Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Chip Butty, any reason you use ten posts for what you could say in one?
Feels like you want to be 'seen' as being super active. Also makes the game a bit messy to read imo
You vote Grapes for posting stuff that 'looks useful to Town but isn't', but how useful is a vote against someone followed by a disclaimer that you're not convinced they're scum?In post 72, IceGuy wrote:
You made a list of people you consider town/null/scum. This list included people who've posted three words and people that aren't in the game. You posted things that look like they're useful to town, but aren't.In post 41, grapes wrote: Not to literal you to death but at this point I don't have a read on anyone based on three words.
But I mean different strokes for different blokes; I don't enjoy sitting around until some arbitrary word count to happen on page 3 in order to stop censoring myself so that people don't immediately discredit me based on playstyle for giving thoughts as they come to me.
I also really don't like the way how you vote everybody who attacks you.
VOTE: grapes
On the other hand, I'm not completely convinced that grapes is scum; I have this nagging feeling scum is sitting amongst the lurkers and laughing at how we're attacking ourselves.
Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.
I think it goes without saying you 'won't be convinced' at this early stage, but surely putting that in directly after your vote takes remove the pressurizing effect it may have had on the player, which is surely half the point of any vote at this stage of the game?
Also, what is the reason behind your Alchemist Townread?-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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It's not a question of 'lying about reads', it's a question of the purpose of the vote.
You just voted Grapes for trying to look useful when not actually being useful, but I'm questioning what the use of your vote is when you undermine it with your very next sentence?
And why did you ignore my question about your Alchemist Townread?-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.
First of all, his start:
Votes Alch with a seemingly non RVS vote, but then doesn't follow up on it at all. Alch soon becomes IceGuy's biggest townread for being "right and earnest about grapes' behavior", which seems a bit weak for a solid early Townread, considering Alch had posted the only other thing IceGuy has disliked in this game so far.In post 16, IceGuy wrote:
I don't like this.In post 13, Alchemist21 wrote: If I ever do roll scum in a game with you I'll have to make sure to pay you back for Micro 725.
VOTE: Alchemist21
His vote:
As I mentioned before, a bit hypocritical that he votes someone for trying to look useful without being so, and then making a pretty pointless vote of his own when it's followed by "I'm not completely convinced he's scum" - what is the point of such a non-committal vote? He wants to be seen as doing something, but he has zero conviction behind it, which leads to his unvote:In post 72, IceGuy wrote:
You made a list of people you consider town/null/scum. This list included people who've posted three words and people that aren't in the game. You posted things that look like they're useful to town, but aren't.In post 41, grapes wrote: Not to literal you to death but at this point I don't have a read on anyone based on three words.
But I mean different strokes for different blokes; I don't enjoy sitting around until some arbitrary word count to happen on page 3 in order to stop censoring myself so that people don't immediately discredit me based on playstyle for giving thoughts as they come to me.
I also really don't like the way how you vote everybody who attacks you.
VOTE: grapes
On the other hand, I'm not completely convinced that grapes is scum; I have this nagging feeling scum is sitting amongst the lurkers and laughing at how we're attacking ourselves.
Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.
So basically IceGuy has coasted the opening of this game entirely on Grapes' back, accusing him of trying to look useful but not being so, when this is exactly what IceGuy has been doing himself.In post 122, IceGuy wrote:UNVOTE:
Scum would be laying low right now, not doing what grapes is doing. While I don't agree with what grapes is saying and I consider a player who thinks they can solve the game on page 2 a show-off, it does not indicate alignment.
Also, this post:
Seems pretty ridiculous reasoning to me; feels like he's trying to provoke a scum read that wasn't there.In post 98, IceGuy wrote:You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: IceGuy-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Grapes is leaning Town for me.In post 135, Realeo wrote:Luca BlightI noticed that you attacked IceGuy for grapes but never talked about grapes. What's your position on grapes?
The only problem I had with him so far was his 'easy' reads, but I'm willing to accept his explanation for now that it's a playstyle of his. I've played with other players who have played similarly (basing reads off of very little content) who have turned out to be Town, so it's not something in of itself that I'm going to call particularly scummy.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Because a) I've seen it as a playstyle for others, so I'm aware this is how some people play and b) His explanation seemed genuine enough in post 41 and in reply to IceGuy in 116, and I like other things such as his consistent activity, as well as his interaction with Realeo in posts 57 and 116 and c) because I find asking for self-meta to be kinda pointless - if he's so aware of his own meta then it's devalued anyway, and if he's scum then again, why would willingly do Town's work for him? I'm not one to willingly supply self-meta myself regardless of alignment, so it would be a bit hypocritical of me to ask such a question.In post 137, Chip Butty wrote:@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?
@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grapes's account of his style without asking him what I have just asked him?
Uh, no. I've seen you coasting on the back of Grapes the whole game so far and have done little else.In post 139, IceGuy wrote:
So basically, you've decided that you want to start a wagon on me, and then tried to find reasons for it.In post 133, Luca Blight wrote:I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.
Are you really just going to dismiss my entire post like that?
Now you have unvoted Grapes, who is your biggest scum read?
Considering he has done nothing else in this game though, wouldn't you agree it seems like he's trying to 'look useful without being so' which is exactly what he actually sumread Grapes for in the first place?In post 140, Alchemist21 wrote:I don't see the case Luca's making about Ice. I see it as Town who's not looking to confbias and tunnel, and him stating what's making him less confident in the read seems like it's a more honest vote than one that's pushing an agenda.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Why are you 'comfy' with Alch, and why aren't you 'comfy' with ChipButty and I?In post 157, Realeo wrote:
I'm starting to worry that I am townreading people too quickly and not having enough scumread.In post 141, Alchemist21 wrote:Realeo what are you current reads?
I am comfy with Alchemist and grapes.
I am not comfy with ChipButty, IceGuy, and Luca, but it's not exactly "I'm not comfortable with you so you're my scumread" but more to "I'm not comfortable with you so you are under my radar."
And is that to say that you townread Grapes and Alch?
Regarding the 'provoke a scumread' - I'm trying to understand the thought-process behind IceGuy's comment in 98.
This isn't necessarily scummy in itself as 'provoking' reads is something done by Town as well, but it's the reasoning behind it that caught me as a bit strange.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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So does this mean you are townreading IceGuy?In post 168, Alchemist21 wrote:
Not really. He saw an issue with grapes (and wasn't the only one) and acted on it. He's showing thoughts in a clear, concise manner that's making it possible for others to get a read on him, which is useful.In post 164, Luca Blight wrote:Considering he has done nothing else in this game though, wouldn't you agree it seems like he's trying to 'look useful without being so' which is exactly what he actually sumread Grapes for in the first place?
And since you unvoted Grapes, do you have any scumreads?-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Anyone have any thoughts on IceGuy's reaction to my vote:
He quotes a tiny segment of my post and replies with a generic statement that could used in reply to any vote ever, before melting away into the background again.In post 139, IceGuy wrote:
So basically, you've decided that you want to start a wagon on me, and then tried to find reasons for it.In post 133, Luca Blight wrote:I really don't like Iceguy's start, his vote for Grapes or his subsequent unvote.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Either you're deliberately misrepping me or you're not reading properly. My vote on you, primarily, was for doing yourself what you scumread Grapes for (looking useful without being so) and that was compounded by your pointless vote and unvote which achieved literally nothing. Hopefully I won't have to repeat myself again on this.In post 248, IceGuy wrote:
Yes, because you're saying that I'm scum based on things like that I'm unsure with my reads (on page 3 of all places), or that my reads change.In post 164, Luca Blight wrote:Are you really just going to dismiss my entire post like that?
I don't like the reasons for this vote or the position he is conveying either - he's focusing on the lurkers who are the easy targets for the lynch. He doesn't care which of them is lynched and has made it clear he will switch to any of them if a wagon forms. Basically this just looks opportunistic to me.In post 248, IceGuy wrote:
The whole peanut gallery of lurkers. ironstove, Assemblerotws, Duckworth/Riddleton. I'm not going to rank them because they're equally useless. UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing. Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.Now you have unvoted Grapes, who is your biggest scum read?
And yet ChipButty isn't someone you're considering for the lynch (based on your quote above)? You have genuine reasons to vote ChipButty so why just pick on the lurkers instead?
You said earlier that I had decided to start a wagon on you and was trying to find reasons - that implies a scum read to me, or do you think Town would have similar motivation?In post 248, IceGuy wrote:
I'm not voting Luca. I don't consider him particularly scummy.In post 183, Realeo wrote: I'm waiting for his vote to see if he actually meant it. Given how he read my post, I can no longer predict the sentiment of his text.-
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In post 2, PMysterious wrote:
Day 1 has officially begun! The that this day will end is September 31, 2017, at 10:00 A.M. Central Time.@Mod- just to point out, September 31 doesn't exist.
You ruined the illusion!Last edited by PMysterious on Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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If I have a clear scumread then I will pursue that lynch until it's not longer reasonably possible, and only then look at compromising. What you're doing is just lining up a few easy targets to wagon at will and, as I said, it seems opportunistic to me.In post 287, IceGuy wrote:
Do you always get your #1 scumread lynched? Don't you see the point in compromising?In post 257, Luca Blight wrote: I don't like the reasons for this vote or the position he is conveying either - he's focusing on the lurkers who are the easy targets for the lynch. He doesn't care which of them is lynched and has made it clear he will switch to any of them if a wagon forms. Basically this just looks opportunistic to me.
I'm in no way defending the lurkers - I am questioning the motivation behind your current stance, that a lynch of any lurker will do. It's such an easy path of no resistance to go down, and it doesn't sit right with me. There would be no issue if you had at least attempted to interact with the lurkers and draw reads out of them, but to just brand them all 'useless' and say any of them can be lynched is at best anti-town, and at worst a very scummy thing to do.In post 287, IceGuy wrote: A bad justification is not necessarily a scummy justification. Also, why are you so intent on defending the lurkers who have literally contributed nothing to the game?
As above: Town does bad things.You said earlier that I had decided to start a wagon on you and was trying to find reasons - that implies a scum read to me, or do you think Town would have similar motivation?-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Misrep? you're really stretching the term there. I'm aware the first name had the same value as the third, I was just stating it as a literal fact.In post 308, IceGuy wrote:
Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".In post 304, Luca Blight wrote: I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.
Also, you do not seem to get the distinction between "X does things I disagree with" and "X is scum". Should I explain it again, perhaps more slowly?
I get the distinction, but it still surprises me how someone who has done nothing (that you have noted) positive and only negative things in your eyes is a TownRead of yours.-
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Spoiler:
1) There's a difference in motivation behind someone who accepts compromise as a last resort and someone who is lining up the wagons of several different town members with 5 days until deadline.
2) There have been 'lurkers' who have popped in and out of the thread that you could have challenged if you genuinely wanted to get a read off of them. I think the key word here is 'try' - if you did this and had no success then I'd be a bit more sympathetic to your view on the lurkers.
3) Seriously, I'm not going to justify saying ChipButty was first on your Townie list when he was first on your Townie list. If you want to get sensitive over that then that's your prerogative but it feels a bit like you're deflecting away from the other issues.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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That's irrelevant as it neither applies to you nor me so far.In post 323, IceGuy wrote:
If you have a #1 scumread and a #2 scumread who is close in scummyness, and there is a wagon on #2 but not on #1, what would you do?In post 317, Luca Blight wrote: 1) There's a difference in motivation behind someone who accepts compromise as a last resort and someone who is lining up the wagons of several different town members with 5 days until deadline.
You've stated you're willing to compromise on lynching players who currently have zero votes.
Why shouldn't I mention it in my post? It's factual, and I'm not going to waste my time justifying it to you.In post 323, IceGuy wrote: Don't squirrel away. Why did you specifically mention it in your post?
Honest, constructive posts mostly. Not particularly long, but straight to the point and devoid of fluff.In post 318, Luca Blight wrote:And while you're at it, IceGuy, would you care to explain that Townread of ChipButty?
And you're reasoning for townreading ChipButty seems very generic. I would appreciate some examples of the 'constructive' posts, and can you define 'fluff' in this case?-
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@ChipButty- These are the only times IceGuy mentioned you before he posted his reads list.
In post 72, IceGuy wrote:
Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.
As you can see, there is nothing there to indicate a Town read, and the middle quote is clearly negative.In post 191, Chip Butty wrote: 3. Cruising. Yes I've been cruising, because this game has been developing very slowly and boringly and i have two others i am way more engaged with.
In post 247, IceGuy wrote: I have a question. Why do you consider this game boring?-
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The post of mine you quoted (304) was made before his explanation.In post 361, Chip Butty wrote:
As he explained later, he was saying badtown, not scummy.In post 355, Luca Blight wrote:@ChipButty- These are the only times IceGuy mentioned you before he posted his reads list.
In post 72, IceGuy wrote:
Alchemist is town. Realeo is probably town, at least I don't think he's bussing. Everybody else - that includes Chip Butty - needs to post non-RVS posts.
As you can see, there is nothing there to indicate a Town read, and the middle quote is clearly negative.In post 191, Chip Butty wrote: 3. Cruising. Yes I've been cruising, because this game has been developing very slowly and boringly and i have two others i am way more engaged with.
In post 247, IceGuy wrote: I have a question. Why do you consider this game boring?
Not that I'm too trusting of that explanation at this point - if he thought it was 'bad town' he should have said so in 247 - not doing so implied a scum read, if anything.-
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In post 365, Chip Butty wrote:@Luca: I'm not too trusting of that explanation either, but your reason for doubting it seens thin / reachy.
How so?-
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In post 367, Chip Butty wrote:
For example, he might have thought that by calling my vote bad rather than scummy, he thought he would be understood as saying badtown. If he has a history of using 'bad' and 'scummy' interchangeably, then this explanation doesn't work though.In post 366, Luca Blight wrote:In post 365, Chip Butty wrote:@Luca: I'm not too trusting of that explanation either, but your reason for doubting it seens thin / reachy.
How so?
The way I see it, why bother commenting on it if he's not reading it as scummy? If he's reading it as bad Town then fair enough, but make that clear. I think any reasonable player reading that would assume he's marking it as scummy based on wording.
It just seems to me like he's thrown that in there for the sake of content, and then backtracked a bit that 'bad' actually meant 'bad town' when called out on it.
It doesn't feel genuine to me, but if you think that's 'reachy' then that's your call.-
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In post 375, IceGuy wrote:
As I said, you're squirreling away. This is not town behavior. In Mafia, you don't just state a fact.In post 337, Luca Blight wrote:
Why shouldn't I mention it in my post? It's factual, and I'm not going to waste my time justifying it to you.
I must say, I find this hilarious. I knew you'd be itching to find a way to change your read about me at some point as a defensive measure, but who knew your reasoning would be so laughable?In post 375, IceGuy wrote:
Luca Blight- Changed my read because of his refusal to answer a simple question. In #304, he says Chip is "first name on [my] Townie list". In #308, I tell him that the order in the list has no significance, in #312 he says he was aware of it. Yet, he repeatedly claims that he "just posted a fact" and refuses to say why he posted it (#317, #337).Leaning scum, will probably vote if wagon forms
You've changed me from a Town-lean to a Scum-lean for one sole reason; because I said ChipButty was 'first one your townie list', and guess what?
He was first name on his Townie list. Now, if he was actually second or third name on his townie list and I was claiming he was first then fair enough I guess, but he literally is first name on the Townie list. As I later said, that doesn't mean his value is necessarily different on said list to Alch or Realeo, but nonetheless my statement holds true - you were the one trying to give it a deeper meaning that wasn't there.In post 290, IceGuy wrote: Read list:
Town:Chip Butty/Alchemist/Realeo
Leaning town: Luca/CK/grapes
Neutral: Mulch/GNB
Leaning scum: ironstove/Duckworth
Scum: Assemble/UnaBombaH
He also says it's not Townie to not explain it - why would I explain such a non-issue to someone I strongly believe is scum trying to deflect away from my case against him? And guess what, now he is scumreading me for this trivial issue, so even though I didn't entertain his wish for an explanation, he managed to deflect anyway.
He earlier accused me of 'trying to find reasons to wagon him', but clearly he's now trying to find reasons to a) scumread me back and b) line up a wagon on me.
I still plan to make a comprehensive reads list when I have time, but I'll be hard-pressed to budge off my current vote as things stand.-
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You've seen what done by both alignments?In post 386, Realeo wrote:
I have seen it done by both alignment, frankly.In post 385, Luca Blight wrote:Realeo, what are your thoughts on IceGuy's read-change of me that I highlighted above?
Do you believe it's a genuine/credible reason to justify a change from town-lean to scum-lean?
I just wish that you choose other IceGuy's read beside ChipButty. At this point, it maybe done no justice. Personally, I'm interested at his DuckWorth's read but waiting for you to end the assault before I quiz him.
My point regarding his ChipButty read is just one of many reasons for me suspecting IceGuy, but he subsequently looked scummier with his deflecting onto the trivial issue of what order ChipButty was in his Townie list, which was never of significance for me.
It's like he wanted to scum read me back and that's the only thing he could find, so he ran with it.-
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As I said in post 312 I recognise that his ChipButty read is not necessarily different from his other 'top-tier' reads - the whole thing is a non-issue and the only one focusing on it, if you care to read back, is IceGuy.In post 389, Alchemist21 wrote:@Luca, I'm not really getting your push here. It seems like your original issue was that Ice moved Chip into his Townreads when he hadn't said anything positive about him, but since then you keep pointing out that Chip was listed first. Ice has stated the order wasn't indicative of the strength of those reads, and I'm not getting why you keep pressing the issue of the order of his Townreads over the fact that Chip is even a Townread to him at all.
You're right that my original issue was that ChipButty was there in the first place, but the fact IceGuy is trying to deflect onto the irrelevant issue of me saying CB was first on the list, which as I said countless times was just a factual remark, and has used that trivial issue as a reason to change his scumread on me from town-lean to scum-lean (which is the most reachy thing I have seen in this thread) gives me even more reason to suspect him.-
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As you can see from the quotes below, Iceguy is the one who is continuing the issue and won't let it go, whereas I am the one trying to move on from it.In post 392, Alchemist21 wrote: It still feels like you're the one keeping the order an issue though.
In post 308, IceGuy wrote:
Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".In post 304, Luca Blight wrote: I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.In post 314, IceGuy wrote:
If you were stating it just as a literal fact, why didn't you leave it off? The fact is readily apparent in my post, so there's no need to repeat it - unless you're trying to draw attention to it, which you deny.In post 312, Luca Blight wrote:
Misrep? you're really stretching the term there. I'm aware the first name had the same value as the third, I was just stating it as a literal fact.In post 308, IceGuy wrote:
Nice misrep. The names aren't ordered, "first place on Townie list" is the same as "third place on Townie list".In post 304, Luca Blight wrote: I've only seen him say negative things about him so far, yet suddenly he's first name on his Townie list.
Also, you do not seem to get the distinction between "X does things I disagree with" and "X is scum". Should I explain it again, perhaps more slowly?In post 323, IceGuy wrote:
Don't squirrel away. Why did you specifically mention it in your post?3) Seriously, I'm not going to justify saying ChipButty was first on your Townie list when he was first on your Townie list. If you want to get sensitive over that then that's your prerogative but it feels a bit like you're deflecting away from the other issues.In post 308, IceGuy wrote:
As I said, you're squirreling away. This is not town behavior. In Mafia, you don't just state a fact.Why shouldn't I mention it in my post? It's factual, and I'm not going to waste my time justifying it to you.
Luca Blight- Changed my read because of his refusal to answer a simple question. In #304, he says Chip is "first name on [my] Townie list". In #308, I tell him that the order in the list has no significance, in #312 he says he was aware of it. Yet, he repeatedly claims that he "just posted a fact" and refuses to say why he posted it (#317, #337).Leaning scum, will probably vote if wagon forms@ Alch- basically you have IceGuy as a Town-lean, yet he has been the one focusing on the ordering, which is the thing you have me as a scum-lean for.-
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I was planning to make a reads list but I'm now thinking there's little point - due to the amount of 'lurkers' in this game most of us seem to be on the same page, barring one or two.
The way I see it is something like this:
Not lynching today:
Realeo
Chip Butty
GameNBurger
Mulch
Alchemist21
grapes
CommKnight
Possible lynches:
Assemblerotws
ironstove
IceGuy
Duckworth
UnaBombaH
Now that's not to say I think the top list is Townie and bottom scummy, but just what seems viable and not viable between now and deadline.
If I had to order it in terms of preference I'd probably go for something like:
Lynch
IceGuy
Duckworth
Assemble
Iron
Una
Don't lynch-
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....In post 427, IceGuy wrote:In post 426, Luca Blight wrote:Possible lynches:
Assemblerotws
ironstove
IceGuy
Duckworth
UnaBombaH
Presented without comment.In post 257, Luca Blight wrote:
I don't like the reasons for this vote or the position he is conveying either - he's focusing on the lurkers who are the easy targets for the lynch. He doesn't care which of them is lynched and has made it clear he will switch to any of them if a wagon forms. Basically this just looks opportunistic to me.In post 248, IceGuy wrote: The whole peanut gallery of lurkers. ironstove, Assemblerotws, Duckworth/Riddleton. I'm not going to rank them because they're equally useless. UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing. Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.
In post 426, Luca Blight wrote:
Now that's not to say I think the top list is Townie and bottom scummy, but just what seems viable and not viable between now and deadline.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Weak reasoning for a case on page 6?
We'll have to disagree on that.
Yes, you are missing the context. That was in reply to this question:In post 458, Mulch wrote:In post 164, Luca Blight wrote:c) because I find asking for self-meta to be kinda pointless - if he's so aware of his own meta then it's devalued anyway, and if he's scum then again, why would willingly do Town's work for him? I'm not one to willingly supply self-meta myself regardless of alignment, so it would be a bit hypocritical of me to ask such a question.@Luca: I think I'm probably missing context for this, but why is this a reason to townread him and what exactly did he do regarding self meta?
In post 137, Chip Butty wrote:@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?
@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grapes's account of his style without asking him what I have just asked him?
How isIn post 461, Mulch wrote:
What reasoning? It was a fact...In post 165, Luca Blight wrote:but it's the reasoning behind it that caught me as a bit strange."You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now"a fact?
It's an incorrect interpretation
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What don't you like, apart from 133?In post 465, Mulch wrote:I will give Luca a scum lean. I don't like some of his earlier posts-
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You were asking why I was Townreading Grapes because of point C in post 164, but I wasn't townreading him for that - that was in reply to CB's question in 137 as to why I accepted Grapes' explanation of his playstyle.In post 474, Mulch wrote:
I can't understand... can you explain it better?In post 472, Luca Blight wrote:]
Yes, you are missing the context. That was in reply to this question:In post 458, Mulch wrote:In post 164, Luca Blight wrote:c) because I find asking for self-meta to be kinda pointless - if he's so aware of his own meta then it's devalued anyway, and if he's scum then again, why would willingly do Town's work for him? I'm not one to willingly supply self-meta myself regardless of alignment, so it would be a bit hypocritical of me to ask such a question.@Luca: I think I'm probably missing context for this, but why is this a reason to townread him and what exactly did he do regarding self meta?
In post 137, Chip Butty wrote:@Grapes: sorry if I've missed this in your gargantuan posts, but can you please link us to a game where you were town and played in a similar style?
@Luca: Speaking of easy, how come you have accepted Grape
But that isn't what retracting a Town lean is, as Realeo demonstrated - he didn't scumread CK after he 'retracted' his Town read - he returned to being ''null' as Realeo said in 101.In post 475, Mulch wrote:
He isn't putting his opinion on anything, he's just reiterating what retracting a town lean isIn post 472, Luca Blight wrote:How is "You said you want to retract your town lean, that implies you think he's scum now" a fact?
It's an incorrect interpretation-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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I personally think any meta has to be taken with a pinch of salt - it's the first thing scum will take into account.
I want to lynch IceGuy, but I'm beginning to think it's not going to happen today.In post 498, Realeo wrote:
You want to lynch ironstove?In post 495, Luca Blight wrote:Any reason you prefer an Assemble lynch to any of the other lurkers, Realeo?
As for Ironstove, I really dislike the way he has played, regardless of alignment. But I'm just wondering how you can particularly separate him, or Assemble, from the other lurkers?
It feels like just taking a stab in the dark, which obviously suits scum more as they're not the ones in the dark.-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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So you're asking me who is IceGuy's scum partner?In post 506, Realeo wrote:Ok, I would give you a pass then.
Would you still participate in the thought experiment, please? Think this as a way to persuade me to vote IceGuy.
That's a question for another day. There are too many 'unreadables' in this game at the moment to make a serious attempt at naming a scumteam.-
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This is why I always take meta with a pinch of salt.In post 527, Chip Butty wrote:But what i am thinking is maybe it is a consciously designed meta so when you are scum you can post walls and people go oh that's just Realeo Realeoing...
If Realeo posts tons of walls every time he is Town, is he really going to get by posting the occasional one-liner as scum?
If someone like Una usually posts a lot of fluff and jokes as Town, are they suddenly gonna get super serious as scum?
Not only would it stick out like a sore thumb, but they are also going to be more used to their 'natural' style, regardless of alignment.-
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Have you heard the saying 'In post 534, Realeo wrote:I have pwned someone purely on meta, to be fair. His meta is that if he is scum, he posts Xp more often.a broken clock is right twice a day'.
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Luca Blight Survivor
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Brilliant reasoning.In post 596, CommKnight wrote:Aside from Realeo the wagon on Ice Guy is filled with non-townie players. So I'm going to stick to my guns and stay on Una. Obviously they're trying to divert away from Una.-
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Not sure how IceGuy is any 'easier' a target than Una to be honest?In post 598, CommKnight wrote:I know right? It's almost like I'm not willing to wagon onto someone that most of my neutral/scumleans are voting. It's like damn man. I better back up and reconsider how I read everyone else voting an easy target.
Ice Guy is an easy lynch, almost too damn easy. There's been resistance against Una though and I suspect we'd get more from lynching Una than Ice.
There's also been resistance to an IceGuy lynch - I've been pushing it most of the day and have had little support until recently.-
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Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'? Obviously scum are less likely to directly defend their partner, which could link them together upon the flip.In post 599, Realeo wrote:Speaking of this.
I think the rate is quite high, if your definition of TvT is either {Town v Town} or {Town v Traitor} Given the lack of resistance of the fos between these two people, if I have to assume at least one of them is anti-town, I think it's more likely to be traitor than mafia (or I would be expecting more people defending Una or IceGuy than just me) so my compromise vote is basically me asking my self "Which one is more likely to be a traitor?"Chip Butty wrote:Mulch, what do you rate the chances of Una-Ice being TvT?
And, as has been mentioned, mafia also had the option of recruiting the Traitor, so the scenario you mentioned seems unlikely.-
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You would have to be naive to assume Scum will always townread their teammates.In post 604, Realeo wrote:
When most of the people are lynching one because "one is scummier than other" instead of "I lynch him because I townread the other," not really.In post 603, Luca Blight wrote:Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'?-
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Luca Blight Survivor
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You're just making this up - I have done the exact opposite of this.In post 613, IceGuy wrote:
Other people (such as Luca) have done the same thing and you sort them firmly into the "town" category. Why am I scum for it, and Luca is town for the same thing?In post 608, UnaBombaH wrote:Not fully committing to a strong scumread.
That is what I meant: he says he is willing to vote any of the lurkers, so he has an easy escape if anyone scumreads him, for voting me.-
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This is literally the best thing you've said all game.In post 685, ironstove wrote:I have a feeling many of you don't understand how much work goes into my process of picking the perfect watermelon when I am shopping at the supermarket.