scum anymore on d2?

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
I get the feeling that I'm wrong about Jimmy and there's probably 2-3 scum in my orange zone.

[Ausuka]

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

[Ausuka]

that's actually quite possibly the worst vote I've seen this game

[Ausuka]

Are people voting Jimmy because he hammered without giving a warning? I don't think that's scummy if so. I had already given intent; all scum!Jimmy does there is draw attention to himself.

To me Taly is just obvtowning. I think there's at least one scum in {profii, Sando} and more than anything I'm thinking profii just doesn't flip town here.

can you explain why Taly might have gone from scum reading A50 to not doing so over the course of the flip into day 2 - admittedly I haven't been paying that much attention to this game during the enforced break?

I might have missed that.

Obviously if Taly wants to explain that, then great but I'm not sure how the A50 death clears them right now

There are so many reasons to change your read on someone. Anything could have caused Taly to change his vote. Maybe he thinks the claim is towny, maybe he reconsidered the read.

[Ausuka]

Jimmy if you're gonna keep making posts like that I'm going to start scumreading you again.

[Ausuka]

shadpearl is town for this so

how?

Replacing Mathdino.
Please do not speculate on the events which led to it.

[Ausuka]

Jimmy what are your reads?

[Ausuka]

Now, let me know if you have any other solid reads. My scum pool is in profii/Anen/Shad/fitz/Jimmy/texcat/Creature (in no particular order), but I'm afraid I'm unable to come up with a couple who look more likely to be scum with Jay.

Anen, Creature and Shadpearl just never flip scum here. {Fitz, jimmy, texcat} are meh and need to start giving more content, sure. profii I think is real scum.

HOWEVER, and on an

individual level

, I think it more likely that there's scum in Anen/fitz, and here is why:

Anen, Creature AND Jay were all in a game with me and Dino recently (this one) where I was a VT and tried to bait the NK by pretending to be a PR (but I never claimed).

Jay -on the other hand- was also a VT who went too far as to actually claim and get CC'd (i.e. he drew the PR out to CC him).

If you notice the conversation between me and Jay after I claimed here I told him something like "this is how you do it as town.. you claim something that cannot be CC'd so as not to out the real PRs".

My theory thus is that the scum team is under the impression I'm fake claiming to get them to shoot me, and are hopeful they can shoot the other doctors so that they can lynch me without having to waste a bullet on me.

So, I would of course suspect Jay to have gone down that route and told his teammates, but seeing as he didn't see it in the first time (in the linked game) coupled with me actually outright claiming here rather than crumbing and hinting .. let's just say I'm not too confident it was Jay who directed the NK off me. I think it was something more perceptive, and that would be Annen (who was scum in that game) or Creature (who was town in that game).

???
I mean dude you literally said you could just be VT. This means nothing w/ Anen/Creature (fitz? idk who you're referring to, you use them both)

So, what's your read in Annen?

Anen is locktown for me. He's seemed genuine the whole game in my interactions with him, and 263 is never a scum/scum interaction IMO.

[Ausuka]

I mean, like, profii has been totally off the entire game tonally. Looking back 48 is very LAMIST and a lot of his ISO feels that way- fencesitty but a bit LAMIST at the same time. Especially the part where he votes FL "for pressure" and then unvotes to "be a team player" which is
But I think the main solid thing about him is his 791 where he sets up a vote for Taly because Taly changed his scumreads. Like no matter how you try and spin it, that's exactly what he's doing and I think it's really scummy.
I mean, look at this;

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

He's scumreading Taly because Taly is no longer pushing on doom/A50 slots after he pushed them on d1. Like let's be real here- is that more likely to be a real thought coming from a townie, or is it more likely to be a scum fabrication of scumhunting?

Also I haven't done this yet, so;
VOTE: profii

[Ausuka]

I'm not going to sit here and try to find falsehoods in Almost50's claim RIGHT after we've lost, both our backup doc, and 1 doc. Especially since BOTH the SK and scum are alive. It's only D2.

Furthermore, I already stated that I'm waiting for a Mathdino replacement... what's the point in pushing a slot without anybody there?

Plus, my top scumread for the majority of D1 flipped doc. Why is it odd to rethink my reads?

[Ausuka]

There's no reason to ask me that question- if you want the actual motivation just ask Taly.

[Ausuka]

To be clear I agree that people can change their reads as much as they like, it's how the game works

When I ask why do you (Ausuka) think they (Taly) did that and the answer is essentially "I'm (Ausuka) not going to speculate on that"

That's when the game stops working. Interpretations help us progress

What? I seriously feel like I'm missing some sort of point here with you. Why do I need to interpret what Taly is saying when I can just read what Taly is actually saying was the reason?

[Ausuka]

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot
I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

[Ausuka]

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

[Ausuka]

To be clear I agree that people can change their reads as much as they like, it's how the game works

When I ask why do you (Ausuka) think they (Taly) did that and the answer is essentially "I'm (Ausuka) not going to speculate on that"

That's when the game stops working. Interpretations help us progress

What? I seriously feel like I'm missing some sort of point here with you. Why do I need to interpret what Taly is saying when I can just read what Taly is actually saying was the reason?

everybody lies

or at least the scum do, so i suppose you are saying you think taly is just telling the truth, thats fine

Of course everyone could be lying! But we have to find who is more likely to be lying, and Taly changing a read in no way makes him more likely to be lying.

[Ausuka]

Either busy IRL or scum.

[Ausuka]

Yeah. Technically this is my new main but whatever.

[Ausuka]

Yeah, Open 693. He replaced in as town in a very similar position to this game, and gave actual, solid opinions with reasoning.

[Ausuka]

quote="In post 217, Ausuka"]

There are way too many scummy players.

Maybe because only brass hydra and I are doing a decent number of posts.

You know what, fine. I was trying to condense my posts into one larger post because I thought it would better for the other players. I was clearly wrong since I've already been called "flying under the radar" and now this.[/quote]
A lot of huffing and puffing here. What gives? [/quote]
I was annoyed because I felt like I was being accused of lurking even after I gave a lot of content.

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to
alignment?

Huh? You seemed to believe it earlier regarding my predecessor.[/quote]
Effort to look town =/= effort you put into the game overall.

[Ausuka]

There are way too many scummy players.

Maybe because only brass hydra and I are doing a decent number of posts.

You know what, fine. I was trying to condense my posts into one larger post because I thought it would better for the other players. I was clearly wrong since I've already been called "flying under the radar" and now this.

A lot of huffing and puffing here. What gives?

I was annoyed because I felt like I was being accused of lurking even after I gave a lot of content.

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to
alignment?

Huh? You seemed to believe it earlier regarding my predecessor.

Effort to look town =/= effort you put into the game overall.

I think this is correct. I hate formatting on mobile.

[Ausuka]

There are way too many scummy players.

Maybe because only brass hydra and I are doing a decent number of posts.

You know what, fine. I was trying to condense my posts into one larger post because I thought it would better for the other players. I was clearly wrong since I've already been called "flying under the radar" and now this.

A lot of huffing and puffing here. What gives?

I was annoyed because I felt like I was being accused of lurking even after I gave a lot of content.

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to
alignment?

Huh? You seemed to believe it earlier regarding my predecessor.

Effort to look town =/= effort you put into the game overall.

I think this is correct. I hate formatting on mobile.

[Ausuka]

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

What about

Creature

and

Fitz

? I get that they both can be busy, but I don't view their posts as content-heavy either.

Creature has more posts than anyone else this game. He's been less active recently but meh. His posts might not have a lot of content individually but they do have a lot when you put them all together considering how often he can post.

I feel like there's a definite distinction between fitz's play and Jimmy's play. Fitz hasn't been here and he's been on VLA a lot iirc. Jimmy's been here but his posts are pretty empty and useless.

[Ausuka]

Creature too, but I don't remember his style much.

LOL. You must not have played with Creature then.

VOTE: Aneninen who had me fooled last game

She may be cute, but I don't think that's a very good reason to follow her.

VOTE: Jaydragon

Texcat's first 2 votes. Possible scum team?

I'm after half of the playerlist. Or more. Why is everyone so interested in my Texcat-read?

Why shouldn't we be interested in a read you claim to have?

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

But you do have a point seeing as texcat wasn't the only player you'd scumread.

Like these posts are the epitome of useless and hedgy. What do they bring to the table? Nothing.

I'm tired right now so I'll respond to the rest tomorrow morning.

[Ausuka]

I think Ausuka is town as well - i dont see why it's a problem to be more interested in peoples interpretations of other players motivations, rather than asking people directly - how can we trust anyones word pre-conf-towning - if they are just lying, they will just continue, i'm far more interested in what someone thinks someone else might be up to, it's harder to come up with a rationale for someone else thats made up than make up your own story. But anyway, I get that Ausuka is taking Taly's word for recent posts... so moving on...

But like I'm not just "taking someone's word for it" I'm just saying that we're not going to go anywhere by looking at something and saying "I think we should look very closely at this minor thing because reasons." You need a reason why you think it's a lie. All Taly did was change his read on A50 after the Paradox flip. What I've been saying is you looking at that and saying "This thing is probably a lie" (even though there's no reason to believe that) doesn't seem real.

[Ausuka]

I do have a townread on Taly but it's not based on something really strong. He just seems town to me.

[Ausuka]

Meh. I'll vote profii if it comes to it but I feel like Jimmy is intentionally trying to be useless here. Profii could be town with a playstyle that's hard to understand, but I see jimmy as a lot less likely to be that way.

[Ausuka]

I'm starting to feel like profii is town here.

[Ausuka]

Sorry, I missed this originally.

Meh. I'll vote profii if it comes to it but I feel like Jimmy is intentionally trying to be useless here. Profii could be town with a playstyle that's hard to understand, but I see jimmy as a lot less likely to be that way.

Can you elaborate on what makes you view

profii

to be that way?

profii scumread you because he found your read change on a50/doom scummy. I didn't understand it at the time and tbh I still find it hard to understand now but I think I do distinctly remember playing games in 2016 when players called out 180s as scummy. I still think they're really not but I do feel like profii being town is pretty viable. Especially seeing as he's currently being the counterwagon to Jimmy who is scummier.

[Ausuka]

Especially seeing as he's currently being the counterwagon to Jimmy who is scummier.

Why is Jimmy scummier than profii?

Because considering my thoughts on both of them, which I have outlined in the thread, I think the case for Jimmy is a lot stronger than the one on profii.

Have you ever seen a game where counterwagons were both on scum?

I don't think so, actually. I suppose it's possible but I think it's definitely a lot more likely that a wagon that pops up while a pretty much indefensible scum is being wagoned is on town, not scum.

[Ausuka]

Jimmy hasn't posted for six days now and this is beginning to get ridiculous. If we can't get an extension to sort the replacement I'd seriously consider just hammering him without a claim.

[Ausuka]

omg i'm not even sure what to say to this

[Ausuka]

I'm probably reserving judgement on Shadpearl's hammer until Jimmy flips, although I'm definitely copying the first part of that post for literally every hammer I do in the future.

[Ausuka]

But, I don't know if I should laugh or cry

This is literally the first thing that went through my head when I saw the hammer tbh

[Ausuka]

VOTE: kopherald

[Ausuka]

VOTE: kopherald

This seems a little out of the blue. Reasons?

I don't really have any. Mostly just my gut saying this is most likely to not be genuine. I'm conditioned to marathon play right now

[Ausuka]

Seems I need to prod dodge.

I'm looking through Ausuka's ISO... Not really liking what I'm seeing. Looking lots at just pure activity levels for TGP yesterday. Nothing really since that point, though. Plus, I think I see some distancing tried from Jay during Day 1 a few times. Day 2 is not moving so fast, so I'm voting my hot read here.

VOTE: Ausuka

-Brass

VOTE: Havingfitz

I just don't like this slot, I know he's been V/LA a lot on day one, but since he's come back, he's done very little.

His vote on Jimmy is based on that hammer, and very little else. He hasn't taken a much of a stance in the time he's been here, and it's giving me a gut feeling that he isn't town.

I played with him in another game when he was the SK, and he offered a lot more.

- Kop

So, I'm looking and I know lurking is scum!Creature's meta for Day 1. Is anyone familiar with Creature meta well enough to know what Day 2 lurking means because I am not?

Tonight was date night for me and the fiance but I don't want to be prodded, so thoughts on recent activity without going too in depth because I want to go to bed soon.

I get the profii push, I could get behind it. I feel like the voting Texcat for being on wagons yesterday is out of character for him as well.

I still want to leave a full read of havingfitz for Kop to do when he returns, but, I definitely agree with LUV's 975 and 977 I don't have much experience here, but fitz is really just being a non factor in this game. I don't see him making any real reads, I don't see much activity from him. Also, 972 is super weird, like fitz is casing himself.

JimmyDisgustingName is absent, and I still do not see anything even resembling scum hunting from the slot, though, that seems to be because he hasn't posted in over 5 days. I don't know that this is AI, exactly, but this is not great.

I'm liking LUV, he has insight, he's pushing people, engaging in the limited discussions of the game.

The rest of you are still pretty cool. That being said, since I am the one here, and Kop is not.

VOTE: Profii since he pretty much says he'll only be useful if we vote him, I'd like him to put up or shut up.

-Brass

Where did I say I’d be useful if you vote for me?

3 - will re read tomorrow, not really bothered right now - I know I’m play a weird game and it rubs people up the wrong way so Dunno - I generally only start caring about people voting me when it is game losing

I now realize I misread the second quote here. My apologies for that.

VOTE: Jimmy

He needs to be hanged or replaced, if the mod checks the thread again.

-Brass

[Ausuka]

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: kopherald

This seems a little out of the blue. Reasons?

I don't really have any. Mostly just my gut saying this is most likely to not be genuine. I'm conditioned to marathon play right now

So your just basing your feelings purely by gut, rather than actually ask us questions?

The vote against you, I haven't really spoken to the Brass head about that, so that answer will have to come from him.

I've been pretty much in my mind wanting to lynch Fitz, I wasn't interested in any other during the previous day, and I wasn't around when Jimmy was lynched.


- Kop

Yeah and what am I supposed to ask you? "Why can't you just be more genuine?"

[Ausuka]

You're not supposed to. That's what I was saying.
I guess the closest thing I can say to what you want is that the way you jumped on Fitz then profii then Jimmy and now Fitz again is really gross. The way Brass' read on me was really bad too; it feels like you were testing the waters, and when everyone rejected it you just completely turned your back on it, saying "Oh I was talked out of it."

[Ausuka]

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

Do you town read Fitz? Why do you believe it's a mislynch?

- Kop

The way the wagon suddenly built up, basically just because he's been inactive, is really gross.

[Ausuka]

It wouldn't be AI if Fitz was a wagon on a real scummy player. But he's a boring lurker wagon and on those progress is generally very slow, especially on scum lurkers. I think he's been identified as a possible mislynch for today.

[Ausuka]

What do you think of kopherald?

[Ausuka]

I mean havingfitz has lurked and that's pretty bad but then again scum likely wagoned Paradox and Jimmy for the same reasons and the last thing I want is for this game to stay the same.
I think kopherald slot is being actively opportunistic here lately and I also think anyone who sees their ISO should see what I mean by this as well.

[Ausuka]

This is literally the first time I've voted a gutread the whole game

What are you on about

[Ausuka]

Not to mention, I'm the only one even voting you.
I have no idea how a player who is actually reading the thread posts 1087.

[Ausuka]

Spoiler: Posts that have analysis and are definitely nowhere near what Kopherald is saying

Good feelings about doomfeathers; it seems like he is being proactive town by getting things going, asking probing questions and trying to get us out of RVS as quickly as possible.

Yeah I definitely have to disagree with that. What he's done so far seems like he's trying way too hard to look like town, especially this;

Wot, no votes? We've got to start some dialogue so we can find scum. Votes start wagons, wagons start discussions, and discussions breed reactions. That's just how things work.

I'm not sure why town!doomfeathers thinks he has to introduce the concept of RVS to everyone on post 6.

VOTE: Unvote: Creature
Vote: Almost50

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

I agree with this logic -and I'm willing to put Almost50 on the chopping block to try it.

Alright so I want to point out in more depth why this post is really, really bad.
I mean, 139 is bad enough on its own. He just lists three pretty widely scumread players and says "one of these are scum." There's nothing that would indicate this is true. Obviously it has to do with A50 scumreading Creature and doom, but like there's no reason that can't be TvT. It feels like lining up lynches on the arguing townies while sitting back and laughing.

And then you have 142, which

agrees

with this "logic" (there is no logic in 139, btw) and then says he is willing to ACTUALLY LYNCH A50 on the premise that if he is town then he attacked scum.

Shadpearl's comment on A50 being scum because he is pushing aggressively also makes pretty much 0 sense to me.

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

All righty, then. That's significant. If he is scum, though, why won't he respond? What's the most likely explanation for apparently completely abandoning a game?

Scum wanting to watch A50 or someone get lynched and lurk by it.
Like, I know lurking isn't seen as a scumtell on this site really. But in my experience there are almost ALWAYS scum in the lurkers, multiple. And then people refuse to lynch them because "it won't give enough information" or "we don't have enough evidence."
And it's not like it's impossible to distinguish between lurkers, either. blockcandy didn't post/JUMS recently came in. But at least he's trying. Havingfitz is at least trying to take stances, and he's V/LA over weekends which explains his absence. Paradox just isn't even TRYING at this point. And if he's sick of mafia and has no motivation, why does he sign up for more and more games? He's just scum. If town was unmotivated, they would make an attempt to post some content (such as explaining 139), or they would replace out. These are the only things that make sense to do. Paradox does neither of these things. He continues to refuse to post ANYTHING while STILL signing himself up for more and more games for him to post in.

Paradox is scum this game, period.

There is a very obvious difference between the content you have produced compared to JDK.

How can you define the difference? I'm curious.

You definitely tried to give content (and have, although that's pretty irrelevant when it comes to alignment, because giving content is obviously something either alignment will usually do.) JDK gave like 1 post 152 with strong content for most of the day.

Although JDK has been doing a lot more recently so this probably doesn't reply anymore.

If there are no replacements willing to come in for Paradox, I'm okay with just lynching that slot.

Nope.

Nope, I'm sorry. I was right and nothing will ruin that for me, lmao. Check back when I'm wrong later in the game.

This is bad too. He seems to be trying to get towncred for not voting FL which is Especially since he never really opposed the TGP wagon.

I mean, like, profii has been totally off the entire game tonally. Looking back 48 is very LAMIST and a lot of his ISO feels that way- fencesitty but a bit LAMIST at the same time. Especially the part where he votes FL "for pressure" and then unvotes to "be a team player" which is
But I think the main solid thing about him is his 791 where he sets up a vote for Taly because Taly changed his scumreads. Like no matter how you try and spin it, that's exactly what he's doing and I think it's really scummy.
I mean, look at this;

Taly, I'll be talking to you following the new math player or your ISO post on that slot

You've spent a lot of time talking about the 1v1 between Doom/A50 but have managed to temp. Retreat on math and obviously the doc claim for A50

Seems convienient - especially after all the stuff you posted about you being the mislynch- you'll have to forgive me if I said it comes across a bit LAMIST

He's scumreading Taly because Taly is no longer pushing on doom/A50 slots after he pushed them on d1. Like let's be real here- is that more likely to be a real thought coming from a townie, or is it more likely to be a scum fabrication of scumhunting?

Also I haven't done this yet, so;
VOTE: profii

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot
I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

What about

Creature

and

Fitz

? I get that they both can be busy, but I don't view their posts as content-heavy either.

Creature has more posts than anyone else this game. He's been less active recently but meh. His posts might not have a lot of content individually but they do have a lot when you put them all together considering how often he can post.

I feel like there's a definite distinction between fitz's play and Jimmy's play. Fitz hasn't been here and he's been on VLA a lot iirc. Jimmy's been here but his posts are pretty empty and useless.

Creature too, but I don't remember his style much.

LOL. You must not have played with Creature then.

VOTE: Aneninen who had me fooled last game

She may be cute, but I don't think that's a very good reason to follow her.

VOTE: Jaydragon

Texcat's first 2 votes. Possible scum team?

I'm after half of the playerlist. Or more. Why is everyone so interested in my Texcat-read?

Why shouldn't we be interested in a read you claim to have?

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

But you do have a point seeing as texcat wasn't the only player you'd scumread.

Like these posts are the epitome of useless and hedgy. What do they bring to the table? Nothing.

I'm tired right now so I'll respond to the rest tomorrow morning.

Sorry, I missed this originally.

Meh. I'll vote profii if it comes to it but I feel like Jimmy is intentionally trying to be useless here. Profii could be town with a playstyle that's hard to understand, but I see jimmy as a lot less likely to be that way.

Can you elaborate on what makes you view

profii

to be that way?

profii scumread you because he found your read change on a50/doom scummy. I didn't understand it at the time and tbh I still find it hard to understand now but I think I do distinctly remember playing games in 2016 when players called out 180s as scummy. I still think they're really not but I do feel like profii being town is pretty viable. Especially seeing as he's currently being the counterwagon to Jimmy who is scummier.

There are probably more I could include but meh.

[Ausuka]

but this is the first time I have seen any reasoning at all for your votes

No.

This is scum.

[Ausuka]

No we're not lynching shadpearl.

[Ausuka]

Read the start of page 32 again, but, like, slower this time.

[Ausuka]

Wait no I guess shadpearl is scum I didn't see the tracker claim. Ok.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Shadpearl
Obvious play is to lynch this today and if he flips town we go for profii tomorrow.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Shadpearl
Obvious play is to lynch this today and if he flips town we go for profii tomorrow.

Congrats on ignoring everything that's been said...great contribution.

There's a guilty with no CC. We lynch the guilty. It's not a revolutionary concept.

[Ausuka]

Shadpearl has claimed VT, there is no tracker counterclaim, and we're not letting go of scum because they could potentially be a SK.

[Ausuka]

No, I don't think you guys get it. Shadpearl has to be scum. There is no tracker CC.

[Ausuka]

Tracker dying is very negligible and it doesn't really matter. Compared to a scum dying and preventing a mislynch, CCing is always the correct play for the tracker. Like I don't think I've ever seen a game where people argue a PR shouldn't CC a fakeclaim, especially one like a Tracker.

[Ausuka]

The obvious counter thought to that is the doctor can’t protect me so why out yourself as a tracker....

To lynch scum, instead of mislynching??????

[Ausuka]

If the tracker thinks they're more important than a correct lynch, which they are most certainly not, that's on them. I'm not ever moving my vote unless a CC happens.

[Ausuka]

Yeah so we could rely on scum playing how they're expected to and get scum tomorrow while we probably mislynch today, or we could get scum today and potentially reduce the amount of nightkills we have to deal with tonight. Just lynching the guilty and then going back to a regularly scheduled program of scumhunting is the best play here IMO. No need to play games with the SK.

[Ausuka]

Yeah so we could rely on scum playing how they're expected to and get scum tomorrow while we probably mislynch today, or we could get scum today and potentially reduce the amount of nightkills we have to deal with tonight. Just lynching the guilty and then going back to a regularly scheduled program of scumhunting is the best play here IMO. No need to play games with the SK.

It's funny that you can't actually articulate why I'm wrong, just gonna go with "nah, CC or I'm parked here"

Players without a town wincon will not listen to do what town wants them to do, and will actively manipulate the "plan" that takes all their nightkills into account if they can. Whichever one of {profii, Shadpearl} is scum won't want to clean it up, and the other faction probably benefits from it too. Any plan that relies on antitown factions is a bad idea.

If we don't flip Shadpearl now, there is still uncertainty, and we lynch based on a lot less information, with one more scum alive. They can still manipulate the lynch by pushing associatives from the other in the 1v1, and they can still plant associatives in our mind. Like, there's a reason why lynching in 1v1s is standard.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Shadpearl

What that actual F#%K! Not another Korina!!

OK.. fine...

VOTE: ptofii

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
Actually yeah shadpearl is right. Profii's claim doesn't really align with logic. Still think the tracker should just CC though so we don't risk a mislynch- tracker is a pretty bad PR. Last doc can be on tracker anyway which gives them a chance of survival. Maybe we should just lynch profii anyway, idk. Still not lynching outside those two though.

[Ausuka]

Actually nah if profii doesn't explain his post on Jimmy adequately I think we can just lynch him without a CC. We should still wait for that though, we've got plenty of time.

[Ausuka]

Meh, if I was mafia with profii I probably wouldn't have changed my mind there. I don't mind being tracked though so whatever.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: profii
Sorry if you're town profii but I can't really see past the fact that you said your inno is "very likely to flip scum" and the fact that you opened today with votes on havingfitz and Taly. Your play isn't consistent with the results you claimed.

[Ausuka]

express intent

since when do people express intent in open 712

[Ausuka]

I think lynching in {Shadpearl, profii} is definitely optimal because there is definitely at least 1 scum in {Shadpearl, profii}- if one of them is SK mafia don't want to resolve it, and if one is mafia the SK probably likes the distraction and won't resolve it either. Tracker isn't a strong PR and if we have 50% chance of lynching scum (speaking mathematically, but due to profii's play around his results the probability is actually a lot higher than that.) We, as a town, need to be resolving issues rather than hoping the mafia does it for us. And I think we can do that by lynching profii today and probably seeing a scumflip.

[Ausuka]

He claimed to have an inno on Jimmy and he said Jimmy was "very likely scum." He also claims to have a guilty on shadpearl and he started the day voting havingfitz and then Taly.

[Ausuka]

Oh yeah he claimed tracker.

[Ausuka]

Meh, if I was mafia with profii I probably wouldn't have changed my mind there. I don't mind being tracked though so whatever.

Other than yourself(?), do you think there's any other useful candidate in tracking?

Well yeah, almost everyone is a useful track at this point (apart from Shadpearl lol) assuming profii flips scum. The situation is pretty much the same, whoever you track. Leashing the Tracker is obviously a bad move because Mafia could just send their other member to do the kill; it only clears someone from being SK, which is pretty weak considering 2/3 scum are mafia.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Kopherald
I liked this vote yesterday and I like it again today. Taly's analysis is good.

[Ausuka]

{Ausuka, Almost50, Shadpearl, Taly}- very much doubt there are scum in here
{texcat, Something_Smart}- maybe, but probably not
{havingfitz, Kopherald}- should be the lynchpool, in my opinion.

[Ausuka]

@Taly; if you're asking who I think is SK and who is mafia, it doesn't really matter at this point; they're basically equivalent. Kopherald slot has been scummy IMO and fitz has been a massive lurksack, plus I get townvibes from the other players. My vote's on Kopherald, and right now, it looks like that's where I'm going to keep it until the day ends.

[Ausuka]

only the stuff I said d2; the votehopping, the fact they tried to discredit me d2 in a nonsensical way, and I don't like the tone.

[Ausuka]

sando and creature kills were probably scum hunting for the tracker.

[Ausuka]

i have been prodded!

my opinion hasn't changed since my last post and to be honest I doubt it's going to.

[Ausuka]

havingfitz is probably more scummy than texcat.

[Ausuka]

I feel like if we lynch fitz and kopherald the game is just over and we're just wasting our time right now. I'm not going to change my mind unless I see one of them flip town, full stop.

[Ausuka]

No, that makes them very likely to be town and it's likely fitz/tex imo, though I could be wrong.

[Ausuka]

That play pretty much only comes from town and I think that's what we've got to prepare for. I agree that fitz is a good lynch but we aren't auto lynching anyone, at least if I live.

[Ausuka]

At least shadpearl technically survived.

GG, and well done to the mafia (and texcat, who made it very far as the SK.)

[Ausuka]

Question @ Ausuka - I am fairly certain your strong ish scum read on me flipped to town after we started playing mafia month. Am I correct?

Yeah, I think that was it. I don't remember much from d2 though, a month is quite a long time