Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[skitter30]

Heya all!

vla fridays and Saturdays

Also cuz of my new job i'm largely gonna be around in the evenings/after work

VOTE: lilith

Also i'm intrigued that scum picked informed, i prob would have picked multitasking

[skitter30]

^

[skitter30]

Nah, just making an observation that's meant to spark conversation (like it did!).

And I've been scum in x|y setups twice and multitasking is vastly more useful imo, you can get a p decent sense of the spread of roles just from knowing where scum sits in the draft + like two flips/claims

[skitter30]

Also obligatory max one scum in each of the sets of 4's and 5's, imo

[skitter30]

Also obligatory max one scum in each of the sets of 4's and 5's, imo

no that is hooplas trick

you mean she normally makes that observation or that scum!her would deliberately double up?

[skitter30]

doubling down, i see.

did you get outvoted in the scum PT?

i mean, if i did, i kinda doubt i'd be airing scum dirty's laundry here, or that i'd choose to make a point of it
and if i were scum ... there's a p decent chance i just talk everyone into agreeing to multitasking, depending on who exactly comprises the scumteam

[skitter30]

Also early townpings on uncrowned

[skitter30]

VOTE: penguin

[skitter30]

Or they werent in the last game?

I think that the info gained from picking informed isnt that much - a reasonably savvy scumteam should be able to approximate that sort of info once they know of like two claims

Multitasking also makes the neighborizer bucker not as ~appealing~ imo to town , imo, i think if there's multitasking scum are more likely to pick from that pair

Also townpings on ss
Not-townpings on penguin and lilith, but it's early and those are subject to change ^

[skitter30]

it's early and those are subject to change ^

Speaking of not-townpings, why feel the need to mention this?

Cuz the things i'm getting the badpings on might get resolved in short order, so my opinion might change

[skitter30]

I guess my feeling om doubling up is that the wifom boost scum gets isnt worth deliberately throwing away the chance to get prs - in late game the 'doubling up' reasoning for clearing someone hasnt been given that much weight in my experience in practice

But if someone thinks that wifom boost is worth it, the calculation becomes different, obviously

[skitter30]

I guess it's just like in early game you might get a pass if you're doubled with a flipped scum, but in late game if you have a bunch of mechanical clears and you're in a very firm poe pool (which tends to happen in these games), that's not going to help you that much

[skitter30]

Eh fair enough
It's a strategy that would never occur to me to do, tho

[skitter30]

Sure, but there isnt oodles to talk about otherwise yet

[skitter30]

VOTE: Uncrowned

icky vote

[skitter30]

y r u voting them?

[skitter30]

i mean it's partially an icky vote because you're forming a pretty sizeable wagon on the guy who i have the most townpings on so

[skitter30]

i think we should wagon penguin!

[skitter30]

Makes sense.

VOTE: skitter though I agree wit the concept, the way he said “icky vote” felt a bit like buddying to me.

*she!

why buddying?

[skitter30]

I feel like a more natural response would’ve been to ask the reasons, it’s a bit early to be emotionally attached to your reads in the way you seemed to be.

- i did ask for reasons, part of the reason i voted is because his response was rather unsatisfactory
- idk what you mean by 'emotionally attached to my reads'

[skitter30]

oh sorry: part of the reason i doubled down is cuz your response was rather unsatisfactory

you're right ^

[skitter30]

I'm not sure why you would expect anything different from me.

idk can i cite magic/soulread? you feel like how i think scum!you would feel
or actually trying to, like, quantify it: i think that town!you would not have cast that vote just for 'wagonz', and i think that town!you would have also engaged with me saying i thought uncrowned was townie

[skitter30]

VOTE: lilith

oh but this was a good vote

[skitter30]

omgus retaliatory vote?
otherwise idk what you thought would happen

[skitter30]

hmmmmm

[skitter30]

infinity's kinda meh

[skitter30]

sorry, to be clear i meant in a 'trying to determine if he's town' sort of sense!

[skitter30]

Skitter are you still feeling that penguin is scummy?

i am vacillating but i am contemplating voting lilith rn

[skitter30]

Sure, but there isnt oodles to talk about otherwise yet

quack

quack indeed

[skitter30]

VOTE: lilith

[skitter30]

sorry, to be clear i meant in a 'trying to determine if he's town' sort of sense!

Slight over reaction I think.

Oh no

[skitter30]

Obligatory: dont townread me for that, i'm fully capable of writing/efforting such posts as scum, etc

[skitter30]

If we're comparing Skitter to Peta (who you're voting) in terms of non-setup related discussion, they're pretty similar, no?

In what way?

[skitter30]

Actually, probably more noteworthy is skitter's response to that read. She just took it in stride and told JV it was NAI instead of pointing out that she didn't have any long posts.

I dont have a sense for how long my posts are this gane in particular, and i get someone (wrongly) townreading me for something along those lines nearly every game i play. But post length/how many posts/efforting is nai for me, and i'm reasonably confident you (or someone else who knows me) would have complained if i *didnt* point that out

[skitter30]

I don't know. It seems more unskitterly than anything else.

My instinct is to say that it's more likely scum looking to grab towncred by pointing out why she shouldn't be townread, but I don't know if skitter thinks like that.

I point out it's nai as both alignments

[skitter30]

I dont think jv's comment is as bad as its being made out to be

[skitter30]

Lilith, dave's vote was meh too
Hoopla's i'm also a bit iffy on but i think i need some more there before fully making an opinion

[skitter30]

Tbf i forgot she was at the top of the draft
Doesnt mean i cant wagon her tho

[skitter30]

Tbf i forgot she was at the top of the draft
Doesnt mean i cant wagon her tho

Literally the wagon started BECAUSE she was the top of the draft.

I'm wagoning her for doing a lack of townie things
Tbf she hasnt been in the thread, but i imagine she would be if town

If it helps, she's the person i can read most accurately in this pl, and her reactions to being wagoned upon actually showing up will be quite insightful. (She herself has acknowledged on more than one occasion that i'm quite good at reading her, i can pull quotes if necessary)

The fact that she's the top of the draft is sort of annoying but not like gonna prevent me from trying to sort her.

[skitter30]

I mean i wasnt until people called me out on it ...
Either way I'm pretty sure scum!her knows that i'd prioritize sorting her, and the mere fact that i'm voting her should have alerted her to the fact if she didnt

[skitter30]

I dont think that i particularly need to go out of my way to keep what i'm doing secret - like i said, scum!lilith would have been tipped off already by virtue of the fact that i'm voting her

[skitter30]

Which game was that, remind me?

[skitter30]

I mean i wasnt until people called me out on it ...
Either way I'm pretty sure scum!her knows that i'd prioritize sorting her, and the mere fact that i'm voting her should have alerted her to the fact if she didnt

So then you don't think it will work, or you don't think it matters?

I'm not sure what you're asking, sorry

[skitter30]

Not really, which is what i was trying to get across to peta

[skitter30]

Which game was that, remind me?

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81510 - Newbie 1971

Skimming briefly through your ISO it turns out you weren't doing it as much as you were just interacting with your buddy like any other slot. You didn't really start doing much "defending" (if you want to call it that) until he was getting wagoned at end of D1.

I guess the difference here is JV is getting wagoned now

Oh that one
Hmmmmmm
To summarize how i interacted with my partner in that game is not necessarily like ~broadly indicative~ of how i buddy/interact with my partner

I need to like pretend to do my job now but i will get back to this and elaborate tonight ^

[skitter30]

It's basically autopilot
Pooky in ~that~ micro, albeit tbf it may have happened before you repped in. This was one of the most recent games i've played in
In fact our favorite duck mod felt the need to point this out on my behalf! Multiple times!

[skitter30]

I dont think jv's comment is as bad as its being made out to be

What do you mean by bad

Like it's obviously wrong, for multiple reasons. Them doubling down on it is probably slightly > rand scum (since admitting fault is towny), but not significantly so.

It doesnt feel scummy to me

[skitter30]

To summarize how i interacted with my partner in that game is not necessarily like ~broadly indicative~ of how i buddy/interact with my partner

basically in newbie games i try to help newbie scum partners by bolstering them up a bit, esp. to make sure they understand the game and enjoy playing it. so i might be more defensive/partner-y than i would be otherwise in order to try to help them be in a bit of a better position, even knowing that i might look bad upon their potential scumflip. basically i try to prioritize {positive game experience while they're alive} over {if they happen to flip making sure i look good afterwards to enable me to win}

in non-newbie games i'm a lot more cognizant of cultivating interactions in such a way that i don't look partner-y with my partners

[skitter30]

ok having 3 players lurk when we have 7 day deadlines is like :/

[skitter30]

i changed my mind, penguin might be town
i'm also getting ~unquantifiable~ scumpings from hoopla

[skitter30]

i think JV is town, because it seems like their wagon started as a town-driven CW to lillith before hoopla jumped onto it.

sorry, let me rephrase this with some more clarity. basically, i think JV's wagon began with town (lillith and petapan) and i think hoopla is scum that jumped on it. because hoopla put a vote down there, it makes me townlean on JV.

why are lilith and petapan town, and i don't get the cw-to-lilith business if you're positing lilith is town anyways

[skitter30]

indeed

[skitter30]

jackson wagon was hot and new
lillith wagon was an rvs wagon based essentially solely on the fact that they were first in the PL

penguin you can call my takes bad but calling me scum for them is a terrible take yourself

That's not why i'm voting lilith, no
I'm really, really baffled how a 'town-driven cw' can be scum indicative of anything

[skitter30]

* sorry. How it can be town-indicative of jv
Like i'm kinda missing the connection between 'town-driven cw' and 'town indicative for jv'

[skitter30]

Skit what's your take on Peta?

Guttown

[skitter30]

Ok how do you get from that thought to 'this is town-indicative for jv'

[skitter30]

Skit what's your take on Peta?

Infinity is +town too

[skitter30]

^

[skitter30]

Oh i also have some scumping on dave, i forgot to say that

[skitter30]

@skitter what did you not like about my vote on JV?

what information do you expect to get from a wagon that interacting with me wouldn't give?

I actually dont have much thoughts on your jv vote!
Or more accurately, the jv vote by itself is fine and i dont have an opinion on it, but the lack of contributing real content (i.e. in that you only made an rvs vote) at a stage of the game where there was actually real things to talk about felt kinda scummy from you

Idk if i'm necessarily expecting a particular bit of information from wagoning you, so much as it was a: 'i'm trying to get your attention and lets see what you'll do next!' type vote
Also i'm like soulreading you as scum off your entrance so decided to vote you till i got more to work with, which would hopefully be prompted by being voted

[skitter30]

I think Dunn's response looks better than skitter's.

That's fine!

[skitter30]

skitter, why do you think SS is towny?

Feels a bit more invested/involved than i think scum!him would be

I am really sad to say that i think you rolled scum this game

[skitter30]

It's even worse in that there's next to no way i'm getting you voted out today, probably

[skitter30]

It was an attempt at telepathic communication inducing you to return

More seriously tho it obviously wouldnt make you come back, but would give me a way to read you once you did

@lilith

[skitter30]

Ok how do you get from that thought to 'this is town-indicative for jv'

So it doesnt get lost in the shuffle ^

[skitter30]

I don't have any townpings from SS from so far, which... based on my read meter for him, means he's probably scum.

Hmmmmmm

[skitter30]

Ok i wanna see what ss has to say on that before forming an opinion

Pedit yeah since they hadnt answered it @dave

[skitter30]

oh okay

i gave jv townpoints for the wagon bc i don't see scum!hoopla bussing their partner in that way

This might be a silly question, but if you're so convinced hoopla is scum that you're townreading jv off of apparently anti-partner-y associatives ... why are voting penguin again?

Also i think you're townreads of lilith and peta are unfounded

[skitter30]

I am *fascinated* by the lilith/ss dynamic on this page but will try to use words to explain why on the morrow when i am less tired

[skitter30]

I don't have any townpings from SS from so far, which... based on my read meter for him, means he's probably scum.

Hmmmmmm

okay so I have a super crazy wild theory that SS and skitter are scum together and the reason that skitter's scumreading me so early is because they know I can read SS really well

So i thought from the first quote that you were gonna double down on scum!ss in an attempt to force me to choose between my own ss townread and listening to scum you on him (given that we both know i know you can read him well), in order to divert me off of you

But like this doesnt really feel like a real thought

Outside of this super crazy theory do you have a read on me?

[skitter30]

Dammit lilith you are scum aren't you

She is

[skitter30]

and her reaction to me talking about you also felt partnery to me.

Oh?
In what way?

[skitter30]

S_S feels like the voice of reason in this game which to me feels townie

I was just thinking that!

[skitter30]

I'm having a hard time understand ing tgp's thought process to the point that it feels like an amorphous disconnected blob that idk how to assign a read too

Like it's there, and i read it, but i have no conclusions

Like i cant wrap my head around his thought process. That doesn't mean it can't be townie (or scummy), ut just means idk what to do with it

[skitter30]

@Skit @S_S @Infinity

sorry to be self-indulgent but do you have any thoughts on Post 552

I have some scumvibes on dave, yeah
Hes like popping in to comment on the wrong things / on inane things

On an unrelated topic, would you ever consider voting out the top of the draft day1?

[skitter30]

now that she's around, she seems fluffy and whimsical. on pure intuition leaning town, but generally i find this player archetype hard to read. i'll likely be relying on group wisdom to guide me here - seems other folks know her meta.

Except town!her usually brings a lot more content, is more focused, doesn't ask inane questions which basically dont go anywhere (but this is something she does as scum!), and is capable of quickly becoming an obvtown force to be reckoned with

[skitter30]

dunnstral - played a game as scum against him recently, and he was a dominant voice on D1 that seemed quite obviously town. granted, i had confirmed info that game which can sometimes trick you into thinking someone is more town than they actually are, but i haven't seen similar town energy from him yet.

He has towngames like the one you describe, but he also has towngames where he's more underwhelming and absent

I approve of your assessment of me : thumbsup:

[skitter30]

I don't like the fact they refuse to read in the 4s or whatnot, I feel that's just stupid for town to do.

^

[skitter30]

I like this wagon

I support the righteous and glorious lilith wagon, but recognize that my efforts have a fairly decent chance of being futile today due to her position in the draft

But i shall continue to pursue my quest regardless

[skitter30]

I dont really see scum!peta

[skitter30]

This focus on doubles/multiples is boring and wifom-y

[skitter30]

tgp

I dont think they're that bad tbh

Ignoring the 4's cuz they're doubled is silly, let's just focus on whoever we think is scum!

[skitter30]

Except town!her usually brings a lot more content, is more focused, doesn't ask inane questions which basically dont go anywhere (but this is something she does as scum!), and is capable of quickly becoming an obvtown force to be reckoned with

Maybe?

I don't feel like she exhibited these characteristics that much in the last game I played with her. She did become obvtown but like on D4 after I died, and I died still being paranoid of her.

I guess in my sample set those features were all p prominent in the towngames, and absent in the scumgames

[skitter30]

you seem to know lilith well. so, on her specifically, have you had a history of catching her as scum? any recommended scumgames of hers that you can link to that would typify her scumgame? maybe a couple as town that showcase her obvtown'ing it up?

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=82824 - me and a hydra of lilith/ss formed the scumteam. first game with her, i got somewhat acquainted with her

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=83235 - shortly thereafter we played in this game, where i was town ... and ss and lilith were both scum. caught ss. lilith i tought was sufficient different from the prior game that i was defending her for a while, but i eventually realized the error of my ways, and we voted out the slot. there was some sort of mutual townreading thinig going on between lilith and ss here. i think that game looks quite a lot like this one

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=83501 - funky theme game. won't get into all the specifics but tldr both of us thought we were multiball scum day1. so i was reading her (me thinking i was multiball scum) as if she was town, and basically came to a very very very erarly and hard townread on her, that she verified. and she played in a way strongly associated with her towngame because she also thought she was multiball scum so she could scumhunt. i didn't explain that really well but basically i thought she was town, and she was behaving in a way similar to how town!her would behave, and quickly identified it

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=83833 - most recently this one. was a cluster of a game but me/lilith/ss were all town. the latter two repped in and i formed p strong townread on lilith fairly quickly.

notable quotes from the last game in the above context:

Spoiler:

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

but actually I pride myself on being able to read SS correctly. that is maybe my one strong point as a mafia player???

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

i feel p good with town!lilith and town!ss i think, btw

Please explain

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

I don’t think I’ve made it past D1 as town on ms since returning

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

lilith do you think skitter's strong townread on you is justified based on the reasons she gave? Are you out of your scumrange?

uh.. yes and yes. when you asked for what was out of my scumrange, I was going to give the cheeky answer and quote my whole ISO. skitter is probably in top 2 MS players in terms of knowing my scumgame (SS should be the other one). I am very very clearly not anywhere close to my scumgame.

I don't think it's particularly AI though because if she's scum, she knows that's the answer I'm expecting from her

oh this is the one i was looking for ^

[skitter30]

Subject: Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

what about her play this game is out of her scumrange?

she's being assertive with her reads, and there's an underlying pov that's driving most of her posts in this game

like i can actually follow how she's thinking about the game, what's forming her opinions, and why

lacking from this game, but is indicative of the third and fourth games on the list, while lacking in the second one too
incidentally she was scum in the second one, and was town (or thought she was multiball scum, whatever, in this case it boils down to the same thing) in the third and fourth

[skitter30]

lilith

I appreciate the callback

[skitter30]

VOTE: lilith2013

a) i am noting that your scumreads of lilith/dave/hoopla are fairly unoriginal
b) also noting that if lilith is indeed scum this vote should not get any towncred imo ^

[skitter30]

In fact I think "these thoughts sound like things a townie could reasonably believe" is pretty much what scum shoot for in making fake reads.

right, that was basically what i was getting at

[skitter30]

It's about time someone had the guts to say this.

i mean to be fair i've been acknowledging this for pages already
i'm also not sure i care that much about it

[skitter30]

i'm deadly serious

[skitter30]

Just to summarize where i'm at:

Town: uncrowned,
Town-ish: ss, peta, penguin, infinity
Idk: jv, pine, hoopla, dunn, tgp
Scum-ish: dgb, dave
Scum: lilith

[skitter30]

But I also don’t think she’s as good at reading me as she thinks (tangentially, I would have agreed with her before my most recent game, but after playing a mini normal I think the number of players in a game impacts my gameplay quite a lot; and in retrospect, this applied before my site-hiatus as well - any game over 9 players basically has me flailing around regardless of alignment.) so I think town!skitter would believe what she’s saying about me, but again... I don’t particularly think it’s fakeable.

Citing your own words on my ability to read you
And hectic's game was a 13p

And i think that town!you takes a harder position on your read on me either way. And tries to divert me more, no matter what you think of my alignment

Have a great work day!

[skitter30]

Of jk+++?

[skitter30]

Just gonna reiterate that i really, really dont care that she's the top of the draft

[skitter30]

Lilith is making some pretty gross posts, yes.

I'm not sure that gross posting is alignment indicative for her.

She literally looks like jk+++

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

So no funny business happens but please note my votr is on in spirit ^^^

[skitter30]

So e-1 in spirit

[skitter30]

And i will also just note the *one* thing that gives me pause is that there's ... remarkably little resistance given her spot in the draft if she's scum

[skitter30]

She's scum

[skitter30]

She literally looks like jk+++

I can't really speak to that game because I wasn't trying to read her there. But she also doesn't look that far off from Mini 2160.

Uhhhhhh what similarities do you see?
She has like 1000 posts there and i took a look at the first like 12, enough to verify that it looks transparently differnet to this game, and quite similar to classic!town!lilith

Ngl it's slightly alarming that you think the above

[skitter30]

@ss so scum!lilith just exudes this 'ugh i totally hate playing scum and dont even want to post' thing
But town!lilith likes being in thread, is like ~carefree~ and assertive and opinionated
That's how you can see town!lilith in the other game in like 12 posts, and why i think it's scummy that it's lacking here

Penguin what do u think of ss?

[skitter30]

Not at the time, but in retrospect that's how i learned to read her and where the strong townreads came from the last two times

[skitter30]

Because in my mind it's all part of the same vibe but I guess i didnt explain it sufficiently so i'm trying to again in a different wat

[skitter30]

Because in my mind it's all part of the same vibe but I guess i didnt explain it sufficiently so i'm trying to again in a different wat

skitter can you link some posts this game that give you the impression that lilith doesn't want to post and explain why you think that?

Later tonight, ya, dont wanna do this on my phone

[skitter30]

Because in my mind it's all part of the same vibe but I guess i didnt explain it sufficiently so i'm trying to again in a different wat

skitter can you link some posts this game that give you the impression that lilith doesn't want to post and explain why you think that?

Later tonight, ya, dont wanna do this on my phone

I mean scum already knows she’s a powerful PR

and we already know that too, so why are we wagoning her

the scum are already informed of their own roles as well as another thing no one picked and publicizing lillith's role seems like it helps scum

we already know lillith is a powerful pr. for purposes of actually eliminating her, what about her claim helps town?

Heya what do u think of my alignment?

[skitter30]

Hmmm ngl i'm kinda expecting more scumreads given that i'm like pushing the top-draftee this hard

[skitter30]

Why would that be cause for a scumread?

Idk
I feel like i should have more pushback and more people suspicous of my motivations

[skitter30]

I mean, I'm pushing back, but not because I'm suspicious of your motivations. I don't think you're scum unless lilith is.

You think this could be a protracted bus?

[skitter30]

I think it's plausible for you to say "I'm scum with lilith and everyone knows how well I can read her, so I better bus her and hope people talk me out of it because she's top in the draft."

At the very least, I think that's a lot more likely than scum-you deciding to deathtunnel town-lilith when it means you probably die afterward.

Fair enough

[skitter30]

ummmmm maybe because you’re doing scum’s work for them??? we all know I’m a PR unless I was a complete doofus and didn’t submit a pick. if you’re town, scum are fucking salivating over the thought that they didn’t have to do anything and I got handed to them on a platter.

Since the jig’s kind of up at this point - I knew I’d be an obvious NK target for being first draft pick, I was hoping to not be incredibly obvtown to the point that it got me killed N1 so I could maybe get something useful done before I died. Hence being a lurksack. Unfortunately I underestimated how awful I play when under pressure and your determination to wagon me.

anyway, there are a bunch of people on the wagon for shitty reasons/“for pressure”/“because someone else wanted it” - I think DGB and infinity are scummy as hell, their votes are opportunistic, I agree with peta that DGB’s catchup post was a whole lot of head-scratching. I’m not sure I’m up for my typical play atm given that I... think I have covid, but I’m gonna try to be coherent before I fall asleep again.

A few things:
- i really, really hope you're ok and feel better soon
- like i said the one thing that i'm uncertain of is that i'd expect more pushback
- i did think of that possibility, that you were trying to be under the radar to avoid eating the nk ... but i think it's semi-likely to happen anyways. And i guess if you're town you corrected *all the way* to the other extreme because you look like scum!you atm
- if you're trying to avoid getting nk'd so that you can be useful before you die ... you're not doing a very good job of it
- infinity is town i'm p sure

I can back off tho if you're sick and unable to play just now tho

Dgb is a good wagon too

And please feel better soon <3 <3 <3

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Why?

I find scum more likely to say "I may be bad but not scum" since people don't like to admit they're wrong. "feels a little off" is way down in confidence from where you were just a second ago too.

This reasoning still applies, I think tgp is trying to get read as "bad town"

penguin you can call my takes bad but calling me scum for them is a terrible take yourself

This is not quite "I may be bad but I'm not scum" but it's close enough. "Feels a little off" is something you'd use to describe a post from someone you were otherwise townreading, not a hard scumread usually.

Jackson why are you focusing on NAI stuff so much, this is literally just about theory.

Jackson why are you focusing on NAI stuff so much, this is literally just about theory.

I don't see it as nai but if you want to explain why that'd be neat

Like, s_s made a post about his opinion on mafia in general (i.e., that good reads are hard to get as town or fake as scum). Do you think he could be lying?

@lilith these felt like a townie approach to me ^

[skitter30]

I think DGB and infinity are scummy as hell, their votes are opportunistic

LOL

I hardly had any votes

I'm p sure rhat's not what she was trying to say ....

[skitter30]

I am feeling like maybe give lilith a *bit* of space to see if anything comes of it, and want to vote dgb in the meanwhile

This isnt an indefinite pass tho, and if she doesnt town it up soon (exceptions made for being sick etc) i'll go back there ^

VOTE: dgb

[skitter30]

Dgb! Should i be voting you?

[skitter30]

Dgb! Should i be voting you?

[skitter30]

I don't like the way skitter is pushing this, the other voters were rvs at the time

What are your thoughts on the more recent voters

[skitter30]

This is true
I'm feeling more and more that i may have been pushing a wagon on town!lilith, as there was little resistance, and it collapsed as soon as i moved off and wasnt calling for her head anymore
Like there's for sure scum in the people randomly moving off as i did

[skitter30]

A lot of people just hopped off of Lilith. From l-1 to l-5

this is alarming to me.

when a wagon collapses for no apparent reason, it's usually because it was artificially inflated (ie; scum driven), which implies lilith is town. skitter was the only person who put in real effort for her lilith vote. everyone else seemed to be riding on her coattails.

who's scum?

i think DGB/davesaz was the tipping point and most suspect. i probably prefer davesaz over DGB, if only because DGB is doubled up with pine.

VOTE: davesaz

Huh actually looking at the votes the people who moved off are people i'm largely townreading ...
Except for like hoopla

[skitter30]

The thing about that is that you said in when you unvoted that Lilith was still a target for you.

Since you're being TR by many in the game, with you saying that, I think the chances scum jump off the wagon that quick are less likely, considering a Lilith lynch still looks like it's still potentially on the cards.

I worded this in a dumb way but it's late and I don't know how to make it better LOL

So the people still on wagon are the way to go then! Looks like my dbg vote was a good one lol

[skitter30]

This will be an intriguing vc later

[skitter30]

Around for a bit, catching up now

[skitter30]

So I'm pretty certain I am today's elim based on petapan's say so that my catch up post of 30 pages wasn't good enough.

I'm not sure this is the sole reason you're getting wagoned ...

[skitter30]

I believe it’s standard practice in this setup to make sure your role is public knowledge? So

hardclaim cop

to begin with

Firstly, hi mena!!

Secondly: uhhhhh in the last iteration of this game i was in, you were scum and lolclaimed cop in your first post (a role which you decidedly did not have) ....

@ dunn

[skitter30]

And it took you two whole minutes to come to this conclusion?

Tbf after the game filled but before it fired he told me he was gonna try to snag an empty slot if one became available ^

[skitter30]

what i know about pine is i got him eliminated once long ago when i was scum and he was obvtown. also had a kinda trash scumgame but that was also forever ago so i assume no longer true

Pine now has a notoriously good scumgame and is actively more enthusiastic when rolling scum (although he can strategically lurk). It’s ++town for me that he let himself be replaced instead of hitting the minimum activity requirements, which is something he could definitely have done if he was scum and lurking intentionally instead of bc he just wasn’t engaged as town

Also uh i'm not sure i'm townreading you

[skitter30]

infinity 324?

*ding ding ding ding ding*

Goes the gameshow scumfinding bell!

VOTE: infinity

I'm not vibing this

[skitter30]

@S_S I think skitt has mostly got increased equity there because she's generally steered things back towards being in lil/DGB and has defused pressure on infinity whenever it's come up which are things I could see her doing with a partner

although now I write it out it does seem less likely, and that she would prob just bus

Uh i'm not sure this is an accurate assessment of mu treatment towards infinity, esp sincd i think he was only pressured like once iirc

And i think it's kinda weird that you're framing this as 'defusing pressure on infinity' vs 'stating i dont scumread him'

[skitter30]

I guess it's like a BoP-esque thing really, but you're right that maybe she wouldn't so openly link herself to infinity if they were scum together

that said, no-one else has really called this out so maybe she didn't think there was a lot of obvious linkage?

Uh again there isnt really any linkage ...
You can say literally the exact same thing with me/jv, as i actually *did* try to stop a wagon there ...
I'm not sure why you're not calling that out ^

[skitter30]

Untrue, others did start to push at things about infinity and skitter was the person who prevented those things developing

When did this even happen ...
The only time i can think of is lilith once asking me about infinity and me saying i thought he was townish

Like i dont think this is a recurring trend like ur making it out to be

[skitter30]

S_S just got major scum equity btw. No way in hell that 9 people skipped a role like cop to allow it to drop to 10th, and a mechanics player should be on that.
BTW for the love of god don't counter claim. We don't need to know, and we sure as shit don't need scum to know.
I can't decide if Menalque gets scum points for fishing or if it's a reaction test, but I'm busting it right now.

It's a bs claim and possibly scum indicative

[skitter30]

Subject: Open 779: Pick Your Power X/Y Game Over!

hardclaim cop

Yeah, I’m as surprised to have got it as you all are, what can I say, luck of the Irish

He was scum in this game ^

(This is a public alt ^)

[skitter30]

i'm aware. are you trying to say because he claimed cop on page 1 in another game as scum he could be scum here because that seems not particularly solid reasoning

No, i'm noting that it's a bs claim, and am also finding it odd that he would repeat doing so given that dunn is in this game again

[skitter30]

Hmmmmm

[skitter30]

Mena i mean this in the nicest possible way but in this pl you're not a super high priority nk depending on who exactly comprises the scumteam

*i* might not even be a high priority nk depending on who comprises tje scumteam

[skitter30]

I dont really care about your infinity scumread, and i think you're attributing more of a linkage there than actually exists

[skitter30]

I havent played with like half the pl and most of the older players dont know me

[skitter30]

Just to summarize where i'm at:

Town: uncrowned,
Town-ish: ss, peta, penguin, infinity
Idk: jv, pine, hoopla, dunn, tgp
Scum-ish: dgb, dave
Scum: lilith

Pretty similar to this but i'm gonna bump lilith up to the 'idk' tier
And maybe hoopla down to scum-ish

@mena

[skitter30]

it's mostly the incongruence of skitter defending a slot I think is VERY scummy whenever anyone has raised that when I would expect her to be calling the things out that I'm seeing and not defusing pressure there

Do you think this is just a feature of her playstyle or something she actively does as scum? This is the same kind of thing I brought up about her when JV was under suspicion.

Also hi!

Again this isnt a thing i actually do as scum outside of like newbie games

[skitter30]

He came back for a few months like a year ago
Cool dude, twas a fun game!

[skitter30]

Mena do u actually townread me now or is it a day1 townread, out of curiosity

[skitter30]

Idk they feel a bit below null to me now

[skitter30]

Oh sorry ss should be higher too, he's townier now then he was then. Now quite as townie as uncrowned

Dave is making kinda oppurtunistic votes, and is kinda like watching this game from a sort of meta/birds-eye view perspective but isnt trying to actively solve himself really imo
Dunn's reasoning for pushing me was meh

[skitter30]

*not quite as townie as uncrowned

[skitter30]

[tinfoilhat]Mena and skitter are scum together and we’re all going to die[/tinfoilhat]

One day!

Night mena!

[skitter30]

Skit where are you at on preferring a DGB vs. Lilith lynch atm?

Dgb > lilith

We can do dave tho too

VOTE: dave

[skitter30]

Hmmmmm indeed

[skitter30]

Y u on infinity?

[skitter30]

solve himself

I don't need to solve myself, I know I'm town. And there isn't really any point in trying to help other solve myself because literally nobody but scum ever sees me that way.

Idk what you're trying to say in the second sentence, can you rephrase that please?
And for the first sentence .... that clearly was not the meaning of my post ...

[skitter30]

I still dont know what you're getting at, sorry

[skitter30]

R u trying to say that only scum townreads you?

You're reading the phrase 'solve himself' rather differently than how i meant for it to be read, which is kinda adding to my confusion

Either way that's probably town so back yo dgb we go
VOTE: dgb

[skitter30]

I'm also not sure that was a *good* example of antecedant ...

[skitter30]

He felt kinda smug, like he knows how to read himself better than i do and only town scumreads him for such silly things so he doesnt need to pursue it/protest it further

Idk how to explain it further but in the moment it didnt feel like a scum reaction from him

Like scum probably doesnt decide to make themselves even more unpopular just there by making a point about like having superior knowledge about grammar while being broadly uncooperative

And like he just didnt care abt being cooperative, which i think is a +town reaction

Idk how well i explained that, it makes sense in my head ^

[skitter30]

Idk where to vote really rn

[skitter30]

Hoopla remind me why you're townreading me?

[skitter30]

And your perception of me is just from this game, yes?

[skitter30]

I have a really nice scumtell that i'm trying to see if i can trip out of you/dgb/peta/infinity but so far no results

[skitter30]

I feel like i talked about it already?
What so u want to know ?

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

This is true
I'm feeling more and more that i may have been pushing a wagon on town!lilith, as there was little resistance, and it collapsed as soon as i moved off and wasnt calling for her head anymore
Like there's for sure scum in the people randomly moving off as i did

A lot of people just hopped off of Lilith. From l-1 to l-5

this is alarming to me.

when a wagon collapses for no apparent reason, it's usually because it was artificially inflated (ie; scum driven), which implies lilith is town. skitter was the only person who put in real effort for her lilith vote. everyone else seemed to be riding on her coattails.

who's scum?

i think DGB/davesaz was the tipping point and most suspect. i probably prefer davesaz over DGB, if only because DGB is doubled up with pine.

VOTE: davesaz

Huh actually looking at the votes the people who moved off are people i'm largely townreading ...
Except for like hoopla

The thing about that is that you said in when you unvoted that Lilith was still a target for you.

Since you're being TR by many in the game, with you saying that, I think the chances scum jump off the wagon that quick are less likely, considering a Lilith lynch still looks like it's still potentially on the cards.

I worded this in a dumb way but it's late and I don't know how to make it better LOL

So the people still on wagon are the way to go then! Looks like my dbg vote was a good one lol

[skitter30]

even if i were scum you wouldn't get it out of me

Eh you never know ...

[skitter30]

I feel like i talked about it already?
What so u want to know ?

have you observed this kind of thing happening before with other wagons you've led?

Sometimes i realize there's like no resistance to a wagon I'm pushing and i get a little spooked, yeah

[skitter30]

skitter talk to me about lilith? Is the wagon thing the only reason you think she's town?

Yeah i dont particularly townread her on play, but the way the wagon built doeant feel right

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

This feels wrong

[skitter30]

If you want to start the game doing the scum's work by removing one of the players they fear the most and are most likely to NK, then I am going to help you.

Why Do u think this is an accurate assessment *in this playerlist*

[skitter30]

Rn i want an answer to 1318

[skitter30]

I'm feeling kinda conflicted atm but like the ate self-vote probably doesnt come from scum?
And the gamestate feels icky? Like the fact that just about everyone is ambivalent between dunn and dgb doesnt feel quite right
Why isnt mena campaigning for infinity more?

These are all good questions ...

But at the same i feel like dgb's pov is a bit off

[skitter30]

That's fair i guess, but it still doesn't feel right

[skitter30]

It would point to a super passive scumteam, i guess

[skitter30]

If you want to start the game doing the scum's work by removing one of the players they fear the most and are most likely to NK, then I am going to help you.

Why Do u think this is an accurate assessment *in this playerlist*

@dgb

[skitter30]

No, i'm insinuating that to the best of my knowledge quite a lot of this pl wouldnt *know* that town!you is somebody to be that scared of, and there's at least 3 players here who get n1'd on a regular basis

and so what i'm getting at is why you're so convinced that *in this game* it's a certainty that if you dont ger voted out you'd be resolved viabbeing an early nk, because *off of your play alone day1* that is not at all a certainty, and *in this pl* i'm not sure you get fearkilled to the extent you're insinuating

[skitter30]

No, i'm insinuating that to the best of my knowledge quite a lot of this pl wouldnt *know* that town!you is somebody to be that scared of, and there's at least 3 players here who get n1'd on a regular basis

and so what i'm getting at is why you're so convinced that *in this game* it's a certainty that if you dont get voted out you'd be resolved via being an early nk, because *off of your play alone day1* that is not at all a certainty, and *in this pl* i'm not sure you get fearkilled to the extent you're insinuating

Bleh typos

[skitter30]

Idk is she usually this out of tune of the gamestate ^

Like heck i'm in thag sort of position like a lot but i know when i'm in a game where by virtue of the pl i'm *not*

[skitter30]

[skitter30]

i'm not really happy about how this played out :/
super dgb, that you didn't have a more enjoyable game

[skitter30]

that was an awful wagon

VOTE: mena

i coudl do goldenparadox too

[skitter30]

so i guess doc, jk, or rb
i wouln't hate the jk or rb outing tbh

[skitter30]

ehh maybe not

[skitter30]

there is confirmed no scum 1-shot vig, so we should absolutely avoid shooting at the top of the draft.

wut

[skitter30]

Pretty sure scum!lilith chooses 1-shot vig and uses it night 1.

1s vigi is paired with 1s pgo ... which dgb flipped

[skitter30]

Pretty sure scum!lilith chooses 1-shot vig and uses it night 1.

1s vigi is paired with 1s pgo ... which dgb flipped

Lilith was numero uno in the draft order is what I thought was the point.

i think i'm missing something, sorry

[skitter30]

If you're going with the logic that scum would choose 1-shot vigi. That would mean lilith, Dunnstral, skitter, dave, S_S, Uncrowned, Infnity, peta are all Town.

ah
ty

[skitter30]

i don't think we can make an assumption that scum chooses that slot tho

[skitter30]

also just gonna say we should focus on wagon today cuz i'd bet that that wagon is just teeming with scum

[skitter30]

eh by teeming i meant more than one and we already had an onwagon flip via dgb, so like 2/7 is p decent

[skitter30]

still think that peta is town imo

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter30

oh *do* go on

[skitter30]

soooooooooooooooo

VOTE: mena

good vote +1

[skitter30]

jv is probably town too. i don't remember if i said that already

[skitter30]

They were called out for choosing a scummy number in the draft, in which they said it was for the lulz. Which by itself is perfectly fine but that was a plain lie, which I called out and then they changed their answer to wanting a unique number because they assumed more would be paired together. They lied via omission which is a deception tactic and I do not like that one bit. If you read through their original post where they originally said it was for the lulz they blatantly said it was just for that and no other reason which is just deceitful. Their posts surrounding me calling them out lost all tone that they had beforehand and just after when nobody was even caring about my read they started jumping back to their old self, even discrediting me about it.

i feel like this post (/ thought process behind it) probably doesn't come from scum

[skitter30]

oh dear. i hope she's ok

[skitter30]

Not shitting you I’m going to hospital now because my own thing...

V/LA for 48 hours just in case

[skitter30]

I’ll do a consolidation vote on Mena since Dave’s tone is good and They’re the only one that could be scum outside of peta imo, and my push on peta is going nowhere for now but I definitely still SR the hell out of that slot

VOTE: Menalque

Why is tgp town?

[skitter30]

Sorry, you're right, idk why i missed/did that
What about the vote placement makes tgp town?

[skitter30]

okay, I don't think scum is exactly (skitt, lilith, infinity) but I do think there's at least one scum in there and I think quite conceivably two

There's scum on the wagon, and i think a fairly large portion of it is town

You're vote was icky, as was you loldropping infinity to vote dgb

[skitter30]

*a fairly large portion of it is town so i wanna concentrate on people on wagon who i'm not townreading

[skitter30]

calling lil (one of her top SRs yesterday) out as doing good posting for her completely unsubstantiated vote on me

Also i wasnt saying lilith was doing good posting (she's not), but she was first person to vote you after me, and i wanted more votes there

[skitter30]

You're vote was icky, as was you loldropping infinity to vote dgb

why

Because it looked like you dropped something you actually believed in to vote someone who was posting badly (but not necessarily scummily) at a time when the wagon on dgb was not set yet, and your vote was the tipping point so to speak for that wagon, and made it much more likely to go through

I really dont like the drop off of infinity

[skitter30]

DGB was comfortably going through anyway in that scenario, or alternatively infinity was going through, in either case there was no need for scum!me to hop onto the DGB wagon to ensure it went through or anything

She wasnt yet, i'm p sure your vote is what made it inevitable

[skitter30]

so you still think lilith is scummy or not?

Idk yet, she hasnt been posting
What with people in the us probably being distracted last night i'll givr her like a day, and if posting doesnt improve to town!lilith willl go back there

[skitter30]

I think, if anything, the self-vote makes it slightly less likely there are two on but really at this point I wouldn't care to call it either way. I would, as a rule, lean towards it being 1 or 2 on at this point without more info tho

Ummmmm why does self-vote imply there's not two on?

[skitter30]

but this makes very little sense for scum!me to do unless you think I was lolbussing infinity from the moment I entered and dropped off to save him

Scum!you gets the easy dgb wagon by switching off, while town!you would have had to put in work to make infinity happen, which scum!you has little reason to do if you can just vote dgb