Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[RadiantCowbells]

NAVY GET YOUR ASS BACK IN THE GAME.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not.
No one is lynching anyone until I'm 100% sure what I want to do. And no one is lynching Navy period, she's town.
Can I get a full list of claims?

[RadiantCowbells]

Also hi Titus! I love what you're doing here, I think it's great

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay then.

VOTE: Titus

game ends when she dies.

[RadiantCowbells]

I saw that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Aww sorry about your cop clear honey but in case you hadn't forgotten this is the strategy that you stole from me

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Mathblade

[RadiantCowbells]

If I die tonight everyone is voting Titus tomorrow.
You're not going to say shit about how Math and Titus wouldn't have done this because I was the one who came up with the play that they're doing in 685 with Titus.

Just vote Math. Math will flip town.

Sure, honey

[RadiantCowbells]

If I die tonight everyone is voting Titus tomorrow.
You're not going to say shit about how Math and Titus wouldn't have done this because I was the one who came up with the play that they're doing in 685 with Titus.

Just vote Math. Math will flip town.

Sure, honey

685 was a game where I faked a cop guilty on my partner. Math has an innocent. So that doesn't work and even if we fail to lynch scum!Navy, you'll be shown to be full of shit.

@Math, I didn't realize you had Navy in there. Brain fart on my end.

OH NO BULLSHIT THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS FOR YOU TO INNO ME.
YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO LIE BECAUSE THE SCUM TOPIC NEVER GOT RELEASED.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ftr my original suggestion was that she inno me which I still think would have been a fantastic play but she wasn't a fan so this was the play

TITUS IS BLATANTLY LYING. THE ORIGINAL DISCUSSION WE HAD WAS THAT SHE WOULD INNO ME SO PEOPLE WOULD LAY THE FUCK OFF ME. THAT CHANGED TO A GUILTY BECAUSE SHE WASN'T COMFORTABLE INNOING ME.
I DO NOT HAVE SCUM TOPIC BUT I REFERENCED THIS FACT SEVERAL TIMES IN THE POSTGAME OF THE GAME AND TITUS NEVER OBJECTED TO IT THERE.

[RadiantCowbells]

We discussed and dismissed several plans over skype. We decided on guiltying you. I have done practically every move as town and as scum. So yeah, most everyone here knows it.

Right yeah you're comparing the fact that I came up with the exact same plan in the exact same setup with the exact same execution and you've 'practically done everything'

[RadiantCowbells]

I CLAIM COP WITH A GUILTY ON TITUS. WE ARE LYNCHING IN THE TWO OF US, OR MATHBLADE IF I CAN'T NEGOTIATE A TITUS LYNCH.

[RadiantCowbells]

.......RC As I said earlier I checked Titus because I scumread her a fuck ton each game we play in. She was a policy check for me.

Good for you.

[RadiantCowbells]

She stole a strategy that we discussed last time we played this. If she was actually town who got innoed by Math she would totally understand where my suspicion here comes from.

Rather than that she's playing it off, acting like it means nothing that we came up with this strategy in the last version of this setup, and scumreading Navy basically for flaking when flaking is a towntell for her.

[RadiantCowbells]

I CLAIM COP WITH A GUILTY ON TITUS. WE ARE LYNCHING IN THE TWO OF US, OR MATHBLADE IF I CAN'T NEGOTIATE A TITUS LYNCH.

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

This is easy. This is the one PoE time where it strategically makes sense to vote a cop claim from my perspective. There's not a chance you have a guilty on me. Agent Sparkles would have claimed it and he did post today. He didn't. He never really pushed Math either as lying.

So you want to play with Fire? Go ahead.

Titus pretending not to understand the context behind my 'claiming a guilty' and acting like I'm claiming a legitimate guilty and pointing to my predecessor's play as an excuse.
If she were town: she would know I would be not serious. I wouldn't rando fakeguilty her as scum either. She's scum instead so she's legitimately concerned that my slot could have had a guilty.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

NEVERMIND TITUS IS PROBABLY TOWN

[RadiantCowbells]

The tone deafness here is NAI and I don't think this is how she'd react as scum.

I thought she was town anyway, I just felt like making sure that she wasn't pulling the gambit that I came up with.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm town, Navy is still very probably town.
I'm going to read the other doctor claims.

For the record I think that Mathblade is probably scum, regardless of Titus's alignment, but I want to sort out the doc situation today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually we could just lynch Mathblade.

[RadiantCowbells]

She always was. I just wanted to be sure.

I understand why you're scumreading her but she's probably not scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Mathblade

Okay!

Alban was a scumread since before I replaced in: is there a reason he's cleared?

[RadiantCowbells]

That was a N1 protect?

[RadiantCowbells]

If Titus is town I'm willing to take a chance voting Navy. I don't necessarily think that she's scum but I don't have a strong read on her one way or the other and Alban seems okay, Kelvin seems town, Titus seems fine.

If it's not Navy then it would be Alban.

[RadiantCowbells]

For the record NJAC seemed to have been in pretty solid standing day 1 whereas I don't necessarily buy Creature eating one nightkill, let alone two.

I feel like it's more likely that scum shot at NJAC then shot at Creature for unrelated reasons and/or to make Alban look townier than for the creature protect specifically to have been in play.

There was another doc protect on D1, right? on who?

[RadiantCowbells]

I know Sheep's main and them replacing out as scum in that situation doesn't really resonate with me whereas them doing it as scum makes a lot of sense.

I would prefer to lynch Alban as opposed to any of the other doctor claims. I further point out that Math has been calling Alban confscum the whole game but is voting everywhere else.

[RadiantCowbells]

Whereas them doing it as town. Sorry for the poor wording.

So, there's 3 potential doc protects.

1) Gamma/Itlepip, who was a major wagon for a substantial amount of D1 and as a result feels really unlikely to have been the shot.
2) Creature, who was not a major wagon but also not a major priority and is not a particularly threatening player as scum
3) NJAC. Heavily townread, never wagoned, on the lower end of activity but contributed a lot to the game.

I strongly believe that my protect was the one that actually happened.

[RadiantCowbells]

Math and Alban have been doing this weird deathtunnel thing on each other for a while but on both ends

1) Math keeps calling Alban virtually confirmed scum but repeatedly finds reasons to vote for other people on the grounds of being partners.
2) Alban calls Mathblade scum, discredits reasons people give for voting the wagon, and hasn't actually tried to make the wagon a thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

{RC}
{Titus, NJAC}
{Kelvin, Navy}
-blob of nullreads-
{Mathblade, Alban}

[RadiantCowbells]

The half troll half ate thing sort of reminds me of Navy's play in Myko's game where ABR told them that they were gonna bus them so they just trolled for a while.

[RadiantCowbells]

Relax kevlin you're fine

[RadiantCowbells]

Math if you vote Alban I'll lynch Alban.

Otherwise we're lynching you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because Alban's the most likely scum in the doc claims.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alban between then and now I asked you if you were okay if I joined a game and you said you were totally fine with it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Would you like me to replace out?

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus can you please just trust me and we lynch math?

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay, so forget about them for now.

Doc claims.

I think Navy is town. can we lynch Alban?

[RadiantCowbells]

What happens when Navy flips town?

[RadiantCowbells]

No, you're missing my question.
Navy flips town there's scum in me/kelvin/alban.
That's Alban.

I can't help you with your reads right now because you're going to lead this game to a town loss, sorry.

VOTE: mathblade

[RadiantCowbells]

Navy is an alt of an established player.

[RadiantCowbells]

They're touchy about it but I can confirm that they're still posting.

[RadiantCowbells]

100%.

[RadiantCowbells]

there's a reason the first thing I did when I replaced in was to tell them to get their butt back here.

[RadiantCowbells]

why are you acting like I should conflate Navy refusing to post with being scum?

No I'm not going to fucking lynch them because if I lynch them you're not suddenly going to start thinking that math or alban are scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay then if you're town consider yourself a sacrifice to get town on the same page.

[RadiantCowbells]

why are you acting like I should conflate Navy refusing to post with being scum?

No I'm not going to fucking lynch them because if I lynch them you're not suddenly going to start thinking that math or alban are scum.

And guess what, if I lynch Math you won't lynch or bus Navy. There's no reason to TR them.

Why don't we do this another way.

You vote MathBlade with me.

If they flip town, I give you whatever lynch you want.
If they flip scum, you agree that your reads are not on point this game and I get a doublevote.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you agree that you're claiming scum if you don't vote with me tomorrow, yes.

I'm not literally 100% sure that Navy's town and that's not the point of this exercise but I am not okay with you lynching her and turning on me.

[RadiantCowbells]

The point is that how I expect this game to go right now is that Navy gets lynched, flips town, then I get lynched over Alban tomorrow and scum win.

If you're going to vote elsewhere on a scumflip I'm okay with following you. If you're going to follow my reads if Navy's town I'm willing to take a chance on a lynch I'm not confident in.

[RadiantCowbells]

That assumes that Math is town. If you're wrong on Navy why are you so confident that you'd be right on Math?

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're not going to agree to lynch my target tomorrow then I'm lynching Mathblade today.

[RadiantCowbells]

The type of read that you have on Math, something that's ego driven and personal, is something that you're consistently wrong on.
I think that Math's play around me is really fucking wrong tonally wrt what I would expect from them given how our last game went and like I can conceive that they're trying to mend bridges but wtf.
If you're not going to make any sort of compromises with me then I'm going to lynch Mathblade and if they're town I'll continue to do my own thing.
And who knows, maybe you're right, maybe you solved the game and I'm being an idiot. But I've given you the option to test your reads and you're refusing to do so.
You don't get to be confident enough in your reads to refuse to support my reads but not be confident enough that you're willing to gamble on it.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're not going to agree to lynch my target tomorrow then I'm lynching Mathblade today.

No you're not unless Math is town.

Titus you know full well that I am able to force a math lynch today. If you're not going to work with me that's what I'm going to do.

[RadiantCowbells]

like you don't get to hold the game hostage on a read you're not even confident in.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes, I will marry you.

[RadiantCowbells]

-Math super probably scum
-Titus probably town but being Titus.
-Kelvin town
-NJAC was very probably the N1 save
-Scum in Navy/Alban

[RadiantCowbells]

Math claims an inno peek on Titus but lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Gamma can be scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're not going to agree to lynch my target tomorrow then I'm lynching Mathblade today.

No you're not unless Math is town.

10 players left. 6 to lynch. Me, RC, Paul, alban, and Gamma's slot have all expressed interest in a Math lynch. One more for hammer. For the sake of your argument, I'll assume that none of the people interested in Math are scum.

If Math is scum and you are town, that leaves two more scum who can decide to not hammer and one more town to hammer.

If Math is scum and you are scum, that leaves two town to hammer, assuming alban.

If Math is town and you are town, then there won't be any shortage of people willing to lynch Math.

There is no scenrio where Math is town and you are scum, so no need to mention that.

As you can see, if you're going to be completely unreasonable, that's your call, but we don't need you for this lynch. More resistance to this lynch inherently exists if Math is scum. So if everybody refuses to hammer and would rather take the no lynch, it confirms that Math is scum.

And yeah like scum clearly don't want to bus right now so how difficult Math has been to lynch should say a lot to you.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's legitimately not biologically possible for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm having serious deja vu right now

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus, have you made a decision?

I'm even willing to knock Math off the lynch list because there's two other scum and I feel like I know both of them.

[RadiantCowbells]

But when there's one scum left you are not allowed to oppose Math, regardless of whether I'm alive or not.

[RadiantCowbells]

So he's just scum either way, got it.

[RadiantCowbells]

-Alban confirmed scum
-Gamma entrance terrible

[RadiantCowbells]

Well if Alban and Mathblade are both locktown to you and Navy flips town then this game is unwinnable.

[RadiantCowbells]

-I don't think Titus is scum.
-I'm town.
-I believe you're town, Kelvin.

So assuming navy flips town, yes Alban is in fact confirmed scum. If he doesn't then Alban is town.

But Titus's reads are blinkering hard rn

[RadiantCowbells]

Tbh Alban could easily be scum with navy though. But at any rate if Navy's town then Alban is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

In this context it's a synonym for terrible.

[RadiantCowbells]

-Alban confirmed scum
-Gamma entrance terrible

How is alban confirmed scum?

Because RC is either out of his mind or mafia
Why does alban CC doc as number 3 if he's mafia?

Why did Titus CC cop as the third night 1 cop in our last game?

It's not at all an unreasonable thing to do, especially if you think you'll get townread for claiming with so many in one night and you've planned to claim doc anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like news flash Kelvin is obvtown there is scum in Navy and Alban.

I don't think Navy is scum so that leaves Alban.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't either.

So, Navy or Alban.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay yeah Titus has no interest in looking past her own ego and trying to play a team game so I'm done with her.

VOTE: Mathblade

This or Gamma today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not lynching Navy to have Titus turn around and fuck the game over by lynching me if she's town like I suspect.

Even if you're town I'd rather lose the game on my reads then give into Titus when she's refusing to even try to respect my reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nah if we're lynching a doc today it'll be Alban first so that if it goes awry we don't automatically lose the game through Titus's

locktown

reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Except she won't and can't. Navy or Alban.

One of those two has to give us a scum lynch. We all three know this. So the three of us agree. Navy first as Titus and I suspect and if not then we lynch Alban like you suspected. So town block of awesome works together and compromises.

RC, you see this fucking shit right here? This is the kind of shit that makes me think that neither alban nor Navy are scum and that it's definitely fucking Titus.

I don't think Mathblade is dumb enough to blatantly ask to be given the win. I think this is just distancing by paying lip service to being willing to vote Alban here.
I think it's more likely that Alban is the scumpartner and they're going to find an excuse to have nothing to do with that wagon when it comes up like they've been doing the whole game.

I have an extremely solid track record of reading Titus and this falls squarely into her town game. I understand the scumread, but I don't agree with it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay
Why does he think you are Town?

I'm not him, so I can't really say. I'd assume because people think I'm obvtown.

Until he replaced in, I've been the only person actively crusading for the extremely necessary Math lynch. So unless I'm hard bussing Math (which I admittedly might have done, but probably wouldn't have, because there was at least one easy town lynch), then I'm town.

I'm also the only one who was advocating a logic-based lynch, rather than some random, shot-in-the-dark Doc lynch bullshit.

Also: Gamma's play looks like scum scared because I was pushing on their buddies and if he was scum with Titus he has no reason to do what he's doing.

[RadiantCowbells]

Don't trust my reads, or don't trust my alignment?

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're playing town you're not coming in hot, you're coming in at basically absolute zero considering you've said shit about anyone who isn't me and I'm town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alternative facts

[RadiantCowbells]

Is your paranoia on me really worth blowing a cop investigation on a person super likely to be nightkilled?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think scum!Gamma flies in trying to pick a fight with me unless I'm a serious threat to his team at that poitn. I think that if it was Titus/Mathblade he'd stay out of the way.

[RadiantCowbells]

And ftr if we lynch in the docs we're copping the shit out of mathblade.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think scum!Gamma flies in trying to pick a fight with me unless I'm a serious threat to his team at that poitn. I think that if it was Titus/Mathblade he'd stay out of the way.

You think scumGamma would do something so naked as attack you just because you pose a serious threat to his team?

yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sure, maybe, but his opening was way played up, his points felt like he was looking for something to throw at me, and he's scummy in general.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alban you haven't given a reason that I'm scum besides describing my playstyle in general in very, very negative terms and calling me scum.

In what way are you saying that my play in this game is specifically indicative of my scum play rather than just my play in general?

[RadiantCowbells]

And furthermore your single experience with me as scum is EXTREMELY unreflective of my general scum play.
I set out that game specifically to mimic what GigabyteTroubadour specifically thinks is my town meta as much as I could.
Like if that game is your context for my scum meta, then your reads are going to be ass backwards most of the time.

Alban- if we lynch Navy and she flips scum, what's your read on me?

[RadiantCowbells]

FYI, I'm currently working on developing a framework so that the coming Days are entirely strategic and virtually devoid of having to rely on reads. We've only got about 60 hours to until the deadline (unless we get an extension), so we all need to start preparing for later Days, in case any of aren't around.

I also think we might want to NL tomorrow, regardless of if Math flips scum. I need to crunch the numbers, but I'm trying to think about LyLo. We're probably going to have to squeeze every mislynch out possible if we use a strategic framework, but it should give us the most real data. I'll try to take time to think about and explain it tomorrow, but I've also got some business to attend to, do it might be late or it might have to wait until Thursday.

We never NL, period, until day 6.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus you don't get to randomly tell people to cop me because you've been too lazy in the ~50 games we've played together to ever make a tiny bit of effort to learn to read me.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I'm getting copped then

1) I'm getting a doctor on me
and
2) everyone shuts the fuck up and follows my lead tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus you don't get to randomly tell people to cop me because you've been too lazy in the ~50 games we've played together to ever make a tiny bit of effort to learn to read me.

I think there's more to it
Can we talk about reads?

I'm sort of stuck on RL shit right now. I have internet access for like the next 5 minutes, that's it.

[RadiantCowbells]

My assessment of you also doesn't stand alone. In the games where you were town, you have been lynched/day-vigged on D1.
No, I am not saying you are a conf!scum. I am saying this: You have an extremely confident playstyle which is foolhardy as a town coz it misdirects a fair proportion of the players, and is extremely dangerous as a scum. This style of play coupled with Agent Sparkles being on my scumlist, I am fine with lynching you. We were proceeding slowly to the deadline before you came in, but now I think because of your playstyle, we are lost again. Worst is there will be some players who will be swayed by your apparent confidence. I prefer slow > being lost > being a sheep.

I WAS DAYVIGGED.
BY SCUM.
BECAUSE I CALLED THE ENTIRE MAFIA TEAM.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll be back like in 4 hours for a bit to talk.

[RadiantCowbells]

burnt my thumb badly dont really want to type atm

[RadiantCowbells]

no. on principle I refuse to vote with you and implicitly acknowledge that what you are doing here is okay.
its not. you talk so much about cooperation and town unity but all it ever seems to mean to you is everyone doing what you want.

[RadiantCowbells]

we both agree with the assessment that this game suffers from too many cooks in the kitchen but you're refusing to any sort of compromise that isn't literally just your reads being followed.

sorry do you think that you're just better than me and kelvin and others and our reads dont matter? like even contingent on someone being proven right you are just like nah my reads go

[RadiantCowbells]

like I took your townread on math into account. and your scumread on navy. I have spent hours of RL time understanding the context of all of your reads and gotten to the point where I can read a couple of your posts and snap judge your alignment instantly.

you? 50 games in with several hydras and you've got shit for reading me. every time you have lynched me I've been town.

like I know exactly what buttons to press here if I were scum to get you to do what I want. you know that as well as I do. if you're going to make zero effort to try to understand how I tick the least you could do is show my reads some respect.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agreed to lynch navy if you would start listening to my reads

if

you were wrong. on a read im not even sure is wrong given Alban's fit.

why am i required to continually make concessions to you when we disagree?

[RadiantCowbells]

I agreed to lynch navy if you would start listening to my reads

if

you were wrong. on a read im not even sure is wrong given Alban's fit.

why am i required to continually make concessions to you when we disagree?

No. I am. Assigning the cops is making a concession Math could be scum. I gave my biggest TR the responsibility of checking you because I don't trust you, mainly because you cannot see town Math.

nah thats not a concession.

why should I even want cops spent on a slot i'm sure is scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: titus

this is the best move for the health of the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

no as scum I manipulate you into townreading the people I want alive and scumreading town. why can I snapread you but you have never even tried to learn to read me?

[RadiantCowbells]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

[RadiantCowbells]

i can manipulate you because it mattered to me enough as a player to learn what makes you tick. why did you never care enough to do the same?

And you're trying to manipulate me now regardless of alignment in a slimy way.

You also know I am slower to pick up on things like that.

I don't like being manipulated RC.

no this is me trying to have a conversation with you

in case you hadnt realized you never pick up on me actually manipulating you.

are you slower or have you never tried?

[RadiantCowbells]

i am typing one handed we would not be having this conversation if I was not upset: regardless of what alignment either of us are.

[RadiantCowbells]

me hiplop and kats all agreed we were a townbloc in f2f mafia. we all voted summer. it took 2 minutes before anyone would hammer so she was confscum obviously. she flipped town and venged empire. we lynched ari then chevre and won. all 3 of us had been town who correctly 'townblocked'

[RadiantCowbells]

then you missed the point of the story.

[RadiantCowbells]

scum aren't ever as predictable as you expect them to be: your subset of reads based off of 'scum would do x' are never right

[RadiantCowbells]

Doubly so if RC is town.

because you're gonna turn around and mislynch me like our last game?

[RadiantCowbells]

navy scum doesn't change my readslist

[RadiantCowbells]

and you know full well I meant last game where we were both town

except for the one I replaced out of because you doing exactly what you're doing here killed my desire to play (mini normal)

extrapolate from that and think long and hard whether me being unhappy with you is a scum ploy

[RadiantCowbells]

You remember how I defended Boon in girls girls girls. I was right there.

wrong. just because someone isn't mafia doesn't mean they're not scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't have a better lynch in the doc claims as long as you are going to lynch me if navy is town and I can't say 100% that she isn't.

and blowing cops in the doc pool is catastrophically bad long term

[RadiantCowbells]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

further

1) I am eating a nightkill at some point regardless of conftown status and me demanding doc protection lets scum shoot cops
2) there's only one scum in the docs I am 99.99% sure

[RadiantCowbells]

RC id vote with u but Titus wont go anywhere. Also Math is a better lynch info wise.

Rn I'll even lynch alban.

pedit: sorry im just very very very pissed. apologies alban. I wuz out of line.

Don't worry about it. I rather have someone calling me dumass rather the doling out patronising words of wisdom.

Yeah. This game has been very patronizing and insulting while Kelvin basically anti-town tunnels, RC basically is starting from me being wrong..

No im starting from if you're wrong i want to take the reins and you're refusing even that.

[RadiantCowbells]

this isnt ego games this is you refusing to consider that you could be wrong on 5 different reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

we aren't copping in the doc claims, period. a cop on a cop confirms the cop and the result.

and no, I said it wasn't because I didn't feel like picking a fight. I will happily show you the pm i sent to the mod while replacing out in postgame

It doesn't though. A lynch on a Cop confirms the result. Cop on Docs, lynch Cops on innocent, lynch Docs on guilty. Confirmed town gets protection.

there are a limited # of scum to fakeclaim cop. we arent just gonna lynch inno claims, we are lynching math because scumfuck

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't feel like making cases.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why do I always have to drop my style of play and cater to how you like to be talked to?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like fuck I have a third degree burn on my thumb im typing with 1 hand there's no chance in hell im typing extensive cases right now

[RadiantCowbells]

rather than you voting someone you agree with me is scum?

I have told you why I am unwilling to risk a Navy lynch and it comes down to expecting you to mislynch me tomorrow if she is actually town because you hard townread Alban for no reason.

[RadiantCowbells]

putting yourself above the team isn't it.

you are the only one in the entire game doing this

[RadiantCowbells]

if i get lynched after navy we flat out lose the game in case you hadnt figured that out

so i either tell the cops to make the incredibly suboptimal play of checking me if navy flips town, get shot later, and you never reconsider math

or we just lynch math today and try to wait to solve docs until scum in cops are dead

[RadiantCowbells]

if navy flips town we either tell cops to check math, in which case scum can easily mislynch me since your reads are bad, or check me, in which case you never reevaluate math

and from a starting ground of you being wrong thats not okay for me

Alban claims to but like I have established has never actually pushed the slot with their voote down for a prolonged period

[RadiantCowbells]

and note that now that math has momentum hes refusing to do anything but vote RC the vanity wagon

[RadiantCowbells]

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

or he's scum who realizes that if he lynches navy, they flip town, me and him are in the spotlight. note that he never expressed a townread on navy and he backtracked his scumread on me, so why is he voting me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Alban you haven't given a reason that I'm scum besides describing my playstyle in general in very, very negative terms and calling me scum.

In what way are you saying that my play in this game is specifically indicative of my scum play rather than just my play in general?

And furthermore your single experience with me as scum is EXTREMELY unreflective of my general scum play.
I set out that game specifically to mimic what GigabyteTroubadour specifically thinks is my town meta as much as I could.
Like if that game is your context for my scum meta, then your reads are going to be ass backwards most of the time.

Alban- if we lynch Navy and she flips scum, what's your read on me?

You may have forgotten, but I have not, that we have played multiple games together.
My assessment of you also doesn't stand alone. In the games where you were town, you have been lynched/day-vigged on D1.
No, I am not saying you are a conf!scum. I am saying this: You have an extremely confident playstyle which is foolhardy as a town coz it misdirects a fair proportion of the players, and is extremely dangerous as a scum. This style of play coupled with Agent Sparkles being on my scumlist, I am fine with lynching you. We were proceeding slowly to the deadline before you came in, but now I think because of your playstyle, we are lost again. Worst is there will be some players who will be swayed by your apparent confidence. I prefer slow > being lost > being a sheep.

Since I have played with you as a scum where the hallmark of your scum!game was to incriminate your scum!partners to gain towncred, I am not even going to answer the point about Navy. But anyone who is interested in looking at the Navy-RC association should just ISO RC and look at the arc of your Navy read. You started off by calling them conf!town and now you are ready to lynch them. You have no reference points coz you replaced in so late, you do not give any reasoning why you think what you think, and my experience with you as a town is that your reads are not bang on and you don't learn from your mistakes. When you make a wrong move as a town by lynching a townie, you come back the next day by discrediting that townie and how they deserved to be lynched. All this would be scummy on any other player, but it never sticks on you because of your level of confidence. My observation is that people are more taken in by confidence than by logic, which works in your favour. Hell, even me who is kinda the flagbearer of anti-you this game, is thinking inside, 'what if RC is correct?', and that itself is an indication of your power. So, I have to bend over backwards to not be queuing in the line. To wrap up, I am not sure who you are, but I lynching you would benefit the game regardless of your alignment.

this

[RadiantCowbells]

alban said they were pling me. most of the wall is also wrong. wtf titus? how do you agree with it

[RadiantCowbells]

this game makes me understand why people feel the way they do about you.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: navy

I quit. if you're right congratulations. I hope it was worth it to you.

[RadiantCowbells]

regardless of what this flips any n3 cops are going on math

[RadiantCowbells]

nah that would be bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mathblade <--- Vedith cops
RadiantCowbells <--- Gamma cops
Navy <---- lynched
Paul <--- NJAC cops
Vedith <---- Paul cops

[RadiantCowbells]

if navy flips town gamma is a high priority doc protect
otherwise vedith is the top priority doc protect

[RadiantCowbells]

Mathblade <--- Vedith cops
RadiantCowbells <--- Gamma cops
Navy <---- lynched
Paul <--- NJAC cops
Vedith <---- Paul cops

I'm ok with this but where's alban on here? That doesn't accomodate your SR.

why would I blow more than 1 cop in the docs?

i'm spending one on me because otherwise you'll throw a fit. inno on me confirms alban as scum anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

^assuming navy townflip

if navy flips scum gamma can check somewhere else at their discretion.

if you want all day 3 cops on Math I will not stop you but it's not optimal.

[RadiantCowbells]

no shit i feel bullied you just agreed with alban that i'm a loud braggart with no substance who gets his way because i yell the loudest.

how else am i supposed to feel rn?

[RadiantCowbells]

which cop do you want checking me then?

[RadiantCowbells]

we are never no lynching when another save = another ml

[RadiantCowbells]

which cop do you want checking me then?

Doesn't really matter as long as there's a cop on every living doc (math in place of me if paranoid) and a doc on every cop that can get a result

we arent fucking blowing 3 cops on the docs ever

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus you may not respect me but everyone else in this game does and there's no fucking way I'm letting things go your way.

Cop checks on docs are useless if we don't know what alignments they come from.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nope, not discussing it with you when you're being like this. You can tell people to do what you want but they're just not going to listen to you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alban threatening to replace out if people scumread you is way outside of the spirit of the game regardless of your alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree about HM ftr

I'd lynch alban.

VOTE: Alban

[RadiantCowbells]

Math if you're not on this after everything you've said about his slot and he flips scum no one is copping you, you're just getting autolynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

alban flips scum, math has spent the game calling him scum but prevented him from being wagoned, alban spent the entire game calling your sibling scum but has been defending them now that they're a real wagon

and that doesn't make you reconsider your position at all? that's called confbias and that's why I'm not taking your mathblade seriously any more than you're taking mine seriously.

[RadiantCowbells]

if math wants to be town they can put their vote where their mouth is.

[RadiantCowbells]

HE HAS DONE THAT.

ARE YOU READING HIS POSTS?

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay. If I am going to be a suspect regardless of what I do, I am not gonna vote for Math/Navy. You can take support from other parties. My vote is fine where it is. At this point in the game, I will play based on my beliefs rather than yours/Titus's/RC's. I was ready to vote for Math, but you are very cleverly safeguarding your interests either coz of your playstyle or coz you are a scum.

My two cents: My suggestion to the cops will be regardless of who turns out to be what at the lynch's end, they should cop Kelvin/Titus/RC tonight so that there's at least one confirmed player who can drive the game. These three are being active and giving out a vibe that they know what they are doing. Till I am not sure about their alignment, I can't trust their plan. I think the hierarchy should be RC>Titus>Kelvin, and then the town should tomorrow do more or less what the confirmed townie feels is right. The danger in copping inactive players or players who are not in a position to drive the game is that even if you know their alignment, so what? Like if you cop me, and know that I am town, how is it going to affect the game? At this point, it might be good for everyone to know the alignment of a driven player rather than for a driven player to know the alignment of an inactive one. That way even the driven player will derive more traction.

Alban has been calling Math scum the whole game.
but when it looks like it might happen he backs down, specifically calls for a suboptimal cop to be made in the docs, demands not to be copped, calls for cops to NOT target mathblade
and frankly him calling for the cop in a way that it's obviously going to wind up hitting me makes me feel like he's just decided that I'm getting shot tonight no matter what.

so no I'm not putting words into Alban's mouth like you claim: these are their actual posts. but you're ignoring it because it doesn't fit your narrative about the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

and you get a chance to renounce your opposition to the will of the senate and henceforth submit your vote into the keeping of emperor radiantcowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

my

attitude isn't helping. well ok then.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think we can get Kelvin's vote
Gamma seems like he's coming around

There'll be no deadlines while we're missing both Navy and NJAC slot, correct?

[RadiantCowbells]

creature was heavily scumread D1, there's no reason he would have been the nightkill target.

his slot was shot d2 because he claimed cop, not because it was a repeat kill.

NJAC was by far the most likely doc save.

[RadiantCowbells]

read the game yourself if you're town

[RadiantCowbells]

a cursory inspection of the votecounts will show you that creature was a wagon for much of d1 and there were other people expressing their support for the wagon on D1.

he wasn't the nightkill in any universe.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're going to throw shitty shade at me then I'll assume that you're scum and vote you instead.

[RadiantCowbells]

So Vedith if you're town why was Creature the nightkill N1?

[RadiantCowbells]

Creature has never been fearkilled in his life and he didn't start in this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

so Vedith's not even pretending to be town here

[RadiantCowbells]

let's see an example of creature being fearklled when they were a major wagon and a viable lynch. I'll wait.

[RadiantCowbells]

why is he lurker scum and not lurker town

i mean he fucking replaced out maybe he was busy irl like he said he was

[RadiantCowbells]

okay so titus you have seen slots get busy and not push stuff for days and be town. this is not your first experience with this. you don't get to just determine that your narrative is 100% correct.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have started asking for replacements ftr

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah idk.

Like I could see Math going ham because she needs the towncred and Alban is getting lynched anyway for being in the doc pool but this kinda feels like we're barking up the wrong tree

want to go back on navy?

[RadiantCowbells]

My apologies for mispronouning.

And uhh no you are nowhere near as good as you think that you are as a scum player, regardless of what alignment you are in this game.

You get away with so, so much bullshit simply based on 'oh Math is always a complete catastrophe so them basically scumclaiming means nothing in this game'

and on top of that you're not even that good with a ridiculous amount of benefit of the doubt. winning easy scum games is just that, easy.

[RadiantCowbells]

My apologies for mispronouning.

And uhh no you are nowhere near as good as you think that you are as a scum player, regardless of what alignment you are in this game.

You get away with so, so much bullshit simply based on 'oh Math is always a complete catastrophe so them basically scumclaiming means nothing in this game'

and on top of that you're not even that good with a ridiculous amount of benefit of the doubt. winning easy scum games is just that, easy.

Yeah...Gistou and Elemental Trinity would disagree with you.

I have bad games. I have good ones.

However I am damn good as scum. I know you have this whole "omg Math is scum" scare them thing going on like you do every time you're scumreading me. And it never works. Because I am Town.

Kelvin just doesn't want to admit it. Back in that Gistou game fooled 42 different people.

okay great you succeeded as scum once. I'm super proud of you. you have never lost a scum game that I wouldn't have won.

[RadiantCowbells]

a cursory inspection of the votecounts will show you that creature was a wagon for much of d1 and there were other people expressing their support for the wagon on D1.

he wasn't the nightkill in any universe.

So you never read day 1. cool.

Exactly. This guy never reads, gives false logic, misrepresents me, and wants to get away with it.

even if you're town NJAC was the nightkill. sorry that's just facts.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're going to throw shitty shade at me then I'll assume that you're scum and vote you instead.

So, everyone who disagrees with you is a scum?

No, everyone who is doing literally the exact same thing in our previous game where they were scum is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

why is he lurker scum and not lurker town

i mean he fucking replaced out maybe he was busy irl like he said he was

So, then why was he saved? Why would a one time doc heal a lurker? Why would scums target a lurker that helps them later?

Because NJAC wasn't a lurker on day 1. he was reasonably well townread and I can empathize with my predecessor's choice of target.

He was reasonably low activity at the time but he was doing stuff: it wasn't until day 2 that he started vanishing from the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Just wanted to mention that Titus didn't read D1 yet she thinks AS's choice of protecting my slot made no sense. Those who read D1 know that I was town read by several players.

I think AS is town.

going to bump this and also point out that he made 42 posts on day 1 then 23 over the remainder of the game, so he wasn't lurking on day 1.

[RadiantCowbells]

WHAT?! Everyone who has played with me knows that I have very different town and scum games, and this game is my town game --- being skeptic about popular wagons, being easy lynches, being vindictive, etc. My scum game is extremely calm and composed. Even if I am boiling within, I will pose as a zen. The only time I lost my cool as a scum was when I was scum with you and thats coz you used my slot without my consent, got me lynched and gained town cred for yourself. So yeah, if I am scum, then so are you. Coz you are doing exactly that now.

???

Your slot lived to endgame. because I worked my ass off to keep it alive. Sorry but simply never touching your scumpartners isn't going to cut it in such a townsided game.

We won at the end, if you went back and looked, because the interplay between our slots on D1 made us not possibly scumpartners. Which I did despite your protests.

Also you were crying at me for my choice of actions night 1, but if I hadn't changed all the actions away from what you wanted to do I would have been guiltied and we'd have been fucking slaughtered after the watcher watched Schadd next night and we'd be down to 1 player versus a massive block of confirmable town PRs.

I never intended for you to get lynched. You didn't get lynched. I let nancy get guiltied because it was the best move for the team and it won us the game. Sorry if you didn't like the way I do things because I get that it's not exactly the most fun thing in the world to play around me wanting to make sure we could reach endgame as a team. but we did because of things I did.

And I was referring to Vedith, not you. I don't really understand the difference between your town and scum meta as things are. I just know that you're scummy in general.

Like the one reason that I don't want to vote you is that Mathblade seems sorta keen on lynching you but I know that they would probably aggressively bus in this situation so.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I was super clear the entire game that my intention was not for you to get lynched.
When your slot was actually under threat of being lynched I stuck my neck out super, super hard preventing your slots lynch via pretending that I was just sick of seeing nancy quicklynched.
I was willing to do things that could, very unlikely, but potentially get you lynched: because if I didn't we wouldn't win late game. but if you had actually been at major threat of getting lynched I'd have pulled your ass out of the fire.

I don't always bus. If you read Civ I didn't touch any of my scumpartners and brought Gork from a lead wagon to there never being a serious wagon on scum again for the remainder of the game.

I play to win and taking my slot more seriously than other slots is the only rational play considering that I'm just, like, better at scum play than you or bang.
And I don't say that to brag it's just a rational fact and if you're approaching the situation objectively there's not really grounds for disagreeing with it.

Even if Agent Sparkles saved NJAC, how would AS know that NJAC was the choice for NK? How does anyone know anything for sure? That was my point. In fact, if I am town, why is it so difficult for RC to digest that Creature could have been the choice for NK?

Because it seems far, far less likely from my point of view. NJAC seems like a sort of obvious nightkill at the time, whereas Creature was reasonably lynchable and scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

And no I don't have issues digesting anything.

There's 3 choices and of the choices 2 of them don't really seem likely to me whereas my protect (and the one that I KNOW came from town) seems like a likely nightkill target.

It feels to me like not a single person talking has read day 1 and that makes me laugh at people (vedith) calling me out for it because Creature was getting a lot of flak whereas NJAC was a general townread.

[RadiantCowbells]

It also turned ugly coz you were unable to digest the fact that I was shading you. It was fine till you implicated me and distanced yourself from me, but the moment i started giving out logical points as to why you could be scum, you cried on the scumchat. So no, it wasn't me who complained, but it was you who couldn't handle the shit that was give to you in return.

No. I didn't like the manner that you were doing so. It felt scum v scum. I have zero issues with my scumpartners pushing on me. In NY184 I had both my team push on me from the beginning. In Open 685 I had Titus claim a guilty on me. I really don't have an issue being pushed in the sense that you think.
If you were doing it in a way that didn't feel SvS to me I wouldn't have objected to it. And for the record scum being the only person pushing on someone who is generally townread is a huge scum v scum indicator.

I have no problem in someone changing the night actions. Except what you did was instead of doing a night action yourself, you changed the night action at the last moment and handed it out to me. This was solely done to safeguard your own interests in case you are investigated in the night instead of safeguarding interests of the team. Again, I have no problem if someone thinks this is the best thing to do as a team, but you did that sneakily, without consulting with any of the partners.

I'm part of the team, dude, and you were never going to be tracked. And yes, I wanted to safeguard the teams interest by keeping us alive, so I roleblocked a cop that would have otherwise tracked me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I'm not selfish. I'm pro-win. I play selfishly at times because I have the highest odds of winning the game but when I am not my team's highest odds of winning the game I don't play like that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like just an example: I was almost never making it through F2F mafia regardless of what I did because the group at kingsmeet never townread me. that's just facts.
So I was pushing on Summer and she was going to get lynched but I didn't think I would actually make it to endgame if I pushed her so I told her not to venge me if she was town in a really scummy way
I got lynched, Summer endgamed town and we won.

You're conflating me having more confidence in my own personal ability to win games the vast majority of the time, which is true, with me playing selfish because selfish.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I'm sort of used to people trusting me and taking me at my word in scum thread. I could definitely have been clearer about what I was thinking.

I acknowledge that I was a dick at the time because the stupidly townsided setup was stressing me the fuck out and I was having trouble seeing a path to victory from very early on that didn't rely on getting super lucky.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Alban gets lynched and flips town no one is copping navy, cops are on me. I trust kelvin.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Alban gets lynched and flips town no one is copping navy, cops are on me. I trust kelvin.

Yeah you see this thing about not working together, give me something.

if alban flips town then we are lynching navy.

a guilty on Navy says nothing about my alignment. an inno on me solves both slots.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and if you're copping me I get to call the shots.

which means, assuming Alban flips town, not lynching Navy until she's the last scum left. and probably lynching Math tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

So basically, you want to mislynch alban and call the shots? This is nothing more than a powerplay. Fuck off.

this is what you were trying to do but when you do it its totally fine right

No, Titus. You can make a decision whether you want me or Mathblade copped.

[RadiantCowbells]

Explain to me why you want Navy copped over myself?

[RadiantCowbells]

looooooooooooooool

so you want less information so that you can shut down my ability to get the people that I want lynched

[RadiantCowbells]

titus this doesn't mean shit. if I wanted mathblade to die they would die. if I want alban to die he will die. you can pull all this bullshit but in the end when I want someone dead they die.

I am refraining from launching a full blown deathtunnel on mathblade out of respect for you but if you're going to try to push extremely suboptimal checks that will leave me as a viable mislynch for no reason besides to attempt to marginalize me and my reads then I won't feel the need to make any effort whatsoever to work with you and I'll just go full blown divergent style bloodlust. got thatT?

[RadiantCowbells]

and given the profound, borderline offensive disrespect that you have shown me in this game I will have zero bad feelings about doing so whatsoever

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean it's true. Say what you want about me saying that like that but Titus trying to not have me confirmed so I can't push my reads as easily is gross.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi giggles!

I'm pretty sure your slot is town since it was my slot's day 1 save and it feels like the most likely kill.

I believe there's 1 scum in {Navy/Alban} then 2 in the remainder of the cops, with one very likely being Mathblade

[RadiantCowbells]

ok catching up

[RadiantCowbells]

cops are not investigating in doc claims while there are any scum remaining in cops.

if anyone claims any result on any doc claims I will vote them and not unvote until they die

[RadiantCowbells]

cops are not investigating in doc claims while there are any scum remaining in cops.

if anyone claims any result on any doc claims I will vote them and not unvote until they die

make this totally understood

if you are town cop and you check in the docs you are getting policy lynched.
if you are town and push this reasoning you are enabling scum to win the game when they have no chance of winning if we do this properly

[RadiantCowbells]

no titus is being fucking idiotic and I bluntly don't give a shit about her opinion. i'm not going to let her throw the game because she can't keep her ego in check.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Mathblade

any cops that check in docs are getting lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Mathblade

any cops that check in docs are getting lynched.

This post freaks me that RC is freaking out because it's him Math Vedith and clearing cops wrecks him. He was pulling a hard bus.

I thought math was scum

[RadiantCowbells]

no I will actually just refuse to unvote any cops who claim a cop in the doctors. cry about game throwing if you want but titus has no idea how to do strategy and she doesn't get to whine until she gets her way

[RadiantCowbells]

Town Math

Vedith investigates Kelvin
Giga investigates Alban
Gamma investigates Navy
Paul investigates Raybells

Scum Math

Giga investigates Vedith
Gamma investigates Navy
Paul investigates alban
Vedith investigates me (bring it)

This is the plan. Unless RC can articulate what the holes are, we're doing this. That was the deal.

paul can keep their investigate
i'm fine with one investigate on one doc since it's coming from conftown

but gamma checks a cop and vedith checks a cop

[RadiantCowbells]

Town Math

Vedith investigates Kelvin
Giga investigates Alban
Gamma investigates Navy
Paul investigates Raybells

Scum Math

Giga investigates Vedith
Gamma investigates Navy
Paul investigates alban
Vedith investigates me (bring it)

This is the plan. Unless RC can articulate what the holes are, we're doing this. That was the deal.

paul can keep their investigate
i'm fine with one investigate on one doc since it's coming from conftown

but gamma checks a cop and vedith checks a cop

We are finding the doctor scum with the cops. No diversions. I would be amenable if you talked about things, but you didn't. Cops check according to plan.

sorry but I'm throwing up blood and I have no patience for your shit right now

[RadiantCowbells]

are you fucking kidding me guys?

[RadiantCowbells]

because cop results are worthless until we know the alignment that they come from.

you get a bunch of checks in the cop circle and that half of the game will be instasolved

[RadiantCowbells]

there's literally 2 candidates for scum in the docs: alban and navy

i am fine with 1 cop coming from someone I think is town like GBT on one of {alban, navy} if they are the doc priority

[RadiantCowbells]

Thoughts on my plan of establishing a chain of cops checking cops I gave earlier

yes this was the correct play

[RadiantCowbells]

oh man you think i'm going to work with you after you waste a cop on me?