Open 757: Panic Room!

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Maadnet

Beautiful symmetry.

[rosterfoster]

Agh.

[rosterfoster]

Should it be longer?

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Ejjnami

We need to quicklynch this before it's too late!

[rosterfoster]

You really are taking the high risk gamble here!

Why let a bomb go off?

[rosterfoster]

Take a High Risk Gamble!

[rosterfoster]

I'm dissapointed that nobody else is joining us.

[rosterfoster]

Do you think he'd post more if we voted him?

Maybe it would convince him to vote you.

[rosterfoster]

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You're so devoid of warmth.

[rosterfoster]

That's a remarkably sophisticated thought process.

Pedit: Hai, can you quicklynch the bomb pls thnks.

[rosterfoster]

I'm gonna avoid voting ejjinami in case she is the bomb and the recruiter hits scum.

Something's not making me feel good about this post, but I'm not able to parse it in words.

I always feel that about Lich.

[rosterfoster]

Trying hard isn't alignment indicative.

That's not really what he said though? I feel like you just said the first word and then wanted to say something about that post.

Pedit: Same with eyes as Lich. I feel like the way they post feels scummy sometimes but it's not necessarily AI.

[rosterfoster]

I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but in essence I think he was more coming from the direction of ‘mafia doesn’t go this balls deep into the whole scum claiming thing’ which I can see as a view, although I’m not sure I agree as it has to do with the player - if I ever do meta this is one of the things to check.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Eyes

[rosterfoster]

Yeah, but then I remembered that he was actually scum in the game I was thinking about .

[rosterfoster]

It was the large normal where town got pummelled.

I have a feeling I have another game with him but I can't remember.

[rosterfoster]

Depends on the experience you have with eyes. I always feel like meta is best when you actually played the game. I may only have 1 reference point but 2 is possible.

[rosterfoster]

Oh he was scum in fire and ice too.

[rosterfoster]

He was mostly shitposting that game but got away with it. In the large normal he wasn't though, I think he just sounded scummy and got a big wagon on him which scum managed to deflect.

On a quick recap I don't see any LAMIST stuff from there though, so I don't know if that is really a scum tell.

[rosterfoster]

He was under a lot of suspicion as town in a couple of his games so I think the sounding scummy part is true (I might have gotten this from a conversation in one of my games with him). No LAMIST stuff that I can see though with either alignment, although there might be something there. I do feel like this depends heavily on the player, but we don't have a better wagon rn so I'm sticking with it.

[rosterfoster]

You are mildly devoid of warmth.

What do you think about Eyes?

[rosterfoster]

Ejinami is town-felling.

[rosterfoster]

*telling

[rosterfoster]

How is it bad posting? I have one townread so far and that’s Ejinami.

[rosterfoster]

^this.

It’s just how Lich thinks.

[rosterfoster]

Basically he takes quite a lot way too seriously. I played with him in unstable mafia - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78981

I pushed him for similar stuff (not exactly the same mind) and I don’t think this is outside of town him at all.

[rosterfoster]

He literally voted Dr Worm because Overki11 said he had a n0 guilty on him (obv a joke) and Lich was not RVSing.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Maadnet

[rosterfoster]

It was more like my reasons for soft-defending eyes were wrong.

[rosterfoster]

So no reason not to vote him.

I struggle with scum reads early on. Eyes’ response to the pressure was ok (although admittedly this was after I unvoted him).

[rosterfoster]

^Btw this is why I voted him.

[rosterfoster]

He was under a lot of suspicion as town in a couple of his games so I think the sounding scummy part is true (I might have gotten this from a conversation in one of my games with him). No LAMIST stuff that I can see though with either alignment, although there might be something there. I do feel like this depends heavily on the player, but we don't have a better wagon rn so I'm sticking with it.

This just feels like Roster trying to justify his Vote without sitting on a strong read.
What makes Eyes a better wagon over anyone else at this point?

Nothing. But wagons are good.

Now join me on this Maad wagon? <3

[rosterfoster]

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He literally voted Dr Worm because Overki11 said he had a n0 guilty on him (obv a joke) and Lich was not RVSing.

There weren't six pages of content to go after when he did this

Most of that was shitposting.

I don’t townread him, but I don’t really see a strong reason why he was a better wagon than eyes.

There are reasons for a Maad wagon though.

[rosterfoster]

Why was there a reason for eyes?

Not really but no reason to get off it.

[rosterfoster]

Maybe I’m just a reasonable person?

[rosterfoster]

Nice chat.

[rosterfoster]

TL, how can Elijami be town for claiming scum but Eyes is scum for CC’ing?

In essence I agree with Fumuki - if you want advice about how to read people, try to look for the motivations for their actions, rather than how they sound.

The person doesn’t change as town or scum, so chances are they will sound the same but act differently.

It’s a subtle distinction which I still don’t really get, but I try to look for it now.

Pedit: Flubber that’s true. I can’t stay right now but I’ll have a think about it later tonight.

[rosterfoster]

If he really had remembered that this might be eyes scum, and thought that eyes could be scum, I don`t see why he wouldn`t move over his RVS vote on Ejj to Eyes wagon or any other wagon before Ejj moved I think.

Or perhaps his vote on eyes reminded me that eyes was actually scum in the large normal?

[rosterfoster]

But yeah I have no other meta point to base eyes on. Doesn’t mean the early wagon was bad.

I was thinking about TL Flubber, and there is something in the point about him not inviting quickly. Thing is I don’t think TL ever unbelievers that the claim wasn’t a joke, so the unvote was for different reasons, so I don’t think it makes him scummy here.

I’m still comfortable on Maad.

Pedit: Yeah? Seeing Eyes’ name probably made me remember that piece of information (I thought eyes was town that game after the early wagon, which I why I had misremembered earlier).

[rosterfoster]

Eyes replaced out of that quickly.

IDK on Flubber. I played with scum him once but only really caught him via actions (others caught him though, making me jail him as last scum left).

[rosterfoster]

Winter’s Sacrifice

[rosterfoster]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78410

[rosterfoster]

Aaand I put this off until right before bed, so I'll make it brief. I really don't like 176. Even if TL always takes things too seriously, he put Eyes at L-2. It feels like something opportunistic scum would do to get an early mislynch.

VOTE: TemporalLich

This posts pings me. Like I feel he’s just trying to say something to sound like content.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Flubber[/vote[

Wheeee. I see your point. You are so hard-working senpai Fumuki <3.

Lich is such a confuzzling player to me. His last post

almost

feels like he's switching his vote because the difference with unstable was mentioned, yet I cannot shake the feeling that this is just Lich being Lich and floating towards a decent conclusion.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Flubber

[rosterfoster]

We win if we lynch the bomb today.

Pedit: Stealing my towncred

[rosterfoster]

What makes you think he’s more of a goon? The floating seems more bomb to me tbh.

[rosterfoster]

This is what threw me off.
And it comes back to why is Maad blindly following Roster who was scum for him?

Seriously? He replaced out of that early. I forgot he even played in it until Maad brought it up.

[rosterfoster]

He replaced out a month before the end of the game.

[rosterfoster]

Also I never spoke with him.

[rosterfoster]

I think I have the memory of a chicken.

The page interrupting thing has come back to me now.

I se me what you mean about the bomb, but still better to lynch someone for being scum as you said rather than possibility that they might be the bomb.

[rosterfoster]

As long as scum isn`t in the hood, and we have at least 4 town in the hood, we can even stop recruiting and mechanically solve this maybe.

Just FYI, it's a compulsory recruiter so we can't stop recruiting. I've not looked at the maths yet though but I don't think this would ever be so important.

[rosterfoster]

I think I'm starting to like my bottom 3 reads for a scum team. No I just need to go check if they had any significant interactions with each other.

I hate it when people do this. Preflip associatives are useless, but I've seen town look for it enough that I can't use it as a scumtell.

[rosterfoster]

Yes, your town-read on Flubbernugget is weak. However, why do you see this as me potentially using it as a way to hold it against you?

Anyone would agree that a case containing of 4 spoilers that only contain one-liners is weak.

He was also comparing it to past FLubber town and scum games, and that comparison made a lot of sense to me. How about you try to address the points on Flubber?

[rosterfoster]

I'm willing to vote awestfie, her ISO looks so bad it's horrible

VOTE: Lich

[rosterfoster]

Btw I feel like that is scum indicative for Lich. He was starting to actually give reasons by this point in Unstable, but here I feel like he is trying way too hard to stick to the useless/no reasons meta that people have of him, which isn’t quite the case.

[rosterfoster]

Maybe tell me which of her posts and bad and why?

[rosterfoster]

So my sudden opportunistic L-1 makes me your second highest townread?

[rosterfoster]

And you scumread Awest because she disagrees with your top town read and shares the same opinion as HRG on deepwolf?

I literally have no idea what to think about that. If you’re town Lich posting like that is just going to get you lynched over and over again. I’m going to look at unstable again but this feels entirely devoid of reasons, which wasn’t the case there.

[rosterfoster]

A quick reskim of unstable and tbh I think Lich is just scum. He was trying (albeit in a misguided way) to gamesolve there. Here hens plucking random reads from thin air, and I don’t see an evolution in his thoughts, which happened there.

[rosterfoster]

If I wanted an easy mislynch I would’ve jumped on him earlier.

I really believe this is scum Lich we’re seeing.

[rosterfoster]

Yeah, and that’s why I wasn’t voting him at first. But if you try to look at it from Lich perspective I don’t think I see any attempt to gamesolve, however flawed. This was very present in unstable and I was scumreading him there more because his arguments were flawed, which was a mistake.

Here it’s not about his arguments but his motivations.

[rosterfoster]

In what way is it gamesolving?

[rosterfoster]

I didn’t feel like that was gamesolving, not compared to unstable where he did similar cases but was also asking questions surrounding that.

[rosterfoster]

Probably not. I don’t think Lich does fustration tbh

[rosterfoster]

Ugh Jingle I’m voting Lich.

[rosterfoster]

Yes I’m a bit quick on the trigger

[rosterfoster]

Didn’t you already decide?

[rosterfoster]

Thing is I feel TL has drifted pretty far from town him this game. It feels like an imitation of his town game, which, y’know, leads to scum.

[rosterfoster]

The thing is he’s not done particularly much, so the only thing I can base it off is meta.

[rosterfoster]

Nothing interesting has happened. Lich is still scum IMO.

[rosterfoster]

Lich is still scum.

I’ve been liking how Eyes’ has been responding lately. It all feels very honest. Although I seem to be alone in that? So IDK.

[rosterfoster]

Inb4 the 3 scum all posted there to make me doubt myself.

*yes I know that would mean eyes is town.

[rosterfoster]

I mean TL

[rosterfoster]

Yes?

[rosterfoster]

I’m just a chicken.

[rosterfoster]

This game makes me a green chicken though.

[rosterfoster]

In fact, this is the only read that looks authentic on TL's readlist, yet TL has him 2 notches higher than bottom in BOTH his posted readlists which I also find intriguing. Like, why does TL post read lists when he's not voting his top SR anyway? I was his Top SR and he didn't vote me until he moved me up 4 notches. WHY?

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What are your reads eyes?

Im curious about your read on saudade in particular

Saudi Arabia is one of those people I'd auto-SR like Dr Worm and such players. I don't think it funny to do gimmicks and talk nonsense all the time. Sometimes they provide random reads but nothing to discuss. When they do engage they are asking others such silly questions (like "what does this mean?" & "why do you think that?") which makes them appear like they're asking questions when they really aren't.

In short, I have no qualms voting S.A. (whom I am intentionally misspelling as Saudi Arabia in revenge for his treatment to my name) but I can't say I gave a read on him one way or another with confidence.

[rosterfoster]

The second post I don’t really think town points all that out.

[rosterfoster]

I do agree. I’m not sure that’s necessarily scummy though, like it happens all the time that town are a bit disengaged?

He wasn’t really scumreading from that post though? It was more like ‘I think this person is useless so I not mind voting them’

I used to considered that stance scummy but tbh I don’t think it’s a tell any more.

[rosterfoster]

There are worse lynches than eyes for sure, but I just don’t see that he’s been as actively scummy as TL for instance.

[rosterfoster]

From my experience, proactive players are more likely to be town. However, I guess it's different for everyone.

Of course. But most players are town so a reactive player is probably town too. Trick to mafia is figuring out which is which . I dont think I’ve got that down yet tbh, but I almost feel that Eyes is playing without an agenda, while a reactive scum player would have one.

[rosterfoster]

Again TL is hard to sort for similar reasons, but I was seeing more of an agenda there. That@/ probably the best way to put how I feel about them.

[rosterfoster]

Ehh everyone kind of has that. It’s if he’s really trying to drive mislynches and I don’t think so. Sure he’s shading TL but I don’t really see him trying to set anything else up for a jump.

[rosterfoster]

Now that can come from disengaged scum too, but it doesn’t sort Eyes for me.

TL’s actions sorted him for me, which is the difference.

[rosterfoster]

Ejinami, Fumuki, you (that is more a recent thing tbh), HRG town.

That leave tmck, Flubber, orfhz, eyes as remaining scum to TL. I’d have to get a decent flip to sort them I think.

[rosterfoster]

Yeah I know it’s sucky.

[rosterfoster]

I have a completely different experience.

[rosterfoster]

Flavour!

[rosterfoster]

I’ll vote eyes if we’re getting closer to the deadline, but no need to yet.

[rosterfoster]

Spoiler: townrange

I'm gonna avoid voting ejjinami in case she is the bomb and the recruiter hits scum.

Or she ends up just being town.

Lawliett is town.

Meh.

VOTE: ofrhz

@TL: Mind explaining how counterclaiming a scum claim is scummy when you obviously don't consider scum claiming to be scummy? I mean, to me it was an obvious joke and I responded in the same manner, but I'd like to see how you saw it.

Claiming scum is pretty scummy (it isn't scumlock worthy I think), though ejjinami was seeming way too scummy to actually be scum weirdly enough.

You on the other hand

counterclaimed a scum PR

and are probably likely to actually be scum. Your ISO has a subtle feeling of "something isn't right here".

P-Edit: Your read list looks okay, but why is ofrhz so high?

Here's a read list as D1 is starting to feel very slow...

[Town]

High Risk Gamble

(town wants to be like High Risk Gamble)

rosterfoster

(a good townie, with a modest amount of info)

ejjinami

(trying too hard to be scum (and even claimed scum), so TR)

ofrhz

(seems like ofrhz)

maadneet

(neutral, a little scummy but RF/Maad feels TvT)

Fumuki

(not worth reading)

Flubbernugget

(tries to be concise and towny... 279 is a bad post)

Saudade

(your ISO is dry of info)

awestfie

(playing for the wrong team. The self-RVS vote makes this even more apparent)

Eyes without a face

(you seriously counterclaimed a scum PR?!)

[Scum]

Spoiler: scumrange

I'm willing to vote awestfie, her ISO looks so bad it's horrible

[Town]

Fumuki

(Meta read on Flubber, is now not confusing so I can clearly see town motivation)

rosterfoster

(The sudden L-1 feels opportunistic)

High Risk Gamble

(potential deepwolf, towny)

ejjinami

(starting to seem less scummy, keeping TR for now as I still think ejji has town motivations)

ofrhz

(you don't seem like your Greatest Idea self)

Eyes without a face

(the strong resistance to Eyes wagon makes me think town, still SR though)

maadneet

(we need posts from you)

Saudade

(your ISO is dry of info and you post just to post)

Flubbernugget

(scummy meta here, doesn't give good info)

awestfie

(no good posts, trying to go against town [428], refuses to find a deepwolf [435])

[Scum]

VOTE: awestfie

Yeah reading through again, awestfie is almost certainly a scumbo.

okay I have to state that 722 is an excellent case against eyes

Saudade is the townie we need

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I am happy with this vote. Saudade pings town to me now with HRG's case in 614.

Essentially I think Lich provides reasons for switches in reads, however flawed those reasonsah be.

Here I think he is trying to make up reasons to switch his positions, rather than find slightly warped reasons which is what town him usually does.

Pedit: Flavour save us all!

[rosterfoster]

Prefip associatives are entirely useless.

Flavour what do you think about Lich?

Your reads surprise me but I’m sure you’ll tell me your reasons soon

[rosterfoster]

Por que?

[rosterfoster]

Right at this stage I feel that everyone is just lacking in looking for where scum are if a) TL or Eyes only flip Goon or b) either flip town.
Unless you strongly believe that you're hitting the bomb, you should be putting more effort into where else scum are, and I think that's the actual reason this day is now going slow.

You really were.

Anyone who thinks they can call the scumteam D1 is deluding themselves.

[rosterfoster]

You’re not human.

[rosterfoster]

But I do wanna know why you’ve found them. It helps settle a chicken.

[rosterfoster]

Lich do you just assume people don't read your posts?

Flubby what's wrong with the Lich analysis? Reasons can be helpful sometimes.

[rosterfoster]

824 is most likely a shitpost.

But like this? It feels like you're just adding text to make your posts look more contentful.

[rosterfoster]

Hey why does TL feel like a mislynch to you too?

[rosterfoster]

Looking at Lich’s posts is a good start.

I did also explain a bit.

You never really explained Milk or Elijami either?

[rosterfoster]

I really strongly townread their start.

[rosterfoster]

But you didn’t quickhammer eyes?

Do you think they 100% flip town?

[rosterfoster]

I think we established that I was idioting there.

[rosterfoster]

Alternatively we could lynch Lich?

[rosterfoster]

Tbf eyes are quite tasty too. Just need to choose the right ones.

[rosterfoster]

Human eyes though, not so much.

[rosterfoster]

Nerves have something to them too

[rosterfoster]

Yeah it is.

Most people choose the wrong parts though.

[rosterfoster]

IDK there is some content to them. I just don’t feel he’s trying so hard to set up mislynches if he gets lynched.

I imagine it’s pretty hard for his posts to be fuller than your life though <3

[rosterfoster]

You mean Lich? I didn’t see that from eyes.

I do agree that kind of position is generally scummy unless there’s a decent reason (and I don’t think there is in this setup).

[rosterfoster]

Oh he did. That makes two of them threatening to self-vote without actually doing it.

[rosterfoster]

I considered self voting because a lynch might be risky but it would kickstart the game into going again. I didn't self vote because self voting is anti-town

IDK is this a more scummy way to say it? It seems like being more self-aware to me which tbh I’d think as Licj scum.

But I might have tunnel vision.

Alternatively they’re both scum.

[rosterfoster]

Because he has more presence in this game unlike eyes

I don't see the TL presence tbh. There's read lists that do nothing.

[rosterfoster]

The square root of F.A.

But I don't feel he's playing with a scum agenda. As I have said there are worse lynches.

Like I understand Westfie's reasons, but I don't see why town isn't survivalistic either if they're not liking how the game is going.

Lich is trying (in a very flawed way, of course) to direct the game in a way that suits him. So I think what little presence he has is more scummy than eyes lack of presence if that makes sense.

[rosterfoster]

“Way I see fit” != “Way that suits him”

[rosterfoster]

Because TL is scummier.

But we’ve been doing this for a while so I don’t think I’ll convince you.

[rosterfoster]

I feel like Lich is caricaturing himself to look dumb town

[rosterfoster]

Half this table is more focused on things that will happened later in the game as opposed to what's going to happen today. It's honestly the most frustrating thing.

I'm gonna prodge until the day is over. Eyes is mafia.

Then I'm going to counter.

Tell me why 1058 and 1060 isn't towny in your eyes.

This reasoning though?

[rosterfoster]

Can you explain to me how this comes from town lich? Everything feels so fake, and I didn’t feel that before when I played with him at this stage.

[rosterfoster]

You have this rep for being scummy and saying weird shit, so here you take that to the next level in the hope that people townread you for it.

[rosterfoster]

[rosterfoster]

Hey now that Lich wants to kill you can you help us lynch him?

[rosterfoster]

But she was voting Eyes then...

[rosterfoster]

Yeah but it was nothing like what you said? Which is what you were saying...

And I also don’t see how any of that is relevant?

[rosterfoster]

I mean it’s more that Lich is much scummier.

I ask you again - why I Lich a worse lynch?

[rosterfoster]

I don’t scum TL would tr his main counterwagon here

I mean he wasn’t until it stopped working for him.

[rosterfoster]

Lich only started townreading eyes after I was pressuring him for a bit.

I forgot about the Ejinami vote actually but the point still stands

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Eyes

Whatever. I think that’s L-1

[rosterfoster]

I mean I'd rather you did it to yourself but that's not happening so...

[rosterfoster]

*cries*

[rosterfoster]

Eyes without a case!

[rosterfoster]

Snowflakes.

[rosterfoster]

Scum TL might townread his cw if he was scum though. Something to ponder if y'all are right about eyes.

But yes this does make eyes the better flip today.

[rosterfoster]

There was no bullying lol

[rosterfoster]

I love you jingle <3

Why can't you be SvS?

Most people think scum Lich doesn't TR the counterwagon, but if you're buddies? It's one of the more probable outcomes IMO.

[rosterfoster]

I mean either that or we're wrong on both of you.

[rosterfoster]

Essentially I think Orfhz and others are right about Lich tr'ing eyes. I was tunnelling.

Only way Lich can be scum is if eyes is scum IMO.

[rosterfoster]

I used this logic before wrongly (catloaves) but Lich is much more predictable in some ways so it's probably ok.

Also people actually SR eyes.

[rosterfoster]

Eyes without a case!

I think people missed my genius before.

[rosterfoster]

I do have an exceptionally long neck.

[rosterfoster]

VOTE: Flubber

[rosterfoster]

Yay!

The setup is massively swingy though I think, though if town is recruited D1 I think it’s OK for town.

[rosterfoster]

It does genuinely look like I have crumbs with Ejj though.

And Flubber’s crumb looks like reaching.

I agree that game-state wise it looks like Ejj/Flubb though.

[rosterfoster]

(Because it was...)

[rosterfoster]

Funnily enough, roster failed to submit a recruitment choice. I need to update the game end post.

Tbf we still win if I recruit someone else and Awestfie kills herself

[rosterfoster]

Fine. I hate you too, roster.

Sorry I don’t want to rubber you, these things happen at 1:30am <3

[rosterfoster]

Aww Saudade you know I could never let you die <3

[rosterfoster]

Btw Lich my not understand you is very genuine. You’re very lovable but sometimes I do wonder what goes through your head.

[rosterfoster]

Yet I was getting the fear when you kept calling Awestfie scum so something is right.

I did think Eyes was very obviously bussing at the end though too

[rosterfoster]

But I’m biased so I might be wrong.

[rosterfoster]

^

[rosterfoster]

The bomb fakeclaiming bunker stuff pinged me.

It’s not a 100% thing ofc but it seemed pretty likely, beyond the rest of your play.