Open 775: Hard-Boiled Eggs [Game Over]

[Madoka]

I agree with the strategy tet provided in 45. TV should only ever choose Vig if they are forced to claim D1, otherwise, they should always choose Tracker because Vig interferes with Hider, Detective and Psychologist. I think Orange is suspicious for arguing otherwise.

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

What was arrogant about it to you?

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

reading through role PMs, we should all hypo as hider with a target, or just have real hider claim sometime d1 and lead.

Lol. This gives off townie vibes.

DK: +1 No-red-lights-on-the-drive-home-from-work

(meta shamelessly stolen off hectic)

Can you explain what the green means?

Don't necessarily agree with the above but it comes from town.

What don't you agree with?

early read, based on a sample of her recent games, is Hiraki = town.

Can you elaborate?

[Madoka]

How much experience do you have with open setups and strategy?

I have played on Epicamafia for the past 4 years and they exclusively use open setups on there thus having a preset strategy/strategy set for each setup is common.

What do you think of Tet's strategy?

Did you not read 54?

[Madoka]

Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I don't agree that it's obvious to everyone that it's anti-town. I also think it's risk-reward is worth it. The advantage of not having town play to the optimal strategy of 45 and getting the TV to choose Vig is worth potentially being cast in a bad light, especially because Orange is clearly confident in their ability to argue against the strategy. (I openly guide town into following a bad strategy myself as scum).

[Madoka]

@72: Hiraki's avatar is 9S from NieR:Automata. It's a really fun game.

I've been stuck on the first 10 minutes because I keep getting killed in one hit and I don't know what I'm doing and I can't save and have to keep starting over and I started the game on the hardest difficulty because I was tired of games being too easy on normal mode.

Also hi

[Madoka]

Does anyone else have this problem?

It's the site.

Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.

The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.

Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.

Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.

Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-

How so? Scum is very free to do so. It just makes a town win that much easier to achieve.

Ok.

What made you feel they were attempting to get scum to CC?

I don't like dkkoba's vote either. orange just joined the site a week ago, so I don't think him being wrong about setup spec of all things makes him scum.

Do you think they are a new player based on their posts?

[Madoka]

I'm not sold on allomancer scum, but I think a wagon there can do good things

Why did you vote tet initially?

Yeah, I definitely don't see this slot flipping scum right now.

What about his post makes you think he's town?

[Madoka]

He states that it's town vs scum but his wording makes it sound like town v town. I don't see scum making that move too often and, if so, it's calculated. That post feels off the cuffs.

Where does he say it's town vs scum?

[Madoka]

I also think orange is frozen.

[Madoka]

Why is 72 so high agajn

What caused your initial impression on tet to vote them? Your RVS votes are low information guided rather than completely random, right?

[Madoka]

Why is 72 so high agajn

What caused your initial impression on tet to vote them? Your RVS votes are low information guided rather than completely random, right?

are we still hung up over tet

at this rate i dont remember either

As town, your thoughts very closely align with mine. The fact that they haven't concerns me. Your tet vote, in particular, wasn't something I could empathize with which is why I'd like to know your thought process.

[Madoka]

Its big monkey

Hey what's your read on orange.

[Madoka]

I think we should lynch ddl.

[Madoka]

That's not why I think you're scum. I can't follow your thoughts and you're just posting fluff.

[Madoka]

ddl, 57 is scum trying to play goody-goody townie, like this. And the argument for TV picking vig is scum sided.

[Madoka]

I agree with the last few lines of 223 actually. Battle Mages forced /performative stance is something I've been wondering about too.

[Madoka]

ejj and Almost are the same slot I believe.

[Madoka]

I think all of Orange's posts are a bit convoluted. Saying a lot without really saying much. I'm fine with them being the lynch today. I still need to catch up. I haven't really been reading in-depth since Ico replaced in. So I'll vote then.

[Madoka]

Looker, I will get to this within the next couple of days.

[Madoka]

I only vote if I'm willing to lynch/end the day.

[Madoka]

I really don't care.

[Madoka]

I'm not really up for discussing it. You can read my completed game / ask Looker/Hiraki for meta.

[Madoka]

I meant I'm not really up for discussing playstyle/philosophy, at least at this time, but we can circle back to it after I've caught up and given my thoughts if you'd like.

[Madoka]

I'm not really up for discussing it. You can read my completed game / ask Looker/Hiraki for meta.

OK. Can you please provide a read list in one post? I don't really care if you have too many nulls. I just want something to check back on when we do have flips. Thanks in advance.

This is suspicious to me. I don't see the point of this question given 378 and 366. It reads as someone wanting to get in their brownie points.

[Madoka]

Pre catchup thoughts is that the team is ddl, Happy, and Almost.

I'll have a full catchup, reads, etc. within 24 hours.

[Madoka]

What's the purpose of discussing it right now? Philosophy discussion just gives scum a way to post stuff without actually contributing.

[Madoka]

I'm sorry you feel that way Ico. I'm not waiting until the deadline, I just haven't had the time to read in-depth and I don't feel comfortable voting until I do. As I said, I'll be caught up soon.

[Madoka]

Please don't give in to despair. You're our saving grace.

[Madoka]

Alright, let's get this started.

[Madoka]

72 and Battlemage if you highlight the part you want to quote before pressing the quote button, it will only quote the highlighted part. Alternatively, please use spoilers for long quotes!

[Madoka]

Looker, you me and Ico are going to be besties after this catchup and we're gonna roll through scum like a steamroller over boiled eggs.

[Madoka]

Interesting. Looker, you've been treating my slot as you did Raya's in TRF. Does that mean what I think it means?

[Madoka]

Interaction Analysis

=/ not partners

= partners

~ strange interaction (potentially partners)

AlmostEjj

=/Alo

37

~Battle

49 the tone here looks very forced. Also 50. Did a quick meta check and I haven't seen this awkwardness in any of his other games. He also played as scum before on this site and a few unknown games offsite. So I think this is probably newbie scum awkwardness. 51 is also scummy. Update: Based off 56 I don't think they are partners and the strangeness of this interaction comes purely from Ejj's end.

Sidebar: Oh wow, this doesn't make any sense at all:

So are there any established strategies for this setup or what do we do? I can already think of 1 potential strategy giving it a quick glance but I wanted to ask those more experienced what they thought.

Pfffft, I love how this seems both humble and arrogant at the same time xD
If you have any ideas, just say them

What was arrogant about it to you?

It seemed to come from a pov of someone who already considered their idea as the best one.
If they had an opinion and thought that it was good enough to mention, the only reasons they could have had NOT to say it were to either avoid looking stupid or to try to probe the “experienced players” in a seemingly humble way.
Or if they’re scum, to wait for people to to say their ideas first to see if it’s possible to make them follow a slightly worse one :/
Both last options are arrogant in a way and based on his previous posts, the first one just seemed unlikely.

I think I might

lock AlmostEjj as scum

from this. First of all, aside from Dks other posts, this post in particular did not come off as arrogant. Key phrases: potential strategy, more experienced, established strategies. He was clearly looking for input. Second, this explanation is way overdone/long winded. I think Ejj is hypersensitive scum who felt the need to overjustify himself. You can tell this by the way he felt the need to explicitly show that he didn't know he was town by going through the town and scum scenarios instead of simply explaining it as a whole. Third, the reasoning doesn't make sense. I really doubt townEjj thought this: "to see if it’s possible to make them follow a slightly worse one :/"

Ejj wrote:

battle mage wrote:
Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

This is a bad read imo. If you think that he is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter.

Ejj wrote:

Dkk wrote:
If something speaks like scum, then it probably is scum. From my experience at least. I implore people to put pressure on orange and make them explain themselves. I am personally not satisfied with their logic as all it does it help setup mafia and invalidate PRs

...lol


Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off.

These two posts are contradictory. Yes, I say we lock him as scum.

*Probably not scum with Alora or Hiraki based on some comments in 164.

Spoiler: MultiLevel Irony

Not enough people voting for Hiraki here... Would be great if people could explain why, making reference to my watertight case against him!

I'll read and see if I buy the case

did you end up reading?

Note: This does NOT mean I SR Hiraki.

Now tell who's not reading (or rather is not

comprehending

what they read).

I'm not really up for discussing it. You can read my completed game / ask Looker/Hiraki for meta.

OK. Can you please provide a read list in one post? I don't really care if you have too many nulls. I just want something to check back on when we do have flips. Thanks in advance.

This is suspicious to me. I don't see the point of this question given 378 and 366. It reads as someone wanting to get in their brownie points.

=/Tet

345

I actually like Almost's tone. I'll need to dig into his meta. I'm sleepy at the moment and going to bed. I still don't want to vote, but to appease Ico I'll go here for the time being. I didn't realize how little Almost has given. Regarding 431 I've caught scum on something similar before, getting in on questioning me for something I had already promised to provide later.

VOTE: Almost

[Madoka]

I'm still doing a read through but these are my impressions so far. Depending on how Looker responds to me, I'm almost sure she's town. I've read her correctly from just a few posts in the past 3-4 games she's been in. Ico is playing completely different than what I've seen as scum. I've barely read any of the Easter Eggs' posts.

Deviled eggs

(the best kind of eggs)
Madoka
DkKoba
Iconeum
Looker

Easter Eggs

Tet
Allomancer
72offsuit
Battle Mage
Aloratom
Hiraki

Rotten Eggs

happyorange
DrDolittle
Almostejji

[Madoka]

Also, I may need to reconsider Orange. I think Orange and ddl probably are partners and I think ddl-AlmEjj have some partner equity. ddl's reads seem way off to me. I don't like his Looker push at all.

[Madoka]

EBWOP: probably aren't partners

[Madoka]

I think I might lock AlmostEjj as scum from this. First of all, aside from Dks other posts, this post in particular did not come off as arrogant. Key phrases: potential strategy, more experienced, established strategies. He was clearly looking for input. Second, this explanation is way overdone/long winded. I think Ejj is hypersensitive scum who felt the need to overjustify himself. You can tell this by the way he felt the need to explicitly show that he didn't know he was town by going through the town and scum scenarios instead of simply explaining it as a whole. Third, the reasoning doesn't make sense. I really doubt townEjj thought this: "to see if it’s possible to make them follow a slightly worse one :/"

I think it kind of did come off as a humblebrag as ejj points out. Yes he's looking for input, but he's also pointing out that he's already thought of a strategy and seems pretty confident in it.

Even still, his reasoning for

why

Dk made his post doesn't make sense. Also, the fact that he felt the need to explain each scenario is a newbie scum tell.

[Madoka]

oof that's a big post

I wanna say that I respectfully disagree with your ejjilmost scumread, I was townreading that based off of tone and the post related to hider claiming (which didn't benefit scum AT ALL)

i like the position of most of your reads, kinda
it's early for a full readlist

I don't think the hider post us AI since Dk had already begun discussing optimal strategy. As for tone, it us different from his town games where he is more inquisitive / hunter-like. Here it had an awkward, overdoness to it. If you look at his other games, his posts are much more succinct.

[Madoka]

yall be scumreading me you should vote me

I think a better option would be you contributing more, don't you think?

[Madoka]

yall be scumreading me you should vote me

I think a better option would be you contributing more, don't you think?

Like as town why would you waste our time and a lynch.

[Madoka]

@Madoka: Your vote on Almost50 is weird. Does it really count if I have to force it? (More like beg for it)

I don't know what you're saying here? Are saying the vote itself is weird because I didn't want to vote? I'm trying to keep my strongest town read from becoming apathetic. Did you read my case?

Raya deserved what she got for the way she played

She was pretty townie throughout most of the game. You chose her as your tunnel slot in RVS and stuck with her throughout the game for no reason, just as you voted Quantum here and are sticking with it.

I appreciate your townread, but I don't know how much credence to give it. You've read some of my games and can see my avatar, but you haven't figured out that I'm a man yet, lol

You've literally said multiple times that you're a girl.

Ico is right: I feel like I've done literally nothing alignment-indicative yet. It's possible that that's even scummy in itself. [Don't let 72 pawn off your reads as his own, though

I've been able to read you off a few posts each game. See: Purgatory (though I was scum that game, I town read you before I replaced in; I'm not pocketing you this time I swear!). Also did in TRF. And some games that I wasn't in.

[Madoka]

Who have you previously played with?

Looker
ejji
Dk
72
clidd

Oof, I didn’t recognize you cuz of the avatar change. Hi!

Actually, this may be a partner slip. Aloratom hadn't posted until then so Ejj wouldn't have seen his avatar unless they were posting in PT.

[Madoka]

Who have you previously played with?

Looker
ejji
Dk
72
clidd

Oof, I didn’t recognize you cuz of the avatar change. Hi!

Actually, this may be a partner slip. Aloratom hadn't posted until then so Ejj wouldn't have seen his avatar unless they were posting in PT.

Nice thought. But last time ejji saw me was in that 2121 mini normal that 72offsuit cited in his breakdown of ejji. I'm not sure why he commented on ejji's meta from that game and not mine.

That's what I mean. You had the clown avatar then. But Ejj said he didn't recognize you despite the fact that you hadn't posted yet.

[Madoka]

Ech. Not a fan of that after thinking about it for a moment.

Not a fan of what? I can't remember if I already asked this.

[Madoka]

Spoiler:

Who have you previously played with?

Looker
ejji
Dk
72
clidd

Oof, I didn’t recognize you cuz of the avatar change. Hi!

Actually, this may be a partner slip. Aloratom hadn't posted until then so Ejj wouldn't have seen his avatar unless they were posting in PT.

He posted before ejji in this very quote chain. Or im high.

Yeah but those were his first posts in the game and the post Ejj was responding to. He made it seem like he had noticed him like a page ago? But yeah I don't even believe this I just wanted to see how Alora would respond.

Hiraki always so mean and grumpy :c

[Madoka]

yall be scumreading me you should vote me

idk about yall but .. i really like this post for some reason. I just really do, and I don't see myself lynching DDL today.

I don't know what you mean by for some reason, the reason is apparent. It displays a lack of self-preservation. This is well within his scum range. Here's a post from one of his scum games with a similar tone (the bolded):

Can we please just kill DDL and take night as a breather

You’re literally not lynching me and I’ve demonstrated more than enough that I’m town. The fact that you are ok voting for me when DDL has done cluckall the entire game is positive scum equity.

this is slimy af. there's more than 10 days left, and gobbles wants to end the day + I mentioned that I'm not 100 percent available. I'm almost sure gobles is scum this game, and its absurd he's not getting pressure.

in particular look for people who suggest goobles is scum but is not voting there when I flip green.

While we're at it, I'll show a couple of other posts that people might take as town indicative but are within his scum range:

Spoiler: Basing a read off meta

yeah I was updating my pool.
another update:
I think my strongest scumread other than 72 is looker because tonally different from
viewtopic.php?t=81747&f=84&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

check out town goobles here
viewtopic.php?t=80894&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
and tell me this is the same bird

Spoiler: Random town read on a scummy player

I'm not interested in voting orange.

I'm not interested in voting for slimer

(definitely indicates town!Orange if scum!ddl)

[Madoka]

battle mage what do you think about me claiming mafia with orange and that I'm bussing them.

Fun fact: it's literaaly against the rules

I don't think it is.

[Madoka]

He does it often.

[Madoka]

I hate you lol.

[Madoka]

No they aren't an alt. They stated that they come from irl werewolf.

[Madoka]

VOTE: 72offsuit Let's kill that love triangle and see if Allomancer's wagon was scumdriven. I'm also done with the monkey.

Why did you switch off Almost? Also can you address the points I made about the slot?

[Madoka]

actually orange said something that gave them away as an alt I think

[Madoka]

@Madoka: You said that you liked his tone and that you were going to sleep. You also said you were only voting because Ico made you.

Almost and Ejj are the same slot. Did you not see my entire case on him above that line?

[Madoka]

These two were in the same from Ejj. Anyone not scum reading this should state why:

"This is a bad read imo. If you think that [Orange] is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter."

"Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off."

[Madoka]

I'm solid on this slot being scum.

DK, Ico you should get on this train. Let's lynch

scum

.

[Madoka]

Allomancer, thoughts on my 493?

[Madoka]

Looker why were you done with Monkey if he hadn't posted anything between your 509 and 545?

[Madoka]

Orange, can you address the points I made in 75 and 85? Do you see my point on why TV shouldn't choose Vig?

[Madoka]

Looker was joking I think but looking at Almost's profile he is 51 hoi

[Madoka]

You should vote Almost so you won't have to.

[Madoka]

Currently yea. I'll have a more detailed post in a bit. Actually, I guess I can post what I have currently.

AlmostEjj

=/Alo

37

~Battle

49 the tone here looks very forced. Also 50. Did a quick meta check and I haven't seen this awkwardness in any of his other games. He also played as scum before on this site and a few unknown games offsite. So I think this is probably newbie scum awkwardness. 51 is also scummy. Update: Based off 56 I don't think they are partners and the strangeness of this interaction comes purely from Ejj's end.

=/Tet

345

=Looker

462, 550

*Probably not scum with Alora or Hiraki based on some comments in 164.

Al[l]ora! Tom

=/Allomancer

127

=/AlmEjj

37

Tetsuoooooooooooooo! Kaneeeedaaaaaaaaa!

=/Orange

74

=/AlmEjj

345

*Probably not scum with: BM (Tone 73)

Battle Mage Alita

~Orange

69 Weird justification. Possible Scum mate or TMI. Leaning more toward TMI based on (or just being wrong) based on 82.

=/AlmostEjj

56

=/Hiraki

203

=/Allo

209

Side bar: 206 is townie. 208 is townie. Putting BM in the upper eggchelons.

Hafnium-72

=/Allo

116

Mistborn Alloy Incinerator

=/72

116

=/BM

209

*Possible mate: BM 122 (72 picked up on this as well 156)
*Probably not scum with: Orange 123

DelightedFruit

=/tet

74

Side bar: I like the tone in 172. 223 is good. 455 is good. Moving Orange up.

Lookher

=/ddl + ejji team

196

=Almejj

462, 550

Dr do little scumhunting

~=Alo

(his treatment of ddl around the Allo wagon)

~=Allo

(how ddl and Alo treated him during the wagon)

[Madoka]

I'm certain Almost is scum. I don't think Orange fits with the team. Almost made it known he was trying to chill D1 but made the case above on Orange after me and 72 have been putting pressure on him, and I feel like he's trying to solidify the Orange lynch. Like what was the point reiterating everything that's already been discussed about 57

[Madoka]

Hiraki, you should sheep me since your reads are pretty bad.

[Madoka]

I completely change my mind on Looker btw. I'm currently thinking Almost, Looker, ddl in that order.

[Madoka]

Deviled eggs

Madoka
DkKoba
Iconeum
72offsuit
Tet

Kinder Eggs

Battle Mage
Hiraki
Aloratom
happyorange

Easter Eggs

Allomancer

Rotten Eggs

DrDolittle
Looker
Almostejji

Allo plays the same in every game and I have yet to identify how to read him. I think his play is a bit different here from his town game in Totally Real Food, but honestly, I really don't know. He can go either way.

[Madoka]

haha why are you so confident. I don't believe it.

Your avatar is really cute btw.

[Madoka]

The progression of his read here in Allom doesnt feel genuine to me,
and the one on one interaction with DDL just feels awkward.

I agree. Currently for me it's [Almost, Looker, ddl] > [ddl, Alo, Allo] or some mix of the two. Everyone in the kinder group I put there because I like their tone but haven't been able to solidify a town read. I also liked Alo's backtrack on BM after reading the context and his assertive agreement with the hider strategy. Your case here is very convincing, however.

Madoka, did looker move down your list because you think they're partnered with almost, or something else?

I don't believe these:

I can't get a read on this fucking monkey, lmao

I'm also done with the monkey.

Regardless of Almost's alignment (thought it's worse if he's scum), Looker is making a show of her attempt to read him. This is one of the main scum tells I've picked up on her play. I made a full analysis of her meta here. Point 3 is the relevant tell.

Also as I mentioned somewhere above, Almost hadn't posted in between the posts where Looker was claiming to try and read him and the time she said he was done with him, so I don't believe it was genuine.

[Madoka]

I don't really care for or consider meta

I made an essay in the link on why you should :3

[Madoka]

These two were in the same from Ejj. Anyone not scum reading this should state why:

"This is a bad read imo. If you think that [Orange] is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter."

"Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off."

Aloratom please state why you do or do not disagree with this.

[Madoka]

I would expect you to scumread DDL who looks like he is dodging your questions

Keep managing damage control, my friend.

Where did ddl respond to your 270? And if he did not why have you not continued to press or read him on it?

[Madoka]

oof that's a big post

I wanna say that I respectfully disagree with your ejjilmost scumread, I was townreading that based off of tone and the post related to hider claiming (which didn't benefit scum AT ALL)

i like the position of most of your reads, kinda
it's early for a full readlist

I don't think the hider post us AI since Dk had already begun discussing optimal strategy. As for tone, it us different from his town games where he is more inquisitive / hunter-like. Here it had an awkward, overdoness to it. If you look at his other games, his posts are much more succinct.

ah you compare tone to his meta with which you have experience? i'm just not seeing it with the information i have this game

Tone: happy-go-lucky / awkward in this game vs inquisitive / hunter-like in his town games. Even if you want to disregard the fact that his town games have a different tone, you can use the fact that his tone is awkward in this game.

[Madoka]

544 is newbie scum calling someone out for something they think is scummy and then doing the very thing in the same post.

[Madoka]

EBWOP: 554

[Madoka]

Quote:

Claiming scum - by yourself is fine. Claiming scum with another player is against the rules.

Oh, good to know, thanks!

Also, @Madoka: I'm uber jealous. You said I was your strongest townread, but you said Ico was the game's "saving grace"

he was very much being a prick to me there, he didn't mean it

I did mean it. It felt like you were the only one driving the game forward at the time. I was buddying you because I felt bad that you were feeling regretful about joining and putting in effort amongst a passive town.

I urge you to read Almost, and case him if you truly scumread it.

559 is a forced read. Especially point 3 about not voting when we've already gone over that. Point 1 is unnecessary rehashing of something we've been over. Point 2 is a bad faith interpretation of Orange's mindstate.

431 I've caught scum on something similar before, getting in on questioning me for something I had already promised to provide later. The fact that he ignored my promises for content indicates that he replied to me just for the sake of getting his voice out there, not for the sake of promoting town health.

[Madoka]

Like if Almost didn't make his case for the sake of showmanship, Point one would have simply been something like "I agree with the points that were made on Orange regarding...", but he rehashed it all out for the sake of display.

[Madoka]

You had orange all the way down in your Rotten Eggs compartment for most of the day and posted quite a bit on scum!orange. What happened that put him up that much?

These:

Side bar: I like the tone in 172. 223 is good. 455 is good. Moving Orange up.

Orange, thank you for addressing particulars!

[Madoka]

Ejj is not newbie scum?

Link me to one of his scum games then

[Madoka]

Wow, that was actually a pretty scummy post by Hiraki.

[Madoka]

Orange and BM are you still open to lynching Hiraki?

[Madoka]

VOTE: Hiraki

[Madoka]

These games would be so much easier if town just played like town. I never understoid the point of making it unnecessarily difficult.

[Madoka]

No just in general. It's mainly a criticism of play like ddl's. I think I may just start experimenting with policy lynching such slots.

Looker

+

Hiraki

[Madoka]

Well I mean you're a part of it too as you generally play cagey. That's what brought it up in my mind, but ddl is the main culprit.

[Madoka]

So...you did call your vote part of the town???

I don't know what you're asking here.

These two were in the same from Ejj. Anyone not scum reading this should state why:

"This is a bad read imo. If you think that [Orange] is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter."

"Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off."

Aloratom please state why you do or do not disagree with this.

Please point me to the original quotes so that I can read them in context.

164

These two were in the same from Ejj. Anyone not scum reading this should state why:

"This is a bad read imo. If you think that [Orange] is town for that, why not openly say it? It kinda sounds like you want to give a hint that you disagree with the wagon without openly stating your stance on the matter."

"Ngl, the wagon on orange is starting to get weird. Being wrong is not always AI and is definitely not townie so so many players yelling at each other because of it feels slightly off."

Aloratom please state why you do or do not disagree with this.

This is the second or third gotcha post you've tried with me. Is this your normal play style?

I'm trying to read you since you're not providing enough to be read on your own. Please answer 596 as well.

[Madoka]

The responses to the monkey was all I needed to know about the monkey

Please show this in detail.

[Madoka]

Reposting for those losing track:

Looker why were you done with Monkey if he hadn't posted anything between your 509 and 545?

[Madoka]

Looker no one had commented on Almost in between those two posts and Almost hadn't posted. You're not telling the truth.

Hiraki

+

Looker

[Madoka]

Dio you scum read ddl? It doesn't bother you that he promised to provide an explanation on Allomancer and then never did after you asked him about it multiple times?

[Madoka]

Like there is town in Almost, Looker, Hiraki, Aloratom, and ddl. There other three are scum. Can whoever is town just start to play like it please it's really not hard.

[Madoka]

I find that entire block from ejji more objectionable as to form than as to substance. I'm not sure what's so scummy about the two quotes you pulled in particular. Please enlighten me.

544 is newbie scum calling someone out for something they think is scummy and then doing the very thing in the same post.

We all scum read people based on different things, some are legitimate tells and some aren't. Regardless of whether they are good tells are not, we basically tend to scum read people for things we

personally

do as scum. The first line shows the type of thing Ejj finds suspicious, and the second line shows him doing that very thing.

Furthermore, it's a complete contradiction in mindstate. He was getting on BM for defending the orange wagon, but he himself felt it needed defending against.

[Madoka]

It was a typo. 554 is the relevant post.

[Madoka]

Reposting for those losing track:

Looker why were you done with Monkey if he hadn't posted anything between your 509 and 545?

The responses to the monkey was all I needed to know about the monkey

Please show this in detail.

Looker no one had commented on Almost in between those two posts and Almost hadn't posted. You're not telling the truth.

72, Battle Mage, Dk, Orange, Ico what are your thoughts on this?

[Madoka]

Orange and BM are you still open to lynching Hiraki?

Nah, sorry, think the dude's town.

How come?

[Madoka]

Orange you should probably claim.

[Madoka]

devilemoji

[Madoka]

No, I'm not. I'm implying that you're L-2 with the clear leading your wagon and several others having voiced complacency with your lynch.

[Madoka]

I don't understand what he means by "the responses to the monkey," but I don't hugely get anything from it one way or the other. Not the type of thing I tend to think is very reliable to read into, the monkey stuff never made sense to me so it could be him as a villager randomly changing his mind about something that was probably pointless to begin with or it could be him as a wolf having a fake progression, not going to overly stress about it one or the other personally.

I see where we are failing to see eye-to-eye. This is why meta is important. For example, say I told you I saw a man digging a giant hole at the park. There's nothing too interesting about that because of the sheer volume of possibilities as to why. Now say I saw your wife digging a hole at the park. You would find that much more interesting, yes? Because you know her and understand that would be a peculiar behavior coming from her. That's kind of what this is. It's futile trying to read into someone's behavior without experience with them (direct or indirect), but with such experience, peculiarities in their behavior become much more salient.

Let's ignore the discrepancy itself, then, and focus on the fact that she lied: 643, 645. Regardless of the reason

why

she changed her view on Monkey (change in mind or fake progression), the fact that she

lied

about her reason shows that it was not sincere.

[Madoka]

I was neutral on the orange wagon at first, but I'm not a huge fan of how he's responded to the pressure. I guess I'll wait to see how he pleads his case.

Can you point out the posts that you don't like of his with regard to pressure?

[Madoka]

Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

Not going to elaborate on Hiraki read yet, as still possible he/she will give off some tells. But wanted to reflect initial view, largely as a reminder for me later.

Agree, I think the ship had sailed and Orange wasn't going to convince anyone, so I don;t think scum presses the point here, but would rather back off and blend in with the rest of the players.

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

72 did you ever explain how you got TvT from this when there was no Orange v DK?

[Madoka]

Spoiler:

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Agree with DK. Tracking hider is a waste. Otherwise sounds reasopnable.

Hider claims don't cross target. The tracker can figure out the hider between the two via night actions and the hider knows the counterclaim is scum.

The way hider + tracker work in this setup is essentially a cop in combination.

Hider doesn't have to out their targets. Tracker follows the hider and if the hider lives the person they visited is a green check. If the hider dies and there is a nightkill then it's a red check.

Scum can't counterclaim hider in the setup. They can CC tracker but only if they successfully lynch the hider since he can corroborate the targets.

Now this sounds like you are encouraging scum to CC hider -_-

dkkoba, you're not wrong about the logic, obviously. You might be right about orange, but I'm not convinced for the moment. I think the idea that putting pressure on orange to "explain themselves" is a fools errand - clearly orange can't explain it satisfactorily, so you're setting him up to fail.

I'm keeping my vote on you for now. Not buying the aggression and over-confidence in your read.

Agreed.
It's like flogging a dead horse.

the tracker doesn't go on the hider in order to confirm the hider ya dunce

Mmk so while hypo is a nice idea it's not necessary. Best chance for town is mathdinos strat in 487.

-hider claims late d1 without dropping reads/does not claim who they are hiding behind.

-tracker/vig chooses tracker and tracks hider.

-det/psych holds claim till late game if at all possible

This changes if tracker/vig is going to be lynched d1. In that case they take vig and shoot the scummiest target, hider moves freely.

Agree with DK. Tracking hider is a waste. Otherwise sounds reasopnable.

I think you misspoke here. Care to elaborate?

I think I misunderstood your post.
On reread I think I get the context.
When you said tracker doesn't go on the hider in order to confirm the hider ya dunce''
I originally thought you meant that tracker doesnt track hider at all.
But on reread It looks like you are saying the PURPOSE of tracking hider claim is not to confirm hider, but rather to find out who scum is when hider dies.

änd that you still support tracker tracking hider claim.
Is that correct?

Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

Not going to elaborate on Hiraki read yet, as still possible he/she will give off some tells. But wanted to reflect initial view, largely as a reminder for me later.

Agree, I think the ship had sailed and Orange wasn't going to convince anyone, so I don;t think scum presses the point here, but would rather back off and blend in with the rest of the players.

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

Feeling pretty good on my 72offsuit SR.

Wanna elaborate?

Perhaps later. I am sure the true tells will show soon enough or I will be wrong.

I was obsessed with that game. It tore me up inside. Poor little 9S

VOTE: DrDolittle

I'm not understanding this post. Is this a personal/inhouse thing? Or am i missing something here?

I agree with Orange and Hiraki(?) that your series of posts here was off. I still don't get why you would care if scum CCed Hider. Your response was something like yeah they could just talk in the PT. But still, why would you care if they CCed?

[Madoka]

Ico I'm not sure how you feel good about stuff like this:

I was neutral on the orange wagon at first, but I'm not a huge fan of how he's responded to the pressure. I guess I'll wait to see how he pleads his case.

There really hasn't been much resistance to it at all. I think the reason they haven't been at L-1 yet is simply because we were utilizing day time.

Those against the Orange wagon early on were been BM/ddl/72. These all felt like TMI on a town player as the reasoning was poor or nonexistent.

Currently, those against the wagon are BM/ddl/me. Everyone else has voiced being OK with it.

[Madoka]

No one put anyone at L-1 until they've come back and had a chance to make the case they promised. There are too many lolhammerers on this forum. There's no need for L-1 with more than 2 days left.

[Madoka]

Why is it more scum-inclined to be insincere about changing his mind rather than town-inclined? Do you think he just did a little sprinkle of distaste, when there was nothing happening on the slot, and then shoo'd away from it? I don't disagree with you that it's weird, I even looked into it. I don't think it's worth making this much of a fuss about either though. There are plenty of other things that are actually bad about Looker and this is just a dumb one. If you want to mislynch A51 after we see Looker flip scum, sure. I won't try and stop you.

I think she became self-conscious about her voting after these:

@Looker -- Why are you moving your vote around so much? Do you have that many scum reads?

VOTE: looker

• @Aloratom: I'm still building associations.
  
• @DDL:

That's when she started to voice her "process" and making show of having a reason for her vote.

I can't get a read on this fucking monkey, lmao

MONKEY! At what point will you cast a vote of your own?

VOTE: 72offsuit Let's kill that love triangle and see if Allomancer's wagon was scumdriven. I'm also done with the monkey.

It wasn't genuine though and the fact that she had to make up a reason for her change on Monkey after I called her out, indicates that. It's not like she was expecting me to call her out. She had to make up the reason afterwards and thus is the reason why it doesn't line up. If it were town!Looker who simply changed her mind, she simply would have said that. I don't see why you think town would make up a reason?

(Note: Looker red also means one or both of Alo/ddl is town)

[Madoka]

No one put anyone at L-1 until they've come back and had a chance to make the case they promised. There are too many lolhammerers on this forum. There's no need for L-1 with more than 2 days left.

This is simply wrong. Not putting him at L-1 ASAP is bad play. There's no real pressure with L-2. Any lolhammerers will get punished.
You say there's no need with 2 days left, so you want to wait until the last moment?
And what if he claims a PR then? You go for a No-Lynch? You switch last minute and HOPE enough people line up to get a lynch?

I fully disagree. People on this site quick lynch too often and no one's going to punish a ddl lolhammer because it's ddl. If they aren't going to punish him for his play this far they aren't going to punish him for that.

No I don't want to wait for the last moment, but it's silly to put them at L-1 when they just promised content. Additionally, there's no rule that says a person needs to be at L-1 to claim. I always found that pretty silly. You should claim if it looks like you're going to get lynched. No need to be in the red zone to do it.

And if they did claim a PR at the last moment that would actually be amazing because the scrambling during those times is where the best reads come from.

[Madoka]

Every game I've lost here was because I trusted town to behave properly when someone was at L-1. I no longer have that trust and will vehemently fight against people leaving someone there unless we are ready to end the day.

[Madoka]

I'll give you this though, if Orange isn't convincing when they come back, I'll put them at L-1 myself.

[Madoka]

VOTE: 72

For now.

[Madoka]

Which part was the lie, sorry?

Looker why were you done with Monkey if he hadn't posted anything between your 509 and 545?

The responses to the monkey was all I needed to know about the monkey

No one had mentioned anything about Almost between 509 and 545, so Looker couldn't have changed her mind due to "the responses to the monkey." She made this reasoning up after the fact.

[Madoka]

Hiraki I like your case on 72 and agree with most of it. I only don't agree with these two points:

Spoiler:

This is borderline scum coaching without a PT.

I don't get why he would be coaching since they have day talk?

Again, opinion, not really concrete and not really diving into detail. But it's post 156 - we don't really need to get into that.

I thought this was a good observation and I had the same thought.

Regarding alt thing, I don't know what you mean. I've been playing since 08. Speaking of alt, why did you ask why I was focused on orange being one when I was just answering ddl's question two posts above?

[Madoka]

Currently, those against the wagon are BM/ddl/me

can you tell me why exactly you are against the wagon?
and why you'd vote on it anyway pending orange post?

I was trying to remember who asked me this already and it was you!

You had orange all the way down in your Rotten Eggs compartment for most of the day and posted quite a bit on scum!orange. What happened that put him up that much?

These:

Side bar: I like the tone in 172. 223 is good. 455 is good. Moving Orange up.

Offering to put them at L-1 is placation/compromise. I don't want them to be at L-1 before they've gotten a chance to say what they want to say. You want them to be at L-1 for pressure/claim. I'm offering to fulfill your goal in return for fulfilling mine.

[Madoka]

Good stuff Orange n_n!

[Madoka]

Think it makes very little sense for you to want anyone you think is a villager to be at l-1 under any circumstances, but you do you.

I was trying to help you out there I don't get why you're antagonizing me. I think you misread my tone probably.

I wasn't saying "If orange doesn't prove themself they need to die"

I was saying "I don't want them at L1, so please trust me on this and if they don't come through, I'll do it myself." Given (1) the culture on this site = L1Hammah!Letsgoo (2)Allo just voiced being OK with lynching you (3) Ico and Hiraki both pressing for another vote, I thought it was highly likely you would be voted for despite my argument. So to prevent that, I was putting the vote in my control.

yo madoka are you just scum or?

No I just tend to have higher than average reads.

[Madoka]

You don't want to 'fullfill my goal of putting up pressure', because you won't vote until after orange made his promised post:

Exactly. You didn't think they would come through and wanted to put them at L-1 so they would. I, however, did think they would come through without it.

[Madoka]

Your desperate seesawing if orange is telling enough.

I love stuff like this and it's why it's so easy to win as scum. If I were scum here I'd definitely be defending town!Orange for this very reason. It increases paranoia, making town more likely to lynch them. Then on their town flip I look good.

Kind of what ddl was doing earlier.

[Madoka]

I wasn't saying "If orange doesn't prove themself they need to die"

Not in those words, but pretty close actually:

I'll give you this though, if Orange isn't convincing when they come back, I'll put them at L-1 myself.

Ur downplaying what you said

Nah, you just misread my tone. Reread it in the context and it's obvious.

[Madoka]

Nah

[Madoka]

Spoiler:

Like if Almost didn't make his case for the sake of showmanship, Point one would have simply been something like "I agree with the points that were made on Orange regarding...", but he rehashed it all out for the sake of display.

Listen you [redacted]: I said I was going to fucking relax and not bloody effort. I only read the ISO of orange (as the person Ejji was voting) and decided I like where the vote is. Your desperate seesawing if orange is telling enough.

Pre catchup thoughts is that the team is

ddl, Happy, and Almost

.

I'll have a full catchup, reads, etc. within 24 hours.

This was you proposed team "pre catchup", and you put these same 3 names in your "Rotten Eggs" in 469. Then you fucking found a way to remove orange and replace him with Looker. Rule of 3 applies. If orange is scum (and I think he is) then you are definitely a partner of his.

I really like the second part. But I'm not sure if town gets upset here. I've only felt the frustration you're feeling as scum I think. Do you have any examples of you reacting similarly to pressure as town?

[Madoka]

I don't think i'm misreading anything. You clearly said you'd put him on L-1 if the content itself wasn't good.

I don't think I said that. If I recall, I used the word convincing. I.e if they didn't convince you/others and came in refusing to claim without being L-1, then I'd do the honors.

[Madoka]

lol goshdammit Ico leave me alone I haven't even gotten to read Looker's post yet because of you. As for who to look at upon flip, let me look through my interaction analysis real quick.

[Madoka]

madoka, say we lynch orange.

What would you deduce from him either flipping scum or town?

ScumOrange clears Tet and implicates Looker (everything implicates Looker heh) since she hasn't really associated herself with them. Hm I think that's all really. Mainly cause I just don't think they're scum. Oh wait, I think BM would be their partner for 69. But I think it's more likely scum!BM town!Orange based on 82. Oh yeah I also agree with you that the Allo post I quoted is bussy, so he's implicated as well. {Allo, Orange, BM}

TownOrange implicates ddl, 72, and BM for their gross af TMI Orange town reads at the start of the phase. And based off 726 I don't think you know what they are going to flip, so I think you look good. I think Hiraki looks alright as well unless 72 is scum. If town!72 and town!Orange, I don't think scum!Hiraki would find it necessary to voice his support for the Orange wagon when he could just coast on 72 (although it looks like he never actually even voted 72?)

I hate when my town reads don't town read me, especially when you're so dang obvious.

[Madoka]

i do but i don't think it's up to me to answer that?

I don't mind who answers. I'm looking for the data, not the response.

[Madoka]

In. Detail. Please stop with the insults.
You followed my votes everywhere else; why not follow me to Tet?

Where did I insult you? I'm sorry if anything I've said has come off that way.

Thank you for the explanation! That honestly alleviates half of my concerns. Since you said responses, I was looking for words not votes.

I haven't followed you anywhere. You just have an egocentric scumhunting strategy that causes you think people voting on the same wagon is your doing. Tet is town.

[Madoka]

I don't get the irony.

[Madoka]

I mean I just want that specific example. Ico can you help me out here?

[Madoka]

Almost I'm trying to read you here. I've spent hours/days on this game already, I'm not going to read through a large game to find a specific instance.

Also the fact that you're pressing so hard on that game and think your play resembles despite it not (at least at a glance) makes me think you really believe it.

[Madoka]

I just want to know if there's an instance of you reacting with such frustration after one post of someone casing you.

[Madoka]

Like I made a tiny case on you and you start throwing chairs. Imagine if Orange reacted in a similar proportion to your much more extensive case.

[Madoka]

It makes me feel like the salt is coming from the fact that you can't manipulate me because I'm unaware of you're meta whereas you can manipulate Ico/Looker who are. From scum!you pov you're playing perfectly to your town meta so it's upsetting that you're being called out by someone because they simply don't know your town meta.

[Madoka]

Eh, I may have had the wrong mental image of madoka as a player, don't think it overly changes my read of them though.

Do you mean because of my bravado?

[Madoka]

Eh, I may have had the wrong mental image of madoka as a player, don't think it overly changes my read of them though.

Do you mean because of my bravado?

Something like that, yeah.

It's a strategic persona based on the players that are in the game. It hurts that I disappointed you though.

Did 716 properly address your concern from 712?

[Madoka]

Thank you guys.

[Madoka]

Almost it's not so much about you refuting the argument as it is about how you respond to it. I think your response is fine.

I think I'm fine on 72.

[Madoka]

Orange and BM are you still open to lynching Hiraki?

Nah, sorry, think the dude's town.

If 72 is scum, then this is incredibly townie from Orange.

[Madoka]

I'm finished with the day. I'll think about reads post-flip. I'm going to go into my shell now.

[Madoka]

That's incredibly disappointing.

[Madoka]

I have to think again about Tet. I was only town reading because I thought they were crumbing psych.

[Madoka]

Looker did you miss that Orange claimed psychologist?

[Madoka]

I was joking about everything implicating you since you mentioned me associating you with multiple people before.

[Madoka]

72 can you address the questions asked and Hiraki's case on you?

[Madoka]

Any1 wanna flashwagon allomancer? I do

i prefer madoka at this point
really really disliking his position wrt to 'voting orange to please me'

Wait you're actually serious? In the words of Hiraki and happyorange: yikes.

[Madoka]

Also, as far as me being "egocentric" and you 'not following me': I have to assume that these are coincidence?

I didn't say you were egocentric. I said you have an egocentric scum hunting style. You vote players on the presumption that those who vote soon after are scum doing so out of opportunism. And yes those are coincidence.

How is Almost50 manipulating me?

He isn't.

Thank you for using links in your post.

[Madoka]

I meant the word yikes which you've used twice I believe.

[Madoka]

Eh, never playing another game here imo. Don't think I've been in many places more toxic and completely absent of any sense of empathy or the desire to understand and appreciate others. Makes me feel very grateful for what I have here at home. Pretty glad to be on the way out in this game.

This saddens me, I was really enjoying you (sans 712 and 753). There's a large variety of players and playstyles here. I really hope you don't let a sample of one game ruin it for you. I feel sympathize with your frustration:

Spoiler:

In post 362, Ame wrote:

5. On a scale of 0 to 10, how upset would you be if we lynched you today?

3 currently

why only a 3? you put playing mafia over all the other activities and seem passionate about it, being lynched wouldn't irk you?

Not at all! And honestly, a 3 is probably overshooting it. I feel more like a 0. I enjoy it, but it's just a game and there's other things I could be doing with my life. The only things that upset me in mafia are when people fail to try and empathize with one another (i.g. shutting down any further considerations once they get in a tunnel mindset), and unfairly being pushed for a slow response rate.

But I very much think that your philosophy regarding defending yourself conflicts with your desires. This is a social game and communication is key to understanding one another.

[Madoka]

feel

[Madoka]

VOTE: Orange

Assuming that Looker is counterclaiming. Will switch back if s[he] denies.

72offsuit (3) - Aloratom, happyorange, Hiraki
DrDolittle (3) - DkKoba, 72, Allomancer
happyorange (3) - Almost50, Looker, Madoka
Allomancer (2) - Tet, DrDolittle
Hiraki (1) - Battle Mage
Madoka (1) - Iconeum

not voting (0)


with 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch

(expired on 2020-04-11 09:00:00)

[Madoka]

No this one isn't. Orange claimed Psychologist and you are still voting them, therefore you either missed their claim or are counterclaiming.

[Madoka]

BM unvoted Hiraki and Voted for ddl.
I've mentioned the claim to Looker twice now. S[h]e saw it.

[Madoka]

How. Is my sheeping of dk scummy?
I clealry stated i wanted to lynch DDL. DK said No to that at that stage.

It's scummy because you're willing to throw away your reads and put the burden of responsibility on Dk. There's no reason why Dk's reads should be more reliable than yours.

[Madoka]

72 can you address the questions asked and Hiraki's case on you?

What questions are still outstanding?

This:

Madoka, why do you think Orange is suspicious for arguing something so obviously wrong, and anti-town, when it was already pretty clear the consensus was against him?

I'm not convinced yet Orange would stick his neck out like that for no reason if he was scum, much more likely to fade into background agreeing with majority.

Not going to elaborate on Hiraki read yet, as still possible he/she will give off some tells. But wanted to reflect initial view, largely as a reminder for me later.

Agree, I think the ship had sailed and Orange wasn't going to convince anyone, so I don;t think scum presses the point here, but would rather back off and blend in with the rest of the players.

Orange vs DK feels more like

TvT

to me

72 did you ever explain how you got TvT from this when there was no Orange v DK?

I was also hoping you could address the points brought up by Hiraki in 691.

[Madoka]

The TvT thing was so long ago i cant even remember y i got that vibe.
If you want to lynch me for that then be my guest

Could you review it to see what your thought process was?

[Madoka]

VOTE: ddl

[Madoka]

VOTE: Ico

[Madoka]

This is so surface level thinking. I don't think I've ever expected level 1 thoughts out of you.

Seen it before:

Spoiler:

VOTE: DrDoLittle

for voting a townie

Voting a townie isn't scum indicative. Voting a townie that is playing towny is.

do you consider your vote on DDL an rvs vote or are you serious about it?

VOTE: ame

That is neat.

Voting a townie isn't scum indicative. Voting a townie that is playing towny is.

do you consider your vote on DDL an rvs vote or are you serious about it?

Yes

No cheating

Answer the question please (RVS vote or serious?)

Both. I always make an educated vote in RVS based on the available data. However, because the data is so limited, even an educated guess approaches randomness. In this case, I made a guess based on the gut reaction of

two posts

, so while it was "serious," it should hardly be taken seriously. But say like the game had to be decided right there, I would have voted DDL based on the information available.

Voting a townie isn't scum indicative. Voting a townie that is playing towny is.

Things are going to be

hectic

with you around.

VOTE: Hectic

VOTE: compath serious vote

In particular, I read Compath's joke as forced because the hectic pun is obvious and seems like something that has probably been made many times. From this, I thought Compath was either,

A. Awkward scum
B. Someone who has played with hectic and was hinting at who he was

The latter was my interpretation after thinking about it, and if it were the case it was town indicative to me because it would be unnecessarily putting himself out there / providing information to hectic. I scum read DDL for his serious vote because I felt he also picked up on the awkwardness, but instead of thinking it through to the alternative option (B), he stopped at (A), which was scum indicative to me (pushing over sorting).

can we please get some votes on this please

it's such a bad faked scumread

Let me rephrase that

You read compath like he's awkward scum
But you somehow go to a hard townread on it

and you then proceed to scumread someone who's scumreading and voting someone YOU read like awkward scum?

i don't know how to phrase this properly but i hope ya'll understand lol

You're way overthinking things or just going for LHF. I begin the game thinking from the start, no matter how little there is to go on. That being said, it's still very much just (virtually random) conjecture at that point. My opinion on both Compath changed within the same page (I didn't like Compath's responses and I liked DDL ignoring us). Compath being solid townie was hyperbole / RVS shenanegans.

Compath being solid townie was hyperbole / RVS shenanegans.

well no

you just said it was a serious read?

[Madoka]

VOTE: Ico

you scumread me?

or is this just a big OMGUS?

Yes, you're pushing in bad faith and going for low hanging fruit (and have been literally). This is scum Ico.

I don't see how you could defend orange that hard for so long, and when he claims a power role that did not get counterclaimed, you jump on the wagon just because looker voted there?

Sure you do.

[Madoka]

@DK trust me on this one. I promise.

[Madoka]

Ico, you're literally doing the exact same thing:

@madoka, were you or were you not townreading orange prior?

The answer to this is obviously yes.

if you were so strongly townreading him, how were you THAT easy to think it was a counterclaim rather then continue your townread and think looker was either playing shenanigans or simply didn't see the claim?

what is this supposed to mean? You wanna vote luca but think it's compath + me? After you just 'towncased' me based on that RQS?

I'm not lynching anyone but Ico. This is scum Ico.

[Madoka]

Wtf happened to the DDL lynch. Zzzzz

Vote Ico with me. Or is you coming in here chiming on ddl meant to derail?

[Madoka]

Dk, trust me on this one. End of Day is where I'm at my best.

[Madoka]

@Looker, sorry about before. Help me with this.

[Madoka]

Dope.

[Madoka]

Wtf happened to the DDL lynch. Zzzzz

Terrible end of day by madoka

We lynch this with fire tomorrow.

[Madoka]

@Orange @Looker @ddl @Tet

Call to arms

[Madoka]

I think you're trying to appeal to Dk's town read of 72 there. You say it as if you've been town reading him or if there's something about his play that makes him obvtown. Your last mention of him was here where you mentioned thinking his wagon would be meaningful while subtly attempting to derail it / push for getting Orange in hammer range. 72 popping in as we're going at it to remind us of the ddl wagon is very suspicious and I believe he was attempting to derail. I also think his "Madoka bad EoD" is a chainsaw.

[Madoka]

We'll see after the flip though. I don't want to get too far ahead.

[Madoka]

I'm going to go eat some cereal and watch Futureman.

Let's do this everyone.

[Madoka]

VOTE: ddl

[Madoka]

16 hours. Anyone off ddl that doesn't vote him in their next post is advocating for a no lynch.

[Madoka]

16 hours. Anyone off ddl that doesn't vote him in their next post is advocating for a no lynch.

Nope. I'll be around to jump on the DDL wagon if needed. But for now, there's plenty enough time to lynch your friend Iconeum!

I'm good.

[Madoka]

?

[Madoka]

16 hours. Anyone off ddl that doesn't vote him in their next post is advocating for a no lynch.

Nope. I'll be around to jump on the DDL wagon if needed. But for now, there's plenty enough time to lynch your friend Iconeum!

I'm good.

You're not that good

What did you mean here, BM?

[Madoka]

Sheep Tet

Would you swing to Aloratom?

[Madoka]

@72, why me over DDL today?

Because DK wanted your lynch and I didnt think we had numbers for a DDL lynch

We do now.

[Madoka]

If orange is PR.

Why wouldn't they be?

[Madoka]

Have a lot of problems with Tet's play the past ~24 hours,

Agree with this, but I haven't really looked into them. Something about their reasoning seems hmm serpentine(?). Not sure if that's the correct word or if I'm using it correctly.

[Madoka]

Gödel, Escher, Bach

[Madoka]

No.

[Madoka]

What did you mean here, BM?

[Madoka]

I'll follow you sheriff.

VOTE: Allomancer

[Madoka]

Your suggestion that dkkoba should keep his confirmed townie quiet until he dies is appalling.

You're the only one that thinks so, which if you are humble enough, is an indicator that you should probably self-reflect. 1v1ing the clear is not a wise use of discussion.

[Madoka]

I don't mind who we lynch. We have no unity. I think the best thing to do for now is just lynch scummy slots.

[Madoka]

Oh yea, what did you mean here, BM?

What did you mean here, BM?

[Madoka]

I mentioned it before. He's 50/50 in every game and naturally scummy. I don't think there's a valid way to read him.

Did you read the posts I quoted from Strawberry btw?

[Madoka]

So you don't want to answer Madoka's question, got it. No pressure!

The question was dumb.

I wasn't certain whether you were making a play on words or using

good

in the same sense that I was. I ask because this is out of line with my initial impression of your personality/play style. It pinged me as potentially coming from scum that had information that I didn't and that your judgement was based on the fact that I was pushing a town player or players. If this is not the case, could you explain what you were drawing from to make your assessment?

Additionally, is this normal behavior from you? I mentioned earlier that I was playing in a macho manner due to the player dynamics of this game. I'm currently attempting to sort whether your behavior is due to (a) being scum, (b) contamination, (c) similar reasons as me, or (d) your natural disposition.

[Madoka]

I did read those, and I don't see the link.

They are both pushes in bad faith made to set me up to fail regardless of my responses. In strawberry you put me in a position where if I responded that my ddl vote

was

serious it would mean I was scum and if my ddl vote

wasn't serious

it would mean I was scum. Such arguments typically agenda-driven as they leave no way for you to conclude that the player is town. Similarly, here there was no path for you path for you to conclude that I was town (or that my actions were NAI) regardless of how I answered. For example, 734 disproved your 730 which undermined your argument in 724. A solve-oriented person pushing in good faith would conclude there that my actions/reasoning were consistent with my perspective and therefore the case was invalid. You, however, simply ignored 734 and continued on with your read without further consideration and with nothing new to support it. Furthermore, you asked me a question that presumably was meant to get a better read on me, which I answered in 740 (and which I believe was fairly town indicative based on the points made and the stream of conscious nature); however, you did not follow up on it and again continued your push without further consideration and nothing new to back it up.

Furthermore, your read was based on superficial scuminess, which is often indicative that a player is intentionally eschewing deeper analysis, as doing so would conflict with their agenda. In particular, I am referring to these two things:

Your desperate seesawing if orange is telling enough.

I love stuff like this and it's why it's so easy to win as scum. If I were scum here I'd definitely be defending town!Orange for this very reason. It increases paranoia, making town more likely to lynch them. Then on their town flip I look good.

Kind of what ddl was doing earlier.

wait this

is

what you are doing

lol

VOTE: madoka

'scum!me defends orange because of the easy credit i'd get when he flips town'

-> defends orange like a boss

thanks

VOTE: OrangeAssuming that Looker is counterclaiming. Will switch back if s[he] denies.

can we please lynch this?

They are both pressing on superficial aspects about my play while ignoring the motivation/intent from town/scum!Madoka.

[Madoka]

I think Dk should keep the clear secret for today unless it is Allomancer. If the clear is Allo, Dk should let us know soon. I think someone mentioned lynching BM. I don't think we should go that direction today. If BM is town, he will be killed due to the tracker crumbs. And if he's not killed, he will be cleared by claiming tracker tomorrow.

[Madoka]

It definitely isn't on you Tet. I think you were one of town's most valuable components. Great job scum team. There's no way I ever would have scum read Almost by himself. My read was entirely based on on Ejj.