Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[Chara]

hello everyone! it's Prism's fault i'm here.

the only thoughts i currently have about the setup is that we get no flips until the first location resolves on day 2, meaning almost every important decision is made before getting any concrete feedback.
i'm not sure how much information we get from the night 1 swapping of players.

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

[Chara]

I think chemistry between people will matter more for games than like "put a consensus townread in game x" because townreads can be wrong if you get them all right you win anyway. Maybe picking scummy players for certain games kind of like gerrymanders your EV though? Maybe that's more impactful.

It seems like a nontrivial setup, brainwrinkler. Which can make me worried about dayplay health.

Coral should just solve the strat and then we should play mafia

the second sentence here makes no sense to me but it does sound very intelligent.

but i think i agree on the point that the important thing is finding scum and finding town and the rest will fall where it falls.

[Chara]

pedit: hi demona, what do you mean by 'the benefit to me locking in keep would be to force the mafia to move me or concede the keep'. do you mean you personally can hold the Keep (ie get yourself as a locktown read/find town) or something else?

hi chara!

yeah most of playerlist familiar with me so yeah don't need to find town at the keep if the town finds me

i don't know you, i think. do you have a habit of obvtowning as town?

*nostalgic, troubled sigh* i used to...

[Chara]

i agree with the faker, catching scum flailing in surprise can happen but i don't feel one can plan for it.

my eyes keep reading your icon as a delicious cookie. :<

[Chara]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

how many players here came out of retirement for this game? i know i did, iirc Tammy as well?

[Chara]

as long as we're discussing is, i'd rather be in the Wall personally. being conftown/1v1 scum with conftown are not my favourite.

pedit: Prism is a bastard, yes.

[Chara]

so and so shouldn't be in the same game together, we're all playing the same game! all of the votes happen in this thread, we will all be yelling at each other. <3

[Chara]

I quoted 33 because I wanted to ask about quarantining faker in the first game but then I decided to not flood a game that's already 90 mph but I guess I'm asking now. Isn't making a slot miserable -EV?

regardless of EV, i'm not interested in doing something like that.

[Chara]

someone came out of retirement only to roll scum in this game, what a hilariously cruel fate

how many players here came out of retirement for this game? i know i did, iirc Tammy as well?

I was retired for TWO WHOLE WEEKS

aha, so you were talking about yourself!

my work here is done, etc. etc.

[Chara]

tell us the read kitty. is it me? i would like it to be me.

[Chara]

to be honest, i have almost no idea of how any of you conduct yourselves as scum vs. as town. whatever meta i did have was tossed out of my brain when i stopped playing. i would say Faker is the only one i have some direction on how to read, and they're difficult regardless.

[Chara]

Chara's new avi is too good

i'm glad you like it. i lost my whole library of avatars when my last laptop died, this was one of the few that was saved and i'm too lazy to remake any of them.

pedit: don't be fucking rude you made me play with you!!

[Chara]

tell us the read kitty. is it me? i would like it to be me.

Oh gosh Chara wants my attention (ღ˘⌣˘ღ)

I'm actually not planning to state any reads right now, for at least the first pat of the phase.


I think most players here are pretty capable of playing in a manner that appears conventionally town when we're following the prescribed formula of "making reads" so I'm going to eschew that entirely and engage solely in banter in order to gauge reactions.

thus making yourself very difficult to read!

i don't know how to play mafia without yelling about who is scum and who is town, kitty. i don't want to talk about the setup anymore. :<

[Chara]

Prism go to bed.

[Chara]

well, i an easy retail job, i've been medicated for a year now, and i'm enjoying my life. :> how are you catboi?

[Chara]

everyone stop posting for an hour to force Prism into a nap. if we all work together we can do it! hold hands and sing along!

[Chara]

i just want to be useful and not make aimless mech commentary while letting my eyes glaze over

is that so much to ask thing

(probably)

are you just pretending to be trying to leave only to come in with this Coral read? it feels like limp lettuce. if you're town you are a sleepy sleepy Faker who needs to sleep.

well, i an easy retail job, i've been medicated for a year now, and i'm enjoying my life. :> how are you catboi?

Glad to hear it! I'm doing fine myself, enjoying time off around the holidays, been gaming a little bit, was taking an enjoyable break from mafia (I was feeling fatigued) before I got yanked into this game by someone.

that's very nice to hear. i was also enjoying thinking i would never play mafia ever again.

pedit: lol

[Chara]

absinthe townlean? i can throw that out there too.

[Chara]

I'm sensing a pattern

would you share what you're referring to?

pedit: you're ffery, right?

[Chara]

like i said earlier, any meta i might have had is dried up. i do not remember a thing from our previous games together, or which ones we even played, barring that one secret alt game where i was scum.

[Chara]

booooo, give me reads or give me death!

[Chara]

like i said earlier, any meta i might have had is dried up. i do not remember a thing from our previous games together, or which ones we even played, barring that one secret alt game where i was scum.

Yggdrasil was our most recent game. morph hydra. Anything before FGO I is probably irrelevant.

But, I don't feel like I've done anything particularly town so far. I'm probably not as sleep deprived as Faker, but it has been a day.

i appreciate the reminders, but i'm not planning on doing any metadiving this game, even to my own games.

i threw out the townlean to have something i find more useful to talk about on the table. you've been floating around making short comments here and there, most of them exceedingly neutral, with the one exception being that question to Coral about the other player at the Gate being confirmed scum to the not-conftown. it was a good question to ask, but not anything seriously AI.
so, not really a townlean, just wanted to see how you'd react to it.

[Chara]

I'm not sold on the full read silence part of it. some reads are probably necessary to progress the game

With the early flood of posts, I've barely been trying to sort people so far, really. I have a total of two slight leans, I think, maybe three

is this the new style? :> we talk about

having

some kind of reads and then don't share them?

[Chara]

is skitter in the room with us right now?

Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>

<3 absinthe for giving game thoughts. if i've played with shiki before i don't remember, need more data this game to decide how i feel about it.

[Chara]

where activity go

i'm writing fanfiction

[Chara]

sorry demona, i said shiki because that's the UN i recognize most.

[Chara]

foodtell hour.

Chara I thought about your response to me while I was cooking.

I don't think you've ever tried to read me via meta, so that wasn't what I was probing in my reply to your townlean post. It's more a case of how my playstyle looks to you from what I gleaned in our games. My "do you know who I am" was to obliquely challenge your read and see how you justified it.

Your response that it was a sort of reaction test is good enough on the face of it.

But, the response also is in contrast to how I perceive your town game from our prior games. It comes off a little more assertive and confident than my recollection of your early play in Yggdrassil and Maplewood. Maybe a little more in line with the way scum you pushed me a little the first few pages of FGO.

On the gripping hand, it wasn't as fault-findy as your early FGO interactions with me and without our priors, I'd be hard-towning you for the assertiveness.

hmmm. i think you're attributing too much to our games together. how much of my confidence level can you reliably say is AI? and would you really hard-town that interaction from me if you didn't know me? what about it makes it so towny to you, in that hypothetical?

[Chara]

is skitter in the room with us right now?

Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>

<3 absinthe for giving game thoughts. if i've played with shiki before i don't remember, need more data this game to decide how i feel about it.

mmmmmmmmm

nnnnnn

why shiki?

like how did you choose to refer to me that way?

i don’t think anyone else had

and you’re saying you are unfamiliar with me and that you’re not going to meta this game

and the accounts you would be familiar with are pj harvey dent and madeline

and i listed three accounts when i signed up

so i wonder

i know the name shiki, i don't remember from where but it's the one i recognized in the signups when i went back to see who you were. i'm also passingly familiar with the Shiki anime series.

[Chara]

kind of want to take Tammy's dislike of rolling scum at face value and call that a scum entrance.
at the same time i feel such a read will figure itself out over the course of the day.

[Chara]

we can't all go to Keep, though i'd rather townhunt from outside the little Keep bubble than from within it.

[Chara]

oh and hello Tempest! and hello skitter. :>

[Chara]

kind of want to take Tammy's dislike of rolling scum at face value and call that a scum entrance.
at the same time i feel such a read will figure itself out over the course of the day.

to elaborate, feels self-conscious in a way i do not love.

[Chara]

you people are all too good at mafia. who am i supposed to reliably read? just demona i suppose.

pedit: sleepy time for Tammy. <3

[Chara]

I don't think tammy's entrance is ai

you just like being contrary to me specifically, don't you skitter. :>

[Chara]

kind of want to take Tammy's dislike of rolling scum at face value and call that a scum entrance.
at the same time i feel such a read will figure itself out over the course of the day.

to elaborate, feels self-conscious in a way i do not love.

Oh hi. People who don’t really know me tend to dislike my openings. Also I’m probably one of the most self-conscious people you’ll meet.

It’s all part of my charm

well, my uneducated opinion on you is that you'll towntell all over the place if town. i have no basis for this, but excited to play with you all the same. :>

[Chara]

i don't see why they wouldn't be able to by the rules. mod should be able to answer though.

[Chara]

no one asked me about my fanfiction.

[Chara]

144 reminding me why ffery is difficult to read. how lovely.

the reason i asked was because i don't feel i was being particularly assertive nor confident, i was just looking for a reaction and explained as such. i'm having trouble explaining myself but it seems like you are talking about different things than i am re: meta, given my questions didn't involve meta at all.

[Chara]

no one asked me about my fanfiction.

I was too scared, I've heard disturbing things

coward.

[Chara]

why would it be unlikely? you just said yourself that they could be said with the goal of getting towncred. skitter isn't saying the thoughts you shared are scummy by themselves

pedit: above is to Coral

[Chara]

I was enjoying retirement, and wouldn't have joined, but Prism's excitement is contagious! Also, massive car issues to sort through and today was kinda stressful on that front.

I don't know if that's contributing to weirdness or not. If it is, I've played weirdly in a lot of games over the years.

who in this game

wasn't

dragged into it by Prism, exactly?

[Chara]

...or perhaps she is saying that.

[Chara]

i just noticed my pronoun was gone and fixed it. i suppose they went ahead with that update?

[Chara]

tempted to sheep skitter on Coral read.

except it isn't a sheep, it's a goat. baaaaa.

hello again Isis, i missed you. what do you think about all these townreads you got?

[Chara]

I lowkey kinda wish someone had lolpicked a game - it would make it easier to then figure out where *other people* should go based off of thay

I'm not sure how we're now going to crack the ice to start placing people

i want the Wall!

presuming that's indeed the one that's like normal 3p LyLo.

[Chara]

tempted to sheep skitter on Coral read.

except it isn't a sheep, it's a goat. baaaaa.

hello again Isis, i missed you. what do you think about all these townreads you got?

I think if skitter wanted to pocket me she wouldn't pick 36 37.
I think Coral posting that her townreads are light and then randomly posting two hard townreads is eyebrows.
That's all I remember. Do you townread me?

Coral, are you ready to talk about Isis townread? :>

to answer you Isis, i have no read on you yet.

[Chara]

What does that even mean in this context

I think it feels to me like if you had thought about it on a deeper level then you wouldn't have found it to be a significant point. That may be my own bias in the situation, but still, it feels like when I attempt to guide you towards why I believe that to be the case, you are uninterested in trying.

It doesn't feel like an engagement meant to sort me, it feels like you've decided your point and don't want to look into it any further. Which, realistically, is your right! It still feels a bit wrong to me, though.

mmm, 'guiding her' is an interesting choice of words. aren't you trying to read skitter here, not guide her? is her read on you scummy to you?

[Chara]

Oh, was my joke really that bad? Perhaps my humour is too subtle and advanced

which post was the joke?

[Chara]

Coral, tell us about your Isis read! please. :>

I'd like to see what she does next first, if you don't mind, but I promise I will later!

so why make this post?

[Chara]

oh, you thought i was asking about your scumread on Isis.

pedit: yep, i understand now.

[Chara]

What does that even mean in this context

I think it feels to me like if you had thought about it on a deeper level then you wouldn't have found it to be a significant point. That may be my own bias in the situation, but still, it feels like when I attempt to guide you towards why I believe that to be the case, you are uninterested in trying.

It doesn't feel like an engagement meant to sort me, it feels like you've decided your point and don't want to look into it any further. Which, realistically, is your right! It still feels a bit wrong to me, though.

mmm, 'guiding her' is an interesting choice of words. aren't you trying to read skitter here, not guide her? is her read on you scummy to you?

Yes, guiding her towards the deeper meaning behind her point. I think I was clearly asking leading questions of her. She doesn't have to follow them if she doesn't want to, obviously.

Both for the goal of seeing if she did have a deeper meaning/analysis behind her point (and I didn't much like the fact that she didn't seem to), and for the goal of hopefully bringing us closer to finding each other as town if she is.

i think you have an interesting playstyle and an odd way of speaking that's easy to scumread offhand.

[Chara]

i misread it as referring to the previous

previous

post about how she only had two or three townleans...

[Chara]

what power!

i don't want to play the minigame with Isis because i want Isis to be town so i don't need to read her.

[Chara]

Gate

catboi
skitter30
Isis

Wall

Faker
Chara
demona

Keep

absinthe
Tempest
Coral

[Chara]

what power!

i don't want to play the minigame with Isis because i want Isis to be town so i don't need to read her.

Actually when you put it that way you are arguably the best player in lobby at reading me. Have we found another state where there is a +EV +MV minigame arrangement?

am i really? i don't remember how to read you! don't make me meta myself Isis, i don't want tooooo.

[Chara]

I think 266 is funnee and therefore it's +EV

you're the only one who understands me.

[Chara]

what power!

i don't want to play the minigame with Isis because i want Isis to be town so i don't need to read her.

Actually when you put it that way you are arguably the best player in lobby at reading me. Have we found another state where there is a +EV +MV minigame arrangement?

am i really? i don't remember how to read you! don't make me meta myself Isis, i don't want tooooo.

I snowed every other townie in Nightmare while you scumread me, then I NKed you and won the game

...fine, fine, i'll reread Nightmare!

[Chara]

give her a little kiss! keep kissing her until she leaves on her own.

pedit: goodnight Isis!

[Chara]

As scum?
I would try to avoid prism/catboi/isis

so my location placements were not a meme. they were partially random, but placed with the feeling of who would be able to solve each other without taking alignment into account.

the Wall placement was sort of leftovers, sort of "i think i can read demona, so if Prism was there with me that could inform my read of them too."

sorry to take the wind out of your sails, kitty, i was interested to see what others would say if i just dropped that and left. how did you come to your own grouping at the Gate?

quoted skitter here because i found it funny that scum skitter would want to avoid the players i put her with. i feel vindicated somehow. :>

[Chara]

Coral made me laugh, at paramount.

The retrospective of her early reads as corrected is a lot better than her misunderstood one. I haven't been chipper enough to radiate light this game and wait-and-see is actually an optimized way to fish for the Isis-hates-being-scum-tell, aggressive page 5s on me tend to false positive or fix the energy problem for scumisis.
I guess I have a more vivid picture of how she's trying to push the game into an unfogged state than like catboi as an outlier or everybody else generally (including demona fwiw, different reasoning there)

you always radiate light!

and i feel the same about Coral, though it was more the delay in realizing that she conducts herself in A Way and that focusing on that feels like the wrong way to read her, putting that aside her play does ring townish.

but also, i've been trying so hard, you don't see how i'm trying to move the game forward myself?

[Chara]

quoted skitter here because i found it funny that scum skitter would want to avoid the players i put her with. i feel vindicated somehow. :>

I also have quite a lot of trouble reading catboi and tend to violently misread isis so, uh, overall i think that would probably not be the most successful grouping

alright, fair. i've been thinking i want to be in a group with Isis anyway.

[Chara]

i'm concerned that skitter's "oh Tammy might actually be scum" post and my own initial read are both biasing me into continuing to read Tammy's contribitions as scum.

[Chara]

the more i think on it the more i like selecting groups based on who can read who, in the end there's going to be 1 scum per group and at least 2 of the original players will stay where they were put.

but trying to herd all scum into one group in the hopes of getting at least 2/3 also feels ideal.

i do not want to be in a group with Prism and kitty, in the nightmare realm where kitty is scum i think i have a bad bad time.

[Chara]

from a pure numbers standpoint, is it a good idea to herd universal-ish scumreads into Keep?

[Chara]

kitty/Tempest/absinthe is my early call. Isis could replace one.

[Chara]

eh, throw that out. i'm assuming skitter town out of laziness when i have no read on her.

[Chara]

kitty/Tempest/absinthe is my early call. Isis could replace one.

Interesting.

kitty/Tempest/absinthe is my early call. Isis could replace one.

Catboi is interesting

[Chara]

i've decided, group is Isis/Chara and whoever else wants to be there. not Keep. this is my only stipulation and it is serious!

[Chara]

Yeah i'm a littlr wary of coral going into a chara/isis game, esp. since isis is townreading coral ...

i've decided my group is Isis/Chara and whoever else wants to be there. not Keep because Chara doesn't want Keep. this is my only stipulation and it is serious

I do agree that Chara/Coral/Isis isn't best in Keep but also, let's throw them in the Keep against their will mwuhahahaha

our third doesn't need to be Coral. i'm not all that confident in reading her well, yet.

[Chara]

Isis quote was accidental, besides heart eyes.

[Chara]

i did explain why i put you where i did!

[Chara]

i did explain why i put you where i did!

i guess i meant more of not explaining why it would make us better to be at the wall than the keep

i don't have a strong opinion on either, the keep suggestion i put forth had to do with the keep being the easiest to solve and therefore warranting the more difficult to solve players. i think you'll be easier so putting you in the 3p LyLo makes sense to me, especially in the scenario where i'm there with Prism. frankly i think any argument of "i should be in the Keep" is a good one because of that, townhunting is just easier and it's just mathematically better for town in the Keep.

though that location assignment doesn't reflect much more than a passing "let's put this here and see what everyone says", it's not anything i'd stick to.

[Chara]

I've been loath to out my reads this game because I think showing your hand too much allows scum to exploit people's biases but I've been nursing a pocket scumread on Chara since 162 - just feels like a post scum makes - and haven't really had a moment from it that pinged towny and made me waver.

i would probably make that post as scum, it's not committing to much at all and throws a little shade on Tempest's entrance.

[Chara]

i meant more at the time of making the post, but you're right.

[Chara]

before we received roles, i'd already decided if i rolled scum i was not going to try and go the distance. just don't have it in me, especially after my last few scumgames. Isis could attest to that.

luckily it didn't happen, but for those who are concerned with my scumgame, i assure you it would break down in any kind of 3p lylo situation. so the Wall is good for Chara, and for everyone!

pedit: so in the end i find the read understandable, if not very illuminating about you.

[Chara]

what do you think about being placed with me and Isis at the Wall, Coral? i don't know who originally suggested it, iirc it was being discussed by skitter before Prism floated the idea more concretely.

i don't personally think it's a great placement for you.

sharing reads is usually productive, too?

[Chara]

I will say I'm starting to regret discouraging people from just picking their choices. Building consensus and going from there in a thread with 3 scum vs 6 town is maybe actually not likely to produce the best results, since town are rather unlikely to have strong placement opinions for others and could get influenced fairly easily

i don't know, it feels like several players do have very strong opinions on who goes where this game.

[Chara]

what do you think about being placed with me and Isis at the Wall, Coral? i don't know who originally suggested it, iirc it was being discussed by skitter before Prism floated the idea more concretely.

i don't personally think it's a great placement for you.

sharing reads is usually productive, too?

amending this, i meant it was being discussed by skitter as something she

didn't

want before Prism put the idea there, but i don't know who she was arguing against.

[Chara]

Gate's the IC one, Wall is the regular 3p LyLo minigame.

[Chara]

i love this game. i feel very comfortable.

[Chara]

but why?

[Chara]

i don't mind being at the Wall with demona and Isis, but i am surprised by the vote there. there was nothing really preventing you from voting for Keep if you wanted to go there and wanted to vote right now.

[Chara]

i sort of don't care where Faker goes at the moment, Prism can do what they want and i wasn't reading it. :>

[Chara]

you're putting a lot of stock into Faker's opinions, is there a townread there?

[Chara]

Not sure if I’ll watch season two when all the characters I found the most interesting won’t be there.

play the game with us Tammy! what are your reads? what do you think about shiki's dramatic Wall vote??

[Chara]

:<

[Chara]

Not sure if I’ll watch season two when all the characters I found the most interesting won’t be there.

play the game with us Tammy! what are your reads? what do you think about shiki's dramatic Wall vote??

I will do what I want to do when I want to do it.

Don’t act like I haven’t been here reading and playing all morning and didn’t say I was stepping away to do exactly what I did.

i was trying to be lighthearted about it. you said you were caught up and were going to give thoughts later, so when you came back i decided to poke.

[Chara]

i'm going to wait for Isis to return and then join the Wall with her unless someone stops me. :>

[Chara]

from a pure numbers standpoint, is it a good idea to herd universal-ish scumreads into Keep?

kitty/Tempest/absinthe is my early call. Isis could replace one.

eh, throw that out. i'm assuming skitter town out of laziness when i have no read on her.

Chara, was your pick of 3 names here meant to be your own scumreads, or your assessment of what "universal-ish scumreads" were? And what did the post about skitter have to do with it?

i've decided, group is Isis/Chara and whoever else wants to be there. not Keep. this is my only stipulation and it is serious!

I'm also curious if there's a game-related motivation behind this (as in, beyond just personal affinity/meshing well), and how you arrived at this decision. In this case, "I don't want to share yet" is a valid answer, but I would like to cash that in eventually if so

the three name picks were my scumreads, but with a null read on skitter they're not anything i want to put a lot of stock into, given two of them were her own scumreads and my own tendency to be more confident in my reads when someone else who is 'good at mafia' shares them. (meaning, i made the list and then went hm, this is probably influenced more than i'd like by skitter)

and i have a game-related reason for me/Isis being a group i'd really like.

[Chara]

yes, catboi is kitty, i call skitter skitter.

[Chara]

looking at 411 and 413 next to each other, i do see the confusion. they don't have anything to do with each other, no, 411 was just an idle thought.

pedit: sounds terrible! good luck absinthe.

[Chara]

tempest kind of feels town on page 21/22 and now I'm really lost and probably won't have strong feelings about the game until we get to day 2


I'm probably just going to send myself to the keep tonight in the next few hours, if anyone has an issue with that speak now or hold your peace

i want to use all of our day 1 time, so i'd rather you didn't. no issue with you going there eventually.

[Chara]

what is 592 in response to, Prism?

but i am a treat, you're right.

[Chara]

absinthe scum was a feeling i had, not much to it besides that.

[Chara]

reread that part of my ISO, the townlean wasn't genuine.

[Chara]

not as far as i could read, am distracted with a movie currently.
i don't want to usher in the end of this phase, though. i wouldn't mind being in the Gate with you either.

[Chara]

i'm actually going to

V/LA Saturday/Sunday

because i have some delightful evening shifts. will still be checking in.

[Chara]

68 is irrelevant because it's about meta, 171 is my impression from demona of "this looks pretty town" rather than "i think i can read demona".

and 410 is my chara's folly trauma.

[Chara]

the folly was mine. do you get it.

[Chara]

actually it is also partially a feeling of being able to read demona, but not because of meta, just because of intuition.

[Chara]

no one is online at the exact window i'm online. life is simply unfair, don't you think?

[Chara]

that is a very fair question. the feeling of being able to read demona is not something i could defend to myself, i think, given it is not based on any fact i can point to, but sometimes my intuition knows more than my conscious mind does and i occasionally find i should listen to it.

the townread i had to go back to see, page 6 demona is very towny, suspicion of being referred to as shiki and all of the hmming, etc. approach to suspicious behavior feels real to me.

pedit: this post is to Fake about demona.

[Chara]

ut here there's nothing, just what we have today where people are just focusing on the setup or not saying anything much because they don't need to prove themselves town today or because they don't want scum to know their thoughts, which well whatever but I kinda think that sucks

oh i agree here, there are certain things there's value in keeping hidden but i don't think we can just sit around waiting for day 2 in the hopes we'll suddenly content to read about when we haven't been making it.

besides the who wants to go where discussion, there's value in it but not enough to base the whole game on personally.

[Chara]

i'm going to conclude kitty is scum regardless of what grouping he ends up in, just watch.

[Chara]

have you considered learning Latin, Faker? you could read philosophical works in their original language! what fun!

[Chara]

so you're a coward too. do it anyway.

[Chara]

i've been trying to learn trivia so i know something about the world. i've reached pre-Socratic philosophy and internalized almost none of it, but i know who [redacted] and [redacted] are now.

_{edited - ydra}

[Chara]

so you're a coward too. do it anyway.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=mirrors

what does this mean. i'm not scared of anything.

[Chara]

i would say my playstyle is Goofinsian.

[Chara]

have you considered learning Latin, Faker? you could read philosophical works in their original language! what fun!

I’m eating dinner so I’ll respond to other people in a bit, but do you read Latin?

not very well.

[Chara]

Spoiler: Chara do not click

[Chara]

i could bring Isis to Gate to

Keep

skitter happy.

[Chara]

Isis <3

[Chara]

i want to take Isis with me to the Wall but i do not want to lock in a whole location and fuck with whatever else is going on. but i am not smart enough to figure out what groupings should go where!

[Chara]

I shouldn't have talked so much about my reads on day one of the first Fortress game.

how were your reads used against you in the first Fortress game? is that why you found yourself shifted by scum?

[Chara]

68 is irrelevant because it's about meta, 171 is my impression from demona of "this looks pretty town" rather than "i think i can read demona".

and 410 is my chara's folly trauma.

Demona does look pretty town it's also the townread in the game I feel I can pull out of the 1000 jigsaw and put down as a corner piece.

I feel waffly about others.

With coral I just wanna eat the waffle anyway since it's just track record doubt

Oh this morning I tried to use the waffle iron but I misread the markings about how much batter to and overflowed it and I didn't know how to fix it so I just left without eating anything

at least you tried to use the waffle iron! i find it an intimidating device. next time you can learn from your mistake because you tried today!

i don't know what to do about a good... 50% of this game. common sense is telling me to ISO Tempest and really dig into that but i do not want to, i want to write instead.

[Chara]

I basically had it filed under "To do with Chara/Coral" and when I saw page 5 was Chara/Coral thought that was it, I actually had to hunt for skitter/Coral

what is your approach to reading me anyways, Prism? in this game in particular. i know you didn't come out with anything you felt strongly about one way or the other, but i'm wondering about your methodology, if anything.

pedit: answer this in the morning then, i support sleep.

[Chara]

does anyone...

want

to go to Gate?

[Chara]

Prism come with Isis and i to the Gate

[Chara]

let's take a break and have a friendship party in the Gate and eat gumdrops and dance with sugarplum fairies.

[Chara]

let's take a break and have a friendship party in the Gate and eat gumdrops and dance with sugarplum fairies.

I'm a fairy who is the other fairy

i'm the sugarplum sparkles, and the other fairy is whoever we want it to be.

i still don't really want to go to the Gate and god forbid be conftown but i care most about having a nice time and if no one else wants to go there, i'll happily bite the pellet of ultra-dense fruitcake with you.

[Chara]

does anyone...

want

to go to Gate?

I do now that it sounds very available since 99.9 repeating percent of my interest is with who I go with

i guess i don’t really understand why you wouldn’t want to come to wall with me if you’re the most sure that i am town and the wall would therefore be more or less solved from your perspective without one of us being switched

but also as i said to catboi earlier i get that i am not always easy to play with and such and if your interest is solely who you go with yeah i get it

i dunno how, like, qualified i would be to sort you/chara but i feel like it would make sense to come to wall from your perspective outside of the people aspect yeah

i would be happy to go to the Wall with you! i just don't want to doom other subpar pairings to the Gate/Keep by doing so. from the perspective of where i feel the most confident it is indeed the Wall with you and Isis, i am just entertaining other possibilities and also bothering Prism.

[Chara]

Is anyone strongly townreading chara?
And if yes, why?

what's up with this question skitter!! if i didn't know better i would say you scumread me or something. :>

[Chara]

oh my goodness i keep forgetting Ydrasse is here with us. hello Ydrasse!! i hope you're having fun running this game. perhaps i will find some poetry to post later.

[Chara]

More like i'm realizing i don't have a reason to townread you
You're like one tier above my solve if that makes sense

Ought i be townreading you?

i'd find it strange if you were, given our history together.

but i felt compelled to say something given no one is townreading me, as far as i know.

[Chara]

does anyone...

want

to go to Gate?

I do now that it sounds very available since 99.9 repeating percent of my interest is with who I go with

i guess i don’t really understand why you wouldn’t want to come to wall with me if you’re the most sure that i am town and the wall would therefore be more or less solved from your perspective without one of us being switched

but also as i said to catboi earlier i get that i am not always easy to play with and such and if your interest is solely who you go with yeah i get it

i dunno how, like, qualified i would be to sort you/chara but i feel like it would make sense to come to wall from your perspective outside of the people aspect yeah

I mean you're probably town and if I go with you and Chara to wall and scum don't have to add scum to the wall Chara is probably scum. But I think the game's EV as a whole is higher if I get to read Chara, in or out of a context of reevaluating your slot although the benefit is probably greater out?

The problem with math based on reads so far is that it's all double downs. If consensus reads are good right now those aren't needed. Chemistry is always good, even if consensus reads are warped

i think this has cemented it for me. i want to go to the Gate with you, Isis, but i should probably care about who goes there with us. and if that isn't possible, Isis/Chara/demona is a lovely arrangement at the Keep and the fringe benefits of both of us being at the Gate instead (never thought i would be saying that,

really

) may be negligible enough it doesn't really matter.

Did I just write one of the posts I've been having trouble reading

i thought it was very understandable.

[Chara]

...i meant Wall, not Keep.

[Chara]

don't worry about it, Isis.

[Chara]

i promise to post a fanfic excerpt on day 2.

[Chara]

I think i'm kinda at:

Wall - demona, me, coral
Gate - chara, isis, {ffery/tammy}
Keep - catboi, faker, {ffery/tammy}

Tammy in Gate, ffery in Keep, objectively the funniest arrangement.
but also one i don't hate.

though i'm really tempted to ask Isis to vote Wall right now and then hammer it. so very tempted.

[Chara]

goodnight all, it's time for me to sleep.

[Chara]

i'm back, i have a killer headache and a sub sandwich. did i get locked out of being with Isis while i was gone?

[Chara]

If you ask me a cool question about the game I will have four hours of hundreds of hairs being incinerated by electric probe to ponder that question as I stare at the ceiling and listen to whatever music my tech happens to like

Pedit: how do you remotivate as scum I can't remember ever winning scum except by starting motivated and staying motivated
This must be an anime boi power

i think you listen to your favourite vocaloids from the 2000s and recapture the lost innocence of your youth.

[Chara]

Fakerrrr please give Chara gamestate tldr so i can decide if i can nap or if i need to be here <3

[Chara]

ah, you have things to do today. go on, get.

[Chara]

would i end the day if i did?? someone tell me!! i want to vote with Isis!

[Chara]

that sounds very plausible, skitter.

also Isis, why did you choose then to vote?

[Chara]

okay, by the grace of god and ibuprofen i choose to trust Faker on this.

[Chara]

I scumread that post but I'm just going to pretend I see nothing until Day 2 after swaps happen

1189 from Chara

this post isn't about your reads that i didn't read Prism it's about Tempest voting the Gate and Chara being allowed to sleep

[Chara]

Chara/catboi/coral

Pedit then why does catboi just, like, accept going to keep? Idk why he loses motivation right then

Pedit2 i think i read all of that pressure retroactively, it didnt seem so strong to me after the fact but fair enuf

don't start scumreading me now you're going to make me have to catch up now. :<

[Chara]

i hate myself. i have so many thoughts and nothing i'd like to add until day 2. i've become what i railed against.

pedit: i believed you when you said you'd have a hard time in a minigame with kitty initially but you did get over that pretty quick. :>

[Chara]

Chara/Coral/skitter gate looks like the biggest clusterfuck of wildly clashing styles and if nothing else it'd be popcorn worthy

I'm down to see what Chara says

i will start crying, for real.

[Chara]

hm, it looks like
VOTE: Wall

[Chara]

appreciation to both of you for considering my enjoyment so strongly, however. and this is a very interesting series of pages.

[Chara]

I'm not sure i'm following what she's trying to say

if everyone fine with it being locked in as it was and as was proposed some time ago and there are two people left to lock in it seems much more likely to force two mafia into one location if those players are switched, yes?

like you said you thought 1/1/1 was likely as proposed

would this not make that less likely?

this makes sense to me. it's sort of like... the Monty Hall problem? i know i am not a goat, but i don't know whether Isis is a goat, and this would theoretically upset a potential 1/1/1.

i did read this and consider it before i decided to vote.

[Chara]

That does make chara scummier imo

See y'all on the other side

Part of me thinks it would have just let Tempest lock in instead but idk

I thought it took a selfless bullet and was going to shed a tear of pride but instead it WANTS TO HAVE FUN and I respect it

you didn't tell me there were tears of pride on the line.

[Chara]

see you soon everyone. <3

[Chara]

40 episodes of One Piece in one day is probably my record. but that's with skipping the openings and recaps to achieve a 20 minute viewing period per episode.

[Chara]

fuck you

[Chara]

Isis is scum at... i want to say 80% confidence, which for me is very high. this is the outcome i expected if demona wasn't swapped out, though that doesn't mean i'm any more prepared for the next phase.

[Chara]

i think she's been playing defensively since we started. it'd be the easiest win in a minigame for her to miselim me, though i do think her desire to go where i go is also a genuine "i want to play with Chara" feeling and not a ploy, just one that happens to also work out with her goals.

i was really hoping for this outcome because i think if Isis and i

are

both town we can find each other, even if demona if scum is being exceedingly town to me and Isis both. unfortunately the game has in a way just started.

i got sidetracked but my main reasoning is this is an ideal situation for scum Isis. i started considering it seriously in 236, it feels like she's been playing to me to make me easier to handle. (and that Coral read is very... i don't know, obvious?)
when i said i didn't want to be in a minigame with her and i just hoped she was town, she brought up the time i was rightly suspicious of her as scum. a way to make me more confident i can read her.

i haven't reread with this in mind re: the timing of demona's locking in Wall.

[Chara]

Isis is scum at... i want to say 80% confidence, which for me is very high. this is the outcome i expected if demona wasn't swapped out, though that doesn't mean i'm any more prepared for the next phase.

feel free to vote for isis

i would be super happy to play as confirmed (noone is

really

going to argue that i stayed in the game as a scum to, like, manipulate the other games or whatever, right?)

i'm not going to just yet, i'd like to speak to Isis first.

[Chara]

i am already at work, so playing mafia is technically less work.

a lot of it is town demona, if we were in Wall with Coral or something i'd be at a much lower confidence level, but in that scenario i think scum Isis's motivation would be to get me to vote with her rather than setting up a 1v1 between me and her.

[Chara]

i'd also like to point out that between Isis and demona at the wall vs. the configuration at the gate, does scum Chara choose to duke it out against Isis?

[Chara]

not a lot of what i say tends to make sense to you, skitter.
what doesn't make sense about it?

[Chara]

I think voting for isis is a loss there for town

so you think i am mafia…?

Sorry i got the minigames confused, nm
But i think chara is scum there

i'm confused about this whole post, how does voting for Isis being a loss for town make demona mafia? the wall wincon is voting scum, if voting is a loss that means she's town to skitter, not that demona is scum.
what do you mean by getting the minigames confused?

[Chara]

"defensive" wouldn't really be a word that comes to mind to describe Isis's play although I see your point about 236 I guess, will review it at some point. Had lingering suspicion of Isis for gut reasons but with the clarity of distributions things are coming into focus more so not as sure.

i'm using defensive to mean cautious, not to mean defending herself. like setting up defenses around oneself, not showing weak points or taking risks.

[Chara]

It's about who town has to pick between. skitter is probably more afraid of my scumplay than any other player at the table. I'm not good at reading her and have got it reversed basically every time.

You and catboi are tied
Which is why i'm not thrilled to be here

how about the third option?

[Chara]

not a lot of what i say tends to make sense to you, skitter.
what doesn't make sense about it?

I don't get why you're excited to go to keep with scum isis

you mean Wall, i assume.

because i thought she was scum before, and i thought the best chance of me confirming that is having demona here with us, and scum didn't end up messing with the configuration with swaps. so i get to try and do the thing i've been hoping to do all game, which is win a minigame under my own power.
and in the scenario where we're both wrong on demona i believe we can figure it out, so to me it's a win/win. i don't think that's where we are though.

[Chara]

It's about who town has to pick between. skitter is probably more afraid of my scumplay than any other player at the table. I'm not good at reading her and have got it reversed basically every time.

You and catboi are tied
Which is why i'm not thrilled to be here

how about the third option?

?

you could get them to vote for you?

[Chara]

what are you even trying to achieve by debating me, faker?

trying to get u 2 throw LMAO

boooooo

[Chara]

is this how it usually is with you two?

[Chara]

is this how it usually is with you two?

yes

is this how it usually is with you two?

Not really. This is somewhat close to Undertale 1.

He's being super aggressive and combative but it sucks first off and second off I know he can do it as scum.

lol

[Chara]

Hi everyone. I had a bunch of thoughts written out that I'm not sure if they're useful to post at this point. With the swap I'm at like 90% thinking it's absinthe/catboi/Chara

what's your confidence raiting on absinthe?

[Chara]

So... I strongly scumread Chara. I haven't wanted to reveal this at all because part of what tipped me towards the read was feeling like Chara was trying consistently to pocket people, and I wanted it to think that it had succeeded with me (and possibly tempt the scumteam to then swap me into Wall for demona, so they can IC demona, hoping I vote Isis).

who do you feel i was trying to pocket, and where was i trying to pocket you this game?

and can you point to where you were trying to make me think i'd pocketed you? i don't think we interacted much past that one conversation i remember regarding Isis.

[Chara]

Hi everyone. I had a bunch of thoughts written out that I'm not sure if they're useful to post at this point. With the swap I'm at like 90% thinking it's absinthe/catboi/Chara

what's your confidence raiting on absinthe?

Prior to the swap, like 60% maybe? In a vacuum I thought she was scummy but I thought we were at 1-1-1 and I was starting to suspect catboi more.

Now, 100%, obviously

hahaha, admittedly that was a bit of a joke question to see if you'd say anything besides 100%.

[Chara]

it was the scumread idea and believing we could read each other well, i think i was being coy about the read too and hoping it'd look like my preference was largely personal + thinking i could read Isis.

[Chara]

and can you point to where you were trying to make me think i'd pocketed you? i don't think we interacted much past that one conversation i remember regarding Isis.

It was more that I was trying not to break that impression by stating a scumread. I'm also fairly bad at faking that sort of thing as town, for some reason, so I mostly just tried to avoid the topic.

The only real active choices I made were
1) not being clear about my read
2) not continuing to pressure the point in 588

Speaking of, was the game-related reason your scumread there?

my question also meant to include what behavior from me you were interpreting as pocketing? i just find it hard to believe you thought i would think i'd pocketed you somehow.

[Chara]

though now that i say it... i also can't believe scum Coral thinks she has a case for me pocketing her at all, so i find it have to accept that part of it as genuine.

[Chara]

Spare me yours, it's sickening to look at.

I'll work with you on me being town if Tempest wants you as the voter, but otherwise I'm not entertaining this any further.

what's your read on skitter and why, Prism?

[Chara]

it doesn't really feel like kitty is playing chicken? it sounds more like you're being surly, Prism. at least to my view.

[Chara]

I would prefer on me since i know i'm town but eh

if a vote is placed on not you and you are town then town loses the keep

unless the ‘eh’ was like,

like ‘well we all lose sometimes’

in which case yes but also! i would rather not

there's two town in the keep! if skitter's town she can win the keep by voting the other town.

[Chara]

Gate

catboi
skitter30
Isis

Wall

Faker
Chara
demona

Keep

absinthe
Tempest
Coral

This is unrelated to the points I'm currently working on making, but I saw it while reading and thought it was interesting how close this got to the final groupings.

i was going to say these aren't close at all, but the Keep is exactly our current Gate config after all, hahaha.

[Chara]

i'm going to let the more logically-minded (good at mafia) players handle the solve order. absolutely none of my current thoughts have to do with team possibilities.

[Chara]

i think if you want us to be in a game together, saying i know how to read you is a good way to get there. but i do believe you'd do the same thing as town because town Isis also wants Chara to read her right (and be in a game with her!) so that isn't why i think you're scum, just an idea about what i thought scum Isis was doing there.

[Chara]

You love me

i do love you!

[Chara]

Chara, do you mind explaining

does anyone...

want

to go to Gate?

I do now that it sounds very available since 99.9 repeating percent of my interest is with who I go with

i guess i don’t really understand why you wouldn’t want to come to wall with me if you’re the most sure that i am town and the wall would therefore be more or less solved from your perspective without one of us being switched

but also as i said to catboi earlier i get that i am not always easy to play with and such and if your interest is solely who you go with yeah i get it

i dunno how, like, qualified i would be to sort you/chara but i feel like it would make sense to come to wall from your perspective outside of the people aspect yeah

I mean you're probably town and if I go with you and Chara to wall and scum don't have to add scum to the wall Chara is probably scum. But I think the game's EV as a whole is higher if I get to read Chara, in or out of a context of reevaluating your slot although the benefit is probably greater out?

The problem with math based on reads so far is that it's all double downs. If consensus reads are good right now those aren't needed. Chemistry is always good, even if consensus reads are warped

i think this has cemented it for me. i want to go to the Gate with you, Isis, but i should probably care about who goes there with us. and if that isn't possible, Isis/Chara/demona is a lovely arrangement at the Keep and the fringe benefits of both of us being at the Gate instead (never thought i would be saying that,

really

) may be negligible enough it doesn't really matter.

in context of today's opening post? The quote this is responding to, 939, suggests she'd townread demona over you in Wall.

Daystart post lines up pretty well with its Day 1 statements overall.

i'm not sure what to explain, could you tell me what isn't lining up for you so i know what to address? i can explain why i liked the idea of going to the gate, but i don't know what that has to do with my opener.

[Chara]

ftr, i don't even remember why i was interested by the Gate, i believe i hoped one of us would be ICed and thus i could read Isis/she could read me and thus not have to solve a difficult player who goes to the Gate with us.

[Chara]

Faker please don't demand to be the voter that's like stupid and unfun
Idk how to parse that as something other than hubris over wincon.
Weird stuff like that is how you play mafia as both alignments but if you really came to this game wanting people to have more fun than usual please just win your minigame instead of [[making your minigame and the entire game about you, then win your minigame]].

+Isis lovepost +Isis scumpost

[Chara]

i didn't think she was trying to pocket me with 939.

[Chara]

Isis is nice and she's going to be nice to me as either alignment, just like i'll do the same to her. but she's certainly not trying to pocket me if scum this game by townreading me.

[Chara]

I hope you're town, thing. Truly from the bottom of my soul.

Which really isn't very far down, the soul is barely existent

why do you hope that? :>

[Chara]

I expected you to make more of an attempt to make things "fit" rather than immediately just give a correct, owning it answer.

who is this responding to?

[Chara]

hello caught up Isis! if you're town i'm very sorry, i think demona is town and i do not think you are.

[Chara]

i'd vote skitter in the Keep, i'm not sure about the Gate right now. leaning Coral town but i don't know why scum absinthe does any of what happened last night.

[Chara]

I liked Coral's overnight post. I think absinthe should be the elimination.
My minigame is still most likely scum!Chara when laid out flat but demona taking victory laps and not sorting is leaning me back. I've seen demona stop doing things when ahead as scum, I guess I've paid less attention to whether that's happened as town. I'd like it better if my demona townread was a cord of two or three strands instead of just being "demona's own arc putting self into a minigame" though I still view that as a strong strand.
Chara what kind of imminence do you have on voting me? In one breath you say you want finding demonascum together to be a real possibility but in another you keep speaking with enough finality that that wouldn't really be possible, not because I'm literally hammered but because town!you couldn't be keeping your mind all that open with a tinkaton hammer on your shoulder.
Pedit: ok yeah more finality, just discussing the next minigames instead of most of my ketchup Do you view our minigame as over? It feels like the nudge of difference between demona having a very good protown arc and being informed

you interpreted 1554 as finality? it's just my current thoughts.

and i think finding demona scum together

is

a real possibility. if i thought our minigame was over i'd have voted already, and i wouldn't have greeted you the way i did in 1553.

[Chara]

Pedit: ok yeah more finality, just discussing the next minigames instead of most of my ketchup Do you view our minigame as over? It feels like the nudge of difference between demona having a very good protown arc and being informed

actually i'd like to talk about this further. what part of your catch up should i have been responding to there? you didn't say anything new or interesting (as relating to my scumread on you). why is it scummy to you to throw out my thoughts on the other minigames after saying hello?

[Chara]

maybe run at me if you’re town and you’re really worried about me do the thing until you’re not worried anymore instead of waiting for me to do the thing if the issue you’re having is mainly that i am not currently doing the thing

pedit: continuation of last post

have you talked about your reads on me and Isis, demona? that'd be what i'm most interested in seeing right now. apologies if it happens later in my catch-up but i've learned to just ask the questions as they occur lest i forget about them entirely.

[Chara]

Actually rereading today's posts i think coral looks a lot more townir than she did yesterday

Some of the hypotheticals contradicted by the nightswaps seem at minimum tedious to fake.

i don't really agree, i think she could have written those on day 1 just as easily (and posted them) so it isn't any more difficult to fake them overnight.

it doesn't do much for my read of her either way, is my point.

i go back and forth on Coral but i do kind of like the "what about my secret Chara scumread" post because it's just so... not something i would expect scum to just come out and say but i could see town finding unfair, in a silly sort of way.

[Chara]

kitty said the same thing in the exact next post, anyway. in fact he's been making the most sense to me all day, i really don't understand Prism's... hostility about this whole day but i'm not really keen on touching it much more than that either.
kitty making sense isn't AI to me, i think?

[Chara]

i'd appreciate it too, i don't feel like reading more arguments on who is right about who is behaving worse.

[Chara]

@Coral, i'd be interested in you pointing at what play of mine felt pockety to you, and particularly what made you think scum Chara thought it had successfully pocketed you. the longer you don't point to the posts the more i'm ? about it. i'm not looking for a long case here, just an answer of why you felt the way you do.

[Chara]

"worse" is disingenuous given that you clearly think he did nothing wrong at all but whatever

you're right, i was trying to be diplomatic. i don't have all of this context between you two and i have no way of having it. i'm sorry if he's said something that was very hurtful to you and i didn't understand the implications of it, and i'm sorry you aren't having a good time right now, but i've spoken up as i have been when your posts have been making the game less enjoyable to

me

and making it feel very personal.

[Chara]

Short answer is that I think I pocketed myself moreso than you taking direct action, but there were a few points that stood out. I did halfway type up a post about them and then got a combination of unsure/distracted/lazy/bored. I will get to that tonight, though.

you pocketed yourself on my behalf and came out with a scumread on me? that's new. i suppose you should get better at pocketing then.

[Chara]

i don't know what to do now.

[Chara]

Chara why did you switch from not wanting to minigame with me early d1 to wanting to late d1? I am like 100% sure you told me but want to hear it again and you're welcome to take that admission and yell at me instead

you reminded me of that game and i decided i might be able to read you, and i thought it would be fun.

[Chara]

Catboi or Skitter scum
Absinthe or Coral scum
Demona Isis or Chara scum.

we already know this to be an absolute truth (besides Math being town of course) due to the nature of the game. 1 scum is confirmed in each mini game, this is just that restated. is that the point? the only difference is you've taken Math out of the skitter/catboi group because it's your pov.

[Chara]

Chara wanting you & Faker to take a break reminds me of how it tried to make peace between my hydra and LLD.

do you think that's an AI behavior? Faker is my friend as well.

[Chara]

if it's not obvious my energy's tanked, hopefully i bounce back sooner rather than later.

[Chara]

absinthe: i'd rather it not be called peacemaking, i didn't help anything and actively made it worse. but, i should sleep and try not to dwell i suppose.