Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Toto]

OMG IT'S GODZILLA!!!!!!!!!!!
VOTE: Magna

[Toto]

I'm waiting for scum to post, any minute now.

[Toto]

The hawk is town. Hawk get your vote off me so I can sheep you.

[Toto]

VOTE: Hawk

He asked for a wagon on him so I'm obliging.

This vote must be changed. Or I'll consider this a scumclaim.

[Toto]

FU MUSIC BOX, I gave you enough time!

VOTE: Music BOX

[Toto]

nebula - This guy is interesting, to say the least. At first he looked pretty suspicious but after looking over his responses they're fairly solid. The one thing that sticks out is his inconsistencies about early wagons, which I would partially attribute to him being at the butt of it.

Oh, hi, Sesk. Could you point out the inconsistencies, and I can try to explain them?

I think you are town.

It's in Hawk's above post. As for them, your logic seems to be more solid but I just really have a gut feel towards you. Toto's sheep play is sort of alarming to me. I don't see why MB is scum beyond using bad logic.

Anyone voting my townreads is getting murdered in this game. Fuck logic.

[Toto]

Hawk is a townread. He is asking good questions.

[Toto]

ONE MINUTE ISN'T ENOUGH TIME!!!

ONe MINUTE IS ENOUGH TIME. ENOUGH SAID.

[Toto]

ONE MINUTE ISN'T ENOUGH TIME!!!

ONe MINUTE IS ENOUGH TIME. ENOUGH SAID.

Also, this rule does not apply in general. Like, I know, of course, one minute is not enough time in some situations.

[Toto]

It's called sarcasm.

[Toto]

So you guys think Sesq and Riley don't understand the joke or are they opportunistic scum trying to find reasons to look like they are scumhunting?

[Toto]

I voted him for voting my townread...

[Toto]

I dont understand the part about sesq explain again

[Toto]

Oh I get it now.

[Toto]

I voted him for voting my townread...

Okay!!! So why is that bad?? Do ya expect everyone to have the same reads as you? Or do ya think that only scum will vote who ya find town??

Basically I think Im better at finding town than scum. When I have found enough town we will murder everyone else for the win.

[Toto]

Godzilla, get off hawk. Im ok with with uzi.

[Toto]

Oh really? Please quote his posts before 55 that you think are indicative of Town and explain why. If anything he’s on the scum side of Null for me.

41 and 47 look like town to me. I think he is genuinely trying to figure nebula out, and not trying to do so for the looks or to trap them. That was the most town like interaction I had looked at so far.

[Toto]

Don't like this guy

VOTE: Nebbie

[Toto]

KAIN TEPES, are you TOWN like me this game?

[Toto]

Nah. I want to see this fucker wagoned.

[Toto]

I'M TOWN TOO!

[Toto]

See neb? This is what opportunistic looks like.

Actually, I don't like this post at all. You push Nebula then people who jump on the wagon are opportunistic scum?
VOTE: sesq

[Toto]

It's kind of a perspective slip. If you are scum reading nebula why do you not expect town to be jumping on the wagon instead?

[Toto]

You said murdered instead of lynched.

Are you fucking serious?

[Toto]

Wait. Nebula = penguin? Wtf?

Nebula sounds so fake. I like penguin more.

[Toto]

It meant that I didnt have strong SRs so far. Also if there were scum yet to post it would hopefully make them more nervous.

[Toto]

btw penguin just claimed jailkeeper.

[Toto]

Nebula softclaimed twice now. It only makes sense if he is a jailkeeper. Doctor would not softclaim this early.

[Toto]

Nope. You did softclaim. Denying it is a scumclaim.

VOTE: nebula

[Toto]

You softclaimed in p2 or something. If you are town you are dumb. But we know you are not that stupid so you must he scum breadcumbing.

[Toto]

Ahem.... I don't want to intrude. just wanted to point out that nebula SCUMCLAIMED!

Why the hell are you not voting him?

[Toto]

Like I don't care if you guys lynch me today as long as you lynch this scumfuck tomorrow.

[Toto]

@Toto can you point out where he scum claimed? Also point out his breadcrumbs cause I only saw where he said "Lynching me would be bad" which isn't exactly a claim but I get where you're coming from and think that's a pretty scummy answer to give if he's not soft claiming anything.

"Lynching me would be bad" is a PR softclaim. His failure to acknowledge this is a scumclaim. I don't even want to the real jailkeeper to counter claim. This is 100% scum.

[Toto]

err.. finding scum?

[Toto]

"So dumb"" means you believe I'm town BTW.

[Toto]

you should not lynch me.

[Toto]

You should vote Sesq, because I am a bad lynch.

[Toto]

I thought you are scum and at the same time are soft-claiming PR to later trade yourself with one of our PRs if it comes to that. In the worst case I out the jailkeeper who can be protected by the doctor in the best case I find scum.

Why are you not voting me?

[Toto]

In a 1v1 situation, you can say "hey guys I've been claiming this all game long". Or maybe you simply are trying bait the doctor to "protect" you during the night.

[Toto]

I already explained. Read. Why are you not voting me if you don't understand the town motivation?

[Toto]

if only one scum is left jailer is almost a cop.

[Toto]

that's... it?

[Toto]

You seemed to respond quickly now though.

And no, nothing is more important than forum mafia. I tell that to my family all the time.

[Toto]

Why the delayed response to that?

I thought it was a joke the first time.

[Toto]

In post 119, Toto wrote:
41 and 47 look like town to me. I think he is genuinely trying to figure nebula out, and not trying to do so for the looks or to trap them. That was the most town like interaction I had looked at so far.

What about the contradiction he claimed to have found in nebula's post?

It does seem a bit like he was pulling for scraps. But maybe it was bad use of logic.

[Toto]

Where was the softclaim? You can't just say "U SOFTCLAIMED" without showing where.

I've already quoted both instances.

[Toto]

you should not lynch me.

You should vote Sesq, because I am a bad lynch.

[Toto]

OMG YOU CAUGHT ME YES, I CONFESS!

[Toto]

He says: "You should vote Sesq,

BECAUSE I'M A BAD LYNCH

"

Not: You should vote Sesq,

BECAUSE HE IS SCUM

.

Note the difference.

[Toto]

nice deflect

[Toto]

I'm all for people forming their own opinions.

Everyone: that's how scum giving up looks like.

[Toto]

Nebula came to mind when he softclaimed again. I dismissed the RVS one because it wasnt so strong. But when he did it again I had to bring it up.

Mafia has a lot to gain breadcumbing a fake claims. It draws the real doctor and makes them waste their protection. It helps mafia in case they are forced to hardclaim we could end up lynching the jk first. There may be scenarios where trading with a jk in this setup is beneficial for mafia.

Also I dont believe penguin is a dumb player. Either he didnt softclaim or he is scum.

Where did I generalize?

[Toto]

Also, even if I was wrong and he was jk it would be better this way.

Let me ask you a question, luv. What is the town motivation for softclaiming in this set up?

The only person that has some motivation to softclaim is the jk that wants to let the doc know who he is. If he softclaims and mafia picks it up and the doc misses it then jk is dead. Thats why softclaiming is a dumb play here. Either hardclaim or stfu.

P-edit i did not like his forced tone and also the fact he lied about being a alt.

[Toto]

Also his reaction to my push is screaming scum to me.

[Toto]

I thought that softclaim didnt make sense so early from town so I brought it up so we could discuss it. And you didnt answer my question. What town motivation is there to softclaim?

[Toto]

Yes, his reaction is scummy. Discuss it away.

[Toto]

Sure. Do you think thats what he was trying to do though?

[Toto]

Yes. But town believing I was dumb would have reacted more aggresively. He just wanted the conversation to go away

[Toto]

Nebula, why does deathtunneling my scumread makes me bad town though?

[Toto]

There is only one way to find out.

[Toto]

There is only one way to find out.

[Toto]

Are the other people in your wagon badtowm too. What makes me special?

[Toto]

Yes. But town believing I was dumb would have reacted more aggresively. He just wanted the conversation to go away

I have a feeling this comes from knowing that nebula is an alt. I could see PP reacting that way but I think we have all forgotten this is supposed to be a different side to PP.

What's wrong with wanting it to go away? I can see him easily wanting it forgotten and even buried so scum would forget it was even brought up.

Your last paragraph only makes sense if you thought he IS a PR. I thought said you dont believe he softclaimed.

[Toto]

Why would he want scum to 'forget' (Which is hard in forum mafia) the discussion if it was noise?

[Toto]

Why would he want scum to 'forget' (Which is hard in forum mafia) the discussion if it was noise?

Maybe because he wants to live? Most people don't like dying early in games. Also, it's not hard to forget things depending on the player list.

I'm saying that if he flips PR, the conversation you had with him about claiming was essentially noise.

Look at the way he is addressing the case against him. He is dismissing it as me being 'bad tow' and then attempting to deflect the attention to someone else.

Why does he want to discredit me instead of addressing the case directly? If he thinks my case is wrong why doesn't he try to convince me so if

he thinks I'm town

? What's the town motivation there?
(hint: because he just wants to stay alive, he doesn't care about having a nice cooperative town)

Why didn't he vote me back originally and waited a day to 'decide' I'm bad town? Why does he ask people to 'form their own opinions' instead of fighting back?
(hint: because he is waiting to see how the case goes before he makes a stance. If there had been a case against me for 'rolefishing' he would probably have ended up voting me)

Your lack of paranoia here is starting to worry me. Your last sentence doesn't make sense. Please elaborate.

[Toto]

Lynching me would be bad.

I've softed guys!

271

[Toto]

Nope.

[Toto]

But please. Convince me.

[Toto]

It doesn't matter. His reaction was scummy af.

[Toto]

Pedit: I agree with Toto here. How about you BBT??

[Toto]

Good point here, actually. Wasn't sure you had it in ya.

[Toto]

Soft-claims mean jack-shit.

I'd lynch a soft-claim in a heartbeat.

[Toto]

this isn't actually half bad

[Toto]

Why the delayed response to that?

I thought it was a joke the first time.

What changed your mind? The way you came out with that exclamation looked like you were seeing the comment for the first time, which I didn't think you could have been. It felt false.

See I would buy that if it wasn't for your word choice.

I don't get it.


I don't want to lynch nebula toDay.

VOTE: Sesq

Why are you voting Sesq if you felt my push on him was fake?

[Toto]

So why remark on my 'fake' push on him?

[Toto]

Do you have any concern that you and Hawk have almost all of the same opinions?

Yes. But you can never sure about these things.

[Toto]

Either he town reads me too, or he is scum pocketing me. I can't be certain of which until he flips. My read on him was town, but I think Sesq or Nebula need to die today. Nebula flipping green would make me reconsider hawk.

[Toto]

It's kind of a perspective slip. If you are scum reading nebula why do you not expect town to be jumping on the wagon instead?

If that doesn't clear me from being his hypothetical scumpartner IDK what will.

[Toto]

That would be too obvious for me to do as scum!me. If Sesq flips red and you guys want to lynch me I'm ok with that, as long as you also lynch Nebbie when I flip green. I think THAT could be SvS.

You can lynch me today too if you want if you promise to lynch Neb tomorrow when I flip green.

[Toto]

Also are you guys even suggesting scum like to vote together? I can see this from MB but Hikaro, really?

[Toto]

Question for you regarding soft-claiming … have you never seen VT players trying to draw Nightkills in this manner? I mean it is bad play but it happens. Hell – I can link you to a recent game where a VT claimed Mason to attempt to draw a kill when protecting the Mason was mostly pointless. So it happens. I just wanted to be sure you are not putting all your eggs on Nebula-as-scum based on something that can realistically come from a Town player.

That said I don’t think that his reaction to your putting what you think were soft-claims out in the spotlight (basically calling it dumb) is that of a gambiting VT.

What's the point of this wall of text?

[Toto]

Instead of refuting my arguments, you just say they're bad.

sounds familiar.

[Toto]

1) I was talking about Nebula.
2) Where did I not respond

[Toto]

To say that your tunnel is bad town.

Why would scum!manga say that? LMAO... this guy.

[Toto]

Answer the question. What motivation does scum manga has to say my tunnel is bad town. You think Manga is scum, right?

[Toto]

This is for the future. I am damn sure that a Sesq scumflip means that Toto is scum with him based off of these interactions which start in distancing (which is why everyone has looked at that opportunistic vote like it's weird) and end in agreement but not full agreement of TR. If he's not scum, I've written a little bit more than I needed to.

This is for future reference. If Sesq flips red, and I flip green. Lynch Hiraki. Thanks.

[Toto]

I don't know. Why don't you tell me what was happening with the game state between that post and post 331.

Your wagon has had some resistance. Makes me want to lynch you more.

[Toto]

You ignored the other 3. Does that mean you concede that your argument, while may have some very far off basis, is not appealing to many people?

That is up to other people to decide. You have clearly stated your opinion on the matter.

And your read of Sesq+Toto is purely based on what Sesq have said about me. If he is scum looking to associate himself with me why would you trust that?

You already tried with Hawk. Why do you want to associate me so badly to your scumreads?

[Toto]

If I'm scum with Sesq and scum with Hawk, why are you not voting me? I'm the common denominator.

[Toto]

You and Toto need to learn to read and deduce.

I'm really glad you said this. I was about to give up on my deathtunnel.

[Toto]

Why, you are not pushing your top scum read, Sesq, any more?

[Toto]

Why, you are not pushing your top scum read, Sesq, any more?

[Toto]

EVERYONE

: PENGUIN JUST GAVE UP = SCUMCLAIM

[Toto]

Neb vs Toto

[Toto]

I could see myself ultimately agreeing once I get confirmation from Magna that he is playing seriously.

So now he can say he was not?

[Toto]

I have a feeling you would not, so why are you waiting?

[Toto]

Ok, Hikari. We lynch Sesq today. If he flips red you lynch me tomorrow. If I flip green we lynch you. Deal?

[Toto]

You are waiting for his confirmation to do something when it doesn't make sense for you to wait for anything. I have a feeling you are just posturing.

[Toto]

VOTE: Sesq

[Toto]

Ok, Hikari. We lynch Sesq today. If he flips red you lynch me tomorrow. If I flip green we lynch you. Deal?

You're obsessed with me saying yes so you can then pin me on setting up lynches so let me give you your little bonus prize - sure.

VOTE: Sesq

For future reference. Only lynch Hikari if I flip green.

[Toto]

Someone hammer the fuck out of this day

[Toto]

Ok if you flip green we lynch nebula. If red we lynch me and then hakiro

[Toto]

You can self hammer now.

[Toto]

Don't want to stick to the plan now?

[Toto]

It's going to be a fun dead thread. Think about it.

[Toto]

Also, your definition of sarcasm does not seem to be correct.

[Toto]

And you can't parse it apparently, and ironically.

[Toto]

VOTE: Hikari

[Toto]

vote him

[Toto]

You are voting yourself buddy

[Toto]

He's so distraught that I would ever give up on his precious little deal!

you backpedaled even before we got to lynch Sesq...

[Toto]

I mean, it should be a good deal for you. 2v1 scum? I'd take that any day.

[Toto]

but you did take it... you just change your mind.

[Toto]

Also, it seems you now think I'm town by the way.

[Toto]

You're such a master mafia hunter.

You were scum reading me. What changed?

[Toto]

You're such a master mafia hunter.

You were scum reading me. What changed?

33 posts were added to the game thread. No reads changed though.

Lawl. You can not say 'you are such a mafia hunter' (sarcasm translated to 'you suck as town') without thinking I'm town.

[Toto]

In post 476, Toto wrote:
(sarcasm translated to 'you suck as town')
Please get a new translator.

Sure. Take your time. Creativity can not be summoned at will.

[Toto]

Are you claiming Tepes?

[Toto]

Well you said you had a powerful role

[Toto]

Probably but hes been crumbing associative tells with me for a while. Pretty sure he is being backed up by his buddies (nebula/hariko/music box/hawk) if that is the case. Also if he is mafia that L-1 makes nebula look good which is probably on purpose too.

[Toto]

Hakiro does seem unlikely but could make some sense. Neb v Sesq does not feel like TvT to me.

[Toto]

Hawk is town

[Toto]

Which part of 532 am I incorrect?

[Toto]

Heih nvm

[Toto]

Hiraki, why is Neb town?

[Toto]

What did you like about his posts?

[Toto]

I'm not trolling you. I honestly want to know what made you believe he is town from his posting. Quote examples please.

[Toto]

Yeah let me line the lynches again. Lynch me first. If i flip green lynch nebu. If that flip red powerlynch hikari

[Toto]

MOAR VOTES
VOTE: NEBULA

[Toto]

What is this, Nebbie and Sesq are going to start town reading each other???? PLOT TWIST!

[Toto]

Kain, why are you not voting Nebbie or Sesq?

[Toto]

Great, that helps town a lot. Thanks.

[Toto]

OH PLEASE HIKARI, TELL ME, TELL ME.

[Toto]

WHAT IS A LOLIPOPIAN?

[Toto]

Ok, I'll stop trolling if you answer my question decently. Why are you town reading both Nebula and Nydu?

[Toto]

Does any point in that wall explains why you townread Nebula or Nydu?

[Toto]

This half arsed defense can't come from town

VOTE: hikari

[Toto]

You are just making town!Neb look more suspicious by having someone defend him without proper explanation or you are defending your buddy. Either way, I don't see the town motivation.

When town defends someone they just stand for it and try to sway people. You are not doing that.

[Toto]

It's almost like...I wasn't talking to you.

And it is almost as if I was talking about exactly about your refusal to provide explanations for your town reads so far.

[Toto]

It really looks like they're buddies right now.

Maybe. But maybe he doesn't care who dies between you too and is just being uncooperative to create more willingness to lynch one of you. If we lynch you and you turn green he can easily then retract his town read on Nebula later if needed because he hasn't explained anything. He can say 'well it was gut, but I didn't notice X or Y'.

I still think at least one of Sesq or Nebula is scum. But Hikari is just scum regardless.

[Toto]

@Toto: Good point about potential later retraction, but how could I be scum with Hikari?

He is busing you but also setting me up for a ML the next day.

[Toto]

Magna and Lowerl, vote Hikari before you go on VL/A please.

[Toto]

I like Riley, she is a like cute version of Kain.

[Toto]

Kain is just too strong and too aggressive.

[Toto]

Does anyone else other than me want Hikari to clarify his townreads?

[Toto]

Why not?

[Toto]

FYI - at this point, I don't think Hawk and Toto have NOT been on different wagons.

I don't have proof for that

but that buddy buddy is strong.

I'm happy with my vote

[Toto]

It's just a really fake thing to say.

[Toto]

This seems to be normal Nebula posting, which will become useful later.

I thought this was nebula's first game. Or are you talking about penguin here?

[Toto]

It's almost like I TR people who make good arguments!

This is actually a really bad reason to TR people.

[Toto]

It's just a really fake thing to say.

what does that mean? how'sit fake?

It's filler that doesn't mean anything.

[Toto]

You don't lie about your role if you are town unless you really know what you are doing.

[Toto]

I don't really like a Hiraki wagon I do feel like nebula is scum Sesq seems to just feel like clueless town to me with the early claim and the way he's defending himself

Why are you concerned that he is hard town reading your scumread?

[Toto]

I don't really like a Hiraki wagon I do feel like nebula is scum Sesq seems to just feel like clueless town to me with the early claim and the way he's defending himself

Why are you

NOT

concerned that he is hard town reading your scumread?

Fixed post

[Toto]

Having different opinions is cool and all, but shouldn't it be at least discussed? He refuses to explain his town read on someone who is very likely about to get lynched. Isn't that weird?

[Toto]

I remember him saying more about nebula, although that may have been just repeating the same thing. I'm just getting a bad feeling about this current push on him.

Why are you getting a bad feeling?

[Toto]

And on the specifics of his behavior, while I am willing to go into open discussion about things and be 100% honest, nebula seems to be dodgy and avoidant and declared to stop speaking about Toto and I. The associations between him and Hiraki also seem to be strongly pointing to them being scum together, mainly Hiraki's lack of explaining for his strong townread (and then later refusing to go into it more for "overexplaining", despite the fact he didn't do jack shit.)

I do realize I'm sounding the same horn with this post but I think it's good to explain to people why I sit where I do.

Nebula's decision to stop speaking about Toto and you was actually a town point for him. And he did chip in again when he thought it right to do so.

Why are you getting a bad feeling?

I'm not exactly sure. It was an impression I got from reading the last several pages in one go. I think it was the feeling that people were realising that the Nebula wagon had stalled and were trying to find an alternative. I'll look at that more closely tomorrow; or more probably Monday as I might not have time to concentrate on this on Sunday.

Yeah Im trying to convince people on the nebula wagon to switch to hikaris to save sesq. Good point.

[Toto]

Kain reads. Give me your strong scumhunting insight.

[Toto]

I'm going to have to agree with Riley here. I think someone got an evil role PM!!!

VOTE: KT!!!

[Toto]

VOTE: Hikari for voting babies.

[Toto]

Why wouldnt he want to explain reads as town though?

[Toto]

Also just look at the way neb and hikari are interacting (or not interacting) with their supposed scum read. It doesnt add up to me.

[Toto]

Thats bs neb is never getting NK this game.

[Toto]

I'm not asking for a readlist either. I'm asking for him to explain why he is town reading Nebula so hard, you know, the counter wagon!

[Toto]

Ok, I'm going to assume "making good arguments" is the only reason he is townreading Nebula. Hikari, if you are town and this is wrong please enlighten me.

VOTE: Nebula

[Toto]

Actually, at this point I want Hikari dead no matter how Nebula flips. VOTE: Hikari

[Toto]

How do you know he won't?

Because if he is town he is an easy mislynch. If he is scum he won't die.

[Toto]

Why wouldnt he want to explain reads as town though?

Why would scum not want to do normal town things like explaining reads I don't see why scum would draw attention to themselves like that

The attitude feels forced to me. He is a logical player, and he is being illogical.

[Toto]

Why wouldnt he want to explain reads as town though?

Why would scum not want to do normal town things like explaining reads I don't see why scum would draw attention to themselves like that

That said there are many reasons why Scum hikari could behave like he is doing.

By refusing to explain his reads now he can accomodate the explanations to his needs later.

Nebula could be town and he was white knighting and when forced to explain his read he decided to sheep nebula in the "I dont want to interact with you" attitude instead to pocket him and the people town reading him.

Nebula could be scum and he doesnt want to get further into his reads because he may need to retract them later.

I think hikari is scum that decided to fake an uncooperative attitude instead of explainig his BS reads and got caught in his own show and cant find a way to naturaly get out of it.

[Toto]

hmmm....

How do you know I'm wrong?

VOTE: elena

[Toto]

hmmm....

How do you know I'm wrong?

VOTE: elena

Because your scumread is wrong simple.

How is it wrong? All you said so far is that you think it is wrong.

[Toto]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

This isn't actually answering the question.

What is it with people and dodging questions

That was answering part of your question just because you don't get an answer you're happy with doesn't mean it's a dodge. I think he's wrong on the scumread because I think there town use common sense it's not a hard thing to fill in the blanks

Ok but so far all you say here is that you have a different opinion than me. Why are you 'scared' of my opinion and me pushing it, when niether of us can prove anything.

[Toto]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

But how do you know you are right and not doing the wrong thing?

[Toto]

Ok. Let me try again. It was not a philosophical question. What makes you so confident you are right? Explain it to me slowly.

[Toto]

Actually rereading this and I think Elena's reaction is town.

VOTE: hikari

@elena you may be right about hikari but Im not convinced. His attitude is anti town, just because it draws attention to himself it doesnt mean he is not scum. All I want is dialog and move on but he is holding the discussion back.

[Toto]

Sesq is your top scum read. I really don't understand how you can decide to not interact with her.

[Toto]

Can you please explain your town reads, in a more detailed way, or is that all there is to that? I disagree with both. What do you think about that?

[Toto]

Ok. Let me try again. It was not a philosophical question. What makes you so confident you are right? Explain it to me slowly.

I think I can understand his anger so I'm going to dig deeper to try and understand him better I like his tone and the reaction to your push It's not a mega super lock tr but a tr none the less. We have days to figure this out so no need to rush care to quote or explain again what makes him summy to you?

Its just the fact that he doesnt want to interact or answer simple questions. Im sorry but saying nyd is town because of post Y and not explaining the thought process further because it should be obvious is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in this game and entirely the opposite of what is good for town. It gives the entire scum team here an excuse to not have to respond difficult questions. And like I said before Hikari seems like a good player, like you said, so responding like this seems out of what I expect of his character.

His attitude is anti town at best and we can not let that continue or of anyone else in this game.

[Toto]

Sure but there is also a chance that he said to himself: look, nebula is town and look at the attitude he has. Im going defend him and going to sheep that attitude. So he gets to defend one town and discredit the other.

[Toto]

And the problem scum have is that once they set course is really hard for them to change their gameplan in a way that looks natural. Look how he says the attitude sesq has is childish but he is being childish himself. Also.
Why does he think that the attitude is childish and not scum trying to fight his way out of a lynch?

[Toto]

He is treating me and sesq like VIs but not like scum. And thats my main problem with him.

[Toto]

Yes. 100% different

[Toto]

Also you are not scum reading us, he is.

[Toto]

Also you are not scum reading us, he is.

[Toto]

Would you respond in the same way you did if you thought me and sesq are scum?

[Toto]

Yes. Of course. If you are talking to annoying town you just get frustrated. Like you did. If you are talking to annoying scum you think they are trying to manipulate and kill you. I don't feel any sesne of paranoia from Hikari when he talks to me or sesq. He is just dismissing everything we say as childish/annoying but it does not line up with his point of view of the world.

[Toto]

But not being able to show emotions adecuatelly is a scumtell!

Its one of the hardest thing to do as mafia

[Toto]

Whats your mafia experience?

[Toto]

Anger is the easiest one. But in this case is faking an emotion, he is displaying the wrong emotion.

[Toto]

Do you now understand why everytime I'm asked to answer this stupid TR question that I can't give more than an answer that I've already given?

Nope. All I'm asking is if there is no more to your town read than what you already said, and if there is please explain?

It's not a difficult question to answer directly, specially if the answer is no: I'll make it a set by step process for you:

1) Is there more to Nebula's and Nydu's TR than what you already said (Y/N)?
2) If you answered Y in the first question please answer what else you have to say about those TRs.

Thanks.

[Toto]

Your reasoning is shit, and your attitude is shit. Im asking you to clarify because Im trying to decide if you are town and being a dick; or you are scum.

[Toto]

K, I guess I'll get comfy with my vote.

[Toto]

I could sympathize with those who have issues with Hiraki but based on my experience with him, his play here isn't odd. His attitude and behavior is very similar to a game I played with him recently where he was town. I death tunneled him that game foolishly.

Can you link game

[Toto]

I don't know what you guys are talking about but Innocent Until Proven Guilty does not work in mafia. Specially in this set up where we can not prove anything. So I'm going to agree with the penguin. That said all this chat is pure game theory crap so neither of you are helping your causes.

[Toto]

Strong townreads on

toto

and

music box

.

Why is elena not on this list?

[Toto]

Also Kain switching votes often is just his playstyle.

[Toto]

Looks correct to me.

[Toto]

Sesq is objectively scummy but at the same time I don't like the fact the votes there seem to be parked and there is little resistance for that wagon. Riley's "He is scummy and will hammer if he gets to L-1 but not going to vote there now" is a bit odd though.

Maybe the resistance is coming from the people jumping in other wagons. But I agree with Elena with the sentiment that wagon behavior is weird this game.

[Toto]

I try not to focus on these things though.

Lawl

[Toto]

Hawk, come into my pocket, it's warm and comfy.