Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Major Minor]

VOTE: T3

[Major Minor]

@Mod: Is it possible to change the color of the text in the setup post? The green especially is impossible to read on a light background.

Done
~ Kori

[Major Minor]

RVS Breaker: My vote was serious. Discuss.

No it wasn't. At least not beyond the trivial "all votes are to some extent serious" sense of the phrase. If I'm wrong and you have a real reason you're welcome to share it instead of inviting us to play 20 Questions.

They read their Role PM but didn't confirm it until later.

I'm having following, both how you came to this conclusion (I saw it was later verified though), and why that would make them more likely to be scum/cult/whatever?

[Major Minor]

Having trouble following*

[Major Minor]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

[Major Minor]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

Am lowkey sus of this slot - posts in the thread to refute criticism but doesn't add anything about the wider game or ask any new questions.

Is it low-key if you say it out loud?

[Major Minor]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

who are you and which one?

RVS Breaker: My vote was serious. Discuss.

No it wasn't. At least not beyond the trivial "all votes are to some extent serious" sense of the phrase. If I'm wrong and you have a real reason you're welcome to share it instead of inviting us to play 20 Questions.

They read their Role PM but didn't confirm it until later.

I'm having trouble following, both how you came to this conclusion (I saw it was later verified though), and why that would make them more likely to be scum/cult/whatever?

[Major Minor]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

Am lowkey sus of this slot - posts in the thread to refute criticism but doesn't add anything about the wider game or ask any new questions.

this is a dogshit post

he's putting pressure on a slot that didn't answer his question and that is objectively a good thing

Pipe down - yes, there's nothing wrong with following up on a question (in fact, it's actually towny), but when that is literally all the slot had done at that point it feels like hiding in plain sight

The game had been open like 12 hours, calm down.

I had also thrown down a RVS vote.

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

[Major Minor]

It's explained in thread, but to surmise.

Cult is an uncommon and totally not bastard mechanic, while the rest are fairly common and standard roles on MS. My first thought was confirming mechanics before confirming the role

I'm not sure this really clarified what I was misunderstanding, but someone else clarified later that the mod was notifying who had opened PMs and who hasn't, yes?

[Major Minor]

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

WMFM

(This tell didn't actually work in my last game but I still think it has merit)

I don't know what this means.

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

None spring to mind - perhaps you could enlighten me?

Sure.

Maruchan has still only posted once to ego the thread.
osuka had only random voted/shitposted, then didn't post at all between my two posts addressing Flea.
T3 had arguably only done one thing thus far, which is vote Flea for pressure to create discussion.

I posted to ask for clarification from Flea, then when Flea responded and did not answer my question, I pushed again and asked again for an answer. I didn't "refute" any criticism like you said? The criticism of "not adding anything" or "asking any new questions" could be applied to all of the people listed above.

Furthermore, I'll add that what I was doing was absolutely not adding anything about the wider gamestate, because I'm focusing on one specific thing and making sure I follow it to its conclusion rather than firing scattershot into the thread with a million different ideas/reads. That isn't a scumtell, nor is it a reason to be suspicious of a slot.

[Major Minor]

Maruchan has still only posted once to ego the thread.

we should policy her

Ah I see. I'm unfamiliar with co-mods posting in the game unless they are called in to back up.

I'm not sure on what you're asking in that case.
The player list had confirmation status on who had confirmed, Lemons had opened the message but not confirmed the role according to said list. My angle at the time was cult may be a mechanic people are unfamiliar with and that was the reason for delay in role confirmation while cult mechanics were clarified.

It's unlikely Maruchan will be posting again, except to troll us.
Osuka I'm unfamiliar with.
T3 is currently within their normal range.

Perhaps ask questions and things to generate discussion instead of just idly knocking the slots.
Have you manage to form any notable reads from my shenangians?

I'm not sure what someone's "normal range" is. I was asked to point to other people who had produced similarly low levels of content as me at the time I was criticized for not contributing other content. I was not asking you to give me a meta read on anybody. When I asked questions, I was blasted for asking questions and then asking for follow up when my questions were ignored. When I was asked to point to other slots that were inactive, I get told I should be asking questions instead. Seems I'm trapped in a "damned if you do" situation, aren't I?

Feels rather disingenuous on your part, tbh.

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

WMFM

(This tell didn't actually work in my last game but I still think it has merit)

I don't know what this means.

Why Me = Fry Me

Responding to accusations by asking "why me and not [these other people]?" is +scum

Agree to disagree. Sometimes, a person can, in fact, be pointing out logical inconsistencies in someone's thought patterns.
I don't know if this inconsistency is alignment-indicative. I think both town and scum are capable of having glitches in the matrix, so to speak.

That being said, I'm suspicious of both Marky Mark & Flea at this point. They're both seemingly trying to take these big leadership positions, which seems like a good place to hide D1 to ensure I do

not

believe they are likely scum together. Especially in this setup, I could see the importance of directing any Day 1 wagons away from your cult leader to ensure they get to recruit somebody Night 1. And in a game this small, there's not much room to maneuver unless one cult is willing to step forward and be loud enough to steer things.

If Flea is town, I could see Lemons being cult... but if Flea is cult, I don't believe Lemons is likely to be a buddy, as that is a wild Day 1 soft-bus to start the game with. Some of their play I see as downplaying Flea's theory aggressively.
Other than those two, I have a slight town read on Raya for their earlier posting, esp. the reaction to Flea's push on Lemon.
Enchant pings me as possible scum due to the cheeky opening post and the early posts directing town PRs and stuff? It comes across as LAMIST.
T3 reads town/genuine to me.


Umlaut and osuka haven't left much of an impression on me thus far.

[Major Minor]

Part and parcel of mafia, if you're on the watch list you're damned either way.
I was looking at your posts out of context at the time and that's what I got.

You also missed the bit where I asked if you got any reads from it.

And you... literally didn't read the end of the very post you quoted where I gave reads?

VOTE: Flea

Do better.

[Major Minor]

same question to you, major -- what makes flea's accusation/rvs breaker so wild?

It just seems like doing that to a buddy is a high risk low reward play given this setup, and Flea seems competent/smart enough not to make it.

After this talk i just realised.

Maybe it's not bad idea to reveal Unrecruitable townies right now, so they couldn't get CCed later by Cult when they have numbers (and they will have with high chance)?

While it denies power they have, they will not be counterclaimed (unless by cult PR/Cult Leader who is insane enough). It actually nets us with 2/6 chances to hit cult and 1/6 to find Cult Leader (from VT perspective).

What you think?

Hmm. My initial gut instinct is "no, don't do this" but I think that's just a lot of "don't open claim Day 1" best practice built into my head. In this setup, I'm not sure 1/3 chance to hit cult is really THAT much better than the 2/9 chance we have right now?

[Major Minor]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

VOTE: Major Minor

Let's murder us a cultist, folks.

Hmmm.

Why is that more likely to come from scum than town, exactly?

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

it also indicates to me that "other people had done less than me" was a defensive, retroactive assumption that he then had to go back and look for reasons to believe, rather than something he had already observed and decided to point out after the fact. for someone who literally didn't even have a single vote on him, he had a pretty extreme reaction to getting pushed.

i'm comfortable with this.

VOTE: Major Minor

Same question to you.

When I made that accusation, I was actually *specifically* recalling that Maruchan post as just a prod-dodge type thing. I went back to look for it, then saw there were others that could fit the same description I gave.

I'm not sure I follow the pattern here. I think a vote on me for accidentally including a co-mod in my post is one that looks "strong enough" on paper to let scum sit on a miselimination wagon, but if you apply actual scrutiny to it, doesn't hold up to pressure.

I was under attack for not doing much, which I found to be interesting, since there were people who had done less than me. Not knowing anyone in the game, am I supposed to be able to pitch-perfect recall every post someone made and when they made it and how that timing coincides with when I had posted (vs when I had just skimmed to check in but not posted)? Of course not, that's an asinine assumption. Of course, I am going to go back and reread -- it was only six pages, after all. I don't think the behavior the two of you are describing is *actually* scum-indicative in any way, even in the least charitable reading.

[Major Minor]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

VOTE: Major Minor

Let's murder us a cultist, folks.

Hmmm.

Why is that more likely to come from scum than town, exactly?

Why is self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing more likely to come from scum than town? Is that your question?

Because scum just want anyone yeeted but them, and town have higher priorities.

Don't town also have an imperative to deflate any shitty wagons on them to avoid town wasting an elimination?

But no, my question is, why would me accidentally including Maruchan be more indicative of scum than town.

Incidentally, my day one accuracy in catching scum has been absolutely stellar as of late so I think I'm going to finally develop that infamous MafiaScum ego and declare unilaterally that everyone with a green role PM should sheep me if they like winning.

Oh darling, I have such bad news for you.

same question to you, major -- what makes flea's accusation/rvs breaker so wild?

It just seems like doing that to a buddy is a high risk low reward play given this setup, and Flea seems competent/smart enough not to make it.

how is pushing a delayed role PM confirmation on page 1 high risk? i don't see how that play is any more likely to be a soft-bus than it is to be an attempt at distancing, and i don't think either of those possibilities would seem as likely (even from a neutral perspective) as flea just genuinely trying to get us out of RVS.

MM do we know you at all btw? You seem to have made a few assumptions about us and we're curious if we've played previously or if you just read our meta.

No intrest in alt hunting btw, if you've used alts with us.

No, I don't have any experience with anybody in this game.

[Major Minor]

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

This really felt like you were trying to shade me here and accuse me of being disingenuous. Yet, when I replied to you in near real time, there was a significant pause before then you came up with 2 slots that I would argue had been notably more active than you at that point in the game and the backup mod.

If I genuinely felt like another player was singling me out, I would call them out based on their behaviours, but here it feels like you had to retrospectively find a justification for your accusation against me when I called you out on it.

...am I now being pushed because I had to step away from my computer for more than 10 minutes? Like, legitimately? Because I didn't respond to you 5 minutes after you responded to me?

[Major Minor]

Why am I on Raya still?

VOTE: Major minor

Pretty gross!

[Major Minor]

It seems like Major minor basically just chose the most convenient wagon to vote for.

So you just chose to not read my posts expressing my discomfort towards Flea?

[Major Minor]

For what it's worth, I won't be claiming, even if I'm put to E-1. So if the reasons stated so far are actually compelling to you, put your vote on me. Preferably with an explanation as to why those reasons were so compelling so that the actual townies can catch you for joining a bad wagon later.

[Major Minor]

I don't want a claim from you, haven't I made that clear? I don't want E-1 claims.

I want you do some things that tell me you're town.

Without associatives, whats your reads? why?

I hunt on associatives. I like to group people into pools and work backwards from there. Especially early on in the game.

I'm also having trouble divorcing actual reads on people from retaliatory reads where I think the people voting for me are scummy. That being said, I believe that independent of their voting for me, Lemons stands a reasonable chance to flip scum here.

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

This really felt like you were trying to shade me here and accuse me of being disingenuous. Yet, when I replied to you in near real time, there was a significant pause before then you came up with 2 slots that I would argue had been notably more active than you at that point in the game and the backup mod.

If I genuinely felt like another player was singling me out, I would call them out based on their behaviours, but here it feels like you had to retrospectively find a justification for your accusation against me when I called you out on it.

...am I now being pushed because I had to step away from my computer for more than 10 minutes? Like, legitimately? Because I didn't respond to you 5 minutes after you responded to me?

You'd made a couple of posts in quick succession so were clearly online. I then replied within 4 minutes but it took you 40 minutes to respond when I pushed you for actual examples. Of course, it could have just been unfortunate timing, I can't rule that out, but I hope you can see why it is sus.

I guess the deeper question is this:

Did you have specific slots in mind at the time when you shaded me for singling you out?

If you didn't have specific slots in mind at the time (ie was more of a rough feeling) then why phrase your post to shade me over it before checking your facts?

If you did have those specific slots in mind then I would question your judgement as the non-mod examples you gave were more active than you at that point in time.

But see, this wasn't a question of raw activity. In my mind, the accusation was less about activity and more about the implication that I wasn't "adding anything to the wider game" or "asking new questions". I still contend that I had done just as much as T3/osuka at that point, because I had tunneled in on one train of thought and was pursuing it. My reaction was "Wait, why is adding new questions a metric for engagement? And if that's the case, why am I getting shouted out for it? There are other low impact players out there that I can't name a single actual thing they've done." I had the Maruchan post in mind, though not necessarily Maruchan's name attached to it. Then upon going back to examine the playerlist, I saw all these names where I was like, I can't name a single thing this person has done of value or any questions they've added to the game state. Which lead to my summary post.

[Major Minor]

Mmmm. I know this is probably going to sign my death warrant, but whatever.

VOTE: Enchant

I believe this slot is independently scummy.

The opening "I claim Mafia Goon" is just cheeky enough that I could see cult doing it. This is purely conjecture, yes, but I actually think opening with that kind of joke is more likely to come from scum than town. Disagree? Okay, skip this point.

So much of what Enchant does early is split into two buckets: obviously farcical joking, or trying to direct town actions.

Almost the ENTIRETY of Enchant's posting so far is sort of playing in this orbit

around

the game rather than engaging with the game itself. What I mean is... it's all jokes, or it's talking

theory

about what could

hypothetically

be the best play in any given scenario. Then we keep going with it... what is the ideal claim? Is it bad to reveal roles? Should we massclaim? All this stuff looks neat but... Enchant doesn't have to engage with the game at all when doing this.

Look at all of Enchant's posts thus far. None of them give reads or attempt to pressure anyone or press suspicious actions. But there sure are a lot of them! Because waxing poetic about theory and hypotheticals is a very neat way for scum to generate content without opening themselves up to much risk.

[Major Minor]

I don't mind your rants, osuka, I find them hilarious tbh

[Major Minor]

@osuka: You're doing a lot of like proxy-defending of me but haven't said what your actual read on me is.

So what do you read me as rn

[Major Minor]

Mmmm. I know this is probably going to sign my death warrant, but whatever.

VOTE: Enchant

I believe this slot is independently scummy.

The opening "I claim Mafia Goon" is just cheeky enough that I could see cult doing it. This is purely conjecture, yes, but I actually think opening with that kind of joke is more likely to come from scum than town. Disagree? Okay, skip this point.

So much of what Enchant does early is split into two buckets: obviously farcical joking, or trying to direct town actions.

Almost the ENTIRETY of Enchant's posting so far is sort of playing in this orbit

around

the game rather than engaging with the game itself. What I mean is... it's all jokes, or it's talking

theory

about what could

hypothetically

be the best play in any given scenario. Then we keep going with it... what is the ideal claim? Is it bad to reveal roles? Should we massclaim? All this stuff looks neat but... Enchant doesn't have to engage with the game at all when doing this.

Look at all of Enchant's posts thus far. None of them give reads or attempt to pressure anyone or press suspicious actions. But there sure are a lot of them! Because waxing poetic about theory and hypotheticals is a very neat way for scum to generate content without opening themselves up to much risk.

Why do you think this would sign your death warrant?

Enchant isn't a bad vote tbh

Because I think if I were town vs. me right now I could easily paint what I'm doing here as flailing or looking for my best possible out

[Major Minor]

From your description of your thought process above, you more had a "fuzzy" awareness that there were other slots that had contributed less, rather than specific slots in mind (please correct me if you think I'm misrepping here). That being the case, it feels scummy that you tried to shade me over singling you out, without actually confirming your suspicions first to see if I actually was.

You're right. But I think the difference between "calling you out, only" vs "singling you out" is incredibly minor and actually serves my larger point?

[Major Minor]

I've been away for the last 24 hours. I'll be more present in the next 24.

[Major Minor]

My weekend obligations took up more time than I thought, so my apologies for that.

6 days to go,

Osuka or Major minor are the wagons. Pick one, and lets have it.

Both slots are low-content and evasive (to the point of offensively so in Osukas case). I'll be keeping an eye whoever isn't eliminated of the two.

Enchant, I am disappointed in you. You knw you're getting culted tonight, right?

This is so gross to me. I put together a case on Enchant, and you completely ignored it and hand-waved it away and said "Well Enchant makes sense so they get a day pass". Then you turn around and call me "low content" and "evasive", and beautifully set yourself up to go after me later in the game if I don't get eliminated today.

The game as a whole has been fairly inactive. There were only ~20 posts between my last activity and my promise for more content, and only ~20 more posts since then.

In terms of activity, I've been more active than half of the game, objectively (Raya, osuka, and Umlaut). T3 is matching me in activity, and in the same timeframe as you mentioned above, has less posts than me.

Why are you being disingenuous about my slot? You

choosing

not to engage with my points about Enchant and literally never commenting or responding to the case does not mean I'm doing nothing. Things don't cease to exist just because you, Flea, don't acknowledge them.

I obviously would prefer not to get wagoned here, because I know I am town. I am also a controversial figure, so I may as well be recruit-proof at this point, because cult won't want to touch me with a ten foot pole.

I don't know what to make of Enchant claiming a town power role. It's vague, so like... it's unconfirmable. It's un-CCable. I think the claim was premature. I'm not sure what the proper play is here. Do we force a full claim now to lock it in and draw out a CC if he's lying? If Enchant is the cult leader, fakeclaiming PR D1 is pretty much the best way to guarantee survival long enough to get a recruit action off.

On the other hand, osuka is the only one who defended me against Marky's inquisition. Am I getting pocketed, then? Was osuka white knighting me to look like a savior? I do tend to want to protect those who protect me. So that wagon is not ideal for me either.

Which leaves me wondering what to actually

do

here. If I had a magic gun right now and could kill anyone in the game, it would probably be Flea for disingenuous framing of my play and attempting to control the discourse, or it'd be Raya, who seems to be playing around the periphery and nudging wagons forward almost invisibly. I don't know how realistic it is that I get my preferences though, because the groupthink right now is trending towards me being untrustworthy at best.

[Major Minor]

6 days to go,

Osuka or Major minor are the wagons. Pick one, and lets have it.

Both slots are low-content and evasive (to the point of offensively so in Osukas case). I'll be keeping an eye whoever isn't eliminated of the two.

Enchant, I am disappointed in you. You knw you're getting culted tonight, right?

try having a crack at showing everyone where i was evasive. i'll be waiting

Yeah honestly, same for me. Show me one place where I was evasive. Because I wasn't.

[Major Minor]

Osaka less evasive, my bad, still disgustingly overly-aggressive and hostile.

You are a hostile presence in the game, IMO. You've talked down to me for a large portion of your posts here and act as if you are better than everyone else. I can't tell if it's because you're scum with a chip on your shoulder, or you are just an angry person. That being said, it feels fairly hypocritical to want Osaka dead because of playstyle/personality given how you've acted. It's mafia, so I get it, it doesn't really bother me that much. But reading someone as scum for it? Come on now.

Major Minor you case was poop, frankly. and you have answered

around

at least 1 question today and I've already shown you that.

Handwaving an entire case and saying it was... poop? Bold, brave content.
I'm not sure what your second point means. The emphasis on "around" is strange, but also, you say I've answered "at least" one question today... so I've answered more than one? Or what? And how does this relate to my case, which you claimed was poop?

Also protip, calling me disengenuous gets you scumpoints because frankly I absofuckinglutely hate when people declare "bad faith!!" as an excuse to ignore me. You give me hella bad vibes.

You don't need to be condescending to people. "Protip", I'm not ignoring you. I've engaged with you countless times, but yes, eventually, if someone shows bad faith enough times, it becomes grounds for suspicion or pressure.

You say you'd shoot me to remove me from the game, do that mean you're SRing me or just dislike me? I'd love to know which one it is.

Answered above. I also, in the post where I said I'd shoot you, actually explained the reasons I was voting for you, so I am glad to have to repeat myself for you for like... the fifth time.

now this....

Mmmm. I know this is probably going to sign my death warrant, but whatever.

VOTE: Enchant

I believe this slot is independently scummy.

The opening "I claim Mafia Goon" is just cheeky enough that I could see cult doing it. This is purely conjecture, yes, but I actually think opening with that kind of joke is more likely to come from scum than town. Disagree? Okay, skip this point.

So much of what Enchant does early is split into two buckets: obviously farcical joking, or trying to direct town actions.

Almost the ENTIRETY of Enchant's posting so far is sort of playing in this orbit

around

the game rather than engaging with the game itself. What I mean is... it's all jokes, or it's talking

theory

about what could

hypothetically

be the best play in any given scenario. Then we keep going with it... what is the ideal claim? Is it bad to reveal roles? Should we massclaim? All this stuff looks neat but... Enchant doesn't have to engage with the game at all when doing this.

Look at all of Enchant's posts thus far. None of them give reads or attempt to pressure anyone or press suspicious actions. But there sure are a lot of them! Because waxing poetic about theory and hypotheticals is a very neat way for scum to generate content without opening themselves up to much risk.

is more than what can be said about your play so far, and if you noticed I started to follow up on this because yeah you made a point.

I may not like your slot rn, but I'm getting worse vibes from osuka.

[/quote]
You followed up on this how? By giving Enchant a "day pass" and hand waving what I said?

And if I made a point... then... why was my case "poop" like you said earlier?

[Major Minor]

UNVOTE: Enchant

[Major Minor]

@Flea: I'm sorry you're going through all of that right now. I hope it gets better for you.

I see what you're saying about the "around" thing now. I don't think I've been avoiding anything. I gave both associatives and reads today as I formed them or as I was requested to provide them. I tend to think in associatives first and try to draw inferences from interactions between players, especially with a playerlist this small with not much room to hide.

I'm not sure what a "pants" case is. But I'd argue I wasn't attacking a playstyle, I was attacking individual categories of actions as being scummy. (And, for the record, "You were attacking a playstyle" is a really weird critique? Like yes, if a playstyle is scummy, the actions comprising that playstyle gets called out.)

To your point about bad faith: if you weren't saying I was ignoring you, why did you tell me I got "scum points" for using the argument because it's an excuse to ignore you? Like, you're simultaneously using the ignoring as a reason to blanket scumread me, while also claiming I'm not actually ignoring you and you're just talking about what has happened in the past.

You're right, I was the first one on Enchant. I still stand by my points that Enchant's play was scum-coded, and furthermore, I think the open claim is actively harmful to town and very well might've lost us the game here.

---

I'm at a complete loss for what to do. Enchant has hardclaimed so that's off the table. I know that I'm not scum. I don't believe Osuka is scum, though I'm sincerely hoping I'm not being pocketed and letting Osuka into my blind spot. If I believe all of that, and not a single person has shown any interest in supporting my suspicions on Flea, then I'm left with a very narrow pool, all of which seem to be somewhat swimming in the same stagnant null waters.

On my to-do list is to go back and reread Raya, T3, Umlaut, and Lemons to see if I can glean anything from there.

[Major Minor]

I cannot CC.

[Major Minor]

Your vote for Enchant was in 230. Did you forget?

I see. I meant "in the post where I said I'd shoot you, I explained the reasons for shooting you"

[Major Minor]

@Osuka:

Who is scum here? What is your read on me, specifically regarding my back and forth over the last few pages with Flea? What's your read on Flea?

[Major Minor]

VOTE: T3

Fuck it. I don't want to crossvote Osuka and I would prefer if you guys didn't eliminate town D1.

[Major Minor]

This is transparently because I think T3 stands a decent chance of flipping scum -- at the very least, has a higher scumflip probability than myself or Osuka, and I sense that T3 would also be the most likely other person to get support for a wagon before deadline.

Also stating here that Umlaut is my top scumread after a reread. He hasn't done any scumhunting all game. The last actual read they gave was that the solve was me/T3 as the cult team... then proceeded to vote Enchant, pushing them to a claim. Since the unvote on Enchant they've done nothing other than imply they'll flip back to me. They've questioned the mod, given self-meta, and answered questions directed at them -- but have done very little to advance reads or poke/prod/present cases. Scum-indicative behavior, esp. since I know most of the theater today has revolved around bad pushes on me (town) and Enchant (un-CC'd PR, so likely town). Would make sense for scum to be blending in.

But... T3 feels like they would have more support than Umlaut at this point. So that's where my vote is, because we're close to deadline.

[Major Minor]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

[Major Minor]

ESPECIALLY if Flea is town.

Flea, if you're town, you're pushing on town here. Think about that for a moment and how that might explain some of the gamestate. With you doing the heavy lifting for scum to push people onto a miselimination onto me, they can sorta just... blend in. What other active things have been happening?

Thank you for your confession.
The gamestate is still fairly decent, the HEAVY resistance to your elimination despite few people expressing an opinion on you tells me there's either scum defending you, or you are scum. Osuka has been defending you, and I'm happy enough in my read on you that you are todays elimination, and the only one in my mind.

I will say this, you have earned a lot of respect from me for your play if you're scum. You've done a good job at adjusting the narratives around you, and I'm pretty sure you're wishing there was a factional kill.
Converting me would be obvious, besides there's the PR to take care of.

Question for me is your buddy, Osuka, T3 or Umlaut.

This isn't a long game, just 16 pages. I'd encourage people to reread and see the dominant narrative. It has solely centered around me from the start of this game, pretty much -- one of the first real reads expressed after Flea pushed us out of RVS was that people were sus of me for various reasons, and a majority of the dialogue has continued to be about that -- which means scum really don't want to shake up the narrative too much, because from their perspective, they had a townie in the spotlight (me) while I pushed for a wagon on a town PR (Enchant). The goal should be to find who was specifically trying not to rock the boat and seemed content to let the status quo stay as it is (Umlaut, ???).

Oof the ego is real. You pushed for a wagon on Enchant, who was promptly run up to E-1 with much much less resistance.

I think you picked up the same hints from Enchant as I did, and your push on them tells me you're scum motivated.

Boy, I cannot wait until you realize you were just 100% completely off base here.

[Major Minor]

Like... what HEAVY resistance to my elimination? ONE person, Osuka, sorta defending me? Everyone else has indicated a willingness to eliminate me or has voted for me at some point???
Are you reading the same game?

[Major Minor]

VOTE: T3

Fuck it. I don't want to crossvote Osuka and I would prefer if you guys didn't eliminate town D1.

what do you mean crossvote

If you and I are the major wagons we have to vote each other to stay alive.

VOTE: T3

Fuck it. I don't want to crossvote Osuka and I would prefer if you guys didn't eliminate town D1.

... so you're gonna cross-vote T3? (who incidentally has not responded to my question about why he's voting you, despite me asking it within ~1 minute of his previous post)

I did go on to explain exactly why I'm voting T3 like, in the very next post, yes.
I specifically didn't want to "cross vote" Osuka (bc if we're the two leading wagons I expect us to have to vote each other eventually) so I put my vote on T3 instead.

major thinks flea is scum but won't vote them.

Two people think I'm scum but won't vote me, both are slots that are unfamiliar with me and it shows xD

Osuka, why react to my calling out of your weird defences of Major Minor but not theirs? Care to actually contribute to the game?

Interesting that you all keep thinking I'm calling Flea definitive scum. My position from the start has been I could see one of the cult taking charge to try to lead town, and that Flea would fit that bill.

When I've tested the waters around a Flea vote, people haven't seemed to have the appetite for it.

Interesting that Raya has like... completely ignored me today. I can't think of a single interaction we've had.

[Major Minor]

I'm happy locking down on Major Minor and Osuka team here. So you'll know if I'm culted.

You play with the arrogance of someone who is much better at this game.

(Or you're scum.)

[Major Minor]

What else, other than my loudness, do you find SAI?

I don't know what SAI means.

[Major Minor]

Comparatively speaking, you've had a counter wagon that was almost successful and it seems to be despite a few aired concerns, those last few votes or even intent to vote is elusive.

Correct. I had one wagon other than mine flare up on a slot that was playing scummy and only didn't get eliminated because of a power role claim.
Then it just settled onto me. If I was cult, you'd expect my partner to be trying to get another wagon going

somewhere

, wouldn't you? And yet I seem to be the only person throwing out alternate wagons trying to get something to stick.

Unless you think Osuka and I are scum together. That's the *only* scenario where the above behavior makes sense.

You'd also think that if I were cult here, and Osuka is town, I'd take the easy route of just going in on Osuka since he's the next most likely wagon target. But... I don't want that, because I don't think Osuka is scum, and if Osuka is town and gets miseliminated, there's almost nothing to stop you from driving a train directly into me tomorrow anyway because I have zero confidence you would ever stop to reevaluate how wrong you were.

[Major Minor]

Major, I think you should consider switching to Umlaut because I agree with you on that read and am unconvinced on T3. There are 3 days so I think we have time to pressure there.

Done.

VOTE: Umlaut

[Major Minor]

Loving the continued attempts on my ego.
What is you read on Osuka, exactly?

They're not attempts, they're correct reads on your ego.

I read potential scum AND town motivation behind Osuka's full throated defense of me earlier in the day -- and his recent "What I didn't defend MajMin, where'd I do that" feels scummy. I read that situation as a potential one where he saw an opportunity to white knight me at the start of the day for +town points later, but didn't realize I'd be a sinking ship, and is now trying to distance himself before he gets dragged down with me. That would indicate scum motivation.

[Major Minor]

Sorry, but it's dangerous to put anyone at E-1.

Cult can hammer with funny excuse. They can just throw self around, and because i revealed, their convert always will success (either it will be me or roleblock me and convert someone else). Of course you will know who is cult (or triggerhappy town) after that, but i don't think lynching simple cult member is Worthing potential of instahammered cop/tracker.

So i want avoid it. Also don't put people on E-1, if you really want claim from them, simple say so.

TL'DR: Don't put at E-1 unless we certainly decide this person dying.

But... we didn't put them at E-1.

And even then, cult coming in and superhammering just gives us a claimed cult?

[Major Minor]

Loving the continued attempts on my ego.
What is you read on Osuka, exactly?

They're not attempts, they're correct reads on your ego.

I read potential scum AND town motivation behind Osuka's full throated defense of me earlier in the day -- and his recent "What I didn't defend MajMin, where'd I do that" feels scummy. I read that situation as a potential one where he saw an opportunity to white knight me at the start of the day for +town points later, but didn't realize I'd be a sinking ship, and is now trying to distance himself before he gets dragged down with me. That would indicate scum motivation.

I bet you're a blast at social events.

So you've justified both town and scum points for Osuka, but what is your exact read on them currently?

---

For that matter, what are peoples thoughts on Osuka rn?

I would vote for them over myself but it is certainly not my preferred wagon for the day.

[Major Minor]

Your Osuka reasoning only makes sense if you're evil with an Osuka partner?

No it doesn't?

Explain?

[Major Minor]

No -- I mean that they wanted to defend me so long as it could earn them towncred after my flip. Now that it looks like they might get wagoned instead of me, they're distancing

[Major Minor]

Loving the continued attempts on my ego.
What is you read on Osuka, exactly?

They're not attempts, they're correct reads on your ego.

I read potential scum AND town motivation behind Osuka's full throated defense of me earlier in the day -- and his recent "What I didn't defend MajMin, where'd I do that" feels scummy. I read that situation as a potential one where he saw an opportunity to white knight me at the start of the day for +town points later, but didn't realize I'd be a sinking ship, and is now trying to distance himself before he gets dragged down with me. That would indicate scum motivation.

I bet you're a blast at social events.

So you've justified both town and scum points for Osuka, but what is your exact read on them currently?

---

For that matter, what are peoples thoughts on Osuka rn?

I would vote for them over myself but it is certainly not my preferred wagon for the day.

oh my gods Major answer the flipping question, not around the question!
This is why you're scumlocked.

And your reads are shit.

[Major Minor]

That is literally my exact read on them. Jesus FUCKING Christ. Remind me to avoid playing with Flea ever again in the future, it's miserable.

[Major Minor]

We're getting pretty close to deadline now. My interests are still T3 and Major but I don't see much interest in T3 anymore so I'm going to move over to Major.
VOTE: major

I believe this is E-1 if I counted correctly

This is +cult equity btw. Waiting while the game stalls out and contributing nothing then using the fact the game has stalled out as a cover to vote for town.

[Major Minor]

Being frank, I suspect Osuka would be a direct (much better) alternative to Major, given that there are already 3 votes on Major and Enchant has signalled that they'd be ok with a Major elim too

The second Osuka starts getting run up he's just gonna hammer me at this point.

[Major Minor]

Major could you claim please?

Nope.

[Major Minor]

Final reads are that Dwlee is pretty much locktown for me, I *pray* Flea is scum but I don't think they are, T3 is likely a mislim target just like me, Osuka probably has higher than average scum equity, and Raya seems like a good bet for Cult Leader but that won't matter after you eliminate me, because after the recruit goes off CL doesn't really matter anymore.

[Major Minor]

no regrets if this flips town ngl

You can join Flea in the "never play with me again" pile if you're actually town here.

[Major Minor]

Major could you claim please?

Nope.

How are you still breathing 7 hours after this

There was literally no value to me claiming.

I was VT.

If I claim VT, I just get wagoned anyway and I'm dead.
If I don't claim VT and get wagoned anyway, I'm dead and it doesn't matter.
If I don't claim VT and the wagon falls apart, then at least I haven't given scum more info with which to make their night choices.

You guys should put on your thinking caps every once in a while, it works wonders.

[Major Minor]

Thats fine, I'm happy greylisting you Major, as frankly you have taken up too much of my time in this phase by being evasive with answers. Frankly you're honourary cult at this point anyway.

Imagine thinking stating truthful ways of thinking is somehow being evasive.

I'll say it again: you play with the ego of someone who is much, much better at Mafia.

The rest of you guys were chill though, see you around.