Open 675: Pick Your Power X/Y (Game Over!)
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bangthemafia Goon
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Hi Lil Uzi Vert, davesaz, alban, Spade_Ace, Transcend! Great to see you all again!!
Hello others! Hope to have a great play with you all!
Spade, LOLL, how do you manage to get more than 1 votes in the RVS?? Sorry for all the tunneling the last game.
Transcend, why not? Thats what we have got right now. And since a lot of time has passed in pregame, I am sure there must have been some, if not lot of, thoughts put into the draft.
I agree with 2 things-
Scum team will not pick the same numbers
Scum mindset is more likely to pick higher and unusual numbers. But not for the reason that they arent interested in PRs. Having PRs never hurts. I think mainly it will be bacause the higher number you choose, the more likely you will not go into duplicate or triplicate slots. So you actually climb up the ladders. But you can WIFOM this all day long.
For now,
VOTE: alban
Just because there is no Grey and Not_mafia in this game, and you are!-
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bangthemafia Goon
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In post 17, Prince Lyon wrote:VOTE: Spade_Ace
I'm thinking that scum are more likely to pick a higher number like that since they don't feel as personally driven to get PRs.
Either i m getting paranoid or there is a major contradiction there. So what do u think? Mafia want PRs or dont want PRs?In post 83, Prince Lyon wrote:
I mean I'm not dismissing the possibility and I think that there's probably one scum at least in the 1s but I really don't think scum would take doubles of their own.In post 75, Dunnstral wrote:I also think we shouldn't lynch in 1's atm but I'm not so naive to believe there can't be 2 scum picking 1 when 5 people picked 1
I always wanted to do that............ but I'm always TOWN in these setups
With the amount of PRs I feel like this game would get really nasty for scum if they didn't get any powerful roles.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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Dont completely agree. The number players select will also have a direct bearing of how desperately they want PRs.In post 96, Transcend wrote:Mafia want PRs just as much as town do.
Can we please stop speculating the draft and doing what me/Persivul are doing and reading players via the actual progression they've made this game, and not the number they selected for a silly drafting process?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Wrong! With the amount of time mafia has received after alignment PMs, they would have decided on their numbers after consulting each other. Why would 2 members put in same number and decrease their chance of getting PRs?In post 75, Dunnstral wrote:I also think we shouldn't lynch in 1's atm but I'm not so naive to believe there can't be 2 scum picking 1 when 5 people picked 1
I always wanted to do that............ but I'm always TOWN in these setups
Also don't like your capitalized TOWN!-
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bangthemafia Goon
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So why would u not wait for Spade to clarify what he wanted to say. Why would you just change your vote immediately to one of his 2 suspects? I am not making any point, I m trying to see your pointIn post 99, Prince Lyon wrote:
Yes, I did. Because Spade said that and I wanted to see where the vote would go. I don't understand what point you are trying to make.In post 98, bangthemafia wrote:@Prince, also explain your Uzi vote. Interesting u voted for him just after Spade said atleast 1 scum is between Uzi & Whemme.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Ok Mod!In post 96, Transcend wrote:Mafia want PRs just as much as town do.
Can we please stop speculating the draft and doing what me/Persivul are doing and reading players via the actual progression they've made this game, and not the number they selected for a silly drafting process?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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What about Whemme?In post 104, Prince Lyon wrote:Yeah but both by the nature of being informed and wanting distinctly different things than individual townies, there will be notable differences in the drafting process.
I'm not saying to only do draft but it's definitely something that's worth looking at given that nothing is really pinging me as scummy besides maybe Wheme.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Hunhh complete your homework. Go read Open 664 & 671.In post 110, schadd_ wrote:VOTE: bangthemafia
i got a false positive on him reading open 657 but this feels different-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Haha, try however hard I may, you do manage to raise my antennae!! Everyone knows that PRs are distributed by the draft. Why do u hav to lay it down on table?In post 116, Spade_Ace wrote:Hey Schadd, if you are not mafia, then there is a good chance for you to be the target of the night kill tonight. Just putting it out there.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Who said anything about a PL? Did I miss anything? And your post implies u r townreading Trans. Why?In post 134, alban wrote:Prince looks suspicious (page1-2)
Keep transcend in the game. No PL. He is useful in later rounds.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Haha, thanks, but you overestimating my skills. And hell, I get fully stressed out when i m a scum!!In post 144, alban wrote:
How? I have played many games with him, and one thing I have found is I can never read him. I think every statement of Bang's can come from a scum or a town team.In post 110, schadd_ wrote:VOTE: bangthemafia
i got a false positive on him reading open 657 but this feels different
Spade, you agree with Schadd on Bang?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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I hav burnt my fingers enough and quite recently to know nothing is too obvious to be scummy. Yes, scum will be more meticulous and cautious and measured than the reckless townies. But then scum do slip and cover up later with "you really think a scum!me would have done that?" But in general, I do tend to give benefit of doubt to people thinking "is this something thats so impossible for a town to say/do". Having said that I do tend to get fixated on people. Read open 671. So on day 1, I am learning to make more observations, and seek clarifications and make less judgementsIn post 164, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
do you think a seemingly obvious contradiction like that is scummy though?In post 95, bangthemafia wrote:Either i m getting paranoid or there is a major contradiction there. So what do u think? Mafia want PRs or dont want PRs?
bang what do you normally find scummy?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Explain dudes, explain! Why giga, trans town? Why Uzi scum? Enlighten usIn post 165, PenguinPower wrote:giga is town, unless someone can convince me otherwise. Trans is town, unless someone can convince me otherwise. Uzi is scum until he starts showing his town game.
VOTE: Uzi
Explain please!
Explain please!
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bangthemafia Goon
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No hard feelings bro! Great you are here!!In post 170, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Hi Bang! Sorry about 664-
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bangthemafia Goon
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No, i dony at all think that analyzing draft numbers is pointless.In post 195, Spade_Ace wrote:Bang do you think scum would take the risk of choosing the same draft number? Is it possible to definitely say scum won't choose the same number?
And I would never as scum go for same draft number. Period. Simply because PRs are always good for scum. And by choosing same numbers, scum is doing a suicide on PR front. Scumteam will choose different and odd numbers to avoid duplication. But these are just my thoughts. This is my first PYP game so i dont know if in reality my theory is true-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Great. So we hav another Kaintepes = Grey type of player! Bless us.In post 204, Killthestory wrote:shut up i dont need to explain anything-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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Page 10-12- Things that caught my eye-
Buddying up of Kill and Trans
Daves appearing only to post I have read everything.
Transcend’s too many vote shiftings
Talk about Prince and Titus being alts?
Dont like this buddying. Assuming right now it is in a jokular way.In post 252, Killthestory wrote:im going to trust you on this and never lynch you the rest of the game. if im close to lynching you, just quote this post and i probably wont lynch you.
probably.
This is throwing shade for a NAI reason
In post 297, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
agreed that davesaz's one post was sketchy. will like to see that slot contribute. same goes for titus
also i can confirm that prince lyon is titusIn post 298, Prince Lyon wrote:I guess I should have like altered my speaking or read posting patterns or something because this is clearly not working.
Dont get this at all. Alts are basically alternative accounts, right? So if Prince and Titus are alts, doesnt that already clear them? Isnt it like masons?In post 299, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:for a bit i thought you were someone else tbh
it's more what you know about me that gave it away-
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bangthemafia Goon
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LOLLLL! Sorry. My bad! Understood now. That you were trying to fake Titus' playstyle. Lot of these terminologies are knew and I have to keep going back to Wiki.In post 301, Prince Lyon wrote:I'm not worried about getting outed ftr because I've said things that would confirm myself to about 2/3 of the game and the identity that I was pretending to be just replaced in.
I was trying to imitate the way that Titus speaks to lay her as a false trail but overall this is more just trying to play without the baggage or the constructed personality of my main.
I suspect that winrate wise I will perform worse as both alignments but I feel like playing the way that I usually do just isn't working anymore.
Like the vanity wagon below. Had to check it on Wiki. One vote wagons, to me, dont mean anything. It could be a townie, not convinced enough to put his vote anywhere. Like a game we just completed. On Day 1, there were 2 wagons- 11 players equally divided in 5 + 5 on each of the 2 wagons. A lone guy was voting for a 3rd player. We lynched scum D1 itself. Day 2 started with everyone going for that lone guy. He turned out to be a townie! Trans was the mod!
In post 302, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
oh okIn post 301, Prince Lyon wrote:I'm not worried about getting outed ftr because I've said things that would confirm myself to about 2/3 of the game and the identity that I was pretending to be just replaced in.
I was trying to imitate the way that Titus speaks to lay her as a false trail but overall this is more just trying to play without the baggage or the constructed personality of my main.
I suspect that winrate wise I will perform worse as both alignments but I feel like playing the way that I usually do just isn't working anymore.
also i missed titus's post from earlier but i don't understand how vanity wagons springing up suggests alban town? to me that just implies that either town doesn't trust each other to wagon, we're still feeling things out, or scum are trying to push a cw and are struggling to find one that works?In post 303, Prince Lyon wrote:I would actually get the opposite interpretation in that it would likely be scum attempting to push counterwagons.
VOTE: Titus
Do you understand why I think that you and Alban are highly likely to be scumbuddies here?In post 313, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
but how does that translate to alban town?In post 311, Titus wrote:The vanity wagons, to me, suggest that mostly town are wagoning town alban, if not completely town. It could be scum trying to save Alban (I lack the data to make a firmer conclusion), but that's what my VCA mini suggestions tell me.
Note to self: Go through Prince's ISO.
i would think that means that alban could be late-game lynchbait town (that phrase doesn't make sense but i think you get my point) or scum if it's a town motivated wagon from that - meaning my conclusion from the get-go would be "i need more data"
so i don't get the thought process here-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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Seriously. You guys are so high on Adrenaline.In post 471, Prince Lyon wrote:I would like to point out that BTM tried to find a ridiculous reason to clear Titus and also discredited the push on Alban so if you think he's scum you should want to help me pressure the Titus/Alban pair.
I did NOT know what or how "Alt" functions before posting, ok? I thought its somewhat like masons. I also didnt know the vote count.
Also, I know Alban and his playstyle. Have to read everything people posted before making mind, right? I am telling you I was planning to do ISO on every player and then post my reads. Its just that I saw Giga post saying he knows Prince is Titus. What do I make of that?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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@Prince, please explain this for lesser mortals like me! What has a scum watcher flip got to do with Spade?In post 348, Prince Lyon wrote:Idk. I don't think it's something that we deal with right now. If a scum watcher flips though we pretty much autolynch Spade.
I know Spade's style too. This is just his playstyle. Though those posts about Schadd being Nighkill target were unnecessary, I dont think Scum!Spade is naive enough to suddenly come into limelight by making these posts out of blue.In post 349, Spade_Ace wrote:I have no idea what you guys are rambling about. Stop overanalyzing my posts.
I thought it would bring a wifom situation essentially. Me saying protective powers please protect Schadd, means they can choose to protect or not. So mafia would have to take a risk in trying to night kill Schadd.
Sheeesh!!!
Diasgree. A pissed off Town!Spade can talk very curtly. Nothing scummy about itIn post 358, davesaz wrote:
The others are less cautious and follow the more likely path of starting with the lurker might be scum (though that's a site meta that needs some serious fixing imo). Though Persivul's is more the skeptic path, it's still a "this might be scum" kind of reaction which is weakly townie. You on the other hand seem to have a preconception that I'm town, which only scum should have.In post 357, Spade_Ace wrote: So you find the above two reactions as town but the below one as scum? Care to explain it further?
Who or what sayings am I going along with? Are you concerned about something here?Seems like you are just going along with what everyone is saying.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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This was a BAD vote and without any reasoning. Thats BAD.
In post 381, davesaz wrote:I don't necessarily disagree, but care to explain why?
That was a quick wagon!In post 382, WhemePlay wrote:VOTE: Spade
Sheeping Titus. Don't hink i have ever done that before.
I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow. Setting up WINFOM shit.
I can see people jumping on Spade for those 2 posts. But I dont think that was scummy. Like, yes, Spade could still be a scum, and he is quite good at it. But I am not ready to suspect him for those 2 posts right now.In post 383, Spade_Ace wrote:In post 233, WhemePlay wrote: That sounds like a setup to explain why they are still alive.
Why do you say that? Do you feel Schadd is scum??In post 382, WhemePlay wrote: I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow.
That was quite a quick change of mind!
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bangthemafia Goon
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At this point, Spade wagon had started dying with 4 votes on it, and Titus wagon had started building it.In post 405, davesaz wrote:Sorting Uzi will be unnecessary, except as it relates to Titus.
I think Titus is very unusual this game. Upbeat entrance "let's rock this" or something like that, and then she fell flat. Which is kinda what Uzi did too.
That is informative, but unfortunately it may not be AI.
Just few posts back, Daves had agreed with Titus about Titus's Spade vote with "Kinda agree, but give your reason". Still Daves himself was not voting anyone. Now, that the Titus wagon started building up, this post (405) looks an attempt to fence-sit. Saying "yeah, this is unusual, but may not be AI". Like a background work to go whichever way the balance tilts.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Agree and like this thought process.In post 408, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:VOTE: Titus
not really liking the refusal to explain why alban's town when your answers haven't been clear
spade vote also seals my tr of that slot
^that's L-2 if my count is correct
Not so confident as Giga, but for this same post, Whemme leans townier to me.In post 409, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
also i want to say this is townIn post 382, WhemePlay wrote:VOTE: Spade
Sheeping Titus. Don't hink i have ever done that before.
I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow. Setting up WINFOM shit.
but now that i am 99.9% sure that lyon is who i think he is and he scumreads it i really want to know why he didn't like this slot earlier
I know it sounds weird, but I agree with alban too. I feel alban is not unusual in any way in this game. I have had a very bad experience with scum!alban my last game. And still I maintain, this is alban's usual playstyle. His frustration here comes from a town mindset, is what I feel.In post 412, alban wrote:
According to you, i am scum. Why? Coz I posted very suspicious content. How long was the content? All of 3 lines. Have you posted scummy posts yourself? Check. Have others done that this game? Check.In post 408, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:VOTE: Titus
not really liking the refusal to explain why alban's town when your answers haven't been clear
spade vote also seals my tr of that slot
^that's L-2 if my count is correct
Who else is scummy? Titus and their slot must be scum. Why? Coz they think i am town.
Point no. 3. Spade must be town. Why? Coz Titus thinks Spade is scummy. Titus, who is scummy because they dont think i am scum, finds spade scummy, hence spade must be town.
As if the scums can't fake any of these things just for your convenience.
You are one of the most confidently naive players i have seen in my 1 year on the site.
Either that, or all this bad play style us a facade.
This is bussing!In post 421, davesaz wrote:VOTE: Titus
So unlike town!Titus I've seen many times. The one time I've seen Titus avoid she was scum and I called it.
L-2-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Cant shake this feeling that this is town vs townIn post 442, alban wrote:
This seems more like the post hoc analysis rooted in being tunneled. Every single point in your 'essay' points to a presumptuous and naive rhetoric. This is still nai. Maybe a lil bit scummy. Right now i am not sure if you are a tunneled and patronising townie or aggressive scum pushing a less active slot.In post 425, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
first point, length of content has nothing to do with scumminess? forced reads are forced reads. you could write essays and i could have a nullread on you, you could make 1 post all game and i can have you as my strongest town/scumread. so you completely miss the mark on why i even scumread you but let's keep goingIn post 412, alban wrote:According to you, i am scum. Why? Coz I posted very suspicious content. How long was the content? All of 3 lines. Have you posted scummy posts yourself? Check. Have others done that this game? Check.
Who else is scummy? Titus and their slot must be scum. Why? Coz they think i am town.
Point no. 3. Spade must be town. Why? Coz Titus thinks Spade is scummy. Titus, who is scummy because they dont think i am scum, finds spade scummy, hence spade must be town.
As if the scums can't fake any of these things just for your convenience.
You are one of the most confidently naive players i have seen in my 1 year on the site.
Either that, or all this bad play style us a facade.
i don't think titus is scummy for thinking you're town. i think titus is scummy for not engaging with me on the specifics behind that read when the reasons they've given can make the read go either way. you could be town and titus scum, your alignment has nothing to do with titus's. yes, i think you're both scummy but it's not associative at all. your logic here seems to suggest it is
spade is town because i didn't like the way titus voted for them. it didn't look like a bus to me. that read is a little associative, but there's nothing naive in thinking that a wagon is on town lynchbait because people are overplaying how scummy he is and a scummier slot is jumping on him.
so i have no idea what you're trying to insinuate here-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Completed reading everything. And cant stop laughing!!! Understand why everyone jumped on me!In post 458, Transcend wrote:oh shoot bang might be mafia ;-;
The thing is that I keep feeling getting influenced my last played game. Of course I can be wrong, but I tend to keep thinking the frustrations usually arise from town mindset. Whether that applies to Giga-Alban interaction or not, I am not confident. Nevertheless, I just hope it is not a scum-scum charade. Right now, I will ISO each player and then make up my mind.
By the way, my reads till now-
Strong town- Transcend, Prince Lyon, GigabyteTroubadour
Town lean- Alban, Spade_Ace
Null- Dunnstral, schadd_, PenguinPower, WhemePlay
Scum lean- davesaz, Killthestory, Persivul, Titus
VOTE: Davesaz
But I will shift to Titus if that wagon builds.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Because thats how he is. He gets tunnelled on someone quite easily, engages in one on one, and also gets frustrated easily.In post 486, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:gonna see if i want to respond to anything more in-depth later but
bang why does alban's frustration ping you as town?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Sorry. And sure!
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bangthemafia Goon
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What's this? Some cryptic breadcrumbing??
PEDIT: Giga, scum!alban is usually very measured, less fixated, and more cautious. I feel this is his town play. But sometimes i get biased by my last game. Like sometimes I start with suspecting the player who was scum in my last game, as the game progresses I tell myself that this is the shittiest logic, so i tend to give them too much of towncred. So maybe I need others' opinions. Spade, Daves, Trans all hav played with him. Trans even had the birds eye view as mod.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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In post 494, Persivul wrote:UNVOTE:
In this setup, first seed (Titus) should be here obvtowning herself. Disappointing that she isn't. That said, I'm not lynching first seed on D1. Gotta give her the opportunity for a night action and see what happwens.
Generally I don't read into replace outs, but this one was weird. Personally I play this setup because the draft mechanism is unique. Someone winning first seed then saying they can't get into the game is bizarre.
@Perci, if the first post was your reason for unvoting titus, and you immediately got a comment from Giga, which seemingly convinced you, why didnt you put your vote back? I would think voting back would be more natural reaction here!In post 496, Persivul wrote:
I shouldn't play sick. Was looking at the player list, not the draft...In post 495, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:by first seed do you mean the top portion of the draft
because schadd_ is technically the first seed...?
That makes the replace out less weird.-
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Lets do it, then.In post 489, WhemePlay wrote:We are townier to BTM, plus they will shift to Titus if the wagon builds!!!
VOTE: Titus
L-2?
What will happen next?
VOTE: Titus-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Nothing much in last 6-7 pages. Somehow I still feel alban is town. I would love someone to walk me through his scummy points. Spade, your reason of scumreading alban because he is not scumreading you sucks totally. Is there anything else?
I am posting here whatever I could find in last 6-7 pages reading post by post. Have also done some ISO's and post them separately.
I am fine lynching someone from my scummiest reads- Titus > Davesaz > Whemmeplay > Killthestory = Persivul = Spade.
@Titus. please explain this.In post 532, Titus wrote:My VCA mini too early theory says you're scum. The fear response is noted.
Hows this? And who arethe other 2 you scumread?In post 539, Titus wrote:Looking at draft numbers and VCs, bang is likely the third.
@Spade, why do you expect a claim? Do you feel Titus has a PR? I am not sure but I think you agreed to someone's theory of Uzi replacing out due to vanilla frustration. Also, how does a PR claim decide alignment? If mafia were higher up in list, they would also get PRs, right?In post 548, Spade_Ace wrote: Titus is at L-1. Please claim.
Didnt understand this.In post 555, WhemePlay wrote:The on my town role she can claim is VT. How would any other claim sway you?
Thats important information. Thank you. But can someone else who has played with Titus earlier confirm / refute this?In post 626, davesaz wrote:
Not directed at me, but I've seen her misuse VCA as scum more often than she uses it at all as town.In post 596, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:lyon when titus replaces into scum slots does she still do vca like she does when replacing into a town slot?
idk the way shes doing it here still feels off to me and i cant rly put into words why
I am frustrated. Why cant you guys give reasons for your reads? I thought thats a common way of letting the town assess your thought process and whether they agree to it or find faults with your thought process.In post 649, Dunnstral wrote:wait, this is te game with bangthemafia? yeah let's lynch him,
davesaz always a viable option
penguinpower always a viable option
You are just useless. No point even engaging with you. You haven’t done anything towny for me. Just sending your one liners, commenting on others’ posts, being mildly aggressive, jumping your votes all over, without giving any solid reasons, you haven’t even given your complete list of reads.
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bangthemafia Goon
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This was for Titus voting for Spade. So he agrees with Titus about Spade. But doesnt vote for Spade.In post 381, davesaz wrote:I don't necessarily disagree, but care to explain why?
Throws shade on Titus, but keeps options open by saying its NAI. Timing of this post is bad. It is at the time when Spade wagon started dying and Titus wagon started picking up. More like basework for future voteparking. If Davesaz flips scum, I would suspect Spade as his scumbuddy.In post 405, davesaz wrote:Sorting Uzi will be unnecessary, except as it relates to Titus.
I think Titus is very unusual this game. Upbeat entrance "let's rock this" or something like that, and then she fell flat. Which is kinda what Uzi did too.
That is informative, but unfortunately it may not be AI.
In post 421, davesaz wrote:VOTE: Titus
So unlike town!Titus I've seen many times. The one time I've seen Titus avoid she was scum and I called it.
L-2
Need confirmation from others.In post 626, davesaz wrote:
Not directed at me, but I've seen her misuse VCA as scum more often than she uses it at all as town.In post 596, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:lyon when titus replaces into scum slots does she still do vca like she does when replacing into a town slot?
idk the way shes doing it here still feels off to me and i cant rly put into words why
Plus that Davesaz is the scummiest guy in the 1's. So if there is atleast 1 scum in 1’s, it is Davesaz in most probability.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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In post 494, Persivul wrote:UNVOTE:
In this setup, first seed (Titus) should be here obvtowning herself. Disappointing that she isn't. That said, I'm not lynching first seed on D1. Gotta give her the opportunity for a night action and see what happwens.
Generally I don't read into replace outs, but this one was weird. Personally I play this setup because the draft mechanism is unique. Someone winning first seed then saying they can't get into the game is bizarre.In post 496, Persivul wrote:
I shouldn't play sick. Was looking at the player list, not the draft...In post 495, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:by first seed do you mean the top portion of the draft
because schadd_ is technically the first seed...?
That makes the replace out less weird.
I did scumread Persi at this point, first due to quick voteshifting frm Spade to Titus but without giving any reads, then unvoting Titus for wrong reasons and going back to Spade. With Spade townreading him, it could have been a bus from scum!Persi. Plus the fact that final vote for "asking a bad question" meant, he could anytime unvote too without evoking much suspicion. So again, if Spade flips scum, I am gonna look at Persi and vice versa.In post 563, Persivul wrote:
How can you ask such a bad question?In post 561, Spade_Ace wrote: How does that make him scum??
VOTE: Spade
The only problem is that following 2 posts i.e. 557 and 579 look quite townie and genuine scumhunting and attemots to futher the game. So am putting Persi in a "To be looked at later" list-
In post 557, Persivul wrote:
In a typical setup it's reasonable for PRs to want to lay somewhat low, as they don't want to be so obvtown that they take the NK. In this setup, the top slot (you) is definitely a PR, and the next couple probably are. If you're town, there's already a target on your back, so no need to lay low. So, obvtowning yourself is helpful. IIRC in one of these we lynched the cop (top slot) on D2 because she thought that, as cop, she shouldn't draw attention to herself, which in fact did draw bad attention to her.In post 553, schadd_ wrote:why should we be obvtowning ourselves?In post 579, Persivul wrote:
So devote some of that time to this game obviously.In post 573, PenguinPower wrote:I do. So what?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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So he suspects "someone" who said that (Spade in his 116 and 118)In post 233, WhemePlay wrote:I can't find who said it but
Someone posted about schadd being a target tonight but pr protect them.
That sounds like a setup to explain why they are still alive.
Why would they say that or try to lead protectives?
Now those posts are "useless"In post 345, WhemePlay wrote:
I don't think I'm seeing what you see. But I see those posts as useless. Makes no sense to post them IMO.In post 332, schadd_ wrote:there's a certain thing i'm thinking about 116 & 118, and i'm wondering if anyone else sees it
In post 346, WhemePlay wrote:I also don't see enough to vote Spade
Again suspecting Spade just on those 2 posts, suspecting enough to vote. After that unvoting, voting Titus, again going back to Spade-In post 382, WhemePlay wrote:VOTE: Spade
Sheeping Titus. Don't hink i have ever done that before.
I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow. Setting up WINFOM shit.
Just to bend completely backwards, this could be an undecided townie in like a rare world, but in all other worlds, this is 1 obvscum.In post 574, WhemePlay wrote:In post 564, Spade_Ace wrote:
The only town role she can claim is VT, if she is a scum. If she claims any other town role, would you not be swayed??In post 555, WhemePlay wrote:The on my town role she can claim is VT. How would any other claim sway you?
VOTE: spade-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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Noted. Hope to see more thoughts from you.In post 674, Persivul wrote:
I'm having difficulty getting into this game because: as noted I was sick (starting to improve now); giga's constant posting.In post 671, bangthemafia wrote:The only problem is that following 2 posts i.e. 557 and 579 look quite townie and genuine scumhunting and attemots to futher the game. So am putting Persi in a "To be looked at later" list-Dave & Titus I agree. Why Giga?
Not only that, but also genuinely scumhunting unlike many other Shitposters. Wow, I like that word!In post 676, Persivul wrote:Giga seems too at ease to be scum.
Off topic: Giga reminds me of Minideathstar, one of the best analytic players I hav seen on this website. @Transcend you started off with us in 657 on day 1 before getting replaced out, right?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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And Persivul feels you become a student more when yiu are scum.In post 686, Titus wrote: I actually explain in those 6-7 "useless" pages.
I am a very strong student of VCA.
Alban is probably town driven by town. Scum have zero interest in drawing attention to themselves by countering alban, who is town. They can always come back to Alban if they cannot discredit a scum wagon. Then, they blame town if Alban is lynched.
I am at Persivul Shade Bang. Shade being the mist confident.
Great, you caught us! Coincidentally I m right now town leaning Persi & Spade is null to townlean. Your throwing shade in them kinda clears them for me.
By the way, how about Titus- Davesaz-Whemme?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Sorry again. Have been awefully busy in real life. Everytime I come to this game, its 10-12 pages to read! I read very hurriedly from 27 till page 42. So just posting few thoughts right now, will read more soon and comment page by page
1. @Spade, thanks for pointing out my busy schedule to others. But your VT claim was just bad. We have discussed this so many times. It may not affect you directly, but kind of brings town PRs out in open for the PR-hunting scum by process of elimination.
2. @KTS, I am in India, so my time is never gonna match with the free time of most of you. If you have any questions for me, please post whenever you are online. I can reply whenever I have time. My case on you was not a strong scumread. But I just fail to understand why the town is just blindly townreading one line posters. I have seen enough to know its NAI and scum can very well take advantage of this "activity is NAI, so lurkers are not scum" mentality. In my last game, where many of the players were there and Trans was the mod, we lost the game to a very very inactive and almost lurking werewolves team!
3. I also fail to understand why people are townreading top seeders in the draft. There were so many posts on that speculation. Alignment is decided before distribution of power roles. So a top seeder has as much chance of being scum as town. Also, why VT is the only conftown claim? If you guys meant that player will not have any night action, a vanilla mafia goon can and will claim VT only. So spade's claim, then people clearing everyone above Spade was all bullshit IMO. I thought a lot about the draft and for me, the only way the draft helps is after a few flips, because I firmly believe the scumteam will just not take the chance of bidding for the same number. That would be like deliberately throwing away PRs. For a scum, any and every PR would be a value addition.
4. I am very wary of Persivul wagon the way it just built up without any explanation. I had ISOed him till page 27 and posted my thoughts as post 671 , and then he responded that he was sick etc. All that sounded quite genuine to me. I ISOd his posts after my #671 because he is the current lynchbait. Will post that ISO as a separate post, as I don't know how to use many of the MS features on my phone. But it should suffice to say that his later altercation with Prince & Schadd looked genuine too.
5. With the above post I had also posted Whemmeplay's ISO till page 27 in post 672 . Lot of pages have passed after that, but I found a glaring inconsistency in their early posts. Either I am paranoid or town is too sure of themselves or scum just didnot let that wagon build.
With the genuinity with which Titus has engaged in last few pages, I am less and less sure about him being a scum (will explain later with Persi's ISO). Right now, I am fine voting for Daves or Whemmeplay.
Pedit: Persi, you already claimed??? WTF-
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bangthemafia Goon
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I have ISOed Persi and will post it. But at this point, I feel quite sure he is a town. So I buy his VT claim and his further explanation about Prince and top 4. There is sure a scum in top 3 or 4. Rolecop is something that scum would bid for. Town would hav bid for the regular cop.
VOTE: Whemmeplay-
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bangthemafia Goon
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No. Wait. The town amongst the 3 above u will get exposed that way. Scum in them knows who the town is. But scum will mostly not know what PR they hav. U will likely expose that. But this is my opinion. I m playing PYP for the first time. Take other experts' opinion.In post 1074, Persivul wrote:
Probably, but wait awhile and see if there's protest.In post 1071, Spade_Ace wrote:Should I reveal what PR I missed out on??-
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bangthemafia Goon
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@Prince, whats wrong with 570? Lurkers are scum or not, or scum wpuld lurk or not is always a wifom. I can see both the points. But why would u giv a free pass to lurkers? And more importantly, if someone disagrees with ur reasoning, why is that a scumtell for u. I think the more rigid/tunnelled/closed/monosyllablic townies become, the more we harm town.
@Spade, I really dont know. Till now I hav not been able to see anything really hard-scummy there. I know he is extremely busy, travelling to cities and has joined new job. But apart from the activity, which is really NAI, I didmt see anything unusual. As I said few tens of pages back, I start almost every game scumreading my last game's scum. Then i tell myself not to get tunnelled and overdo that. So i think right now, unless i see something really scummy or unless there are some associative tells after few flips, i m not for alban lynch so early.
By the way, what do u feel about my 672 post and Whemmeplay?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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In post 705, Persivul wrote:
Why did you want Titus to vote with you when you just voted her, and believe that "everything that you've done today points to you being scum"?In post 678, Prince Lyon wrote:Alright it doesn't feel like Alban is happening today and I'm not having another game where I caught Titus scum and didn't lynch her because of personal reasons.
I would rather lynch Alban if we can get a wagon going there but
VOTE: Titus
I really need something from you if you're town here because everything that you've done today points to you being scum and even if you're town you're likely wrong about Spade_Ace.
I want to point out that you disagreed with me about how to correctly gauge your reads but I correctly ignored you in 200 and also correctly pointed out in the open that your Grey read was likely to be correct.
So if you're town here you are wrong here >90% of the time and need to do something else.Come vote up Alban with me?In post 707, Persivul wrote:
How so?In post 704, schadd_ wrote:
this question is how confirmation bias happensIn post 703, Persivul wrote:Why do you keep trying to work with someone you scum read?
You don't find it odd at all that he strongly scum reads and votes a person, yet in the same post asks that person to vote along with them against a third? It's bizarre behavior.
I agree with Persi's point here. Prince's post was quite contradictory there. But more than agreeing with it, I like how Persi noticed that and brought on table and persisted woth his questioning. Seemed genuine scum hunting.In post 721, Persivul wrote:
I'm more concerned about you simultaneously claiming to scum-read Titus while also trying to buddy up to her.In post 718, Prince Lyon wrote:Do you think that I'm scum for voting you Persivul?
In post 722, Persivul wrote:
Should I be? Why are you so important?In post 720, schadd_ wrote:i mean, you're really just proving my point. you're not making any effort to convince me that the interaction between lyon and titus is fishy,
These all look Town vs town interactions. Following are some more posts that I felt were fully town-motivated-In post 725, Persivul wrote:
No - I'm not trying to convince ANYONE at this point. I don't have strong enough reads. I rarely do before a few flips.In post 723, schadd_ wrote:i'm an eleventh of the town, and an eighth of a lynch. do you only want to convince important people?
In post 792, Persivul wrote:
That sounds like you're saying you were laying a trap.In post 759, Prince Lyon wrote:Yeah so what I was thinking was that like my behaviour around Titus slot is the kind of thing that scum could push on if they needed to because it does directly involve me going against my reads
but it's the kind of thing that doesn't really make sense as scum and that I wouldn't expect anyone to scumread, particularly if they know who I am.In post 796, Persivul wrote:
Not Titus - me, or anyone who would question why he would scum read and vote someone, then in the same fucking post plead with the person voted to vote together on a third person. It's completely stupid play. About the only thing dumber than that is scum reading someone for questioning it. Traps are bad, but I can at least respect the attempt. If it wasn't a trap, he's just a fucking idiot. You push your scum reads, you don't hold hands and sing kumbayah with them.In post 789, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:i don't think he was trying to trap titus though i don't really get that?In post 918, Persivul wrote:
Because it's high in the draft. The first couple of people are highly likely to be PRs. It's the middle people, like spade and me, that scum want to figure out. They're not really concerned about the mislynch yet - still lots of time for that.In post 905, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:alban is my top choice but that wagon doesnt seem to get momentum any moreIn post 1020, Persivul wrote:In post 919, Dunnstral wrote:
noPersivul wrote:
Because it's high in the draft. The first couple of people are highly likely to be PRs.In post 905, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:alban is my top choice but that wagon doesnt seem to get momentum any moreIt's the middle people, like spade and me, that scum want to figure out.They're not really concerned about the mislynch yet - still lots of time for that.
Who is most scumread amongst 4 people above you?In post 1021, Persivul wrote:At least one scum in {schadd, Titus}
Strange vote, Schadd.In post 1053, Persivul wrote:In post 992, Persivul wrote:
Yeah, why give the top seed a night to produce?In post 986, Prince Lyon wrote:Actually I asked that but I don't really feel enthusiastic about wagoning Dunnstral right now. I'll take that as a gut read and follow it.
VOTE: Schadd
VOTE: Prince Lyon^ Scum vote.
It's D1, you're town, you've been taking some pressure and just got voted again. Then someone sticks up for you. That gives you a feeling of relief. Yeah, you know buddying is a possibility, but you don't turn on the person in your corner that quickly.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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@Prince, you are just moving in more and more shittier murk. You were quite a strong townread for me. But i can't understand these voteshifts. Almost looks like jumping on whoever posts. But its still fine. Coz I usually tend to keep "tunnelled townie" possibility till someone compells me to think otherwise. So u want to give reasons for ur vote?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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bangthemafia Goon
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This is idiotic. Can someone explain what's scummy about alban, coz I just cant seem to see it. Spade, Giga what were your cases on him? Sorry but can you repost?
Also why not Wemmeplay? If Persi and Spade are telling truth, which I feel they are, we hav a rolecop/UB in the top 3 which I dont feel is something for which a town that high in draft would bid for. Whemme is the scummiest of them. Why are we not lynching that shit of a hydra?-
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bangthemafia Goon
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What WK u r talking about, Trans/Dunn?
A flash wagon builds up on alban so close to deadline. I hav been very clearly saying i don't find him scummy just as i dont find some of u scummy. Of course I can never be 100% sure. Thats why I asked people on that wagon to explain their case why Alban is so scummy. But I think thats too much to ask from this town.
On top, u vote me for differing opinions!? So townreading ur scum reads or scum reading ur townreads is bad, is it?
Dont focus on the wrong guy (now I m talking only of myself) so close to deadline. It will create nothing but confusion and waste precious time in rebuilding another wagon.
For the last time, vote whemmeplay. He is the bloody scum. I m also open to Daves or maybe Titus wagon-
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bangthemafia
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bangthemafia Goon
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In post 1398, WhemePlay wrote:Stressing me out. Walking away.LoL. Come back and atleast be clearer and more expressive in your claim.
Haha. ROFLIn post 1400, Killthestory wrote:how can someone role fish when you've already claimed
dude i don't understand where you came from but you need to pull a spongebob and burn all the files in your brain about mafia and learn fresh
Exactly my feeling. Whemme, you had pretty much time. Without even coming anywhere near to claim, you could at least respond when some of us pointed out your inconsistencies. Like you never responded to my 672.In post 1401, PenguinPower wrote:
You do realize that you had the ability to prevent it from getting to this point had you answeredIn post 1397, WhemePlay wrote:Role fish some more huhanyquestions that had been asked of you...right? This wasn't role fishing...7 players ran you up because of your unwillingness to participate with town. There are less than 7 scum.
I don't feel like unvoting right now.
I would prefer you anytime.In post 1413, Titus wrote:Are we done spamming now? Can we lynch Spade ace?
VOTE: Titus-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Trans, whats the fuck with you. You are ready to jump on everyone that gets wagoned? Remember that rainbow post of yours? What has happened after that to make you vote me? Scum is just fucking trying to get people to claim before night 1, it looks like.
Whenever wagon built on me, I have been very clearly telling that I m not your guy. Dont waste your time on me etcetc. If town is so careless and bloodthirsty, just stop voting when I m at L-2 and wait for me to online.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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Dude you just suck, did anyone tell you that? Go read the games Spade posted.In post 1526, momo wrote:In post 468, bangthemafia wrote:Trans, what are you? Pouncing on anyone that comes your way?
My bad again. Usually I like to keep commenting as I catch up. But I thought this time will read everything, ISO everyone and then post my reads. But got thrilled at this "Alt" thing and thought I must post!In post 470, bangthemafia wrote:Guys, seriously! Just let me catch up and post. You are focussing at the wrong place
Pedit: Dunn, bad vote.In post 473, bangthemafia wrote:
Seriously. You guys are so high on Adrenaline.In post 471, Prince Lyon wrote:I would like to point out that BTM tried to find a ridiculous reason to clear Titus and also discredited the push on Alban so if you think he's scum you should want to help me pressure the Titus/Alban pair.
I did NOT know what or how "Alt" functions before posting, ok? I thought its somewhat like masons. I also didnt know the vote count.
Also, I know Alban and his playstyle. Have to read everything people posted before making mind, right? I am telling you I was planning to do ISO on every player and then post my reads. Its just that I saw Giga post saying he knows Prince is Titus. What do I make of that?In post 475, bangthemafia wrote:
@Prince, please explain this for lesser mortals like me! What has a scum watcher flip got to do with Spade?In post 348, Prince Lyon wrote:Idk. I don't think it's something that we deal with right now. If a scum watcher flips though we pretty much autolynch Spade.
I know Spade's style too. This is just his playstyle. Though those posts about Schadd being Nighkill target were unnecessary, I dont think Scum!Spade is naive enough to suddenly come into limelight by making these posts out of blue.In post 349, Spade_Ace wrote:I have no idea what you guys are rambling about. Stop overanalyzing my posts.
I thought it would bring a wifom situation essentially. Me saying protective powers please protect Schadd, means they can choose to protect or not. So mafia would have to take a risk in trying to night kill Schadd.
Sheeesh!!!
Diasgree. A pissed off Town!Spade can talk very curtly. Nothing scummy about itIn post 358, davesaz wrote:
The others are less cautious and follow the more likely path of starting with the lurker might be scum (though that's a site meta that needs some serious fixing imo). Though Persivul's is more the skeptic path, it's still a "this might be scum" kind of reaction which is weakly townie. You on the other hand seem to have a preconception that I'm town, which only scum should have.In post 357, Spade_Ace wrote: So you find the above two reactions as town but the below one as scum? Care to explain it further?
Who or what sayings am I going along with? Are you concerned about something here?Seems like you are just going along with what everyone is saying.In post 477, bangthemafia wrote:This was a BAD vote and without any reasoning. Thats BAD.
In post 381, davesaz wrote:I don't necessarily disagree, but care to explain why?
That was a quick wagon!In post 382, WhemePlay wrote:VOTE: Spade
Sheeping Titus. Don't hink i have ever done that before.
I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow. Setting up WINFOM shit.
I can see people jumping on Spade for those 2 posts. But I dont think that was scummy. Like, yes, Spade could still be a scum, and he is quite good at it. But I am not ready to suspect him for those 2 posts right now.In post 383, Spade_Ace wrote:In post 233, WhemePlay wrote: That sounds like a setup to explain why they are still alive.
Why do you say that? Do you feel Schadd is scum??In post 382, WhemePlay wrote: I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow.
That was quite a quick change of mind!
In post 485, bangthemafia wrote:
Completed reading everything. And cant stop laughing!!! Understand why everyone jumped on me!In post 458, Transcend wrote:oh shoot bang might be mafia ;-;
The thing is that I keep feeling getting influenced my last played game. Of course I can be wrong, but I tend to keep thinking the frustrations usually arise from town mindset. Whether that applies to Giga-Alban interaction or not, I am not confident. Nevertheless, I just hope it is not a scum-scum charade. Right now, I will ISO each player and then make up my mind.
By the way, my reads till now-
Strong town- Transcend, Prince Lyon, GigabyteTroubadour
Town lean- Alban, Spade_Ace
Null- Dunnstral, schadd_, PenguinPower, WhemePlay
Scum lean- davesaz, Killthestory, Persivul, Titus
VOTE: Davesaz
But I will shift to Titus if that wagon builds.In post 669, bangthemafia wrote:Nothing much in last 6-7 pages. Somehow I still feel alban is town. I would love someone to walk me through his scummy points. Spade, your reason of scumreading alban because he is not scumreading you sucks totally. Is there anything else?
I am posting here whatever I could find in last 6-7 pages reading post by post. Have also done some ISO's and post them separately.
I am fine lynching someone from my scummiest reads- Titus > Davesaz > Whemmeplay > Killthestory = Persivul = Spade.
@Titus. please explain this.In post 532, Titus wrote:My VCA mini too early theory says you're scum. The fear response is noted.
Hows this? And who arethe other 2 you scumread?In post 539, Titus wrote:Looking at draft numbers and VCs, bang is likely the third.
@Spade, why do you expect a claim? Do you feel Titus has a PR? I am not sure but I think you agreed to someone's theory of Uzi replacing out due to vanilla frustration. Also, how does a PR claim decide alignment? If mafia were higher up in list, they would also get PRs, right?In post 548, Spade_Ace wrote: Titus is at L-1. Please claim.
Didnt understand this.In post 555, WhemePlay wrote:The on my town role she can claim is VT. How would any other claim sway you?
Thats important information. Thank you. But can someone else who has played with Titus earlier confirm / refute this?In post 626, davesaz wrote:
Not directed at me, but I've seen her misuse VCA as scum more often than she uses it at all as town.In post 596, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:lyon when titus replaces into scum slots does she still do vca like she does when replacing into a town slot?
idk the way shes doing it here still feels off to me and i cant rly put into words why
I am frustrated. Why cant you guys give reasons for your reads? I thought thats a common way of letting the town assess your thought process and whether they agree to it or find faults with your thought process.In post 649, Dunnstral wrote:wait, this is te game with bangthemafia? yeah let's lynch him,
davesaz always a viable option
penguinpower always a viable option
You are just useless. No point even engaging with you. You haven’t done anything towny for me. Just sending your one liners, commenting on others’ posts, being mildly aggressive, jumping your votes all over, without giving any solid reasons, you haven’t even given your complete list of reads.
In post 670, bangthemafia wrote:
This was for Titus voting for Spade. So he agrees with Titus about Spade. But doesnt vote for Spade.In post 381, davesaz wrote:I don't necessarily disagree, but care to explain why?
Throws shade on Titus, but keeps options open by saying its NAI. Timing of this post is bad. It is at the time when Spade wagon started dying and Titus wagon started picking up. More like basework for future voteparking. If Davesaz flips scum, I would suspect Spade as his scumbuddy.In post 405, davesaz wrote:Sorting Uzi will be unnecessary, except as it relates to Titus.
I think Titus is very unusual this game. Upbeat entrance "let's rock this" or something like that, and then she fell flat. Which is kinda what Uzi did too.
That is informative, but unfortunately it may not be AI.
In post 421, davesaz wrote:VOTE: Titus
So unlike town!Titus I've seen many times. The one time I've seen Titus avoid she was scum and I called it.
L-2
Need confirmation from others.In post 626, davesaz wrote:
Not directed at me, but I've seen her misuse VCA as scum more often than she uses it at all as town.In post 596, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:lyon when titus replaces into scum slots does she still do vca like she does when replacing into a town slot?
idk the way shes doing it here still feels off to me and i cant rly put into words why
Plus that Davesaz is the scummiest guy in the 1's. So if there is atleast 1 scum in 1’s, it is Davesaz in most probability.In post 672, bangthemafia wrote:
So he suspects "someone" who said that (Spade in his 116 and 118)In post 233, WhemePlay wrote:I can't find who said it but
Someone posted about schadd being a target tonight but pr protect them.
That sounds like a setup to explain why they are still alive.
Why would they say that or try to lead protectives?
Now those posts are "useless"In post 345, WhemePlay wrote:
I don't think I'm seeing what you see. But I see those posts as useless. Makes no sense to post them IMO.In post 332, schadd_ wrote:there's a certain thing i'm thinking about 116 & 118, and i'm wondering if anyone else sees it
In post 346, WhemePlay wrote:I also don't see enough to vote Spade
Again suspecting Spade just on those 2 posts, suspecting enough to vote. After that unvoting, voting Titus, again going back to Spade-In post 382, WhemePlay wrote:VOTE: Spade
Sheeping Titus. Don't hink i have ever done that before.
I also don't like Spade's speculation on reasons for schadd to be alive tomorrow. Setting up WINFOM shit.
Just to bend completely backwards, this could be an undecided townie in like a rare world, but in all other worlds, this is 1 obvscum.In post 574, WhemePlay wrote:In post 564, Spade_Ace wrote:
The only town role she can claim is VT, if she is a scum. If she claims any other town role, would you not be swayed??In post 555, WhemePlay wrote:The on my town role she can claim is VT. How would any other claim sway you?
VOTE: spadeIn post 1088, bangthemafia wrote:@Prince, whats wrong with 570? Lurkers are scum or not, or scum wpuld lurk or not is always a wifom. I can see both the points. But why would u giv a free pass to lurkers? And more importantly, if someone disagrees with ur reasoning, why is that a scumtell for u. I think the more rigid/tunnelled/closed/monosyllablic townies become, the more we harm town.
@Spade, I really dont know. Till now I hav not been able to see anything really hard-scummy there. I know he is extremely busy, travelling to cities and has joined new job. But apart from the activity, which is really NAI, I didmt see anything unusual. As I said few tens of pages back, I start almost every game scumreading my last game's scum. Then i tell myself not to get tunnelled and overdo that. So i think right now, unless i see something really scummy or unless there are some associative tells after few flips, i m not for alban lynch so early.
By the way, what do u feel about my 672 post and Whemmeplay?
All I am seeing in Bang's iso is that he is scum. He is using on of my favorite scum strats, acting oblivious, to deflect attention. He is going against people for acting friendly but with the way I see things, a Bang Spade team is a serious possibility. Everything seems thought out and detached, no emotion shown.
VOTE: Bang
I would be willing to go Spade as well if that is how th rest of the town wants to go.-
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bangthemafia Goon
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I am not sure about anyone else hitting a scum. I m comfortable voting only for Dave or even Titus.In post 1537, Transcend wrote:Let's lynch in this and see if anyone has any complaints: {Dave Titus bang Alban PenguinPower giga}-
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bangthemafia Goon
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